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Good thinking with all of the above Alpha. You are on the right track and doing really well. Sell the tickets to fund a lovely birthday plan for you! And don't dither hoping your W may ask about your B'day. Just make your plans and go for it!

Hmm, rainy day activities with those lovely kids....swimming, baking, bowling, crafts, movie, indoor play centre, coffee and a magazine, umbrellas walk...

Hope you enjoy yourselves, whatever you end up doing.... smile


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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alpha99 Offline OP
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Thanks toots for the advice. I think I will go out somewhere myself during the day time of my birthday and maybe arrange a family meal for the evening time. There's still a few weeks to fine tune plans. I won't involve W in them. If she pipes up about doing something then I'll consider that if/when it happens.

A quick exchange of the children today - literally a minute or so at the door. Pleasant enough just not much said. Kids are excited about the grand national. They asked me to phone W to see what horse she had picked.

I let the kids speak to W on phone, spoke for a moment, then said bye.

A few minutes later W called back with the names of some other horses she has picked. A 5 minute pleasant conversation then ensued...mainly about betting. We made a connection over W liking to have a once a year flutter on the horse race.

W: you know me, it's pointless betting 'each way' when it's only once a year (Validated by me).

I mention this because it's the first sort of positive thing she has mentioned about our past together since BD. It does feel good to know we do have a long shared history and maybe she is realising slowly it wasn't all bad (I used to actually place our grand national bets but W used to get really involved, revved up and excited over it).

I've spent most of the morning with two excited kids explaining the ins and outs of horse racing. Weather has brightened up somewhat so going to take the kids to a local dam and have a nice walk around in the sun, making sure we're back in time for the gee gees!

I woke up this morning and later on realised that my first thoughts weren't about W or checking this board, but instead I was more serene. Maybe this was in part due to spending some of last night browsing a dating site. I haven't intended to date but just browsing and realising there's lots of other people about locally was interesting.

A problem I have is overanalysing every interaction with W. Seeing signs of improvement just makes me want jump right in and ask for everything I want. My patience is stopping me from doing that but oh man is it hard. I guess that's what self discipline is all about.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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alpha99 Offline OP
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Another busy day with the kids. I enjoy focusing on them. We are doing things we would never have done in the past just due to my lack of effort. Not that I'm lazy with my kids - far, far from it - more that in the past I would just hang around at home keeping the kids occupied with something and wait until W was around to all go out and do something together. Part of this was almost certainly my issue of low confidence in going out to places alone.

Now I'm out early morning in the park with them, taking them to places new and old, letting them explore their surroundings more when they're out, and giving them a little more freedom. I can just simply feel how much they love spending time with me. We tried to bring our children up to not be spoilt. They'd never had endless toys, computer games, gadgets and gizmos, didn't have a constant stream of sweets etc, and they never asked for anything. I prided myself on doing a good job in that regard. The sitch had changed that slightly recently but I feel them returning to how they've always been.

Our great day out today cost ABSOLUTELY NOTHING except petrol in the car. The kids had a great time with pre homemade snacks for our trip. We fed ducks, walked around a dam, had running races, walked through winding paths, went to the park, played football, played mini bowling at home, watched some science stuff.

Not much to report really sitch wise. In our conversation earlier on today W said to call her in the afternoon to let her know how the kids got on with their bets on the grand national. I thought about it and decided I wasn't going to call her. I thought I'd seem too keen, even if I did just basically pass the phone over to the kids. She hasn't called anyway so I guess that was the right decision and I'm happy I never called. The children are in bed now. W on a night out tonight. I'm having thoughts of her meeting someone else. The good thing about that is I'm learning to roll with it. There's nothing I can do. I don't control her. If she meets someone else then that's her choice. I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't be bothered by it. It would hurt like hell. But what can I do?

Answer: Nothing.

Alternative answer: Be the best I can be FOR MYSELF and then maybe somewhere down the line she might see that and have a change of heart.

I read somewhere recently about pulling back/limiting availability and contact, but when there is contact to maximise it. I think that sums up my approach right now: LRT with emphasis on (in a casual manner) creating a positive connection each time we do interact.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
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Glad you had a good day with the kids Alpha - all sounding good....

Just to comment on your answer - being the best I can be for myself. I would just put a fullstop there and lose the bit about your W after that. If you are truly becoming the guy you want to be, further down the line, you may not even be that bothered about what your W is or isn't noticing.

Ultimately the changes truly need to be for you, not your W. Please don't do things in the hope of re-attraction. That is purely a by-product. If you change with the 'hope' of re-attracting, your W will sense that, and you are unlikely to attract her. But if she sees you becoming a fabulous person in your own right, and not focusing on what she may think - that is very attractive. And this is why it truly needs to be for you....

Last edited by Toots; 04/11/15 08:25 PM.

T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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alpha99 Offline OP
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Hi Toots,

I completely agree with your analysis. I did mean that W noticing my changes would be a by product of the changes happening anyway. I feel confident on that front the changes are for me because I'm doing them at times when W is not present and not able to see them.

Just even going out to social events alone is a big thing for me. It is enabling me to develop self confidence. I am going to a pub quiz sometime next week where there will be a team of people playing together - none of which I know. That is scary...but at the same time exciting. I am hopeful of making new friends and acquaintances.

So to summarise what I'm working on right now:

* Maintaining my new and improved appearance. I am wearing smart clothes every day. I am maintaining personal hygiene like never before, brushing teeth twice a day, using deodorant every day, shaving every few days etc. This is going really well.

* Developing confidence. To do this I am getting out more. I've been to an Italian Meetup group. I am going to a pub quiz this week. I have been out and about with the children alone quite a few times now. This is going really well. To put this into perspective, for the first year I had a car I never paid at the till when putting petrol into the car. I sent my W or whoever was with me. I never went to the chippy or the corner shop right on our doorstep for household goods - I sent W. I would basically avoid most things wherever possible that required interacting with people I don't already know. I wouldn't ask people for directions. I wouldn't take up hobbies or pursue job opportunities because I was too shy to do so. I am working on this still to make it all more natural but the self confidence I'm finding is making my life more fulfilling. I no longer feel so held back. The irony is that my W has always felt that nothing bothers me, that I'm uber confident. I can be around people I know or standing up to people when surrounded by people I know, but overall I'm a shy person.

* Following on from above, when I met my W I was quiet, considerate, shy, easy going, an excellent listener. As we got to know each other, after the honeymoon period of say two years maybe, I started to listen less, impose my own thoughts more, be less considerate to her, displayed a front of confidence to some degree. I can see how I've changed. I can see how I need to find that earlier version of myself whilst working on an appropriate level of confidence.

* Cutting out sarcasm. When I read or hear people saying they're sarcastic it is always a turn off. It sounds as if they're acknowledging their not a nice, positive person. Now, I like to think I'm a fun person. I've had people comment many times over the years about how funny I can be. Close friends acknowledge this often. My W does not. She doesn't get jokes. A lot of my humour is steeped in sarcasm. This is not a nice trait. I think I have distanced friends and my W over the years by being incredibly sarcastic - we're talking an awful, awful lot of the time. I am trying hard to cut this right, right back.

* Being positive. OK, this one does incorporate my W but I am trying to be positive a lot more. I've read how being positive attracts people, not just partners but people in general. Obviously being sarcastic means tending to have a negative slant on things. I am trying to reverse that. For example, instead of complaining about poor weather, I might come up with positive ideas for things to do inside. I am being positive around my W and trying to reconnect with her through positive connections.

* Being less judgmental. This doesn't require much explanation. I'm just working on accepting people for who they are wherever possible.

I know a few of these things include my W in them but these changes are for me. They do include things W has pointed out in a negative light about me but they are also things I have come up with myself after taking a look in the mirror. I know I am a kind, decent, loyal and loving person. I also know I'm a nasty, manipulative, sarcastic, inconsiderate, selfish, hurtful know it all so and so on occasions too. I just want to remove those negative traits of my personality as much as possible and be a better person.

------------------

So, as for today: I dropped the kids back at MIL's. It was a 10 second handover. Hi, bye, see ya. NC from W. None expected. Apart from calling her as per the kids' request over the horse racing yesterday, I haven't initiated contact in 2 weeks now. I am working this morning, followed by watching a big sporting event on TV this afternoon, and then maybe a trip to the gym afterwards before settling down to relax this evening.

W had asked about the house sale last week. She was going to arrange for someone to come out and value the house on Monday. Well, it's Sunday and there's been no mention of an appointment. 2-3 days ago she did ask if the house was clean, whether any stuff still needed to be moved before Monday. I don't know what's going to happen there. With work and having the kids I've yet to get to see a L. I will do this Monday.

EDIT: I forgot to add: The most pertinent thing for me at the moment is the internal struggle between knowing that pulling back is the best thing to do right now and missing W an awful lot and wanting to reach out to her. I know my head can overrule my heart here...but it is bloody hard at times!

