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#2566720 05/11/15 09:22 PM
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Hi.

Additional history from my WW.

From 2006 to 2014 she has worked in very abusive environments. Toxic coworkers ruined things from '06 to '10.
She found a new job in '10 but worked the most brutal hours until '14.

During that time we raised 2 kids with no help. I was extremely critical at for a year in '13 I believe. She demonized me saying that I was always abusive (now it's 3 years abusive and that we never loved eachother for our entire 10 year marriage).

She ran into the OM in Jan'14 and he preyed on her.

During her childhood her father was, according to her, physically abusive to her and her mother. Her mother would stand by and do nothing about the abuse and she hates her for it.

She has a sister and her sister reconciled with her father. My wife disowned him and I'm not sure what the OM has been pumping her mind with, but whatever it is, he got to her. He really played into her vulnerability (I'm guessing).

This is a tragic story.

Her sister told her that she burned bridges with her dad and now she burned bridges with me her H. She has always ran when things got rough. Instead of dealing with a situation, she just absorbs it until she can't handle it anymore and then it's too late. She fights and runs away.

Now I look back and I see my role. She hated her father. She ran from him through me. She hated me. So she ran to the OM.

So in 2014 she did a complete makeover. She got mentoring. She was under the fog of an affair. She tells me she was free for the first time. That freedom came at a price, neglect of children and M. She began seeing him and going to jazz clubs leaving me and the children behind. Restaurants etc. I suffered and the children didn't know why mommy would leave on Friday and they would see her until the weekend.

I've read what it entails for an MLC. It's depressing. There is no winning this unless I play the long game. I know that once she goes, she'll run and won't come back.

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Ten

Your statement about "I know that once she goes she'll run and won't come back is mindreading. You don't know that. You do not have a crystal ball.

All you can do is improve yourself, be the best man and father you can be and everything else will fall into place. Isn't that the advice this whole Board gives to one another? Easy to say, hard to follow I know.

I am taking the long view approach myself. If my WW wants to work on the marriage that is up to her. If not, I am prepared to carry on and be strong for myself and my children.

May God have mercy on us all.


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Ten

Your statement about "I know that once she goes she'll run and won't come back is mindreading. You don't know that. You do not have a crystal ball.

All you can do is improve yourself, be the best man and father you can be and everything else will fall into place. Isn't that the advice this whole Board gives to one another? Easy to say, hard to follow I know.

I am taking the long view approach myself. If my WW wants to work on the marriage that is up to her. If not, I am prepared to carry on and be strong for myself and my children.

May God have mercy on us all.


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Sorry you are here .. even more so on this side of the forum and yeah .. its not easy nor is this road quick.

Read up a bit on your sitch .. not entirley but some of the back story.

Seems your W will need to deal with that abuse, thats when started this avalanche ... seen Heavy asked about death/ trigger .... I think that in your case her divorcing her parents was not the trigger ... read up on MLC and you will see they start breaking contact with anyone and everyone close ... strange thing with your W is she knows about the abuse, maybe she has become so angry about it .. has not dealt with it that it started this thing off ... at any rate its all a guess.

So some survival tips for MLC that I learned .. took longer than I had hope to learn all this .. but again .. part of MY journey:

Pressure is bad .. any kind .. pressure about OM, pressure about the D, the house ... even pressure about selecting a color for a wall ... anything will get em spinning.

Like you mentioned .. long game here .. that part suck$, not talking weeks or months, but with that ... you have control of when YOU are done here, because there is no guarantee they come out of it, its possible but holding on to that will drive you crazy.

Bottom line .. and this is where the DB is a life saver, you have to focus on you and your kids at this point. You can not fix her, this was a broken spring just waiting to break all along .. finally it was wound so tight it snapped. Alot of what she has said ... the mean stuff .. yup .. it happens .. it hurts but seems they have to channel the hurt and frustration and guess who is the lucky winner of that honor ... yup .. you.

As far as OM, let it go .. that will run its course, she will realize he is not helping ease her pain after a bit .. or dude will figure out the crazy is not worth the amount of energy required .... mine broke up with hers atleast 6 times or vice versa.

So you can expect to see her act as a Teen who has a fake ID during spring break for a bit, its par for the course .. during this time, start living your life, make the changes in yourself you want/need to make ... you will have to reinvent yourself regardless at this point right? Might as well start now.


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How will this OM possible run it's course? It's been going on for almost a year now. I ask her if he loves her. She can't even say it. She just says that he definitely doesn't love her back. Talking to her just is a spin on lies and more lies.

I know that mindreading is not good. Okay. I get it.

I know what to do but I don't know what to do.

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Originally Posted By: TenBook
How will this OM possible run it's course? It's been going on for almost a year now. I ask her if he loves her. She can't even say it. She just says that he definitely doesn't love her back. Talking to her just is a spin on lies and more lies.

I know that mindreading is not good. Okay. I get it.

