if it's too late why is he still here?

[lost18]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2530055&page=11

New Thread...stressing out over...for now

[mahhhty]

What happened? Who did he say he was with?

[lost18]

He didn't say, I didn't ask. He has, on occasion, gone out alone...I just felt this was planned. Again, ok except he could've told me. he came home and he didn't smell like another woman so I'm sure he went out and had a some beers. It is unlike him to stay out that late but what pisses me off is that D13 was calling and texting him and he didn't respond, (he said he left his phone in the car, not sure I believe that but whatever) she was upset and worried that "something happened to him."

I'm just having one of those WTF am I doing moments. I'm sure it will pass...talked to my sister and feel better for now.

Had a baseball game fundraiser for D13. Unfortunately I had to work in the concession stand most of the night instead of hanging out with H, SIL, BIL and a few friends. Hung out briefly, apparently H is still planning on going with BIL when SIL and I do our run in Feb 2016...SIL told him he needs to reserve a room. We'll see what happens. When I finished H was gone, SIL said he went for a smoke but he never came back....I texted him and he was already home...didn't even tell his sister and her husband he was leaving, at least it's not just me.

We will see what tomorrow brings!

[lost18]

He did pull a coupon or something out his wallet and said something about it...it was from Hooters. I asked "is that where you went last night?" he laughed and said no, he went there when his buddy was down and commented that he doesn't like going there cuz he feels "like a dirty old man." LOL

[Bob723]

Hello Lost,

I feel bad that you are going thru all these games with your H.

I can't think of any solid advice now but I wanted you to know I'm thinking about you.

I wish you well.

(((Lost)))

[mahhhty]

Seriously, this story sounds odd.

"I texted him and he was already home...didn't even tell his sister and her husband he was leaving, at least it's not just me." He doesn't even tell his own sister?

"I asked "is that where you went last night?" he laughed and said no, he went there when his buddy was down and commented that he doesn't like going there cuz he feels "like a dirty old man."... So in an indirect way you asked him where he went, and all he said was that he didn't go to Hooters. Where did he go? Did you ever ask? Did D13 ask?

[mahhhty]

Lost... Try to keep your head on straight even though it is confusing! It seems confusing to me, but most importantly is how it makes you feel.

[RAI]

Lost,

It seems kind of irresponsible What your H did. What if something happened to D13 - Heaven forbid. You should at least document it somewhere. My 2 cents.

RAI

[lost18]

It is odd.

As BIL and SIL were leaving and we had determined that H left BIL made a comment about it being H's MO. SIL says he'll stop by their shop she'll have to go to the back to do something and tell him she'll be right back and comes back and he is gone. Years ago there were times when we would have people over and he would disappear...he'd be in bed.

I guess you're right, indirectly I did ask him and I don't know where he went. Most like just went to a bar and had some beers. D13 did ask and he just said he went out. I've said the same to her when she's asked me where I was.

It's not so weird that he would go out, just weird that he was out late and it seems like he was planning it. I had asked if I could take his jeep and he said no because he needed gas, I said I could put gas in and he hem hawed a little bit but said the sides were all on so I didn't take it.

And him not answering his phone isn't that unusual, but saying he left it in the jeep...unlikely.

He could have met up with a woman but he didn't smell like another woman and didn't dress up special....who knows.

[lost18]

I agree RAI, it is somewhat irresponsible...if he would have told me he was going out I would have come home early. I guess the only place it is documented is here if I ever need it.

[RAI]

I have started to keep a diary in my cell phone. I document quality time with my kids - if my w ever tried to call that into question, and I document erratic behavior by my W in case our D ever turns (more) sour. In this day and age having a indelible record is pretty easy. I am not perfect at it, but it's a START. I doubt that this BB is admissible. Even writing on good old fashioned paper may be more reliable.

RAI

[lost18]

Thanks Bob, Mahhhty & RAI for checking in on me.

I think confusing is an understatement! LOL

Today, H comes in the house and he was opening a package. He brought it over to me and said "don't say I never gave you anything." I replied "I would never say that." He ordered me a cookbook. It's actually really funny too....it's called "Thug Kitchen: eat like you give a f..k" (a vegetarian cookbood, we are not vegetarians) I asked where he got the idea and he said SIL showed it to him the other day. He knows I like to cook and try new recipes and that I try to be healthy(sometimes...lol) so it was actually a really thoughtful gift.

Then tonight it seems like he was texting again (hiding the texting is more of a factor than the texting itself).

My sister said to "let it roll" which I know is what I'm supposed to do...just frustrating as hell and so disrespectful.

Anyway, other than all of that drama I had a decent weekend. Played softball Friday and went out afterwards. Saturday I cleaned the house some and power washed part of the lanai. Then we had the baseball game. Today I finished the lanai and D16 and I went shopping and stopped where her friend works to eat. Cooked dinner, H grilled and we ate outside. Have had some really nice weather so I hung out by the pool and had some wine....this is when H went in the garage to text...

I'm looking forward to vacation this summer and a couple of weeks away from him, and I always enjoy my time up there and since it will be just D16 and I for the first couple of weeks I will not have to worry about too much. D16 usually spends time with her cousins and friends so I will be on my own. There are a few things we are going to do together as well. I am definitely going to use that time to decompress and reevaluate.

Time to make appt #2 with DB coach. Haven't done a great job on the compliments the past few days...will have to make an effort tomorrow.

[mahhhty]

So he randomly bought you something, and it was actually kinda cool and funny. Progress?

[mahhhty]

Honestly, I can't believe I wrote that after he left everyone randomly and went drinking. But it does sound like he did a nice thing.

[lost18]

Right? He's definitely more of a mess than me...at least I know what I want (although I often question what I'm doing to try to get it!)

Not that I feel like defending him BUT...in his defense he doesn't go out often. Other than when his buddy was here this is the first time (maybe 2nd) in 7 months that he's been out. To me it was more the way he did it and not answering D13s calls or texts. I have gone out several times without telling him I was going (part of DB right).

Finally finished the substitute assignment I was on, although I need to make the $$ glad it's over! I did take a job tomorrow but think I'm definitely taking Wed off and hitting the beach!

[mahhhty]

Hows the beach today?

[lost18]

Gorgeous! But I failed to apply enough sunblock to the back of my thighs and they are quite red! To make it better I took the jeep so it was a nice breezy ride.

This has been going on so long I'm not sure why I can't be more detached. It's frustrating. I really am trying not to let his phone activity bother me, but when he's texting his buddies it's almost like he purposely lets me see it, other times he tries to hide the fact that he is even texting. THAT is my biggest problem right now....well and the fact that I don't think he's attracted to me at all physically. Although my sister thinks the reason that he avoids any touching or even looking at me is because he's afraid something might spark...who knows.

I am going to try to focus on eating healthy and exercising for the next couple of months. Tired of feeling this way about myself and really want to buy some new clothes and fit into the ones I have! Going to the grocery store now to stock up on healthy stuff!

thanks for checking in as always!

[RAI]

Trying to figure out your WAS behavior? Good luck. Near impossible.

I may be wrong - because I no longer waste my time ve4rifying this - but I suspect that I can tell from whom she is receiving a text by her reaction: When she reads it out loud, it is (obviously) not from OM. But she always reads her texts out loud when she receives them in front of me. It is as if she is proclaiming "See? look how open I am". Needless to say, it does not inspire trust in the least. In contrast when she gets a text from OM, she scans it quickly and puts her phone in her pocket quickly. I can see it on her face immediately. I once did go back to her phone records and corroborated that indeed he did text her at that moment.

Again - I am no longer verifying her text usage (trying not too, anyway), but it does not really matter. There is no real transparency and that is a dealbreaker. So I just act "as if" when I see her getting a text - despite the pain.

Just one of the many "funny" behaviors of my WAW.

RAI

[mahhhty]

Sounds like a good beach day!

You have been stuck on the phone usage, but currently you have no proof of another woman. It is time to understand that you could be getting angry for no reason. Also, in the DB ways, it doesn't matter... you should be acting AS IF.

[lost18]

I know I posted a reply to RAI yesterday about how ridiculous I know I am trying to figure out what is going on in his head and everytime I post something like that, which I know is way to often, how it is not helping my efforts. Sigh...

I know you're right Mahhhty, but yet it is the one thing that I'm really, really struggling with. Probably because I find it so hard to understand why anyone would rather have a texting/internet relationship (for lack of a better word) than the real thing. But then I think about the fact that we got to where we are for a reason and he still doesn't see that we could have a different/good marriage.

