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Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Journaling:
W called tonight to let D4 FaceTime with me. After talking with D4 for a few minutes, W calmly asked me what I wanted in all of this. W says she doesn't want it to fester. W realized that she hadn't let me talk or hear my perspective yet. W wants to schedule a time to talk because she knows that I won't call her.

I told W that I was in the middle of something and wasn't ready to talk right now but we could talk about it tomorrow night. W said she understood and that was fine.

So, what do you think the best way is to handle this conversation tomorrow? I'm sure she just wants to know where I stand with her intention to D. Should I tell W that I don't want a D but I won't stand in her way?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Validate her reasons why she wants a D. Admit to your faults (not hers) and say that while you don't believe in D, you can understand what got her to this point. Tell her that you will not be doing anything yourself as it goes against your beliefs on M, but she is free to do as she wishes.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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I am becoming Mr Bond's parrot. But I agree with him.

Also remember you are not a doormat. She was feeding you breadcrumbs yesterday, which means she is manipulating you to meet her agenda. It will do you no good to go into detail about your perspective. Keep it short as Mr Bond said. Remember that strength and confidence are your tools, neediness, reasoning and explaining will be your enemy. You broke down her A, she is in a weird place. Be Careful. I think it is really important for you to validate her position, and then acknowledge your faults (at a very high level), and to be detached even if you have to fake it


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
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Originally Posted By: mahhhty
and to be detached even if you have to fake it


You'll almost certainly have a lot of faking it to do.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
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Alright gang, I have been thinking about what to say to W all day. I actually had a previously scheduled DB coaching session today and I got some pointers from them too.

Here's what I got:

"Obviously, our relationship had some serious issues. And I know that I bear a lot of the blame for those issues. It must have felt absolutely awful being in a marriage where you didn't feel valued, supported, or appreciated. I know I hurt your heart beyond repair when I didn't cherish or love you like you deserved to be. I know I failed you in so many ways and I'm sure this left you feeling empty inside. All of these are valid reasons for you to want a divorce from me.

However, I do not believe that divorce is the right thing for our family right now. I will not be initiating or pursuing a divorce at this time.

I understand your reasons for wanting a divorce and you are free to do as you wish. I will strive to be amicable and respectful through this process."

Thoughts?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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That's not entirely validating. The whole first paragraph is how you say that you understand her, etc., then the very next paragraph you invalidate what you just said by saying "however". When you communicate with someone and say things like "But" or "However", it invalidates what you just said prior. Makes you seem insincere or that you're only telling her what she wants to hear. She'll recognize that in a heartbeat.

"I know I hurt your heart beyond repair when I didn't cherish or love you like you deserved to be."

And don't say things like this. If you say that you hurt her heart "beyond repair", then you should know there's no hope.

Keep it straight and simple and no feelings attached.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
That's not entirely validating. The whole first paragraph is how you say that you understand her, etc., then the very next paragraph you invalidate what you just said by saying "however". When you communicate with someone and say things like "But" or "However", it invalidates what you just said prior. Makes you seem insincere or that you're only telling her what she wants to hear. She'll recognize that in a heartbeat.

"I know I hurt your heart beyond repair when I didn't cherish or love you like you deserved to be."

And don't say things like this. If you say that you hurt her heart "beyond repair", then you should know there's no hope.

Keep it straight and simple and no feelings attached.

Mrbond, thanks for the great advice. Besides the aforementioned changes, where do you recommend streamlining the statement? My DB coach encouraged me to include a few examples in the first paragraph.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Here are my suggestions...


"I know our relationship had some serious issues, and I bear a lot of the blame for those. It must have felt awful being in a marriage where you didn't feel valued, supported, or appreciated. I know I hurt your heart when I didn't cherish or love you like you deserved to be. I failed you in many ways and I'm sure this left you feeling empty inside.

I understand your reasons for wanting a divorce and of course you are free to do as you wish. Divorce isn't what I want, but I respect your wishes and will do my best to be amicable and respectful if this is your choice."


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Those are great edits by Toots.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
Those are great edits by Toots.

I agree 100%!


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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W called and asked if it was a good time to talk. We made a little small talk and then I told W that I had just a few things to say.

I essentially read Toots edited version but complete with dramatic pauses.
W stopped me a couple of times in first paragraph to correct me and say that our M wasn't all bad, etc.

When I finished, W thanked me for what I said. Then, W proceeded to tell me she paid her L's retainer today and started to try to convince me to just let her L work it out for both of us.

I responded by saying I don't think that would be the best as that L is your L. I then reminded her that I didn't want a D.

W seemed surprised and said, "You mean, you won't sign?"
I simply rephrased the last sentence from my script.

W then started recounting all the reasons why she couldn't get back together with me. I simply listened and would occasionally respond by saying "I know" or "I understand." W said that she wants to see me happy with somebody else.

W then asked if I would agree to sit down and discuss a parenting plan. I replied that I would and that it was important to work through that.

I then told W that I pledged to be amicable in this process and wished her a good night.

W replied that it felt like an odd way to end conversation and W asked if I was mad. I replied that I was not mad and I was completely calm and at peace.

The entire conversation couldn't have been more than 10 minutes. It never once got heated or antagonistic.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Good job. Keep up that cool demeanor.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Well done with the convo....glad my editing helped a little :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Not too much to report since yesterday.
W tried to FaceTime me while I was at work but I was in a meeting.
W sent a few emails just giving me some details on the bills, etc.
W also tagged me in an Instagram post. Other than that, nothing else.

W called to tell me she was on her way to drop off kids before work. When she got here, she appeared to be in a hurry and never turned off her car.

On the personal front, had a good day at work, got in some exercise, did some research for a discussion group on Friday, and grilled burgers for the kids.

I quit smoking over 8 years ago but I've always wanted to get a tobacco pipe so I picked one up after work. Could be a fun little vice...


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Sounds like a decent day for you. Good job.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Good morning everybody!

W just called after her overnight shift to tell me about something good that happened to her at work. I listened to W, affirmed and validated her success, and then changed the subject to the kids. Then, I had to ask W about some banking questions. When we sorted it out, I wished W a good day and told her I'm glad she had a good night at work.

I tried to keep it brief but I didn't want W to feel I was being inconsiderate . I think it's important to do a good job validating W at this time, especially if the A has been damaged or ended.

I know W is giving me bread crumbs here. Is this the right approach? Should I even be answering the phone?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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I cannot recall if you said or have described her previous calls. If they are typically non important, then you prob should miss a few calls. If she has the kids and calls by all means answer. I get what you are saying about not wanting to be "inconsiderate" but you do not want to always be available to her either. Remember, people want what they cannot have. She has to miss you and realize her actions have made you no longer her fall back safe bet. She is going to have to WANT to have you back. Just being available and taking her back now that her plan A failed is not going to get you the respect your relationship would need to survive.

Just my thoughts...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Originally Posted By: pilot
I cannot recall if you said or have described her previous calls. If they are typically non important, then you prob should miss a few calls. If she has the kids and calls by all means answer. I get what you are saying about not wanting to be "inconsiderate" but you do not want to always be available to her either. Remember, people want what they cannot have. She has to miss you and realize her actions have made you no longer her fall back safe bet. She is going to have to WANT to have you back. Just being available and taking her back now that her plan A failed is not going to get you the respect your relationship would need to survive.

Just my thoughts...


Pilot, good insight. These calls just after W's overnight shift are usually not important. They seem to really be habit for W if nothing else. I will start screening these calls tomorrow morning.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Journaling:
I had another good day. Not too much news on the MR front. I posted a picture of my kids and I from 2013 on Instagram and W wrote "Love this picture. You're such a good dad."

Both kids spent the day with my mom and W's mom. My mom knows that we are headed towards D but doesn't know the details. I asked my mom repeatedly to not talk about my MR with my W's mother.

W called to talk with kids tonight on her way to work. After speaking with D4, W tells me that her mom told her that my mom was talking about MR today with her mom and our kids.

I am furious about this because I told my mom to stay out of it and to definitely not discuss it with my W's mom. I know that I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill but that kind of meddling between families only hurts the situation I think.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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I would not harp on it. Both sets of parents most likely want you two to work it out and since you are their children they sometimes feel obligated to intervene. I doubt any good ever comes of it as a WW does not want encouragement to work on the marriage but wants validation for the choices she is making. Most parents do not usually support infidelity on the part of their children so her parents are most likely out of the loop anyways. My W def spewed venom at both of our families as they tried to "help"

Not your fault. Just take it as it is and keep moving on.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Originally Posted By: pilot
I would not harp on it. Both sets of parents most likely want you two to work it out and since you are their children they sometimes feel obligated to intervene. I doubt any good ever comes of it as a WW does not want encouragement to work on the marriage but wants validation for the choices she is making. Most parents do not usually support infidelity on the part of their children so her parents are most likely out of the loop anyways. My W def spewed venom at both of our families as they tried to "help"

Not your fault. Just take it as it is and keep moving on.

Pilot, thanks for the encouragement. I quickly realized that whatever was said between the mothers was truly a minor thing compared to the scope of all this.

I simply spent the rest of my night playing with D4 and everything settled into its right place.

Later that night, W texted to check on kids. I replied that they were wonderful. W replied by thanking me for being such a good dad.

Have a great Friday! Thanks for all your thoughts, prayers, and support.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Journaling:

Quick recap of yesterday. W called me after her work shift. I let it go to voicemail because I was talking with MIL. Immediately after calling me, W calls MIL, who tells W that she was talking with me.

Ten minutes later W calls me back. I answer. Talk briefly about kids and future camping trip plans I have with D4. I keep it brief and wish W a good day.

In the afternoon, W texts to tell me that she bought (lease) a new car because she couldn't afford the payments of her old car and now the car payments wouldn't deduct from my checking account anymore.

I replied "Cool! What'd you get?"

W responded with the type of car and mentioned the features the car had that would benefit the kids.

I replied "That's great!"

W had mentioned wanting to trade in car before. Interesting that she does it now but no big deal.

Had another good day at work and go to my discussion group Friday night.

W texts me a funny quote from D4. I don't respond. A half an hour later, W calls me and said she was worried because I didn't reply to text.

I told W I was doing great. W asked if I was having fun. I then asked about kids and I talked about tomorrow's plans for the child exchange. W then asked me if I was ok. I replied by saying I was doing great. She asked the question again later in the call and I replied the same. (Not sure why she felt the need to ask this question twice. I felt that I was carefree on the phone. Oh well, won't try to mindread.)
-----
A month after BD, I reached out to an exgirlfriend because I was feeling insecure. We texted back and forth a bit but that's it. W did question me about it a few months ago and I admitted that I talked with ex but that was it. I have since tapered off communication with ex just because I realized my motives were questionable and I didn't want to jeopardize possible MR reconciliation. Now, the exgirlfriend is a member of this discussion group and I saw her again last night. I have no feelings for ex and no intention of anything happening between us.

I feel like it's not my problem if W is suspicious about me and ex. W hasn't really mentioned it in a while and I haven't done anything wrong. Any thoughts?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Journaling:
W dropped off kids and then asked to talk with me upstairs. W hugged me and said she missed me. W asked me what I did last night. W said I smelled good and asked why I stopped wearing cologne before. W then hugged me two more times.

Later, W called from work to talk with D4 at bedtime. D4 and I were camping out in the living room. I could tell W was excited for D4 and the night I had planned. I wished W a good night and W ended call with "Love you."

I hope everyone had a great Saturday!


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Wow! That's really inspiring that you're starting to see some of those results. Keep doing what you're doing with the lrt. It's apparent it's working and if you stop based on what she says she may just be trying to test you and make sure you're still there for her and then pull away again. As of 10 days ago, she was still in an affair, wanted a divorce and possibly going to date a separate om.

A lot of time. A lot of patience. A lot of consistency. You can do this!


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M-11, T-14
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Ripken,

Thanks for the support. I agree these are encouraging signs but W has acted this way before too. I don't even know if the A is really over. Even so, it appears to be working to some extent. I agree that consistency and patience are the key to my approach.

