Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#2561043 04/26/15 01:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2560715&page=11

Reminds me of the joke:

A 95 year old couple are in front of a judge asking for a divorce. The judge says, "you're 95. Why now?" The couple reply, "we wanted to wait until the kids died."


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
Funny stuff...
That is how I feel sometimes - just another event before we can figure this out - but wait, then there's the grandkids wink


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
Hahaha. That was a good one and a good start for a new thread lol.
Made my evening.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 323
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 323
Peter,

Time for an update? How are you? What's going on?

Cheers,

Dev


Me: 40
Wife: 38
M: 10. T: 18
S: 8, D: 6, S: 4
BD 02/01/14
Asked her to leave 02/01/14

Keeping the dream alive
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
Peter - you've been gone for a long time. How is everything going?
Hope you are well.


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Hi everyone. I took a break from the forum for a couple of months, since the status quo is limbo while we get ready for our daughter's wedding.
As you may recall, the deal I made with W back in March was no R talk until after wedding as long as she has NC with OM.
I've only slipped up a couple of times but usually only after she brings up issues like non-compatibility. Not sure if she's been compliant.
Wedding is this Saturday.
We'll see what happens after that.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Peter, good to hear from you and sorry to hear things havent really shifted in your sitch. I hope everything goes well with the wedding. What are your plans after that? Do you plan to initiate a R talk or will you just carry on DBing?

How are you feeling in yourself towards your W?

Take care, Toots :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2585783 07/08/15 12:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
After the wedding I'll see how she is. I may give her a little recovery time but I'm sick and tire of the limbo. No affection, no hugs, no kisses. Lots of bitching and complaining about me.
I will not live in a loveless marriage. I will state my position - my requirements for what I need in my life. What kind of person I need to be married to and she may be that person or she may not - that will be up to her to decide - and I'll give her a limited amount of time to decide before I move on to a better life.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
Peter - glad to see you back, though I was hoping for better news as I'm sure you were. Hopefully there will be some movement for you after the wedding.

What are your feelings about R after all this time - Does Peter still have it in him to continue the fight?

Make the best of the weekend and the wedding.

Take care!


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Well, the wedding went off without a hitch. I was emcee and my W and her ex lead my step daughter down the aisle. Beautiful outdoor wedding beside the river under the willows and the reception was in a hall an hour south on the same river by the waterfalls. Great evening. Shared a hotel room with the W but separate beds. Now it's over and life returns to "normal".

These past 4 months have been fairly difficult for me. I kept to my promise not to discuss our R. Not sure if W kept to her (unagreed-to) part of the deal to NC the OM. I cannot see her phone and she won't share it with me. I did slip up a couple of times - like when I asked if she was being faithful to me, to which she retorted, "what about you being faithful to me?" which took me a bit by surprise. I replied, "what the heck are you talking about?" followed by, "I'll take that as a 'no'".

But I'm not sure. She's often really sweet, cooking me great meals. Spending lots of time with me, talking about all sorts of things. Enjoying laughs together. And of course taking care of our recovering cat, who is still blind and incontinent, but getting better daily.

She rarely hugs me - gives her ex husband (who was a alcoholic wife-beater 15 years ago) more hugs nowadays than I get. Occasionally I'll go in to kiss her good night or good-bye and she'll turn her cheek to me so as not to kiss me on the lips. Yeah, I know, that's pressuring but it's usually done in a candid, nonchalant way like we used to do years ago.

I sleep in the spare room on an air mattress on the floor, with the cat, who really does need the comforting. One night a few weeks ago I wanted a better sleep so I crawled into my own bed in the master bedroom. W immediately got out of the bed and went downstairs to sleep on the couch. No problem for me as I had a great night's sleep. The next day she left without a word and stayed at her daughter's place and to following day stayed at a girlfriend's place. So I had 3 great nights of sleep.

I'm still doing Fri, Sat & Sun nights at the Retirement Home (RH) which still hasn't sold. Working on getting our resident numbers up - it'll sell when we have 8 (we only have 5 right now).