Each sitch is different of course but does anyone with experience here have an idea of the average time needed before a sitch such as mine (A, separated, rejecting spouse) may start to turn positively? I read somewhere in an old thread Wonka suggesting generally (not exactly my kind of sitch) 1-2 years.

Would you concur with that?



Last edited by alpha99; 04/12/15 09:29 AM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 428
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Like you said, every sitch is different. It could be several months, two years, or never. That's why the focus is on you. My sitch swung back and forth like crazy in a relatively short period of time. When I had truly given up any hope was when it suddenly turned around in a matter of weeks and I was asked to move back home. There was plenty of rough time in regards to continued contact with OM and lies to follow though. Total time of my sitch was roughly 6-7 months if that helps.


separated since 9/01/13
M-31
W-36
D-4
Move back home 12/26/13
3 months of tough times
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Hey alpha

I to have browsed a dating site and it makes you realise there are loads of great women out there. The world does not start and end with your wife. If it doesn't work out with her you will find happiness with someone else. Your still plenty young and from your posts have a lot to offer

All in good time...


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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Thanks Indigo and Ontheup,

I understand that *should* W ever have a change of heart it will be so on her timetable. I understand each sitch is different and I shouldn't try and set out some sort of timescale. Having said that, since we hear about a script so often, and maybe a very general sequence of events that get followed, it is interesting to know what happens with other people in a general sense in terms of time taken to reconcile.

I am very much only browsing the dating site at this point, more as a distraction than anything else, but there are plenty of other women about of course. I do hope that ultimately I have no need to go down that route.

------------------------------------------------

W called me about 30 minutes ago. To begin with she said she only called to say thank you to me for dropping the kids off on time at MIL's this morning. I accepted the thanks, offered thanks for calling, and was about to say bye and hang up.

W then said something along the lines of 'I have something to ask you, it doesn't matter if you have something planned because it's last minute, but do you want to have the kids on Monday instead of Tuesday?' It turns out W is off work tues, wed, thurs and so wants to rejig our days with kids to suit herself. I said unless there's a special reason to change I'd rather leave things as they are. She was fine, no complaining. In fact, throughout the whole conversation she was very pleasant. I guess that was the real reason for calling. We then talked briefly about the horse racing yesterday, how S6 picked the winning horse for his grandad's bet but he is allowed to keep the winnings. I spoke to S6 briefly on the phone about it, W said his face lit up.

This is what I don't understand, in our limited interactions we are getting along better than we have in months - both being nice, both being polite, being considerate of each other, no arguing. I know there could be many reasons for that from her, both genuine and deceitful - but I find it frustrating all the same. I think I'm going need a whole lot of patience to get through this. Luckily, when I have to be, I can be incredibly patient.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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alpha99 Offline OP
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Having a quiet day today.

Had missed call about an hour ago from W, she left voicemail:

'Hiya Alpha, it's only me, I'm just ringing up to say would you be able to pick the kids up at my mum's tomorrow because my mum is having them tonight as I'm working the late. Err any time tomorrow, you did say 9am - 9.30am didn't you? Just let me know so I can tell me mum. OK, see ya, see ya.'

VM left in a very pleasant sounding matter. When I saw the VM I walked around the block to call her back. She was very pleasant sounding on the phone. There was some slight awkwardness as beyond reiterating what had already been said there wasn't a lot more to say.

I had thought beforehand about how I wanted the call to go - keep it short, to the point, try and find something to agree on. She was ending the conversation listing when she will see me again: 'So I'll see you tomorrow, oh no I won't, I'll see you Wednesday as kids will be with my mum tomorrow.'

At this point I briefly outlined plans for the kids tomorrow as a means to ask that they wear appropriate clothes for the weather as we'll be outside for a while. W took it slightly the wrong way saying that it won't be her getting them ready. I said I knew that but was just asking they be ready in appropriate clothes for our trip out. She said her mum always has them ready. I didn't argue, just acknowledged that to be the case.

It was only a very minor thing but it was a good reminder how fragile relations are right now and how if I'm trying to reconnect from a distance then constant care and attention must be paid when communicating.

EDIT: Oh I just wanted to add that although Monday as potential house valuation day, W made no mention of it.

Last edited by alpha99; 04/13/15 12:16 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 786
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Don't read into her actions..... Lots of reasons why she might not mention the house. Keep working on viewing her as a good mom, a wonderful person........ THIS change in how you see her and everyone around you is going to be a turning point in your life.

Good job on keeping your emotions in check lately! So proud of you...


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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