D4 really loved our living room camp out last night. I'm really looking forward to taking the kids to the zoo this morning and just spending another wonderful day with them.

Have an inspired Sunday!


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Some notes from today...

This morning, W called 4.5 hours after shift supposedly ends (but her shift usually runs long). W tried calling twice and texting but I didn't hear phone while at zoo with kids. W said she wanted to talk with D4.

W asked D4 what she was doing and D4 told her she was at the zoo. Then W asked D4 who we were at the zoo with. D4 told her that we were with some family friends. D4 then told W she didn't want to talk with her. W seemed upset by this and asked me why D4 didn't want to talk with her. I told W that D4 was probably just distracted by the zoo.

I asked W if she was ok and she said that she was just tired. Then W asked if someone came over to my house last night. I told W that it was just me and the kids. (My hunch is that she asked this because I posted a picture to Instagram last night of me and D4 that I took with a timer on my iPhone). I then told W that I had to go because the kids were kind of rowdy. I told W that I hoped she got some rest.

W called again around 5pm to check in on kids and say hello. I told her about the kids day, W said my Instagram video was cool, but I kept it pretty brief on the phone, plus I could tell she was still tired.

W then called on her way into work to say goodnight to kids. I was laughing when W called and she asked me what was so funny. I told W that I was just playing with the kids. W talked with D4 a couple of times. As I was about to wish her a good night, W said she had a question.

W asked me for the password to the money market account (the account is in my name and I changed the password when all the drama started). W stated that we are in financial dire straits right now and we have a ton of bills that are coming in (our S1's emergency room bill, D4's school bill, and her L's retainer which W put on our Amex LOL). Plus, W said she needs it for the financial affidavit. I told W that I would have to look on my phone for the password later. W then told me again she thought it was a good idea to just use her L.

I could tell W was getting frustrated because the kids were getting loud in the background. I thanked W for being so good with the finances. W asked me to text her the account password again. I then moved towards ending the call and wished W a good and safe night at work.

I have no problem working out the family bills but I don't feel comfortable with W having the password right now. And I'm definitely not cool with using our family's money for her L. That's just crazy!

I think the best thing right now is for W and I to just sit down one night to work through the bills and we can divide up each party's share.

Then, to top it off, a few minutes ago, W texts me on some silly, unimportant work related topic. Does W really think that fifteen minutes after asking me to assist with a financial affidavit that I'm going to just carry on a silly text conversation with her?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
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Yes, she thinks exactly that. I am not sure how your finances are set up for your money market account. Who earned that money? You? Her? Both? If she has contributed to it, you cannot deny her access. If she has not but you have, then yea, I would hesitate before giving her access as you are likely to never see it again. If both of you contributed to it, then set aside what each of you contributed and split it properly.

As for her insisting you just use her L....hahaha. I do get a chuckle off of that smile

Keep it up. You seem to be doing a good job.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
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Hello Defacto,

Keep it up with the LRT, it seems to be making a positive impact on your situation.

Like Ripken, I find it inspiring.

Can you feel yourself getting stronger?

Have a great evening.

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14
Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
Divorce Final: 10/21/15
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Pilot, in regards to the money market account, I'm 99.9% I was the only person who contributed to it during MR.

Bob, I do feel myself getting stronger. I feel better mentally, I look better physically, and I'm working on detaching emotionally (but stillI still have a long way to go). I still have my weak moments of course.
---
So W texts me for the account password.

I reply with:
I will provide whatever information you need for the affidavit. I need to be more involved with the finances going forward. I'd like to sit down and help sort through the bills together.

W then calls to tell me that she doesn't understand me and that I can't deny her access to our savings. W starts berating me saying that the money market account is her money too because we got married. I simply tell W that I want to have input into how the bills are paid and I want to help her with the joint finances. W just asks why I won't give her the password. I calmly tell W that the account is in my name. W then launches into how I screwed her over because everything was in my name during MR.

I remain calm and just reply that the account is our family's money and I need to have a role in how the bills are paid going forward. I request a time to sit down to put a financial game plan together for paying bills.

W then tells me to have all my bank account passwords ready when we meet. I tell W that I will not do that and all that will get sorted out.
I move toward ending the call while W spews a few expletives my direction.

W calls again, but this time more calm, and asks why I want to hurt her. W states that these actions appear like I'm just trying to control her some more. I tell W that I have no intention of hurting her and I just reiterate that I want to be more involved and helpful with joint finances/bills. I let her talk some more and W tells me how damaging it was for all finances to be in my name only. I validate and agree that it must have been hurtful, etc.

Oh what fun!


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
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Originally Posted By: ]Defacto
Oh what fun!

Defacto,

No truer words have ever been spoken. I think you handled things perfectly. You kept on topic and didn't allow her to bait you into an argument. Way to stand tall my man!

And thanks for answering my question. I asked because it sounded like you were getting stronger, and I feel I am, too. But as you wrote, "I still have my weak moments of course."

That's what is happening with me, as well.

Keep moving forward.

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14
Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
Divorce Final: 10/21/15
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Where are her checks from the hospital deposited?

Have you ever or do you now have access to that account???

Is this one of those situations where your money is our money but her money has always been HER money???

I'm also wondering why she voluntarily signed paperwork to remove her name from joint accounts but now complains about not having access to them and wants to refer to the as OUR accounts???

Maybe you should open a separate account. A NEW account that your future paychecks will go into and MOST of all the savings would go into...then you can give her the password to the old joint account she likes to call OUR account to allow her to pay some MARITAL bills with it while NOT handing her the keys to all your money (todays $ and future $).

By the way, until you are SERVED with a divorce petition there is no rule against you spending whatever family or marital money you want on whatever you want.

Withdraw some cash and buy some new clothes, stock up your pantry and freezer with some staple foods and non-perishable items and maybe even buy a few gift cards, ostensibly to give away as gifts later on to other people.

You have changed the locks to the house??? On that line of thinking, you could pay a contractor friend or relative some cash in advance to get a couple projects done around the house.

If you divorce, you'd only have to split the marital assets that remain. Once the divorce is filed, the petition will include standing orders that neither party is to dissipate or waste the marital estate. Until then either one of you can do whatever you want with your money.

Your wife has likely had a big head start on setting herself up nicely with "OUR JOINT" money and now she wants to split the remaining money 50/50. You should look things over a bit and consider some quick small defensible actions that could balance the scales a bit if you can.


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Originally Posted By: Bob723
Originally Posted By: ]Defacto
Oh what fun!

Defacto,

No truer words have ever been spoken. I think you handled things perfectly. You kept on topic and didn't allow her to bait you into an argument. Way to stand tall my man!

And thanks for answering my question. I asked because it sounded like you were getting stronger, and I feel I am, too. But as you wrote, "I still have my weak moments of course."

That's what is happening with me, as well.

Keep moving forward.

Bob

Bob, thanks again for the encouragement! It really helps! After last night, it's hard to be hopeful for any reconciliation.

Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Where are her checks from the hospital deposited?

Have you ever or do you now have access to that account???

Is this one of those situations where your money is our money but her money has always been HER money???

I'm also wondering why she voluntarily signed paperwork to remove her name from joint accounts but now complains about not having access to them and wants to refer to the as OUR accounts???

Maybe you should open a separate account. A NEW account that your future paychecks will go into and MOST of all the savings would go into...then you can give her the password to the old joint account she likes to call OUR account to allow her to pay some MARITAL bills with it while NOT handing her the keys to all your money (todays $ and future $).

By the way, until you are SERVED with a divorce petition there is no rule against you spending whatever family or marital money you want on whatever you want.

Withdraw some cash and buy some new clothes, stock up your pantry and freezer with some staple foods and non-perishable items and maybe even buy a few gift cards, ostensibly to give away as gifts later on to other people.

You have changed the locks to the house??? On that line of thinking, you could pay a contractor friend or relative some cash in advance to get a couple projects done around the house.

If you divorce, you'd only have to split the marital assets that remain. Once the divorce is filed, the petition will include standing orders that neither party is to dissipate or waste the marital estate. Until then either one of you can do whatever you want with your money.

Your wife has likely had a big head start on setting herself up nicely with "OUR JOINT" money and now she wants to split the remaining money 50/50. You should look things over a bit and consider some quick small defensible actions that could balance the scales a bit if you can.



GB, W's hospital checks are now deposited into her separate account. My checks are deposited into my account. Up until last week, both of our checks were deposited into our joint checking account.

Despite the occasional spew, on the surface W has been fair and helpful with joint finances. However, W's demand for password is a bit suspicious. I do want to be respectful and honorable with everything going forward, even if W's behavior has not been. I have done well to protect my assets from W's knee jerk reactions. W doesn't know account numbers or passwords for the other investments either. If we D, W will get half of the marital assets no matter what. I don't plan on liquidating these.

My L advised me that I couldn't change locks on marital home at this time.

What are everybody's thoughts about dating at this time?



Edit - removed sentence since this is a public forum, it is possible that this information could be used in the future in a way that is not good for you. - Cadet


Last edited by Cadet; 04/27/15 05:19 PM. Reason: Edit - for user protection

Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Originally Posted By: Defacto
What are everybody's thoughts about dating at this time?

Get divorced first!


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Yea, you are not ready to date anyone just yet. It would not be fair to the person you go out with either. Once you truly are detached, once the actions of your W do not influence your behavior or mood, then you can think about dating. It is definitely best to be divorced first. However, if you are in a situation where your D can take a long long time, and you feel you are ready, I personally do not see any harm in it. As long as it is for YOU and not a way to try and win your W back through jealousy. Because that will just backfire in your face.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Originally Posted By: pilot
Yea, you are not ready to date anyone just yet. It would not be fair to the person you go out with either. Once you truly are detached, once the actions of your W do not influence your behavior or mood, then you can think about dating. It is definitely best to be divorced first. However, if you are in a situation where your D can take a long long time, and you feel you are ready, I personally do not see any harm in it. As long as it is for YOU and not a way to try and win your W back through jealousy. Because that will just backfire in your face.

Pilot & Cadet,
Yeah, I'm definitely not emotionally ready nor detached yet, which would certainly be unfair to any future partner. So I guess my motivations would be to create a tiny bit of jealousy but it sure would be nice to have some fun too. Just wanted to get some vet perspective on it.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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I guess my perspective is that you don't want her back with a trick, magic button or a pill.
You want her back for real.
So make the changes for YOU that are attractive and appealing, to make YOU into the person only a FOOL would leave.

Then no matter what happens you will be OK!


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Originally Posted By: Defacto
Yeah, I'm definitely not emotionally ready nor detached yet, which would certainly be unfair to any future partner. So I guess my motivations would be to create a tiny bit of jealousy but it sure would be nice to have some fun too. Just wanted to get some vet perspective on it.



Agree with Pilot and Old Cadet too.

Would you want your daughter ever going out with a guy in your position and marital status???

You are married until you are not.

Plus your kids are so young. If you eventually end up divorced if you don't hold to your convictions of standing by YOUR vows to your wife (and God) that you will stand with her "in sickness and health in good times and bad" then when the kids are older your then ex-wife can spin your dating others as equivalent to her dating others. If it's wrong for her to do it...it's wrong for you too. Saying she did it first and worst is just another rationalization and justification.

That doesn't mean I can't have some human understanding for the guy in Canada that is completely done with his wayward wife, separated, not speaking to her or seeing her at all but has to wait a year separated before he can even file for divorce. In that case, I would STILL advise against dating and certainly having any sexual relations beyond a simple kiss until the divorce is FINAL but I'd be more understanding.

Another point I'd like to make. You used the phrase "sure would be nice to have some fun too" . "TOO" means also. That's the trap of adultery. Adultery isn't fun. Your wife isn't having fun. She's conflicted. She's lost. She's isolated. She's lost you as a true friend and confidant and stuck with OM as her only friend. He is a lying cheating narcissist. She may be ACTING like she's having the time of her life and has found the fountain of youth (wayward wives tend to regress and behave like the cool mean high school girls) but deep down she is destroying her soul and laying waste to her integrity. A fully repentant wayward spouse will be repulsed by their behavior and the thought of being "fun" at all would sicken them.

