H had an affair last year - a LD EA with an old flame that turned into a PA when I went away to school. He lied elaborately for months about A, and hired a divorce lawyer and tried to prevent me from coming home. He had no legal standing so never told me about the L, just kept pressing me to not come back. He wanted to separate and 'maybe we can remarry later'. I returned as planned before Christmas, thinking H had gone crazy and something was seriously wrong. He was happy to see me, but a little off. I found proof of L and A in mid-January.
We decided to reconcile in mid-February. I had 3 conditions: Cancel contract with lawyer, go to MC, and write cease and desist letter to OW. He has yet to do the last thing. He says he has not been in contact with OW since before Christmas.
Current status: We are seeing a DB counselor weekly (4-5 sessions so far). H says he is all in working to revive the marriage, but not feeling it yet. I guess I'm not really feeling it, either, but I want to put everything I have in to finding back to what we once had.
One motivating factor for him was probably that I won't just go away and he found out I would get the house and a sizeable alimony. At least this is giving us time...
We're working with counselor on communication, primarily, and getting needs met. I'm working by myself on 180s and validating.
This sounds like Piecing to me?
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
My boundaries are that if I find out he is in contact with OW, it's over. Also, the anger issue has to be resolved somehow, in MC, or IC (which I don't think he'll ever do). It is much, much less than it was before. It was especially bad during the EA.
He has committed to working on making the marriage work, with no time limitation.
I'm not sure what the transparency plan is, the counselor said to him that at some point she hopes he will be comfortable sharing everything with me. He did let me go through his phones and e-mails - but I know he's holding out on one e-mail address. I think he also has a phone on another plan. Right now, I am holding off on pushing the issue because I am trying to solidify a common ground.
I choose to trust him now, but I am prepared for that he may not be honest. My strong instinct is that he is honest about the current situation, but that he has not admitted all details about what happened during the A - like having another phone. I will probably talk to the counselor about bringing it up, how and when.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
So this is interesting... After last week's MC, H and I had a talk the next morning that was very open, honest and calm. He said things I wasn't thrilled to hear, but it was a good conversation (H especially felt it was). The morning after that, he reassured me about some concerns I had from that convo. The rest of the week was very calm and friendly.
This week's session, we told the MC about how good the week had been, and we agreed it stemmed from that convo where H opened up. We laughed quite a bit in the session.
MC talked about love languages and how this week, we are supposed to work on learning each other's language and purposefully use it. She also talked about the four horsemen - the predictors of marriage failure: criticism, defensiveness, contempt and stonewalling.
This morning, H became angry and withdrawn shortly after arriving. He said the part about love languages and my difficulty with one of them made him 'think'. He didn't want to talk about it.
He was initially upset about an imaginary bill (it's not going to happen) and said he felt 'alone in life'. I told him in the afternoon that I didn't want him to feel that way and what would help him feel less so. He didn't know. I asked him to let me know if I could do something to make him feel less alone in life. He didn't know.
It's surprising to me that having such a successful week following an open conversation, and becoming so aware in counseling that it was the direct precursor to our connection, he would fall back to the silence and withdrawing the very next day...
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I'm not sure what the transparency plan is, the counselor said to him that at some point she hopes he will be comfortable sharing everything with me. He did let me go through his phones and e-mails - but I know he's holding out on one e-mail address. I think he also has a phone on another plan. Right now, I am holding off on pushing the issue because I am trying to solidify a common ground.
This sounds problematic to me. FEELINGS take a long time to return, but I believe that LOVE truly is a decision, and after an affair it begins with absolute no-contact and an agreement for full transparency. This is for BOTH the betrayed spouse AND the formerly wayward spouse! If your husband is balking at this, he is either still in contact with the OW or he's wanting to be ABLE to be, at some point in the future, and either of those sound like dealbreakers to you.
If it's NOT either of those things, then all it can be is pure stubbornness and pride on his part, and how much would THAT say about his really being re-committed to the marriage either?
I know this is hard, but in all my time on this forum I've never once seen anyone have regrets that they were TOO strong in their boundaries . . . but the opposite?? Well that landscape is littered with a lot of sad, regretful souls.
H could really get in touch with OW at any time in the future if he wants to... I'm hoping he won't want to. But I don't see how I can react to thoughts and intentions he has - my boundaries are all in response to actions.
The phone issue has been cleared up since I posted last - he willingly came clean when asked. It felt like progress.
He says he has already ended it and doesn't want to stir things up by sending her an e-mail. Knowing H, it's a typical reaction. He does not like to rock the boat. I think I'm going to let the counselor take the lead on this, she knows that he has met 2 out of the 3 requirements I had. Since he feels that I have been controlling in the M, I don't think it's a good idea to push the issue as long as he states he is working to save the M.
Does that make sense?
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I would like to encourage you to post in Newcomers for a while, so you will get more replies. Something led you here to the board, didn't it?
I was the betrayer in my M. I tried to do what your H said about not contacting OW, yet won't send the letter. Without that final letter that states it is over forever, then he is leaving the back door open.......
If you don't feel you can push it right now, that's your decision, but I am concerned the MC's implications and your acceptance is causing him to feel he can play both sides of the fence. There's still something there he is not turning loose.