Of course I let myself get irritated with his texting again today (not visibly...but I'm really frustrating the hell out of myself!) I thought maybe he went to bed so he could text without having to "hide," he told D13 not to lay with him because he was going to sleep. I literally started laughing out loud because I thought "If that is really how he wants to live his life, hiding in a shitty little room with a mattress on the floor so he can text some woman...have at it!"

I really can't wait for vacation!

Started my "diet" today, I'm not a big dieter, I'm more about moderation and portion control, but I'm feeling a little desperate and need a jump start. Of course I haven't run all week because my friend has been unavailable and I'm not self-motivated! Yikes....

On another note I think it's time to set up a girls night! I think I will make a plan....

[mahhhty]

I love your GAL activities and I hear you about frustrating the hell out of yourself.

I'd really like you to explain why with no proof you continue to think he is texting some woman? It could be online gambling. It could be porn. It could be "fill in the blank." I think for you either confront him (which might be a 180) or find a way to let it go (perhaps a rubber band on the wrist).

[lost18]

Texting an OW just makes the most sense...yes it could be porn or something else...not gambling. I'm sure he is not texting OW everytime I think he is....for example today I thought he may be and he showed me pic his buddy sent him. For right now I just need to figure out how to let it go, which is very difficult.

I think it's time for me to pull back but have to have a coaching session first. It seems recently, when I've made myself available (re hanging out on lanai) he is pulling back. So I'm going to say that is not working.

Tonight D13 has a dance at school, he is dropping her off, probably going out (he sprayed some cologne before he left) and then will pick her up at 9. I made sure since I have softball.

there has always been things going on in life (never a good time) his back, Christmas, end of the school year, vacation that I have kept using as excuses to put off any confrontations. There will always be something, right now I'm leaning toward after he gets back from vacation (which will be sometime after us) of just telling him I can't live this way anymore, that it isn't what I want but if he doesn't want to put any effort into this marriage that he needs to tell the kids and find a place of his own. I know I'm a great person with a lot to offer someone, I would like it to be him but at some point enough is going to be enough. I also plan on being physically in better shape so he can eat his heart out!

Ok, so I know that's a ways a way and who knows what will happen between now and then and I know I change my mind a few times a month....

On a positive note I found a new book (audio for the car). I've been listening to podcasts on how to save your marriage and 5LL in the car. Was looking for a new book and as I was looking decided I wanted a break from those geared toward marriage...I found "Spartan Up!" If you are familiar with the Spartan Obstacle Races the author is one of the founders of that. I'm only a few chapters in but so far it's a great choice. It's about overcoming obstacles...:)

Have a great weekend everyone!

[lost18]

I really need to detach and let go. I am back on a downward swing. Some of the things he has been doing the past couple of weeks are wacky.

Today, D13 and I took off and were on our way to a tournament 3 hours away. Something started going weird with the car. I called him half jokingly and asked him if we broke down if he would come get us. I told him what was going on and he said we should turn around and come home. Long story short, that is what I ended up doing.

He had the boat hooked up to the truck and had washed it up and I said "we should put the boat in the water." He said "what do you think I hooked it up for, I'm going fishing tomorrow." OK, didn't invite myself, we'll see what happens tomorrow.

Later he was texting openly so that doesn't raise any red flags. I guess it must have been D16 because then him and D13 started having a quiet conversation and I heard him ask "what do you want to get mom?"

Went out on the lanai to chat a little bit about D13s attitude she had this morning but because he has been so distant I left it at that and let him be, cleaned up the kitchen, did some laundry and watched tv... he was working on the boat and then he went on his computer.

Around 6 he gets in the shower and I hear him shaving. I assumed he was going out. D13 was in the pool and I was out there with her, he came out, put his wallet in his pocket and what not. Honestly, I was trying not to show my frustration openly, I have a tendency to wear my heart on my sleeve, very easy to tell my emotions...it's a curse! Anyway, about 10-15 minutes later he says he's leaving. D13 asks where he's going which leads to another conversation about him going to next town to see old army buddy who lives there now. He has mixed feelings because he feels this friend blames him for his D 18 years ago but said that's who he was chatting with and he seems cool but he's putting his pistol in the car just in case. WTF? We had a conversation about it, he's laughing but it's just so weird. He leaves, comes back about 5 minutes later and says he forgot to give D13 a kiss goodbye....I wonder if he thought he'd catch me trying to snoop. D13 thought he was acting really weird, asked me what was wrong with him. D16 has made comments over the past week or so about Dad going thru MLC...

I'm so frustrated, mostly with myself. I should be way more detached at this point. I guess I think if he's out physically with an OW it would change things for me somewhat...not that I want a D, but I can't continue to physically live with him. I'm really questioning what I'm doing. I think it's time to step back and start fresh. I really just want to cry right now but I can't....

[lost18]

Then it seemed he wasn't answering girls texts or calls. D16 called D13 because she was out shopping and needed Dad to transfer her money (presumably for a gift for me). D13 then texted H and he did not respond. I just asked and D16 if she got in touch with Dad and she did....I need to let go but it is very difficult while he still lives here.

[lost18]

"NO WAS will return to a marriage he/she left,

UNLESS

he/she believes that marriage can be better/different.

It's your job to demonstrate that you are different and thus, the marriage could be.

(Yes, yes we know SHE has her own work and issues to deal with...but for now, she may not be able to see that and it's certainly not the time to bring it up. But that time will come)."

doing some reading and came across this (from 25) I've seen it quite often and it makes sense.

I'm trying to answer that question and I am not sure what the answer is. There are definitely some differences, but I'm not sure he sees that the M overall would be different. I can say the way he interacts with me hasn't changed much...

My sister said that the way we interact has always been him in control and me giving in? Not sure exactly what she said but him in the drivers seat and me along for the ride is probably a good way to put it....and she said that hasn't changed. That is a big one...I'm not sure how to change it...

[Zues126]

lost, you've gone through so much. I understand your frustration at not having detached more, but I so admire your loyalty and character despite it's futility at times.

M's have definitely come back from here, and while this feels like an eternity now, I'm glad you're thinking of the greater picture.

Have you used a DB coach in the past? I can see what your sister is saying. Even how you've been "turning the other cheek" for so long is a form of giving in. I think it's absolutely the right thing to do at times, but I'm curious what a DB coach would say at this point. There is a fine line between showcasing 180s and allowing him to cake eat.

Just wanted to let you know we're following and I, for one, wish there were more like you out there. The world would be a better place.

[Bob723]

Just wanted to let you know we're following and I, for one, wish there were more like you out there. The world would be a better place.

Lost,

Thank you for posting such nice words of encouragement in my thread.

I am riding Zues' coat tails here . . . I wish there were more like you out there.

Have you considered a DB coach? I'm not really sure what to advise other than that. Your situation is a tricky one to show you've changed. I think an expert could help you with some solid tips.

((((Lost18))))

[lost18]

Wow Zues, you have no idea how that lifted my spirits. It's funny how you can bond with people you've never met and they can have such a positive influence in your life. Thank you!

I don't know where he went last night, I guess I'm going to try to accept that he went to his friends. He came home with McDonalds around 1130. He and D13 were eating I came out and he threw me a burger. (I didn't eat it!) No lipstick on his collar or feminine smells...

This morning he wished me a happy mother's day. Later D13 was watching tv and I was on the computer and he came in and asked if we wanted to go on the boat. We both said yes. He asked if I could run up and get some subs and beer. I got ready quickly and did that and made sure I did not take too long at the store. We had to wait for D16 to get home and I wanted to be ready to go (180). D13 helped pack the boat up so we were waiting on D16 (not me! yay!).

It was a beautiful day on the water and it was nice to just relax (and both my girls were with me and S19 had called!). A friend had met us out there as well. He went thru a pretty crappy divorce the last couple of years. As far as I know he doesn't know what's going on with us.

When we got home I made sure to help unload the boat and put things away. He told me previously that he started to not enjoy going on the boat and such because he felt he was always the one doing all the work, I guess that would be another 180 for me.

I have been doing really well with my eating as well for the past few days! Even with being on the boat all day I didn't do too bad...I had one Angry Orchard and then ordered pizza for dinner as well as Brownies and a giant cookie....H brought me one of each but I only ate the brownie and a bite of the cookie. Although that wasn't exactly healthy I still did pretty good with my calorie intake....and hey, it is mother's day!

I have some more thoughts but they will have to wait because I am tired and need to get ready for bed...4 days of work this week!

