Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,686
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,686
Hi Defacto,

You need to set boundaries and I think that's the direction you were going in.

I hope you have a wonderful time with your S1.

Hang in there!

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14
Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
"versus somehow "calmly" "shutting her down" and "looking her in the eye and saying you don't control me" in a nice fashion. "

GB, Again, I don't know your story and how or if you saved your M, but in the time I've been here I haven't seen an instance where this hurt a situation.

"I think Defacto's doing a pretty good job of avoiding the bait and taking a stand for himself here and there without being antagonistic. "

Again, you get the feeling that what I stated was antagonistic. It wasn't. In fact, if he had allowed his W to call the shots and berate him at every opportunity, and the situation doesn't get better, it's time to do something different.

DeFacto, have you seen the list of the people who have saved their M's? The situation only started turning around after the LBS started to not care about what the WAS thought about.

Time to get your b@ll$ back buddy.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 110
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 110
Yup, they know if you're balls are gone. They have a sixth sense. Boundaries are laughed at unless you balls. She'll know you've been reading self help books while she's been boning the OM.

You have to be like Swazye in Roadhouse, this is a time not to be nice.

I was nice. Three times I was nice. Three times too many.

Today, I put STBX's clothes, jewelry, etc. on the front porch in black trash bags. I'll put them back inside with a court order.

Boundaries a joke if you don't enforce them. Anything you say they laugh at. They fired you and don't respect you. You don't need their respect, you need them out of your life. You don't let your friends crap all over you.

It [censored], you loved this person once. You may still. Just don't assume they give a flying eff about you because they don't. She may say she cares for you, loves you, but she doesn't. Stop listening, stop talking, protect yourself with action. Remove the threat.


M:42 W:43
T:14 M:10
S:9 D:5
W filed 12/22/14
EA 12/31/14
PA 4/10/15
D final 5/13/15
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
D
Defacto Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
Good stuff guys! I appreciate the spirited conversation and true concern for my sitch. It gives me a lot of ways to prepare for the next one of W's outbreaks.

Most importantly, just got the kids to bed. Had a brilliant day with S1! So thankful for these kids being in my life. I picked up D4 at 5pm and finished off the night well. However, D4 is acting out a bit and really misses W when D4 is with me.

As far as W is concerned, there were no outbreaks. W called or texted a few times about the kids. I was positive, happy, and enthusiastic and kept all phone or in person correspondence about the kids.

"What "things have you done"? Can you think of anything she may want to tell others you've done?"

GB, whenever W has flipped out at me, she makes unfounded allegations about me and threatens to either use it against me for child custody or to pay me back for the friends she lost. I talked to my L about it and besides it not being true, the allegations don't hold any water. Plus, it's pretty telling that these allegations were never brought up until after the A was discovered.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 449
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 449
Any news from OM's wife?

What's your current temporary custody arrangement?

Why have her parents taken in their wayward daughter? I ask this one because I wouldn't take in my daughter in the same situation. I'd send her home to her husband (who I gave her to on their wedding day) and tell her to work it out with him, dump her OM and quit her job at the hospital. I'd also probably make my own visit upon OM telling him to get away from my family and hurting my grandchildren. I'd 100% support my son-in-law after accessing the real facts of the situation to the best of my ability (hopefully discerning what is real and what are wayward lies in the process). Why are her parents enabling her??


The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
D
Defacto Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
K
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Any news from OM's wife?

What's your current temporary custody arrangement?

Why have her parents taken in their wayward daughter? I ask this one because I wouldn't take in my daughter in the same situation. I'd send her home to her husband (who I gave her to on their wedding day) and tell her to work it out with him, dump her OM and quit her job at the hospital. I'd also probably make my own visit upon OM telling him to get away from my family and hurting my grandchildren. I'd 100% support my son-in-law after accessing the real facts of the situation to the best of my ability (hopefully discerning what is real and what are wayward lies in the process). Why are her parents enabling her??


Nothing from OM's W.

Custody is pretty seamless right now. I have the kids on the weekend if W works. Additionally, I will take the kids overnight during the week if W has to work. W's mom will help with the kids during the week. W has the kids on her days off.

W told her mom about A as soon as I discovered it. What W has told her mom since is anybody's guess, probably not much and probably all negative towards me. I do know her mom was encouraging W to get an attorney.

I'm not exactly sure why her parents are enabling her but I'm sure it is a combination of how W is spinning the facts and their laissez-faire attitude towards parenting. Their other daughter has already had two D's.


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
D
Defacto Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
Journaling:
W finished her work shift this morning and brought breakfast by for the kids and I. I was cordial with W and thanked her for breakfast. W didn't come into house and took just enough time to hug kids before she left.