This week, after the wedding, W is feeling anxious, as she told me this morning. Wants to go talk to our MC. I said we should go see her. W said she wants to meet with her first before we go in together. I see that gesture as a positive sign.

That being said, I'm wearying of the loveless, sexless marriage. No affection whatsoever. Although today she did give me a hug before she left to go to dinner with her girlfriend. She has headaches and anxiety and doesn't sleep well at night.

I'm willing to consider reconciliation if she is game. But I'm not averse to giving her my speech to give her the opportunity to decide whether she wants to or not.

Here's the speech:

I have no desire to control you. I can only control myself.

I have decided what works for me.

I will not live in an open marriage.

I will be married to someone who is faithful to me and committed to working on our relationship.

My wife will treat me with respect and be civil even when we disagree.

My wife will be honest with me even if it's a difficult subject.

I will be with someone who will come to me and not turn to another man when the going gets tough.

This is what I deserve going forward.

Now, whether or not you can be that woman is completely up to you, and I'll understand if you don't want to.

I cannot control what you do; you are a grown adult woman, and are free to make your own choices.

All I can tell you is what I am will to endure in my marriage, and this is a personal boundary with me.

I love you, and I don't want a divorce, and I hope you will come back and work on our marriage with me, at which point I think you will find me ready and willing to work on any and all issues.

I do expect you to let me know, however, and soon, because I'm not waiting forever.

To be delivered in a very neutral tone of voice, no anger or cynicism.

My patience is running thin.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Peter,

I'm glad your daughter had a nice wedding. Having mamrried my two off in the last three years, I know that must be a relief for you and some special memories that you all will share forever.

That's a good speech. You need to stop sleeping on an air mattress, on the floor, in a spare bedroom however. Not only is it not fair to you, but it doesn't match the strength and resolve of the speech message.

Put more simply, she's not going to take a man seriously who is sleeping on an air mattress!


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
I agree with Starsky! I think you should treat yourself to a nice new bed. If you're going to be in the spare room, you might as well be comfortable.

Just FYI, NH115 is getting to the point where he is going to leave - and no longer waiting around in the hope his W may come around. You may find it helpful to read his recent posts.

Also, in practice - what is your plan if your W isn't interested in working on the M. Is she going to move out? Are you going to move on/out? I think it is worth having your own vision of the life you want for yourself if she decides she isn't coming along for the ride.

Good luck with things x

Last edited by Toots; 07/17/15 02:31 PM.

T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2589045 07/17/15 02:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
Peter,

I am noticing a trend here.

Many LBS have moved out of their house. Lo and behold! Their WASes comes running back and wanting to get back together. Below are recent case examples:

HP (Hercule Poirot)
GoFo
CaliGuy
Kramer
Squiggy

Common theme? They moved out of the house and got on with their lives. Then their WAW realizes, "oh chit, I have lost H!" and come running back to the LBS.

You have NOTHING to lose by moving out...for real. Your W doesn't feel that she's losing you because YOU are always there...faithfully waiting for her to make her decision.

F@ck that! You take back your true power and make the decision yourself by moving out.

Just DO it.


Last edited by Wonka; 07/17/15 02:54 PM.
Wonka #2589097 07/17/15 06:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Wonka is right, Peter. The problem with "grand pronouncements" about "moving on" is that the very pronouncement itself indicates that you're NOT moving on. It comes across like you're trying to get some sort of reaction out of her, and trying to get her to stay.

I think it would be much better, considering just HOW far along you are in your sitch -- and considering you totally lived up to your end of the bargain in waiting for after your stepdaughter's wedding -- to merely just let her know you've got a place, and you're moving out on the 30th (or whatever). At MOST just say "I have decided that this isn't working for me anymore, and I need to get on with my life."

Let her pursue YOU for a change.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
I spoke with her today, saying it's time we start looking at fixing this marriage. She said she just had a busy few months concentrating on her daughter's wedding and now she need some time to decompress. Here brother and mum are coming to visit soon and she wants to have that time with them without me pressuring her.