Hope all he Moms (and acting moms) had a great Mother's Day!

[overcom]

Hi lost. I feel you about the texting. Every time he gets a text I'm like thinking ugh it's her.

[Zues126]

Sounds like an awesome day with a ton of 180s...including your having a great time with your H despite the looming issues. Inspiring. Can't wait to hear what's on your mind.

Happy MD!

[mahhhty]

Happy (belated) Mom's Day Lost!

Sounds like a nice day on the water. Seeing him constantly it is even harder to not be detached. I know it doesn't seem like it but you are always making progress. Its not about doing what works, keep experimenting and find what works!

[lost18]

I'm going in circles. I think it's time to look at the reasons I want to save this marriage. I wrote them down as suggested by another marriage saving site, podcast actually.

I will have to find time to give more details on what has been buzzing in my mind. At what point is trying to save my marriage overlapping with being a doormat?

He has a lot of time at home alone, all week from 830 to at least 3 if I'm working...he could at least have the decency to limit his texting (that he feels the need to hide) to that time frame. I think I'll have to look into that rubber band trick..

For the next couple of months I'm going to sit tight and try to focus on being the best me I can be.

I know I need to check on y'all but time for me to go recite the Serenity Prayer a bazillion times and go to sleep!

Thanks for all the support and Mom's Day wishes!

[RAI]

I will not check how often my W is texting OM
I will not check how often my W is texting OM
I will not check how often my W is texting OM
I will not check how often my W is texting OM
I will not check how often my W is texting OM
Wow! This is much easier to write since cut/copy/paste was invented.
Losty, my friend, I have actually NOT checked my W's phone record for about one week. I feel great about it. I won't say I don't think about doing it. Eventually I will have to, just to collect info for my L. But for now ignorance is bliss. Perhaps you and I should make a wager who can go longer without checking. Sportsman's bet, of course. Starting today, if you're game.

I know it's hard because your H does it right in front of you. Tonight I was at an event with OM. Hate the sight of him. He was texting the entire time. I have no idea whom, but I can make an educated guess. But you know what? I don't care. Don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they are getting the best of you. Act "as if". You will be better for it regardless.

Your fellow snooper,

RAI

[mahhhty]

What does your coach say about it?

Wouldn't you feel better if you just confronted him?

[Calibri]

What does your coach say about it?

Wouldn't you feel better if you just confronted him?

For real.

Lost18, I've been following your sitch for awhile but never really had anything helpful to say. But seriously, (and I say this with all respect), how long are you going to let this go around and around? I understand not wanting to know what he might say, or that it might blow up - but from where I'm sitting, there's going to be no forward movement of any kind until the texting issue gets addressed and or possible resolved for you.

The carousel never stops turning. But you can choose to get off it.

[lost18]

I'll take that bet RAI...but I'm not "snooping" per say. I have no idea who or how often he is texting or his internet usage. Just him hiding his texting and phone...

Would I feel better if I confronted him? Maybe initially but not sure about the long run. Although I'm losing hope that there will be any change (my sister thinks for something life altering has to happen for him) I at this point still want to save my marriage.

You're both right though, I will add that to my list of questions for my next session with my DB coach. I've been confused because DB says NOT to confront, bring up R talk etc. and that I should be acting as if.

As I said before, time to reevaluate what I REALLY want and what I'm doing to get there....

[mahhhty]

Morning Lost... I reordered your sentences to respond better.

You're both right though, I will add that to my list of questions for my next session with my DB coach. I've been confused because DB says NOT to confront, bring up R talk etc. and that I should be acting as if.

I think you have to understand what the DB coach says. I also think your explanation of DB'ing is perhaps only partly right. DB'ing is not the idea to NOT confront the other person. It is about doing what works and doing 180s. That is my perspective. I think the no confrontation piece is only if you are the pursuer while implementing LRT.

Would I feel better if I confronted him? Maybe initially but not sure about the long run. Although I'm losing hope that there will be any change (my sister thinks for something life altering has to happen for him) I at this point still want to save my marriage.

This kind of gets me a little funky. I can see my W in this sentence. Perhaps she did everything you are doing, but I never responded just as he is not responding. Once you drop a bomb, if he does want to save the R, he will go through this life changing time (as I have). It wasn't my W's words that got me, it was her actions to get rid of me. I caution you to not fall into that trap or be so incredibly upset with him (about what you think is going on, b/c honestly you don't know what is happening right now) that you can never reconcile.

As I said before, time to reevaluate what I REALLY want and what I'm doing to get there....

I know you really want a long healthy relationship with you family in one piece. Do what works to get it. The challenge will be navigating those waters to find it.

[RAI]

Losty,

"Just give me a reason" has become one of my new faves, thanks to you. I have been stuck musically in the past (the 80's, mostly). I just realized that one of my 180s is to join the present, musically speaking. Makes me feel younger! I'm even listening to My Love by Route 94. I have never. ever. ever. listened to House music. Something very attractive about the song - can't put my finger on it. One thing I noticed is that today's music is very very explicit (esp the videos). I am trying to avoid that stuff.

RAI

[lost18]

Love it...and the 80's! Yes, doesn't leave much to the imagination sometimes, "Pour some sugar on me" what does that even mean!

[lost18]

This kind of gets me a little funky. I can see my W in this sentence. Perhaps she did everything you are doing, but I never responded just as he is not responding. Once you drop a bomb, if he does want to save the R, he will go through this life changing time (as I have). It wasn't my W's words that got me, it was her actions to get rid of me. I caution you to not fall into that trap or be so incredibly upset with him (about what you think is going on, b/c honestly you don't know what is happening right now) that you can never reconcile.

I know you really want a long healthy relationship with you family in one piece. Do what works to get it. The challenge will be navigating those waters to find it.

I guess I'm confused about that first part a bit. I get not falling into a trap or being so upset because I think "I know" what is going on...but he dropped the bomb and shows no signs of making any effort or internal changes.

I do really want a loving, healthy relationship with my family in one piece, that I do know. I just am not sure what works or if anything will work...sometimes it just doesn't matter how many changes or how awesome a person becomes : ) the other person may never look back...sad but true.

I have the house to myself for few hours tonight...a rare occurrence lately. I tried to get a coaching session but it was last minute and my coach wasn't available.

I have been doing very well with my healthy eating! Proud of myself, hopefully I will start to feel my clothes fitting better soon.

I may be back a little later, I am going to get a little exercise in (my car is in the shop so I couldn't go run the trail tonight.)

[RAI]

Love it...and the 80's! Yes, doesn't leave much to the imagination sometimes, "Pour some sugar on me" what does that even mean!

Good point! the 80's weren't so chaste either. Remember Franky Goes to Hollywood? I think there is much more swearing in mainstream music today.

RAI

[lost18]

So H just went out again...3 weekends in row, 2 weekends both Fri and Sat although only for a couple of hours on Fri... I miss going out and having a few drinks and people watching with him...sigh

[lost18]

He was only gone for a couple of hours last night...he just went down the road and came back with ice cream and twinkies (gross!).

Apparently, now he and his buddy have decided to go pan for gold in Alaska next summer....I just smiled. He told me they were going to drive, stay in our place up north for a week (pick up our atv's) and the rest of the route. Showed me where in AK they were going. His buddy went out to look for a camper for his truck. I'm not going to worry too much about it and the fact that I think it's ridiculous because it is a year away and a lot can happen in a year...for now I'll just listen and be supportive.

I've been in a decent mood (even singing around the house) this weekend. This morning I got up and got ready and took D13 and her friend to get some practice in. She has been out for about 2 months with a knee injury and has a tournament this weekend.

On my way home I realized we had 4 tickets (free) to a country music fest and I wanted to go. When I came in I said I'm going to the music fest, he said have fun. I asked him if he wanted to go, he said no, I jokingly told him he was no fun. I posted on facebook to see if anyone wanted to go but since it was last minute everyone was already out and about. So, D16 and I went shopping instead...doesn't sound like I missed much and it stormed!

So after doing pretty well with my healthy eating I kind of blew it this weekend. Started out with rewarding myself with Starbucks fri which was fine, but somehow last night I was eating cheese and crackers and ice cream which led to today...but I'll forgive myself, back on track tomorrow.

I'm hoping I'm on my way to turning the corner, not to detachment yet, but being happy and focusing on me...we'll see, maybe just because I'm in a good mood today.