Then W called about two hours later while I was at the zoo to see how the kids were doing. She then asked me if I received her L's paperwork via email. I told her that I hadn't looked at it yet. W asked if we could grab a coffee to go over paperwork, etc. I told W that I had no problem with that. (Of course, I will delay this as long as possible. Then, when I can't postpone any longer, I plan to ask to meet with her L but I have no intention of signing up with her L.)

Then W asked if I hired PI. I told her that I hadn't. (I don't know why W keeps asking this question. I guess she's just paranoid.)
I then tell W that I need to get back to the kids and I wish her a good day.

W calls two more times. The final call is while W is driving to work. She spends a few minutes talking to D4 and then W asks me while I'm being mean. W then asks about private investigator again lol. I reply to W that I've never hired a PI.

W then starts asking me about the D and her L. I tell W that I didn't have a chance to look at her email because I was with the kids all weekend. W asks me if I am going to let her D me. I reply that there is a lot to think about right now. W replies that she has wanted to D me for a long time.

I can tell W is frustrated because I am not just going along with her plans and signing up with her L and immediately agreeing to D.

I change the subject again and tell W that D4 wants to talk with her again.
I then wish W a good night at work.
----
Most importantly, had a wonderful day with kids! No matter what happens, these kids continue to inspire me to fight for them and this family!


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 930
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Any news from OM's wife?

What's your current temporary custody arrangement?

Why have her parents taken in their wayward daughter? I ask this one because I wouldn't take in my daughter in the same situation. I'd send her home to her husband (who I gave her to on their wedding day) and tell her to work it out with him, dump her OM and quit her job at the hospital. I'd also probably make my own visit upon OM telling him to get away from my family and hurting my grandchildren. I'd 100% support my son-in-law after accessing the real facts of the situation to the best of my ability (hopefully discerning what is real and what are wayward lies in the process). Why are her parents enabling her??


I can probably speak to this a bit from experience. My in-laws, particularly my FIL have been ultra supportive of me and the idea of my W and I working on our M. So much so that my W holds deep resentment towards her dad. He told her early on that when she married me, I became their son and family, so they were going to treat us as equals. Her dad and I spent countless hours on the phone and hundreds if not thousands of texts between us during all of this ordeal. All of this support and his has no idea of just how far his D strayed.

Now, all of that being said, she is their only child. When we S, we both went to live at our parents homes respectively. It was the beginning of summer, and we left our home town for the S. This was done to make the transition for the kids as seamless as possible. We were about 4 hours apart. Now when summer was over and the S was not going to end, we had to put the kids in school somewhere. Her parents helped support her moving down closer to where I am so the kids can go to school at the best ones. She does not have a job and on infrequent occasions she might help her aunt out a bit for some cash. Her parents are covering her expenses because as her dad told me, she is our daughter and we have to help. Enabling? Sure. It has kept her from getting a job and learning to support herself.

I always knew that no matter how much her parents supported us working on the marriage and how supportive they have been towards me, blood is thicker than water. They will always side with their daughter. She has them believing a very elaborate lie right now. All of this will come out during our divorce trial and they will get to see just what their D has been up to. Do I expect them to cut her off afterwards? Of course not. Family is family, and I can respect any parent sticking by their child no matter how much I disagree with their choices.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 449
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 449
Originally Posted By: Defacto
. W then asks about private investigator again lol. I reply to W that I've never hired a PI.


My wife and I discussed this and guess that this likely has much more to do with OM than your wife. She's already rationalized and justified that she can date and do whatever she wants so the only person a PI would really matter to is OM. OM has probably successfully convinced his wife that you're a jealous nutso and explained away the "proof" you showed her but OM needs to make sure there isn't more proof out there.

If you don't have anything more....even a recording of a conversation with your wife (if you are in a one party consent state it's legal to secretly record any conversation you want) wherein she discusses "the nature of her relationship with OM" would help.

In most cases, convincing OM's wife wouldn't be an imperative. You gave her the info and put her on notice fulfilling your community moral obligation. If she doesn't believe you and allows herself to be deceived that's on her. Chances are even if she's fooled briefly, she IS aware and likely watching OM very closely. However, in this situation. They still work together and if OM's wife is convinced she may make her husband quit the hospital and take his medical degree to any other hospital in the world.

If given the chance and/or on your next contact with her try to offer her up any more proof that you have BEFORE she even questions the proof you've already provided her.