The fact you are even entertaining the thoughts of dating enough to ask the question puts you at danger.

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Your children apparently have one parent that seems to NOT value commitments, vows and relationships. Her actions speak to her current values that you are disposable. If you are disposable (her soulmate) whose to say that other people including her children aren't disposable to her as well. I recommend you don't reinforce that and exhibit behavior consistent with that value throughout this ordeal you find yourself in. You may also want to consider that your wife, if you divorce, is likely to bring a parade of boyfriends and maybe even a step father or two into your children's lives reinforcing her value that HER happiness is paramount to theirs (the kids). To counter that your children could really use a parent who makes them the focal part of their lives. If you wait until the kids are teenagers to really date anyone seriously enough to bring them around your kids that may really drive home that counterpoint. Kids become adults someday and will then have the freedom of choice as to which parent they care to include in their lives or not. Making them priority number one through these years while your wife makes herself number one could be make all the difference. If and when you do remarry, you'll have to make your new wife number one (as she should be AND as a model to your children of an appropriate marital relationship) if you can wait until the kids are old enough to be begging you to find someone, then all the better, in my opinion.

Last point. I also felt the urge to punish my wife by finding someone else "better" than my wife and quickly. I fear that had we divorced I probably would have followed the typical script of angry divorced guy out there dating hard, sleeping around WAY too much (having FUN too, not! Desperate divorced guys are so cliche) and trying to lock down and marry the youngest prettiest girl I could find to show my wife it was HER that made our marriage and our relationship so hard and difficult and not me. It's the quickest way to divorce number two out there. Stand up, classy women of value DO NOT date married men. Your hurting betrayed husband of two young children schtick only works on the weakest of weak desperate women willing to throw away their integrity for a soft devastated seemingly family man who's best quality is that he needs a woman to help him with his cute kids AND he's already committed to marriage with an ill-suited woman once so he'll probably do it again.

Short little rant, huh?


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
I guess my perspective is that you don't want her back with a trick, magic button or a pill.
You want her back for real.
So make the changes for YOU that are attractive and appealing, to make YOU into the person only a FOOL would leave.

Then no matter what happens you will be OK!

Cadet, exactly right. It's all about the changes that are best for me no matter what. I need to always make sure to keep my motivations in check.

Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Originally Posted By: Defacto
Yeah, I'm definitely not emotionally ready nor detached yet, which would certainly be unfair to any future partner. So I guess my motivations would be to create a tiny bit of jealousy but it sure would be nice to have some fun too. Just wanted to get some vet perspective on it.



Agree with Pilot and Old Cadet too.

Would you want your daughter ever going out with a guy in your position and marital status???

You are married until you are not.

Plus your kids are so young. If you eventually end up divorced if you don't hold to your convictions of standing by YOUR vows to your wife (and God) that you will stand with her "in sickness and health in good times and bad" then when the kids are older your then ex-wife can spin your dating others as equivalent to her dating others. If it's wrong for her to do it...it's wrong for you too. Saying she did it first and worst is just another rationalization and justification.

That doesn't mean I can't have some human understanding for the guy in Canada that is completely done with his wayward wife, separated, not speaking to her or seeing her at all but has to wait a year separated before he can even file for divorce. In that case, I would STILL advise against dating and certainly having any sexual relations beyond a simple kiss until the divorce is FINAL but I'd be more understanding.

Another point I'd like to make. You used the phrase "sure would be nice to have some fun too" . "TOO" means also. That's the trap of adultery. Adultery isn't fun. Your wife isn't having fun. She's conflicted. She's lost. She's isolated. She's lost you as a true friend and confidant and stuck with OM as her only friend. He is a lying cheating narcissist. She may be ACTING like she's having the time of her life and has found the fountain of youth (wayward wives tend to regress and behave like the cool mean high school girls) but deep down she is destroying her soul and laying waste to her integrity. A fully repentant wayward spouse will be repulsed by their behavior and the thought of being "fun" at all would sicken them.

The fact you are even entertaining the thoughts of dating enough to ask the question puts you at danger.

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Your children apparently have one parent that seems to NOT value commitments, vows and relationships. Her actions speak to her current values that you are disposable. If you are disposable (her soulmate) whose to say that other people including her children aren't disposable to her as well. I recommend you don't reinforce that and exhibit behavior consistent with that value throughout this ordeal you find yourself in. You may also want to consider that your wife, if you divorce, is likely to bring a parade of boyfriends and maybe even a step father or two into your children's lives reinforcing her value that HER happiness is paramount to theirs (the kids). To counter that your children could really use a parent who makes them the focal part of their lives. If you wait until the kids are teenagers to really date anyone seriously enough to bring them around your kids that may really drive home that counterpoint. Kids become adults someday and will then have the freedom of choice as to which parent they care to include in their lives or not. Making them priority number one through these years while your wife makes herself number one could be make all the difference. If and when you do remarry, you'll have to make your new wife number one (as she should be AND as a model to your children of an appropriate marital relationship) if you can wait until the kids are old enough to be begging you to find someone, then all the better, in my opinion.

Last point. I also felt the urge to punish my wife by finding someone else "better" than my wife and quickly. I fear that had we divorced I probably would have followed the typical script of angry divorced guy out there dating hard, sleeping around WAY too much (having FUN too, not! Desperate divorced guys are so cliche) and trying to lock down and marry the youngest prettiest girl I could find to show my wife it was HER that made our marriage and our relationship so hard and difficult and not me. It's the quickest way to divorce number two out there. Stand up, classy women of value DO NOT date married men. Your hurting betrayed husband of two young children schtick only works on the weakest of weak desperate women willing to throw away their integrity for a soft devastated seemingly family man who's best quality is that he needs a woman to help him with his cute kids AND he's already committed to marriage with an ill-suited woman once so he'll probably do it again.

Short little rant, huh?

GB, awesome stuff! Thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail. I agree with you on all points. Well put, my friend. That's the beauty of this community:
One can post all their ill advised ramblings and get the wisdom one so dearly needs before it's too late.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Journaling:
Had a busy but productive day at work. Jogged and exercised a bit after work. Fixed the kids and I dinner. Then W calls and says that she's running late and will have her parents drop off kids at my house. No worries, I take it all in stride.

Later, W calls around her normal time to talk with D4. I'm cordial on the phone, ask W how work is, and wish W a good, safe night at work. W says many times during phone call how much she misses D4.

Then, a few minutes ago, W texts me this:
I don't like this but I live in fear of you.
I don't know what you will do to me and it really scares me.

Huh? I don't know how or if I should even respond to this.
W has no reason to fear me physically so she must be referring to financially.
Dunno. W might even be trying to bait me. Completely lost with this one...

Help?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
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So I ignore the text from W so she calls me and I ignore that call. Then W calls again. This time I answer.

W says she is afraid that I am going to screw her over. W says she is having a panic attack. I tell W that I have no intent of hurting her and tell her I will be respectful and honorable. W tells me she is afraid I will leave her with nothing and try to take the kids. I tell W that she is still the mother of our children and I don't want to do her harm. I tell W that the kids need to be with their mother too. W says that she never intended to do me harm with everything that happened. I tell W that I understand.

W then tells me that she is trying to get a transfer from her floor because everything is crazy right now.

I let W talk a bit but I also don't want to provide too much support either. I ask her to take care of herself, to be safe at work, and have a good night.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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WARNING - MIND READING AHEAD

Two Guesses

1. She is sending you a text that she can later show to her OM as a indication that she needs his protection and continued contact. Because you've exposed...OM is ignoring her at work. In order to get OM to be and/or remain her "knight in shining armor" she has to make him think you are a controlling, angry, violent bast age that she needs help and protection from (he's a doctor...they get off on helping people and solving their problems...they BE Gods, remember). It also relieves OM of responsibility if he's lead to believe you are a jerk who deserves to get cheated on.

No matter what you respond with.or even if you don't respond...she can alter it or add it and make it (your entire conversation) up and make it appear aggressive.

This could also be forwarded to OM for OM to give to his wife...who they want to keep from talking to you ever again. The story line there would be....don't talk to him. He's threatening me (OM) and his wife is scared for herself. They want OM's wife to believe you are a threat.

This made up conversation could be for her manager too. Trying to save her job by garnering fake sympathy.

2. If you cheated on her and she busted you....she KNOWS she would have flipped out. Betrayed wives are much more naturally aggressive at fighting for their spouse and getting ANGRY. She'd have called your OW's husband before she even talked to you. Therefore, she is VERY suspicious of your 180/GAL stuff where you are nice, kind and indifferent. You aren't chasing her anymore or even talking to her much. She thinks you have something up your sleeve and she can't figure it out. It's freaking her out. If this is it....it's perfect. She's focusing on you versus OM.



When guessing the behavior of drug addicts you always have to error towards the drugs. The drug is their primary relationship and everything done or said is somehow about the drug. Waywards tend to be similar which leads me to guess this more likely has something to do with the OM and her relationship with him.


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Originally Posted By: Defacto
So I ignore the text from W so she calls me and I ignore that call. Then W calls again. This time I answer.

W says she is afraid that I am going to screw her over. W says she is having a panic attack. I tell W that I have no intent of hurting her and tell her I will be respectful and honorable. W tells me she is afraid I will leave her with nothing and try to take the kids. I tell W that she is still the mother of our children and I don't want to do her harm. I tell W that the kids need to be with their mother too. W says that she never intended to do me harm with everything that happened. I tell W that I understand.

W then tells me that she is trying to get a transfer from her floor because everything is crazy right now.

I let W talk a bit but I also don't want to provide too much support either. I ask her to take care of herself, to be safe at work, and have a good night.



A good response there...

1. Well why don't we all move to ____________ and just get new jobs???

2. Heck with a new floor, why not apply at a different hospital or medical facility???


It is encouraging to read how fast things have settled down from the exposure on the 15th. It shouldn't be too long before she might be ready to TRY to reconcile, if nothing else other than for the kids, initially.

Still have to get verifiable "no contact" before it's even a possibility and a separate floor just isn't far enough away from OM to be reliable at all.


Also...so you don't get blindsided...she paid a retainer for a lawyer. You COULD get served with a divorce. It's not likely as she still sounds hopeful you'll work together with one lawyer but most lawyers spend retainers as fast as they get them and don't ever want to have to refund one.....so, they start producing and filing documents ASAP to EARN that retainer before it's too late. Be prepared emotionally to get served. It's OK. It's just a piece of paper and another step in this process of recovery OR divorce.


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Good morning all!
A quick early morning LRT, detachment question...

W calls twice last night, at 4am and at 5am. I don't answer. W sends a text that says "You obviously don't care at all." I don't respond to the text either.

I feel like this is the right approach here. W needs to realize that I'm not her to support her under these current conditions. Besides, all W will want to talk about is how she is scared I will screw her over.

If W asks, what would be a good response to the missed calls/text?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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W calls me this morning after her work shift. W tells me she had a tough night emotionally and asks me if I got her calls. I tell W that my phone was on vibrate and I didn't see them until this morning. I talk a little bit about the kids and then ask W how work was and how she's doing. W responds that work was good but she had a tough night dealing with everything with us last night. I agree with W that this has been a tough time. W then says that it is just so hard to read me these days. I don't respond to this and there is a moment of silence.

I change the subject back to how great the kids were this morning and I tell W that I have a very busy morning at work and have to run. I wish W a good day and say that maybe I'll see her later if she drops off the kids.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Defacto - that sounds awesome! The validating and STFU are amazing to read. I'm just starting to understand that concept, but I agree with other posters - she's coming to you. Even though it's divorce related or kid related, you are on her mind. As she's panicking, OM will see/notice that and then the affair isn't 100% happy fantasy land. Stuff's getting real. Will he support her or want that? Who knows. But right now, her attention is on you and you are GAL, staying busy and the LRT seems to be having an effect!


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Originally Posted By: Ripken8
Defacto - that sounds awesome! The validating and STFU are amazing to read. I'm just starting to understand that concept, but I agree with other posters - she's coming to you. Even though it's divorce related or kid related, you are on her mind. As she's panicking, OM will see/notice that and then the affair isn't 100% happy fantasy land. Stuff's getting real. Will he support her or want that? Who knows. But right now, her attention is on you and you are GAL, staying busy and the LRT seems to be having an effect!

Thanks Ripken! I'm always second guessing myself but I can feel myself getting more confident each day.

Who knows what W is thinking? I can't control that. But, this sitch has been a whole heck of a lot easier to deal with since W moved out.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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W calls to tell me that she is on the way over to drop off kids. Then W tells me that she spoke with her L today and her L told W that if I didn't agree to liquidate the money market, she would serve me D papers and sue me.

I respond by calmly saying that she can serve me the papers because I am not liquidating the account. I say that it is our family's money.

W asks me to explain my thought process because she is D'ing me and she will get half anyway. I tell W that I understand that but we are not D'd yet.

W then launches into this is why she can't stay married to me and that I am a financial terrorist and that I forced her to have sex, etc. W then brings up my talking to OM's W again and the whole stalker bit. I respond that I know that W has some valid reasons for D and she is free to proceed as she wishes. W asks me if I will be using her L. I say that I haven't even spoken with her L yet.

I can hear D4 repeating what my W is saying in the background. I ask W if we can talk about this some other time because I would like to focus on making dinner and getting ready to take care of kids.

When W drops off kids, I can tell she is mad because she will barely look at me. I just continue to smile and be cordial and wish W a safe night at work.

GB, I think I'll be getting those papers soon, rather than later. It's out of my hands. I will just continue to focus on me and the kids and remaining calm and confident.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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De facto, you are doing awesome. It's great to see your situation. I on the other hand am not. My wife is trying to kick me out of the house. It's so uncomfortable I'm not sure if staying here or separating would be best anymore. So hard to see her everyday and not interact. But if we separate lrt seems harder and with divorce going on the strategy of dragging feet and riding it out seemed to make sense.

Seems like in your case separation is helping.


M-33
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S-11, S-8
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Just my 2 cents. You really need to limit contact and conversations with your W to only kid related stuff. I know validating and what not is part of DB. But understand that there are apps on people's cell phones that record entire conversations. If you are validating her reasons for her actions those conversations may not help you should this end up in front of a judge. She is not anywhere near ready to work on the M and she seems to be baiting you quite a bit. My opinion is you need to remove yourself from those conversations completely.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Originally Posted By: Ripken8
De facto, you are doing awesome. It's great to see your situation. I on the other hand am not. My wife is trying to kick me out of the house. It's so uncomfortable I'm not sure if staying here or separating would be best anymore. So hard to see her everyday and not interact. But if we separate lrt seems harder and with divorce going on the strategy of dragging feet and riding it out seemed to make sense.

Seems like in your case separation is helping.

Rip,
Thanks again for the support. I don't think my sitch is really improving a whole lot, other than moving towards a likely conclusion. However, I do feel that I have improved. I am not familiar with the details of your sitch, but my W moving out did wonders for my emotional and mental stability.
Originally Posted By: pilot
Just my 2 cents. You really need to limit contact and conversations with your W to only kid related stuff. I know validating and what not is part of DB. But understand that there are apps on people's cell phones that record entire conversations. If you are validating her reasons for her actions those conversations may not help you should this end up in front of a judge. She is not anywhere near ready to work on the M and she seems to be baiting you quite a bit. My opinion is you need to remove yourself from those conversations completely.


Pilot, I have looked into recording the conversations also. However, my state is a two party consent state so the recordings would be inadmissible in court. As far as my W not being ready to work on M right now, I think you're right. I think yesterday's convo with W was really a power play on her part, thinking that I would simply give in to her demands. Like before, when I do not budge, W resorts to the spew. I do need to continue to steer the conversations back to the kids.

W did call once more last night to check on the kids at bedtime. The kids were asleep when she called so I told W a cute story about D4. I could tell the story cheered her up. I asked how work was going and W told me that she was nervous because the boss needed to see her about an issue with a patient from a previous night. I replied with a sincere "Oh no! That [censored]. I'm so sorry. Good luck." W shared a little more about story with patient. W then asked me to say a quick prayer for her. I told her to remember the cute story of D4 and again wished her good luck.

I know W is leaving bread crumbs here. I just think I am remaining cordial, consistent, and confident. I don't see this as pursuit. W was being vulnerable and I wanted my response to be real.

Anyway, have a great Wednesday. I am going to an outdoor festival tonight to see one of my favorite bands so I am pretty excited for that!


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Journaling:
W just called to see how the kids were last night. I was upbeat and shared a few stories from the night and morning.

Then W asked me a question about a Facebook post I made from the weekend where I posted a picture of me with the kids and a story I wrote to accompany the picture (a little creative writing exercise that brought me back to my college days). W said that the writing didn't sound like me and wondered if I posted it for some custody battle or something. I chuckled and told her that I just felt inspired to write a back story to the picture I posted.

Then W felt the need to tell me she was going to complete financial affidavit today. I told W that she could just send me over what she needed and I would get it for her. W said that wouldn't work because she didn't trust me to give the correct figures and that if I wouldn't give her the passwords, she wanted to sit next to me while I logged in. W suggested I could be funneling the money out of the accounts.

I could see where the convo was headed so I nipped it in the bud. I made a comment again about the inspirational morning I had with the kids and wished her a good day.

For someone who claims I was a "financial terrorist," W sure seems to care a lot about money now LOL.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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It seems to me that W is using the kids as an excuse to call and then talk about D matters. I almost hope she serves me papers soon so I can just tell W that my L is handling everything at this time. Is that wrong?

W texts me "Can you please try to cooperate?"
I reply with a simple "Yes."


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Journaling:
W calls while I'm on lunch. I answer and I could tell that W is groggy from waking up from sleep. I immediately ask how the kids are. W responds that she doesn't know because kids are with MIL.

W asks me what my plans are. I reply that I don't have any plans as I am not the one pursuing a D. W continues to ask if I'm funneling money out of the accounts and I advise W that I pledges to be honorable in this process. I tell W that I am aware that all assets will be divided 50/50 if things continue where they are headed.

W continues to insist I am not answering her question. I advise W that I didn't want to discuss these issues anymore at this time. I told W that she should get some rest as the kids will be excited to spend time with their mother tonight.

Moral of the story is that I shouldn't have answered the call LOL. It feels like W is just afraid I'm going to get my own L and I will fight her in a D.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Of course she is afraid you will fight it. She wants what she wants and she expects you to comply and give her everything she wants. The idea she may come out of this ordeal with less than what she envisions does not sit well with her. Trust me...I have been down this road with my W. If she calls to talk about the kids, talk about the kids. When she changes to D stuff, politely find an excuse to end the conversation. Remind her she has an attorney to handle D stuff and if he has any questions, he knows he needs to contact you, or your attorney. (of course you do not have to talk to her L or even answer the L's calls)

Last edited by pilot; 04/29/15 06:05 PM.

Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Journaling:

I had a great time last night at the concert. It was good to be out and just enjoy some great music. W called once during concert but I let it go to voicemail.

W called again this morning. She said she wanted to see how I was doing. I asked W how the kids were and we talked joyfully about some recent kid stories. W then said that she was missing me a little this morning and she said that was why she called at 4am a few nights ago too. I said thank you.

We talked a little bit more about kids and then I wished her a great day. W ended call by telling me she missed me again.

The roller coaster ride continues. This is why it's so important for me just remain consistent and calm.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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W called after work and we began talking about the day and the kids. Then after a few minutes, W asked if I would send PDFs of our account statements from the last few months to her.

Then W told me she was meeting with her L on Monday and wanted to know if I wanted to come along. I responded by saying I would have to check my schedule and I would think about it. W asked me again about me wanting D and I told her it isnt something I'm actively pursuing at this time. Then W asked if I've met with my L since a few weeks ago or paid a retainer. I reply no.

I could tell W wanted to talk more about it and wasn't satisfied with my answers but I told W that I had to leave the house and was in a hurry. W said that I'm in a hurry a lot these days.

W then texts me "I wish you would communicate with me."

And then W calls. I don't respond or answer either.
---
I don't see a problem with emailing W the account statements from last few months. I imagine she just wants to quell her suspicions that I am funneling money from these accounts. I have nothing to hide.

As far as meeting with her L, my L advised against it. I should probably wait a few days and just tell W that I can't make it.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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I forgot to say that W even said that she didn't want to handle this (the D process) all by herself.

Lol. I'm not sure what she expected, but I'm certainly not going to hold her hand through this.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
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D final: 12/01/15
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Journaling;
For some reason, I'm really missing W today. It has been tough thinking about the inevitable D. I miss her companionship and physical touch. I can GAL and fill up my free time with stuff but nothing replaces that. It makes me sad that I will most likely never experience that again with her.

I'm also really impacted today by how tough a D will be on our kids. They deserve so much better.

I'm just feeling defeated today.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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I typed up a big long post yesterday and my laptop battery died and I lost it.

The essence:

Maybe you could try something like this...

"Just wanted to let you know that I spoke to a lawyer the other day about the prudence of me using your attorney and collaborating on a divorce or each having our own and boy was I in for the hard sell. This guy was a pit bull telling me working together was absolutely a horrible idea unless I am one of those guys that basically willing to give you whatever you want hoping that by being nice you'll give me another chance. He said divorces always get ugly and the only way to proceed was to give him a $5000 retainer. Get this, he said most of his divorces cases last more than one year when small children are involved and he said he definitely would want to take depositions of your Doctor friend and your boss to make sure that you hadn't been making defamatory statements about me around town and so that any affair would be documented under oath for posterity. He said that that is important to do when small children are involved because far too often absent such documentation, in ten years, the story of the martial breakdown slowly changes to it being all the betrayed husband's fault.

I'm not ready for that kind of fight. I told him thank you for his time and I'll be in touch. I'm certainly willing to meet with your guy to see but these meetings and discussions all take a lot of time and MONEY.

You said the other day you were applying for another job on another floor. Why don't you see about another hospital or medical office. Anywhere but there and then we can just take a cooling off period of time before we proceed with any divorce case and see if our feelings change down the road here.

I say "our feelings" because I'm not exactly head over heals in love with you right now. I'm devastated by what you did to us but trying to put myself back together here. That being said, our kids deserve better from us and once you are away from Dr. Friend we COULD POSSIBLY give recovery another honest shot. It was never really fair before while you were still seeing and talking to him everyday.

What do you think?"


The keys to this:

1. Divorce will take over a year (might not be true in your state but you could likely drag it out even longer if you wanted to in most states). Waywards want a quick easy exit. The concept that it'll take a year for them to be free and single (or available for OM) is overwhelming. Sometimes a promise of a quick easy divorce if the other spouse will just commit to trying for 6 months works because an honest commitment to trying is half the battle itself. It's saying there is hope versus the common wayward justification "I could never love or be with you intimately again".

2. OM and the hospital are going to be deposed if this becomes a contested divorce. She's already wanting to move floors which indicates a motivation to leave that area. If you are possibly going to depose her boss and the OM she might as well leave all the way out of embarrassment. To recover...she has to leave...to Divorce...she has to leave....either way she has to leave so why not just do it NOW and maybe avoid the deposition(s) altogether.

3. Don't cry, beg or plead but saying you were "devastated" is important as an indication that you have emotions and care at all about her and the marriage. It's a 180 to you being stoic.

4. Goal 1...delaying the divorce Goal 2 planting seeds that her feelings may change and reconciliation is still possible. You may need to remind her that just last year she was still in love with you (card from November) and that obviously this spring her feelings for you changed. Thus, feelings aren't fact. Just because she feels NOW that she's never going to want to be married to you or in love with you again doesn't mean that's always going to be the way she feels.

5. Be confident. YOU are a good guy and she's responding to your confidence. There is no cage door holding her in. You aren't controlling her and though you'd prefer, for the kids, to give this another shot, you're going to be OK. Maybe we can give it a few months and if our marriage is going to end anyway....why not give our kids a great summer together as one last family summer??? I can plan some road trips and other trips (i.e. distractions) for all of us, no obligation to try or anything. We can just address that all in August or so. This is important as your wife just said she doesn't want to follow through with it and be responsible for it all.....be a magician and give her an excuse to procrastinate the whole thing by slight of hand...offering her a way to "escape" into a fun summer with a fun seeming you without the HEAVY relationship and divorce talk ...."for the kids".

6. In essence...tabling the divorce AND tabling reconciliation efforts until she's out of the hospital or August/September. Without OM she shouldn't be in a hurry anymore.


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Originally Posted By: Defacto
W then said that she was missing me a little this morning and she said that was why she called at 4am a few nights ago too.



This is flirting and an indication that while you are supposedly delaying the divorce and delaying reconciliation you likely could be having sex with her too under the guise of "well, we both have needs". Hysterical bonding would likely ensue but you don't discuss that with her upfront as she's NOT really that emotionally connected to you right now but her statements above indicate a desire to have sex with you as the appropriate man available to her right now versus "making love".

* she's your wife...to me there is nothing wrong with that as long as you are certain she's not having sex with anyone else (om) at the same time...it would be nice if you insisted on her getting tested first because who knows how many nurses and volunteers the Dr. OM has been banging in the hospital over the years but that gets to be a pretty dicey line of demands and questioning when trying to be cool and casual...still smart when you've got young children...don't want both of you catching something permanent. It's also important that you not be a sap about this and bug the crap out of her about sex or being too touchy feely over the top emotional about it.


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Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Originally Posted By: Defacto
W then said that she was missing me a little this morning and she said that was why she called at 4am a few nights ago too.



This is flirting and an indication that while you are supposedly delaying the divorce and delaying reconciliation you likely could be having sex with her too under the guise of "well, we both have needs". Hysterical bonding would likely ensue but you don't discuss that with her upfront as she's NOT really that emotionally connected to you right now but her statements above indicate a desire to have sex with you as the appropriate man available to her right now versus "making love".

* she's your wife...to me there is nothing wrong with that as long as you are certain she's not having sex with anyone else (om) at the same time...it would be nice if you insisted on her getting tested first because who knows how many nurses and volunteers the Dr. OM has been banging in the hospital over the years but that gets to be a pretty dicey line of demands and questioning when trying to be cool and casual...still smart when you've got young children...don't want both of you catching something permanent. It's also important that you not be a sap about this and bug the crap out of her about sex or being too touchy feely over the top emotional about it.


GB, I don't know if this was really her flirting or her wanting to have sex with me. When W tried calling me at 4 and 5 in the morning a couple of days ago, she was at work so it wasn't like she woke up desiring me sexually. We have had sex only twice since BD. Plus, I really don't know if W has stopped A or started with an OM2.



Journaling:
W just left from my house after picking up the kids. I have no idea what W did last night and I didn't ask. She brought lunch over for the kids and I. W was her for about an hour or so. We talked casually about meaningless stuff and had an enjoyable time. Then W asked if would be able to meet with her and her L on Monday. I told W that I wouldn't be able to make it because I have a busy day at work. W said she understood and did say any more about it. W then asked if I could email her the account statements from our investments so she could fill out the financial affidavit. I said sure.

I helped load the kids in the car. I told W to have a great night with the kids. W put her arms out to give me a hug. While giving me a hug, W said, "Why do you have to smell so good?" I didn't respond.

I had a great day with the kids and plan to go see a movie tonight with some friends. I hope everybody's Saturday is going well.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Picked up kids from W this afternoon. Spent some time together with kids and W in the front yard. W complimented my outfit that I had left on from church. W later gave me a hug, held it for about 10-20 seconds, and said it was good to see me. I told W it was good to see her too.

Once we got kids loaded into my car, W, her parents, and I spent some talking laughing and talking around the car. I leaned in, touched W on the arm, and wished her some rest and a good night at work. W said thank you and appeared to genuinely mean it. I finished buckling up the kids and W gave me a goodbye hug. I again wished her a safe night at work. It was a brief but positive encounter.

My intent today was to do a slight 180 and to add a little physical touch to our interactions. It seemed to go well. W is going to have to begin feeling some connection with me again. I think I can only take the stoic approach so far.

Apparently, W no longer intends to call to check on kids like she usually does on her work nights. Not sure why this change and I can't worry about it either. Just an observation.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Mar 2015
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W did end up calling last night from work. W stated that she knew the kids were asleep but she wanted to see how they were doing. I responded with joy when I described our afternoon together. I then asked W how work was going and we talked briefly about her night. We ended call and W said, "Call me if you need anything."

Also, I emailed W all the copies of our investment statements that she had been asking for so she could fill out the financial affidavit. She replied, "Wow. Thank you so much."

This morning, W texted me a video of D4 from 3 years ago.

I guess the question I have now is if this approach is succeeding in making meaningful connections with W OR securely placing me in the friend zone, making decision to D me that much easier?

I know W has an appointment with her L today at 2. We'll see what comes of that.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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W called around 11am to ask me some clarifying questions on the investment statements I sent by email yesterday. W also asked how the kids were last night and this morning. W said that she was waiting for a life insurance person to show up at her parent's house. Not sure what this is about, probably nothing...

W texts me later to see if I would look into a childcare subsidy from my job.

W then texts: I'm working through this financial stuff and it's making me so sad.
I reply: I know. I'm pretty devastated by it too.
W replies: I'm so sorry. I never would have thought this could happen to us of all people.

Fifteen minutes later, W calls to see how I'm doing. I tell W I am doing well and I am on a hike. W starts to cry. W then tells me that she is sorry, never expected this to happen to us, it all happened so fast, and is worried about me. I tell W that I am devastated by everything and for the kids, but I will be ok. I tell W thanks for thinking of me.

I listen to W cry and talk and give her time. I then tell W that I want her to be happy and I know that she will make the best decision for her. We talk about the kids some more and W says she will try hard to be a good mom to our kids. I tell W that I know she will be.

I tell W that I'm sorry she is having a tough time and to call if she needs anything. W replies with you too.

What do you guys think? Good approach? Bad approach?

I'm trying to show a little more emotion, be more vulnerable.
Plus, I wanted to throw that line in there about trusting W to make the right decision for her. It came from a book I'm reading called Getting Back Together. I think saying things like that is a 180 from my tendency to devalue her personhood in our MR.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
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Hello? Anybody out there?

My W removed her cell phone from our joint plan but for some reason, I still have access to her phone records. I decided to check W's phone records to get some intel on level of contact with OM. What I found was that following the exposure of the A to OM's W, there is next to no phone calls between W and OM. Then there are a few outgoing calls to OM near the end of April. Then what I see near the end of April are outgoing calls every other day or so from a doctor's office located where I know OM works.
So this is either OM going underground a bit or a new OM. My money is on the OM just trying to hide his calls to my W from his W.

There is no way to track the text messaging however as they both have iMessage.

Moral of the story is that there is still contact with OM. Obviously, this [censored]. However, it also indicates that my W is still in an A induced fog and I just need to stay on my present course. The exposure of the A certainly impacted it.

Obviously, OM is trying to hide A from his W. It is pretty disgusting that my W is willing to destroy our MR and family over an OM that isn't willing to even stand up to his own W.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Might be the perfect opportunity to text the OM's wife nicely with some carefully worded niceties that I mentioned before and then asking if she recognizes the following phone number that's been calling your wife's cell phone at {give approximate times and dates ]. Mention you were encouraged because the phone calls between OM's cell phone and your wife's had stopped for several weeks but these calls made you suspicious and that's the only reason for the text (you are seemingly respecting her apparent wish to not communicate unless it's important in a calm fashion).

You MIGHT end up losing this source of monitoring your wife but you really can't reconcile while they work together anyway. Her leaving that job (or OM leaving) just has to happen. There's no way you can be expected to sit around trusting her at that job when you know OM is around. It's unfair to you and unfair for you to be expected to tolerate it. It's got to be a firm boundary. I think she'll only leave the job if the affair is actually over so it's a pretty solid litmus test. Hopefully this recent contact is just some closure contact. Closure contacts [censored] and is completely stupid, unreasonable and hurtful but it's hopefully them just checking in with each other, how the lying is going for OM and TRYING to end it versus secret affair bliss.

They might think you've key logged her phone versus having a copy of the bill still. Giving approximate times might help mislead them that you weren't looking at the bill. If you lose access, oh well, that's hours of your day not staring and refreshing a cell phone bill saved.

She may be buying his lies but when she questions him whether he's talked to your wife by phone and he denies it....she may realize she's being lied to and put the screws to OM harder.


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Originally Posted By: Defacto
W called around 11am to ask me some clarifying questions on the investment statements I sent by email yesterday. W also asked how the kids were last night and this morning. W said that she was waiting for a life insurance person to show up at her parent's house. Not sure what this is about, probably nothing...

W texts me later to see if I would look into a childcare subsidy from my job.

W then texts: I'm working through this financial stuff and it's making me so sad.
I reply: I know. I'm pretty devastated by it too.
W replies: I'm so sorry. I never would have thought this could happen to us of all people.

Fifteen minutes later, W calls to see how I'm doing. I tell W I am doing well and I am on a hike. W starts to cry. W then tells me that she is sorry, never expected this to happen to us, it all happened so fast, and is worried about me. I tell W that I am devastated by everything and for the kids, but I will be ok. I tell W thanks for thinking of me.

I listen to W cry and talk and give her time. I then tell W that I want her to be happy and I know that she will make the best decision for her. We talk about the kids some more and W says she will try hard to be a good mom to our kids. I tell W that I know she will be.

I tell W that I'm sorry she is having a tough time and to call if she needs anything. W replies with you too.

What do you guys think? Good approach? Bad approach?

I'm trying to show a little more emotion, be more vulnerable.
Plus, I wanted to throw that line in there about trusting W to make the right decision for her. It came from a book I'm reading called Getting Back Together. I think saying things like that is a 180 from my tendency to devalue her personhood in our MR.



I think this is encouraging. Like that you used the word "devastating". You may next want her to just put the divorce on delay mode because as soon as she gives the lawyers the green light....that money/retainer is GONE. They will have their secretary draft the documents and whether she files or not...the document preparation will end up totaling about the amount of the retainer. Just a couple weeks or months. She can already see her feelings are changing from hate and bitterness to just not absolutely sure. Why not give it a little time. She's got the rest of her life to be divorced.

It's NOT saying or committing to reconcile. Just some time...maybe give the kids one last summer together.....

THEN...distract her by saying "you want to come hiking with us this weekend".

Waywards LOVE to procrastinate and avoid reality. Only stay heavy or sad for a couple of minutes and then divert to something fun.


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Woke up today and decided to check my W's phone records one last time. Saw that the doctor's office made a 24 minute phone call yesterday afternoon. It's pretty clear to me now, some manifestation of the A is still going on. Pretty sure I don't have any more reason to check those phone records for a while.
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Might be the perfect opportunity to text the OM's wife nicely with some carefully worded niceties that I mentioned before and then asking if she recognizes the following phone number that's been calling your wife's cell phone at {give approximate times and dates ]. Mention you were encouraged because the phone calls between OM's cell phone and your wife's had stopped for several weeks but these calls made you suspicious and that's the only reason for the text (you are seemingly respecting her apparent wish to not communicate unless it's important in a calm fashion).

You MIGHT end up losing this source of monitoring your wife but you really can't reconcile while they work together anyway. Her leaving that job (or OM leaving) just has to happen. There's no way you can be expected to sit around trusting her at that job when you know OM is around. It's unfair to you and unfair for you to be expected to tolerate it. It's got to be a firm boundary. I think she'll only leave the job if the affair is actually over so it's a pretty solid litmus test. Hopefully this recent contact is just some closure contact. Closure contacts [censored] and is completely stupid, unreasonable and hurtful but it's hopefully them just checking in with each other, how the lying is going for OM and TRYING to end it versus secret affair bliss.