[Zues126]

Apparently, now he and his buddy have decided to go pan for gold in Alaska next summer....I just smiled. He told me they were going to drive, stay in our place up north for a week (pick up our atv's) and the rest of the route. Showed me where in AK they were going. His buddy went out to look for a camper for his truck. I'm not going to worry too much about it and the fact that I think it's ridiculous because it is a year away and a lot can happen in a year...for now I'll just listen and be supportive.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

You should be happy. You're going to be RICH!

OMG this may be the funniest thing I've ever read on these forums.

To be fair, I do get it. Guy time, back to the roots, nature, hard work, rugged, beating a drum, all that. It's just so classic. I don't know. It's a caricature of itself.

Tip of the hat for handling it so well. Yes, a lot can change in a year. What a great perspective, and absolutely true.

And whistling around the house...I'll tell you lost, you are stronger than about anyone I know. Excluding the hearty Alaskans obviously.

[mahhhty]

WOW! Panning for gold. Really... Thats interesting.

[lost18]

Thank you Zues, your response made me laugh! And as long as he doesn't file for divorce before he goes half of everything he makes is mine!! Shhh....don't think he gets that! LOL

"To be fair, I do get it. Guy time, back to the roots, nature, hard work, rugged, beating a drum, all that. It's just so classic. I don't know. It's a caricature of itself."

I'm not going to say I "understand" but if I were to look at things from his perspective he is looking for adventure. He was in the military for 21 years and spent the last 6-7 years working with the military, in a war zone. The fact that he is unable to work is killing him and I think even if he were working a "normal" job here he would still be bored/unhappy. He told me a few months ago he misses being there (Afghanistan) and the adrenaline rush and excitement that comes with it. I really don't understand why he "wants" to leave his family (kids) again etc. etc. I'm going to try to see it from his perspective...not mine.

I know people and relationships come back from this and worse, I'm just really having a hard time seeing how that can happen with us. He has been home over 7 months and there is no real change...no physical connection at all, it just doesn't seem like he's attracted to me. The phone thing still going on, he shares stuff with me but nothing too personal....

But we can still enjoy time together...we went to lunch today, haven't done that in a while. Later we laughed kind of hard about something silly, connections right?

Guess I just have to take the good with the bad for now....

Totally screwed up my healthy eating the past few days..back on track tomorrow!

Thanks for checking in on me, I know I need to stop by some threads myself!

[Zues126]

I swear I've asked before so sorry I can't remember, but do you have a DB Coach?

Apologies to the forums for beating this to death. Mine has just been an angel. I swear she was sent from above to help guide me through. It's like when I have these questions I just get straight answers.

Anyway, this has gone on a long time. I know if I were you I'd be sorely tempted to separate just to move on and/or wake him up. But then I'd be afraid of making emotional decisions, and say to myself "if I were really detached, calm, and pure, I could be at peace in the midst of this" and I'd stay. But on the other hand, every month that passes with this mediocre marriage he is also yearning for more, and potentially cementing the case that nothing could be different (I mean, to you it's obvious that it could be if HE changed, but I swear he still might feel like it can't be different unless YOU change somehow...even if he doesn't know how, just that you would need to magically fix this situation).

All in it's a very confusing, sad, lonely, and difficult spot. And there's no telling how long it will last. Remember, my W and I hardly spoke for 3 of our last 5 years (in 6 month increments). Not angry, just defeated. And we lasted like that a long time. So it can be scary to think about how much of your life will be this way, when we want so much more.

I'm all over the map. Just trying to support you and recognize what you're going through. But I do think that you're reaching a zen-like state, and it would be good to get some expert guidance to see what your 3, 6, and 12 month plan should look like.

Take care lost.

[lost18]

Thanks Zues, I've had one session and have session #2 scheduled Thurs.

I totally agree with you, something needs to change.

Today we took my car to the shop (again) and he asked if I had any plans after because he wanted to go to the marine store to get something for the boat. They didn't have what he wanted in stock so we ended up having to go to a different store, about an hour drive, to get it.

While we were there we got a call about the car and the estimated $2500 it's going to cost to fix it...ouch! He was pretty bummed as it is going to change plans on his jeep and the work he wants to do on our place up north.

We went to lunch before we came home so we spent a good part of the day together. While we were driving I wanted to reach out and hold his hand or put my hand on his leg like I used to...but I can't, because that's not what he wants from me (right now).

This is where I need change, this could have been a day 5 years ago, except maybe I would have had more to say about the amount of $$ he spent (before we got the news on my car) or I would have been more demanding (for lack of a better word) and wanted to go to more stores "since we're here." And of course he went to bed in a separate room....

[Zues126]

It's so tragic that God gives two people to each other and we mess it up so badly. Sorry for your pain.

Glad you have a second session. Here was my tip to Jedi:

First off, I'm glad you got a DB coach. You're right, the first session might be 'orientation'. I'd encourage you to set up your next call for pretty soon. That said, you should be getting help right away. I tell my coach what I want. For example, say "I'd like to have a good strategy to guide how I respond to her contact for the first few weeks after she moves out". You can tell them you're open to following their lead, but that you'd like 10-15 minutes to specifically aim at that area. My coach is very good about helping me where I want it, while still giving me feedback and guidance where she feels I need it.

[mahhhty]

Stone by stone little lady. Lots of posts the last couple days, below is some of your quotes with my 2 cents. Along with some of Zues's.

"He told me a few months ago he misses being there (Afghanistan) and the adrenaline rush and excitement that comes with it. I really don't understand why he "wants" to leave his family (kids) again etc. etc. I'm going to try to see it from his perspective...not mine."

Remember my Kayak Analogy... Honestly, he doesn't even know all the exact reasons. It is how he is built. His predisposition.

"I know people and relationships come back from this and worse, I'm just really having a hard time seeing how that can happen with us. He has been home over 7 months and there is no real change...no physical connection at all, it just doesn't seem like he's attracted to me. The phone thing still going on, he shares stuff with me but nothing too personal....

But we can still enjoy time together...we went to lunch today, haven't done that in a while. Later we laughed kind of hard about something silly, connections right? "

So I see this as speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You have had connections, movies, lunch, laughter, shared stories, and the present the other day. But you are also right, no physical connection. So guys need sex to feel close. Girls need intimacy to want to have sex. It is a catch 22. Perhaps look at how you are enabling this behavior and how to change the dynamic.

From Zues
"Anyway, this has gone on a long time. I know if I were you I'd be sorely tempted to separate just to move on and/or wake him up. But then I'd be afraid of making emotional decisions, and say to myself "if I were really detached, calm, and pure, I could be at peace in the midst of this" and I'd stay. But on the other hand, every month that passes with this mediocre marriage he is also yearning for more, and potentially cementing the case that nothing could be different (I mean, to you it's obvious that it could be if HE changed, but I swear he still might feel like it can't be different unless YOU change somehow...even if he doesn't know how, just that you would need to magically fix this situation)."

This is perhaps a reason to be confrontational with him. Which I think is a 180 for you. You would have to be calm, respectful and fully able to take the high road if the conversation got nasty (a pre-planned exit strategy). This is what I think you could say.... H I need to speak and would like you to listen. H months ago you wanted a D. And then the conversation fell off the table. I see glimpses of the relationship I want from time to time. But I see a non-fulfilling relationship, where resentment for each other is building. I no longer want to act, do you want a better marriage?

From Zues
"All in it's a very confusing, sad, lonely, and difficult spot."

I know it is hard and Lost has felt lost for a long time. I feel for you everyday and think about your situation often. It is hard when the fog has set in and the road muddy.

[lost18]

Thanks guys as always.

"So I see this as speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You have had connections, movies, lunch, laughter, shared stories, and the present the other day. But you are also right, no physical connection. So guys need sex to feel close. Girls need intimacy to want to have sex. It is a catch 22. Perhaps look at how you are enabling this behavior and how to change the dynamic."

Spot on Mahhhty, fear is definitely holding me back...fear of what rejection? I'm already being rejected.

I have already decided that I'm not going to confront him until after we get back from up North. My sister suggested (since I've waited this long) to wait until after his surgery. The problem with that is I have no idea how long that is going to take. There doesn't seem to be any hurry on the other side for him to "get fixed" and if it takes another year I'm not sure I'm willing to continue like this that much longer.

I definitely have some questions for my coach, hopefully I will have some alone time tomorrow to organize my thoughts to get the most out of this session.

On a different note, I talked to someone today about my teaching certification and got started applying for some positions for next year. There are 2 I'm interested in but I need a Microsoft Certification....but it is not specific as to which one, MCP? Even the person I talked to wasn't sure...