How about giving us more background, and stick around?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
H could really get in touch with OW at any time in the future if he wants to... I'm hoping he won't want to. But I don't see how I can react to thoughts and intentions he has - my boundaries are all in response to actions.
The phone issue has been cleared up since I posted last - he willingly came clean when asked. It felt like progress.
He says he has already ended it and doesn't want to stir things up by sending her an e-mail. Knowing H, it's a typical reaction. He does not like to rock the boat. I think I'm going to let the counselor take the lead on this, she knows that he has met 2 out of the 3 requirements I had. Since he feels that I have been controlling in the M, I don't think it's a good idea to push the issue as long as he states he is working to save the M.
Does that make sense?
It makes SENSE, but it's dangerous and I don't agree with it.
It makes sense to me because I DID THE EXACT SAME THING. My wife said "I've already told him (her OM) it's over; sending him a no-contact letter now would only re-open things with him and I don't want to do that." I capitulated (because, like you, she had agreed to 3 out of 4 of my "deal-breakers" and was only balking on this one), and her affair re-ignited. I regretted not having stood firm.
There's really two separate issues: one is the efficacy and importance of the NC letter itself, and what it conveys to his OW. The second is that your husband should be at a stage where he's pretty much willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to try to repair the marriage with you, as long as you ask it honestly and respectfully. If you said "Honey, in order for me to feel safe in the marriage again, I need you to stand on your head once every morning for 15 seconds, so I can watch you do it," he should still do it.
You're basically saying "This is what I need in order to feel safe in the marriage again, considering your infidelity" and he's basically saying "Screw you -- I know best, I'll handle it."
I would like to encourage you to post in Newcomers for a while, so you will get more replies. Something led you here to the board, didn't it?
I was the betrayer in my M. I tried to do what your H said about not contacting OW, yet won't send the letter. Without that final letter that states it is over forever, then he is leaving the back door open.......
If you don't feel you can push it right now, that's your decision, but I am concerned the MC's implications and your acceptance is causing him to feel he can play both sides of the fence. There's still something there he is not turning loose.
How about giving us more background, and stick around?
Hi Sandi,
Thank you for replying and sharing your experience. The MC said to H that she hoped he would get to the point where he would be willing to send the letter. I think she wanted to give him time to come out of the fog a little first? I understand what you're saying about keeping the back door open, I'm hoping that when there's a little more distance to the A and if there's a little more optimism in regards to our M, he will do it. I don't want to push him to do it against his will, because so much of the problem has been his inability to stand up for himself and express his needs. I will express it as a wish at some point - something I need him to do - and hope that he will choose to do it.
I have been posting in Newcomers for a few weeks, I joined the board in April, I think. It was our MC who told me to get on here. I don't know if our situation fits neatly into any specific category... We have both committed to work on the marriage with the MC, but we both know we may not succeed in reaching our goal. H is doing it in spite of his wishes - he really just wants to be alone, but he feels an obligation to attempt to salvage our M. Like you say here, I have the gift of time and I'm trying to use it wisely.
I'm really sort of uncomfortable posting in a public board that anyone on the internet can read (including H), and keep wondering if I should ask to have my posts and profile deleted... I ran a support board for stepfamilies for almost a decade, but all forums except one was closed for non-members.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Starsky, thank you for sharing your experience. It's interesting that you went through the same thing!
I understand what you're saying about the back door being open, I absolutely agree. I will attend to closing it at some point, I just want to time it right. What is it they say about eating an elephant, you have to do it one bite at a time?
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
In my situation (and in advising others who are at the stage you are at), I try to understand an important distinction:
FEELINGS -- romantic, "IN-love-with-you" feelings -- will take several months and even a couple of years to return following an affair. That was depressing for me to hear that when I was just starting to attempt reconciliation with my wife, and I in fact denied it was true, but it took a good 2-3 years for my wife's feelings of love and respect for me to return, and vice-versa.
The DECISION however to do what is necessary to repair the marriage following an affair is just that -- a DECISION. It should take no more than 5 minutes to decide -- certainly not more than 24 hours. Whenever my wife would say "I don't know if my feelings for you will ever return," I would say "I understand that and I'm willing to be very patient in that regard -- it could take many, many months. But whether or not you're willing to do this short list of things that I say I need at this point, to me, isn't about feelings. It's a DECISION that you need to make, if you want to remain married to me."
Maybe that's just me, but the "fog" doesn't need to be fully lifted in order for a formerly wayward spouse to decide on full no-contact and transparency and working on their marriage with their betrayed spouse.
Starsky, I hope you would copy and paste the entire post in your own personal archives for times when you can post it to other posters at the appropriate time. PERFECT choice of words and concept.
Starsky, I hope you would copy and paste the entire post in your own personal archives for times when you can post it to other posters at the appropriate time. PERFECT choice of words and concept.
In my situation (and in advising others who are at the stage you are at), I try to understand an important distinction:
FEELINGS -- romantic, "IN-love-with-you" feelings -- will take several months and even a couple of years to return following an affair. That was depressing for me to hear that when I was just starting to attempt reconciliation with my wife, and I in fact denied it was true, but it took a good 2-3 years for my wife's feelings of love and respect for me to return, and vice-versa.
