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job #2561153 04/26/15 05:23 PM
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Hiya!

I wanted to chime in from my own perspective as a former MLCer.

Originally Posted By: mirage
2) Feels there is something wrong, but can't quite put their finger on it. Will show a little clarity ocassionally but still basically lost.


Yep...that was me. Just had the niggling feeling that something was off, but couldn't or wasn't able to put a finger on as to why something was wrong with me.

Job hit the bull's eye here:

They fear rejection and being judged by others.

Big time!!! B-I-G time. I hated having 1,200 eyeballs pointed in my direction dissecting every movement I made. This was one of the reasons why I nearly did not go on a family vacation with Ms. Wonka and her family at Martha's Vineyard during the height of my own MLC.

When the MLCer speaks to you, they're trying to figure out WTH happened to them. Sometimes they'll be all over the map with their thought process as they try to sort themselves out at the coming out of the tunnel stage. Can't really blame them at all for their reference point is hazy at best.

It is during this stage that it is extremely critical that you be very patient and gentle with the MLCer coming out of the tunnel. You don't want to spook them with judgments and why's or "how could you's"!

It takes a LONG, LONG time before they're able to see things clearly and come to terms with what happened. For me, I think it took me about two years to fully understand my own MLC and accept that part of my journey. It was a part of my life story. Doesn't mean that there's right or wrong to the story.



Last edited by Wonka; 04/26/15 05:28 PM.
Wonka #2561188 04/26/15 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: job
BTW, they questions themselves throughout the process...but what they do w/the answers...well, they attempt to shut off the thinking process by continuing on w/the replay activities or finding things to keep their minds focused on that particular thing. Being alone or at night is the worse time for them because that is when the thought processes go into over drive for them.
This is it! Seems like my H is doing exactly this, shutting off the thinking process and continuing with replay activities. And this crazy woman he got close to recently, is for keeping his mind distracted when he is alone.

LT, I’m glad I stopped by you thread. There is so much good information. I agree with others, you are doing great.


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
BD: 06/12
S: 06/12 - H works in another state
BrightFuture #2561196 04/26/15 08:30 PM
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I don't mind the hijack as these are all questions that we all have. When it happens a lot of good information comes out like has happened here. Its kind like a group hug happens where everyone gets a bit of satisfaction out of it.


Twisting on Life's Rope
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Lifes Twists #2561327 04/27/15 03:42 AM
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A good conversation to be sure. It can be helpful to get the thoughts out, and I agree with you LT, it's easier to see other people's situations than one's own. That was one of the crazy parts back then. Watching the ex give marital advice to others while having affairs and living in her crazy head. One of the really interesting things at the time was the inability to be alone. It was crazy watching all the frenetic energy being put into not being alone and "living the good life." It all seemed like a big distraction from my POV. A duality of watching other's lives while destroying her own. It was odd to be sure.

And the conversations over the years. Sheesh. Talk about a jumble of mixed up hodge podge of junk. It was like watching a sewer clear itself out after a storm.

Could have just as easily been me, I'm sure. I have a deep compassion for the pain I saw. It's one reason I chose not to retaliate tit for tat. The relationship was over long before I saw the writing on the wall, and I knew it at the time I became aware.

Things began to change when I started standing up for the crazy. I did notice that. I noticed that she was soooooo angry, that her eyes literally changed when she would spew. Different colors and really big and dilated. Like a Jekyll and hyde sort of thing.

Years later, she hated that I called her by two different names. She eventually noticed that I referred to her by her formal name vs. the name I had always called her.

The funny part to me was watching her new H (OM) start to take on her anger as her's dissipated. Or rather transferred to him. In some ways, it was like she was working out her issues by transferring the to him or encouraging his own. Hard to say as I don't know either of them, but it's what it seems like.

All of that to say I wouldn't be in that head for all the rice in China. And it was obvious to see the thinking she was doing. The questioning of "why?" For all intents and purposes, she tried really hard to make it about me. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but she tried really hard after she left. She barely remembers half of that stuff in more recent conversations (year ago now?) And there's still the odd emails etc. that show up from time to time. Even that's changed come to think of it. Like she is becoming a person again. Which honestly was the only thing I could really hope for - that she'd become a whole person again vs. the fragmented wreck that left.

It's a bizarre trip to say the least. At least from where I saw it up close. One I wouldn't wish on anyone and I firmly believe they do need a friend that knows their past, at some point to finish their trip through la la land. I've seen her clumsily try a few things that have made me think that. <shrug> Who really knows though, right? smile

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
AJM #2561391 04/27/15 01:01 PM
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AJM,

I like commenting on others as well. It always seems more clear.

I have no relationship at all with my EXW. Occassionally I will have to e-mail something relevant about our children and I always take the high road as far as being neutral. The kids(2 adults) know that there relationship with their mother is on them. I don't always get neutral back, still some anger 5 + years later.

Yesterday, I was out enjoying myself playing tennis. My daughter went to her Great grandmothers house as they were cleaning it out as she was going to assisted living. Now her mother was there. Her mother(EXW) has not been in her grandmothers life for about 5 years since voicing her disapproval about her choices. EXW cut her out of her life at that time.

Anyhow, My daughter comes home with a box of pictures and such.

Me: What were you doing?
Daughter: Cleaning out Great Grandma's house
Me: I see you got some stuff

Daughter shows me pics of her mother when she was young and how identical they looked.

Daughter: Mom gave me this picture and said make sure you show this to your father.(our wedding picture)(It was always up at Great Grandmas house) (My daughter and I went there often, she was a wonderful loving person)

Me: (smile) a little odd huh!
Daughter: (Laughs) still strange Dad!

Mirage

mirage #2561607 04/27/15 10:07 PM
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What I really take away from all this is that until the MLCer can resolve their anger there is no chance of moving forward. I suspect most MLCers have had long issues with forgiving even before they entered this relationship with us. My ex held a grudge against her father the whole time we were together. I suspect I have now inherited this grudge. I don't believe they will ever get well unless they can work through this issue with themselves.


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Lifes Twists #2561813 04/28/15 01:51 PM
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Life,

I agree, the issues are deep rooted and so.....they take a long time to be wrestled with, if they are ever wrestled with. Sometimes the easier answer is to keep running. There are a lot of bright lights and shiny new things to keep the delusion going.

The good thing is if we do the work on the back end our life is better and therefore we make better father's, mother's, friends etc. The silver lining does exist.

Life, looking at your life as it stands now would you want it any other way?

Mirage

mirage #2562075 04/28/15 10:58 PM
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Yes, and that's what I am working on. I also could have done without her attempting suicide. That's a scar my girls will live with for a long time.


Twisting on Life's Rope
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D final 1-2015
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Lifes Twists #2562114 04/29/15 01:08 AM
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LT/Mirage, that's exactly why I post such things. So that others can see it and not feel so alienated.

For me, that was the hardest part. The feeling alienated. I did it to myself in many ways. And so to I was able to fix that area of my life. That was in my control.

And yeah, it continues for eons it seems. From what I've experienced, the end of a normal relationship ends with goodbye. With somebody like this...well, not so much. I suspect it has to do with addiction (addicted to something, not necessarily pharma products) and replacing that addiction. It feels that way sometimes. I think it also has a lot to do with missing a large chunk of their life due to the episode. I know watching mine, she seemed to shatter. Literally I described it as if she broke her self into a thousand pieces and was putting the pieces back together, but they didn't seem to fit quite right. Wipe it out, try again. Rinse. Repeat. Enter the OP and things got complicated while she was reforming. I think that caused a loss of a lot of memories due to rewriting them. Nobody wants to be the villain in their own story, right?

As you pointed out, mirage - would you want it any other way? I wouldn't. I love my life.

Like you LT, I would have preferred less damage to the kids. But at the same time, I know it could have been worse and I know that life is messy - I've spent a great deal of time and energy helping the kids to deal with what they saw. I don't regret a moment of it.

Can't stop it. Nothing you say or do will change what they do. Can't control it or fix it. And that's part of the point I think wink

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Lifes Twists #2562131 04/29/15 01:59 AM
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Life,

I don't tell many people this because it was/is a part of my life and people really don't need to know.

My only sibling, twin brother committed suicide. He left my two nephews without a father.

For me, it was the learning experience of a lifetime. I watched an individual who could not get negativity out of his mindset. What did I learn from that.....To be positive, spend the most time I could muster everyday being positive. Now I had to take a really sad thing and turn it around. It's made a difference in my life.

It's a talking point now with my nephews and my kids as well.

I'll never forget a lady who runs a non profit organization that supports kids who parents and siblings committed suicide. By the way we support this organization through a golf tournament we run in my brother's honor.

She said "Death should be a learning experience to the living, we may not understand why all the time but their are always lessons to be learned, we just need to look hard enough"

I don't mean to beat you over the head here, just asking you to look for perspective from all angles. I think the questions why? and Why not? are actually the same thing. Think about it.

Mirage

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