I know what to do but I don't know what to do.


If you read a bit .. sometimes the A's last and the MLCr marries em thinking thats where happiness is hiding. My W and her A/OM lasted almost 2 years before W woke up and realized dude was a player and only in it for his own wants.

Does it matter if he loves her? Nope ... besides how would she know ... she is probably not real sure of whats in her own head let alone anyone elses.

She is lying to you .. like a teen hiding that BF who daddy will never approve of ... my W did the same.

Here is the thing, there is nothing you can do about the A, in her mind she fired you from being the H, when you fire someone and they show up to work are you going to let them in, pay them, involve them in meetings? Nope ... door is locked and you are outside and can only guess as to what is going on at this point.

What you have to do is act as if she is gone, live your life and start looking at yourself, things you could do better... do not play into her game .. and there will be games. Let her go on this journey, seems she knows OM is not right for her, mine said the same thing ... was another year before anything actually happened about it .... not saying that will happen to you .. just sharing as I have been there, not to long ago.


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She wants to speak about selling the house right away. I don't want to sell.

She has been harassing me for days now. It's worn me down.

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I would not let her wear you down.

I would just say "I don't wish to discuss this right now," and change the topic or walk away.

Can you make the payments without her? If so, you could stay, she make you sell if you don't want to.


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I would not let her wear you down.

I would just say "I don't wish to discuss this right now," and change the topic or walk away.

Can you make the payments without her? If so, you could stay, she make you sell if you don't want to.


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What Cali said. Twice.

As for the house, if you don't want to sell, find a way to keep it if possible. Be creative in your thinking. I kept mine. Wasn't easy, but I did. I was very patient and careful how I responded until I fully committed to keeping it. Once I did, I was firm and resilient in my effort. I let her know she could leave etc, but I was keeping the house. She was welcome to help or welcome to leave. Made no difference. She was welcome to file for divorce etc, but I was keeping it.

Get the idea? It was a choice I made. Hers was whether or not she as going to fight it. I of course, knew that would interfere with her "plan" to be "happy" so I knew I had a shot at keeping the house. And I'm stubborn like that... smile

AJ


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Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Well we had our talk. She told me that if she moved away, there was no way I could afford the house on my own. She said that I was keeping her here as financial blackmail.

That there was no way she could live outside the home and pay for our mortgage and living expenses.

I believe she is saying that if she moved out, she would still be responsible for at least half the mortgage payment.

I affirmed her when she told me that I was an abandoner. She told me that this is an underhanded ploy to get me to keep her here and to trick her into reconciling. All that affirming was just manipulation. She hates this house because this house reminds her of me. She needs to get out and live alone.

But I said, I'm not selling. I'm not keeping you here. She said that I was financially keeping her here.

The good news is I think I've been downgraded from emotional and verbal abuser to abandoner.

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My suggestion is to let her spew.

Are both of your names on the mortgage? If so, you are both legally responsble for the mortgage.

I wouldnt leave or sell. Too bad foor her.


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I agree, let her spew to her heart's content. It's her mantra and the only person that she's truly trying to convince is herself. She's a runner and the house reminds her of what she once loved and enjoyed.

She's been busy projecting on to you what she's doing herself.

If your name is on the mortgage, then stay if you can afford it. As for her, she can move out and figure things out for herself. Poor woman, she doesn't have a clue...but she's going to find out very quickly that bills roll in and money goes out the door.

Hang in there!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Starsky sells the Spew Jacket, you will need one.

Thing is she is going to spew, blow up, yell because in her mind she has this all figured out, excactly how it will go and unfold .. unfortunately she most likely has not thought about you ... in her mind you should be going along with all this, if not helping her ... its ludicrous but seems that how they think, when you do something that is unexpected it throws them off, first impulse is to spew, as you are the sole reason for their unhappiness as far as they are concerned right now. She will need to go on her journey and figure out some things ... one of these is that you are in fact not the reason for all the unhappiness.

I agree with the house, her choice she can leave. You can rent part of it out, pick up work, whatever ... Just like all things .. they want this let them do the work.


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She has told me now that she is going to hire a lawyer and get a separation agreement and make me sell in a couple of months.

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Originally Posted By: TenBook
She has told me now that she is going to hire a lawyer and get a separation agreement and make me sell in a couple of months.


Well then you know where you stand and what you need to do. Get your own lawyer.

At some point I would not be suprised to see her switch gears and try to nice you into this ... repeat after me "I respect your wishes but this is not what I want" Say it once and leave it at that ... then you must protect yourself, your family and your assets. Do not be a doormat in this case.


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I don't know what I would do without you guys.

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She texted back and said that I would be giving up huge returns on selling the house. It would pay for our kids education.

"You don't trust me?"

I am delaying at risk of huge financial cost

won't be good for the kids to move mid year

Please reconsider for the kids and to take advantage of hot market.

don't listen to your family, they just want to hurt me. Bad for kids. Are you listening because you want to punish me?