The DECISION however to do what is necessary to repair the marriage following an affair is just that -- a DECISION. It should take no more than 5 minutes to decide -- certainly not more than 24 hours. Whenever my wife would say "I don't know if my feelings for you will ever return," I would say "I understand that and I'm willing to be very patient in that regard -- it could take many, many months. But whether or not you're willing to do this short list of things that I say I need at this point, to me, isn't about feelings. It's a DECISION that you need to make, if you want to remain married to me."
Maybe that's just me, but the "fog" doesn't need to be fully lifted in order for a formerly wayward spouse to decide on full no-contact and transparency and working on their marriage with their betrayed spouse.
Starsky
I understand what you're saying, and I'm not expecting the feelings to return quickly for either of us. That's not what I'm basing my pace on. I really think it's a good idea to take my cues from the DB MC who is directly interacting with us and observes H. He is currently struggling with expressing his thoughts and needs, and I think it is very important that I don't override him or try to control him or push him. I'm not willing at this time to force the issue and risk that he a) walks away, or b) becomes resentful over being pushed too soon. At some point, our MC will explain to him the importance of doing this, and he will hopefully *choose* to do it. If he won't, I have a decision to make.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
If my approach fails miserably, you are free to say "I told you so".
I keep coming back to what you wrote about it taking 5 minutes or no more than 24 hours to decide if you want to give you marriage it all. I think it took longer than that for me, on my end, after I found out about the A.
I think H decided to work on the M when I returned home, but it's been a step-by-step process for him to understand what it entails. And it's a process for me, too.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
A little update about some good things I'm noticing:
We're laughing and smiling more together. There hasn't been much of that except gallow's humor for a long time. We are much more together as a couple unit in counseling. It feels very different than it did the first several sessions. *Lightbulb moment* He's not spending the majority of the session complaining about me!
H is listening to the MC and still likes her and thinks she is smart and intuitive, even when she's giving him a hard time.
He's calling me a lot more.
I feel for the most part happy in my own sphere, regardless how he acts. The work with DB'ing is so positive for me that I'm enjoying myself and focusing on myself to where he can't really rock me.
One thing I'm curious about - on a couple of occasions, H has been upset that I didn't contact him - once that I didn't call him at work about something minor, and also that I didn't check with him before I signed up for a volunteer acticity for 2 hours in the morning on Memorial Day. This is out of character! The MC didn't pick up on it when I said I was so surprised by these reactions. Any insights?
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I haven't updated in quite some time, partly because nothing particular has happened, and partly because I had some privacy concerns. But things are going reasonably well. I wouldn't call us secure, but H has for some reason decided to stop fighting. That has been a huge change, because the frequent anger took such a toll on our relationship for many years before the A. There's still a rare outburst, but it's not so out of the blue and it's not nearly as bad. This has lasted for about 3 weeks now. I don't expect it to last forever, but I think it's interesting that he seems to have made a decision and is sticking to it. There is a genuine calm about him that doesn't feel forced. And I hope that when he experiences that our discussions or disagreements end quickly (like he wants them to) because he doesn't get angry but instead validates or just listens, it will encourage him to continue.
My lack of trust still sometimes pops up, so of course I wonder if this good mood is because of something else... but I try to not go with those fears.
The most important thing I have done to improve our relationship (and perhaps make him less frustrated), is my main 180 - backing off on managing him. I had a bad habit of having an opinion about most things and feeling like I needed to manage almost everything. H is indecisive and avoidant and I am not, but we got stuck in these roles and he became resentful and rebelled. I guess he wants to be avoidant and indecisive because of the freedom it gives him, while I like things to be organized and planned. For me, I think it might also stem from a lack of display of affection on H's part - feeling like I had to assert myself in the relationship because he made me feel like a piece of furniture. A very big piece of furniture, but still furniture.
I think my backing off has done a lot to make him feel better about us. It's nice to see that perhaps something I did (or in this case, didn't), worked!
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Not much new to report - things are pretty much like they were last update. H and I are spending time together and apart, trying to find new ways to interact that we're both happy with. I'm busy with a lot of work, but need to get back to GAL'ing - have been slacking off lately with the summer.
It's going to take me a long time to trust him again. And I don't know if I ever will completely.
We have bumps in the road. Hurtful things are said and done that makes me realize that we're not where we need to be yet. But we're out of the ICU.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Hi Painter, Now that you're in piecing, are you doing things differently than when you were not piecing? I believe my husband and I are in piecing. I'm just confused if I should stop the 180? I didn't see anything specific in the book about piecing so anything would help. Thank you.
Me: 36 H: 37 T:11 M:9 S9 D3 M - 11/2005 H not in love with me anymore- 2/2015 D mentioned - 2/2015 H wants to save M - 6/2015
I am not stopping the 180s at all - they have contributed to getting us to a better place, and I'm learning how to get through to H and what I need to do to make him feel more heard and valued. The 180s, to me, are insights and the foundation for our new R.
My goal is to turn them into habitual behavior, and continue working on finding even more of them.
I'm excited about the work I am doing on myself. I still don't know for certain if H and I are going to stay together forever, but I think I may continue to DBing for the rest of my life... It impacts not only a M, but all kinds of relationships.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Thank you. I agree 180s help a lot. Sometimes though I just want to kinda give him gifts, initiate conversation and pursue now that he wants to save the M.