They might think you've key logged her phone versus having a copy of the bill still. Giving approximate times might help mislead them that you weren't looking at the bill. If you lose access, oh well, that's hours of your day not staring and refreshing a cell phone bill saved.

She may be buying his lies but when she questions him whether he's talked to your wife by phone and he denies it....she may realize she's being lied to and put the screws to OM harder.




I'm not sure I'm ready or wanting to travel down this road again. I would feel different if OM's W decided to stay in contact with me. I will think about this some more though.
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Originally Posted By: Defacto
W called around 11am to ask me some clarifying questions on the investment statements I sent by email yesterday. W also asked how the kids were last night and this morning. W said that she was waiting for a life insurance person to show up at her parent's house. Not sure what this is about, probably nothing...

W texts me later to see if I would look into a childcare subsidy from my job.

W then texts: I'm working through this financial stuff and it's making me so sad.
I reply: I know. I'm pretty devastated by it too.
W replies: I'm so sorry. I never would have thought this could happen to us of all people.

Fifteen minutes later, W calls to see how I'm doing. I tell W I am doing well and I am on a hike. W starts to cry. W then tells me that she is sorry, never expected this to happen to us, it all happened so fast, and is worried about me. I tell W that I am devastated by everything and for the kids, but I will be ok. I tell W thanks for thinking of me.

I listen to W cry and talk and give her time. I then tell W that I want her to be happy and I know that she will make the best decision for her. We talk about the kids some more and W says she will try hard to be a good mom to our kids. I tell W that I know she will be.

I tell W that I'm sorry she is having a tough time and to call if she needs anything. W replies with you too.

What do you guys think? Good approach? Bad approach?

I'm trying to show a little more emotion, be more vulnerable.
Plus, I wanted to throw that line in there about trusting W to make the right decision for her. It came from a book I'm reading called Getting Back Together. I think saying things like that is a 180 from my tendency to devalue her personhood in our MR.



I think this is encouraging. Like that you used the word "devastating". You may next want her to just put the divorce on delay mode because as soon as she gives the lawyers the green light....that money/retainer is GONE. They will have their secretary draft the documents and whether she files or not...the document preparation will end up totaling about the amount of the retainer. Just a couple weeks or months. She can already see her feelings are changing from hate and bitterness to just not absolutely sure. Why not give it a little time. She's got the rest of her life to be divorced.

It's NOT saying or committing to reconcile. Just some time...maybe give the kids one last summer together.....

THEN...distract her by saying "you want to come hiking with us this weekend".

Waywards LOVE to procrastinate and avoid reality. Only stay heavy or sad for a couple of minutes and then divert to something fun.


GB, I have to admit I'm a little discouraged by my latest piece of intel. It stinks to know that the A is still going on AND I will probably get served. W knows I don't want a D however if she continues to open up emotionally about it, I might suggest putting the D on ice for now.

I'm not giving up in the least, just feeling overwhelmed with knowing I am fighting the A and the D. I can't control W or how she feels. But I have taken this time to read a few more relationship books ( we can talk about these if anyone wants to ).


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
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Also, any advice on how to handle Mother's Day?

D4 painted a coffee mug for W. Plus I want to get a card for W from the kids. W works overnight so I was thinking of asking W to come over after her shift to give her the mug and card. I was contemplating D4 and I making breakfast for W also.

Too much? I will say that everything was from the kids.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Posts: 569
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So, just got a text from W inviting me to dinner tonight with the kids. Her treat. Even though I had plans, I think it is important to respond affirmatively if W reaches out, especially now.

I need to reply pretty soon. What do you guys think?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
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I accepted my W's invitation for dinner. I plan to be upbeat, confident, and friendly.

However, I do have a question. Do you think W is using this as a way to serve me D papers or something? It is suspiciously close to her meeting with L yesterday.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 290
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Can I just ask when it's time to start a new tread? How do I know? smile


M: 44 H: 43
ILYBNILWY: 7/4-15 Decided to try to reconnect.
"This doesn't work, I have no feelings": 20/4-15
Scheduled "talk" :9/5-15
It's over: 9/5
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I think you should try to stick to the plan of being upbeat and friendly. As far as I know from others DB much more experienced than me, just validate her feelings and don't talk of yours..

But I could be wrong.. Sure you'll get more advice before long! smile

If she hands you D papers, I think you should take them without much fuss but maybe just say that you understand how hard for her to do this, and not much else.. I've gotten the advice to to think things through before I meet my STBX and that is what I'll do. I'm going to write down some things I think he's going to say, and how I'll reply if he does.
Maybe that could be something for you to try too..

Sorry if I'm harping on with stuff you already know, haven't read much of your stitch yet..

All my best, and good luck! smile


M: 44 H: 43
ILYBNILWY: 7/4-15 Decided to try to reconnect.
"This doesn't work, I have no feelings": 20/4-15
Scheduled "talk" :9/5-15
It's over: 9/5
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Originally Posted By: Tulo
I think you should try to stick to the plan of being upbeat and friendly. As far as I know from others DB much more experienced than me, just validate her feelings and don't talk of yours..

But I could be wrong.. Sure you'll get more advice before long! smile

If she hands you D papers, I think you should take them without much fuss but maybe just say that you understand how hard for her to do this, and not much else.. I've gotten the advice to to think things through before I meet my STBX and that is what I'll do. I'm going to write down some things I think he's going to say, and how I'll reply if he does.
Maybe that could be something for you to try too..

Sorry if I'm harping on with stuff you already know, haven't read much of your stitch yet..

All my best, and good luck! smile

Thanks for the advice! I will definitely sit down and try to work through some scenarios. With the kids going to be there, I will definitely encourage W to keep D talk limited. I will stay calm, confident, and cordial.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Sounds like a brilliant plan!! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. Go there and try to be the man she fell in love with, even if it's hard. If you need to, give a performance worthy of an Oscar.

I'm gonna try that on Saturday when we are going to have "the talk"..

All my best! smile


M: 44 H: 43
ILYBNILWY: 7/4-15 Decided to try to reconnect.
"This doesn't work, I have no feelings": 20/4-15
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Originally Posted By: Defacto
I accepted my W's invitation for dinner. I plan to be upbeat, confident, and friendly.

However, I do have a question. Do you think W is using this as a way to serve me D papers or something? It is suspiciously close to her meeting with L yesterday.


I doubt she's "serve" you over dinner with the kids. You never know. It really wouldn't be a "service" type situation where she touches you with the paperwork and says "ha, gotcha, consider yourself served" since she doesn't have the legal authority to actually serve you (she's not a court officer and she's a party to the action and unreliable witness to such service). Instead, she COULD ask you to accept the paperwork and sign off that you received them and waive a more formal service of process. You don't have to sign and then she'd have to go the service of process route (which is what I'd suggest you do with the statement that you want nothing to do with a divorce and won't simply roll over and acquiesce to one but you've been going a much more conciliatory route yourself telling her you WILL be cooperative so it's really your call whether you accept the papers or make her pay for and have you served formally by a process server).

I like how you say you plan "to be" upbeat and confident versus just planing "to act" upbeat and confident and really why shouldn't you be? You've already proven to yourself that you can handle this one way or another. Sure you'd LIKE to reconcile but you aren't going to accept a crap sandwich either. Your wife doesn't get to total your car, bump it out, through some bondo on it with an Earl Schibe paint job and call it even.... you want a BETTER marriage out of this and she is either going to loving and respectful towards you or you'll just be moving on yourself. YOU are the catch here...the faithful, upstanding, great father who could have and will do better in the husband department with her (or with someone else eventually). Also...she will NEVER have another man in her life that would love her enough to be willing to reconcile with her after she cheated....NEVER.

Word of caution though...she could just be getting her needs met and her guilt relieved by rebuilding this "friendship" and partnership with you....for the kids and still have no true feelings yet of recovering with you. I've seen these situations go either way where couples like this dive into reconciliation or you get served the next day. Doesn't mean you can't still work for the goal and that that goal isn't achievable...but she IS still in contact with OM and you don't know the extent of that contact. They could be ending it peacefully and just checking in with each other mistakenly thinking they can remain friends. OM's are usually told stories about how awful the husband is so he's concerned she is safe and well. OR....they are arranging secret rendezvous and plotting their moves carefully as OM positions himself financially to divorce his wife to be with yours and your wife keeps working the quick friendly divorce angle. Point is...no expectations. Even if she throws herself at you and SAYS all the right things....until there is "NO CONTACT" you haven't achieved anything.

Any talk of reconciliation you do have with her needs to begin and end with:

"The first step and move in on you because until you get out of that hospital we really can't 'try' to recover"

"I'm perfectly wiling to try once I know you aren't seeing him at work anymore"

"I'm fine with delaying the divorce while we figure out our feelings and you try to find a new job but I'm not really willing to put my heart on the chopping block again as long as you are still working with and talking to OM"

"Imagine {x) years ago back when you still loved me and I was working at xyz company...If I had told you I had an affair with [insert name of employee you worked with] do you think you'd have been comfortable with me continuing to work with and see her everyday at work? Though I wish you'd just quit the job and come home now I understand this is a process and I'm willing to table the divorce AND seriously trying to reconcile until you get out of that hospital."

*this is crafty...you are telling her that YOU are willing to wait on the divorce...plus your indicating you want to delay the divorce AND serious reconciliation efforts but that doesn't preclude hanging out together and just having fun while your confident and fun to be around (which IS reconciliation without her even knowing it's happen because when you hang out with someone and spend a lot of time with them you can't help feeling connected to them and "in love".

*Still think the scary divorce attorney you interviewed that wants to depose OM is a good tactical story to tell. If she goes the divorce route she and OM are certainly going to have to tell the entire story of the affair under oath in a deposition at some point. You are entitled to the truth about your life.

*If things get ugly and she wants to lie that she hasn't spoken to OM at all you could say that OM's wife called you and told you that OM was calling her last week from that work number you discovered. They will crap their pants that you know this, that OM's wife is communicating with you supposedly (and snooping thoroughly on her husband which they won't speak of) and you MAY get a good indication of what's going on by her reaction. If she's REALLY ugly and defensive the affair continues on the worse side of the spectrum...if she's not that mad and comes clean about the conversation after getting caught lying maybe (MAYBE...can't believe what you hear) it's the truth that it's ending.

I hope it's over. OM's usually dump their paramours once exposed because they have too much to answer for at home with their wife and family to bother carrying on a dangerous workplace affair that was never intended to be more than that..


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In front of the kids:

"Hey kids, should mom quit her job and move home?? What do ya think?""

I know, too much but don't you just want to slap some sense into these way ward's heads? Your kids would go NUTS for that proposal with a resounding "YES".

If only it were that easy.


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Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Originally Posted By: Defacto
I accepted my W's invitation for dinner. I plan to be upbeat, confident, and friendly.

However, I do have a question. Do you think W is using this as a way to serve me D papers or something? It is suspiciously close to her meeting with L yesterday.


Word of caution though...she could just be getting her needs met and her guilt relieved by rebuilding this "friendship" and partnership with you....for the kids and still have no true feelings yet of recovering with you. I've seen these situations go either way where couples like this dive into reconciliation or you get served the next day. Doesn't mean you can't still work for the goal and that that goal isn't achievable...but she IS still in contact with OM and you don't know the extent of that contact. They could be ending it peacefully and just checking in with each other mistakenly thinking they can remain friends. OM's are usually told stories about how awful the husband is so he's concerned she is safe and well. OR....they are arranging secret rendezvous and plotting their moves carefully as OM positions himself financially to divorce his wife to be with yours and your wife keeps working the quick friendly divorce angle. Point is...no expectations. Even if she throws herself at you and SAYS all the right things....until there is "NO CONTACT" you haven't achieved anything.

Any talk of reconciliation you do have with her needs to begin and end with:

"The first step and move in on you because until you get out of that hospital we really can't 'try' to recover"

"I'm perfectly wiling to try once I know you aren't seeing him at work anymore"

"I'm fine with delaying the divorce while we figure out our feelings and you try to find a new job but I'm not really willing to put my heart on the chopping block again as long as you are still working with and talking to OM"

"Imagine {x) years ago back when you still loved me and I was working at xyz company...If I had told you I had an affair with [insert name of employee you worked with] do you think you'd have been comfortable with me continuing to work with and see her everyday at work? Though I wish you'd just quit the job and come home now I understand this is a process and I'm willing to table the divorce AND seriously trying to reconcile until you get out of that hospital."

*this is crafty...you are telling her that YOU are willing to wait on the divorce...plus your indicating you want to delay the divorce AND serious reconciliation efforts but that doesn't preclude hanging out together and just having fun while your confident and fun to be around (which IS reconciliation without her even knowing it's happen because when you hang out with someone and spend a lot of time with them you can't help feeling connected to them and "in love".

*Still think the scary divorce attorney you interviewed that wants to depose OM is a good tactical story to tell. If she goes the divorce route she and OM are certainly going to have to tell the entire story of the affair under oath in a deposition at some point. You are entitled to the truth about your life.

*If things get ugly and she wants to lie that she hasn't spoken to OM at all you could say that OM's wife called you and told you that OM was calling her last week from that work number you discovered. They will crap their pants that you know this, that OM's wife is communicating with you supposedly (and snooping thoroughly on her husband which they won't speak of) and you MAY get a good indication of what's going on by her reaction. If she's REALLY ugly and defensive the affair continues on the worse side of the spectrum...if she's not that mad and comes clean about the conversation after getting caught lying maybe (MAYBE...can't believe what you hear) it's the truth that it's ending.

I hope it's over. OM's usually dump their paramours once exposed because they have too much to answer for at home with their wife and family to bother carrying on a dangerous workplace affair that was never intended to be more than that..




GB, well written, sir! Thanks so much. I can always count on you for a timely response.

Not that I could pretend to know or understand W's thoughts right now, but I think this is an act of guilt relief on her part. Especially when combined with her tearful conversation yesterday. Either way, I will hold steady.

In regards to "being" upbeat instead of "acting" upbeat around W, it is fairly easy because I do enjoy her company and I know I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Here are a couple of responses I've put together so far...
-W wants to talk about D.
"I think it's best for the kids to not do that here. Let's just have some fun tonight."
-W wants to talk about bills/finances/etc
"Thanks so much for all your hard work on splitting up the bills. Let me know what you need from me."
-W serves me D papers
"I know this was really difficult for you. I will look this over later."
-W wants to talk about MR, say "it happened so fast," or apologize
"I agree it all happened so fast. It seemed just like yesterday we were talking about our future together."
And, if appropriate,"maybe we can take a break from D stuff for now and just spend one last summer together for the kids."

I really want this to be a friendly and fun encounter, free from confrontation, if possible. All of our recent exchanges have been going well, so we'll see.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Originally Posted By: Defacto

-W serves me D papers
"I know this was really difficult for you. I will look this over later."


A real man and father would cry in this situation. You don't have to be stoic here or brave for her. Her handing you divorce papers and asking to you accept them and waive process at a dinner date she invited you to with the kids (saying "my treat") is an incredibly hurtful thing to throw on someone. They can be mailed to you or emailed with a note telling you what it is but doing that face to face is over the top and designed to SEE if you react. I actually think your proposed action above would be what she expects. She doesn't see you as caring at all and saying that only confirm it.

Instead...I think you should let your emotions show a little more honestly. Don't break down but being overcome a moment with emotion and obviously fighting back a tear would be how an emotionally invested healthy man/father/husband would react. You MAY excuse yourself to the bathroom so as to communicate clearly that you are devastated to her but leaving the kids to enjoy their evening out with their parents.

Don't cry, beg or plead for her to change her mind or anything like that. You aren't TRYING to make her feel guilty but getting handed divorce papers is a monumental moment in one's life and she doesn't control your emotions anymore. You don't have to hold it in for her. If she feels bad...that's on her.

I THINK you'd have to sign so even if you take the papers...refuse to sign the waiver saying "I refuse to be a complicit participant in the destruction of our family". If you want my cooperation, give the kids and I 6 months to see if we feel any differently. I see no reason to rush this. I can't imagine a world where there is no {your first name and her first name].


Remember - NO EXPECTATIONS

*you probably won't talk about any of this stuff and just have a nice evening with the kids. It doesn't have to be heavy but getting her to delay the divorce and save that retainer money sooner than later is something you can't conflict avoid yourself out of discussing...however briefly.


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Welp, it looks like ol' Defacto is about to get served D papers.

The night started out great. I help W get the kids out of the car. W hugged and said I smelled good. I already had a table reserved at the restaurant. However, as we were walking up to the restaurant, I knew something would be up because W had her planner and a folder in her hand. But, I ignored it for the time being. I asked W how her day went. We talked about the kids. We talked about the holiday. We laughed and were having a great time. I was smiling a lot, making eye contact, etc.

At one point in the conversation, W says something like, "Well, we know where this is headed."
I replied, "What do you mean?"
W then said that she wanted to talk about a parenting plan.
I said ok but with reservation. W started talking about holidays and how it was good to get it all sorted out now so both of our future new families can adapt, etc.
I stopped W and asked, "How is it so easy for you to talk about the end of us?"
W said that she had to be because we were in a public place.
In response, I said that I was having a great time tonight and I thought it best to talk about this some other time.
W agreed with me.

We continued with our dinner, I continued to remain upbeat/positive, and soon it was time to go. I offered to split the bill but W insisted on treating. I helped load the kids in W's car and walked over to W's side of the car to give D4 a kiss.

W then stood next to me and asked me when would be a good time for me to be served. W said that she didn't want to do it while I was at work or with the kids. I repeated again that this was devastating. W hugged me.

I asked W what the rush was? I asked W why we couldn't slow everything down over the summer for the sake of the kids? W responded that things have only gotten worse and uglier as time has passed. W stated that this is what she has wanted since December. I reminded W that feelings can change. W then told me that my reputation was still intact but that her's has been "dragged through the mud." W stated that she would have to start over, make new friends, and that all areas of her life were impacted, including her job. At this point, I didn't want to beg or plead so I just listened to W and looked into her eyes and so I understood.

The conversation winded down and I gave the kids another kiss.
W hugged me again and kissed me on the cheek. I thanked her for dinner and said I had a great time. I smiled and waved goodbye.

A few minutes ago, W texts me "Thanks for meeting for dinner. I really enjoyed it."


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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I actually think that went kind of well. You shared your feelings without being overly emotional and her objections, rationalizations and justifications are amazingly flimsy.

Her reputation has to be rebuilt "starting over" either way, she destroyed her own reputation by having an affair so of course yours is intact.

How exactly is filing for divorce going to stop or otherwise slow down "things getting worse and uglier as time has passed"?

She just doesn't appear to have anything close to solid upon which to hang her hat on. Many way wards have at least a couple of things, like that time you looked at porn (and they call you a porn addict) or that time you shoved them away from you (while they were trying to slap you) as an indication you are just too abusive. Whatever, I FEEL your wife is softening and gaining empathy for you MAYBE as she seems to want to help you through this process (and in so doing come to the realization that you actually care deeply about her more than anyone ever has....which SHE has to realize on her own without you telling her).

Don't fret the divorce action. Sure it's one step closer to being divorced but by the time the divorce actually happens, IF it happens, you'll pretty much be ready for it. Plenty of divorces never finish.

If you were my friend and I was consoling you over a beer I'd encourage you to answer her divorce petition aggressively. I HOPE she files requesting 50/50 custody (don't be shocked if it's not...many attorneys will start out asking for 100% or primary looking to negotiate down to 50/50 from there versus getting caught off guard asking for 50/50 and then realizing the other side is going to counter requesting 100% with supervised visitation. Again...you've already set a pretty laid back cooperative posture which may be OK as a hope for marital reconciliation plan but if you were my buddy, I'd tell you to counter asking for at least primary custody with her getting every other weekend and wednesday nights.

Honestly, she's NOT a very good parent. A good parent doesn't have affairs with married doctors at work jeopardizing their marriages, careers, integrity and families. A good parent doesn't throw away the father of their children to seek out their happiness. A good parent doesn't subject their children to consequences of divorce. A good parent doesn't subject their children to a parade of other men and step fathers needlessly. A good parent doesn't disrespect their vows to God and then, once exposed not fix it and model appropriate behavior for their children how to behave when you've messed up.

Your children are better off raised by you. You are the primary parent concerned about THEIR best interests right now. She hasn't been for awhile. You had them thinking you'd have 100% custody. Your wife had an affair and is (maybe) leaving you...why is she entitled to take away 50% of your custody of the kids??? She's not....

It doesn't hurt your case to simply ask for primary custody. You can hide behind your attorney and say "that's what he/she said I needed to do and I don't want to discuss it". She will have to face herself and look in the mirror and realize that she COULD lose the case and lose even more time with her children and face the inner questions of whether she truly deserves to lose more custody of her kids.

This also depends on the state. You may not want to risk getting contentious like this in a state where you aren't essentially guaranteed at least 50/50 as a dad. Some states are just way to mom leaning to risk alienating a wayward wife that wants to play nice. There is also money considerations and custody cases can get expensive but those are reasons that delaying the divorce, making it a battle, end up leading towards reconciliation. When the addict hits rock bottom, they sometimes climb out of the hole, see the destruction THEY caused all around them and REPENT. If you make this too easy for her...she'll just go with the flow. You can always settle later on back at 50/50 or whatever she's proposing today. if it's fine today...it'll be fine for her later on to.


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GB,
Thanks again for the support. You have been a friend to me through this miss. Sending a virtual Fat Tire your way, brother.

Now is not the time to be congratulating myself, but I do feel that it went fairly well. I did and said all the things I wanted to do. I wanted to have fun together with the kids. And per W's text message, she enjoyed it too. It is hard to ignore that there was talk of D and of W looking at new houses but I just have to take all of that in stride.

You bring great points about child custody that I haven't considered. However, one reason I don't want child custody to get contentious is that the kids deserve the possible situation if this leads to D. And the best possible situation for them, I believe, requires W and I to have a workable relationship. If I fight for majority custody, which I feel like I might be justified to do, I don't believe it ends well for a co parenting relationship of W and I post divorce. Plus, I know W will resort to those bogus accusations against me that she was throwing around days after I exposed the A to OM's W. We'll see though. Everything is certainly fluid right now. It all depends on what is those pending D papers.

As far as my approach towards W is concerned, I really don't think I need to change anything. W is obviously not wanting to work on M. I just need to continue to move forward on self improvement and detachment. I need to be the best father I can to my wonderful kids. If W calls or I see W, I will be confident, calm, and cordial, yet I will be vulnerable when appropriate.

Am I missing anything?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 290
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Think you did very well, considering the circumstance!
It must have been very hard to hear her say these things..

Big hug coming your way!


M: 44 H: 43
ILYBNILWY: 7/4-15 Decided to try to reconnect.
"This doesn't work, I have no feelings": 20/4-15
Scheduled "talk" :9/5-15
It's over: 9/5
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
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Thanks Tulo! I appreciate the support.

And good luck to you this Saturday! How are you doing with your prep work?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Originally Posted By: Defacto
GB,
Thanks again for the support. You have been a friend to me through this miss. Sending a virtual Fat Tire your way, brother.

Now is not the time to be congratulating myself, but I do feel that it went fairly well. I did and said all the things I wanted to do. I wanted to have fun together with the kids. And per W's text message, she enjoyed it too. It is hard to ignore that there was talk of D and of W looking at new houses but I just have to take all of that in stride.

You bring great points about child custody that I haven't considered. However, one reason I don't want child custody to get contentious is that the kids deserve the possible situation if this leads to D. And the best possible situation for them, I believe, requires W and I to have a workable relationship. If I fight for majority custody, which I feel like I might be justified to do, I don't believe it ends well for a co parenting relationship of W and I post divorce. Plus, I know W will resort to those bogus accusations against me that she was throwing around days after I exposed the A to OM's W. We'll see though. Everything is certainly fluid right now. It all depends on what is those pending D papers.