She claims the affair is long over. She feels like I'm smothering her. She tells me how hurt she is that I go on porn sites (I still do). She wants to have her friends and her life back. She still digs up the past and I can't change the past. I say we need to move on, but she says there's too much damage from my past.

Maybe, Wonka, you're right and I should move out. But she has no job except the RH which we probably can sell in a month or two. But then there's no telling how she'll deal with the financial ramifications of that. So if I go now do I keep paying all the bills and mortgage at our matrimonial home? I don't want to lose it. I just spent a whack of money putting on a new patio for the wedding. Besides my whole business in in the house: warehouse, office and shipping room.

She did say she's not going anywhere, which I take as she still wants to keep me in her life.

I did a favour for the neighbor and now W thinks I've got the hots for her. Almost like a bit of jealousy. She's a nice lady, but I am not interested. I'm just trying to be neighborly. I'm becoming good friends with her and her husband. So is my wife. We get together more frequently nowadays.

W says I'm a loner but she has lots and lots of friends which she feels like she forsook when we married. I had lots of friends too but I had to forsake them all as they were also friends of my ex-wife and I needed to distance myself from those relationships to prove I was moving on from that era in my life.

Now that I've moved away from my former hometown to my W's hometown I'm needing to make new friends here, but I've been so busy over the past 5 years that my social life was put aside. So now W says I'm a loner. That I'm awkward in social situations. I don't think so at all. I was just recently the MC at our daughter's wedding and everyone commented on how well I did.

She also doesn't like my stage presence when I'm performing. She used to like it. But now she thinks it's fake and over the top. And that I'm just trying to grab attention. I do get into my performances and I'm not going to change how I enjoy those.

I think if I move out, I'll have to make it a permanent thing, otherwise it'll just look contrived. I don't want to leave my house though. I just got myself a king size bed for the spare room. Maybe once my in-laws are gone things will change. Yeah - I hear you yawning.

We do spend a lot of time together. She cooks for me. We talk a lot about everything except the R.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Peter, I'm sorry to hear that. Ah - more limbo and another reason for you not to upset the apple card. Your W wants time with brother and Mum without you pressuring her. You know that after this there will be a new reason and more limbo don't you?

Your W isn't interested in having a good M with you just now. And likely you are in for more of the same if you choose to continue on your current path. I don't think she will wake up unless there is a significant change. And you don't want to move because you just laid a new patio???

Putting your W to one side just now. What sort of life do YOU want to live, and are you living that life right now? Do you want to be stuck in a 'half-marriage' with someone who doesn't even want to make it better?

If you aren't, it is within your gift to make decisions towards living life as you want it to be. I truly hope that you decide to stand up for your own life and happiness, because I think you are stuck right now.

Good luck to you if you do - there will be plenty of support and encouragement on this forum whichever way my friend.

Take care xx

Last edited by Toots; 08/02/15 08:05 AM.

T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2593627 08/02/15 03:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
I don't want to move because I like it here and if anyone is going to it'll have to be her.

W wants to keep the RH for a while longer when it starts turning a profit which should be in a month or two. I'm all for just selling it and getting our money out of it. It's been an albatross around our necks for too long. I think she thinks she can extract money out of the place once it turns a profit. She doesn't realize that my company has been subsidizing hers for almost two years, and needs to get reimbursed first. When I presented that information to her she balked at it saying that money's been paid and it's history. I even presented her with the invoice which she put a stroke through to void it.

And she's all chirpy and smiley most of the time around me. Cooking for me and talking about plans for our future.

But occasionally she goes on a rant about some of my personality traits. When she starts on those I will shut her down saying I will not be spoken to in a disrespectful tone of voice.

She's always going on about how people compliment her on her looks and her abilities. She's so insecure she keeps repeating these stories. And this insecurity is very deeply engrained. I saw it when we first met. I thought that her years of enduring abusive relationships had caused it or at least had exacerbated it, and that I could provide her the support and love to help her heal herself. But I'm not sure how aware she is of this trait. I'm not her psychologist so I'm not sure if I should discuss that with her. It may just make her resent me more. So I just validate her.

