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Not sure where to start. Found out 3 weeks ago H is having an affair. (not his 1st). Says they are red hot and growing closer. Doesn't want to work on marriage if it means giving up what he has with her. We have 3 kids--19 yo girl in away at college and 16yo twin boys. Lots of stress and issues. He wants to stay together as friends until twins graduate from HS. Not sure he wants a D but not committed to fixing us, but hey it would be cool if we could all play together in the bedroom..

Need help setting up some boundaries. He tells me all about the 2 of them, compares me to her and of course i come up short every time. Tells me how she does everything better than me. Forwards me her texts and we cannot have a private conversation about our kids or anything without it being shared. Also he texts her constantly in front of me to the point where we cannot even have a conversation.

Of course I have made all the mistakes am trying to distance myself and GAL but difficult because he is still here, has so much contact with her and spends a couple nights with her each week.

specifically would like him to stop sharing our private conversations with OW
stop texting her when we are trying to do something, stop comparing and criticizing everything I do. And how do I handle it when he goes to be with her. I have said I will not tell our kids what he is doing but will not lie and it is up to him to let them know he won't be at home these nights/mornings (she told him I was being a manipulative bitch and putting kids in the middle)
Aslo I feel like if he choose to be with her and miss family time he does not have the right to ask me questions about what we did, etc. Is this appropriate and how do I say this?


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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Originally Posted By: AHW99


specifically would like him to stop sharing our private conversations with OW
stop texting her when we are trying to do something, stop comparing and criticizing everything I do. And how do I handle it when he goes to be with her. I have said I will not tell our kids what he is doing but will not lie and it is up to him to let them know he won't be at home these nights/mornings (she told him I was being a manipulative bitch and putting kids in the middle)
Aslo I feel like if he choose to be with her and miss family time he does not have the right to ask me questions about what we did, etc. Is this appropriate and how do I say this?



AHW,

I am glad you are here, the fact that you are even asking if this is appropriate says that you need to be in a place like this with supportive people.

I usually don't weigh in on posts like yours, because there a several posters around here who are really good about dealing with this type of situation, and my advice can't match theirs. But there's something about your post that really raises my hackles.

First of all - your husband isn't just having an affair - he is trying to bring a 3rd party into your marriage. I'm assuming you are not ok with this - because you are here. There are no half measures here that are going to help you.

What happened with his first affair? How did it end?


Is he spending family money on his affair? Do you both work? Who controls the finances in your household?


Right now, are there any consequences for his behavior? I'm going to answer for you, that it doesn't sound like there are.

If you won't live in an open marriage then tell him that. If he forwards your texts to his mistress, stop texting him. If he tries to forward you her texts, block him. If he texts her in front of you, leave the room.

It sounds to me like he is using your kids to blackmail you - "Don't speak up or protect yourself or it will hurt the kids". You know this is malarkey, right? He's the one that has already hurt them - don't be his accomplice.

I hope some wiser vets will come along soon and help out.

Last edited by raliced; 04/17/15 07:13 PM.

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Thanks for your reply. A litle more background. We have been married almost 22 years. My H has had an issue with internet porn, that started probably 17-18 years ago. I was not as sexually adventurous as him and he has an extremely high sex drive. I know i could have responded better, but his addiction made it really tough. It progressed from watching web cams to hooking up, sexting, and then an affair about 8 years ago. I discovered it after about 6 months and he pretty much said we could stay married but he wasn't giving up the OW. We went to a couple of counseling sessions but he would not end it. I compensated by jumping through hoops sexually, but he lied and kept up the affair. At some point (maybe 9 months in ) her H found out and things fizzled.

Around that time I got depressed and gave up because it seemed all the effort was on my part. He did lots of camming, etc and we were also dealing with teenagers, twins with ADHD getting in lots of trouble at school.. He says I only tried long enough to get rid of the M. His tastes got more and more out there and he wasnt in to working on anything

He stopped approaching me for sex. It had been 2 years. We talked about it some. I begged him to really try to work on everything. Stupid of me but I hoped something might trigger a spark or change so we could address all the issues. We are so close to leaving behind all the stresses and being like newlyweds again in 2 years when boys go to college.

In November one of my sons got in trouble at school and got kicked off the football team. Apparently my H response was to place an ad on Ashley Madison and he is living out a fifty shades of gray fantasy so its very intense. 3 weeks ago the same son got picked up for shoplifting and my H said he didnt care anymore when I asked him who he kept texting.

So its all new all fresh. Believe it or not I feel like we could fix things if he got on board but maybe I am in denial

so No not really spending a significant amount of money on affair. We have a cabin they use

we both work

no real consequences yet not sure how to address with problems with kids

its a mess


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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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Sorry you're here, AH. However, you will not find a more incredibly supportive group than DBers here.

Cadet, calling you. Would you please link Train's thread(s) here...or her last one? I think AH could use some guidance from Train's threads...especially when laying down the no talking about the OW boundary or texting OW in/around the house.

Trains Threads

AH, try to read up on Train's threads as much as you can for I do see parallels between your sitch and Train in how she navigated through her H's two affairs. They are now happily reconciled and have been piecing for the past year now. Train comes around occasionally.

Chin up...we're all here for you. smile


Last edited by Cadet; 04/17/15 08:14 PM. Reason: Link
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This is so hard. I have stopped texting so they would not be forwarded and generally asks if he is alone before i will talk to him on the phone. Have not talked about the OW since Tues although he was out of town much of the week.
I got a little bit irritated tonight because he was late coming home for dinner then late picking up our son and went to the wrong place. Says he is distracted by issues with his parents who have dementia.

Seems to me like he is distracted because he is constantly texting even takes phone to bathroom. I finally said can you put the phone down for 5 minutes so we can talk

he did but not before finishing his text. I told him that he led me to believe he wanted us to work on a friendship and attempt to stay together for 2 years until boys went to college. I said I am evaluating that but if you want to do that you have to make more of an effort to continue our normal family life, dinner as a family, keeping committments and some time being my friend or you might as well leave. He said he was trying to do that and hadn't mentioned OW all week (which really means since Tues)

i also said if you want to be my friend then you need to put the phone away when you are spending time with me and stop the constant texting because it is rude and disrespectful and hurtful. I can't stop you but i will walk away.

he said he would try then picked up his phone. So i left. Oh and he made sure to let me know that OW is still in the picture and he would be wanting to spend time witih her on Sunday

i'm sure my kids suspect something is wrong but they do not know. We were trying to keep things semi-stable while we got them in some counseling for drinking and behavior issues and to let my daughter get through exams at college

is this a mistake should i ask him to move up to the cabin? Also he won a trip to Napa next week. We still plan to go even though I volunteered to back out even suggested he take the OW . He said he wanted me to go and I know he doesnt want to show up at a work function with a mistress. I thought it would be good time away from her and i know she is bothered by us getting close and has asked him about sex etc. Now I just don't know........


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Tough night. So after all of the above said I was being a bully and being whiny and needy and he didnt have time to babysit me. He said I told him he was a bad dad. i said no I am just trying to stand up for myself because so far you are getting everything you want and not considering how your actions effect me and this familly.

He also keeps saying I didn't care about fixing our marriage until I found out he had someone else. Last week he said he would be willing to do some counseling to help us be able to communicate better and be productive especially where our kids are concerned. Now he says no I just need to go on my own....the OW did and it has helped her.

And of course he says he just can't talk to me it's not how OW talks to him "and yes she's perfect you could learn a lot from her!'"

For someone who has really had no consequences except his own guilt I don't understand why he is so angry all the time


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I think the best thing for you to do is to walk away from some of these conversations.
It is unlikely that they will lead anywhere good.

As long as he is involved with someone else you can not be providing for any of his needs.

The affair will die when it is not so hot and the light of day is shined on it.

Did you see the links in Wonka's post?
Read about Train.


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AHW,

Please do read Train's threads.

What is it that you want to have happen here? I read your posts and it sounds like you are focued on trying to navigate these unmanageable waters.

What do you want to have happen here. What do you want for yourself and your children?


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Man alive AHW, you are dealing with a serious cake eater here. Manipulative, blackmailing, guilt tripping the whole works.

It's a given that you try to follow sandi's rules, but I suggest reading sandi's thread Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife. OK it's written primarily for an LBH but there valuable lessons here. Both links are in Cadet's first reply above.

Sandi espouses tough love in this situation. I believe you have to shock him into believing you mean it. You need plenty of realistic boundaries and the will power to enforce them. It looks like you are already doing some if these. Good for you.

I'm glad you found the forum, it helps a great deal to know there are good people willing and able to help you. And know, it's hard. Really hard. It's been over 10 months for me since bomb day, I finally told my WW to get out when I'm back to see my kids and it helps that she's not here but I still cried in the bath tun this morning.

Keep posting, but don't write essays if you can help it. Manageable chunks if you can. Also seriously consider call the DB professionals. everyone has nothing but good words for them.

And if you able to fill in your sig yet, can you do that. It just helps jog people's memory of your situation.

((( AHW99 ))) this means hugs


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
And if you able to fill in your sig yet, can you do that. It just helps jog people's memory of your situation.

He can't do it just yet, but soon.

Please do it when you are able!


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Thought so.

BTW Cadet, can you add gaslighting to the abbreviations ... even though it actually isn't one. I keep forgetting what it means ... like now.


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AHW

Ralliced called me on my thread as my H has multiple addictions, gambling, smoking, drinking and golf. He also chases OWs but there is no porn.

Porn addictions can be managed, a DBer here called Sherman has turned his addiction around so it can be achieved. From your description your H has an active addiction. In order to manage this, your H has to want to do so, this is not something that you can influence. This has to be the choice of your H.

It is a very addictive behavioural problem and very difficult to be affected by as there may be codependency. Not only will this addiction affect you but it can affect your family and there are specific 12 step groups to help you with this particular addiction. Addictions as well as the extra behaviours involved destroy Rs as they occupy the time and attention of the addict. This creates distraction and obsession. I applied the 20 key questions of addictions to the statements you made about your H and had 14 positive answers out of 20.

This addiction of your H has gone beyond porn to sex addiction, the Internet becomes a tool to make sexual connections. H is attempting to open your marriage to this and if this is not what you want then your voice must be "no" and "definitely not". The nexus of men and women in this addiction are very high risk.

In many ways I am relieved that H has not attempted to make love with you as this puts your health at very serious risk. You may wish to be tested, and although this is unpleasant some diseases can be dormant for several years. Be careful on this, one of my fellow 12 steppers found she had both clamydia and syphilis from her H cross addictions and yes I did go with her and stay when she got the results. She had not had sex with her H for over a year and yes her H thought he might be infected.

You can tell H you are doing this too.

This sex addiction is an extra dimension on top of As, more than Train and more than Vs H. The nearest poster with this in his life is Joe, his W is also an Internet sex worker and Joe has masterfully enforced his boundaries.

Truly this is going to require strength on your part and a will to put very strong boundaries in place. H is attempting to manoeuvre you to an open M and clearly from your words this is not your desire.

In a sex addiction then the OW will be just an object which H will eventually tire before adding another OW or two. In order to continue his behaviour H will 'depersonalise' his OWs, and an addict will try to do this with his primary R too. It is like comparing cars when you are buying, this one has leather upholstery, that one better body work, and another be fitted with a soft top!

You need not engage, you can also see OW as the 'type' who is colloquially referred to as easy, in fact OW may also be an addict. Your children need not be connected to this. You could ask H to leave entirely as a two day a week sex involvement is likely to burn out if made full time. Stay in your home and in your master bedroom. If you prefer not to go with H to his work event don't go, use the time to clear his stuff out. Clearly H is so deep in his addiction his head is absent anyway.

There are three strategies to be considered 1. Appease 2. Tough Love 3. Work on you to make you stronger.

I have tried all three separately and use the last two in equal measure.

If H gets angry and difficult protect yourself. This is edging on sexual abuse where you are being asked to do things which you find distasteful, but as yet this appears to be verbal persuasion.

My post here is strong on this as I would like you to be aware that there are extra issues to be considered. H is being up front on this with you so not hidden. Addicts can hide their addictions when they are ashamed, your H seems to have no inhibitions.

Would H think you would be amenable to an open R?

Keep posting, the amazing folks here will help you and provide support and the vets like Cadet, Starsky, Sandi, Wonka and MrBond.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/18/15 06:20 PM.

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Thank you @raliced for your reply and to everyone. It helps so much to have someone to talk to. At this point I have shared it with no one.

I am reading DR and I guess if I could have whatever I wanted it would be for my H to end this A and commit to working on the M. We never really have been on board together. He blames me for his porn/sex addiction. I could not match his sex drive and was a not as adventurous as he wanted me to be, but I was willing to have sex until he left me alone every night to the computer and he got pretty mean in the bedroom. Anyway for sure no open marriage and I realize this is probably a long shot.

Second best would be if we could at least get back our friendship. We were friends before being married and will now always have the bond of these kids. They need both parents as they are going through a lot right now. It's so difficult to understand why he is so angry and mean about everything.

And above all I just want to feel okay about me. I am 54, attractive with a good figure. I am not the horrible person he makes me out to be. I am extremely lonely and I know I will be okay but definitely scared of being on my own after 22 years of marriage. Don't even know where to start


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Thanks Vanilla. I am studying your post. Bad news I did have sex with him--stupid I know. Not sure what he is thinking guess I'm just lonely and it's not like I really didnt't want sex. The only good thing is I know it really got to the OW.

Funny, to call it cheating since they got together on a cheater's website. She is married but lives in a different state from her H. They have an open marriage. My H has already cheated on the OW with a college student. Also sexts with a 22 yo med student. He feels bad about "cheating" on her

No i don't want an open marriage. About 10 days ago I did all the stupid stuff showed him the early years pics and asked him if after 22 years of marriage he wouldnt be willing to give it 6 months and really try then if it didnt work we'd know we did anything Said I'd be willing to let him occasionally do the Dom/Sub thing with her if he needed that outlet as long as I was there. He got really excited thinking he would get two women and we would get together. He pitched it to her and she said no way.

He makes attempts to rekindle sex with me but feels guilty about her and says he's not going to let me screw up his abilitly to get an erection again etc. but truth is he couldnt get an erection unless doing something more and more out there to feed his addiction

Rationally I know that things probably wont work out with her she has no idea how really screwed up he is, but it hurts that he compromises with her and sets boundaries and is romantic and loving to her and trying not to cheat. All the things he refused to do for me. She is an assistant college professor with a degree in counseling and adolescent therapist so she is really good at talking to him and of course there is no history or stress or drama so I always come out looking inferior even when i say exactly the same thing

i am trying to make stronger boundaries. My goal is to wait until my daughter gets through with exams in mid may and then push him to move out. I know this will accelerate issues with OW as kids will know as well as others


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AHW

Please get tested, your kids need you around. Sex with H should be safe, this OW could be a time bomb. Safe sex ok!

We want you safe.

This is about you, not about getting one over on a nasty OW. And H is not being romantic and loving with a pick up, he is getting his rocks off. This type of R is an addict R not an involved one. The hook is excitement which has a short life span.

My H is a compulsive gambler and I am not to blame for it. Nothing I have done, this is his responsibility. Same as you, if you want an open R that's fine but be safe. There is nothing out of bounds for consenting adults, but I do mean consenting. You all agree and there is no harm.

You are only inferior with your consent. You write as if you want to hang on to this H and be part of his fantasies yet you are here considering DB. Mid May is a month away and then what? Another hurdle?

OW is irrelevant my darling one. You are no competition for this OW and you do not have to be. That addiction of your H will get worse for him to contain.

In order to continue with his addiction any addict will rationalise, blame, manipulate and create smoke and mirrors. It may also be that you are addicted to your H, this is called codependency and it can be very difficult for a codependent to cure their own addiction. Codependents keep adapting to addicts because they are 'lost' or 'lonely' without the addict. They need to care for the addict.

You may be codependent with your H, it is worth considering with your IC. I mentor gamblers partners and loved ones sometimes and with long standing addictions this is distinctly possible. Evaluate this. Being with H will enhanced your sense of loneliness unless H is in recovery with you. DB is a good solution for personal growth for you and sits very well indeed with 12 steps and supports it. With an addict then honesty is key. The acronym HOW describes recovery

H for Honesty
O for Openess
W for Willingness

Honest about the addiction, open about needing help and willing to change.

Your H is not refusing to be romantic with you, it's just that he may see you as an extension of himself and that you are not separate from him. He is unlikely to be romantic with you and resolve the problem. A resource that he can use as he wishes. There is also a saying that applies here, you did not cause this, you can not control it and lastly you can not cure it. Sadly this OW will be replaced by another. Be wary this OW sounds too good to be true, she could be a fantasist.

There are a couple of books that I recommend, codependent no more and a second book called codependency for dummies.

Of course stronger boundaries will help you a great deal.

Keep posting

V


Last edited by Vanilla; 04/18/15 11:11 PM.

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Hello AHW!! I'm sorry you are here but this is the best place for you to be right now. smile

I can relate to ALOT of things in your situation. If you get a chance, read threw my posts. You will see when i first came here, I was scared like alot of people. But like you I also kept my wife's issue a secret. The people here finally got it out of me. What a relief it was that someone besides me knew what I was dealing with now. I had no one to talk to before I came here. I actually got booted from another forum for talking about what my wife was doing. But now I am glad I did. These people here have helped me in so many ways. I am a better person today because of the tools they gave me and the help they gave me.

I can see that you are starting to enforce a few boundaries already. That is good. Boundaries are something I have to work on still, but I am getting better. I am in no way a vet, but I also am dealing with some similar things.

I see you are reading DR. Great! It helped me a ton! There is a section in there that deals with internet things also.

The links Cadet posted helped me a great deal. I still reread them when I have tough days. I agree with what Old Dog said also about the thread Newcomer LBH with a wayward wife. You could pick up ALOT from it also. The best advice I got here was DETACH. It took me awhile to really understand what that meant. But once I started figuring it out, smile smile

We are all here for you! smile I will check back in while, gotta feed the kids smile


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Agree 100% with V! Codependency No More helped me really see how to DETACH!! First thing to take care of is YOU and your kids. Another one that helped me is Love Must Be Tough and when you finish DR it would REALLY help in your situation.

I tend to talk about what has worked for me when I post to others. It is a habit from AA. When we share in meetings, we always talk about what worked for us and hope the person listening picks up on it. I am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober 20 years now. I am familiar with addictions.


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AHW- You say you have shared this with no one in real life. Why is that? Are you embarassed or scoared, or do you feel there is no one.

Most people on this board seek the help of a individual counselor. It helps to various degrees depending on the person and the sitch. Please give this a try. If you dn't find one who is a good fit at first, keep trying. The DB coaches are awesome, but an therapist would be helpful as well. If you are a churchgoing person, your pastor may be of some assistance as well. The people on this board will continue to help you and be here to cheer you on, but with some of the issues you are facing, I think you could really benefit fromse some professional support IRL.

Your husband has some pretty big problems. I'm not an expert, but a man who can only have an erection through escalating sexcapades needs help. And he is probably no where near where he will seek it. You need to turn your focus squarely on you and getting strong.

You mention that your kids are having some problems - what kind of dad is he being?

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AHW,

You've gotten outstanding advice here. I am so sorry you are going through all this. Vanilla, Raliced, and Joe especially have given you solid advice that you should really ponder.

When I was in the place you're in, I got advice from a dear friend in real life that I think has saved my life. She told me to stop thinking about the H first and to focus on rediscovering my own value.

AHW, please: go find your own value.

You've been jumping through your H's hoops far too long. Staying together for your kids is surely causing so much of their current issues. Do you think that if he's being that open with you about his stinky OW that they, practically adults, can't tell how offensively he's behaving?

My kids are much younger than yours, but their behavior has improved enormously with my improved sense of myself. If you need something to give you purpose, take a long look at the pain your kids are showing you and think about how poisonous their environment is. Then set about saving yourself. They will be saved with you.

You've said a number of times that he isn't interested in tending to the marriage. He is showing you who he is. What you are doing is not working. Believe him when he tells you who he is. Don't keep making choices based on who you want him to be. Make your choices on who YOU want to be. That's all you can control.

You may not want to hear my perspective because you are here to save your marriage and my marriage is gone. I totally understand if that's the case for you. I felt that way myself. I never believed how much happier I'd be without STBX. I never believed my kids could be better off. I never wanted to believe he was who he was showing me he was. your H will not change till he's motivated to. He will not be motivated to change while you continue to submit to his abuse. Please think about that.

FIND YOUR VALUE.

Best to you, and a long squeezy hug and some prayers for you and your kids. You DO NOT DESERVE to be treated so horrifically.


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AHW,

I'm sorry about what you're going through. You are getting incredible advice on here, and I would advise you to listen closely to Vanilla. She's right on the money.

My sitch is a cakewalk comparably, but one thing that drew my eye was how worried you were about being alone after 22 years together. I have been married for 23 years and feel the same fear. After being on here and DBing though, the fear is manageable and I'm actually beginning to believe I'll have a better life. You sound like a terrific mom and I think you'll find a way to help your sons even without your dad. A friend told me recently that as long as they have one together, compassionate parent they will get through anything. I believe this in your sons' cases too.

{{{AHW}}}


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Thanks Vanilla. Will get the books and work through them. You have so much good advice!


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Thanks Joe. Will read CoDependency No More. Have read Love Must Be Tough. This group has already been such a blessing. Will study your posts


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Raliced. I have not shared this with anyone so far for a couple of reasons:

1) Don't really think I have any true friends here that I want to unburden with
2) Crazy I know but out of respect for my H. Don't want him to feel betrayed and once I share he can't really go back to being that great guy that everyone loves. I know that's probably a consequence he needs, but want to do it the right way

I do know I need to talk to a counselor. Have just been focused on kids because at 16 we have had some issues with alcohol, marijuana and the shoplifting issue.We start counseling with my son next week.

My H has been absent for a lot of their childhood because of his addiction. He tries to be a good dad but is very impatient. Truthfully the twins are hard to parent. They are goodlooking, smart, athletic and have lots of good traits but ADHD issues have been a challenge with school behavior. That's my focus now and you guys here have helped me to get my focus back on me and them.

Today has been a better day!


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Raliced...did want to say that since the A and since I found out my H has really tried to do more with the boys and to get involved with coaches and parenting. He wants to make up for mistakes with them. So I guess that is a positive.


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Thanks Maybell. Needed to hear what you have to say. Today has been a better day and I do know I need to take care of myself and my kids. We will be okay no matter what.

I am making a reminder that says "Find Your Value" and will look at it when the going gets tough.


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Eirinn thanks for your message. I read some of your posts and I know it must me hard for you and pretty scary with younger kids. You seem like you have made progress with getting out there and finding yourself again. That is what I know I need to do. Any suggestions on activities that have been helpful?

I do go to the gym. I need to find some things to do that will help me make some better friendships. I feel like mine are so superficial.

I know I am new her and don't feel that qualified to help but call on me anytime you need some moral support


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OMG can I just say how pissed I am now and how incredulous? Today Sunday is H's special day with the OW....dinner, Fifty Shades of Grey session and sleepover. He just called me to say goodnight and check on the family--had all kinds of questions about our night and what we did. Like he was just away on business or something and calling like he used to. The man can't even have a conversation like that during the day when I actually need him to be a parent and he seemed shocked that I wasn't playing along and talking.

What is he thinking. Why would he think I would want to talk to him while he is in his OW's arms?


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I am no Vet, but if I was in your shoes, I would not have answered the phone. I would have let him wonder what you are up to. I think he knows you will pick up the phone and listen to him. Let him wonder. It could also be a boundary issue.

" I will not discuss things with you while you are with OW"

I'm sure one of the vets here can give you more advice and will correct me if I am wrong.


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Originally Posted By: AHW99
Raliced. I have not shared this with anyone so far for a couple of reasons:

1) Don't really think I have any true friends here that I want to unburden with
2) Crazy I know but out of respect for my H. Don't want him to feel betrayed and once I share he can't really go back to being that great guy that everyone loves. I know that's probably a consequence he needs, but want to do it the right way

I do know I need to talk to a counselor. Have just been focused on kids because at 16 we have had some issues with alcohol, marijuana and the shoplifting issue.We start counseling with my son next week.

My H has been absent for a lot of their childhood because of his addiction. He tries to be a good dad but is very impatient. Truthfully the twins are hard to parent. They are goodlooking, smart, athletic and have lots of good traits but ADHD issues have been a challenge with school behavior. That's my focus now and you guys here have helped me to get my focus back on me and them.

Today has been a better day!



AHW- This is a case of putting on your own oxygen mask before helping others. I'm glad your kids are getting help - but they would also probably benefit tremendously from you being in a stronger place. Please don't put it off - find a counselor for yourself sooner than later.


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AHW,

Here's some crucial piece of advice you need to consider and implement right away.

1) Absolutely no talks about the OW. Look past her.
2) Tell H that he cannot text OW when around the house, around you, the kids.
3) Don't talk to H about the OW. You are not his friend. You are his WIFE.

Tell him straight up that it is disrespectful to talk to you about the OW. It ends right now. You're not having any of that nonsense polluting you.

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Your H "tries" to be a good dad?

I just love the word try, it excuses failure in advance.

AHW with all respect, you are the stable parent for your two sons. I love the oxygen mask analogy. Ground yourself.

Joe and Wonka are saying the same thing, this OW and any others waiting in the wings are irrelevant to you when your H is this addicted.

By covering for him, you are enabling his behaviour (when you read codependent no more then this will be clear to you).

My dearest one, you are clearly ready to mend your life and heal for your children. You have chosen to listen and act.

V


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Thanks vanilla. I know you are right. Am looking for a good counselor to help me. Don't even really know where to start. Tonight I found out that my H is planning to take the OW on a 4 day vacation to a remote island in the Bahamas. This hurts on so many levels

he is taking a big step in their relationship
it is a very special family place that he is sharing with her plus the 2 of us never went there alone
expensive trip
the weekend my daughter moves out of college housing into first real apt.

I told him I'm not trying to stop him from going but if he plans to do that he really needs to move out. He said if I go don't tell the kids about the affair let him talk to them. He said he will not move out. He wants me to give him two years to set the kids on the right path and essentially have me be the mom and provide the cover of respectability and he's not sure what he wants but he thinks its her but I owe him that. Then he basically threatened me by saying if he moves out he will never come back because they are so close and perfect,etc So I said that is completely selfish and if he knows now that that is what will happen he should move out now and try it out.

So I know that I should let him go. I'm just scared that he is right and I hate to be the one to push him out. Every time we talk we go in circles because I say something really straight forward and reasonable and he twists it into the past or something negative or irrelevant such as saying that I am using our kids.. I know I am right that he is actually doing that by saying I should stay in the farce of a marriage that he suggests for their benefit. I just need some help with the words to say what I want clearly and not let him confuse me


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Originally Posted By: AHW99


So I know that I should let him go. I'm just scared that he is right and I hate to be the one to push him out. Every time we talk we go in circles because I say something really straight forward and reasonable and he twists it into the past or something negative or irrelevant such as saying that I am using our kids.. I know I am right that he is actually doing that by saying I should stay in the farce of a marriage that he suggests for their benefit. I just need some help with the words to say what I want clearly and not let him confuse me


AHW- First of all - he's not right.

Second- you could be a silver tongued orator and say everything perfectly and its not going to make a difference. Not in the condition he is in. It's a time for action and not words. He is now spending family money on this. In addition to seeing a counselor, I would urge you to speak to a lawyer, sooner than later. Your husband is not behaving in any kind of honorable way - please protect yourself.


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Ahw I thought I would stop by and see how you are doing. Wonka, V and raliced are giving you great advice. I know you are confused on what to do. My W wants to try to keep the image of our family intact so the other people in town don't know. She lies to our kids. I decided to not be a part of her lies. I don't cover for her anymore. I have no proof of my W affair, but since I learned to take care of myself and detach I have started to see things a lot clearer. Raliced gave good advice. Legal advice would be a good idea. And counseling.

If my W told me she was going on a trip with another man to my face, I would help her pack. We would pack ALL her things. And then I would change the locks.


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Joe thank you for making me laugh a little. Maybe I should help him pack. I actually thought about that. Funny my H was married before me. He fell in love quickly because the sex was great (do you see a pattern here?) and got married. Apparently, she cheated on him after only a few months and he got mad and threw her out and all of her things in the yard. I have had visions of doing exactly that and letting him come back to find it all outside and the locks changed.

He told me he told OW that I found out about the trip and she suggested they postpone it. He thinks this is a loving, selfless gesture on her part and it's really just about postponing having to tell our kids daddy has a lover.

So hopefully some of you can help me. I can't force him to leave but I guess he will if I push it--I'm getting there but so afraid of the result.

I think it is time for me to stop covering up all of this. I really don't want to be vindictive or have him feel I am betraying him. DR seems to say you don't go out and tell people, but how does that work? He really has no consequences for his behavior otherwise.

And what about our kids. As Vanilla has said I'm sure they know on some level things have not been right for a long time and surely they have heard the arguing and see how unhappy I am but not sure how to talk to them. I feel like it would be best if we talk to them together, but am concerned that he will not admit the OW--also that he will blame them for OUR issues

Don't know if anyone who has been through this with kids of similar ages has any suggests but they are my #1 priority now


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My first H (who died) and I fostered troubled teens. Your twins are acting out and it is difficult to pinpoint the exact reason from posts. One of the reasons kids act out is to bring attention back to the family from an 'absent' parent. Your H is an absent parent in almost every way.

I haven't fostered twin boys (only a mixed sex twin pair much younger than your twins) but there are interactive dynamic spirals. Both positive and negative spirals. In fact in one case an older than her years girl aged 12 told me, "I wish mum would leave and take me with her. We can be happy and I can see my dad when he will have to pay me attention". This particular Father was a football fan and gambler and shouted through frustration. mum had a breakdown hence the foster care.

Your oldest child D is independent already and can be one of your supports if you separate and I would guess understands some of the ongoing dynamic. There is likely no need to explain more than that, your personal life is yours.

As to the younger boys at 16 they are almost adults themselves. They are still probably too young for independence.

All of your children are old enough to manage their own R with their father if you S or D. In my book there is no need to tell them about the addictions including OW. Your M is gone, not really because of a specific OW but as a result of his addiction. H has yet to get to step 1 of a twelve step programme, acceptance he has a problem.

I think it is enough for you to say individually to your children "mum is very unhappy and she has asked dad to leave. This is very hard for me but I have made up my mind on this. When you are ready please talk to me or your IC"

If you tell your kids together then H will run rings around you, may lie, or you may challenge him in a way which involves your children and creates arguments. This is one situation where mum acts bravely and alone. Your kids are not there for you to try a wake up intervention on your H. Such that he has a sudden realisation of what he is losing by seeing you all together.

Please seek an IC and on the ground help. It would be good if the IC was in the same practice as your sons IC too, so the family dynamic is understood by the IC.

Peace today

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/21/15 08:48 AM.

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"I think it is time for me to stop covering up all of this. I really don't want to be vindictive or have him feel I am betraying him."

Contradictory.

If you want to tell your children, then tell them. But don't do it as a way of controlling him to come back.

"DR seems to say you don't go out and tell people, but how does that work?"

No it actually says that you don't go out and tell everyone. Doing that really doesn't do anyone any good. It builds resentment in the WAS and makes people choose sides.

"He really has no consequences for his behavior otherwise."

You can't FORCE consequences onto him. If your intention is to punish him for his actions, then you'll get a bad result.


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I think you should see a lawyer.

I don't think you should have to live with someone who is openly cheating on you.

It's offensive to me that he is openly with someone else and refuses to move out. I am offended on your behalf.

Now you need to dig deep and FIND YOUR VALUE. If you haven't seen a lawyer yet you don't know what your options are as far as forcing him out of the house, etc.

He wants two years to get the kids on a good path? He's ALREADY HAD TWENTY. If he hasn't gotten around to it by now then two more won't do him any good.

See a lawyer. A good one who will be a good backbone for you. YOU ARE WORTH IT.


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AH,

People who are in the beginning stages of an A are not right up in their heads. Totally messed up and they block out everything in their minds except the OW/OM. It is all about getting their "fix" from the dopamine....OW/OM. They behave like a drug addict.

Yes, I agree with other posters that you really need to take proactive steps to protect yourself financially. The one problem is that you are a SAHM, right? Your H is the primary breadwinner...is that right?

Lastly, you really need to be calm and firm when talking about the OW. She is nothing. She's an annoying gnat. Give your H the look and say, "Really?!" when talking about taking OW to the Bahamas. Simply say, "It is totally inappropriate and I am not having this conversation. I am not going to cover up or lie for you."

When H said that wants to talk to the kids, he's trying to control the narrative here. In his mind, you two will sit down with the kids and H will most likely want to say this to them: "Mom and I have decided to separate. We are not happy and drifted apart. Nothing will change. You will continue to live here in the house."

Don't roll over and just do what H says. Take back your own personal power and put your foot down.

Look, H already fired you as a wife so he's already checked out and gone. How much worse can it get??! Exactly. You've already faced the tough stuff and you're still standing.

Another thing that usually scares the daylights out of people is the LBS telling the kids and family of the actual truth. That, of course, will send them spewing. Not your problem. Affairs thrive under the cover of darkness.

Notice what happens when you overturn a big rock outside on the ground? All crawlies scurrying like crazy at being exposed to the sunlight/light.

FYI, I've had a front row seat to my late father's numerous affairs and I didn't die when learning of them. The truth does not kill people.


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AHW- Are you still with us?


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Yes raliced I am still here. A lot has happened since my last post although nothing has really changed. On Tuesday morning my father-in-law passed away. I pretty much dropped everything and tried to be supportive and we had a couple of nice days. My H debated about whether to go on the trip to Napa but in the end decided to go because my father-in-law had made all his arrangements and would have wanted him to go. I didn't have the heart to back out under the circumstances.

Wed and Thurs were nice days and I hoped to have four good days but them the texting started up again right under my nose where I could not escape it. Then he discovered that I was not wearing my wedding rings and went balistic--seems to be all about me not why I might have decided to stop wearing them.

So last night we took the red eye home from San Francisco to Virginia then had about an hour of sleep before family visitation and a funeral tomorrow. I am trying to overlook a lot of fatigue, and stress, but he has really turned into a hateful person today and I seem to be getting the brunt of the anger. Non stop texting the OW, plenty of digs and comparisons.

Dreading this week. Looking for a counselor to get started on me and started Co-Dependency for Dummies. Trying to get back to working on me but feeling really low and lonely....and frankly not liking my H very much right now.


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AH, although I love my H like crazy, there are definitely days since this has started that I really don't like him very much. I think some blinders come off when this happens and we can see our H's a little differently before. In all honestly, my H and I never really argued for the 23 years. I really did think we had the perfect marriage. Surprise!

Two things for you to think about.
One: You asked me before my vacation about what you can do to GAL. What did you used to do before the kids? What were your interests or likes? I would say go back to those roots. Or think if there is anything you wish you learned, and take some classes. Better yet, would your sons like to take a class with you? Maybe Judo or something? Helps with ADHD.

Two: My H texts all the time in front of me, smiling at it like it's his new best friend. It drives me crazy!! To DB I either totally ignore it and continue to watch the program I was watching, etc. Or I leave the room to go play with my S or do something somewhere else. I've actually gone and taken a walk when he does it.

I'm glad you're still on here and I think you're making the right steps. You just need to find a way to GAL more. I've started scrapbooking again too.


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So I'm getting mixed messages and not sure how to keep from getting sucked into talking about the relationship and reacting to OM

On Tues my H had to visit his lawyer (some inlaw fighting over caregiving issues with the parents) out of the blue he texted me

"i'm sorry i have gotten us in this bad spot
U r best person I have ever known
Loved me in spite of flaws
U have treated me better than anyone"

Not sure how to respond I said "still love you. Its tough. Thats what love is good and bad"

A couple of hours later he texts me again to see if I wanted to buy the lawyers season tickets to my alma mater for football and baseball. 6 months ago i would have jumped at the thought of this but I didnt even have an answer.

I ignored the message and he called me a little while later. After asking me why i sound so sad he broached the tickets again. He said it would be a good family activity. I said I don't know and he said you mean because of the affair? Then said, "well she went to school there too maybe she would like to go. Then he said sorry bad joke that would be awkward.

Fast forward to that evening. Called him because his work sent over dinner as a sympathy gesture. Turns out he was with the OW. He came home later and we talked about our situation he said he regretted all the hateful things he said about me it's not my fault. I'm his best friend and we have built so much over the past 22 years and he is ripped right down the middle because I can't give him the taboo and excitement of a new partner

He left Wednesday morning for a work trip. I do confess to sending a bitchy text about my daughter not needing his help anymore so he could go to the Bahamas with the OW guilt free. He texted back "OK thank you" stupid I know..not sure if that means he thinks its really ok with me and he is going or he was distracted and not paying attention

So I vowed not to call or text again. He called Wed night and we had brief talk. I stayed dark all day Thursday and went out to dinner with work clients. He called my cell at 830, then home, then the boys who told him I was out. so he texted me

"hey going out. Talk later. boys said u were out. Have fun be safe"

I didnt answer and at 11:00 pm he sent "U oK" so I said "yes of course" and told him he had gotten a letter from the lawyer. Havent heard from him since.

So sorry for the long post but he will be home tonight Friday and I don't know how to act. I am anticipating him being tired tonight then wanting to go work on his garden on Saturday then being with the OW from Sunday afternoon until sometime Monday afternoon. Am I distant, friendly. Do I suggest trying to do something fun on Saturday?


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AHW-

I'm really worried that I'm going to come across as way too much of a harda** here. So, if that is the case, I apologize in advance.

Tell me, what consequences has he had to face as a result of his actions? Any, at all? From what you've written he's had problems and treated you badly for years. Right now, he's having another affair and trying to shove the OW down your throat.And, it kind of seems like you are letting him. The fact that he spends a few minutes texting you some nice things does not remotely balance his wildly inappropriate behavior and blatant disregard for your wellbeing.

When I read and comment on a lot of threads, it is with the general hope that the marriage can be saved. In your situation , I worry a lot more about you.

You mention a letter from a lawyer. Have you seen a lawyer? You left that part out.

(((AHW)))


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No worries raliced. I know I need some tough love. You are correct there have not really been any consequences for my H. I am a little confused by that. It seems that DB advises even if the spouse is still involved in the affair to work on myself GAL /PMA , not whining, pleading and talking about saving the marriage. Obviously he knows that is what I want with changes from him. I know that while he has done a lot of bad things I made mistakes too. So I have been trying to carry on and distance myself a little bit. I have set some boundaries about his texting and talking about her.

I have broached the subject of him moving out which terrifies me. I have said that if he goes on the Bahamas trip it is time to tell our kids what is going on. It does seem that he is getting everything he wants with no consequences and so there is no discomfort in the affair just in being with me. But really don't clearly understand how to follow DB and have consequences

And no I saw a lawyer in the past so have a pretty good idea as far as that goes. The lawyer I referenced is helping him with his parents. He is the Power of Attorney who makes caregiver decisions.


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AHW

Your H is addicted. This is an addicts behaviour.

lovely AHW, you are enabling your H in his addiction. The addictions have control of H, he will not face this until he has to.

Please look after AHW and those precious children, first and foremost the twins need a leader and that has to be you.

I am glad you are posting.

V


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It keeps getting worse. Sunday is always a bad day because that is the day my H spends the night at our cabin with the OW; however, on this Sunday I asked him his plans and he said he was going to fly his plane and do something for him. I said in preparation for going to the Bahamas? and he said yes. So the trip is still on and i got very upset and said it will change everything and he probably needs to move out, tell kids etc.

I had been thinking all day Saturday and while I was alone on Sunday about the whole sex addict thing and how he isn't ready to change or put any effort into us etc. so kind of getting resigned to the fact that if he moved out it would be hard but I could start to heal and some remote possibility that he might miss me and the kids and our life once he wasn't with us and life got real with the OW.

So very sad but a little resigned to a separation. So he came home and said he needed to talk that I pushed him into a corner, but
i can tell the kids if I want to --he's not doesn't think they need to know
He won't go to Bahamas if I really don't want him to but it won't change anything
I had my chance and now he is going to go for it with OW
No more sex. it leads me on. I proved my point i can have sex and it upsets OW
Get help from a therapist if I need it but he's not going with me

it was frustrating because OW kept texting him and he said he had to deal with it she was having a crisis

So i said I have some thinking to do about next steps and so do you and left for work.
Forgot something and came back a few minutes later and as i was pulling in the driveway he called and said i want to ask you something. Walked in the room and he was sitting there with a big erection and asked me if I was really serious about working on everything including our sex life and proceeded to ask if i would do certain things

OK I know it was stupid but we had sex. I asked him what he was doing and why and he said he just wanted to see if i was really serious

Anyway afterwards I went back to work (I'm in sales so I have a lot of flexibility) I got set up to tallk with an IC tonight who also deals with sex addictions. I thought he would be a good starting place to help me since he would be intimately aware of how situations like mine affect both spouses. Then I went home to pick up some things for my son and H was still there so I asked him what the sex was about and why he did it. He said he didn't know and I said it was pretty crummy because nothing has changed and he said everythng haschanged.

So that set my alarm bells off. My first question was does she have an STD. He said no then got really quiet and said he didn't know if he could tell me. But out with it and he said she could never have kids with her husband and she is 41 and he said if she really wanted to he would do it with her. The man is 54, hasn't been that great of a dad, is extremely narcissitic, has 3 kids already on the planet who need him and he has known this woman for 5 months! I freaked and said oh God is she pregnant. No but she was going to get tested to see if it was possiblee, etc and of course it is a big rush because she has a 1 year window. And then he breaks down and says in the course of her exam she had a mammogram because he found a lump and she has breast cancer


Now my first reaction is I don't even believe this but even if it is true ...he feels so sorry for her because he loves her and they aren't about sex and she doesn't have parents and only the husband, and she's all alone. so it sounds like he is going to leave us to care for a woman he barely knows because she has breast cancer. And the whole baby thing might be off now, but his kids don't need him. My twins don't care about him, and they will be in college in 2 years and yes he'll have to help pay for that and my daughter is graduating from college in 2 years so she will be on her own. No thought for how they will feel.....

and i know I sound like a coldhearted B**** but he's suddenly not going to be about sex anymore and become this selfless, compassionate, caring person for OW and when she has to have surgery ? Mr. Visual is going to just be happy and in love?

So I guess this is the 2nd bomb. I am spinning. Good that I saw the therapist tonight. I do feel a little calmer but I feel like this can't be real


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Why can't I just let go?


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I'm sorry I missed seeing last night's update till just now.

LET GO. He is so playing you it makes me mad to see how he's abusing you.

You will not believe how light your life can feel without him BLATANTLY ABUSING YOU. Do it so your kids -- especially your daughter -- can see how strong you are. Do it for them, so they don't think this is normal and OK. I can't believe he's seriously asking you all these things as though this is normal.

For what it's worth, we all go through this. But there has to be an end to it. How would you feel if you got to be 85 and you looked back on your life and this is what your life had been like... and STAYED like? Because you know he's not going to change. Why would you want this to be your one and only experience of life? Of marriage?

I KNOW YOU CAN DO BETTER.

I don't want to be too harsh but I DO want you to believe in your own power.

*Don't have sex with him again.
*Get STD tested.
*Don't worry about him having another baby, seeing her through cancer, whatever. Not your monkey, not your circus.
*Get a lawyer and put that person TO WORK. Protect yourself and your kids. If he does have another kid you want to make sure you've protected everything that needs protecting from him.

DO NOT PUT UP WITH THIS ANOTHER MINUTE. There is nothing to work with here. You can do better. You deserve better. Your kids deserve better.

(((((((AHW)))))))


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This is for you:

Fear does not stop death [my addition: or divorce]. It stops life.

Don't you feel like your life has been consumed by the crazy? Isn't it worth more than that?

MORE HUGS FOR YOU.


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Originally Posted By: AHW99
Why can't I just let go?
Hello AHW,

I just caught up with your entire sitiuation. I'm sorry you are here but hope you have discovered that this is the best place for you to be now. I joined Christmas Day and have found this site to like one huge, loving family.

Tha answer to your question is easy. You've been married 22 years. It is very normal, even though your H is in an A. My situation is different. My W walked out on me and filed for D 6 months ago, yet I still love her. She has MS and felt I was smothering her (being over-protective) which I was but didn't realize it. The only reason I bring up my sitch is because no matter how badly or immature our spouse is acting, the one who wants to save the M usually has a very hard time letting go. I sure do.

Wonka, always gives great advice and though-provoking qestions, and has helped me so much.

Wonka posted this a while ago in your thread and I think it's important to keep this is mind:
"People who are in the beginning stages of an A are not right up in their heads. Totally messed up and they block out everything in their minds except the OW/OM. It is all about getting their "fix" from the dopamine....OW/OM. They behave like a drug addict."

I will dedicate a prayer to you tonight, AHW. wink

Your new friend - Bob

{{{AHW}}}


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Hello again AHW,

I;m not a super-religious guy but have always found this bible verse comforting. I have posted it in other's threads and most people have replied that it really helped them -- at least for a little while.

Here it is:
“‘For I know the plans I have for you,’ declares the LORD, ‘plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future’” (Jeremiah 29:11).

Bob


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AHW

Addicts behave like addicts.

You are dealing with an addiction not a person. This is more than just infidelity and as Maybell says it is major abuse. You may never know about the drama going on. All sounds like hokum to me. lumps can also be cysts too, all sorts of things. I would not wish cancer on anyone not even an OW, but running this with babies is deeply deeply worrying.

I second Maybell, this is abusive by AH (addicted H).

AHW I too deal with an addicted STBXH and it is very difficult to know truth from lies. They may also do anything to stay in addiction. When H is stressed he will relieve that stress by returning to pattern and his addiction. This is the reality he can not but cheat on OW with OW2 etc. there will always be POWs.

You and the twins deserve better.

I just wished I could reach out a give you a really big hug.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 05/05/15 06:36 PM.

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AHW- I'm glad Maybell, Vanilla and Bob have reached out to you.

I read your most recent posting last night and really had to stop and think about how to respond in an effective way.

AHW- Many marriages in various states of failure are described on these boards. There are a multitude of reasons they are troubled - but for the most part, while I am sympathetic, I am able to read them fairly dispassionately. Not so with yours. I get agitated every time I read an update.

Your husband's behavior is outrageous and abusive. I do not use either of those terms commonly and I do not say them lightly.

Please stop living this way.

He is not to be trusted in any way - not financially, not sexually and not as a father.

I can't say it any better than Maybell except to say X1000

Originally Posted By: Maybell

*Don't have sex with him again.
*Get STD tested.
*Don't worry about him having another baby, seeing her through cancer, whatever. Not your monkey, not your circus.
*Get a lawyer and put that person TO WORK. Protect yourself and your kids. If he does have another kid you want to make sure you've protected everything that needs protecting from him.

DO NOT PUT UP WITH THIS ANOTHER MINUTE. There is nothing to work with here. You can do better. You deserve better. Your kids deserve better.

(((((((AHW)))))))


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AHW, the only thing I have to add is maybe find out if you can see your IC more than once a week right now as this seems like a crisis period.

You do not deserve this!!!!


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Wow AHW99... I've only read a little bit of your situation. I'm sorry you're here.

I have a narcissistic STBXW who's be very abusive to me, our S7, etc.

It's hard to let go and that's ok. Key thing is to recognize that you still need to protect yourself and your kids as much as you can.

Just as an FYI... I have some things on my thread that I did in preparation for filing against my wife that might be thought starters from a preparation perspective.


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Originally Posted By: Bob723
Originally Posted By: AHW99
Why can't I just let go?
Hello AHW,

I will dedicate a prayer to you tonight, AHW. wink

Your new friend - Bob

{{{AHW}}}
Hello AHW,

I wanted to inform you that I remembered to dedicate a prayer just to you and your sitch last night.

One can never have too many prayers said on their behalf. wink

I wish you well. Hang tough!

Bob


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Thanks for the prayers Bob and the verse. I agree you can never have too many prayers. All of the support here has been great. Some days I feel a little panicky but keeping busy helps. I will say a prayer for you too!


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Thanks Maybell. I am starting to see. The visit with therapist helped me to focus back on me and our kids. He said, based on what I told him, it was possible my H has Narcissistic Personality and may be bi-polar. I did some reading and it was both heartbreaking uncanny to read the descriptions of how Narcissists treat spouses.

I am feeling stronger but some days are better than others


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Thanks Raliced. I do know you are right. Sometimes they just have a way of making you doubt yourself and give you just enough to make you believe it's possible. I'm getting stronger and working through it.

While I dread the upcoming Bahamas trip I know it will help me to detach and see that I can make it.


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AHW, I'm pushing you hard, but in my perfect universe he would come home from the Bahamas to find his cr@p in garbage bags on the front porch and you with a divorce petition ready to be served.

Would you be OK with your daughter taking back a guy who blatantly took another woman on a dream vacation?

If not, then why are you permitting yourself to be treated that way? And why are you showing her that it's OK to be treated that way?

If I knew you IRL I would come to your house and hold your hand through giving this abuser THE BOOT.

Last edited by Maybell; 05/07/15 07:18 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Maybell
Would you be OK with your daughter taking back a guy who blatantly took another woman on a dream vacation?

If not, then why are you permitting yourself to be treated that way? And why are you showing her that it's OK to be treated that way?
Hello AHW,

I'm happy to hear you're seeing a therapist. That's a good start.

I can't agree more with Maybell. You deserve much better than this!

Bob


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I also agree with Maybell that it is time to solidly stand up for yourself and your values. I would love to see his stuff packed neatly in the garage with a note to say he can come and get it by X date - if not it's going to the dump..

And you can say to him - fine, go on your trip - but that's the implication H - up to you...

Find your inner power...


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How are things, AHW?


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I guess it depends on how you look at things. So much has happened in such a short time. My head is spinning. My H said he was definitely going on bahamas trip with OW and I said expect that it will change everything if you do. He proceede to play some serious mind games with me my asking me if OW could borrow my snorkeling gear for the trip. I said NO how could you even ask such a question. Then he said she didn't really need my stuff had her own. So I said why would you ask then. His answer was basically to prove how selfish I was. Turns out she really did need to borrow it because her stuff is in NC with her husband who she doesnt want to know she is going on the trip.
so screwed up.

Then we all went to see my daughter at college for a special sorority thing she had asked us to go to. H was a real jerk the whole day and night. All kinds of cruel comments and then Mother's day sucked. So I was pretty much ready for him to get the hell out.

On Tuesday my H informed me that the OW is confirmed by biopsy to have breast cancer. He is very vague about what his intentions are. Says he is not going to abandon us but would be a horrible person if he abandoned his "friend" in her time of need. They left on Wed for bahamas. He texted me that he loved me and thanks for letting him get away. I did not answer any of his texts (4 on Fri/Sat asking how we were, etc then saying I have decided to hate him and he wished I would talk to him) He texted the kids but very superficial. They answered but were very cool as I explained to them what was going on

I spoke with a lawyer by phone today and have an appt. with another tomorrow. As I understand it in order to get him to move out I have to file for a divorce. I know it is what I need to do I just wish I could slow things down a little.

He is back at our cabin. Called to say he made it back and would let me know his plans. He did not come Home. Had to wash his plane, get dinner, feed the chickens. He is exhausted and can't deal with me tonight. Not surprised and a little relieved, but still hurt to be so low on the list of priorities. And I ache for my kids who he feels like he can drop in and out of their lives as he sees fit because he is tired and needs to feed the chickens

sorry for the long post. Have been holding this all in


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I'm so sorry to read all of this AH. Your H is being unbelievably blatant. As though he believes you are/should be fine with his ongoing infidelity. That mindset probably isn't going to change any time soon, and I think protection and self-preservation should be uppermost in your mind.

He has nothing good to offer you just now, and wants you to a) be his friend and b) have a permissive attitude towards he and OW.

I think you are absolutely right to progress legal stuff at this stage. Take care ((((AW)))


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So my story keeps getting more and more bizarre and, and if possible, even sadder. Have been to 2 lawyers who were both wonderful. I have a firm grasp on what I need to do and how. Now I just need to gather my courage and start the process. A few more steps to take but mostly just need a little time. Everything has happened too fast. Filing for divorce is a little like having to cut off your own leg to save yourself.

Yesterday I got an email from OW telling me she knows I wish she would just disappear but that isn't likely to happen now. It was very long winded and manipulative but telling me that maybe we could all get together and "collaborate" on how to make our situation more manageable. She recognizes he has poor time management skills and difficulty "balancing his in-the-moment wants versus his ongoing responsibilities". Neither of us want him to be in the middle but he chose to "put himself in the middle when he sought and began a relationship with her whilst married to, living with and raising children" with me. She cares very deeply for my H and believes that I do too and she feels badly and thinks it is unnecessarily stressful for me when "he neglects specific obligations or otherwise doesn't communicate effectively and/or completely with me regarding his time with her". "Perhaps we can work together to minimize the negative impact his choice to be in significant, simultaneous relationships with you and me has on his responsibilities as a father". She wanted to see if I want to talk. It's nit her goal to be friends (because of that whole reality thing) etc

I wanted to fire off a two word reply starting with "F" but I ignored the message. When my H came home he said "I understand she sent you a really nice email"
He totally did not get why I was livid. And he agreed with her that her going away is "not going to happen!"

Than this afternoon I received another email with the subject "you win"

...by default , cancer takes all
Congratulations

I have no idea what that means except that maybe her cancer is more serious and somehow it is my fault. Doesn't change anything for me. My husband still has issues, chose another woman over me and she may die a martyr. Not really a win for me. He called me to ask why I wasn't home when he got there and I said I didn't know he was coming home. He said a few snippy things and when I said I don't want to argue he said " I'm not going to argue with you. I will never let you goad me into an argument again" . I just said sounds like maybe now isn't a good time for us to talk. He came home hasn't had much to say, does appear somewhat sad and is playing some John Denver love song which I assume she sent him

Just all a little more than I can take. Any advice


Me:54 H:54
M: 22 years
Kids: 3 D:20 S:16 S:16
BD: 3/21/15 PA/EA begun 11/14
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AHW - I think you know what I am going to say (the same thing I've been saying to you).

But first of all, let me say that I know it's much easier for me to say these things in my position simply reading about them, then it is for you, who has been married to this man for 22 years, to hear them.

What exactly are you trying to save here? You haven't written anything that indicates that this marriage is worth saving. This doesn't appear to be a crisis or an anomaly for your husband - he's been treating you badly for many, many years.

Sometimes, I think its hard to see just how crazy a situation has gotten when we are in the middle of it - but AHW - this is just plain crazy. Stop letting him force his gross OW (who sounds b** s*** crazy, by the way) and other life on you.

I can't really think of anything he could say or do at this point that would make things better, but regardless, he's not going to change his ways without a firm stance by you.

Take your power AHW. You are worth more than this. Your children deserve better than this.


2 Ds: 7 and 4
BD and Sep: 7/14
Divorce Final 2/16
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Thank you Raliced. I'm done. I'm out. It's over. My H just came into our bedroom and woke me up and said he was going to leave at (1230 am). Said he'd try to be around in the evening for the boys, but his friend got some bad news today and he was going to be with her, take the day off tomorrrow. I said what do you mean are you leaving for good?

He said doctors told her to take the next year off and she was going to have chemo and radical double mastectomy and he was not going to abandon her. I broke down and started sobbing because it hurts. He told me i was selfish and to get over it. I cannot believe all the hateful things he said to me. He said he didnt care about me and if i was hurt, I am a bitch and he wasted 23 years with me. Then he proceeded to text her about me and she ran me down and passed her judgement on our marriage. I asked him to please stop that I didn't want this to be our legacy after 22 years and saying things that hurt and we could never take back.

He is mad that I told our kids says it was none of their business but thank God I did. They have at least had a week to prepare for this. I still can't believe the things that came out of his mouth. He was so cold and so cruel, completely unable to understand my pain.

Tomorrow I will finish gathering the info needed to file for divorce and call the lawyer,

I would appreciete any advice on how to hold things together for myself and my family. How do I deal with him popping in and out. Lawyers say in our state cant force him to move out. May not happen until he gets a lawyer and they advise him to leave. Any way to get him to stop being such an [censored] other than to totally refuse to talk to him. I know he is mentally ill and probably feeling guilty so spewing hate to make himself feel better. It still hurts to think someone I loved and tried so hard to have a good marriage with could come to this. I'm trying to hold it together and not let him destroy my self esteem.


Me:54 H:54
M: 22 years
Kids: 3 D:20 S:16 S:16
BD: 3/21/15 PA/EA begun 11/14
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AWH, I'm so sorry - that's awful. And sad that he said such mean things too. He is deep in fog and with a woman who sounds emotionally fragile too. Bear in mind that he may have told her negative things about your M, and she may believe she is rescuing him from a 'witchy' wife. I would ignore any communications with her - as V once said - she's a wormette, and not worthy of your wisdom.

AH, focusing on him just now is going to bring misery, misery, misery. He has nothing good to offer you just now. So, I would focus on three things - you - your family and legal protection. I would pack up his stuff and leave it in the garage for him to pick up. And I would choose the best of the two L's and follow their advice. Who knows what may happen in the longer term, but please remove your focus from him and OW. I wouldn't wish such illness on anyone & that's a sad thing whomever she is and whatever she may have done. He is in a miserable situation. There's nothing you can do for him just now - only save yourself! Take care (((((AW))))))


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks Toots. I am trying. Everyday is a new day and I am getting stronger but I have such a crushing loneliness and fears of the unknown. I am trying to be strong for the kids. I can stay busy and I'm ok but sometimes I just get hit with panic and thoughts that I can't turn off.

Looking for a thread or others to talk with who have successfully navigated these next steps or are going through it now to give each other support.


Me:54 H:54
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Don't really have much to add, but I'm thinking of you and wishing you the best.


At BD - Me: 33 Her: 33; M: 10 T: 15; D: 6 and 3

BD: 3/25/15
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D: 11/9/15
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Hey, AHW, I'm so sorry this is how it is playing out for you.

If it helps any, I've more or less been there, though the most gruesome parts where the OW was sort of in my face (though not NEARLY to the extent yours was) were over before I got to DB. But if you read my threads you'll see that it was a long, bumpy road with a LOT of people holding my hands and shoring me up while I got the courage to move forward away from him.

My kids are younger than yours and do not know any of this and that still causes some painful moments sometimes, but I can live with that.

Last year on Mother's Day STBX gave me a lot of heartlessness and walked off and I wanted to hit him with something. But he just walked off. After the WORST Mother's Day ever. That was the worst it got (This was about ten months after I found out about OW). Little by little I found my strength and my voice and now I am glad to be rid of him, and I am nowhere near the woman he left. This is a very, very good thing.

I do still feel twinges of pain that this is how things worked out, and fear at being alone, but I'm taking everything a day at a time, relying heavily on my very, very, very good lawyer, and all the other help and expertise that has entered my life, and things are becoming manageable in bits.

Anti-depressants do help and I would suggest that if you're finding it difficult to move forward that you might seek them out for a short time. They can be a lifesaver in this kind of situation.

I am sorry I'm late replying to you -- the last couple of weeks have been INSANE -- but I can NOT believe the nerve of that OW actually emailing you directly and suggesting the two of you share your POS "husband." I hope someday you can find it in you to laugh at her insanity. It's really not worth any other response.

Keep us posted, I'm trying to keep an eye on you when I can come back to the boards. You will be OK. I'm glad your kids are in the know now and maybe can resolve things a little better for themselves. How are they doing?

HUGS to you, AHW.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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