I also downloaded a new audio book to learn to speak Spanish! I took French in HS and college but when you don't use it, you lose it.

I'm also thinking about getting a personal trainer for a month or so, to help get me motivated and more consistent, and I need to incorporate some strength training. I'll have to check out the cost before making any decisions.

[Bob723]

Morning Lost... I reordered your sentences to respond better.

You're both right though, I will add that to my list of questions for my next session with my DB coach. I've been confused because DB says NOT to confront, bring up R talk etc. and that I should be acting as if.

I think you have to understand what the DB coach says. I also think your explanation of DB'ing is perhaps only partly right. DB'ing is not the idea to NOT confront the other person. It is about doing what works and doing 180s. That is my perspective. I think the no confrontation piece is only if you are the pursuer while implementing LRT.

Would I feel better if I confronted him? Maybe initially but not sure about the long run. Although I'm losing hope that there will be any change (my sister thinks for something life altering has to happen for him) I at this point still want to save my marriage.

This kind of gets me a little funky. I can see my W in this sentence. Perhaps she did everything you are doing, but I never responded just as he is not responding. Once you drop a bomb, if he does want to save the R, he will go through this life changing time (as I have). It wasn't my W's words that got me, it was her actions to get rid of me. I caution you to not fall into that trap or be so incredibly upset with him (about what you think is going on, b/c honestly you don't know what is happening right now) that you can never reconcile.

Hello Lost,

I still think about you often, sorry I haven't posted in a while!

I feel I am all caught up on your situation and I can understand why you feel the way you do. When you have had your soul torn, which you have, it affects your entire life. It causes you to have a depressed spirit. The trauma of a broken spirit is very real.

It looks like you've been getting some sound advice, especially from our friend mahhhty. My W didn't confront me regarding things that were bothering her. What woke me up? If you recall, her leaving and filing for D the next day. That was 7 months ago today.

So, if you do want to save your M, don't fall into the same trap. Confront your H. I know you can do it.

I'll dedicate a prayer to you tonight.

*Hugs*

Bob

[lost18]

I had my second coaching session today. I asked her about confronting, and she asked what I was hoping to get out of it and if I think I would. My answer is I probably would not get what I wanted so confronting H is on the back burner for now.

She did give me some ideas about the texting, because I can't confirm anything, that I could address it in a way to let him know my boundary. "I really hope you're not texting...."

She gave me some other things to do as well, my sister thinks it's getting pathetic at this point, but does agree that it's hard to resist someone who is really warm.

We'll see what happens in the long run.

[lost18]

DB Coach told me to keep a journal of the positives with date, she said it helps not dwell on the negatives.

Now I'm convinced he goes in "his" room at night and texts...at least he's not doing it in front of me...

Maybe this positivity journal will help me not dwell on all the BS in my mind....sigh

[overcom]

Hi lost. How's everything? How are you doing ?

[lost18]

I'm hanging in depress, thanks for checking. I know you're feeling down and I'll try to stop by your thread tomorrow to check on you.

Quick rundown: No softball on Friday, D13 & H were in the pool and I was hanging out there with them and then we all went to dinner.

Saturday D13 and I left in the morning for an overnight tournament, H and I shared some texts, including some joking ones. (I have issues due to lack of detachment of what he does with all his time alone..:()

Sunday D13's team lost early, H texted me to see how they did and asked if we were on our way home. Said he was going on the boat and to call when we got home and he would pick us up. Tons of people on the water, SIL & BIL and family and lots of friends. Got out of the water about sunset and went to dinner. I ended up grabbing his phone off the boat, when we were leaving the marina he didn't ask for it so I probably could have kept it all night (I don't have his password to see anything on it) but when I got to the restaurant I brought it in and gave it to him (pat myself on the back :))

Today was a lazy day, thought about going to a Blues festival but just didn't feel like it. Did take D13 to meet her friends for a movie while I did a little shopping.

I do "feel" he was texting somebody inappropriate (inappropriate to me, he thinks because he told me he wants a D it's ok, at least that's what he tells himself, his hiding it kind of shows he doesn't really believe that). Trying not to let it affect me, I can't control him.

Time for bed, work tomorrow...

[overcom]

Hang in there too. This is some really hard situation we are going thru. I just want it to end already.
You had a busy weekend at least it kept you busy. For us it was boring nothing exciting.

[lost18]

I've been keeping a positivity journal the past few days (HW from DB coach). It seems to help as I don't focus solely on the negative. Tonight, after focusing on his phone activity too much as usual, I took time to see what positive interactions I might add to my journal. Nothing noteworthy today, but if I'm going to continue this way I might as well look for the positives.

A little over a month before I go on vacation and get some much needed time away from H. Not to mention I really love going "home."

I really need to work on overcoming my poor body image...that is not going to be easy since I've been living with it for 45 years. There is a lot more to this but again, it's time for bed.

[mahhhty]

Hey Lost... there is a lot of stuff in here, since my last visit. Did you ever get that PT?

[RAI]

Losty,

DB Coach told me to keep a journal of the positives with date, she said it helps not dwell on the negatives.

Now I'm convinced he goes in "his" room at night and texts...at least he's not doing it in front of me...

Maybe this positivity journal will help me not dwell on all the BS in my mind....sigh

I did check my WW's texting record yesterday, but only because my L instructed me to keep track of things. I did not check whether she continued to text OM throughout the Bar-Mitzvah weekend - a no-no on sabbath - because it would only have aggravated me more. Even better, I did not perseverate over her texting record for the rest of the day. I just got back to what I was doing.

I am not hijacking your thread to update my sitch. I am only mentioning the above to remind you that we have to stop obsessing about what WS is doing. If you check out my last few posts, you will see that I have *a lot* of work to do in that department. (Physician, heal thyself!). We clearly have too much time on our hands if we can devote some of it to what our crazy a-- S is doing. Nevertheless, I support you and wanted to encourage you.

I love the idea of positivity journal. I have been toying with a gratitude journal. I have not yet started it. Kudos to you.

Hang in there,

RAI

[lost18]

Well, H got word that he is finally approved for surgery. It is scheduled for Friday the 5th. For some reason I got all twisted up like...oh crap, it's all coming to an end. Had an appt with my IC and she said I was getting all worked up about nothing...

Well, this morning H asked if I had time to talk. His boss overseas had emailed him about a job and asked if he was interested. Of course he has to recover and get cleared.

Then the big stuff, "we need to talk about what's going on with us." If you remember I asked you for a divorce. I did ok on the DB stuff for some of it, not so good on others. He hasn't changed his mind, "isn't in love with me anymore" He has been texting OP but he says nobody special.

I wish I could remember everything that was said. I did say one of my biggest regrets was not making him feel loved and wanted because I did. Talked about looking back at the last 18 years and some of our(my) pitfalls. He said the last 6 years being away he drifted away from me.

Agreed that we get along and have fun, but he's looking at that as more of a friendship but thinks it's a good thing.

I guess he's finally ready to tell the girls. Doesn't want to go through lawyers, he is going to make sure we are taken care of, he cares for my well-being and of course his kids. He actually isn't sure filing D is the best thing to do. Financially with taxes, says I wouldn't be able to afford the house (of course I responded that he would have to support me legally) I wouldn't have insurance.

I did say that I accept it is what he wants, but it is not what I want and it makes me sad that he can't see potential.

After the conversation was pretty much over i was in tears and asked him for hug (I just really needed a hug) and he was kid of upset, said he thought I'd be further along than this. He said the same thing last July. We talked some more about

H is home...more later

[mahhhty]

I am so so sorry that you ended up here. I am sure the trip overseas had something to do with it.

"I guess he's finally ready to tell the girls. Doesn't want to go through lawyers, he is going to make sure we are taken care of, he cares for my well-being and of course his kids. He actually isn't sure filing D is the best thing to do. Financially with taxes, says I wouldn't be able to afford the house (of course I responded that he would have to support me legally) I wouldn't have insurance."

You have to pick yourself up now. For you and the girls most of all. He is going to say anything to let you down easy, but going through the process is not easy for anyone in any situation.

Don't you DARE go down my road and take the blame. Love is a flower that two people have to choose to water and nurture.

(((lost)))

[lost18]

I'm just feeling very alone. Although I knew this was coming I was hoping it wouldn't. Telling the kids will make it even more real.

I need to figure out how to let go, I'm just not sure how. Why do I want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me?

I do think I'm going to ask him to go see some sort of counselor before we tell the kids. He may not agree to it but I think it would be a good thing.

Does anybody have any advice on not divorcing legally? pros and cons?

Obviously I'm not as crushed as I was with the original B but I'm still pretty crushed, just want to curl up in a ball and cry myself to sleep.

[RAI]

Losty,

We all want to curl up and hide sometime. I'm sorry you are going through this.

(((lost18)))

RAI

[mahhhty]

In my situation, I tried to reason time after time. I tried to explain the idea that we couldn't have imagined a year ago being where we were, so how can we imagine what it would be like in another year if we worked on it. This only came across to her as disagreeing with the path she laid out. That path she decided on, in her bubble by herself. So my advice is don't do that. Perhaps ask a single question phrased very carefully....

H - You have obviously thought about this. I totally agree that our marriage is completely unsatisfying. This decision to divorce rather than work on ourselves and our marriage is not a course of action that I condone or agree with. It will come out the expense of our family, everything we know and the relationships we have with our children. However, I don't want to continue to live without a partner. As divorce decisions are purely unilateral in nature, I ask is there anything you believe we could do to work on ourselves and our marriage?

[mahhhty]

Of course you will have to do this 150% as a business transaction and not an emotional plea.

[Bob723]

Hello Lost,

I'm not sure I know what to advise. Hmmm....I'll have to think about it.

How are you feeling today? Any better at all?

We are all here for you!

{{{{{Lost}}}}}

Bob

[PigPen]

Sorry lost, sending you a great big hug.

And another one.

[mahhhty]

Lost - how are you holding up? has anything changed?

[lost18]

Thanks for checking on me. No changes, my car was finally ready yesterday and we went to pick it up and went to lunch...his idea as usual.

Played softball last night, went out with some of my team after and drove by my SIL & BIL's house on my way home, they were outside so I stopped and had a beer with them (I do this on occasion, not new).

This morning I cleaned the house a bit, he asked me for help with with something he was doing in "his" trailer, I helped him (honestly, a little begrudgingly). Then I decided to take off. A friend invited me to go to the beach with her and her friend. I packed up and went...left about noon, got back about 6. We went and had an early dinner and a few drinks.

I have so much in my head right now, I need to try to figure out where to go from here and how I want to handle the next few months. I need to get my thoughts together soon....

Sorry I haven't been around you threads lately, I'll try to get my head together and come visit.

[overcom]

omg the texting drives me nuts. lol...

im 35 and have a hard time maintaining my body too. maybe aerobics class or zumba? idk just a thought.

i think a vacation is a really good idea. i really dont have any where to travel to since everyone is already here. lol but it will give you some time away and help clear your mind a little bit...

[lost18]

This morning I went for a run(walk/run) and had lots of thoughts going thru my head, not good ones for the most part. Two things keep rolling in my mind, I want to know I did the best I could do to try to save my marriage and I don't want to be bitter and resentful toward him the rest of my life. I am becoming bitter and resentful, not because he wants a divorce, but because the way he has/is handling it. For me, I need to work thru this because I see the future (my mom) as a bitter ex-wife and it isn't pretty.

Pretty low key day other than that. Kept to myself for the most part. H spent most of the day on the couch watching TV, I did some cleaning, surfed the net and watched tv in my room. Later, I went to the store and did not ask him if he needed/wanted anything like I usually do. Made homemade mac n cheese for dinner and grilled burgers. I had been asking him to grill in the past but today I did it, pretty well I might add! (I did have to ask him to start the grill because it wasn't working). I'm not going to lie, I was hoping he'd offer to grill but he didn't.

I work mon-thurs this week and his surgery is scheduled for Friday. I am going to try to schedule a coaching session, it's just hard to have any private time....

[mahhhty]

Girl. Keep doing all those things, follow sandi's rules to a T. You are now in LRT I believe.

As for this....
I am becoming bitter and resentful, not because he wants a divorce, but because the way he has/is handling it. For me, I need to work thru this because I see the future (my mom) as a bitter ex-wife and it isn't pretty.

I believe you won't be that person bc you recognized it already! You are already heightened to look for that condition.

[Cristy]

Lost18,

I know it can be challenging to find time to speak freely and privately with your DB Coach. Please call me so we can schedule something that will work for you.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[lost18]

I think I forgot to mention that he has admitted to texting other women. Said nothing serious because how could it be. I feel like he was trying to justify his actions because "he doesn't do it in front of us, goes out in the garage when he gets a text." He also made a comment about "when I wasn't working much." I reinforced how disrespectful it was to do that in our home period. Also said he would like to start dating....


Not sure how to be in LRT when we live together and I'm going to have to help him through surgery and recovery. Have been quieter but trying not to be cold...not easy.

[mahhhty]

Have you thought about setting the boundary and getting him out of the house?

[Zues126]

Yeah lost, if I were in your place I'd go one of two directions.

1. Maintain status quo for a specified period of time in my mind, like 3-6 months...but be much more detached and dark. Live as if you were legally separated. GAL like crazy. No more family time. And be prepared to say "I'm not willing to live in an open marriage, I wanted a committed relationship but it's clear you don't, I'll respect your wishes but ask that you respect my need for distance" and just cut it off for good. I wouldn't feel responsible for his surgery, let his text buddies figure that out. I'm only reading this and I'm sick of the cake eating.

2. Decide that you're ready to file a separation and potentially secure your own place. It wouldn't have to be a D, and you could still remain committed to your M in the sense of DBing and keeping the road home smooth...like Sunny (almost used her other name, hehe). She is living separated with STYLE. It can be done. Yes, your H may go buck wild, get nasty, etc, etc...but maybe in a year or two he'll realize you're not playing. Or maybe you can even turn the S into a D in 6 months and let him shape up or ship out. But I don't hate this idea.

One thing I'd encourage you to do is to watch the video I keep raving about. It really speaks to the question: Should I be the noble virtuous person that tries to find meaning in a bad M? At least it did for me (in the third video).

I don't believe in D under almost any circumstance...physical danger is almost the only thing...so personally I think I'd commit to another period of time and go much darker...but each of us has to find their own way.

What does your DB coach say?

Good luck!

[lost18]

Hey guys, I have been doing tons of thinking of how I want to move forward. As far as his surgery I have to do what I feel is right, in spite of his selfish, callous behavior. I could tell him to call his sister but it just isn't who I am.

I think option 1 is what I'm thinking at the moment, at least for 2-3 months. It is hard to cut family time completely, tonight for example, I cooked dinner, the girls set the table and we all ate and talked. Mostly D16, but really dinner is the only time she talks, other than that she is holed up in her cave (bedroom) or with friends. So, just trying not to engage directly with him too much.

Honestly, I don't see much hope for my M, so it will just be navigating through to the other side, and yes whatever happens I'll do my best not to slam the door to possible reconciliation later down the road but I almost feel like I need to give up hope in order to focus on me.

So after his surgery, and vacation, and hopefully securing a permanent job, in 2-3 months I will be letting him know that it is time for him to find his own place...

Until then, stay as dark as possible while living together and GAL...

[Maybell]

That sounds like a reasonable plan. In the scheme of things 2-3 months isn't that long, and it gives you time to get your ducks in a row. I'm sorry you've had this long, dragged out experience. But you sound really great. What doesn't kill us...?

[overcom]

I'm here for you lost. Anytime you wanna vent. I will pray for you tonight. Hugs

[mahhhty]

Lost - I feel like your response is definitely reasonable and most likely makes the most sense. I do see it as a gradual progression in which you draw some future boundary. But I am going to play devil's advocate.... I don't think that is a 180, nor do I think it will help you get what you want. Do you really want to live in this environment for 2-3 months? I'm just trying to help you think of both sides.

[lost18]

You're right Mahhhty, it probably isn't much of a 180 and no I don't want to live like this at all anymore. With that being said I think it's the best option for me right now. I'm leaving in a month to go North, 2-3 weeks later he will be there as well.

I'm not even sure I'm doing this whole LRT right, maybe I'm being too cold. This morning he asked me about D13's Ipad (The girls have been looking for it for 2 days and can't find it, I was the last one to have it). I was probably snappy with him in my reply. "I'm aware, it has to be in the house somewhere."

Anyway, I got home from work tonight, he left shortly after without saying anything to anybody. (taste of my own medicine, although I almost always tell the girls when I'm leaving.) D13 eventually called him and he is at his sisters. The only people that I know of that know he told me he wanted a D. Of course now I'm wondering if he is asking her to take him to his surgery and maybe even making plans to find a place to live. Who knows...I'm getting sick of wondering what is next, so in that regard I wish I was ready to set the boundary of him leaving...but I'm not, and the financial aspect of it is a big part.

I keep reading success stories and advice from the boards and also listening to podcasts and reading other books, I wonder if I should just stop because I really don't see any chance at all for him to ever want to work on our M again. Maybe doing all of that is just continuing to give me false hope when really I just need to let go and move on. *sigh*

[mahhhty]

I keep reading success stories and advice from the boards and also listening to podcasts and reading other books, I wonder if I should just stop because I really don't see any chance at all for him to ever want to work on our M again. Maybe doing all of that is just continuing to give me false hope when really I just need to let go and move on. *sigh*

Bah Humbug! You are in a jam, but I know you don't mean this. You don't have to know how each step will work or what the result has to be. The steps come and go, some are up and some are down. But with your chin high you can see where you are headed.

There is no possible way in the universe, that you can figure out what the future has in store for you. You are in control of your future. People reconcile after months, days, and years, yes years. Be true to yourself and the process.

Keep reading until you have had your fill, but don't you dare think that there is a magical pill that will fix this. The path of least resistance DOES NOT EXIST. It will get worse before it gets better. However, by going through it you will be stronger and a better person, as long as you choose to continue to learn.

My money is on Lost bc she is her, and her is compassionate, thoughtful & caring!

[mahhhty]

Lost - how are you doing?

[mahhhty]

Lost - How about an update? I hope you are doing well. (((lost)))

[lost18]

Not much to update, haven't been on the computer much.

H had surgery a week ago and is still in a lot of pain. He hasn't asked me for much help and I have not offered but do help him if he asks.

Have been keeping to myself for the most part, just hanging out in my room reading or watching tv when I'm home. Still friendly, just not spending a lot of time around him.

D13 had a tournament this past weekend and a camp Mon-Thurs mornings of this week so have spent some time away from the house, not GALing much tho.

I ended up in the ER on Saturday...my arm was red and extremely swollen from a bug bite. Several people thought it might have been a brown recluse bite. I'm on antibiotics for that which make me feel a little sick and it was pretty painful the first few days which is part of the reason I've been laying low. I know that is not doing much for my DB efforts but it is what it is.

Thanks for checking on me, I promise I will come around and check on everybody soon.

[Bob723]

Hi Lost,

Wow, I hope you feel better soon. Just thought I'd check in to see how you are. I haven't been online much lately, either.

Please try to hang in there!

Your friend,

Bob

[mahhhty]

Lost - Your update is more action based on things you did and haven't done. What about you? How are you doing with all of this?

[RAI]

Hi Losty,

Just popped in to send you a smile

RAI

[lost18]

How am I doing? I'm really not sure, sometimes I'm fine, other times I'm pissed, confused, angry, sad, depressed, still in denial, scared, hopeless, trying to hold on to hope. Mad at myself that I waited to long to try to fix my M, mad at myself for still wanting to try to make it work and wanting to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me....wishing he would just go but not wanting him to...

thanks for checking in on me guys. I haven't really been up for being on here much lately....

[PigPen]

Sending you a big hug Lost.

It sounds like your days are like most of us around here, somewhere between experiencing every possible emotion without warning or provocation of when they're going to come next. I've described the LBS's experience as bi - polar in it's truest form.

I never know when a single thought, memory, commercial, line in a book, or any other stimulus is going to either make me cry, or laugh out loud. I literally walked away from a full cart full of groceries last week and went out into my truck and cried. And I used to protect people's lives for a living!

Keep breathing. Keep working the process. And like all of us, keep having faith that one day we'll wake up feeling just a little bit better.

Big hug,

PP

[mahhhty]

How am I doing? I'm really not sure, sometimes I'm fine, other times I'm pissed, confused, angry, sad, depressed, still in denial, scared, hopeless, trying to hold on to hope. Mad at myself that I waited to long to try to fix my M, mad at myself for still wanting to try to make it work and wanting to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me....wishing he would just go but not wanting him to...

I'm sorry you are in this stage. Its a crappy place to be. You do have the skills to pull yourself through, find solace in the fact that you have made progress. Continue to act as if. A question I wished I asked was "What needs to happen to rebuild our marriage and relationship?" Of course this needs to be delivered eloquently.

Have you talked to your coach?

((((lost))))

[mahhhty]

I'm dying over here. How about an update? Where is Lost? How is she? What is she up too?

[lost18]

Sorry, not much to update I guess. I'm not doing too good emotionally right now. I know I need to let go and move on but I'm really struggling. The best advice my coach gave me was to "be a cat, not a puppy!" I liked that....

I am starting to get more angry...again with how he has handled this (is handling this). Of course that does involve a lot of mind reading. He seems to be happy....

I guess I'm just trying to sort some things out, I don't want to give up on my marriage but he did that a long time ago. If I could figure out how to detach while he is still living here that would help. I also spend a lot of time asking why and how which is not helpful.

It is a bit more than a week before I go on vacation and will have some time away from him. I need to get my head on straight and figure out my plan moving forward. I guess, I haven't done a great job of DBing in hind sight...I've been pretty inconsistent and not enough GALing...

I know this post is a downer, like I said I've been struggling emotionally especially over the past few days....

[RAI]

Hi losty,

It seems like we are in a pretty similar place right now. I was away to take care of my mother. As difficult as that was, I was quite busy, felt very useful to my family, and it was sort of a respite from all the insanity I have to deal with at home. Now that I am back home, all the negative emotions are resurfacing. The anger is definitely back. Just when I thought I was detaching...

We all have our days (weeks or months) where we struggle emotionally. It is ok. Just know that you are not alone in these struggles.

{{{Lost}}}

I think the problem is that it is sometimes easier to complain and talk about our emotions than it is to take concrete steps to improve out sitch. I know this because my sister just berated me on the phone 5 minutes ago for doing exactly that. I see a lot of analysis paralysis and looking at your past in your last post. I think we both need to accept (again!) that we can't change our S and that we have force ourselves to look to the future, no matter how daunting it is. Forget the hindsight: you can't drive a car forward if you are looking in the rear-view mirror the whole time.

Truly sorry you are going through this.

RAI

[mahhhty]

It is great to hear from you. I am sorry you are struggling. I know how that feels. I had all of this, the anger, the how's, the why's. Honestly, I still carry those with me today. Posting more will help, please do not get lost in your situation and not remember the path forward. You know what it is.... Do what works. Have a plan. Analyze yourself, and when things don't work try something different. 180s. GAL. STFU.

The best advice my coach gave me was to "be a cat, not a puppy!" I liked that....

This is good advice. And very similar to acting As If.

I am starting to get more angry...again with how he has handled this (is handling this). Of course that does involve a lot of mind reading. He seems to be happy....

You don't know what he is. Happy. Sad. Anything. Nor does it matter. He is not the person you married. Your best friend needs to be the Serenity Prayer.... God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference.

You can change this. But you need to take the first step, and most of the steps after that. He will not help you. He is not your husband. He is someone else that you don't fully know or understand.

I guess I'm just trying to sort some things out, I don't want to give up on my marriage but he did that a long time ago. If I could figure out how to detach while he is still living here that would help. I also spend a lot of time asking why and how which is not helpful.

These things are not helpful, but should be expected. When you are feeling like [censored] ask yourself what you can do to be happier... then do it! You need to ask yourself if you want to save your marriage, and if you do.... then buckle up and take the steps necessary. You will need to take the steps by yourself, and let go from what he is or isn't doing.

This is your journey. Take it where you want to go.

I believe attacking this is a 180 for you. I'm not saying to attack divorce but to attack the situation. Any thought to confronting him with something like this.....
"H - You have obviously thought about this. I totally agree that our marriage is completely unsatisfying. This decision to divorce rather than work on ourselves and our marriage is not a course of action that I condone or agree with. It will come at the expense of our family, everything we know and the relationships we have with our children. However, I don't want to continue to live without a partner. As divorce decisions are purely unilateral in nature, I ask is there anything you believe we could do to work on ourselves and our marriage?"

[lost18]

Feeling down today, going to go with it and start fresh tomorrow.

Had a conversation with H last night, I never plan these things and therefore they are never the best DB conversations. He was out on the lanai texting and I'm just so sick of everything, I went out there and asked him "do you really think it's ok for you to be out here texting your girlfriends?" I know...not the best approach. He chuckled and said "is that what you think I'm doing?"

It did lead to a conversation. So, hard to remember everything that was said but here are some key points.

-he woke up one day and it was like all the feelings he had for me left his body (oct 2013)
-said he used to talk to himself because of me and my ups and downs
-he admits that he hasn't done everything that could be done to fix our M but says neither have I (which I agreed with)
-he has some bitterness and resentment toward me still
-living here has been hard on him too
-he knows the girls are going to be crushed and that their lives will be changed forever
-he thinks our marriage has been rocky from the start (I agree) and it's too late to fix (I obviously disagree)
-said this is his house, he pays for it so why shouldn't he be able to stay here while he heals

-He said this "If I were to say I'm sorry let's reconcile what would you say?" I said it's not that easy. He said yes or no, I said yes. I just don't thinks he sees any possibility for him to "be in love" with me again.

I thought it was strange that he was taking off in the truck the past few mornings, apparently he worked a deal and got a place. He said it's a nasty, 1B/1B with no AC and needs a lot of work. I guess he is going to do the work and live rent free as long as he wants. I asked him when he was planning on telling me, he said when he was ready and didn't think I needed to know?!?!? WTF

We talked about splitting assets, I said several times this is not a conversation that I want to be having because D is not what I want. We both agree that our place up North is going to be our biggest issue because neither of want to give it up. Said he's ok with sharing it but his friends told him it was a bad idea and he should make a clean break. Or he would keep the house here to which I replied "and the kids?" He said he would never take the kids away from me, so I said oh so we would go live in some crappy apartment to which he replied exactly, I wouldn't do that to my girls. Obviously there was much more than that but the details don't really matter too much.

I have less than a week until I'm out of here and will be gone this weekend to a tournament with D13. Time to refresh.

"H - You have obviously thought about this. I totally agree that our marriage is completely unsatisfying. This decision to divorce rather than work on ourselves and our marriage is not a course of action that I condone or agree with. It will come at the expense of our family, everything we know and the relationships we have with our children. However, I don't want to continue to live without a partner. As divorce decisions are purely unilateral in nature, I ask is there anything you believe we could do to work on ourselves and our marriage?"

I think I am going to take your advice about this Mahhhty, but I am going to tweak it just a little and send it in email. I'll put it up here before I send it, going to wait a couple of weeks tho so I can clear my head first, re-read DR and try to start with a beginners mind. I wish he could..

Any advice, words of wisdom please share...

[lost18]

I did tell him that I don't want to be bitter and resentful toward him but I am feeling that way, not because he wants a divorce but because of the way he has handled/is handling it.

I also said it would be easier for me if he did go back to Afghanistan because we live in a small town and I'm not ready to see him out with somebody else. (I know that is selfish) He said he wouldn't have a problem seeing me out with someone....

I asked him if his mom knew, he said he told her "last year" and she wasn't surprised, saw it coming for years. I responded that it pissed me off that people think divorce is ok, that it's the answer....

[RAI]

Your H told you a lot, but did he tell you anything you did not know or feel in your heart already? Did it make you feel better to hear it? I am going to guess the answer was "no" on both parts.

Losty, why are you putting yourself through this torture? It makes you feel worse and does not advance your interests in the least. Do you want to look back at yourself in 20 years and see how miserable you looked? Do you need to place blame on your H for making you miserable? Or do you want to start detaching and enjoying your life - even in the current mess that it seems to be in - and have fond memories of how strong you became, how you rose to the challenge, despite what your H is doing. Don't give your H the power to make you miserable. Those R talks never satisfy us the way we hope they will because our Ss simply do not feel the way we do.

We all break the DB rules - I found myself going through the trash the other day - literally (and I consider this less snooping - pathetic, I know). But in having the R talks, you gave your H much more info about you than he needs or can handle right now. Unattractive info, to boot. I promise, I am not judging you. I just feel bad, because it does not help your sitch. You told him you do not believe D is the right thing. Now leave it alone. The more you tell him that (and I swear I told my W the same thing too many times) the more you will sound pursuing, clingy, and controlling. I hope you are not upset at me for saying all this.

Please stop by the 5K running thread. You need to get out of your funk.

I know Mahhhty has been a good friend to you and has counseled you well, thus far. Mahhhty, am I off the mark here? Your guidance would be appreciated.

RAI

[mahhhty]

I just read about Squiggy and I was super excited to see your post. Unfortunately, it wasn't what I was hoping to read about. Sorry girl.

To RAI's point I think when people like us (LBH S) go into relationship we are emotionally fueled and often clingy, we take own too much blame, and we don't implement the correct behavior to improve our chances. From that perspective your post did align with some of those behaviors.

However, honestly I think you needed to do something. I don't think it was the best interaction, but I don't think it was the worst either.

But in regards to this "If I were to say I'm sorry let's reconcile what would you say?" I said it's not that easy. He said yes or no, I said yes. I just don't thinks he sees any possibility for him to "be in love" with me again." I wouldn't fight your stance of what you believe. But I wouldn't openly admit it either. You need to VALIDATE him and suggest the idea that it is possible. Do not plead, beg, etc.

As for the email to him... I suggest writing it down on paper for him to find. Also, use this quote somewhere.... You could state how you both have neglected your relationship and that you believe the "Grass is not greener on the other side, it is greener where it is watered"

[mahhhty]

Lost I just got the DB Newsletter email. I think it's a perfect reinforcement for you. You are at the crossroad it describes.

Hi,

The unthinkable happened.

Your spouse told you that he or she wants out. What you do next can have a profound impact on whether or not your marriage survives.

And unfortunately, doing what comes naturally can create a natural disaster- the ending of your marriage. That's because the most logical things to do when your spouse wants out is also the most ineffective and destructive.

In fact, if you continue doing these 3 things, you will inadvertently make matters worse. Want to know what they are?


1. Beg, plead and cry.

Although it's completely understandable how you would feel devastated by the news, when you beg, plead and cry, you push your spouse in the opposite direction.

All he or she wants to do is get away from you. Your spouse feels pressured, cornered and trapped. Plus, you appear to be desperate, which isn't very attractive. For all these reasons, you must stop this behavior.

2. Reason and debate.

Your spouse isn't making any sense. He or she has completely forgotten any good times you've had together. Your spouse is unhappy and you are to blame. Or so it seems.

It's tempting to try to reason or debate with your partner, but doing so will only force him or her to take a stronger stand to prove the point.

You might also want to send articles that capture what is happening in your marriage and offer new insight. Don't bother. It will only annoy your spouse. You have to stop persuading him or her to be more open-minded.

3. Make promises about the future.

Chances are, you want your spouse to know that you can change; you can truly make an effort to become the person your spouse has been wanting you to be.

Don't bother.

Right now your spouse isn't open to hearing what he or she thinks are empty promises. Plus, your spouse will feel manipulated, believing you would make changes to lure him or her back into the fold and slip back into your old ways as soon as that would happen.

Additionally, your spouse will get angry because he or she will be thinking, "Where were you when I needed you? This is too little, too late."

If any of this sounds familiar to you, it means that you have found yourself doing things that have backfired. That's completely understandable.

It's time to reverse the momentum. It's time to do the counter-intuitive things that bring you and your spouse closer. If you haven't already, you need to start today.

Warmly,

Michele

[lost18]

Just a quick note to thank you guys as usual. Was out of town with D13 for a tournament this weekend so haven't had a chance to respond but have read and re-read your posts.

I'm kicking myself for starting that conversation, I wasn't prepared and certainly did not handle it well. Very little if any validating, but did try to justify myself...ugh. Nothing I can do about it now.

I have been reading labug's thread from the beginning. It took her 2.5 years to R and much of that time with no contact. She did a lot of self-reflection and growing. I've definitely done some self-reflecting but have a lot more growing.

I'm leaving in 2 days and will not have continuous access to internet/computer so may not post too much but will be reading. It's time for a new thread and a fresh start anyway.

[mahhhty]

Good luck and have fun!

[RAI]

Losty? You there? Just checking in.

RAI

[mahhhty]

Vacation has to be over by now? If not, I need a vacation like that.

[mahhhty]

Vacation has to be over by now? If not, I need a vacation like that.

[mahhhty]

How about a quick post?

[job]

As Cadet would say, please start a new thread.

[lost18]

Will be home tomorrow and will start a new thread soon!!

[mahhhty]

LOST! This is the longest vacation ever! Enjoy.

[job]

Please start a new thread. You have 10 postings over the 100 posting limit!