But frankly, I would be ok without her in my life. I really don't want that, but I'm not going to live a loveless, sexless marriage until I'm living in my own retirement home. So, yes, I would be just fine without her in my life. I would prosper and be happy and maybe someone else would come along. I have so much love to give and it's now unrequited.

I think selling the RH will be a turning point. Once a whack of money is sitting on the table I'll see what sort of person she really is. When my first marriage ended I gave my ex more than she was entitled to, just to avoid a lengthy court battle which I felt would have been hard on my children. My current W is still angry that I did that, and thinks it was because I wanted my ex back (not the case), and she still brings it up - even brought it up yesterday during our talk. So if now W is looking at the same sitch I think she will feel entitled to more than her fair share. I could see her spewing about it the same way my first wife spewed about it. But this time I have a full closet of spew jackets from the Starksy Collection.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Another thought. Once we sell the RH we'll be able to pay off all our current debt and I won't have the survival of that business to worry about. I'm currently managing both her business and mine. If I pull out before it's sold it will go bankrupt within a month and the bankruptcy trustee will be in charge. The business is in W's name so it won't affect my credit rating, but I did put $200K into it to buy the place and have put about another $200K into it for improvements and to keep it running. I'm not about to let that investment evaporate. So once that place is sold I'll be freer to make my decision about where I go from here. I have a feeling that W will try to keep all the capital from the sale of the place. When I give her the accounting facts above she may say it's her business and she'll do as she pleases. That would lead to my company suing hers for the money which would certain bring things to a head. Some lawyers would make a lot of money.

So as you can see, I don't really want to go down that path. But that may be the path that's ahead of me.

Alternately, we could, as W says, hang on to the place as is starts turning a profit and I'll keep managing it and slowly pay the money back to my company. In the meantime I could still continue DBing and doing what I can to save the marriage, living under the same roof in this opaque limbo.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Sotto #2593890 08/03/15 01:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: Toots
Hi Peter, I'm sorry to hear that. Ah - more limbo and another reason for you not to upset the apple card. Your W wants time with brother and Mum without you pressuring her. You know that after this there will be a new reason and more limbo don't you?

Your W isn't interested in having a good M with you just now. And likely you are in for more of the same if you choose to continue on your current path. I don't think she will wake up unless there is a significant change.



x 2.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
Peter,

When I read your update earlier, my first thought was that you and W are living as "roommates" passing each other. You two are not living as a married couple.

Toots raised a very valid point: What do you REALLY want out of life?

Again, you have your destiny in your own hands and isn't directly tied to W. Really contemplate on what you truly want and so richly deserve.

It seems to me that your W has you in a place where she derives "some" benefits from you as her H without "the whole enchilada."

I cannot imagine being married to someone WITHOUT any form of emotional and sexual intimacy. I have plenty of friends and people who would make ideal roommates out there.

Wonka #2594043 08/03/15 09:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
True Wonka, we're living as roommates. But it's more than that. She isn't working much. Does some work at the RH maybe a couple hours a week at most. She does a lot of cooking and cleaning at home. Goes out with friends and does a lot of shopping. I'm running both businesses - hers and mine and bringing in all the income. I feel used.

I so badly want to sell the RH as that will really simplify the next step.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my future and how I want my life to look. She may be part of the equation or she may not. That will be up to her to decide. Either way I'm fine with it. If she doesn't want to work on our M then I'll just move on. I'm really starting to feel detached, which I believe is a healthy step.

Yeah, I'm this is not a marriage. This is a torturous endurance challenge. And I'm getting ready to step off this train.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: PeterV2


I've been doing a lot of thinking about my future and how I want my life to look. She may be part of the equation or she may not. That will be up to her to decide. Either way I'm fine with it. If she doesn't want to work on our M then I'll just move on.



Peter I see you make quite a few statements like this, but I don't think your wife sees your actions lining up with these words. I think she just feels she can continue to throw you a bone every now again and keep stringing you along.

You SAY all the right things -- including a very smart, self-aware perception of the issues -- but I still sadly see you stuck.

