Wayward Wife and the Way of LRT

[pilot]

^^^^^^^

[Defacto]

Next time before she gets into her manifesto, stop her and say that she cannot and will not control you and your actions. That what she's experiencing is a result of HER actions and not yours. And that you felt morally obligated to talk to tell OM's W to protect her family and it had nothing to do with your W. Then end it.

Strong but firm. Think steely eyed Clint Eastwood where you are just looking at a crazy woman talking.

I mean she PUNISHED your D by not taking her to her party.

I understand this approach but won't this only lead to a nasty argument? I thought I was supposed to avoid arguments at this stage.

[MrBond]

How is this going to lead to an argument? All you're doing is what she's doing. You're doing what you want to do and she has NO RIGHT to try and control you. That's just more blameshifting on her part.

She will only start treating you like a man when you start acting like THE MAN.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Never mind. W called me after work and told me she just wasn't going to go to the party. I let her talk about the situation a bit, W said she was having a panic attack and she just turned around and went back home. W said she bribed D4 with a slurpee.

This is why you should have volunteered to take the kid. Your wife is unstable right now. Having "panic attacks" and racing around town with your daughter in the car. Plus you'd be in the company of your supportive friends versus sitting around dwelling on these conversations and text messages.

I told W how excited I was to spend the day with S1 and I told that I would see her tomorrow. I end the call.
--
15 minutes later, W calls back and asks me if I plan to do anymore crazy stuff. I ask W what she means and she refers again to me talking to OM's W. W says I'm responsible for her losing all her friends. Then she says I was responsible for her losing the only friend she had left (the OM?).
W says that she has nobody to talk to and nothing to do because of me.

W says I scared OM's W half to death because OM's W felt like I was a stalker.

This is manipulative damage control. It's not a problem because you aren't running around town talking to anyone else but she wants to box you and make sure you don't do anything more. She also doesn't want you taking to OM's wife again so the stalker comment is either made up OR it's part of OM's spin to his wife. I would include this fact in the list of facts you give OM's wife by voice mail (probably wait a couple days so you can add more facts but keep the list handy in case she calls you) along with an indication that are fully aware that this is most likely a lie but if there is any truth to it...please do not hesitate to tell me to bug off. I am not a stalker and not whatever they might be telling you I am. I merely informed you about your husband because I thought it was the decent thing to do. My wife moved out and none of our friends are talking to her because she thinks she's in love with your husband. I know you'd rather believe your husband, whom you love, than some stranger but I am not a liar.

W then says I was a crappy husband. I agree to this. Then W says that I've only gotten worse.

Water off a ducks back. Validate and just keep listening

W then refers to this date again with another OM. And W says that there is not a chance we could ever get back together.

I thought about this last night and wondered if possibly another doctor became aware that your wife was "in play"....meaning OM passed the rumor around that your wife is willing to fall for the powerful Doctor routine and sleep her way up the corporate ladder. There could be some other doctor but this is MOST LIKLEY a fabrication designed to hurt you and throw you (and OM's wife) off the scent of her/their affair. Subterfuge, but speculation is a waste of time and headspace. Water off a ducks back

I then tell W that I need to go and will see her in the AM when I pick up S1. I disconnect the call.
---
W then proceeds to text me...

"The most ironic thing is that you, Mr. Logical, wanted to "protect his family and his kids"...how noble...the only thing you've done is harm them by hurting me, spreading rumors, and acting like a crazy person.

I showed so much restraint with tarnishing your name but you just couldn't hold back. What a crappy thing to do. You are not a good person. I don't know who you are.

So please do me a favor, don't talk any more about me to ANYONE. Stop stalking people and acting crazy. I just want to raise the kids the best we can and get this divorce finalized so I can put you in the past.

Is that within your comprehension?"

Yikes! I didn't reply and don't plan to.

She's hurt. Telling OM's wife has KILLED the affair. The "stalking and crazy" comment again tips me off that she and OM are spinning this to her bosses and the OM's wife. They are probably indeed painting you as the controlling stalking crazy jealous husband who she separated from awhile ago who is making up an affair with OM who was just being a supportive friend. They probably claim the "proof" you showed her was fabricated.

This is the kind of text that IF she ever becomes a FORMER wayward wife she will cringe to read or talk about. Calling YOU a bad person she doesn't recognize anymore is just so ironic you sometimes can't help but chuckle and roll your eyes at it. You don't deserve this Defacto. She's out of her mind due to the stress of OM's wife finding out the truth about her life that she's lashing out and desperately trying to put you and the affair back into the secret little box. She's pathetic right now and someone only a husband that promised to "love her in sickness and health, in good times and bad" could possible love at all. God bless you for even considering trying to work this out. You deserve better, but this is your life and I guarantee that YOU are going to make it. I hope we can help you save her in the process

[/quote]

[Defacto]

Journaling:
So, W called me 5 times since last "conversation." I was at a baseball game so I let it go to voicemail. W calls again when I got home, thought maybe I could talk to kids around bedtime so I decide to answer.

W asks why I didn't answer her calls and that she has stopped by the house and I wasn't there. Told W I went out. W asked where. I told her I went to a baseball game.

W then hands phone to D4 for a second to say hi. When W takes phone, she asks me if I showed a picture of W to OM's W. I told W that I only showed OM's W the picture from the texts I discovered back in January. Apparently, OM's W knows about my W's cosmetic surgery and is trying to figure out how OM's W found out. (Obviously things are still brewing at OM's house)


Then W asks me again if I have anymore big surprises planned. I tell W that I don't but I tell W that she doesn't control what I do. Then W launches into why she just doesn't know why I did what I did. I tell W that I told OM's W because it was the moral thing to do. W then started comparing what I did to jihad.
She then launches into how I've ruined her life. I respond by saying that she needs to understand that her decisions had something to do with it too. W responds that she will do that when I do that too for my decisions.
(It was like she proofread Mrbond's message!)

W says that we were separated and I told her we could date other people. (This is funny because she's now changed the timeline of our separation to starting before the A was discovered. And, I never agreed to dating other people during separation. I only agreed for the separation to be on a trial basis and that we would NOT date other people. It wouldn't be worth it to remind her of these errors however.)

W then says she has shown so much restraint not telling others about the things I've done. And that W wouldn't want our kids to find out and look at me differently. I'm not sure how to respond so I essentially ignore this comment. (W has made numerous unfounded comments about me and has threatened to slander me and pursue full custody)

The. W asks if she has to worry about me with the kids. W says that a person close to me has concerns about my state of mind around the kids.

I tell W that the insinuation is ludicrous and she knows the answer to that.

I changed the conversation again to my excitement for spending time with S1 tomorrow. I thank W for remaining calm during conversation. I then tell W I will see her in the morning when I pick up S1 and to have a good night.

[MrBond]

You let it go too far again. When she starts to blameshift again, look her straight in the eyes and tell her that you will not be controlled by her and that if she continues to blame you for everything, you are walking away.

Remember. Shut her down before her rant. Or if you find yourself not being able to stop her, after her rant, just chuckle, shake your head and walk away. She'll start yelling back at you but just walk it off. Think of her as one of those crazy people you might see walking on a street spewing nonsense. You don't pay them any attention right? That's how you should see your W.

If she threatens to tell your friends the things that you've done, again, look her in the eyes, shrug your shoulders and tell her to go ahead because you have nothing to hide.

Confidence.

[Defacto]

Good morning all! I woke up early, went for a quick jog, and enjoyed a relaxing morning.

Mrbond, thanks for your advice. I will actively apply this strategy going forward.

I just picked up S1 at my W's parents house. I was cordial and upbeat and kept the conversation only about the kids. W was pretty mellow even a little somber but calm and relaxed.

W was overly affectionate towards S1 before we left. I was positive and upbeat the whole time and wished W a good day.

One quick note: I had to get something out of my W's car when I noticed that a book of mine that I assumed W had taken and lent to OM was now sitting in the back of W's car.

Have a great day today! I will truly cherish the time I have with my S1 today.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

You let it go too far again. When she starts to blameshift again, look her straight in the eyes and tell her that you will not be controlled by her and that if she continues to blame you for everything, you are walking away.