Oh, and next time you are asked about a PI instead of saying "No". Just say something like, "when you are prepared to be a hundred percent honest with me, I'll be a hundred percent honest with you". You are playing poker with a liar and a cheat. She can repent and become a good person again. There is hope for her yet, but while she's like this you should be holding all your cards close to your chest. Other alternate answers:

1. "I wish would we could both be 100% honest with each other but I can't trust you right now"

2. "you are asking me questions I can't answer right now"

3. "have you hired a PI to watch OM? maybe he has other girlfriends or maybe they've been following him".

4. "All I'll say is I haven't PAID anyone to track OM"

5. "Why would I hire a PI, I've got lots of friends in this town, anonymous tipsters and friends of friends even in that hospital"

Leave her (and OM) guessing and in a panic. It's really hard to carry on an affair when you are constantly paranoid about who might be watching or following you.

Finally. Your informal custody arrangement should be a set schedule. If it's 3 days a week, then make it a set days and nights every week. I know that seems hard but make it happen. I like suggesting a betrayed husband try to set a schedule of 2, 3, 3, 2, 3, 3, 2 or 3, 3, 3, 3, 3. That way the days you get the kids changes every week and you each get some weekends free and other weekends with the children. Also, your work schedule is probably fixed hours whereas her hospital hours fluctuate which means you'll get opportunities to parent the children on nights she works and has custody too while ALWAYS being there for your kids on your days/nights. Her parents should be second in line behind you to cover hours, days and nights that your wife is unavailable (a "first right of refusal"). I know this might sound overwhelming but it sounds like right now your wife could claim she has full custody of the kids 100% and she gratuitously lets you visit them from time to time or even for a night here and there. Your current informal agreement could become the permanent custody agreement if you don't assert yourself a bit here.

I even wonder if you shouldn't consider going a little further with the collaborative divorce using one attorney just to the point of agreeing to a formal temporary custody agreement pending the final divorce decree BEFORE blowing up the divorce process and getting your attorney. She's in a hurry and her priority is getting it done quick. She might give in and be somewhat "fair" to reward you but if you blow the divorce process up and delay her she has already threatened to punish you. But please don't rely on me for legal advice. Talk to a lawyer in your state. Nothing stopping you from secretly meeting with an attorney to discuss this whole process and whether you should go along with this collaborative process for a bit. I'm still really worried you are being set up to be an every other weekend dad and with your wayward wife as the primary custodial parent. You may think that'll be fine because she's always been the better more involved parent (while you were off bread winning) but divorced unrepentant spouses make horrible parents and you'll be paying maximum child support to a woman who will be neglecting your children in favor of a selfish lifestyle and a revolving door of sketchy men entering her home. Your children need you to step up and protect them in case this whole recovery effort goes south. You need to be ready and able to be a 50-50 parent.

Is it safe for Defacto to tell us what state he resides in on this open forum??????


The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
D
Defacto Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 569
Pilot, thanks for sharing your story. I believe your situation is somewhat similar to what I'm experiencing right now. W's mom encouraged MC out of the gate. W's parents even survived a bout of infidelity themselves. I just think they are standing behind their daughter right now. I'm sure with W living there, they've seen the mood swings up close.
But, they are being fed a one sided story with key facts omitted.

GB, I think you're right about PI. I did mention a specific outing that W and OM had together to OM's W. W could be wondering how I knew about this (mindreading, I know). W actually wrote it in her planner. W also marked OM's birthday in planner with hearts around it. I took pictures of both.

Two pieces of circumstantial evidence that could point to downward spiral of A:
-the previously mentioned returned book that I believe W gave to OM
-based on phone records, W always talked with OM on the way to work. However, the past two nights, this is the time W has decided to call to check on kids. (I know, this evidence is fairly weak)


I will think some more about custody arrangement. It has worked out fine thus far. Actually, the current arrangement even favors me a bit due to the nuances of W working overnight. However, I would fight for a structured arrangement of this ends up in a D.

I don't see my W making any changes in her living arrangement right now mainly due to financial reasons. W has no independent savings and all the marital investments are in my name. This is probably another reason why W wants a quick D. Unless her parents loan her money, she won't be able to get her own place until she's able to save up some money.

In regards to the kids, I definitely want joint custody and 99% of the time, it's what W says she wants too.

In regards to her L and pending threat of D, I have no problem agreeing to meet with W's L or with W to discuss paperwork at this time. But I won't agree to anything. It could be helpful, like was mentioned, to see what W is seeking.

Have a great week everybody!


Me:35 W:30
D:4 S:1
Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA
In House Separation: 01/14/15
W moves out: 04/05/15
I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15
W serves D papers: 06/19/15
Mediation: 09/16/15
D final: 12/01/15
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard