When is kindness enough?

[Starsky309]

There is no logic in my wife's behaviour.

And there won't be. Not anytime soon. As Mozz wisely says, focus on yourself, and be on the lookout for any additional places where you may need to lay a healthy boundary. The bed was a great Step #1. Feels great, don't it?


Starsky

P.S. If she again tells you "You can sleep it the bed, it's no problem" just stop what you're doing, stare at her incredulously for a couple of seconds like you're perplexed, and say something like "Ummmmm, ok. Yes, of course." And then go bed.

[Fogg]

Ripe, good to hear the news about the bed. You deserve the good sleep. Keep up the good work and keep posting.

[Ripe]

Fogg, I especially thank you, because I just followed your example. We might not achieve much, but we have achieved a bed.
Starksky, I will eagerly wait for my wife to tell me again that I can sleep in my own bed and then do as you say.

Now some information.
After your advise I have read NMMNG.
At first I didn't identify myself with the book.
I still see my infancy as a perfectly regular one.
Nevertheless, after some thought I have realise I have been throughout my whole marriage (maybe not at the beginning) very manipulative.
I would give waiting to receive, getting frustrated for not getting anything (read sex) in return.
In order to avoid conflict I would not be truthful. I operated through covert contracts.
For these reasons and much more I avoided to have deep and emotional conversations with my wife, exactly the kind she needs. I was so afraid of telling her how I really felt and what I really thought of her, of us, of the M, for not getting the sex I needed.
Having seen my requests for intimacy rejected so many times I stopped asking for sex. It might sound strange, but it was me, the high drive spouse, who stopped wanting sex at all.
Now I know it was not her responsibility but it was up to me to clearly state my feelings and needs, in a plain and open way. No subterfuges, no indirect innuendo in front of friends about our sex life.

As to GAL, I don't have a regular schedule of activities.
I have focused myself on my kids and the results are amazing. They are so loving towards me, always kissing and hugging. Even the younger one, whom for some time I though I would never be able to strongly bond the way I did with the older one.
If I want to go to the cinema, now I go.
If a friend invites me out, now I accept, I don't refuse if my W sais she doesn't go. In fact, now I don't even ask her if she wants to come.
Her not wanting to come, do or participate does not prevent me anymore from going, doing or participating.

I don't call her and I avoid starting any conversation.
Now I say NO to her.
Even yesterday she asked me to book a plane ticket because she will fly home alone (I have always been the one buying them) and I told her she should be the one doing it. She asked me again and I told her it was her trip, not mine. She then said OK. After some moments I gave her the phone number she should call.
As you see, it's still a work in progress.
This has always been my major doubt and why I asked at the beginning "When is kindness enough?"
I am slowly starting to realize I have to be myself and only do things I feel comfortable with.
It's not always easy to distinguish when you're being yourself and when you're simply being rude.

[Ripe]

I already have my next GAL activity planned.
I have just registered for a one month online meditation course, starting 1st May.
My instantaneous thought was: shall I tell my W?
Of course I wanted to.
That is everything I want: to spend time with her, to make her happy, to please her. Most probably she would like the course.
My feelings don’t matter, I then thought.
And I realised I was going down through cheeseless tunnels.
My motives for asking her to participate with me are not pure, honest or altruistic.
I would be waiting for a “thank you”, for her to realise how good a husband I am, for her to start touching me again.
I would not be doing that disinterestedly, just because it would give me pleasure to share some moments with her.
I would be expecting something in return. I would be giving to get.
And for that I have decided not to tell her.

Am I over-analysing this too much?
Am I going crazy?

[Starsky309]

No, I think you've got it right, and have answered your own question. Don't tell her -- for all the reasons you state.

Good insight!!


Starsky

[Fogg]

Fogg, I especially thank you, because I just followed your example. We might not achieve much, but we have achieved a bed.

I thank you just as well, and everyone else that gave you and me the advice It was reading your thread that gave me the motivation at the time to challenge her, and it worked out to a point I'm satisfied. I had the advice before from other individuals on these forums, It just never went into action.

Its hard understanding the NMMNG stuff, looking back at your actions and questioning all of them to see where they truly come from. Then trying to watch your future actions to make sure those covert contracts don't sneak out again. Keep working on it, I'm doing the same. Given time I'm sure we can change our behaviors for the better.

[Sherman333]

My wife showed up at the bedroom door and said: "You can sleep in the bed. There is no problem."
I was not going to sleep anywhere else, so I did not understand why she said that. Did she think I was going to sleep in the floor once more?
Anyway, why does she say it's OK for me to sleep in the bed if we don't touch each other?

There is a bit of logic... she's flipping it around so she's giving you permission to sleep in your bed. So it's "as if" she's still in control of the situation. This will come up with some of your other 180s too. So be prepared with the suggested reactions.

My wife has tried doing some of the same types of "giving me permission".

[Ripe]

My wife showed up at the bedroom door and said: "You can sleep in the bed. There is no problem."
I was not going to sleep anywhere else, so I did not understand why she said that. Did she think I was going to sleep in the floor once more?
Anyway, why does she say it's OK for me to sleep in the bed if we don't touch each other?

There is a bit of logic... she's flipping it around so she's giving you permission to sleep in your bed. So it's "as if" she's still in control of the situation. This will come up with some of your other 180s too. So be prepared with the suggested reactions.

My wife has tried doing some of the same types of "giving me permission".

Very interesting point of view!!!
I would have never considered this. I am such a nice guy!

[Ripe]

I don't have Facebook, I never wanted to.
Last October, when my M was going down the roller-coaster, my W and I would share the computer.
One time, she left her Facebook page open and I read a conversation with a friend where she was explaining the friend the ILYBINILWY.
I got obsessed for several weeks and started spying all she did online.
I even bought a professional keylogger program.
This program never worked properly because I had previously installed an anti-keylogger and had forgotten about it.
Fortunately am I am too geek even for my taste.
Well, I am not proud of what I did and after finding this forum and reading Sandi2 rules (rule n.º 10) I completely erased the program.
Today, I was with a friend who is friends with my W. The friend asked me if I wanted to read a funny message my W had posted.
I said I was not interested.
And really I was not.
Facebook is my wife's thing, not mine. The person I am today doesn't feel any motivation or need to read what she posts.
She is one, I am another.
We are not a couple.
She is living her life, I am living mine.
It just happens we are living under the same roof (and sharing the same bed).
My detachment might take me too far, I fear.
I might cross the point of no return.

PS - I have just decided to give to charity the same amount of money the program cost me. This way my espionage action might help someone for a change.

[Ripe]

Sleeping in the same bed with my wife by my side is becoming increasingly more and more difficult.
Every time she accidentally touches me she immediately retracts, as if I would have a contagious disease.
I, on the other side, just by being there sometimes feel turned on, others just feel like hugging and kissing her, others like spooning.
Because of that I am also trying, conscious and unconsciously, to avoid touching her.
This makes for a not calm and peaceful sleep.
I always wake up tired.

On a positive side, my W praised me for the way I have been dealing with the kids.
Although more loving to them, I also became more firm and strict.
I used to be just a good friend to them and I am becoming more of a parent.
My wife likes that and she told me so.
It is the second compliment she makes in three or more years.