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Vanilla #2560591 04/24/15 03:22 PM
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Hi V.
I will likely answer this in two posts again - thanks for taking the time!!

Starting a business was a stretch for me, but it was 65% this:
The job that I had prior to that was well paying, an hour commute, and I was a person that never said no, which means I worked long days - went in early and stayed late. I really liked this job. At the time, I thought I was doing my best to provide for my wife and young children, but I was missing a lot of family time. I thought it was best and normal though (this is what my dad did and this is what I will do). W became increasingly resentful because of the time I was gone (to this day she still uses this against me - even though this is exactly how she is with her career now - *scorecard*). I saw the problem and I knew I had to make a change to save our family. I don't know if this was justified, but it worked for us. This was 11 years ago.

The other 35% for starting this business was for creative and freedom reasons.I never really made more money than when I was working for someone else though.

Starting my teaching job was way more out of my comfort zone though. I have learned (forced myself) to be very outgoing in my classes.

Thanks V - more later


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
Vanilla #2560712 04/24/15 09:40 PM
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Posts: 924
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What would it take to stop judging yourself? Where does it come from? When did you first notice it?

I think I have always judged myself. It has always been important to me to impress people with my work and hard work and tireless quantity of work. I have dialed that way back to what I consider near normal people levels, but sometimes I feel guilty that I don't do enough. Weird - huh? My first notice of this was a need to impress my parents (even though they were really not asking for it). I had to be independent and successful.

I was quite the failure to my parents when girlfriend and I, now W had an unexpected pregnancy before marriage. Quite the shocker - shook up their perfect world - oh the shame. We weren't kids, but weren't really ready for that either.

W & I survived and thrived, but I spent my 20s trying to prove my value.

It is interesting how much you can envision how I am in a room - people like talking to me about themselves - I usually throw in the (well thought out) question to further their story. When asked about myself or what I am up to, I tend to do the "oh you know - same old-same old" and on with their story.

I am reserved - which in many people minds, I mindread, that I am boring. I don't think that I am boring - I just don't share a lot.

Maybe I am just English wink

and now it seems that is how I am acting with W - just not sharing a lot.

These last few posts are the most I have talked about myself without really talking about my situation (which currently is just stagnant).

IC went well - I guess. It seems like we are talking about the same topics as I am here. I don't really see where the IC is going as I don't really have any strategies yet.

Thanks V!!


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
u-turn #2560723 04/24/15 10:16 PM
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U-turn thank you for posting your recent comments and to V for so artfully bringing them out in you. I feel so connected to your descriptions of yourself, your work, your challenges, from one introvert to another. And no it isn't just English...I'm here in Kiwiland thank you again! JB x

Last edited by JellyB; 04/24/15 10:16 PM.
JellyB #2560725 04/24/15 10:23 PM
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Funny you should say that - I was just reading yours and thinking the same.

But thought too long to beat you to the comment.

Thanks JB laugh


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
u-turn #2560728 04/24/15 10:51 PM
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The funny thing is...given what you have written I know the traps you set for yourself, around recognising how truely amazing you are! We are so practised at dimming our own light and letting others shine. Time for a change..I'm not sure how, but if you get a handle on it , let me know! Lol I'll keep plugging away my end.

Re the feeling of limbo, I think you start moving out of it when you start digging deep for why you are dimming your own light....I'm working on this, and well, quite frankly...it is a but a** ...but likely extremely worthwhile...

Hey till I see you at that next gathering and we can talk about ourselves to each other...not sure who would be listening, but it would be nice to see you there lol

JellyB #2560832 04/25/15 11:49 AM
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Jb and U, we have a gathering, right here and now.

So let's go back to the unanswered question U which you artfully sidestepped!

What would it take? wink

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/25/15 11:49 AM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2560855 04/25/15 01:18 PM
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Thanks V - you catch on to my avoidance pretty quickly. I am astounded by the wisdom on these boards.

When I don't have an answer - I tend to avoid the question.

I don't know the answer to this. I think my self-judgement is a problem, though for a good chunk of my life I thought this was good and what drove me to do great things.

It has been a big part of my depression though. I acknowledge this.

Teaching has helped me through this though. I teach technical classes (to the lowest 25% students) - I teach by encouraging students to take chances and make mistakes. I make mistakes in front of students (sometimes on purpose) to prove to them that it is ok - if we use the mistakes to improve. Sometimes I have a hard time allowing this in my life though.

I don't think it is too late for me, but for some reason putting my family back together is what I fall back on. My thoughts are that this is the first step to anything - I know I should drop that though.


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
u-turn #2561176 04/26/15 07:07 PM
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Nothing wrong with continuing to try to put your family back together. I'm trying the same thing - to put my marriage back together. Nothing wrong with the intent. However, it doesn't seem to be working. Looks to me like nothing but cheeseless tunnels. Where's the cheese? What do we need to do to advance our purpose. It's got to be something totally counterintuitive, as those are the things that actually seem to work.

BTW I had to start a new thread entitled "Continuing Limbo" not that that is what I want.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
u-turn #2561236 04/26/15 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: u-turn
I don't know the answer to this. I think my self-judgement is a problem, though for a good chunk of my life I thought this was good and what drove me to do great things.
Hello u-turn,

I was the exact same way! Between therapy, the loving people on this forum and time, I have realized that self-judgement is digging me into a deeper hole if I ever want a chance at DB'ing my M.

It took time, but I think I have gotten away from this habit.

As Sandi always says regarding WWs, "It is his inner strength that women respect." If you keep on with the self-judgement (I know, it's not easy) how are you going to ever come across as a man standing tall and firm? That's what I'm working towards.

I wish you well.

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14
Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Bob723 #2561595 04/27/15 09:22 PM
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Thanks Peter - It seems so easy, doesn't it? Throw away all of the current things that are not allowing us to work on the marriage, and then work on the connection and marriage. W just doesn't see it that way. I think now that she is hung up on forgiveness. She doesn't believe that I can forgive her - and we have not talked about that in a very long time.

Are forgiveness and trust the same thing? I don't think so. I feel that forgiveness is easy for me, but trust is not turning out to be that way - especially when trust is solely based on my forgetting and moving forward.

----

Thanks Bob, I have been digging into the self-judgement lately. I didn't even realize that I was doing that. I still don't really understand it much and maybe I am oversimplifying it, but I have always critiqued and evaluated my work and my skills, I thought I needed to do that to have constant improvement. I know I have been known to beat myself up over mistakes - enough to cause alarm to people that know me. I have grown beyond that, but still am probably a little overcritical with myself. I do not expect perfection from others - I believe (I have had problems with thinking that I need to fix other peoples mistakes though - maybe that is controlling).

Sorry that was rambling (clearly not a perfectionist when it comes to writing/communicating - only doing)

----

Not too much has changed here for the most part. I stayed very busy working this weekend, (had a couple client meeting which are a lot of work to prepare form but make me feel good (people pleasing)), kids were busy doing there own things, and W mostly hung around the house.

Out of the blue this morning, W told me "we will both be ok" - I didn't know where this was coming from.

I said that "I know we will. What you need and what I need are not meshing right now."

She asked what I needed - I told her "I need confidence in us. I already told you what I needed". - I think she understood (NC, Letter, Transparency). She walked away and said that "you have already made your decision".

She is clearly not going to provide what I asked for a couple weeks ago. She knows that I don't trust her and that is not improving by ignoring the situation and nicing our way back. Not giving me something like this is not helping us work toward R - if that is still her intention. I really think that she believes this is about forgiveness and not trust - but I am not sure.

I am really confused by her interaction this morning, but don't know if I should try to ask her about it.


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
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