Luke, to me, in order for MC to help, both parties have to be on or at least near the same page. Otherwise, it is just not going to go well.
Yea, you do have to work towards forgiveness and acceptance of what happened and let go of wanting her to seem really apologetic about it. At least for right now.
As I told you, rarely does the MLCer, at least in the early stages of reconnection, apologize and tell all the things the spouse thinks they need to hear.
I get your fear. I get your hesitation, too. I guess you have to decide if you are willing to see where this is going to go. If you are, then, MC would be the next step.
Hopefully once she talks to OMW, she will be able to let all of that go, too.
I wish she would go to IC, but, you cant make that happen.
So, you have some decisions to make. If you decide to go to MC, please try to find a solutions based one, if you can.
I agree with the on/near the same page concept, I guess I just question the speed of it all ... reading some old/archived stories seems that I am not the only one with the "Whoa this is going to fast .. hold up.. am I the only one who recalls the past few years of destruction .. .will this be addressed?" type feelings/responses. Lately I am getting more glimpses of the old W while she seems to still be patching her in with the new W, as she is often talking future ... long term things, I just listen for the most part accepting it for what it is. She is more self conscious, asking me if she has always been this way or that way, asking about the STD issue ... feeling like she is temp checking to see my reaction of that as if to figure if I accept her this way. For me .. just observing this, must be horrible in their heads, exhausting .. heck its exhausting just watching it from afar. I shudder thinking about being in their shoes ... yeah in a way I feel sorry for her, seems she is waking up and walking around a town that was just leveled by a twister and she is trying to gather memories and figure out how she will sort through and make a life of this mess
In other news..... Cali is getting his ducks in a row and trying to get things back together. I set up a Dr apt for myself ... hip has been barking for a month or two ... I am not Dr but I dont think hips should be barking. Looking at rotating the tires on my vehicle this weekend, I have 1 year left on the lease and fully intend on turning that puppy in with bald tires, not new ones ....lol. I also hope to work on the Harley ... its been over 2 months since the wreck and I think I can make all the repairs myself ... have to .. $$ is tight now that I am in the new place. Pretty sure I have some stuff in storage that will sell this weekend. Busy weekend but looking like I will get some things accomplished!
For me .. just observing this, must be horrible in their heads, exhausting .. heck its exhausting just watching it from afar. I shudder thinking about being in their shoes ...
Nope. It ain't pretty at all in that noggin. Just thank your lucky stars that you were not hit by the Great Grim MLC Reaper.
but I was driving today and got a phone call from a guy I worked with 6 or 7 years ago. He called to talk because we worked fairly closely and he knew I went through a MLC and described it to him back then.
He wanted to talk because he was in a bad way mentally and was really struggling. He described MLC as far as I know what it is really accurately.
It's no walk in the park. I did tell him to see the journey through as there is gold at the end but your fingers will be bloodied and probably a few more things digging for it.
Luke, I've been thinking about you. Yea, well, it happens sometimes. LOL!
Anyway, I want to say a few things. This...all of it..should not ever be at the expense of you. Ever.
That said, should you have compassion for your wife? Yes. She is in crisis, which is a horrific thing to go through. She is the mother of your child and a large part of your life story.
But that doesnt mean that she gets a free pass. It doesnt mean that she doesnt need to own her actions at some point. It doesnt mean that just because she may be reconnecting, that you have to do anything that doesnt feel right to you.
The reason for that is that you matter, too.
So, think about MC because I know that you want to try to do the right thing. I know that much about you.
Dont do it for that reaason. It wont work. And the truth is, I feel she needs to be further along. I think that what you are going to hear there isnt necessarily what you want to hear. Not at this point.
Now you may be ok with that. Going in with that mindset. Seeing where it goes.
But it can also set you and she back if not done at the right time, with the right person and with your expectations in the right place.
As I said, you matter, too. It has to be in your best interests at your particular place in your journey.
It should not be JUST because its the correct thing. It shouldnt be just because she may be reconnecting.
