Advice Welcome, separating and W moving out soon..

[jedi]

This last post seems to be you trying to build a case that this isn't happening. She still has feelings for you, she doesn't know what she's doing, she's not talking D and splitting phone bills, she's been ok getting along with you and hasn't pulled away, etc. You seem to have made up your mind she's going through a phase and will miss you once she's had some time to realize you're not around for her, then she'll come back and it will all be better again.

I had not put words on this in my head, but you are 100 percent correct as I read this from an outside perspective.


I get denial. I get this is beyond your ability to wrap your head around. But at least reread your post and try to see what I see. Did your W feel you minimized her opinions, emotions, and needs during the R? Because what I see is her saying "Even though I love you I can't live my life without being heard", and you replying "hm, you seem upset for some reason? Separation? K. Go for a while and let me know when you've calmed down and are normal again"...


She didn't say it in these exact words, but has said when we would talk I could be condescending towards her, which guess is more or less the same thing. So yes, I'd say she very much feels as you outline above, and I see how I'm basically dealing with this as you've indicated.

I'm already thankful that I've began this thread, an outside unbiased opinion on this situation is exactly what I need.

[jedi]

Just to add to my last post, while I may have been (or still are) blinded to the gravity of this situation, I do not truly believe that once she's gone and maybe misses me that she can just say so, come back home, and that all will be normal again.

I don't believe we can return to the M that we had, and at this point we need to both grow into something new. Coming to this conclusion was a big step for me and has allowed me to stop wallowing about what I was losing and to start looking forward.

I'm inherently a 'fixer' kind of person. I would always have an opinion on how she could change something in her life for the better, but the problem lies in that I felt my option was the best. Looking back, it's almost certain that she felt I was constantly minimizing her emotions and needs. And seeing now that I am in fact looking at this as a "phase" (thanks to Zues), I'm apparently still minimizing her emotions. I believe she needs time and space to work through this, but I'm really just applying what I think she needs to the situation. If I'm honest, I have no idea what she truly needs right now. Space and time are logical conclusions, but they may be wholly incorrect.

How does one stop this? Am I too attached at this point to step away from my own feelings and truly see hers?

I have been working on being better when we've talked over the last 4-5 weeks, asking questions, listening, and trying to validate what SHE has decided to do about things without butting in with my opinion. STFU'ing is hard for me, but it's a baby step.

[Zues126]

You will be woken up at some point. I'm just not sure when, or what it will take. You may not notice, but you keep talking about time and space to "work through this".

Right now she is 'business as usual', with the big difference being lack of intimacy or future plans, and discussion of separation. This is probably to 'keep the peace' so you are cooperative with her plans, and to cake eat until she finds other ways to meet her needs. Big changes might be when she moves out, when she starts seeing other men, updates her status on social media, when she starts separating bills, hires an attorney, etc. And finally when she starts to create distance because she is meeting her needs elsewhere and wants to start moving on because she no longer needs you.

Even then it might not get through to you. Your write up above about 'growing into a new M' is a nice dream, and you're right that's what would have to happen. But you still seem to think that even as she does all of the above that's how it will play out.

Optimism is good by nature, but if the impact it has is that you feel complacent in a crisis, aren't bottomed out to the point of looking in the mirror like you never have before, or aren't detaching from the R and finding new ways to meet your needs by GALing like crazy...well, that could make your road more difficult.

I'd recommend being less available and focusing on GAL. Oh- and get a DB coach

[jedi]

Zues, thanks for the continued responses. I do appreciate that you are sticking with me on this.

I clearly have not detached at this point. And you are right, I keep saying what I do because at this point I honestly feel this way, that time will fix this. I'd thought by now I was further along in the grieving process, but given this I may just be starting and am in denial.

She will be officially, 100% out of this house as of Friday night. I will heed the advice to become less available, and perhaps the final touch of moving out will be my trigger. Or, perhaps not...

FWIW, both my sister and the wife of my best friend have already challenged me on this theme - why can she keep the good parts / friend part of me while walking away from the rest. For some reason this is hitting home with me logically, just not emotionally.

[jedi]

Journaling a bit -

Today was hard emotionally. I'm not sure if it's just one of those days, the fact that my front room is basically my W's life in boxes, or the fact that even with the packing going on overall we had good interaction yesterday. Maybe all 3. I went for a 40 min jog / walk and felt better afterwards.

Assuming NC remains, today will mark the first 24 hour period of absolutely no contact. I am not caving, but also know I will have some contact between now and Friday just due to logistics.

As for GAL...

My work is slow, so I don't have that distraction here. I finished my EMT course application and will be dropping that off tomorrow. I have plans to hang with a few friends Friday afternoon and will make plans for the long weekend later this week, even if I'm just going out on my own for some hiking or to try and catch the 500 on Sunday.

[Zues126]

"FWIW, both my sister and the wife of my best friend have already challenged me on this theme - why can she keep the good parts / friend part of me while walking away from the rest. For some reason this is hitting home with me logically, just not emotionally."

