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Winhamn Offline OP
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I could use some advice on some of the wrinkles of my situation.

My wife and I have had a pretty rocky marriage. I feel like we’ve been on the brink of divorce for a long time.

3 years ago, she had an EA, I found a lot of self help stuff, did the 180, and really grew a lot as a person. The marriage went from me being on the doorstep of filing, to coming back together and being pretty darn good for a while.

I backslid on my emotional improvements, and we slowly grew apart again, and over the last few months I sank into depression and walled myself off, and obviously the marriage plummeted downhill.

A week ago, she sent me an email that said I’m done, I’m seeing a lawyer next week.

I was in a dark and isolated place, and my response was “oh no you don’t, I’m filing first!” and I immediately self filed for divorce. I handed her the papers and she didn’t have much of a reaction at all. Meanwhile, I felt like I was watching myself on TV (which is how I’ve felt about the last several months).

After I handed her the papers, I started to have a real breakdown. My eyes suddenly opened to how dysfunctional my behavior was and how my behavior over the last few months had been so self defeating. I’m a survivor of sexual abuse, and I started to see how my emotional reactions were so childish and really influenced by the pain and negative self image that takes its roots in the abuse. I felt incredibly alone.

Over the next 2 or 3 days, I expressed myself to her about a number of things, as well as had some legitimate releases and breakdowns from processing the abuse as well. She has been there for me in a way no one else has over the last several days in relation to the abuse. I’ve really opened up to her about a lot of things.

Then Monday or Tuesday (3 days ago) she sent me another email saying “I hate to say this because I don’t like seeing you in so much pain, but I plan to continue with the divorce process”. I ran home and again poured my heart out to her, making it clear I have some serious issues I need to work on and I want to do that within the confines of our marriage.

Her only reply is just that she has nothing for me right now. She is at peace with the divorce route. She is comfortable heading that direction.

She’s had some personal hardships lately, which I was not supportive of her about. She’s way low on sleep. She’s also spending a ton of time with her friends (her friend situation is something very similar to what is described on the DB website, she vents all her frustrations to them and they encourage her to just move on and make herself happy).

In some ways, it appears shes doing her own 180. She is on a totally different eating program, is working out a lot (as she has been the last couple years), going shopping, etc.

She makes eye contact with me (quite a lot of it really, maybe more than before). She initiates some degree of conversation. She has stopped cooking for me. Our interactions would largely appear normal from the outside, but of course there is a missing piece to them. She continues to ask logistical questions about the divorce (when do we tell kids, how are we going to handle financials, etc) which I talk to her about being as truthful and upbeat as possible.

While she continues to insist she is going through with the process, she has contacted lawyers but has failed to actually meet with one yet. As I said, I self filed hoping we could keep lawyers out of this, but since she is lawyering up I may have to as well.

While I familiar with much of the process from having used the 180 concept before, I have not yet read the book. I’m hoping it arrives today. I have shut down on asking relationship questions, I try to avoid initiating conversation but we have 3 kids under 8 years old so that’s sort of impossible, I’m trying to be active although I’m really hamstrung by having only a temporary restricted license due to a OWI arrest a few months ago.

A question she asked that I could use advice on – how long do I stay in the house? Purely from a DB perspective, is it more effective to be in the house (under the same roof separation) or out of the house?

Also, do I have a chance at a second 180 bringing her back, or do you think that makes it too hard for her to believe it could really be a permanent solution? Maybe that’s a stupid question, because the changes I want to make are for me. But I don’t want my marriage to end either.

My other question is more emotional. How in the world do you deal with the dichotomy of detaching, acting as if you are moving on, but constantly modify your behavior because what you really want to to reconcile?

That’s just killing me right now. I have this terrible tightness in my upper abs/lower chest right now. I have to let go, I have to face the reality that it’s over. But I also am fully committed to doing anything I can to make this work, and I know DB is the right way and the only chance I have.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Winhamn Offline OP
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Thanks.

The book is on the way. I hope it's here this weekend.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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180's are not a magic bullet that is going to be pressed and all will be restored back to the way it was.

Their are no tricks or magic buttons that you can press.

Reading through your thread I can see lots of things that you may need to change.
Drinking, depression, pursuing, controlling - to name a few.

The changes must be real, not just to try to win her back.

Are you up for the challenge?

Originally Posted By: Winhamn
how long do I stay in the house? Purely from a DB perspective, is it more effective to be in the house (under the same roof separation) or out of the house?

The basic advice here is do not move out of the house and do not move out of the MBR.
Let her do that.

Read the homework I gave you and report back with questions, hopefully some one will answer them.

Keep us posted.


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Originally Posted By: Winhamn

That’s just killing me right now. I have this terrible tightness in my upper abs/lower chest right now.


That was me for the first two months after BD. It gets better. Hopefully some of the seniors will be along to help you. And follow Cadet's advice.


life is too short....
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I have read some of the applicable threads cadet linked me to.

Sandi's 37 rules have been up on my pc for several days.

They help, a lot like a daily affirmation sort of thing.

This weekend is going to be really tough. I was feeling better this morning but all afternoon has been terrible.

If I could drive, it would be a lot easier to grab a kid or two and get out of the situation for a while.

UGH.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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Winhamn Offline OP
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I agree that I have some things to change. And I need to change them for me.

Right now, I'm in that place where I just so want this to end. I know you guys know what I mean. Just poof, not back to normal, but she is like "ok lets work on this".

It just hurts.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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Win,
Look at my sitch. you just described me to a T. don't move out, see a counselor. i know that sexual abuse makes it hard for you to connect and you are always waiting to be abandoned. but in that fear, you are always testing and pushing folks away to see if they will really stay. i know i did. seek help!! read my sitch and don't do what i did. best of luck.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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I read your initial post bravo61. I assume things never resolved? How are things for you now?


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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This weekend has been interesting.

Yesterday was pretty magically. With the kids all day, had a friend come over for a playdate in the evening. It was great.

Wife made lots of eye contact and nice conversation all day. Then off to overnight party with toxic friends. Comes home predictably cold and detached. I know I shouldn't care.

I went to church today. For the first time ever by myself. I go maybe once a year normally.

Church spoke to me like it never has before. It was a pretty powerful experience.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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I am having a lot of trouble with obsessing with thoughts about the divorce.

It's just all I think about.

I yearn so deeply for her to just say "let's try".

Part of the issue is that I feel so rejected and inadequate right now. I feel like such a failure.