I replied:

I respect your wishes but this is not what I want.

I don't get it. Why does this hurt so much? I knew this would happen. I tried to prepare for it. Why??

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^^

Not sure what are your words , her words , your thoughts up there.

As far as trusting her ... lol .. nope.

Again, selling the house its not just about the financial gain/loss ..... and seems she is concerned about the kids as far as education but has she thought about the long term issues D will have .. most likely not .. she is in SelfishVille currently, let her live there till things are not working out.


As far as the Pain ... it hurts because it feel s like the walls are closing in and you are losing all you have held onto. Again .. out of your control and you do need to release it , and her, remember you can only control your actions and reactions to this mess. Protect yourself ... research what you can do .. its time to plan this with the thought that she is gone, its survival mode time.


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Her response:

You can't get what you want for long term.
You are delaying at huge financial cost.
You do not respect my wishes
You do not understand me
You seem to want me to suffer
I will suffer from this. I see no other reason you would do this.


What do I say?

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Wow .. alot of you you you's in that.

Ten .. have you gone dark/dim with her? ... or like me were you to readily accessible .. has she ever had to really do things without you, life with out you?

Honestly .. nothing she has said requires your immediate response so I personally would let her slow cook with it, let it sink in you are not going to just roll over and be her puppet anymore .. I caught you read NMMNG ... think about those lessons here.

I got to the point with my W I refused any big discussion like this over TM or email so I was not misunderstood. Something like this you may want to tell her you are looking into it, protecting your assets and yourself, getting legal advice and will get back to her .... but I would wait on telling her that for a bit.

T2 gave me some good advice with TM back to my W. (I was to available .. even at 2 in the morning)

Emergency concerning kids .. immediate response
Concerning Kids (schedules pick ups ... etc) 15-20 min
Anything else .. 2 hours .. you are busy GALing, and living your life.


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Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
Wow .. alot of you you you's in that.

Ten .. have you gone dark/dim with her? ... or like me were you to readily accessible .. has she ever had to really do things without you, life with out you?

TB: I have been going dark since the beginning of April. It really helped but it enraged her. We started talking again only a couple of days ago and it opened up all my healing wounds.

Honestly .. nothing she has said requires your immediate response so I personally would let her slow cook with it, let it sink in you are not going to just roll over and be her puppet anymore .. I caught you read NMMNG ... think about those lessons here.

TB: I don't want her to suffer. Of course... I know that answer to my own response!!

I got to the point with my W I refused any big discussion like this over TM or email so I was not misunderstood. Something like this you may want to tell her you are looking into it, protecting your assets and yourself, getting legal advice and will get back to her .... but I would wait on telling her that for a bit.

T2 gave me some good advice with TM back to my W. (I was to available .. even at 2 in the morning)

Emergency concerning kids .. immediate response
Concerning Kids (schedules pick ups ... etc) 15-20 min
Anything else .. 2 hours .. you are busy GALing, and living your life.



It comes down to going dark and one day at a time.

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What is a spew jacket

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Originally Posted By: TenBook
What is a spew jacket


LOL .. ok I laughed ... its an imaginary jacket ... with the MLCrs they love to yell and blow up on us ... picture someone who spits alot when they scream .. putting on the 'spew jacket' protects you .. your emotions, feelings, core as you realize its just spew, nothing sticks, its coming from a dark place and means nothing ... in my case W was so upset with her life, who she was, what she was doing, so unhappy .. I was the easy target for ALL the blame .. she spewed on me quite a bit till I started putting safe guards (boundaries) I owned what I needed to own, MY short comings in the M, anything else I either let her vent ... but started slowly refusing to put up with the beat downs.
MLC'rs can get pretty bad ... mine in that dept was, still can be at times but its so much better as I have enforced the boundaries .. and she knows it.


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Where can I buy one of these Spew Jackets? Do I need a permit?

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You will also need quite a few "patience" shovels as well. As you travel the path, you will need to dig deeper than you ever have before for patience. First shovel is on its way to you.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Originally Posted By: job
You will also need quite a few "patience" shovels as well. As you travel the path, you will need to dig deeper than you ever have before for patience. First shovel is on its way to you.


Is there a bulk rate discount on those? .. I keep breaking em


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This is what I know. And I could be wrong.

She wants to live a single life. Being a part time mom on her own would still allow her to see other men. She sees me as the person who kept her from seeing how amazing life was. Being with the OM has opened her eyes to how amazing life could be.

I'll not comment on that. Maybe I will... You make sacrifices when you first start out with little kids. Not to say you have to lay down and die. But that is the truth. She also had the worst work hours. How can you blame me for that?? How can you say I abandoned you when I was the one who kept the family together. Ahhh well. Old anger.

She wants to live alone. Get her own place and live her life.