It should be because you want to see if your relationship is worth saving. Not as an obligation. Not as a fallback.
But because you see the possibilities.
I will support you in whatever you choose. I hope you know that by now. I care a great deal about you. I hope you know that, too.
Luke, I've been thinking about you. Yea, well, it happens sometimes. LOL!
Anyway, I want to say a few things. This...all of it..should not ever be at the expense of you. Ever.
That said, should you have compassion for your wife? Yes. She is in crisis, which is a horrific thing to go through. She is the mother of your child and a large part of your life story.
But that doesnt mean that she gets a free pass. It doesnt mean that she doesnt need to own her actions at some point. It doesnt mean that just because she may be reconnecting, that you have to do anything that doesnt feel right to you.
The reason for that is that you matter, too.
uR .... I read this via phone over the weekend a few times, seems just as I was struggling in this area I really had to step back .... I could feel W sucking me back in and I was resisting like a cat about to get a bubble bath. And that "Free Pass" thing was one of the things eating at me, that and the fact I discovered OM was in the picture not 3-4 days prior to her "Im sorry I want to work on the M" plea .... seems to be her trend .. no space between .... again not having all the info and only having tidbits has been frustrating, but I realized I do not have to be on this ride, I lost track of that. Like you said .. I matter, I think its so easy to focus on the MLC'rs and make it all about them, voice what they have done, focus on them that we forget about ourselves and that's when the major spin cycles happen ... I seen this starting so I got off ... thankfully.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
So, think about MC because I know that you want to try to do the right thing. I know that much about you.
Dont do it for that reaason. It wont work. And the truth is, I feel she needs to be further along. I think that what you are going to hear there isnt necessarily what you want to hear. Not at this point.
Now you may be ok with that. Going in with that mindset. Seeing where it goes.
But it can also set you and she back if not done at the right time, with the right person and with your expectations in the right place.
As I said, you matter, too. It has to be in your best interests at your particular place in your journey.
It should not be JUST because its the correct thing. It shouldnt be just because she may be reconnecting.
It should be because you want to see if your relationship is worth saving. Not as an obligation. Not as a fallback.
But because you see the possibilities.
I will support you in whatever you choose. I hope you know that by now. I care a great deal about you. I hope you know that, too.
As far as MC goes, and yeah it was discussed again over the weekend a couple times. I can not mindread, even if my Jedi training has been amazing, but I just get the gut feel ... its an uneasy feel that its one of two things. I get a hunch that W feels like the A did not pan out, and she goes through with MC to either say she tried and forces me to file for D because she is scared to, Maybe its the last ditch to prove she 'tried' so she can remove the guilt she feels (Guilt has been pretty obvious this past week or so) ....... Or maybe its dipping a pinkie tow into MC using it as her way to get some IC out of it. I am not feeling that its a "I am committed to us, I know I screwed up and will do anything to save this M" because honestly I just do not think the MLC works that way nor would her pride/stubborness allow her to admit that at this time. As you said ... sure we have history ... but saving the M just to save it is not what I am interested in, this is the rest of my life I am looking at and I want to share that with someone.... who that is remains to be determined at this point.
As it stands I have told her I need to feel like its a good time for us both, I have some things I need to get over/work through ... as I can imagine she does as well ... update to follow up on those things.
I was going to post yesterday in my normal "Look what happened to me over the weekend" fashion .... but W and I got into it a little bit and I just needed to sort through things .... decided to dive into work and just let things go for a bit.
Confession time ... W has had the dog at her place for the past week, its actually better for me, no stress about the dog, she can take care of him for a bit ... however she decided that since she does not get home till later, it would be better for me to swing by and walk him after work ... no problem really, so she gave me a key to her place. At first I was actually surprised she did this, like a teenager she wanted her room locked at all times kinda thing. So I have been walking the dog all week .. no big deal. Friday S wanted to show me something on the ipad and her email was open .... yup .. snooped a bit. Nothing to contradict the past events but there were some older emails there and I read some things I should not have .. nothing that shocked me but still hurt nonetheless. Confirmed OM came over to 'rub her neck' after she hurt it at the gym, about a week or so prior to the beach talk of "I want to work on the M" I should not have done this as it fed 'hurt little boy' and created some issues for me over the weekend, but after all the on and offs I wanted to verify OM is out of the picture as I still do not trust her, even though she seems to be wanting to open up and tell the truth.
So Later that night W comes over to pick up S, wanted to chit chat and we started talking. Actually talked about the A and OM as I told her we can not just act like it did not happen, she tried to tell me it was not what it seemed .... I actually laughed at her, she has herpes because of all this and I asked how does it "seem" smirking at the mind reading she was performing. She told me they did not spend as much time together as I assumed. With that she shared that she knew she destroyed my trust but pointed out I never trusted her ... we talked about this and why. Then she said if I had any questions she would answer them .... this surprised me, I did ask how long the A went as some monster things she said it could have been over the past couple years (This was what I thought) or maybe the past 5 or so years. She told me how they met, then he pursued as he was gettinga D 3 years ago (Still has not happened) and how our issues mounted and she just wanted out. Was actually a good calm talk up until she did try to defend him a bit ... she said something along the lines of "I know he is a liar and used me but he is a nice ... " I told her sternly .. "do not defend that POS in my house, you can go be with him if he is such a great guy and that is who you want." ...may not have been the proper thing to say .. but it just felt she forgot she was talking to her husband who the A hurt for a second .. she apologized .. I actually thanked her for being open and honest knowing that it was not easy for her and that was a big step as far as I was concerned to rebuild what was lost. She stayed a bit then took S back to her place.
Saturday S had a game, W actually called me early and invited me to a place we used to always grab breakfast at in a funny TM sort of way. Things I have noticed .. she makes it a point to sit next to me. We had a nice breakfast ... she insisted on paying, went to S's game, had a good time there. I dropped them off at her place and went home to clean up, W asked if I wanted to come over and watch a movie ... I decided to go. I arrived as they were just finishing up, started a movie and W fell asleep *Cali issue alert* ... as I am there watching the movie .. W asleep I found myself thinking .. I always used to find that cute, she would be out ... then I started spinning .. if I were OM I doubt she would be asleep, I doubt she would have been running around in sweats ... I started getting angry about it. I put S to bed and as I was leaving she woke up confused as to what was going on .. I simply said goodnight and went home and finished watching the movie there.
Sunday W called, apologized for falling asleep, asked if we were still going to church but wanted to go later. I told her later would be fine and we talked about ^^^ I told her how I felt. She got a bit defensive, I told her it was not fair for me to compare and I do not want to be that way but sometimes I sit at her place and there are triggers, then the spinning for me starts ... I atleast got it off my chest but realized there is no way she can deal with my pain and deal with what she is going through at the same time. She chalked it up to sharing Friday night and thats why I was like this .. does not want to talk about OM or the A again .... I let it go .. but realize that elephant will have to be adressed at some point .... I also realized that I put all that hurt and pain in a lock box when I let go of the rope, figured I would not have to deal with the betrayal and hurt ... as with all I have learned in MLC .. wrong again Cali.
So we went to church, I arrived early and was reading the days readings, W and S arrived just in time S was upset I had him sit on one side and W on the other of me ... had S smiling within a few short minutes. The homily ... ugh ... W must have felt the entire church was staring at her, she was literally restless, grabbing her neck, all tense, after mass ended I walked her out to the car, as she sat she just looked like a wreck, I asked her if she was ok, I genuinely was concerned and not as a H, more as just a person. She shared she was lost, felt no connection with the church because of all the guilt, not after everything she destroyed .... I was able to share with her some things I learned, things I had gone through, was actually a really good talk and she went shopping as S and I went to do our thing.
Later W TM asking if she could come over and nap, she did not want to sleep alone at her place. Seems to be a trend, the past few weeks Sunday is my time with S, we are active and do things and W does not want to be alone, I have invited her on some things but as we were just going to watch a movie I was a little dim with W later that day. Sure enough she shows and goes and sleeps in my bed, wakes up later and goes home. Strangest things really ... like a teen coming home to feel safe and secure then off they go.
Last night W spoke with OMW, told me it was 'an interesting 2 hours" that OMW was cordial as was W ... she was short and distant this morning, TM "sorry about this mornign but I did not want to talk about it" .... not my circus .. not my monkeys ... however my hopes are this A is now closed and done for all parties involved and people can start figuring how to pick up the pieces and move on ... with or without the WAS/MLC'rs
As for me .. I am back to center, that tornado outside is starting to lose power and I am at peace again. Sunday for me helped, just being in church and the feeling that came over me during Eucharist, hard to explain but I am so thankful for my faith. During the talk with W, she shared she was lost and not sure what to do, who to talk to .. I suggested a certain priest and she was open to the idea, time will tell if she goes that way I have learned she needs to put in the work and help herself at some point, I would feel that way for anyone, friend, relative, just so happens her and I were once married ... still are on paper I suppose ... but for the first time I do not really 'feel' she is my W any longer, and even more uncertain if she would be GF material to be honest. Again ... time will tell... I am still trying to work on me, I realized over the weekend I have much more to do.
Ok, so, I am gonna challenge you a bit here...cuz I can. Hee hee.
Here's what I think about forgiveness. You either make a decision that you are going to forgive at some point or you dont.
I am telling you that for a reason. Bear with me for a minute. I get that you are still hurt about the affair. I get that it is going to take you some time to get over it. Totally.
But you keep saying the elephant has to be addressed and I am wondering what you mean by that exactly. I mean you know about him and what happened. You know why and how it happened. So, what does addressing it look like to you?
Because here's the thing...holding onto it weighs you down. I am not saying forget it...at all. I am saying that at some point you need to let it go. You arent there yet..but that needs to be a goal.
And yea, the snooping...not a good idea, right? Doesnt serve you well.
I think the forgiveness part is for me, and at THIS point ... I have gone through the "its over, he and I are done" talks now for the what ... 5th time? So I find myself really not sold, even though this time things have happened that have not in the past 18 months.
To answer your question, yeah I have to get to a point where I've forgiven and let it go .. regardless of if the M survives or not. There are some seriously deep rooted pains I now find myself having to face and to be honest I do not know if I will ever be over them, almost seemed easier to let it go, blame her and MLC and carry on my way. This is harder ... as people here have said it would be. I had not ML with my wife for 4 years when she slept with OM and got herpes only 3 months after BD, sex was an issue between us, seems like an A was only the symptom not the cause (my observation in our M)... one I did not handle well during the M, and now its even more complicated, is this what I want, something I can live with, its a life time reminder of the A and that kinda stinks .... I am searching for those answers at this time.
What does addressing it look like to me? Well alot like what her and I did Friday, she was open and honest and laid out what happened and how the A slowly started,and then just at the right time the situation with our M, and his ... they both used each other .... I get that. I do not want any more secrets ... I do not really need to know all of what happened, I think I have learned enough from the past on where her and I went wrong, things I would use in any new R ... knowing if the R is strong and stable the A issue is not going to repeat itself. I guess speaking aloud ... there is little more I need at this point as far as the A and OM go ... other than to be assured its truly over...as of yet I have not seen anything that has convinced me. I asked Friday what if OM called her up and wanted to make their R work, her reply was "he doesn't want me" ... not a No way, I want M, or anything of that nature ... so my ears kinda perked up there, I have little trust in her ... she is at least owning that .... I told her it will take time and consistency on her part for me to trust it.
I do know letting go of this needs to be a goal and it is regardless of the M, but I am not to that point just yet ... I am slowly getting there, and like I told her Friday night I MUST arrive to a place I let it go because I do not want to use this over her, we both have been through enough and from what I have seen in between her emotional ups there is a good deal of guilt there I am just not sure of her motives for wanting the M at this point ... I have not been given what I feel are correct answers there.