Thank you for posting and I hope you keep on doing so. I learn a lot from them.
Oh, I see what you mean! I think all my 180s were things that H appreciated that I changed. I'm not withholding any affection that feels natural to express at this point. But I'm holding back on my OLD type of pursuing and trying new ways of reaching out that I think H appreciates more.
For instance: I used to do things for H - acts of service is my love language. His LL is words of affirmation. I'm not good with words. So now I work on doing less and saying more. You'd think that would be easy to do, right? Much less work! But surprisingly difficult to change, it's like I have a mouth full of rocks when I'm about to do it, and I feel soooo insincere.
I think this is something that will be different from situation to situation, what should you continue to do (changes that makes you a better version of yourself, and things that annoyed your spouse) and what should you go back to doing (natural expressions of affection, things spouse likes).
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Same here. Sometimes I have negative thoughts and I get scared that probably it's wrong for me to be reconciling with him but I try not to give up. It feels like progress is slow, but I guess any progress is good. Good to know it's not just me and my H feeling like this.
Best wishes to you and your H. I am hoping you'll make it!!
Oh, I see what you mean! I think all my 180s were things that H appreciated that I changed. I'm not withholding any affection that feels natural to express at this point. But I'm holding back on my OLD type of pursuing and trying new ways of reaching out that I think H appreciates more.
For instance: I used to do things for H - acts of service is my love language. His LL is words of affirmation. I'm not good with words. So now I work on doing less and saying more. You'd think that would be easy to do, right? Much less work! But surprisingly difficult to change, it's like I have a mouth full of rocks when I'm about to do it, and I feel soooo insincere.
I think this is something that will be different from situation to situation, what should you continue to do (changes that makes you a better version of yourself, and things that annoyed your spouse) and what should you go back to doing (natural expressions of affection, things spouse likes).
I am definitely the same as you as far as finding it difficult to say nice things to H. I hate to sound like I am forcing myself to say certain things so it has been tricky to find things that feel a little less weird and that I can get out authentically. I can say I appreciate my h for doing xyz very easily but telling him he is attractive is hard! So I started saying, "you look nice today" or "that shirt looks really good on you." That came really pretty easily so I tried to do it as often as I could w/o overdoing it. Then I've started to compliment him more on his looks. Tonight I told him that I liked his beard that he was growing out & that he looked cute with it. He said- "I"ve grown out my beard before & you never seemed to like it." I told him that I liked it but that I just never said anything b/c other stuff got in the way. Which is true... my own stuff got in the way as well as resentments from how he treated me (due to how I treated him... a vicious cycle). But now I'm getting past all that & I hope that he can know that I do find him attractive even if I haven't said so (until now) for the past 10 years or more!
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
That's a great idea - personal compliments might be easy to start with.
I have been remiss in saying nice stuff lately, and that may have contributed to us backsliding pretty severely.
H was so verbally abusive the other night that I felt I'd had enough. He has also become angry every time lately when I tried to find a time to schedule MC. (Open question: When would it be convenient for you to go to MC? Response: Angry rant about how he has no time, too busy, many important things to do.) I have now told him he can schedule if he wants to.
I've pulled back emotionally and am focusing on becoming financially independent. I'm sure it's going to take time so I won't be making any big decisions or declarations until I feel I'm secure in my choices.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Ah, so sorry it has gone a bit south on you. Sounds like he is dragging his feet a little bit. I'd definitely take care of you while keeping positive and upbeat with him. Taking a step back is probably a good idea... might help if he doesn't feel forced into it.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
Sorry to hear that things are not great at the moment and that your H is not treating you well. Sounds like he still has lots of built up anger.
I think it is smart that you are working towards financial independence. It has to be a big weight on your shoulders.
I will say that I commend your H format least giving R a chance. While it is hard to predict the final outcome, he is doing more than other WHs on here.maybe it will just take time for his resentment to wane.
Do you have any goal steps you are taking to be more financially secure?
Hang in there!!
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
I'm applying for jobs and also working hard on my own business. H is definitely the breadwinner, and our financial situation simply will not allow for a S right now.
I am at a loss for what to do about M. H won't go to MC anymore, he says. That may change... it has before. Last week he said MC was important.
We're in a cycle I recognize, and I don't know how to get us out of it. I told H he could do it if he puts his mind to it, but I have carried it as far as I can.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Sorry your H is not doing his part and has back slid a bit. Sounds like maybe you need to maybe refocus back on Painter a bit more. Other than working on your financial situation, what GAL activities do you have going?
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
Yes, I think you're right about doing more for myself. It's all been very work-focused lately, I've noticed. Fortunately, the fall will bring some of my regular activities back on my schedule. I have a weekend retreat planned in October, and some other events coming up.
I also need to work on my tone - I have not been as friendly as I would like lately.
H said yesterday it's "too hard" to try to fix our M. I asked him what he felt was too hard, specifically, but he couldn't really answer.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I understand the tone thing as well. That is something I've worked on for myself... if I am upset about something, then I don't say anything. I wait until I am calm and ok, then I say something. Otherwise, my tone is bound to betray me and push H away.