This is exactly why I am pounding a DB coach. I challenge you to read Claire's last post. I want you to hear what she said in her own words. How to navigate this so you don't come across as controlling or vindictive, but aren't a doormat...how are you going to figure out what's the right balance? Trusting your judgment with zero experience in this matter, a poor track record of understanding her, and overpowering emotions...well, I don't see that as effective as someone that's handled 7,500 similar cases.

Yes, $hits getting real already. NC is a taste of the future, and her leaving will be another level. The days of frantically checking your phone every time you get a text to see if it's from her...wondering who she is spending time with...what she's thinking about...right now even if you don't like how she's feeling she's at least sharing it with you. Before you know it a month will go by and you'll realize you really have lost touch. You are no longer an emotional confidant.

Tough road, and I am sorry for your suffering. Good GAL activities. Make sure to invite people along. Don't worry about not having enough 1:1 time. Start making connections with others now. They are your parachute. Pull the release

[jedi]

Thanks for the read. You are (as you have been) pushing me to stop thinking I can control this or know where this is headed and to actually start really working on it with some help. I most certainly do not want to look back on this and conclude that by the time I really engaged "it was just too late by then."

For the record, asking for help is hard for me (likely not a surprise). I had my first post drafted for almost 3 days before I finally submitted it. Not an excuse or any cop out with that statement, more that I guess I just needed someone to help me truly see this is one thing I cannot attempt to fix alone, and that alone is hard for me to even admit.

Our ongoing discussion has been good for me in this regard, and for helping me on this road to clarity I thank you.

[jedi]

Journaling...

Today was better emotionally minus a self inflicted setback. I sorted through our boxes of keepsakes (aka notes, cards, etc) and that was tough. I should have not read any of it, just separated them out into two piles, but i couldn't help myself. It's tough to read stuff as recently as 4-5 month ago with no indication of the storm brewing.

I've decided that I'm not going to bring up the fact that W's box of this stuff is in the closet she already cleared out - I'm sure she saw it and either wants to leave it all behind, or was simply not ready to face that part. Perhaps the worst of this was the sad reminder of how I used to clearly fill her love tank back in the day with cards, notes, and affirmation, yet for reasons not yet clear to me let that slide as life moved forward.

I read it somewhere on this forum recently (post was probably waay old though) that someone wished they'd gotten 5LL as a wedding gift and not wine glasses. That hit home with me, and even though I don't know how many more weddings I'll be attending in the future, you can bet that's going to be my gift.

Began the process today to line up an IC. Pending the call back to schedule my first appointment on that front.

Also - heeded Zues's advice and had my first DB coaching today. I will admit I had hoped for more concrete "homework" but keep reminding myself that one, it was the first talk and a lot of time was spend with background, and two, I was told that what I've been doing so far is ahead of the typical curve, right on path as is seems to be inciting positivity, and that we would determine a path change, if needed, after she moves out. So, I guess an overall good first session even if I've not walked away with something "new" to try.

[jedi]

Question I'm contemplating right now, if anyone has any thoughts:

Previous to this past weekend, I've been telling W I would gladly help her move as needed (you know, being that great friend). I've since made mention that I'm not sure I can do it (emotionally), and also realized and made clear to her that I've realized that I've almost been pushy about it and would make no further mention of it. At no time has W ever indicated she wants my help, just so that part is clear.

As of today, I've now made plans to be gone the afternoon she is moving. I have no idea when she plans to actually start other than "after lunch".

Do I tell her I am going to be gone now up front in the odd, small case she is in fact thinking she needs the help, or just let it all be until she indicates what time she will be here to pack up the truck and if it overlaps I say cool, I'll be gone anyway?

I just don't want it to come across as "hey look at me, I have a life and will be busy while you move out", but also want to be sure she has a plan in place for moving a few of the larger items.

[Fogg]

At no time has W ever indicated she wants my help, just so that part is clear.

I just don't want it to come across as "hey look at me, I have a life and will be busy while you move out", but also want to be sure she has a plan in place for moving a few of the larger items.

If she didn't ask for your help, why do you assume you need to be there to help?

Why don't you want to come across as those things?

Shes leaving you, you don't need to ensure she has a plan in place to take care of the larger items, shes capable of figuring it out herself. That's not your responsibility at all.

Something else from your first posts I want to comment on. As Zues stated, you seem to be making a case for why this isn't happening. One point being reasons shes still cares for you or loves you. A sad fact you will come to realize is that her love, real or not, will not save your marriage. Marriage requires more than just love to survive.

I was in denial for a long time and thought there was no way me and W would not end up together. That she had to have space, take her path, grow as an individual, but in the end we would come back into a better M.

In my mind I believed love can never fully die, and because our love was real, it would bring us back together. This just isn't how it works. While I still have hope and faith we will end up in a new M, I also accept the possibility we will never be together again. Life is just too complicated to say for sure what will happen either way.