W just called from work like she normally does to check on the kids. I was cordial and upbeat on the phone and kept the conversation about the kids or how work was going.
Near the end of the call, W said that she wants to schedule a discussion/dinner to talk about things. She said that she knows I'm doing good but it is hard for her right now. W said that she loves me so much and just wants to be fair when dividing things up. W also stated that it would be good just to talk.
I told W that it shouldn't be a problem and I would have to look at my schedule to see what night would work. --- W has had passing discussions with me about how she doesn't want to get a L involved if we were to get a D. I have spoken to a L in the past but it was only a consultation. I have never initiated the conversation about D but I also haven't been scared off by W if she brought it up. I have said things like, "I don't want a D but that looks like where we are headed..."
Our most recent conversation to this point was simply about sorting out the finances.
I wonder if W has mistaken my detachment during this period as my complicity in wanting a D?
Should I delay this discussion? How should I respond if she wants to talk about specifics regarding a D? What should be my approach from a LRT perspective?
Oh, and just to update a question from my previous journaling, W has most definitely not broken off contact with OM. It probably makes sense to delay any discussion with OM's wife until after this sit down conversation with my W, right?
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
This is where I think some people get the 180 wrong. Sandi is just a poster that came up with a list of 180 type behavior and wrote down a list. It was not written that way by MWD. In my opinion, and I think this is common in a lot of wayward wife situations, is the wayward wife felt neglected and thinks her husband doesn't truly care about her. My wife actually justified her affair thinking that I probably wouldn't care at all. My 180 plan included, thusly, BEING EMOTIONAL. Now, that doesn't mean running around crying and begging them to come back or buying them a bunch of gifts or trying to romance a wayward wife. You DO still have to detach and not be a wimpy little basket case....that being said....you can be honest...in a calm fashion about YOUR feelings from time to time when she is definitely listening and, herself, begging you to show some emotion.
Your wife is lost and miserable. She has romantic feelings for an OM but remaining love for you and the family. Why push her away completely and act completely happy about a situation where you honestly are miserable???
So let's see if I can help you out with some analysis of your recent conversation:
This, below, is GOOD. Listening to her. Meeting her need for conversation and like your coach said: Let her carry on talking a bit:
Originally Posted By: defacto
"Then W said that there are times she thinks she's making a big mistake but then, there are times she feels "in her gut" that it would never work out between us. I respond by validating her feelings but I tell her I don't agree with everything she said"
.
But then your wife made this statement:
Originally Posted By: defacto
"Then W stated that my lack of emotion and my newfound happiness just go to further validate that it would never work out between us. W then says that our lives are just on different trajectories".
I think this might have been an opportunity to give her a little Mr. Bond truth dart while calmly and in a detached manner stating something like:
"Listen, honey, saying I lack emotion is about the furthest thing from the truth these last few months. I know you are pretty wrapped up in what's going on in your head lately but please be aware that I have been absolutely devastated by your affair. I am hurt and remain hurting. I am struggling to eat, to sleep and to work. If I seem "happy" it's merely me attempting to get on with my life because I am confident that at the end of this nightmare that I am going to be OK. I worry about you, honey, but I can't fix this for you and I can't control you. You've got a lot of tough decisions to make and as much as I think you are messing up, I also love and respect you enough to maintain hope that you are mature and smart enough to figure this out."
My [joking] alternate response: "I'd rather seem emotionless than behave heartless"
It just seems to me sometime that when you ACT too detached, emotionless and happy, you merely feed a wayward spouse rationalizations and justifications for having and continuing their affair in the first place. Plus pretending could actually be considered game playing and/or trying to manipulate an outcome. Be you. Be a man that isn't afraid to honestly share YOUR feelings because you matter too. Just don't be a crying desperate wimp about it. Either be (or fake it until you make it) confidence KNOWING INTERNALLY that your wife is making a huge mistake and OM is a complete loser that pursues and dates married woman. He's a dead end street.
That's my idea of a 180...opposite of what you did before.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
W just called from work like she normally does to check on the kids. I was cordial and upbeat on the phone and kept the conversation about the kids or how work was going.
Near the end of the call, W said that she wants to schedule a discussion/dinner to talk about things. She said that she knows I'm doing good but it is hard for her right now. W said that she loves me so much and just wants to be fair when dividing things up. W also stated that it would be good just to talk.
I told W that it shouldn't be a problem and I would have to look at my schedule to see what night would work. --- W has had passing discussions with me about how she doesn't want to get a L involved if we were to get a D. I have spoken to a L in the past but it was only a consultation. I have never initiated the conversation about D but I also haven't been scared off by W if she brought it up. I have said things like, "I don't want a D but that looks like where we are headed..."
Our most recent conversation to this point was simply about sorting out the finances.
I wonder if W has mistaken my detachment during this period as my complicity in wanting a D?
Should I delay this discussion? How should I respond if she wants to talk about specifics regarding a D? What should be my approach from a LRT perspective?
Oh, and just to update a question from my previous journaling, W has most definitely not broken off contact with OM. It probably makes sense to delay any discussion with OM's wife until after this sit down conversation with my W, right?
Please don't miss my prior post. I'm still a newbie on DB.
Personally, I wouldn't discuss divorce with her at all. I'd just say:
"At this time....I don't want a divorce so if you do, then you pursue it all on your own. I'll hire my own attorney and he/she can discuss divorce with you or your attorney. I will not be a complicit participant in the destruction of OUR family"
As MWD teaches us. Affairs end in time. The less you participate in and delay any divorce the more likely your wife will:
1. end her affair 2. observe your changes 3. Come home
Pursuing and helping plan a divorce is more likely to result in a divorce.
Reserve the right to change your mind later (I edited to add "At this time"). There may come a day you are ready and willing to divorce her all by yourself.
An added bonus. Wayward wives have trouble running to the bank and going to the grocery store in the same day. They are fixated and monopolized by watching their phones and laptops for the next twitter, instant message and email joke. Throwing the entire divorce thing in their lap is a HUGE undertaking that they just can't handle along with maintaining their adulterous relationship. Your wife wants more than just your consent. She wants you to make it easy and quick for her. She wants YOU to handle the details. Don't. Just say "no, not interested", then distract with something off-topic like "how about those Braves".
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Oh, and just to update a question from my previous journaling, W has most definitely not broken off contact with OM. It probably makes sense to delay any discussion with OM's wife until after this sit down conversation with my W, right?
No. Now, it appears you're just conflict avoiding.
Everyday you wait is another day OM's wife is most likely living in a lie.
It's like a band-aid. Just do it.
Besides.. This conversation isn't REALLY a conversation. Your wife (and OM) have an agenda. Your feelings, your best interests, your sanity are NOT on their agenda.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Should I delay this discussion? How should I respond if she wants to talk about specifics regarding a D? What should be my approach from a LRT perspective?
I would not try to delay it. Approach it as a business transaction.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Ok, keep me in your prayers today. I plan on calling OM's wife to fill her in on the A.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Well, I did it. I called the OM's W. She was shocked and was in disbelief. She immediately want to meet to ensure I didn't make a mistake.
So I met OM's W at Panera and I showed her my proof of the A. She literally had no idea what was going on. It felt good to do the right thing!
I was able to console her a bit and we exchanged a bit of info/intel. She was obviously pretty shaken up.
I told OM's W that my goal is for the A to end and for both of us to save our families. She agreed.
She wasn't sure how she was going to handle but I just cautioned her to try to think things through and keep me updated. She agreed.
It sounds like OM's W will play it that she found out about the A from a friend of hers at the hospital. I told her that's fine but she doesn't have to protect me. OM's wife did ask me not say anything about our meeting to my W.
So, I am bunkering down and preparing for the pending hurricane. Wish me luck!
If W asks me if I told OM's W about the affair, how should I respond?
Oh, and thanks for the encouragement guys, especially GB! It feels great to do something proactive for a change.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
So, I am bunkering down and preparing for the pending hurricane. Wish me luck!
If W asks me if I told OM's W about the affair, how should I respond?
Oh, and thanks for the encouragement guys, especially GB! It feels great to do something proactive for a change.
Luck.
Understand that once your wife finds out (and she probably will soon) you will likely curse my name and wonder what in the heck you were thinking talking to OM's wife. You may come to FEEL like you regret this. That's just a feeling. It's not the truth. Trust that in the end, no matter how this turns out, you will be proud of yourself for doing the right thing.
Other times the affair partners go silent and don't even talk about it even between themselves. They will just pretend it doesn't effect them and ignore it as long as everyone leaves them alone.
Other times, but not that often, the OM's wife takes a month to actually accumulate her own independent evidence, compile her case and get her ducks in a row, financially and legally, before she confronts her wayward husband.
It's not bad if the affair partners think there is a spy at the hospital informing on them but even if that is what they are told, I'm sure your wife will be confronting you to see if you were the one that did it. Personally I denied involvement in exposing my wife's affair for over a year into recovery but many others feel that just owning it proudly is the way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if you wife confronts you as if they know and hope it's just you and hope you'll confess and they then don't have to sweat an informant at the hospital It's your choice whether you want to go the honest route or not. In my opinion, you are in a battle for your family and deception is a part of the Art of War. Spiritual warfare doesn't require you reveal all battle plans and methods to your enemy. They certainly aren't playing fair and you are trying to protect and save your wife. But either way...you can figure it out what is best for you. It's probably tougher for you to withhold the truth because you won't always know what OM's wife is up to or saying.
Then there is another issue with being honest.
Should you apologize for it?
Yes - An insincere apology doesn't really take much energy or effect much because the exposure has already happened so you can't really take it back so saying "Oh, my bad. I presumed she already knew and/or thought it only fair that OM's wife knew. Maybe I shouldn't have done that, I'm sorry"
No - Don't apologize for doing the right thing. Standing up for yourself and your actions unapologetically is attractive male behavior. OM's wife had a right to know and you told even if it meant angering your wife. You are not afraid of conflict and you had no intention of keeping their secret or being a co-conspirator in their affair with regards to OM's wife. She'd do the exact same thing if you were having an affair because it's the decent thing to do. Besides if OM genuinely has good intentions with your wife, then you did them a favor and he can now go about divorcing his wife to be with your wife. She should be pleased you've moved things along for her and OM.
BTW....probably 50-75% of the time an OM gets exposed to his spouse he dumps his side piece affair partner like a rock. He had no intention of divorcing his wife let alone getting caught. Your wife has just become too complicated a relationship to continue with. He didn't realize until today that he was gambling his family AND future income. Your wife's feelings just took second place to his desperation to save his family.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