One of the reasons yesterday was so good for me was that I had such great time with the kids and I really felt good about myself.

I'm still just venting.

Off to read Sandy's rules.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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Should I be initiating conversation with her?

I do for kids stuff. But not really other things.

I guess I'm not sure if showing interest is the right move. One of our issues was that we didn't connect well, so I'm not sure being disinterested is exactly the right move.

However, in her mind right now our entire marriage is negative and bad (ironically, in my mind right now everything was really positive...the truth is obviously somewhere in the middle) so I'm not sure trying to instigate any conversation is doing me any good.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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Originally Posted By: Winhamn
Should I be initiating conversation with her?

I do for kids stuff. But not really other things.

I guess I'm not sure if showing interest is the right move. One of our issues was that we didn't connect well, so I'm not sure being disinterested is exactly the right move.

However, in her mind right now our entire marriage is negative and bad (ironically, in my mind right now everything was really positive...the truth is obviously somewhere in the middle) so I'm not sure trying to instigate any conversation is doing me any good.

Hi Winhamn,

First, thank you for posting on my thread.

I do not think you should be initiating conversations with her. I have learned the hard way about the distancer /pursuer dynamic. My suggestion is to give her a little space right now.

Please hang in there. I'm sure one of the "veterans" on this board will offer some really good advice. Post often so we can keep up with your situation.

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
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Do not instigate any conversation unless it relates to your kids. Remember, your W does not want you to, she does not want to hear from you, and any attempt you try and make to "clarify" what you might see as errors in her recollection of your past will be met with fury and push her farther away. Sadly, there is nothing you can do or say at this moment which will do anything but hurt your R. The very best thing you can do is nothing. Leave her alone, give her the space. She is on a journey which does not include you. I know it is impossibly tough and extremely counter intuitive but this is what DBing is about.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
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Our interactions tonight were warm. It felt good.

Pilot, she initially put out the vibe very much that she does not want to see me and had no desire to talk to me.

A week later, things have softened and the vibe is warm(er). We have enjoyable, kid-centric interactions.

She is cooking for me, and is grocery shopping for me.

In fact, she's grocery shopping as we speak.

I'm not sure what to do when she gets home. Maybe I know the answer.

On one hand, I want to help her bring the groceries in. It could be a warm process. Plus I'll be eating some of that stuff.

On the other hand, I could make myself scarce. Which would be obviously not pursuing.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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Originally Posted By: pilot
any attempt you try and make to "clarify" what you might see as errors in her recollection of your past will be met with fury and push her farther away.


I do want to clarify that I do not talk about our relationship. The first couple days, actually the only time I talked about how we had good things, was Tuesday of last week when she told me she was continuing the divorce process.

That night, after the kids were in bed, I took anxiety meds and feel asleep. The next day I met with my IC, poured my heart out there, and she pointed me at DB, which as I said I was fairly familiar with the concepts, so I sort of snapped to.

It feels like there is a fine line between reminding her of how things were when they were good, and pursuing.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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Originally Posted By: pilot
I know it is impossibly tough and extremely counter intuitive


Just quoted for truth wink


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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While there is not much to go on regarding your story (your posting is only on its 2nd page) it is very hard to say anything with any certainty regarding your W and her intentions. That being said...

Your W up and announced she was done with you and was filing a D that week. Through email no less. What that tells me is she either is afraid to tell you in person because of how you will react or how she will react. Im going to assume you are not a violent person so lets just for the sake of discussion go with how she will react. It may very well be she does not want to see you hurt. And her softening up to you may be her way of trying to be nice about it, or worse, making her feel better about it. Bottom line is she has not backed off her decision, and likely will not any time soon. I did not see any mention of an A or OM in this picture, but experience here tells you (me included) just because you dont suspect it does not mean it is not there.

If your W is anything like the other WAS on this forum, and odds are she is, then she does not want your help, she does not want your affection, she basically does not want anything to do with you. And I know that can be a tough pill to swallow, especially as a guy because we are hard wired to fix things that are broken, and your M is broken. It is hard to sit back and do what feels so unnatural which is to back off, but believe me and every other person who has stood where you are now, backing off is by far the best course of action you can take. Do not mistake her kindness for reconciliation. She may even want to have sex at some point too. You are going to have to learn to just back off, and say no thank you to her. She will want to cake eat. Meaning she will want to know you are still there as a plan B in case her plan A does not work out how she had thought. She will feed you just enough bread crumbs to survive, but never thrive.

Best advice you can follow in the early stages when you are conflicted about what to do, take a moment and come to the board and post an urgent plea for guidance. Post the situation and what you are thinking about doing. You will find many who have already walked in your shoes quick to offer good and non emotionally driven advice. Then listen to them. People are here to help you and if you let them you will find yourself in a better place. And it will feel wrong at your core at times, but trust me, in a few months you will look back and think 'why did I not think of that myself'.

Good luck to you smile


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
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Originally Posted By: Winhamn
Originally Posted By: pilot
any attempt you try and make to "clarify" what you might see as errors in her recollection of your past will be met with fury and push her farther away.


I do want to clarify that I do not talk about our relationship. The first couple days, actually the only time I talked about how we had good things, was Tuesday of last week when she told me she was continuing the divorce process.

That night, after the kids were in bed, I took anxiety meds and feel asleep. The next day I met with my IC, poured my heart out there, and she pointed me at DB, which as I said I was fairly familiar with the concepts, so I sort of snapped to.

It feels like there is a fine line between reminding her of how things were when they were good, and pursuing.


This might make it a little relatable to you via my own experience. I got my BD out of the blue. Always thought I had the perfect M. Never even dreamed we had a problem. After BD she was super distant. Just like very other WAS here. At that time I was not so much into the begging/crying but I was definitely crowding. Fast forward a month with a few date nights and other attempts I was making at reconnecting, and an event happened which made me decide to tell her I was done with our M. No sooner than those words coming out of my mouth she got up sat in my lap and it was hugs all day long. For the next few months everything seemed great in our M. We were getting along, laughing, sex, basically like this was all behind us. Then I discover OM. In future discussions she admits that during that time I thought we were reconciling, she was never even considering giving our M any effort.

I tell you this not to discourage you, but to let you know that it is very easy for people in our situation to want to grasp at any good news and latch on to it. But make no mistake her mind is not on you and not on working on your M.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Thank you Pilot.

She's had a ONS PA before, which she readily admitted without me asking, and an EA before, where she gaslighted me, lied extensively, etc.

This does not have the same feel. I know everyone always says "oh not my wife..." but honestly I don't think this is an OM situation. Also, I've been down the digging for truth road and know it makes me crazy. At this point, I don't need that.

It's so weird at this point to be in the same room with her and have nothing but silence. Ack.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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Originally Posted By: pilot
Bottom line is she has not backed off her decision, and likely will not any time soon.


Ya know, I really need to try to keep this in mind....


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
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Chin up buddy. One thing I really did not grasp in the beginning was the amount of time involved. I was still looking or hoping for that quick fix. But its not going to happen. So use this time wisely and work on yourself. So if and when the opportunity comes down the road when your W does want to work on the M, you will be in a much better place, and much more attractive H to her.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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Here's another small and probably insignificant thing:

Do I say bye when I leave the house? It seems so rude not to.

She will leave w/o saying goodbye. She seems to pretty much ignore me when I'm leaving. It just feels awkward.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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Then dont say bye. Being polite is not going to win her back at this moment. I am friendly and civil with my W when I see her. I always have my PMA, I smile, I joke. But I dont tell her bye. I tell the kids I love them if I am leaving them with her. I say bye to them.

If she is not saying bye and ignores you, and you are constantly standing there saying bye to a brick wall, it may very well come across as pursuing. You can be friendly, you can be upbeat, and you can wear a big smile. Remember, you want her to know you are going to be ok with out her. You are moving on with your life and you are happy. And she will wonder why...


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
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I'm not trying to be obtuse.

The times she points to where she was very unhappy with our marriage are times when I would retreat into my own shell, and do stuff like not talk to her and leave without saying bye, etc.

I feel like I run the risk of compounding my problems by repeating that behavior.

However, at those times, I would also be giving off a massive negative F U vibe.

So now, as I'm trying to give off nice happy type vibes, and otherwise having pleasant interactions with her, I guess the walk out the door with no goodbye is probably not the same thing.

Thanks for helping me to talk through it.

Last edited by Winhamn; 04/13/15 02:41 PM.

Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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Feeling very overwhelmed, sad, empty right now


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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To follow that up, I just got an email from her saying she met with a lawyer today and signed my petition.

I have a meeting with a lawyer tomorrow.

She wants to talk about the stuff the lawyer said. Asked if I'd prefer email or face to face.

I'd prefer face to face but I'm not really sure I can handle it without breaking down.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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Originally Posted By: Winhamn
Feeling very overwhelmed, sad, empty right now

Sorry you are feeling bad - keep posting here.
And we will try to help you.

It is quite natural to feel this way right now.


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I feel utterly defeated


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We all have felt that. That is why GAL is so important. It is crucial to your own well being to get out and keep busy. Do things you enjoy. Maybe things you could not do much of during the marriage. GAL helps to detach. And detachment is the key to this game.


Me: 42
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That's where not being able to drive is so hard. It's really tough to get out right now.


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I gotcha. Well maybe some close friends of yours can swing by and get you sometime. You just have to find a way, as difficult as it may be. Believe me it will help you immensely.


Me: 42
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Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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She met with the lawyer yesterday. We talked some details at home. Custody arrangements, etc. No decisions made.

She was very non-challant (sp?) about it. I kept my cool, said what I really meant, and left it like that.

Afterwards, when I expected to be completely miserable, I went for a walk with my 8 year old daughter and felt really good. I had a sense of peace for much of the night.

I'm trying to get off caffeine, and didn't have any yesterday. Ended up going straight to bed after kids. Woke up a lot overnight.

Had an IC session today. I think I'll find this session to have been helpful in time, but did not provide any sort of immediate relief.

Meeting lawyer later today. Want to discuss changing some of the entries on the paperwork I filed. Not sure yet if I'm really "lawyering up" or just talking to him about a few things.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
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She was in a car accident this morning. I missed her email and text about it. Called as soon as I could.

Very confused about how to handle the car accident situation. Shes OK but sore. Car has a bunch of damage but is drivable. She'll have to go to get damage assessed, repair work, etc.

I presume I should let that be her problem.

As for the accident phonecall, I just said how I really felt. Sorry it happened to her, terrible way to start the day, are you ok, what happened, hows the car, if she needs anything let me know. I offered to pick kids up, which it turns out she needed for work anyway. Not sure that offering was the right thing to do, but at the time I didn't know if the car was/is safe to take the kids in (it probably is).


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
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Ever since our "I saw the lawyer today" conversation, she's been totally normal. Starting all kids of conversations. Normal is how I'd describe her. Except for a few physical thing and a general don't touch me undertone.

When she was leaving this morning, I went into another room and she yelled to me "have a good day" when she left.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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A question:

I just spoke with a lawyer.

I have the opportunity to file a motion for conciliation, in other words it'd be court appointed marriage counseling.

Strictly from a DB/DR point of view, it seems like this would not be a good move, although it is true to what I want.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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Winhamn, I'm in a (somewhat) similar situation, and I can tell you that the more you resist what she wants, the more she wants what she wants. Everyone's situation is different, of course, but filing a motion for conciliation against her wishes could very well irritate her and make her want out of the M even more.

And I DON'T think it was a bad thing to help her after her car accident. In fact, take those opportunities to show her love (more as a friend).

I've been doing the 180s with my stbxH for the past few weeks, reading this forum and my DB book finally arrived from Amazon.

Basically, the key thing I've learned from Michele is to play (mental) jujitsu with your WAS. Go WITH their energy, their negative feelings, their desires, and do it with a SINCERELY positive, pleasant attitude. It's very counter-intuitive, I know. Haven't gotten far enough in DB book yet to HELP them get what they want, help them in times of need and COMPLIMENT them in ways they'd never expect (but you have to mean it). Because, really, who wants to D someone who's so pleasant, helpful and complimentary despite being dumped??? Also, this makes them WANT to be around you, especially if you let them be the one to "talk" about the relationship.

For example, my stbxH just filed and house is on the market. I've been using the sale of our house to my advantage, using it as a way to reconnect and communicate. As hard as it's been to leave the house, we've spent hours and hours together cleaning, fixing things, talking about how to split assets and discussing things on the phone about the buyers/inspection/etc. And as much pain as I'm in, I've been happy, helpful and not overdoing it. I also thanked him for being respectful and fair of me during the D process (which he has been), saying it shows he has a lot of integrity (which he does)--he was STUNNED when I said that.

And according to some mutual friends, he's been taking notice of how "different" I'm acting. On his end, I've also seen a big, big transformation. I can sense he's no longer angry, resentful toward me and when we communicate, it feels like "us" again but in more of a friend way, which I'll take what I can get.

I'm getting the D paperwork (no-fault D) to sign very soon to officially start the "mandatory waiting period" in my state, and although I technically have 20 days to sign, I plan to sign it right away.

I have no idea what this means, what he's thinking, what the future holds, but I know I feel MUCH more free and less anxious because I'm learning to let go for ME. If he comes back, that's a plus.

Keep posting Winhamn. Seems like we can be of help to each other.

Last edited by Cadet; 04/16/15 11:48 AM. Reason: edit for unauthorized book entry
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Hi,

My sich in a nutshell:

Rocky marriage, WAW is moving full speed and then some on the divorce process. Separated under the same roof, she's on the couch. A week ago she declared she is "suffocating" and needs to see some progress (ie closer to divorce) being made on my end. We filed 3 weeks ago for divorce.

I don't want the divorce. 3 kids, ages 2.5, 5.5, and 8.

Trying to follow the Last Resort Technique.

My very basic question is: Should I prolong my time living in the house, or should I get out as quickly as possible?


Last edited by Winhamn; 04/20/15 04:13 PM.

Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
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She should move out not YOU.

She should do the heavy lifting on the divorce too, not you!

However PROTECT yourself, please


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I was hoping to make this a new thread so it'd get some more traffic, since I'm asking a specific question. Would that be ok Cadet?


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Stay in the house. Once you're out, you never know when (if) you'll be able to get back in.


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Originally Posted By: Winhamn
I was hoping to make this a new thread so it'd get some more traffic, since I'm asking a specific question. Would that be ok Cadet?

My suggestion is to keep one thread until you get to 100 posts and then start another one,
the problem with multiple threads is that it is more confusing later on when you try to read someones thread.

This is part of your thought process, and your story.

You can change the title in the middle of your thread if you want to.

If you are not getting enough traffic another thread is not going to get you more traffic, more likely more confusion.

I have made some posts about how to get more people on your thread, I can post it here if you would like.


Hope that makes sense.


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I agree with Calibri. If your W is no longer happy to remain together in your home, she can make plans to leave...


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Winhamn
I was hoping to make this a new thread so it'd get some more traffic, since I'm asking a specific question. Would that be ok Cadet?

My suggestion is to keep one thread until you get to 100 posts and then start another one,
the problem with multiple threads is that it is more confusing later on when you try to read someones thread.

This is part of your thought process, and your story.

You can change the title in the middle of your thread if you want to.

If you are not getting enough traffic another thread is not going to get you more traffic, more likely more confusion.

I have made some posts about how to get more people on your thread, I can post it here if you would like.


Hope that makes sense.



Winhamm...you know the saying, "scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"? That is what you need to do to get traffic back here in your own thread is by visting other people's threads that resonates with you. Even if just to say, "hi, I'm here to offer support."

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I find myself heavily triggered when visiting other threads, so I tend to stay away.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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Winhamm,


Originally Posted By: Winhamn
I find myself heavily triggered when visiting other threads, so I tend to stay away.


I would hope for your sake that you work through them. We've found that posting on other threads helps us because we learn more about other people's situations and experiences. We grow and learn from them. You just cannot keep your blinders on forever and pretend that those problems don't exist.

This is a community of like-minded people who care and support one another. Reaching out will help you a long way.


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What they say about visiting other people's threads is true. There are some wonderful people on these boards that are full of inspiration and strength. Don't be a stranger to others, and they won't be to you. Mahhhty gets on me whenever I'm gone for too long. Often I'll think of providing an update to log in and find, that very same day, a post from him asking what's new.

You will be triggered. Everything from your old life will trigger you. Everything you read about these WAW or infidelity or divorce will trigger you. Learn to accept it and work through the triggering. Once you do that you will find yourself growing stronger. Don't be afraid!


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Can you describe your M history? You never really explained what your M was like before. What were the causes that made you withdraw? How did you treat her? The more detailed you are the better.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
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Felt like I had been doing alright the last few days. Last night I sent out a request for fundraising to my contacts, and for some reason I got really emotional when my company CEO responded back. I told him last week about the divorce.

Then I got into work to find an email from my wife trying to gentle put in place a custodial arrangement while we live together but are separated. She even was asking me to leave the house for periods of time when she "has the kids". She wants to start "getting a feel for when we don't live together". It's got me feeling panic, the tightness in my chest, and anxiety.

I feel like I'm on such a roller coaster right now.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
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Originally Posted By: MrBond
Can you describe your M history? You never really explained what your M was like before. What were the causes that made you withdraw? How did you treat her? The more detailed you are the better.


During our happiest times, I would spend time talking with her, try to make dates, ask her about her day, etc.

More recently, I was very withdrawn. I distanced myself from her. Our interactions gradually dropped off. She turned to her phone and her friends to fill that void, to look to people who would show interest and care in her that I would not. She recently spent a lot of time telling me I never tell her she is pretty, that I only tell her I find her physically attractive.

She is estranged from her mom, from an early age. I think she needs to know someone cares about her, thinks she's worthwhile, and can show her acceptance and love.

I have a lot of emotional problems, and they've steadily gotten worse over the last six months, as I've been depressed and really stressed out. The result is that I've withdrawn, put up a wall between her and I. I read the DR part about "Act as if" yesterday. It really struck me.

I've been behaving "as if" she doesn't care about me, "as if" she's been unsupportive, "as if" she would choose anything else over me. My behavior and attitude were adjusted accordingly. And now, I've sealed that fate.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
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EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
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So now I'm consciously trying to act "as if" in my life.

I struggle a little bit with my wife...exactly what "as if" I should be thinking of.

I've basically come up with that I will try to act "as if" she wanted to stay married to me.

Maybe I should adjust that. I don't know. It might be too "her" centric.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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I'm really struggling with how to respond to her request to have me watch the kids for the first half of Saturday then to be out of the house overnight.

My initial reaction is to say "I feel like you are taking advantage of me by doing this".

However, what's the right response to this from a DR point of view? Happily oblige and have a good time somewhere else, right??


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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"More recently, I was very withdrawn. I distanced myself from her."

Why?

"Our interactions gradually dropped off. She turned to her phone and her friends to fill that void, to look to people who would show interest and care in her that I would not. She recently spent a lot of time telling me I never tell her she is pretty, that I only tell her I find her physically attractive."

Is she right? How did you treat her if you distanced yourself from her? Were you grouchy? Angry? etc.

"She is estranged from her mom, from an early age. I think she needs to know someone cares about her, thinks she's worthwhile, and can show her acceptance and love."

Possibly. But you're not her psychologist. Stick to what YOU can do for her.

"I have a lot of emotional problems, and they've steadily gotten worse over the last six months, as I've been depressed and really stressed out."

From what? Have you done anything to correct this?

"I've been behaving "as if" she doesn't care about me, "as if" she's been unsupportive, "as if" she would choose anything else over me. My behavior and attitude were adjusted accordingly. And now, I've sealed that fate."

I think you misunderstand the concept of "as if". You're supposed to act "as if" you're fine and build up your strength physically, mentally, spiritually AND emotionally.

"I'm really struggling with how to respond to her request to have me watch the kids for the first half of Saturday then to be out of the house overnight."

If you don't want to do it, then say 'NO'. If you want to watch your kids, take them out on an overnight somewhere. Do something that your W would never have wanted to go do. Give them an EXPERIENCE with you that they won't forget.


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Winhamn,

Bond has given you some good guidance and asking you really good questions to get you to look into your issues & patterns.

I do want to respond to these comments:

Originally Posted By: Winhamn

Then I got into work to find an email from my wife trying to gentle put in place a custodial arrangement while we live together but are separated. She even was asking me to leave the house for periods of time when she "has the kids". She wants to start "getting a feel for when we don't live together". It's got me feeling panic, the tightness in my chest, and anxiety.


My feeling is that she needs to learn how to deal with her own discomfort that is a result of her own choices. Forcing you out of your own home isn't right at all. You can say that you understand that she wants to "road test" a potential separation that you do not agree with and that you are not going to accommodate her uncomfortable emotions by leaving your own house. She's going have to work through her own emotions by confronting them herself and not asking you to leave. That's whack!

Instead, if she wants to spend time with the kids, then she can take them someplace else in the house or take them out to some activity.

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
"More recently, I was very withdrawn. I distanced myself from her."

Why?


I have no ability to be intimate or share myself. I isolated myself and put walls up. I'm seeing a new therapist in an effort to address the issue.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
Is she right? How did you treat her if you distanced yourself from her? Were you grouchy? Angry? etc.


I ignored her, I talked to her the bare minimum, I did not give compliments or show interest in her. Angry vibe, but not openly displaying it. Grouchy. Not sharing anything about myself.

Again, I'll point to the "as if" behavior (which, btw, the book is very clear about what this means and it's not "act as if everything is ok").

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I have a lot of emotional problems, and they've steadily gotten worse over the last six months, as I've been depressed and really stressed out."

From what? Have you done anything to correct this?


I was heavily depressed. I have a restricted license (meaning I can't just up and take the kids somewhere).

I've come out of the depression and am seeking help from a variety of sources, including individual therapy and counseling.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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"I have no ability to be intimate or share myself. I isolated myself and put walls up. I'm seeing a new therapist in an effort to address the issue."

Were you like this when you were dating? If not, then what do you think changed?

"I ignored her, I talked to her the bare minimum, I did not give compliments or show interest in her. Angry vibe, but not openly displaying it. Grouchy. Not sharing anything about myself."

So were you like this when you were dating her?

"Again, I'll point to the "as if" behavior (which, btw, the book is very clear about what this means and it's not "act as if everything is ok")."

You're misunderstanding the "act as if" when it comes to getting your M back on track.

"I was heavily depressed. I have a restricted license (meaning I can't just up and take the kids somewhere)."

Can you elaborate? I know it's painful, but the more details you can give us the better.

"I've come out of the depression and am seeking help from a variety of sources, including individual therapy and counseling."

Sounds like you're still in the depression funk. It's coming through in your posts. What positives are there in your life right now? Can you see any?


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
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Hi Winhamn,

MrBond is spot on with this comment:

I think you misunderstand the concept of "as if". You're supposed to act "as if" you're fine and build up your strength physically, mentally, spiritually AND emotionally.

I am really working on this and it seems to help me, even if my WAW and I do not reconcile. I'm beginning to have a more positive attitude!

Also, as Wonka points out, do not leave your house. I think that would be a big mistake. If she wants to separate, don't make it any easier on her. Do your best to open up and let your actions speak .... as I heard someone once put it, "Say little, do much."

Good luck to you my friend.

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
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It may be an argument over semantics, but the "as if" discussed in the book is one thing, acting as if you are strong, happy, and fine in the context of the Last Resort Technique is another thing.

Both are pertinent to this story.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
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Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I was heavily depressed. I have a restricted license (meaning I can't just up and take the kids somewhere)."

Can you elaborate? I know it's painful, but the more details you can give us the better.

"I've come out of the depression and am seeking help from a variety of sources, including individual therapy and counseling."

Sounds like you're still in the depression funk. It's coming through in your posts. What positives are there in your life right now? Can you see any?


I have pretty massive mood swings at the moment, which I believe is totally normal. I tend to post here when I am feeling down.

There are times when I can see lots of positives, and am even excited and very optimistic about the idea of moving out.

(let me preface this by saying that over this same time period, my wife was watching a very close friend, her "brother", die of alcoholism. He slowly faded over the last 6 months and she spent a lot of time with him and his family)

Over the winter, I was, as I said, very depressed. I was very stressed out from being in charge of the kids (usually at least one and sometimes all three) for long periods of time over the weekends.

I was not sleeping well. I would stay up till 1130 or midnight most nights, and sometimes later. I was drinking a lot of coffee, up to 6 large cups on a regular basis, and drinking it well into the afternoon.

I started drinking beer fairly regularly, a typical weekend night drinking 1 or 2. I started eating poorly, in larger quantaties. I stopped going to the gym entirely. I lost muscle, put on bellyfat, and my energy plummeted.

I spent a lot of time laying on the couch being frustrated with the kids.

Frustrated is a good description of how I felt. I felt very alone and abandoned by my wife, I felt like she was choosing someone else over me, and I felt very uncared for. I am uncapable of lovingly expressing these feelings, so I relied on my typical coping mechanism of cold withdraw and distancing, isolating myself and pushing even further into this depression that largely stemmed from feeling isolated and trapped.

I'm addressing that issue through therapy. I am a survivor of child sexual assault, and I have a lot of flawed emotional "things" as a result of that. The process will be neither easy nor quick. But I am working on it.

As I said, I am very up and down at the moment. Certainly I am not free of depression, but there is significant improvement from where I was a month ago.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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I realize a little while ago that I was doing LRT wrong. I was doing it like I was withdrawn. Doing it out of fear, negativity, and as Mr Bond pointed out, probably depression.

I've been doing a lot better having a PMA and things seem to be going better.

I've been refining my DR goals, which initially were drastically too aggressive.

Current goals:

I will engage her about non-kid related subjects and actively listen for 4 out of seven days

I will be outrightly honest with her regarding custody arrangements and I will be respectful of her thoughts and feelings on the subject

I will do something with other people each day this weekend.

I did have a positive accomplishment this morning. I am in Vegas right now for work, and while I was getting breakfast for the kids this morning, she asked me where I was staying. This is the first time she's asked me about anything I'm doing or that's going on in my life since the filing of divorce.

Then, as I was packing my luggage in the master bedroom, she came in and sat on the bed. I put everything down and actively listened while she told me a kid related story. This is the first time she's come into the room I'm in and initiated a conversation of any kind since the filing. She assumed a submissive and comfortable pose in a room with only me in it, to talk to me.

I have to celebrate the progress that's been made, while fully understanding there is so much further to go.

I still struggle mightily with the idea of holding out hope for our marriage, and moving forward with my life as a divorced man.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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I've been in vegas for a couple days. She's constantly been emailing me about various kid related practical matters.

Today she wrote one that was really long, all about how she wants to divide our assets. It started off with "Since you've been out of the house, I realize how angry and anxious I am when you are around, it think it'd be good for you to move out as soon as possible".

I hate the emails she sends me, and I used to just ignore them. Which didn't help out at all in any of this process. I refuse to handle this stuff over email, so I've been calling her to respond to the emails.

Anyway, I called her, and hashed out a few practical matters, then said "can you help me understand why you are so angry right now?"

She responded "well I'm not going to get into everything, but right now the thing that is bothering me so much is that I feel like I have to handle all the household responsibilities while you get to be Mr Fun Dad with the kids all the time."

Things sort of went downhill from there, as I asked "how can I help" she said "Move out" and I said "no" etc etc. I kept my cool during the whole thing.

It [censored]. I'm not going to stop being Mr Fun Dad, and I'm totally taking care of stuff around the house.

I need to take my own advice and realize "Her complaint is content free" and I need to make an effort to understand what she's really saying.

I actually think the absolute best case scenario at this point is that she totally unloads on me with all her built up anger. She has to get that off her chest.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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Quick question: (condensed background: she's a WAW who's "just done", started out as an unemotional breakup and shes transitioned into periods of intense anger and also periods of actual communication, I'm doing LRT, separated in the same house, divorce files)

Should I be wearing my wedding ring?


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Win,

You want to wear it because you WANT to...not because of how W feels. You do it for yourself.

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Thanks for that.

You are right. I'm wearing it because I want to. Actually, I might be wearing it because I don't want to take it off.

Geez, you got me emotional over that.


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Rather tough afternoon today. Not sure exactly what the deal was. Self esteem is low low low.

Picked out mother's day cards today. Couldn't quit find the one that said what I wanted to express to my wife. I did find one that was close-ish. I do plan to give it to her, with a simple note on the inside: "You are a great Mom"


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Win,

I would suggest that you don't give a Mother's Day card for W based on HOW you feel about W. She isn't interested in hearing you or your feelings at all. That is introducing pressure and will most definitely come across as smothering to W.

Since your kids are very young, how about assisting them with homemade cards for W? That would go a looong way with W than just Hallmark cards that your kids cannot even read let alone understand them.

If I were you, I'd put away these cards for next year. This year, make it all about your kids and their love for Mommy.

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Thank you for the reality check.

You are right, she isn't interested in hearing me or my feelings at all. In the end, it was really just an attempt to try to make a positive connection with her. I thought by leaving any reference to me or "us" out, it might not be smothering her.

Next weekend is "my" weekend with the kids and making mothers day cards was on my "to do" list.

Finding it really tough to come up with solution orientated actions for "my relationship" at the moment. Any sort of connection seems horribly impossible.

Part of the motivation for the card was to express to her that she's a great mom. One of her long term relationship complaints is feeling taken for granted and is never shown any appreciation. Again, what I need to understand is she isn't wanting to her that from me at the moment.

She's harboring a lot of anger, focused toward me, right now. I really wish she'd just yell at me a lot.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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Good GAL day today - spent running around with some work friends.

She emailed me twice, about kid stuff. I missed a call from her too, although she didn't leave a message.

I get a kids day tomorrow! Going to hang out with grandma. Should be fun.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
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Ugh. Coming home from the first "not my weekend with the kids" was really really hard.

I was just out of church and feeling really emotional. Came home, and the kids hardly noticed I was there. Wife had some sad song about watching tears rolling down someone's checks and I about lost it. I had to turn that off.

Really really was sad for a while. It eventually went away, more or less.

Small victory, did have a good non kid conversation with wife before she left to go to work.

Feeling really down about things. Kids already seem to be acting differently. I don't know much about what's going on in their lives after being gone for 6 days. I hate it.


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I'm having such an incredibly tough morning. I feel totally gutted.

I don't know how I'm going to make it through the day.

Another small victory: fun interactions with my wife and S5 while attempting to get a massive fly in our house.


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Don't really have much to add. Just keep your head up.

You can do this.


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FFS...

My wife is in this habit of sending me "no subject" emails. That's how she told me she wanted a divorce. It's how she wants to arrange custody, work out our financial situation, etc. I've explained to her many times how this approach does not work for me. I hate it.

She likes to include stuff whenever she gets an opportunity about how she's mad at me, or dosent want to be married to me.

So I live in fear of the no subject email. For over a month now. She still keeps sending them along.

So she just sent me an email with a subject "pretty awesome" about how her former bosses son got drafted in the NFL. Just like she'd have done when we were married.

It pisses me off because (much more then) half the time she's telling me exactly how she's going to tear my family apart and rip my heart out of my chest and I feel like a complete failure,

then every once in a while she just acts like things haven't changed at all

And THAT drives me a million times more bonkers then if she'd just hate on me all the time.


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I understand completely. While I haven't gotten anything like that in a few weeks, when I read back through my texts, the last ones she sent just before S are about Game of Thrones and chocolate. Like there wasn't anything wrong.


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I really enjoy photography. I was putting some pictures together last night. I mostly do candids of the kids.

I was going backwards by timestamp, and when I got to the point where we filed for D, and just like you are saying, there's a bunch of fun, silly ones with my wife and all 3 kids...just impromptu fun family time.


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Piling on top of all this, I got a notice from her lawyer adding spousal support to the list of things she's asking for, and also responding legally that she does not believe our marriage can be saved.

I hate this.


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I know exactly how youre feeling Winhamn. Its like they rip your heart our and then stomping on it to remind you. Just remember to not believe anything they say and 50% of what they do. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.


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"It pisses me off because (much more then) half the time she's telling me exactly how she's going to tear my family apart and rip my heart out of my chest and I feel like a complete failure,"

Calm down. You know this isn't her intention. It's your interpretation of this. While it's hard not to take it as a personal attack, you have to understand that it really isn't about you.


M-43 W-40
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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
Calm down. You know this isn't her intention. It's your interpretation of this. While it's hard not to take it as a personal attack, you have to understand that it really isn't about you.


You've really just summed up a slew of my emotional problems all at once.


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Hey...I just finished reading your thread and the way or reason for your D according to your W is similar to what I've had to go thru with H. He's been bogged down with work and has been withdrawing himself, putting up walls.And I've always thought that I'd be the one to ask for a D...but he's the one who did!


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Well, for me (recall I filed for D...), filing for D was one last way to withdrawl, put up walls, and lash out...

It was only after filing that I realized my contribution to this mess, and when I realized that, I bottomed out in extreme pain which allowed a lot of the crap associated with my childhood abuse to bubble to the surface, which made me realize exactly how much help I needed and how my entire life needed to change, not just my marriage.

Even if I hadn't filed first, she would have.

Anyway Arleen, I'm saying his filing for divorce may be another withdrawl mechanism and a way for him to avoid facing any changes he might need to make.


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I came home today to find what appears to be a brand new snowblower in the garage.

Of course, per MrBonds observations, I took it rather personal.

She had someone mow the lawn last week. Dunno who, although it looks like they used a commercial zero radius mower. I mow the freakin lawn at my house!

Yep taking that personal too.

I got over it.

Had a great evening with the kids tonight while she cooked her own dinner (she made the kids lunchmeat sandwiches and then cooked this huge meal of fresh food for her) and ate by herself.

So I'm still "being Mr Fun Dad" while she's still taking care of "all the responsibilities" of the house.

Whatever. I know which one of us had a great time and which one of us looked pretty miserable....

In her mind, I'm sure it's all my fault. But I gotta stop worrying about whats in her head.

And yes, I'm jealous of her new snowblower. So what...


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Its hard Winhamn. I read what Mr. Bond said and it makes a lot of sense to me about what my W is doing. its not about us and them trying to hurt us. W is scared too and she is doing what she thinks is best for her. I know at times it seems like she is trying to hurt you, but just remember to detach. Im still learning everyday.


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After closing up the computer last night, I picked up my copy of Co Dependent No More and happened to be right at the chapter "Don't be blown about by every wind" which focused exactly on what MrBond was saying.

Don't be reactionary.

Had a good morning with kids. Another small victory, wife again told me about something going on in her life. Goal review -

My current goals were:

I will engage her about non-kid related subjects and actively listen for 4 out of seven days (I am on track with this one, it's happening almost every day now. I think I'm at 2 days in a row, and one more before the weekend)

I will be outrightly honest with her regarding custody arrangements and I will be respectful of her thoughts and feelings on the subject (I have not been able to make this happen yet. I'm struggling to find the right medium, time, and place)

I will do something with other people each day this weekend. (I did this)

In the next couple days, I probably need to revise these for this week. I know one I can add for sure:

I will complete the PTSI evaluation before close of business Thursday for my IC counseling with CSA specialist on Friday.


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She emailed saying she wants to talk about custody arrangements tonight. She's trying to drag me into email discussions about it, but I'm not having that.

So I am going to stick to my goal:

I will be outrightly honest with her regarding custody arrangements and I will be respectful of her thoughts and feelings on the subject


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Custody arrangements talk went poorly...well...in so much as she said a whole lot of hurtful things, such as "I don't care about your feelings", "I can't stand to live with you", "I want you to get the f out of the house as soon as possible".

I very much recognize this is all part of the script, but that doesn't really make it hurt less.

Generally speaking, I remained fairly calm, productive, and tried to listen more then I talked. I did argue a little, and there were some spots I should have validated better or done more STFU, but I did ok.

Tonight, prior to the talk, I was really reminded of why I was so miserable in our marriage. She spent so much time texting instead of taking care of the kids or watching S5's soccer game, it just really gets under my skin.

So between watching her choose her phone over our family, and the things she said, I'm starting to remember why it was me that filed for divorce first....

I'm starting to transfer into that hateful anger stage.

I've been thinking snarky things to say or do all night long, but have managed to keep my mouth shut.


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Oh one more thing, this is the first time I've really seen her in pain over this process.

I know the pain was not for me. It was her guilt and the prospect of being away from her kids. She started to cry, and it nearly made me start to cry.

But it was refreshing to see something besides cold unemotionalness (I invented that word just now) and anger from her. Even when we told our kids, she showed no emotion.

Only one other time did I catch her with her head slumped down in her folded arms while sitting at the counter....


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Thanks for posting on my thread. I just read through the entirety of yours. So many similarities, especially when it comes to the emotions you are going through. Almost like looking in a mirror.

Good luck to both of us!


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Don't really have any advice. But I'm thinking of you and hoping for the best.

I hate to say it, but I've noticed it really does feel good to see the W cry about this stuff. They put up such a hard exterior while we are left hurting so much; it's nice to at least see that they care and see that they have actual feelings about all this.


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Had a good morning. Felt fairly detached.

Exchanged pleasantries with wife in a civil manner.

She was sort of stepping up the "happy" this morning, and frankly it was nice to see her having very positive interactions with the kids.

Caught her catching glimpses of me a couple times. I'm overanalyzing though.

I put a rubber band on my wrist the other day, and I snap myself whenever I think about her or us getting back together, or think of her sexually, or think of her with another guy. It's helped me stay very conscious of what my thoughts are doing.

Matt, it's really hard to remember that they are just broken, scared, hurt people like me and you.

I sure wish I had an answer for all this.


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Win,

We are in a very similar sitch. However, while my W is just completely non-confrontational about things, I think your W is a bit meaner, if you'll pardon me saying so. Did she really say: "I want you to get the f out of the house as soon as possible"? Did she really drop the F-bomb? That is not very classy. And she has no right to demand it of you.

I though of some practical advice that may help you detach while you are under the same roof:
It seems like your W is tormenting you with her 'subject-less' emails. I agree with Mr. Bond (would have to be crazy not to) that it is NOT about you. Nevertheless you are experiencing a LOT of spew from her. My thought was: perhaps you can configure your email software to receive her emails directly into a separate folder. The Trash folder would be ideal, but that is probably not practical at this point wink. Perhaps you can have a folder called "spew", and rather than seeing an endless flow or trickle of tormenting spews all day, you could check the folder once a day, when you are mentally and emotionally prepared for it. Just a thought.

Hang in there. We share your pain, so you don't have to shoulder it all yourself.

RAI


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Yes, she used the f bomb a lot, and has been asking me to get out of the house as soon as possible for a little while now.

It's one of those things were this isn't the person I married. I've never seen her act this way, or anywhere close to it at all, in any context, since the day I met her.

Like on the acting this way scale of 1 to 100, I've seen her maybe at 20 before, and there are moments of time where she's acting at 80 now.

It feels so strange and foreign and is hard to believe. Again, the thing that makes me crazy, is there are moments where she acts like the person I married.

Probably not a bad idea on the email thing. You kinda hit the nail on the head, in so much as I don't mind the emails when I'm prepared for them. She likes to throw in necessary logistical stuff with a little spew here and there.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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I feel different today.

I'm going to an IC session in a few minutes. I have (2) ICs, one is focusing on my sexual abuse recovery, the other is like "general". I'm going to the "general". She's been my IC since my wife's EA 4 years ago and she knows our whole story.

I stopped going for a year and a half until the divorce hit. I backslid a lot during that time. And the marriage went boom.

But I feel good today. Confident.

And it sort of [censored], because there have been days recently when I felt so terrible and I wanted nothing more then to be able to go to my IC and cry and whine and let it out.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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IC session was good.

Talked about many different things, but what is sticking with me is how our marriage had a really dysfunctional dynamic, that was a result of my insecurities and emotional problems but also a result of hers.

I'm really feeling for the first time since D was filed that the collapse of this marriage was a shared responsibility. I'm also re-engaging with the fact that I was completely unhappy in this marriage as well, and have no desire to go back to that marriage.

Having said that, I do believe in my heart that a union between my "old" wife and I has POTENTIALLY to be a happy marriage.

I'm finding it easier to disengage and look forward at this exact moment in time (I'm sure I'll backslide a bunch any second now)


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Aug 2014
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Welcome to the roller coaster, my friend. Accept that there will be good days and bad days. Days when you will feel detached and days when you will feel needy. Bring it all to your IC or hear. There is always someone to talk to who will listen.

RAI


Me 48 XW 45
lots o' kids
D April 2017
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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Winhamn Offline OP
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Confirmed OM tonight. EA affair partner from 4 years ago.

Will post details later.

Struggling with whether I should confront or not? Not sure what I'm going to gain by confronting.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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Sat down at our laptop tonight to print some pictures for the kids to give her for mothers day.

Couldn't resist the temptation to look at the history. It was the first time I had used the laptop since D was filed.

Pretty clean, except for some odd entries for expedia and delta.

The expedia link showed she was looking at flights to Charlotte NC. Leaving this Friday the 8th and returning Monday the 11th.

We don't know anyone in Charlotte I said to myself. Bugged the crap out of me.

Then I hopped on facebook real quick, cause I said I wonder if that old EA affair partner didn't move to Charlotte.

Sure enough, his facebook profile showed real clear, he's located in Charlotte.

She isn't going there. But she's made a big deal out of being gone this weekend, and even for mother's day, she's not spending the night here. Now I'm thinking he's probably coming here.

I just hate this. My head is messed up enough.

I really want to confront her, hoping to keep any meet-up from happening.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 762
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Sorry Win. really, really sorry.
RAI


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D April 2017
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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She looked at tickets from Friday to Monday.

She's leaving the house this weeknd, from Friday to Monday. However she is coming to a family event Saturday, and then she's having the kids mothers day.

I can't imagine how I'm going to coexist with her either day, knowing full well where she just left from.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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Winhamn Offline OP
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I really hate being in this place.

She's had a ONS PA before. It was horrible for me.

She had an incredibly similar EA (I cannot confirm any physical contact) with this same guy 4 years ago. It was horrible for me.

Filing for divorce was even worse then those two.

Now I was starting to feel more at ease with the divorce situation, and bang, I'm right back into a really really bad spot.

I just hate this.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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Winhamn Offline OP
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She was pretty darn nice this morning. Told me about some stuff at her gym (one of my goals...). Really engaging me with kid related items.

I'm sure she's trying not to rock the boat before this weekend. Manipulation. Ugh.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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Winhamn Offline OP
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My head says "get out and never look back" but my heart says "put a stop to this and try to save your marriage".

I'm so torn on what I really want.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,647
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Win. I feel your pain. I understand every bit of it. That's exactly where I am right now. You can read about my last couple days and I truly can't decide anymore whether I even WANT this marriage anymore. I know she isn't "her" and I know not to believe everything. But still I can't decide if there is actually a hope to get back to a good place together.

I think that's a decision only you can make. And it won't be easy.


At BD - Me: 33 Her: 33; M: 10 T: 15; D: 6 and 3

BD: 3/25/15
S: 4/20/15
D: 11/9/15
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Winhamn,

I know exactly how you feel. Im in the same place. One minute im convinced that im ready move on from our marriage and then the next minute i want my W back. Its so hard especially when they are nice to you. When they are nice, you feel like things might be able to work, but just be careful. Sandi says be careful, because sometimes they will act nice because they want something. Stay strong and keep focusing on yourself.

Nick


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BD-3/22/2015
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I'm sure she's acting nice because she doesn't want me to upset her weekend with the affair partner.


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 173
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Winhamn Offline OP
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How crazy is it that I just want an email or a text from her right now???

How am I going to make it through this weekend knowing what she's up to?


Me: 35 Her (WAW): 34
D8, S5, D2
T:16, M:9
BD + D: 4/3/2015
EA Confirmed 5/6/2015
Separation under the same roof
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