I hear that MLC is also about depression. I don't think she's had depression... I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted By: TenBook
This is what I know. And I could be wrong.

She wants to live a single life. Being a part time mom on her own would still allow her to see other men. She sees me as the person who kept her from seeing how amazing life was. Being with the OM has opened her eyes to how amazing life could be.

I'll not comment on that. Maybe I will... You make sacrifices when you first start out with little kids. Not to say you have to lay down and die. But that is the truth. She also had the worst work hours. How can you blame me for that?? How can you say I abandoned you when I was the one who kept the family together. Ahhh well. Old anger.

She wants to live alone. Get her own place and live her life.

I hear that MLC is also about depression. I don't think she's had depression... I'm not sure.



If this is MLC, there is no doubt depression is there, maybe you can not see it .. but I fail to think of a single case where there is a MLC without depression.

She may want to live alone, be single, and yeah ... they get a taste of a OM .. that rush of 'new love' and a fun awesome life with no strings, hard to compete. Thing is .. deep down they know thats all superficial, its a band-aid for a wound that requires some digging and will need stiches .. not a band-aid.

Second part ... you are in her head to much, its all mindreading at this point .. maybe she wants to be single, maybe she wants to have ice cream ... who knows. What she wants is what she wants and it has always been this way, one time she wanted you, currently she doesn't .. it changed and it may change again. Guessing what flavor she craves will do you no good.

Lets get that focus back on you, what new things are you doing, GaL activities .... starting these up and then posting here about what you are upto and how your W is reacting to your changes is where you will begin to see some progress, the key to all this Ten is doing the work, going on your path and your journey and allowing your W to be on hers for a bit.


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Cali is right...the main ingredient of MLC is depression. It will take time for it to begin to show, but they all have it. Depression isn't always about feeling sad and not getting off the couch because people react differently to it.

As for wanting to live the single life...well...been there and done that one. She thinks she missed out on something and, of course, you are to blame for her not experiencing life and seeing just how amazing her life has been w/you.

Something or someone stunted her emotional growth a long time ago when she was a child. The word abandon is an important word here...she must have felt abandoned as a child. Which parent was distant or left her?

As for living alone...that won't last long. It's what she thinks you want to hear right now...but there is possibly someone waiting in the wings, either in person or on line that she wants to meet up with.

For now, try not mind reading...it will get you no where fast and just creates more doubts in your mind. Do not assume anything because assumptions don't always pan out.

Let's put the focus back on you and what you can do to enrich your life while she's playing the repeat teenager stuff. Okay?

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Ten,

What you wrote about your wife wanting the single life, free....whatever. My EXW said similiar.....guess what...There was a guy there. Very rarely do people leave without a safety net..

Now the good part.

I have an amazing life. I have great relationships with all our kids. I saved me and it was worth the trip. I choose to be a single father at this point but my GAL is constant. I have to turn things down many times. What I learned from this trip helps me in all interactions in my life.

You can have an amazing life as well. Save yourself because you are worth it. The journey of shaping yourself is worth it. Change the things you want with yourself so that if your wife does come around you have the chance for it to be better. If not you will be better for someone else.

You can do this.

Mirage

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I have failed to look after myself for the past month or so health wise. Social wise, 1000% better.

Right now, for today only, it looks like we can't sell the house just yet. We can't secure proper daycare in time and so there is a possibility that we may have to live together until June 2016!.

She would continue to see OM during that whole year.

She mentioned alot of legal concepts on separation that I wasn't familiar with. I believe that I may be moving to do my own legal SA and see what protection that provides me.

I don't know if I could survive a year like that. This PA has been on since July of last year. I would assume at this point, my W is just the OM's mistress?

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Originally Posted By: TenBook
I have failed to look after myself for the past month or so health wise. Social wise, 1000% better.

Right now, for today only, it looks like we can't sell the house just yet. We can't secure proper daycare in time and so there is a possibility that we may have to live together until June 2016!.

Well, now you may have a timeline to get yourself in order, get your ducks in a row ... in the meantime its out of your control so what do you do with this gift of time? Yup .... work on YOU

She would continue to see OM during that whole year.

Maybe ... maybe not .. again out of your hands at this point yeah?

She mentioned alot of legal concepts on separation that I wasn't familiar with. I believe that I may be moving to do my own legal SA and see what protection that provides me.

I don't know if I could survive a year like that. This PA has been on since July of last year. I would assume at this point, my W is just the OM's mistress?


You've heard about the whole Ass-u-me thing right ... agian .. mind reading and it pains me as I have Jedi skills and perfected the mind reading art of MLC .... but honestly there is no way to know what kind of R the W and OM have, one might think they are madly in love with their long lost soul mate and that soul mate might be thinking ... man this no strings thing sure is nice. We have no clue as to what is going on into a MLC'rs head .... the visual I get is poking your head inside of a tornado.


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Thanks Cali. Your posts literally give me relief.

I've backslid a great deal. HUGE. I now have to piece together myself.

It's my bday soon, hitting 40 and no one to celebrate it with. My friends wish me well but they are busy. Guess I'm feeling quite worthless.

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Originally Posted By: TenBook
Thanks Cali. Your posts literally give me relief.

I've backslid a great deal. HUGE. I now have to piece together myself.

It's my bday soon, hitting 40 and no one to celebrate it with. My friends wish me well but they are busy. Guess I'm feeling quite worthless.


Pfffft you are talking to Capt. Backslide. Thing is you slide 2-3' back but you take 4-5 forward... keep going.

Birthdays ... my trigger. I always disliked them, parents forgot my 14th ... am I bitter .. 30 years later .. yup my 42nd Bday was the first time W signed it just 'W' .. no ILY ... she took me and S out to a BBQ place while TM her OM (I found this out later, still have a pic I took as a joke of her TM and sent it to here with a "I'm over here" .... yeah ... it stinks

BUT ... here is a chance .. for you my friend. Go out and enjoy your birthday, treat yourself to a good steak dinner .. or wherever you wanna go ... do not tell W, be mysterious ... time to DB my friend.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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^^ I agree, go out and find something to do on your birthday to have some fun. Take care of yourself TB.


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I agree...go out and enjoy your birthday. Do something different and just enjoy yourself.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Happy Birthday TenBook. I hope you enjoy yourself, just you, yes you can do it!

:-)


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Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.

Heavy, I confused you for a dad. I apologize, not the first time I've been really confused. Certainly not the last.

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Funny Tenbook,
just posted something similar for mcleigh / coming home re anniversary.
Listen to the others & plan something for yourself. What do you like? / like to do? Maybe the 'usual' or something else(?!!), something new?

DO IT for yourself. Cali says don't mention it your plans - leave as 'mysterious.' I hope you are able to plan something for yourself SOON. Pls try wink Take care, p.


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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Thanks guys. Going to see a movie and my parents and siblings are taking me out to lunch.

I feel so bad right now. I'm alone with the kids while she is out with OM.

This feeling is different though. I feel like I have no energy and my body aches.

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Well. Not even a happy birthday from her. She was out all day long with OM.

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TB,

I am sorry that you did not receive any acknowledgment from W on your birthday. frown That is what happens when people are in affairs...they block out everything except OW/OM. Grrrrr...

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Thanks Wonka.

You've been here for almost 11 years. Longer then I've been married (sad).

You've probably seen people come and go.

Have you noticed anything different these past few years vs when you started?

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Wife took the day off and didn't tell me. She was with the OM I just know it. It hit me, but not hard enough that I couldn't catch myself.

My thoughts turn to anger, I ask when will there be justice? I tell myself there will be no justice, she will live with the OM in peace and happiness.

But I know my own advice. Focus on me. You can't control your WW. She will do as she pleases. Focus on GAL and getting yourself strong.

And what kind of justice? You want to see the mother of your kids broken and defeated? What good would that do to your 2 boys? Focus on them and your own happiness.

Still, my own advice is so far distant to how I actually feel.

Why I have been forsaken?

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Your looking at it all wrong. There will be justice, but it will happen when you stop letting her control your emotions and are able to see how great you can live with or without her.

"she will live with the OM in peace and happiness"? That's a fantasy world that cant survive. Its only good for right now, one day it will shatter.

Its fine to feel anger, its just one of the emotions you need to get through. It will come and go, experience it and don't fight it. Just make sure you don't react to her when shes around.

An alternative way to look at this.(Only suggesting it because its very similar to what my IC has told me)

If she does stay in this fantasy world forever and never sees the destruction shes done to you. Would that be so horrible? If that's who she really is, wouldn't she be doing you a favor by letting you go. Your in a win-win situation and you cant see it. She recognizes what shes done and you two work on rebuilding the M into something better, or she releases you to find someone worth your love. Yes time is a big factor in this, but until another person finds her way into your life, you don't need to make a decision anyway on moving on. Either way, your path right now is to still focus on yourself. All the advice you already know, just have to keep doing it.

Might be time to find a good GAL activity to get you out of your comfort zone and experience something new. Something fun and exciting. What do you think?


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Your IC is wise.

Thanks for your post it means alot.

New and exciting? I want to get back to my interests I used to have!

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For the record.

Back a couple of months ago, STBX was still interested in reconciling. I remember that conversation as she didn't want a D. I said that I was of course willing to try as well.

But even when she said that, she was still in contact with the OM. Everytime I found out that she was texting or talking or even meeting with him, I detached from the reconciliation. She said that she couldn't take it when I "blew up".

I asked her... why? You know that reconciliation can't happen unless there is zero contact. Your sister said it, your IC said it... why? To this day the only answer I got was "It's hard".

She told me that they broke up several times. They even went weeks without contact. She said that he will go and find a new woman eventually. She had even written him a no contact letter. She broke her own letter and he happily responded. I said if he doesn't want to be with you, why does he continue to contact? She said that he was lonely.

She said that the one time she did use an IC, they talked about the A. I GUESS that's when the breakups and NC letter came about.

What else.

They now happily see eachother. I asked her if there is a future with him and she said no. I really don't believe that.

I tried to save our M and our family. This forum, the books, the IC sessions, the coach sessions, and my support groups attest to my efforts to work toward improving myself and saving our M. I put the effort in. Not for house or kids, but for you. Because I wanted you back.

I really think that you tried as well. So thank you. But you could never break away from him. You could not break away from the amplified past you rewrote. You could not break away from your own personal issues brought about by growing up in an abusive and loveless family. You could never break away from crossing the line. You could never break away from your inability to forgive.

I didn't ask you to believe me. But do impartial research into your situation. But you didn't. You just looked up on things about how to D, and how people are happier after D. But I don't know, you never shared what you looked up.

You said that you got gov't sponsored psychiatric care. I went to my doctor today who has known me since I was delivered. He said that sort of thing only comes with threat of suicide or severe, debilitating depression. I'm not sure how you pulled that off. Unless you really are severely depressed.

I gather that you wanted to save our M while holding onto the OM at the same time.

You don't want anyone to know about your A. Yet you speak aloud about how there is nothing wrong with it.

You once told me, and I quote "You don't like the truth" "You can't control yourself". You denied saying all those things.

You told me that you have completely changed. No you haven't. You've grown, you've gotten more life experience, but you are at your core, the same person.

What else...

I guess you never saw me in pain. That is because of DB. You look at me sometimes like you want something from me. Is it guilt? Is it pity? Is it because you want me to save you?

You have broken our family. I can understand why that is not a big deal for you. Maybe one day you'll understand why it's not a big deal for you.

You said that I don't share my knowledge. I hear you.
You said that I am critical. I understand.
You said that the words "You are personally responsible for your life" was criticism. Okay, I hear the harshness in that.

You said you didn't know who I was anymore.
You said that you don't trust me anymore.

I hear that.

But in all this. Have you heard one single thing about my side of the story?

To this day, you still don't know why I was not happy. And to this day, you still never cared.

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Are you just venting or are you planning to say these things to your wife? If you are thinking of saying these things to her...don't. Write a letter, then tear it up and toss it away. Why? Because nothing you say or do right now will be heard by her. She's in her own little "me" world and is only thinking of herself and new boy toy.

Focus on you. The om is nothing more than a nice "new" attraction to her. You are the prize! Remember that!


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My STBX threw me a bday party today with card and cake. I appreciated it and let her know that it was a kind act.

So thank you STBX.

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I'm glad she recognized your special day and I'm glad you let her know that you appreciated her gestures.

What are your plans for the holiday weekend?


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi Job.

I guess it is a holiday where you are from but not here. My son has a belt ceremony for karate. Otherwise I'm going to spend it with my 2 sons.

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I'm glad you have plans to spend time w/your sons. If you think about it, take some photos of the belt ceremony. You and your son will enjoy looking back on these special times in the years to come.


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Oh yes, I'll take some photos and videos. It'll be cool.

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Saw my IC today, she's really really good. I get a real sense of empathy from her and she makes me feel pretty comfortable.

I told her how my WW believes that I am a narcissist. That I have fooled my friends of 3 decades and my own mother. She indicated that in her 25 years of counseling and dealing with sociopaths at Canada's largest mental health institution, I am not one for sure. LOL.

She's proud that I meditate and how reflective I have become. She says it can have a positive impact on the health. We both agreed that we can't understand how others live without it. She told me a story where meditation saved her from a very rough patch in her life. She was skeptical at first as she thought it might be some new age thing.

She told me that it is okay to "look" at other women. I said I wasn't anywhere near ready for a relationship. But "looking" is perfectly normal.

She worries about how I am living under the same roof as my WW while she is seeing OM. She says it must be hell. I agree but I told her there is nothing I can do about it and how I have worked on acceptance. She gave me a book for free on getting over a loss in M. I was really appreciative.

She wants me to protect myself legally from my WW. And I am to report to her about what my lawyer has to say. She has been really encouraging. My WW has been piling on debt and cashing in on her retirement.

She asked me some questions about my WW's mood. She wondered if she was bipolar. I have no idea, I don't know any of that stuff. She has been very adamant on not bad mouthing WW to my boys. Even though our parenting styles are different, I should not countermand her authority in front of them. I agreed and I don't do that. Of course does my WW do the same? NO. I told her that my boys love their mom and that's a beautiful thing. I'm not going to interfere with that.

I get coverage from work on these things but only for a few. But she told me that I can do something to continue these sessions for next to nothing. Don't tell anyone. I get the impression that she wants me to keep seeing her. That really touched me.

All in all, I feel really positive afterwards but a little sad. She says that I am doing well in expressing my emotions during this whole thing and that I am a thoughtful person. She says it's okay to be angry. Anger can get us moving.

I told her that I am not innocent in this whole thing. She listened and affirmed but I feel she's more interested in me getting through this limbo hell in one piece and getting on with my life.

After being demonized by my WW for so long, it really feels good to have someone see me in a good light. I know my friends and my family tell me I'm a good person but this feels different for some reason.

In other news, my friends took me out for dinner for a belated birthday party (I've had 4 bday parties in my honor now). A buddy of mine got me a book that helped him in his D. He wrote a personal note in it. It's awesome to have friends like that.

I have to run and cook my kids something. WW ran out of the house to her OM and left them with store bought chicken, bagels, and popsicles.

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As the months have gone by and I have progressed through DB I find myself now in a state of neutrality.

We don't talk. We don't even really look at eachother. My boundaries are in place and she knows it. In effect, we are living separate lives.

She seems happy. She wants to talk and interact but I'm not really interested. I do not think she is as angry with me as before. I see the occasional look of guilt. I should engage her in a more friendly way however. Not to give the impression that I'm breaking detachment, but just to smooth things over.

She has given me alot of time to myself. For the first time she is looking after the kids at home. She still struggles to take them out on her own however.

What detachment has gotten me is a way to deal with her active affair without open warfare. It still wears on me, but not like in the past. Detachment has also slowly taken her out of my life. I am much happier when she is not at home.

Why did it have to come to this.

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Ten,

Life can throw a lot of hurdles at us. How we handle them helps us to grow as individuals.

You should engage her in a friendly way, just not like a friend though. It should be more like someone you were introduced to who lives a thousand miles away. Be friendly, just don't share much information. Keep living your own life and be the best father to your children you can be.

She may seem happy now. Most times it is temporary and comes crashing down. I don't see most men who are in affairs with married women as looking for a long term relationship. Eventually he will move on. When he does, it is you w problem not yours. Don't be the shoulder for her to cry on when it happens.

You sound like you found a great therapist. Keep working on yourself. Keep seeking answers about who you are and who you want to become. Consider putting a plan together that will allow you to move on soon so you have your own place free of her at this point. I think no matter what, deep down her active affair while sharing the same house does dig at a person.


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Thanks LT.

This feels like a glacier at times, slowly moving but unstoppable.

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Tell me about it. My only advice is to accept that it has to run its course. Best to get out of the way and work on yourself and find ways to enjoy life and the opportunity you have right now. They have to hit rock bottom and hopefully wake up. Until then there is not anything you can do about it.


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I don't know what it is, but she is really bothering me these days.

And all she is doing is being nice to me. It's like I resent her for it.

I see her happy and moving forward because she gets to stay at home while going out with her OM. I'm angry. I'm angry that she has broken apart our family and she is benefiting while I suffer.

I hate myself for suffering. I hate myself for letting her get to me.

I feel like I lost. She beat me? I LOST??

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I failed DB.

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Why do you think you failed DB? DB is for you, not to win your wife back.


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OMG you are right. DB is for me. Not to win my wife back.

How could I have forgotten that???

I'm so miserable.

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I've been trying to win my wife back. It just dawned on me. What is wrong with me? I've been dispensing advice that I have been blinded to?

Thank you job. You just shined a beacon of light through my fog.

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Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back on that DB path. We all make mistakes, i.e., one step forward, two steps back. Focus on YOU and what YOU can do to make yourself a better person, a more happier and contented person.

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I was in a dark place and I went and asked a mentor for some advice. I apprised him of the situation and he said that he was sorry.

I told him how much I resented that someone could get away from all this, that she will benefit financially, and that maybe I should start to play hardball legally.

He then said to me,

TB, you've already won the high road. Sure, she can take away some assets, but the law is straightforward already. She can't take away your earning potential. In the end, look back in a years time and ask yourself if you are proud how you behaved. Or are you going to look back at all the mud you slung and the damage to the kids and the mother of your children.

You've already won.

His talk lifted me out of my hole as everything he said was true. I have won. At the end of the day, morally, she is the one who bears that burden and I can pride myself that I did the right thing.


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Your mentor is very wise and the advice is spot on. You want to take the high road so that you can look back and say I gave it my all and I fought for my marriage w/dignity. You can hold your head up high, back straight and look at each and every person in the eyes. You don't have to remember what stories you've told to whom and you aren't looking over your shoulder each and every day wondering if someone is going to call attention to the actions that you have taken.

By taking the high road, you can sleep better at night and be proud of the person that you have become and know that you are far wiser than pre-crisis and now can go forth and share your wisdom w/others that cross your path.

You are the prize!


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Originally Posted By: TenBook
I have won. At the end of the day, morally, she is the one who bears that burden and I can pride myself that I did the right thing.


^^More of this thinking, TB. It couldn't be more right.


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Hey Fogg,

Do you realize that I'm "2 months" older then you are?

LOL

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I do smile


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Update:

I recently had a conversation about her Rewriting history and how none of that was true. It was a bad backslide for me. Was angry. More of the behavior that got me in this mess. I said I was angry back then because she was in an EA so what did you expect?

She writes me back and shows me a journal of before the EA and shows that I was not treating her well.

Do I respond?

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I wouldn't respond. You do realize that you can't rationalize w/someone who isn't rational at the moment? It's like having a discussion w/an orange. She's emotional and quite frankly, her reality is her reality, just as you reality is yours. Please stop trying to rush the process. As long as you know that what she's saying is Memorex, then let it go for now.

The more you point out things to her, the more justification you are giving her for separating from you.

Keep the focus on you and allow her to play out all of the Memorex tapes she wants for now.

If you do respond to her, just say "I'm sorry you thought I wasn't treating you well" and leave it alone. Otherwise, just leave it alone. Don't touch the hot stove again.


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Thank you Job.

One more question,what is the meaning of life?

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TB,
What is the meaning of life? I'm going to share my thoughts on this question. But, they are only my thoughts.

The meaning of life can be different for each person, i.e., day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute. It is not to simply exist in this world, but to survive, to move ahead, find a way to achieve and/or conquer those mountains that are put before us. It is the journey which means not any one specific thing, outcome and/or result. It's a process that we all have to experience, learn from the mistakes that we make, share what we have learned, to be compassionate, have empathy and unconditional love for our fellow person. If we can look within and are not afraid to dig deep and accept who we are, as individuals, and be happy w/what we have and who we are, then to me, that is the meaning of life.

I am sure others will have their own individual thoughts on the meaning of life. What does it mean to you?


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I don't know the meaning of life.

But I do know how I want to live it. Happy.

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TB,
Then sit down and truly think about it. Jot down some ideas and come back and share them. The one thing that is important is not to just exist, but to be the best you can be in this one life that we have.


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I've always wanted a Harley... Oh I'm posting on the MLC forum.

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In all seriousness. I believe that happiness lies with acceptance. Appreciation for what you have and showing kindness to others for it's own reward.

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I like your responses. Isn't this what we talk about when we address the MLCer and the fact that they are out there searching for that illusive happiness? The key for them is that they haven't accepted themselves for who they are today, but have to go back to the place where they were emotionally stunted to figure out the whys and what ifs of things.

We, on the other hand, have reached maturity and can cope in this big old world and will figure out how to accomplish what we need to do in order to remain happy. We will have bumps along the way, but we will face them head on and not drive around them. We appreciate what we have and want to share w/others what we have and learned along the way. Happiness does come from within.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I've thought of that question lately, realize to me its to live and love. In this case I prefer the answer stupid simple.

How are things TB?


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Its been a month since last update, how are things going?


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Hey Fogg!

Sorry, been really busy at work. It's just been constant. STBX and I are moving toward separation, perhaps by September.

I've been off the forums but I do check in occasionally and I have been keeping up in your thread.

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Update.

Wife has signed a lease to move out in September. Our separation agreement isn't complete yet.

Otherwise, limbo ends come September.

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Long time no update.

We are currently living separately and have decided upon shared custody. She seems to be moving forward with her new and separate life.

I am looking for my own place as our marital home is sold and I need to vacate soon.

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TB, found a place yet? Hope your staying busy and enjoying life as best you can. It's great you don't have to fight for your kids, my heart goes out to those have have that pressure added to their sitch. Keep us updated.


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Hey Fogg.

Moving out in November 1st. Staying busy, work is picking up with a ton of new things going on.

It's been such a journey and I've been quietly reading alot of posters here on DB.

You are one of the few people here that has remained that I know of.

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Been a while TB, give us another update if you can. Hope the new place is working out for you.


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Hey Fogg.

Yes, it's been a long while but my new place is well set up and I've bought a ton of things including a very large TV, LOL.

I've learned alot from my first foray into this forum and discovered alot of things. I hope that I can still contribute to DB as there are some very good people here, including yourself.

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I received your note, not sure I understand it, the simple answer is NO.

Please read the post above the one that you notified on for a better explanation.
I can do what it says only and I have no moderator powers on this thread or post.
So if you notify on this thread I will not see it.
More of an explanation on your part would be a good idea.

I can't be more vague than that.


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TB, would love to hear how life is going for you now. Hope you're doing well


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Hi Fogg,

Life has moved on. The separation agreement is done and now begins the next step in approving and negotiating. My life has developed and I've learned alot. It's been such a long time now.

I have rediscovered volunteering and been active in helping out those less fortunate. I'm slowly beginning to remember the old me and it feels so good.

My marriage is over. But that's okay. Life moves on and the future with it.

I'll drop by once in a while but it seems like you are the only one left I remember.

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