I also get the "too hard" part. Sometimes it is overwhelming to think of all the things that aren't going well and all the bad habits that you've picked up. Not to mention all the resentments that have accumulated. It is exhausting to think about, actually. But maybe refocus on baby steps and reassure him that you don't have to fix everything all at once. It's really about the little things. Thinking about each other, being kind, putting in time. Letting go of the past can be tougher but when good things are happening, it is easier.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
Hope, reading your signature, I wonder if the person who is taking the initiative to repair the R can't 'afford' to feel that it's too hard, while their partner, who is asked to participate, can allow themselves to feel that.
I do feel sometimes that it's overwhelming, that H and I are just too different as individuals to make it work (it seems we have become more different as time goes by, or maybe H has stopped hiding who he really was all along), but I don't feel that the work is too hard for me - it's more that I wonder if we have the basic connection that even makes us want to be together. If I had met H today, I would probably never have wanted to pursue a relationship - our values, views and temperaments are so opposite that even the counselor wondered how on earth we ended up together.
Good job on recognizing the tone in yourself!
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Hope, reading your signature, I wonder if the person who is taking the initiative to repair the R can't 'afford' to feel that it's too hard, while their partner, who is asked to participate, can allow themselves to feel that.
I do feel sometimes that it's overwhelming, that H and I are just too different as individuals to make it work (it seems we have become more different as time goes by, or maybe H has stopped hiding who he really was all along), but I don't feel that the work is too hard for me - it's more that I wonder if we have the basic connection that even makes us want to be together. If I had met H today, I would probably never have wanted to pursue a relationship - our values, views and temperaments are so opposite that even the counselor wondered how on earth we ended up together.
Good job on recognizing the tone in yourself!
Yeah, I think you are right that it is probably far less likely that the person wanting to fix the R is going to feel like it is too much to fix. They have to, overall, stay more positive or they wouldn't be committed to saving the R. But for me, even though I really want this R to work for us, I do sometimes see all we have created and what huge hurdles we have to jump over to get to where we need to be. It isn't daily but it is periodically. Not sure if H feels this way... probably sometimes.
Are there any things that attracted you to him that could still be there? Are there new parts of him that you like? I would focus on those things. If you're going to stick together you have to find things you like about him. Also, you might look into doing some fun new things together. Something that you could develop into a new hobby or form of entertainment that would be something that connects you- dance lessons, kayaking, skiing, skydiving, gardening, bike riding, hiking, etc, etc. Those are random things & none may interest you both, but find something you guys haven't ever done, interests both of you, & could do together. I think it is important to do some fun things & create some happy moments in order to pave the way for the hard R work. And something new is extra special because it is something that just you two share, & are both learning about it at the same time.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
The pessimism hits me, too, at times. When H is particularly negative, I think, why am I doing this? But I feel the alternative - D - is so much harder.
We have had issues from very early on, but we also had a lot of external stress that I thought was causing many of them. After a number of years, it's difficult to say now if the problems are personality-related or if the stressors we've experienced have wore on us to where we're now in a groove that's hard to get out of. But I found that H has traits that I'm not so crazy about and that he never showed or I got a chance to see before we got married. Anger, and a tendency to go into denial and even lie are the worst ones.
And some of the traits and behaviors I really appreciated - generosity, warmth, willingness to help, fun-loving and adventurous, engaged - are not very prevalent anymore. I have gone round after round with myself on what in my behavior may have encouraged these changes, and I know that how I reacted to the challenges we faced early on, impacted our M negatively. It has taken me time to change my behavior, but I gradually have for the last several years. I just don't know if it's too late for H to change.
I've tried to suggest to H things to do together that we both enjoy, but he wants to spend his time off on things he enjoys more. The result is that he spends most of his time off with friends, and I do my own things alone or with my friends. I just have a lot more time off than he has right now.
I feel a little more optimistic today - I've been worried that he's been keeping OW on the back burner, but I just found out she's engaged!
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I had a horrid thought... The thing she said about her fiance on FB fits perfectly with H. And there's no other reference to the F anywhere else, he's obviously not around because she had to hire someone to cut her grass. There's no picture of him or reference to them doing anything together.
If I ask H, he'll say no either way.
He presented me with a ring while he was still married to his ex. I thought it was weird and said I would not be comfortable wearing that until they were formally divorced.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
That's what I was wondering. I posted in the Infidelity forum to get some ideas for how to handle this - the whole story is there.
Now I'm uncertain again... H suggested that someone OW dated before the A could be the fiance. But when I first found out about the A, he told me she hadn't been with anyone for years before H. So a clear contradiction there...
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
H and I are currently in a kind of holding pattern, but we had a brief talk last night that was interesting.
When I pull away, after we discuss separating or a future apart, or like now when H won't see the MC anymore, he seems to come after me to pull me back in again. H says he feels like the pressure is gone, like I let off, so he comes back in and reaches out to me. I told him that the reason I back off, is to protect myself emotionally, I turn off.
And that this is why many men get really surprised when a woman leaves, they thought things were great because she had stopped nagging and they were happier than ever, while she has actually shut down. He seemed very interested in this idea. I left him with it.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Yes, this is a very common pursue/distance dynamic in troubled relationships. For many years my H pursued me & the ways he pursued me pushed me further away. Then he gave up & stopped caring so much. Then the affair. And now I struggle with the pursuing role. It is very tricky to get out of, I think.
So do you feel reassured that he is not who the OW is engaged to? I hope so. That is a definite panic moment.
As far as doing stuff together... are you at all interested in what he is doing w/ his friends or is it an all guy thing? I'd say you guys definitely need to find some fun for the both of you in order to put some enjoyment back into the relationship.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
I am 95% certain he is not the F. There will be doubt in my mind until I know who it is, or until H sends a letter to her.
He mostly does guy stuff with his friends, I enjoy some of it at times, but a lot of it is loud, fast outdoors stuff that involves drinking. We talked about it the other day (another very peaceful talk, actually), and H admitted openly that he is guilty of just wanting to do his most favorite activities on his days off, to de-stress, and not being willing to compromise in order to do something we both enjoy to spend time together. He feels that he has so little time off that he should do what he wants the most.
I find it a little sad that his favorite activity is not to spend time with me... He says he wants me to be a part of his activities, and feels a little put out that I'm not going with him. So that is where he concludes that we are just 'too different'.
To me, almost anything that he and I do together is nice and quality time, except when it involves something loud, fast and drinking...
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Nothing new here - I haven't investigated more, either, been busy with a couple of new job opportunities. It only makes me miserable, so trying to focus on other things.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Feeling very down and depressed today. H spent the entire weekend doing stuff that kept him away from me. He just went to bed in a hurry - we sleep in separate bedrooms - and I don't know if I can live in this cold M. He thinks everything is fine the way it is, he has no need for physical contact besides sex, and no need to spend time with me besides eating dinner and watching TV.
When I was away last fall, I felt so good about myself. With H, I feel so much rejection that my confidence crumbles and depression sets it. And I don't even think he means to reject me, he's just oblivious to anything outside himself and his own needs.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Sorry you had a rough night, Painter. It sounds as though your H is still stuck in his own world. That does not sound like a fun place you be.
Tells us about the job opportunities. Anything you are excited about? A few posts back we talked about you doing more GAL. How is that coming along?? Really think you need to start working on some of that until your H is ready to get serious. Does not seem like he is willing to do whatever it takes.
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
It was a difficult night. H is away for the week now, which makes things easier.
I did tell him the next morning - he was in a listening mode - that I think separating (which he seemed to be wanting at least until recently) seemed completely backwards to try to make a M work better. Being apart, dating others, to see if he misses me enough? Would make more sense to throw himself *into* the relationship, doing everything you can to be the best possible spouse for 6-12 months to see if that works.
I'm taking a class that will give me the opportunity to make a lot of money over the next few months - if I work hard enough, it may be the beginning of financial independence for the future. That is my primary (really only) goal right now. I don't have much hope for our M, H is actually nicer now than he's been for most of the time we've been married...
Re GAL, some of my weekly activities have started up for the fall, and I try to meet with girlfriends regularly. I'm also taking a fun class online, but that doesn't get me out of the house. Met with a GF for lunch and some window shopping today.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Sorry things are not going good. I can imagine living like that is tough. When did the separate rooms start?
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
Compared to what some posters here are going through with active A's, I'm not so bad off... but it's still depressing.
The separate bedrooms started a few years back, because H has to get up so early in the morning for work and I wasn't able to go back to sleep. Also, the bed we had made my back hurt to where I could hardly function, and H doesn't like my bed. I have suggested adjustments, but he's not interested in doing anything, it seems.
At first it was just on work nights, but then he started sleeping in there on weekends, too - and then I found out about the EA. OW contacted him in 2010, but it didn't get more intense until a couple of years ago, from what he says, when she suffered a personal loss and turned to H for comfort.
I think sleeping apart has been very detrimental for our M.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I did tell him the next morning - he was in a listening mode - that I think separating (which he seemed to be wanting at least until recently) seemed completely backwards to try to make a M work better. Being apart, dating others, to see if he misses me enough?
I agree with you, especially not if you are at the working on M stage.
Originally Posted By: Painter
I'm taking a class that will give me the opportunity to make a lot of money over the next few months - if I work hard enough, it may be the beginning of financial independence for the future. That is my primary (really only) goal right now. I don't have much hope for our M, H is actually nicer now than he's been for most of the time we've been married...
Re GAL, some of my weekly activities have started up for the fall, and I try to meet with girlfriends regularly. I'm also taking a fun class online, but that doesn't get me out of the house. Met with a GF for lunch and some window shopping today.
I am glad you are meeting up with friends outside of the house. I think it is super important to be outside of your home occasionally with all that is going on in it. I am also super excited for you and the chance for financial freedom. I hated the feeling of being trapped in my job when my H was in school, so I am assuming it is a similar feeling with where you are in your M. This will help you feel free to leave if it gets to that point.
Any updates over the last week?
Last edited by BT13; 09/22/1512:52 PM.
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
I think sleeping apart has been very detrimental for our M.
Yeah, I'd say so. It is one of those things that starts w/o a full understanding of the complications. I had something similar where I started staying up later than my H b/c he was having to go to bed at 8:30p to be able to wake up early for work... I thought I needed quiet time in the house to unwind after the kids were in bed (as a stay at home mom who was always "on the job" w/ the kids) & couldn't see going to bed so early. H would ask me to but I'd only go when I knew he was wanting to have sex. But after years of this, it left him feeling neglected & he thought I was done w/ the relationship. So it was really detrimental for us. But I never realized it at the time.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
I am glad you are meeting up with friends outside of the house. I think it is super important to be outside of your home occasionally with all that is going on in it. I am also super excited for you and the chance for financial freedom. I hated the feeling of being trapped in my job when my H was in school, so I am assuming it is a similar feeling with where you are in your M. This will help you feel free to leave if it gets to that point.
Any updates over the last week?
H was away last week and came home on Friday. The weekend was not great, we bickered and were both in a bad mood. So far, the week has been better, it seems to be calmer when he's at work during the day. It is hurtful that he chooses to spend his time off with friends instead of me on weekends.
I have had a lot to take care of - housekeeping and paperwork and appointments - in addition to studying, so keeping quite busy. I didn't feel good the rest of last week, so mostly just been doing things I have to do from home. Need more fun in my life!
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I think sleeping apart has been very detrimental for our M.
Yeah, I'd say so. It is one of those things that starts w/o a full understanding of the complications. I had something similar where I started staying up later than my H b/c he was having to go to bed at 8:30p to be able to wake up early for work... I thought I needed quiet time in the house to unwind after the kids were in bed (as a stay at home mom who was always "on the job" w/ the kids) & couldn't see going to bed so early. H would ask me to but I'd only go when I knew he was wanting to have sex. But after years of this, it left him feeling neglected & he thought I was done w/ the relationship. So it was really detrimental for us. But I never realized it at the time.
At the time, we were bickering a lot (I didn't know, but he had a friendship with OW already), so it actually felt like a relief. I realize now that I opened the door for him to 'develop' that friendship.
One couple I know in the same situation, have solved it by that the W goes to bed at the same time as her H, then gets back up to watch her favorite shows or have her own time once he turns out the light. However, H likes to read and have his own downtime before he goes to sleep, so I'm not sure if he would even want me to go in with him now. He used to ask me to come into bed with him before, but I was reluctant (and wide awake!) most of the time.
H gave me a hug tonight before going to bed. I went in last night and gave him a hug and a kiss and said goodnight, and told him that if he didn't show me that kind of affection during the week, I feel like a booty call come weekend. Seems it seeped in...
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I agree... that the non-sexual affection is very necessary. I feel the worst in my R when that goes away. In His Needs, Her Needs it is listed as a woman's very important need and is important for a woman's sex drive. So it is good that you are communicating this to him. I'd keep at it.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
It seems it was only that one night... It was an awkward pull my head towards his chest-move, and the next night there was nothing again, even though there was plenty of opportunity.
So today, after being not particularly respectful of me while we were working together, he thought it was 'time'. I didn't pick up on the invite, so he came over and tried to pull my shirt up. I held it down, and he tried to push my hands up (because he's stronger). This is his normal behavior. I got angry and told him it was not cool to fight me. He got upset and said it was not cool what I did, either. We've had this exchange before.
We have this cycle where he says that if we just ML, he'll feel closer and more affectionate, but then it doesn't happen - there's no affection afterwards. So I have been going along and going along for years, hoping to elicit affection, but I feel like in actuality, he's just checking it off his list so he can move on to other things he wants to do. I have voiced all of these concerns to him for years, but he just doesn't seem to get it.
There's been incidents where I tried to show him affection - like hold his hand - and he pulled it away. He says he feels uncomfortable showing affection in public. He also seem uncomfortable hugging, he gets very restless and has to move away very quickly, and pats me awkwardly during any hug I initiate.
The gestures he used to do years ago, were either sexually charged (patting my butt) or somewhat uncomfortable - he tends to use way too much physical force. He would do things like stroke my forehead and hair like I was a cat or dog, which flattens my hair (no woman wants their hair flattened!) And he did exactly the same with his mother and his daughter, which made it feel a little weird.
He says he has no need for affection. I don't understand how it is possible to live without it.
I'm at the end of my rope and out of ideas. The MC didn't really have any suggestions. I'd love some input here...
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I would find a time to communicate to him that w/o affection, you feel used when you ML. So without affection, it is no longer going to work for you to ML because you need him to come along with working on the marriage. It cannot just be you fulfilling his needs & him not fulfilling yours.
Maybe find a new counselor if they cannot help you with this bit. Seems an important part to be able to figure out.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
I have told him this a number of times, it feels like I've said it 1000 times - but it seems like maybe I reached him by using different language this weekend. I told him that I couldn't ML because I had to preserve my self-respect. For some reason, that really seemed to make an impression.
I also said that it felt like a booty call from the guy who can't be bothered to have a committed relationship with you, but calls late on Saturday and wants to come over...
Since then, he has tried to be more affectionate, I can tell. Perhaps being very direct is the way to go. I've had smarter dogs, though.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
So cheeseless tunnels don't work?? Can be a simple change as the language you are using. We all seem to have the same problem with Hs that don't understand affection versus physical intimacy. I went out with someone from bootcamp tonight. Same concern. Romance and non-physical care goes a long ways guys.
Last edited by BT13; 10/01/1503:08 AM.
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
Just a quick update to share that things are humming along pretty good here. H seems to put an effort into being more affectionate, giving me a hug every night before bedtime.
We're still sleeping in separate bedrooms, and he seems uninterested in working out the practical bed problem (two bad backs with different needs).
I am not always a peach to live with, but for some reason, it almost seems he responds better when I'm quite direct and short about how I feel. One-sentence statements seem to make an impression. (Less is more? ;))
A lot of the behavior I dislike from him, is triggered by being tired, stressed or overwhelmed. He's not good at taking care of himself.
All in all, it's been a good week.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Painter, can I ask a question that's not about your sich? Luckily I don't have this problem for myself, but I read on the boards all the time how parents are using their kids as pawns in the D game: not letting them play sports because dad is the coach, sending them to grandma's instead of dad's when mom is out of town, things like that. In your professional experience, how do you stop things like this? Is there a way to get both parents focused on their kids instead of each other? In particular, I was reading WhyUs's sich, and it seems they are heading down a destructive court battle path. What's the alternative?
Just want to clarify that I'm not a professional, I led a non-profit organization for divorced families for many years, so that's where my experience is from.
There are a couple of things that can be done: 1) ask for mandatory co-parenting classes - this is usually supported by the courts so not a difficult wish to get granted. Offering to pay for them increases the likelihood.
2) Ask for a right of first refusal-clause in the custody agreement. That will usually state something to mean that if one parent has to leave the children with a caretaker, the other parent has the right to get them before anyone else can be asked. That should also be pretty straight-forward, but remember - it goes both ways!
And read up on Parental Alienation. It is a concept that is being increasingly accepted, even in Family Court.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Painter, thank you for checking in on Why. I know three couples for whom parental alienation is playing out in a big way. I've seen kidnapping, jail time, and $2 mil in legal fees in one case, it's totally crazy. For the life of me I just can't understand how you would do that to your child. There's no other adult on the planet worth damaging my child over. Not. One. Anyway, I appreciate your input.
So what about when piecing is humming along but you're so disappointed in what this person could do to you and the R, and it's like you see these sides of your S that you never saw before.
I feel like H has no character. How can I live with someone who thinks lying and cheating is okay? I see it in little things, shortcuts he wants to take in dealings with others, little dishonest things he wants to do (I veto it). I'm so sad... What happened?
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
A positive observation on interaction: Several weeks ago, I asked H to give me a hug and say goodnight every evening (he goes to bed very early for work). I guess it could be classified as a goal?
He complied, but to begin with it was awkward, and he didn't do it every night.
Now, he does it every night on his own initiative, and it feels much warmer and sincere. I think this is an example of how the feeling is created from the action. Fake it till you make it.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
So what about when piecing is humming along but you're so disappointed in what this person could do to you and the R, and it's like you see these sides of your S that you never saw before.
I feel like H has no character. How can I live with someone who thinks lying and cheating is okay? I see it in little things, shortcuts he wants to take in dealings with others, little dishonest things he wants to do (I veto it). I'm so sad... What happened?
I think this is a trap that is easy to get into but works again DBing. I think this is how my H cheated on me... what enabled him to do it w/o feeling too bad- thinking that I always had contempt for him, thinking I was done w/ him & even cheating on him, thinking that I disliked him. So I think it is far more helpful to think of them as damaged ppl who make bad choices when they are not in their healthy mind/healthy thinking. Also, remembering that what they do is on them.... it has no reflection on who you are as a person.
Originally Posted By: Painter
A positive observation on interaction: Several weeks ago, I asked H to give me a hug and say goodnight every evening (he goes to bed very early for work). I guess it could be classified as a goal?
He complied, but to begin with it was awkward, and he didn't do it every night.
Now, he does it every night on his own initiative, and it feels much warmer and sincere. I think this is an example of how the feeling is created from the action. Fake it till you make it.
Yes, fake it til you make it is a good thing when things feel awkward. It can push you through the tough times and into good times if you can stick with it. Good work!
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
Hi, Painter! Just read through this thread. We have a couple of things in common; an H who says he's staying because D will cost too much (mine uses the word blackmail,) an A (his) to forgive, and an H who seems not 100% committed to making repairs.
I question my sanity all the time. Why am I putting up with this? Our children #1, my personal belief that I'm married whether a court agrees or not, ...I'm pretty sure I love him, but his behavior makes me wonder why.
Reading through your thread helped a lot! I'll be keeping up from now on.
Ancaire, I hope you come out of this on the other side.
H and I had a calm and amicable conversation today where we agreed that we both feel this is not going well. There's no fighting or animosity, but he feels pressured and I feel unloved, so none of us are happy or satisfied. I'm sad, he's tired. He feels MC is just another form of pressure, so he doesn't want to go anymore (we haven't been for a couple of months).
He said he wants to be alone - not sure how that will happen, that's up to him if he wants to leave.
I wouldn't mind if he left.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
But I don't see how I can react to thoughts and intentions he has - my boundaries are all in response to actions. 
But surprisingly difficult to change, it's like I have a mouth full of rocks when I'm about to do it, and I feel soooo insincere. 
Sounds like he is dragging his feet a little bit. I'd definitely take care of you while keeping positive and upbeat with him. Taking a step back is probably a good idea... might help if he doesn't feel forced into it.