Advice Welcome, separating and W moving out soon..

[jedi]

Scratch the last post. Just as the the 48 hour NC mark was approaching, W initiated and we had a relatively lengthy txt convo about the move this Friday. She basically said "Its not that I dont want you there, but I think to not cause you any more pain it's best that I do this alone".

I agreed with her stance, and told her I'd leave the house so she could do her thing. She said I didn't have to leave, that I could just go out back or something, but I told her I would have a hard time not helping if I was in the house. I then followed up with I know she is capable of doing this on her own and that i was trying hard to stop pushing my help towards her when I know full well she has it under control. While that's a 180 (not trying to help or fix something for a change), I dont like that i had to spell it out like that. Show, not talk about changes right? Or, maybe given my specific situation, that is the best way right now to show I'm growing cognizant of what i need to work on changing. Who knows...

Either way, the reminder of the convo was light-hearted, and I did ask for some pointers from her in regards to how her IC came about and just the basic process she went through. She seems happy with hers, and for some reason my initial look into it today left me feeling unsatisfied. She said she was happy to discuss this with me, and mentioned over lunch perhaps. As an added bonus, she ended with 'goodnight'. This is a first since BD, so I think it's a small win.

Funny, while this again could be considered a 180 for me (asking for her help/opinion), I'm finding myself to genuinely value her input on this. She can enlighten me here, and it feels good to think I'm breaking my own walls down since that's the end goal of this right? Better myself no matter what happens?

The problem here is this all makes me fall back into my standard feelings of this being temporary. I really need to learn to detach, but it's hard when I see what I think are positive signs knowing others are just seeing cake eating and such that I'm blinded to.

I'm sure next week once she's fully moved out and we go days without contact I'll be eating my words here.

[Fogg]

Show, not talk about changes right?

The problem here is this all makes me fall back into my standard feelings of this being temporary.

I really need to learn to detach, but it's hard when I see what I think are positive signs knowing others are just seeing cake eating and such that I'm blinded to.

Yes, show don't talk . Anytime you try and tell the WAS what your changing all they hear is that your changing to keep them around. The changes have to be for yourself to show any real sign that its permanent. If your just doing it for her they wont be.

All those expectations of things getting better, its going to cause you some real issues as time goes by. Why shes talkative to you could be for 100 difference reasons, trying to figure it out wont help you.

You cant think your way out of detaching all the time. Your over analyzing everything at this point so the only way to get her out of your mind is to replace those thoughts with something else. GAL and keep yourself occupied so your thinking of something else.

[Zues126]

First off, I'm glad you got a DB coach. You're right, the first session might be 'orientation'. I'd encourage you to set up your next call for pretty soon. That said, you should be getting help right away. I tell my coach what I want. For example, say "I'd like to have a good strategy to guide how I respond to her contact for the first few weeks after she moves out". You can tell them you're open to following their lead, but that you'd like 10-15 minutes to specifically aim at that area. My coach is very good about helping me where I want it, while still giving me feedback and guidance where she feels I need it.

As for showing vs. telling, I always thing of poker. When you are watching players to try to figure out what they have, there is a general rule: "If they think you're watching, whatever they're trying to communicate is a lie. If they don't know you're watching, it's the truth." So if they know you're watching and they act disinterested, that is a sign of strength. But if they subconsciously lean back in their chair, that might be a sign of weakness. The same way, your WAS will only be impressed with the stuff that she doesn't think you know she noticed. And anything you try to show her that she knows is designed for her she will dismiss.

I know this has been going on for a while, but I do think after she moves out it will mark a big milestone in your DBing. It will be the start of you really working on you. I think it's totally normal to focus on your interactions with her for the next few days. I hope come this weekend you can start working through your emotions, your growth, and your detachment in new ways. I know that doesn't sound like the goal, but it's all moving the right direction.

Glad you're posting a lot. Good things will come from it. Indubitably.

[jedi]

Fogg, Zues, thanks for chiming in.

I wholeheartedly agree that once she’s moved out I will enter a new phase in this process.

I think I'm starting to grasp these things like she's leaving so details of how that happens logistically aren't my problem, or that I'm not here to be her friend while she leaves me behind. But what I don’t get is how to stop caring and WANTING to be that way. She was, after all, wife second to being my best friend, and I can’t necessarily fault her right now for what she’s doing. I'm finding I don't miss my W so much as I miss my friend.

I think this is a timing thing for me at this point. I hear you both, I just don’t feel it yet. I wish i did, but I’m just not there yet.

My DB coach asked me today ‘is she leaning towards you or away from you?’. Right now she’s still moving out, so she’s definitely leaning away from me. However, IMO she doesn’t seem to be leaning as far away right now as she was 5 weeks ago.

It seems to me that if I were further along into DB’ing that leaning less away from me than she was previously could be considered a positive sign, but since I’m only a 6 weeks into BD that’s not supposed to have any meaning for me right now. And this is where I get very confused and is also most likely why i am painting the picture of this the way I am.

I understand to some degree how a small positive should not be given at lot of weight right now (how’s it go, believe nothing they say and 50% what they do?). Let's say I truly begin practicing this concept right this minute. What I have yet to comprehend is at what point does what they say and what they do become allowed to be taken in fully and believed as true emotion? Once I start believing nothing they say, how do I decide to again believe them?

I hope my posts don’t come off as obtuse or argumentative in any way, as I don’t mean to at all. I truly appreciate what is being posted back to me as it helps me feel less alone throughout all of this, and I know I have things to learn while I’m here. I trust what is being said to me and I’m trying to wrap my head around these things, it’s just not clicking for me yet.

[Fogg]

What I have yet to comprehend is at what point does what they say and what they do become allowed to be taken in fully and believed as true emotion? Once I start believing nothing they say, how do I decide to again believe them?

At some point they MAY begin to make comments about wanting to work on the relationship. That's when you look at their actions and see if what they're saying goes along with what they're doing.

For instance, if there was an A and they said they wanted to make the M work, but wont break off contact with the AP, then its likely not real.

However, the time now isn't to focus and look for that happening. You would be gaining expectations and trying to look for those things happening. You are going to be so desperate to see those things happen you will almost make them up from nothing at all.

You need to focus on yourself and try to start making changes that better your life.

[jedi]

However, the time now isn't to focus and look for that happening. You would be gaining expectations and trying to look for those things happening. You are going to be so desperate to see those things happen you will almost make them up from nothing at all.

This is starting to make sense to me now. Over lunch today I was discussing some recent interactions with my W and the situation overall and with a friend who also more or less said the same thing. I'm starting to finally see where I am in this whole process.

I keep going to back to timing here keeping me from realizing this stuff. W asked tonight about a few things she wanted to take when she moves out, and while amicable I felt the anger start to swell in the background.

I thought I was already to the point of acceptance here, but I'm thinking now it's more like I rapidly cycled through the 5 stages over a period of weeks immediately after BD, and now I'm starting over on a much slower path through these.

[jedi]

Journaling:

While I'd previously removed from my walls and shelves the major reminders of our M (photos, wedding gifts, etc), I realized today there were many small items just hanging out. Toothbrush, shower supplies, nicknacks, etc. things she specifically has chosen not to pack up previously for whatever reason. I've started the purge.

Once she is out tomorrow I plan to spend part of my weekend packing up anything left that represents "us" and take it either to storage or my folks. I'm not ready to take it to a dumpster, but I do think having it all out of my home can do nothing but help propel me forward on my path to detachment.

I feel tomorrow will be bittersweet.

On a positive note, first IC session scheduled for next week. Nervous about it as its a new concept to me, but also excited for the potential for growth that it can hopefully provide.

[Zues126]

How you doing Jedi?

[jedi]

Hey Zues,

Thanks for checking in. Emotionally, I think overall OK. I was apprehensive all day once I left my house knowing W was coming to clear out, but once it was over that was kinda that. I had a fairly long moment of sadness, let it wash through me while in the car, and then moved on and continued to GAL as previously planned.

Being home now is surreal, and yet somehow also OK. It's weird, feels more empty than I expected, and yet all the same feels exactly like what it should feel like given the circumstances.

I guess more importantly than today's event is that I'm thinking all day about why I can't seem let go. I've already lost her, and yet my biggest fear is if I let go I'll lose her. I'm not sure yet how I feel about this.

So...as previously discussed, today was a turning point for me. How exactly is yet to be determined, but I definitely feel different than I did yesterday.

[jedi]

I've already lost her, and yet my biggest fear is if I let go I'll lose her. I'm not sure yet how I feel about this.

This is a lie. I know exactly how I feel about this, but I don't like it one bit. I'm starting to accept I cannot control anything but myself. I have to detach and let go in order to move myself forward.

Fighting the urge today to check in with W and see how the new place is, but doing that isn't going to get me anywhere. I guess she will reach out to me if she wants to share.

GAL is thankfully no issue this weekend. Weather is beautiful, and plenty planned to be outside enjoying it.