I pray you'll get there . . . you deserve to be happy.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Thanks Starsky. Yes I do deserve to be happy. Actually I am fairly happy as it stands. I don't need someone else's love or approval to determine my level of happiness. True it would be nice if my W would share my journey but she's in another place psychologically and I cannot control that.

Yeah, I'm stuck. But it's of my own choosing. I can't see myself moving my business which is a huge undertaking and getting another place until the RH is sold. We're getting closer to that every day. So I take it one day at a time.

So I just try to detach and be civil.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 78
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 78
Originally Posted By: PeterV2

Here's the speech:

I have no desire to control you. I can only control myself.

I have decided what works for me.

I will not live in an open marriage.

I will be married to someone who is faithful to me and committed to working on our relationship.

My wife will treat me with respect and be civil even when we disagree.

My wife will be honest with me even if it's a difficult subject.

I will be with someone who will come to me and not turn to another man when the going gets tough.

This is what I deserve going forward.

Now, whether or not you can be that woman is completely up to you, and I'll understand if you don't want to.

I cannot control what you do; you are a grown adult woman, and are free to make your own choices.

All I can tell you is what I am will to endure in my marriage, and this is a personal boundary with me.

I love you, and I don't want a divorce, and I hope you will come back and work on our marriage with me, at which point I think you will find me ready and willing to work on any and all issues.

I do expect you to let me know, however, and soon, because I'm not waiting forever.

To be delivered in a very neutral tone of voice, no anger or cynicism.

My patience is running thin.


This is going to be something I need to memorize. I'm reading the rest of your thread, but this is awesome. Thank you!


M: 36 yo
W: 36 yo
S: 7
D: 4
M: 13 yrs
BD: 6/14 (??)
PE Confirmed 7/15 (4 months)
The road to recovery starts now
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
I may read it from a printed sheet so I don't have to rely on my memory. Then once delivered I could just drop the sheet on the table if she needs to read it over in case she missed some of it.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
Hi Peter - you have given me so much great and comforting advice throughout my time here - I consider you the zen master - told me about tao te ching (which I have read and think about a lot), helped me with maintaining PMA in my house, being calm, thinking logically............

I totally understand the point you are as I am there too. It's like all we ever wanted was that one simple thing, a real R, that seems so easy but is completely out of our reach in our current lives.

I don't have any advice as I am in the process of exploding everything on my end, but I wanted you to know that I am thinking of you and wish you all the best.


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Thanks Uturn for the words of encouragement.

I'll have to read up on your sitch - I've been off the boards for a while and just trying to get caught up on everyone's progress. Been reading NH115's lately. About half way through.

Yeah the Tao Te Ching does help keep things in perspective. Definitely captures the counterintuitive approach.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
So yesterday W claimed I was moving on as I've found someone else. This comes as a surprise to me. I would like to know who this someone else is. She said she's heard from someone about it. I told her one of my pet peeves is being falsely accused. I asked her who she's getting this misinformation from but she wouldn't divulge.

She asked me what web sites I'm on and told her SaveYourMarriage and StrongerMarriageNow, but didn't mention DivorceBusting. She thought I would be on on-line dating sites. I told her I was on those for 4 days shortly after BD but got off them when she came back and said we could work this out. That was 20 months ago and she's still pissed off at that as if it happened yesterday.

She does think I'm still on those dating sites but I told her I'm not.

She's upset that I look at porn sites. I told I don't have to. She's clearly upset about that.

She again said the A is over - it's not longer even an EA as OM has moved on. She does still occasionally send word that she's ok through a 3rd party. I told her that's not acceptable. She has to get him right out of her head. She said that was the deal and left it at that.

I told her I've only been interested in saving our marriage for the past year and a half and any information she has to the contrary is false.

Since that convo she's been friendlier and allowed some hugs.

I even kissed her on the lips last night and she didn't protest.

So I tried to kiss her on the lips when she left today and we got into the same old I'm to blame for all the past problems and that she needs time to work out her own issues. She claimed my needs trump hers. I denied that saying both our needs are valid. Her need is to keep a distance from me while she works out her issues. My needs are to save the marriage and get closer together to do so. But maybe we need the distance to save the marriage.