Remember. Shut her down before her rant. Or if you find yourself not being able to stop her, after her rant, just chuckle, shake your head and walk away. She'll start yelling back at you but just walk it off. Think of her as one of those crazy people you might see walking on a street spewing nonsense. You don't pay them any attention right? That's how you should see your W.

If she threatens to tell your friends the things that you've done, again, look her in the eyes, shrug your shoulders and tell her to go ahead because you have nothing to hide.

Confidence.

This kind of debating with a wayward is completely unproductive. It's antagonistic. You can't teach them and logic escapes them. Further, the logic of this argument completely contradicts the entire basis of why you are upset. Is she can't control you, to some extent, as your wife, they you can't control her and she can sleep with and date anyone she wants....right?

Defacto....please use discernment when applying any advice you receive on the internet. Michelle Davis is the expert on this forum. Not me. Not Mr. Bond. We are just your peers who have some insight having gone through this before you but also the bias of having only one experience.

My own perspective tells me that you should just listen to her rant and then listen some more. Instead of interjecting your conflicting opinion ("you don't control me") you ask questions like ("are you trying to control me?") and then LISTENING then maybe another question ("how come you can telll me who I can talk to but I can't tell you who you can sext with")...then LISTEN, then another question ("haven't you been telling OM stuff about me for the past year?). You aren't going to win arguments at this point so maybe you can plant some seeds of logic that will grow later on.

But that's just my opinion. Let's take a look at what the professional say: go back to Sandi's 180 list gleaned mostly from Ms. Davis's book:

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight..

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

[MrBond]

"This kind of debating with a wayward is completely unproductive. It's antagonistic."

Actually it's not. You're not yelling or being mad or nasty or angry or cold. It's pure confidence. You're not telling her what to do. You are stating it as a matter of fact.

In fact, that swagger and confidence is what got the OM your W. You are just establishing your boundary and it shows your WAS that you're on the path to walking away.

I don't know about Georgia Bulldog's story but doing this put me on the path to saving my M and many others.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Confidence and swagger are much better demonstrated by ACTIONS (such as telling the OM's wife and GAL'ing) versus somehow "calmly" "shutting her down" and "looking her in the eye and saying you don't control me" in a nice fashion. She's still completely wayward and doesn't give a crap about logic, reason or fairness. It's all about her (and OM).

Besides. A boundary is NOT "you don't control me". Defacto's boundary is simply not being controlled by his wayward wife and doing what he rationally and confidently FEELS is right for his situation, his wife and his family. She can SAY whatever she wants. You can't control what she thinks or says and her words don't actually have the power to control you. IF they did and she was able to manipulate Defacto with her controlling language into NOT actually speaking with anyone else....THAT would be wimpy and non-attractive.

I think Defacto's doing a pretty good job of avoiding the bait and taking a stand for himself here and there without being antagonistic.

W then says she has shown so much restraint not telling others about the things I've done. And that W wouldn't want our kids to find out and look at me differently. I'm not sure how to respond so I essentially ignore this comment. (W has made numerous unfounded comments about me and has threatened to slander me and pursue full custody)

The. W asks if she has to worry about me with the kids. W says that a person close to me has concerns about my state of mind around the kids.

What "things have you done"? Can you think of anything she may want to tell others you've done?

I don't know what state you are in but you want to research whether your state is a one party or two party consent state for recording conversations. This will determine only whether you tell your attorney about it and can admit it into evidence because regardless, you should be recording your phone calls with her using an app or some kind and carrying around a voice activated recording device or maybe even a MP3 Watch that records conversations. She continues to threaten and insinuate things that make me suspicious that you are being set up for a custody fight. More likely than not it's just part of her manipulation game and lingering exposure anger but having a recording of her THREATENING you with "I'm going to take your kids away from you if you don't stop talking to OM's wife" would be custody battle gold should it ever come to that. Judges don't like parental alienators much but if you don't have a recording of it....it never happened. Protect your backside.

What is your custody arrangement now.....50/50? Absent a court order it can be whatever the two of you agree upon and where the children sleep is what determines child support later on. Spending all day with your D1 doesn't count unless she spends the night too.