As far as my approach towards W is concerned, I really don't think I need to change anything. W is obviously not wanting to work on M. I just need to continue to move forward on self improvement and detachment. I need to be the best father I can to my wonderful kids. If W calls or I see W, I will be confident, calm, and cordial, yet I will be vulnerable when appropriate.

Am I missing anything?


Like I said, be prepared for her divorce papers to actually BE aggressive and make those assertions about you anyway. Especially if you've got some stuff on her she and her attorney MIGHT NOT want to chance going the nice route only to be shocked by you filings aggressively (see it would be hard for her to amend a nice divorce petition asking for 50/50 and then amend it saying "he's a danger to me and my kids" after that).

Another thought. What your wife is doing to you is abusive. Infidelity is abuse. By going along with it and being so nice to her now and after any divorce exactly what are you modeling to your children? Do you want your children to learn that they should just swallow and accept spousal (or boyfriend/girlfrind) abuse for the good of the family or relationship? That they should rock the boat and they should set aside their feelings and thoughts for everyone else because everyone else matters more than them? Besides, your wife technically isn't co-parenting at all. Like I said above, your wife is an unfit parent right now and if she divorces you she'll remain an pretty unfit mother in varying degrees indefinitely. Your kids need their mother, but they also need as much protection from their selfish entitled mother who will put her happiness paramount to their whenever it suits her.

Last thought. You matter also. You've been abused and yet you're insisting that it's important for the kids that you continue this abusive relationship with your wife even after she abusively divorces you for no good reason. That's not healthy FOR YOU. Your kids need you healthy MORE than they need you and mom pretend sucking up to one another. They need you healthy especially because they have an unhealthy entitled and selfish mother who can and will throw people away when it suits her. Now, I think in time a divorced betrayed spouse can reenter into a workable collaborative post divorce relationship with their wayward ex spouse but certainly not immediately. If she divorces you I think you should seriously consider a "parallel parenting" plan in order for you to detach yourself completely to the fullest extent possible and regain your health after this trial and turmoil where you've been disrespected and robbed of your wife and 50% of your time with your children. In fact, if nothing changes and you see the affair continues full speed ahead, I'd suggest implementing this ASAP during the divorce to drive the point home that this "friendship" won't continue if she actually divorces you.

Some states like Indiana have a statutory parallel parenting plan either spouse can request in the divorce process.

Quote:
Parallel Parenting

Definition. Parallel parenting is an arrangement in which divorced parents are able to co-parent by means of disengaging from each other, and having limited direct contact, in situations where they have demonstrated that they are unable to communicate with each other in a respectful manner. For intractable high conflict families, parallel parenting provides an opportunity for co-parenting, and although parents remain disengaged from each other they remain fully connected to their children. Within such an arrangement, parents may assume decision-making responsibility in different domains (such as one parent being responsible for medical decisions and the other for education). More often than not, however, they agree on major decisions regarding children’s upbringing but separately decide the logistics of routine, day-to-day parenting.

In many cases, with parallel parenting in place, the passage of time allows the dust to settle between parents, to the point where parents achieve cooperative parenting from a place of initial disengagement. When parents successfully parent within a parallel parenting arrangement, and maintain their end of the parenting agreement, trust is gradually restored and parents put aside their hostilities. At that point a more collaborative and cooperative parenting regime becomes established. Parallel parenting thus provides a foundation for cooperative parenting, as parents move from a place of disengagement toward more direct communication and negotiation.

Benefits. Parallel parenting protects children’s relationships with both parents while shielding them from parental conflict. Although parallel parenting is not a panacea for high conflict, research studies indicate that it does protect children from being placed in the middle of parental conflict, and facilitates co-parenting in high conflict situations. It is not the presence of parental conflict as much as children’s direct exposure to that conflict which is harmful to them. Most important, parallel parenting makes clear that both parents are equally important in a child’s life regardless of the hostility and acrimony between them.


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Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Originally Posted By: Defacto
GB,
Thanks again for the support. You have been a friend to me through this miss. Sending a virtual Fat Tire your way, brother.

Now is not the time to be congratulating myself, but I do feel that it went fairly well. I did and said all the things I wanted to do. I wanted to have fun together with the kids. And per W's text message, she enjoyed it too. It is hard to ignore that there was talk of D and of W looking at new houses but I just have to take all of that in stride.

You bring great points about child custody that I haven't considered. However, one reason I don't want child custody to get contentious is that the kids deserve the possible situation if this leads to D. And the best possible situation for them, I believe, requires W and I to have a workable relationship. If I fight for majority custody, which I feel like I might be justified to do, I don't believe it ends well for a co parenting relationship of W and I post divorce. Plus, I know W will resort to those bogus accusations against me that she was throwing around days after I exposed the A to OM's W. We'll see though. Everything is certainly fluid right now. It all depends on what is those pending D papers.

As far as my approach towards W is concerned, I really don't think I need to change anything. W is obviously not wanting to work on M. I just need to continue to move forward on self improvement and detachment. I need to be the best father I can to my wonderful kids. If W calls or I see W, I will be confident, calm, and cordial, yet I will be vulnerable when appropriate.

Am I missing anything?


Like I said, be prepared for her divorce papers to actually BE aggressive and make those assertions about you anyway. Especially if you've got some stuff on her she and her attorney MIGHT NOT want to chance going the nice route only to be shocked by you filings aggressively (see it would be hard for her to amend a nice divorce petition asking for 50/50 and then amend it saying "he's a danger to me and my kids" after that).

Another thought. What your wife is doing to you is abusive. Infidelity is abuse. By going along with it and being so nice to her now and after any divorce exactly what are you modeling to your children? Do you want your children to learn that they should just swallow and accept spousal (or boyfriend/girlfrind) abuse for the good of the family or relationship? That they should rock the boat and they should set aside their feelings and thoughts for everyone else because everyone else matters more than them? Besides, your wife technically isn't co-parenting at all. Like I said above, your wife is an unfit parent right now and if she divorces you she'll remain an pretty unfit mother in varying degrees indefinitely. Your kids need their mother, but they also need as much protection from their selfish entitled mother who will put her happiness paramount to their whenever it suits her.

Last thought. You matter also. You've been abused and yet you're insisting that it's important for the kids that you continue this abusive relationship with your wife even after she abusively divorces you for no good reason. That's not healthy FOR YOU. Your kids need you healthy MORE than they need you and mom pretend sucking up to one another. They need you healthy especially because they have an unhealthy entitled and selfish mother who can and will throw people away when it suits her. Now, I think in time a divorced betrayed spouse can reenter into a workable collaborative post divorce relationship with their wayward ex spouse but certainly not immediately. If she divorces you I think you should seriously consider a "parallel parenting" plan in order for you to detach yourself completely to the fullest extent possible and regain your health after this trial and turmoil where you've been disrespected and robbed of your wife and 50% of your time with your children. In fact, if nothing changes and you see the affair continues full speed ahead, I'd suggest implementing this ASAP during the divorce to drive the point home that this "friendship" won't continue if she actually divorces you.

Some states like Indiana have a statutory parallel parenting plan either spouse can request in the divorce process.

Quote:
Parallel Parenting

Definition. Parallel parenting is an arrangement in which divorced parents are able to co-parent by means of disengaging from each other, and having limited direct contact, in situations where they have demonstrated that they are unable to communicate with each other in a respectful manner. For intractable high conflict families, parallel parenting provides an opportunity for co-parenting, and although parents remain disengaged from each other they remain fully connected to their children. Within such an arrangement, parents may assume decision-making responsibility in different domains (such as one parent being responsible for medical decisions and the other for education). More often than not, however, they agree on major decisions regarding children’s upbringing but separately decide the logistics of routine, day-to-day parenting.

In many cases, with parallel parenting in place, the passage of time allows the dust to settle between parents, to the point where parents achieve cooperative parenting from a place of initial disengagement. When parents successfully parent within a parallel parenting arrangement, and maintain their end of the parenting agreement, trust is gradually restored and parents put aside their hostilities. At that point a more collaborative and cooperative parenting regime becomes established. Parallel parenting thus provides a foundation for cooperative parenting, as parents move from a place of disengagement toward more direct communication and negotiation.

Benefits. Parallel parenting protects children’s relationships with both parents while shielding them from parental conflict. Although parallel parenting is not a panacea for high conflict, research studies indicate that it does protect children from being placed in the middle of parental conflict, and facilitates co-parenting in high conflict situations. It is not the presence of parental conflict as much as children’s direct exposure to that conflict which is harmful to them. Most important, parallel parenting makes clear that both parents are equally important in a child’s life regardless of the hostility and acrimony between them.

Admittedly, I've spent so much energy agonizing about W's A and our crumbling MR that I just assumed that 50/50 custody was the way to go here. I do need to spend some time dwelling on this and will obviously review my options with my L once I get served.

The parallel parenting plan looks like a fantastic option. It appears to mirror my personality well. Thanks for this insight!

You're right, I DO matter. But, I know I will emerge from this a whole person either way. I need to really sit down and think about what is best for my children if things continue down this path. I feel I need to do so in a way where I only have their best interests at heart, irregardless of any anger, bitterness, or hurt I feel. But I admit, I'm certainly giving W a lot of undeserved credit right now in regards to her patenting fitness.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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Defacto - I am sorry you made it to this point. It is agonizing and difficult. It will be the most stressful thing you may ever do. My X was hell bent on proceeding, or rather finishing what was started. It is in this light that I caution you....

Quote:
I need to really sit down and think about what is best for my children if things continue down this path.


You are going down this path. Make no mistake about it. Be prepared. This person is not your W. She is someone else. Be prepared. Things that will be said and done will be difficult. Be prepared. It is time for you to cover your bases and get in front.


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
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Originally Posted By: mahhhty
Defacto - I am sorry you made it to this point. It is agonizing and difficult. It will be the most stressful thing you may ever do. My X was hell bent on proceeding, or rather finishing what was started. It is in this light that I caution you....

Quote:
I need to really sit down and think about what is best for my children if things continue down this path.


You are going down this path. Make no mistake about it. Be prepared. This person is not your W. She is someone else. Be prepared. Things that will be said and done will be difficult. Be prepared. It is time for you to cover your bases and get in front.

Mahhhty,
You are totally right. The time is now. Thanks for keeping me focused on reality.

What other bases do I need to cover? I have protected the assets and W moved out. All checking accounts are separated. I obviously need to put a game plan together for custody. I have a L waiting once I get served. Anything else I'm forgetting?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 290
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Well, I've been thinking lots but haven't put anything on paper yet. Had a total meltdown yesterday, so couldn't even bare to think to find a response to all the bad things my mind was telling me that he will say, and today I've been out and about all day. Will start, a.s.a.p!

All my best! smile


M: 44 H: 43
ILYBNILWY: 7/4-15 Decided to try to reconnect.
"This doesn't work, I have no feelings": 20/4-15
Scheduled "talk" :9/5-15
It's over: 9/5
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
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Journaling:
W called as she was driving kids to school. Other than a few texts, I haven't spoken with W since diner in Tuesday. We joked about how they were running late because D4 wanted Chik-Fil-A for breakfast. I told W that I was looking forward to seeing the kids tonight and that I missed them the last few days. We chatted a little bit more about non essentials. Then W told me that she is applying for a day position at the hospital. I validated and supported this and wished her good luck. W then told me that they (her and the kids) loved me. We then both wished each other good days.

I was upbeat, friendly, and engaged. Onward and upward...


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
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That sound a little bit positive. I wish my W would say that to me right now!

Good one! Keep fighting.


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That does sound positive, and you should find hope (but without expectations) in that. Just be careful, try to take out the high highs and the low lows. Grace under pressure!


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
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Huddy & Mahhhty,

Thanks for the encouragement, gang. I'm not reading anything into it though, especially the "love you" part. W said she "loved me" a few minutes after she asked when I wanted to get served D papers too! But I am thankful these phone calls are at least pleasant, for my own sanity's sake.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
D
Defacto Offline OP
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D
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Posts: 569
Probably time to start a new thread, huh?


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
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Me-70, D37,S36
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