We did leave on a good note. And she said she's looking forward to seeing me play Sat.

I'll continue later - gotta go to band practice.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
She drove for an hour and a half to come see me play Sat night. Enjoyed herself and gave me a big hug when she left to drive home and asked me to text her when I leave the gig.

She did mention that she wants to go see her IC before we go together. I approved. But not sure when she's planning to do that.

Limbo continues...


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: PeterV2


Limbo continues...



And it will continue to continue, unless and until YOU change the dynamic, Peter. Your wife strings you along, throws you crumbs, you claim to us (and sometimes even to her) that it's all not acceptable, and your response is to try to give her a big wet kiss???

crazy

A body in motion tends to stay in motion until acted upon by an outside force. Basic physics.


Starsky

Last edited by Starsky309; 08/17/15 08:42 PM.

M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,805
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,805
Peter -

I'm glad you're getting some positives - you're doing something right.

You are also getting great advice. Make your actions line up with your words or vice versa. Otherwise ... You keep doing what you've always done, you will keep getting what you've always gotten.

Also explained by starsky in terms of physics.

No fear Peter.


sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
It's been another month of limbo. I went away from Sept 9 to Phoenix AZ for a sales convention and then to San Francisco to do some work. W called me almost every day to talk. Also sent plenty of texts. She left for a short vacation with her girlfriend on Sept 15 and I got home later that night, so we haven't seen each other for over a week. I did call her last night after she sent me a text to save having to text a dozen times. She's relaxing and working on how to deal with her panic attacks. Her girlfriend has training in this area and is helping her with that.

I kind of like the break. I'm feeling pretty relaxed. Things have been pretty smooth between us over the past month. But that could be because I'm not bringing up any R issues. Just living day by day.

I still get freaked out when she's away and I don't hear from her. My mind goes straight to the suspicion that she's with OM, but I really thing that's just my paranoia. She's not that good an actor. A year and a half ago I could tell when she was with him by the way she acted before and after - none of that now. All pretty natural, so I think she is telling the truth. Unless she has become even better at lying. See, my mind plays games with me.

Not that I can do anything about it if she is still in contact with him. All I can do is steer my own ship. But it would be nice to know the truth - so I can plot my course accordingly. Is she really just trying to find herself again before recommitting to the M or is she just biding her time? I just wish I had some way of knowing. I guess I could put a tracking device in her car. The car is an asset of my business so I have the right to know where it is.

Anyway, I'm just trying to have some fun and not fret over things. Let life take it's course. But it certainly would be nice to share some closeness and affection with my W. When she's ready.

Continuing on the Newtonian trajectory - straight line through limbo...


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 628
Z
zew Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 628
Quote:
I just wish I had some way of knowing. I guess I could put a tracking device in her car. The car is an asset of my business so I have the right to know where it is.
Check the laws in ON, but likely you could do this. You don't even need a tracking device beyond your own smartphone. But Peter realize, you may learn something and that knowledge may force you to act, and you seem to be avoiding that.

Quote:
Anyway, I'm just trying to have some fun and not fret over things. Let life take it's course. But it certainly would be nice to share some closeness and affection with my W. When she's ready.

Let life take its course... When she's ready...

Peter, we've both been here for a while and seen a lot of crap, so I'll speak frankly. I must say that I worry about you, because you seem content to stay in limbo. Starsky poked at you, telling you that the limbo will continue in accordance to Newton's first law. It will; honestly, it will, because W is not an agent of change.

And life will take its course. The clock runs down and eventually times out. You can let it steer you, or you can do your best to get what you want out of it. Figure out what percentage of your life you have now spent in your current state waiting for the rest of your life. How big can you let that number get? Law of diminishing returns, you know.

My read is that you've also used the RH as an excuse, "As soon as we get one more person, we'll be profitable, and then, ..."

And the months keep ticking by. And now you're wondering if W is telling you the truth. At your level of commitment to hanging around indefinitely, I should think that it surely doesn't matter to you if W is telling you the truth. How could it? If it really mattered to you, you would have found out or left her by now.

Now you know I'm not telling you what to do. It just seems to me that you are still unwilling to take hold of the situation for what it is and do what you want for you. And everything in DB says that doesn't help your cause.

zew #2608144 09/19/15 03:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Thanks for chiming in, Zew.

She is indeed at a spa with her girlfriend. She sent me pics last night and this morning told me the name of the spa. So I checked it out on line and the pics are accurate. So that puts me more at ease that she's being honest with me. It's just the old wounds that make me doubt her.

As for selling the RH it is indeed hinged on having 8 residents - the buyer's financiers require that. So it looks like it'll be about 3 more weeks and then we can sell it. Getting that albatross off from around our necks will be cathartic.

W has panic attacks frequently. That's been going on for about 5 years now. Complex PTSD has been diagnosed. She was working on that with her IC who also happens to be our MC. Perhaps not the ideal MC for our sitch, but she certainly knows our back story intimately. But she hasn't gone to see her in a while. With her recent anxiety attacks I think I'll suggest she goes for another session. That'll also give them the opportunity to talk about our sitch.

Yeah I know what you mean about the relentless forward march of time. But I truly feel that this R is salvageable and will result in a deeper and more fulfilling M once we get this whole A thing behind us.

You can change the direction that things are moving without applying force, by warping spacetime with gravity. smile


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
So W came home last night and gave me a warm hug. We had a glass of wine while we caught each other up on stuff.
I left printout on her dresser and went to bed. The printout was about the 24 things a cheater should do to help the betrayed heal.
She confronted me with that this morning and seems a bit upset. She said if I think the A was the problem then I'm delusional. The problem is all the stuff that lead up to her having an A. The A was just a symptom of that. Then she went around the mulberry bush a hundred times again dredging up my past "sins".
I said I had to go (I did have to) and left, saying we'd talk later. Later it was the same old stuff again...

But she did want me to book us an appt with our MC. So I think that is a positive step. She feels we need a neutral third party to mediate our differences of opinion. She doesn't like when I tell her that I can see that she feels a certain way and that her perception of events is valid. She says I'm patronizing her, claiming that me saying her viewpoint is her perception is basically calling it inaccurate. I disagreed, saying that everyone has their own perception of things and that is based on their point of view which is different in everyone - hence her call to get our MC to referee. smile

The dance continues. I sent MC an email - waiting for a reply.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Peter, I'm sorry things didn't go well with the printout and I'm not surprised. What does surprise me is - why would you ever think leaving a printout like that for her was ever going to go well???

Where you guys seem to be at right now is a kind of stand off. You NEED her to properly repent from having the A and give you what you need to help you recover. She NEEDs you to understand how hard it was for her and the conditions in the M prior to the A.

You seem to be lumbering along in a sort of toxic limboland - not really working on the M in any productive way. Both harbouring many bad feelings. And I almost get a little tired of posting...because it's just more of the same.....sorry to be blunt.

Yes, MC may be a good idea. But I think you need to be in the right place to start it, and I don't know that you guys are at this point. Perhaps others may have some better advice for you Peter. I want to help, but I just feel a bit frustrated TBH - sorry.

I hope things go well for you if you both decide to commit to the MC.


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2609346 09/23/15 07:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810

Yep -- x 2.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
I knew leaving the printout would not go well. It would trigger her to at least start a conversation - even if it's a difficulty conversation. And that it did and it was. But it ended with us booking a trip to the MC for the first time in almost a year. So if we can manage to get through a session without her walking out like she did in the last one then I'll consider it baby steps. MC session is next Wed.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Peter, you're almost 2 years into this. I guess if it were me, I'd be looking for far more than "baby steps" here, but that's your call. I honestly don't see anything changing with regards to your wife's and your dysfunctional marital dynamic unless acted upon by some outside force (you).

Are you happy?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Well she finally went to our MC today. I haven't heard the results. I've been 3 times in the last month. Maybe now we'll go in together. Depends on how today's session went. I'll post again shortly.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
I sure hope for the best for you. I have to think that it is a good sign that she went.

Has there been any change in the dynamics at home?

Wishing you peace.


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
I've really detached, to the point where I don't really even care which way things go. I still do have a preference to save the marriage, but there's so much going on in both our lives with our businesses that I don't have a lot of time to agonize over the sitch.
She continues to talk about our future and planning our home and business lives. She still is trying to manage her depression and going regularly to the doctor to tweak the meds. I'm not putting any pressure on her or bringing up any R talk. I'm just working and being civil.
She has been way nicer to me over the past couple of weeks. But that could change on a dime. There's a history of that behaviour.
Anyway, continuing limbo. The potential buyer of the RH is touring it again next week. Still if we can't fill the rooms I sent word to our new government that we'll take in a dozen Syrian refugees. Waiting to hear back on that.
One day soon I'll ask if she'd be interested in a join MC session. But when the time is right.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
Peter-I was just thinking of you. Hope everything is alright. I know it's tough to post when there is little movement, but would like to hear about how things are going.

Wishing you peace.
u-turn


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Just checking in. Piecing things back together slowly. Still trying to sell the retirement home (RH). She started kissing me on the lips on our anniversary in July. Now she says ILY. But still sleeping in separate beds and the only intimacy is hugs. I'm in the guest room. She comes in at night to kiss me good night.

We really need to offload that RH. Have a plan and consultants working on getting that done in the next 4 months. Then a huge weight will be lifted off of us.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 27
Thanks for sharing Peter! Glad to hear there are movements in a positive direction for some of us.

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Well it's been a hard 15 months since my last post.
In Sept 16 the night staff quit at the RH so I moved in because we had no money to pay anyone. The place was bleeding red ink. I took over the management from my wife who basically stopped working there. I called in a consultant and formulated a plan and built it from 2 residents in Oct 16 to 10 resident in Jun 17. Then We got and offer and finally sold the place end of Sept 17. Then wife & I took a 5 week tour around the world. It was fun and we're good company, but after 5 years with no sex from my wife - and I kept asking. I had it and a couple of weeks ago I was out of town on business and hired a couple of escorts to my hotel room to feel the closeness of a woman. It was totally unsatisfying. But worse, my wife somehow seems to monitor my ipad and iphone and saw all the messages. She confronted me on Saturday and after trying to deny it, I admitted to doing it. S**t hit the fan. She attacked me and when I tried to defend myself she called the police. They believed that I was just trying to defend myself, so after they left I left town to stay at my kids' place. Now it's Monday and she came home late and said we need to talk. I told her I think it best that we divorce.
She said she loves me but is furious about my infidelity. She hugged me and kissed me but then moments later threated me if I ever lie to her again.
I don't know what to do. We're about to leave on another 6 week vacation but is she just a gold digger or is she really wanting to work it out? I can't tell. She seems to be all over the place. I fear that if I stay, she'll never let me forget it. She always brings up things from 10 years ago that I did wrong. I fear I'll never live this one down. I was thinking to change the trip itinerary so that we go our separate ways, but she likes my company and wants to go together. But it could be a trip from hell for me, having to jump through hoops for scraps of love. Haven't had sex with her for almost 5 years. Driving me crazy. (If you go back in my posts you'll see had an affair 4 years ago)
Don't know what to do.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,896
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,896
Hi. I haven't been on the site for a while but I see you've been getting great advice here. I caught up on your thread and you say you don't want to live in a sexless lifeless marriage. Your wife seems just fine with that though. Totally fine.

I would give her an ultimatum of doing marriage counseling and see a therapist specializing in sex therapy. If she won't do it and I mean immediately no delay for reason a, b, or c, I would look into filing for divorce. That is unless you decide you want the sexless lifeless marriage. Sorry for the harshness.


Me 53
D18, S24
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
P
PeterV2 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
I agree.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 786
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 786
Peter, you put too much weight on getting rid of the retirement home and too much hope that your marriage would dramatically improve just because of that. Your wife hasn't done ANY work to 'clean up her side of the street'. No, you shouldn't have hired an escort. You should have filed for divorce a long time ago.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard