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#2555925 04/10/15 01:04 PM
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Well, I think I'm about to lock and so it is time for a new thread. Here's a link to the last one.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2548778&page=1

Quick recap:

BD1 - Mar 2014, EA discovered

BD2 - July 2014, H admits PA. I move to parents 2 hrs away

Jul-Sep 2014 - lots of talking with H, A continues, he's 'confused.'

Oct-Feb 2014 - Virtually NC. I rent a flat, build up my own life, no idea of A status.

Feb 2015 - H made redundant. Wants to sell our house. Says our R is over, then backtracks. OW back in the country, but H is 'dating' others ATM.

Mar 2015 - Agree to sell house, formalise S and divide assets. H then says he wants us to D. I tell him I love him and D isn't what I want. He's thinking about things.

Well, I just realised that nothing at all has changed since my last recap.... frown

So, I received a text from H today:

*He is sorry he hasn't been in touch
*He has gone to the US to see his sisters
*He thought it best to talk with them before making big decisions
*He has been spending time with his nieces doing crafts
*Did I know my father has another email virus?

I'm not sure whether to even bother replying TBH. Any thoughts?

I have always got along well with his sisters. One of them was very upset and dead against the A relationship. The other said that if he was feeling so unhappy with his life, perhaps a change would be the right thing. Both have said to me that they love having me as a sister in law - but haven't been in touch with me since pretty much after BD.

It's a bit insensitive of him to mention my nieces I think. He knows I always loved doing crafts with them. And now he's there doing that, whilst I'm not... frown

I won't do anything just now, and will see what you guys think.


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Toots,

You know the drill by now - NO EXPECTATIONS!!!

Having said that, everyone has their own perspective on things don't they? Total mind reading I know but isn't it possible H decided to text you after speaking to relatives? If so it would at least indicate that he has indeed been thinking/talking things over. Maybe the mention of the crafts activity was a way of connecting with you over an activity that you're known to like? I wouldn't necessarily see it as something insensitive. I suppose it depends on the exact nature of the text.

Of course the endless waiting would send anyone around the bend but your posts indicate that you have handled this with aplomb! I think at this point you know what to do, as per your last post. Take time to think out what you want to do. Should you choose to reply act 'as if' you're not waiting around for his decision. Keep up the good work!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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I don't think you should even reply, or if you do, just a simple "Send everyone my love!", upbeat sort of thing.


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BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Thanks Guys - I just sent a brief reply as Starsky suggested. Alpha, you may be right - who knows? For sure, he seems pretty confused still. I must be winning records for the greatest number of holding emails/texts on the forum!

Thanks for posting - it's much appreciated! x


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Hi. Toots. Firstly he emailed ! Positive. Secondly. He is talking through his options with family who care about you ! Positive. Thirdly. He is still thinking and hasn't ruled out R. !!! Positive. Fourthly. He hasn't decided to call it a day. !!! Positive.

Your H sounds like he is still in the fog and at least he is trying to see a way out even if he hasn't found one yet.

Toots needs to carry on , carrying on and see where it takes her

Toots , the future is bright and a lot of positives Really pleased for you and we are heading up on the roller coaster, Enjoy

Positive thoughts. But not expecting anything. Take care Rd. xxx. ( 3 kisses Positive)

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Excellent post RD. That summarised everything really well I think.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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Thanks RD. It's helpful to have your perspective. I had just thought - great, another holding response....

But you are right. He's unsure & with his family is a good place for him to be. I've always been very fond of them & they of me I think.

I figure I've started on this course - of I don't want to D, but won't stand in your way - and I just need to carry on & see it through now.

And thanks Alpha for the endorsement. I'm very grateful.

T x


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Toots

Chill..........

Let H work his stuff, if you push then you will get a reactive "no way"

It is one of RDs stars I think he contact you.

Chill pill!

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
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All this while I've been sleeping! I agree with what everyone has said so far. Playing crafts with niece - I also took that as an effort to connect or at least acknowledge that he knows something of your interests (not in a digging way). It's good to get some sign that he is still in the fog I think. Sure if would be better if he came out with a clear Yes let's R! But failing this I think confused is good, especially knowing Toots is Toots and living her life rather than waiting around.


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Hi Toots great title for a thread. Is it meant with ironic tone?

I think that your thread already has that little exchange covered of nicely so not much I can add really. I definitely think you did the right thing with a 'say hi for me' message


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
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XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
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Thanks V, Gan and Jim. V - yes, I've taken a chill pill and it's back to business as usual. Gan, you'll need to give up on that sleeping thing - you miss out on stuff when you do that! Jim, I'm glad you like the thread title. Is it ironic? I'm not sure. It could be taken as Toots being somewhat marvellous. Or it could be taken as a hands on hips, typically British - Oh, bleedin' Marvellous. Make of it what you will, I would say.

Well, it's wet here as promised, and I had a late call up to Mum & Dad's last night, so I'm a bit slow getting started today. I need to log onto work and catch up a bit this morning, and then volunteering at the bookstore this pm. Quietish day for Toots.

I think I get the message from all of the above. Keep on moving forwards and living my own life and leave H to knit his own fog - no problem.

Have a good day all x

Last edited by Toots; 04/11/15 07:51 AM.

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Hi Toots,

I agree that it's positive that your H is taking his time to think about before he talks to you. And the craft stuff sounds more like it remind him of you.

The limbo zone is one of the most torture time but it is somewhat a time to think things over. It also screams that he is very confused right now.

Unfortunately, we are in their time frame, it is not fair at all but we can't rush anything. It is also important to remember that he did not expect you to be reacting the way you are and that alone is probably confusing him right now.

The truth is that he was thinking about you, and more likely talking about you, and that's why he wrote to you. He did not need to write anything, he could just ignore to give you any explanation of why he did not answer you yet.

Be patient, I know you can. Let him deal with all his demons right now. Good short and nice reply you gave him. It's better this way, I am sure he is always confused of why you are reacting the way you do.

You are an amazing and strong person. Let it all fall into the right place when the time is right.

XOXO
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Toots

Get on with life. Go GAL.

Have some fun and I hope the tooth is slightly better.

This is a marathon not a sprint my darling one.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Hey Toots

How long are you prepared to hang in limbo like this?

At the moment it seems your H has all the power. He is deciding if and when he wants to come back to the marriage. How nice of him! You found out a year ago and having been living in this limbo state ever since. GALing of course but still in your mind waiting for him to return
I'm not meaning to come across as insensitive but I am interested to know.


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Hi OTU, thanks for your question. I don't know is the honest answer. I am standing for our M at the moment and I'll continue to stand until I decide not to stand any longer. I don't know when that may be.

It may seem as though my H has all the power, but I don't see it that way. I set firm boundaries from the outset. I moved out of our MH as soon as he told me about his A. I have lived independently since then. He wants to sell our house, but I insist on fully resolving our finances before I agree to sell. He has asked for a D and I have told him that is not what I want, but I will not stand in his way if he chooses to file for D. I have exercised many choices in recent months.

Yes, I think he is considering his options right now. From what I have seen and heard of him recently, I don't think he is in a great place. Things don't seem to have worked out well in terms of his AP, and I think he is somewhat lost and confused.

I guess I don't see myself as 'hanging in limbo.' I see myself as moving forwards. Not moving on yet. I haven't closed the door on a R with him, but certainly moving forwards. Since we S, I have rented my own place, been to see an IC, joined an infidelity support group, joined a book group and calligraphy group, started regular volunteering, taken up yoga, started aqua aerobics, joined a social group, taken up Ceroc.

I'm not standing still - my life is full without H, and I am growing happier and more independent. These are good things whatever happens. Thanks for taking the time to post. You didn't come across as insensitive - it's a valid question, and thanks for asking it.

T smile


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Hi Toots. I have to agree with you I didn't think your life was in limbo , more you are standing for your M. It's a difficult place to be but for me , you have handled it better than most. Your posts are very full of your life and very rarely do you post a "poor me " post ( like I do !!!). you do post if H makes contact but that's what we all wait for ! you need no defending from me but the way you left after BD was very brave and made a huge statement to H. If anything I was of the impression that your H thiought you were finished until your recent email that has given him something to think about Hope your having a good day Toots.

Take care. Rd. xx

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I do not see you as hanging in limbo either Toots.

Ontheup it can be easy to confuse DBing with being in Limbo but they are not the same. Limbo is inactive, just waiting around moping for another to decide their choiceand Toots definitely isnt doing that she has her own power and chooses to use that to create growth for herself. She goes GAL, has PMA and her own life.

V


Last edited by Vanilla; 04/12/15 05:09 PM.

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Hey Toots and everyone else

I did not mean to offend with my question

Toots you are definitely a big inspiration on these boards the way you have handled the whole ordeal and you have certainly been a big help for me when I was posting my own sitch.

Maybe im just way too cynical at the moment as I have pretty much given up all hope for my marriage.
You have definitely made massive strides and you certainly have a full life, I don't question any of that.


Think you pretty much answered it with this statement "I see myself as moving forwards. Not moving on yet"

Once again sorry If I offended.


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Hi OTU - no offence taken at all my friend, and you are always welcome to ask tricky questions. I'm glad if I have helped you in any way with my posts. It is one of the upsides of these sitches that we can offer and receive help.

I get you on the cynical feelings. I live opposite the Registrars office, and when the newlyweds come out for their photos, the 'failure' stats pop into my head. I'm not sure if it is cynicism as such, but certainly a loss of innocence for me about love and marriage. That will never be quite the same again, and I mourn the loss of that.

I certainly don't feel either of us should feel hopeless about our M's - you and I are both 9 monthers, and I remember reading on these boards that it is so rare for sitches to resolve in under 9 months. I guess time will tell for both of us. In a way, I think it is best not to feel hopeful or hopeless and just focus on our own lives. I think I'm willing to carry on with the uncertainty in respect of my M because I have become more detached, and I'm enjoying new things I have been doing. It's less central to me than it was.

I've been Mum-sitting today & we had some good laughs together. She's always up to some kind of mischief or another. Then GAL aqua aerobics tonight and just sat down with a glass of wine. Hope all you lovely DBers are having a nice evening...

Thanks RD and V for your perspectives too...xx


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Hi Toots

My apologies for not checking in on your sitch over the weekend, it was manic busy as you know. I agree with others postings on here, it seems H is keeping you in his mind, as we've all said the opposite of love is indifference and it doesnt seem to be the case here.

I think there is a point to be had over any of our WAS's who we want back having "control" but then that's to be expected if we want them back and they haven't committed to that yet. You know in my case w admitted that she never wanted to see me again in July, now less so (although it can always turn either way). I wrestled with whether to give up and decided to stand but detach as you have, thats not giving w control or you giving your h control just that one of you has put their cards on the table that you want to save the marriage and the other is debating whether to join in.

When w and I had a chat the other week I validated but made it clear I didnt want a divorce, I will work with w if she chooses to move ahead with me but I dont want either of us or s to be unhappy, either of us can walk away but both of us would need to decide to work on the marriage if it is to work. So know that while H can decide not to come back, equally you can decide you stood long enough as can any of us. Dbing helps us be rounded people to make that call or to stand rather than running purely on emotions or if we had any within the marriage continuing the same behaviours into the future.

In short Toots, keep going you're doing well. You've had some contact and I too am in that 9 monthers club (we really should have t-shirts).

(((((Toots)))))

Edz


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Toots, I have this mental image of a absolutely stunning, drop dead gorgeous woman when I think of you. Not flashy, trendy type of beautiful but classic, formal, almost royal type.

My kids went back to school today, as last week was spring breakand my almost 9 year old was SO excited thinking about post cards waiting for him.

The more I think about it the more I think your H was REALLY trying to show you he was thinking about you when doing crafts with the family.....


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
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He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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I got that impression too about the craft activities.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
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Thanks Guys. Yes, interesting about the crafts. He told me that our little niece had taught him to knit, and he could even purl stitch. It was always me that spent time with our two little nieces doing craft stuff - I love doing crafts with kids! Thanks Twin and Alpha too. It seems the consensus is he was thinking of me or trying to connect or similar. I shouldn't have taken it as insensitive.

Edz, I think we see things in similar ways. At some point I will feel ready to move on. But for now I'm sticking with it. I'm okay doing that. It doesn't cause me great hardship. I think the big thing for me is to keep the 'forward' button pressed in most of my life. If there's a little part waiting to see what unfolds in terms of our M - that's okay with me.

Twin - well what can I say? Kate Middleton has nothing on me....I would describe myself as reasonably attractive - but 'stunning' may take a few hours and a team of experts grin I hope the postcards have arrived safely and your S is pleased...

I smiled at a lady in Mum's day care centre recently. And she said to me 'You're beautiful, you are.' I went home feeling pleased about that. Next time I saw her, she said to me - 'you're a nice man.'

Been working from home this morning. And I'm volunteering in a bit, so must dash. Need to do a food shop later for SS and his Mum coming on Wed. I'm working away tomorrow, so that will be a long day.

Thanks so much for posting xx


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Hi sister,

All your words are a fountain of hope and power. This is a girl that knows what she wants and don't mind the hard work.

Many times I had a thought of taking the easy road and giving up and there was Toots in my mind, saying... keep making you life better and hang in there for your M until you tried it all and is OK to let go.

Yesterday, my H told me that one of our friends that got divorced almost three years ago, is trying to get back with his XW. She cheated on him, left him broken heart. He went through an ordeal of pain but got himself a life.

Now, after almost three years, she is back in his life and they agreed to go into MC to see if they can rescue their R, or built a new one.

I also found out that an older couple I know for a few years, remarried a couple of months ago. Their children were all grown up, the couple got divorced, sold their houses and after 4 years they decided to start dating and then got married again.

So, life is weird, complicated. We never know what will happen tomorrow, we can just stick to our guts and be honest to what we want at the moment.

You are doing the right thing. I know in my heart that if a new situation presents itself that you will think about, if it is with H or not, there will be consideration. I know there is a lot of pain, but you are digesting it all and turning it into energy.

Keep doing what is right for you Toots, knowing what we want is power. You sure are not giving any power to your H, your life is only yours and he is not telling what decision to take next.

We love you very, very much and wish you happiness. You are beautiful. You are gorgeous.

Love,
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Originally Posted By: edz
In short Toots, keep going you're doing well. You've had some contact and I too am in that 9 monthers club (we really should have t-shirts).

Nu-uh, T-shirts were for 6 monthers. 9 monthers earn a vest/gilet depending on where they are from! It's a sweater/jumper for 12 monthers.


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Gan

A spew jacket beyond that?

V


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I didn't receive my 6 month T-shirt in the post....should I complain?

A busy day for me today. On the road early and worked all day. In and out of meetings. I have a lovely drive to work and it was a gorgeous spring day here. Also, I work with old friends, so all in all a nice day.

Tomorrow, I have SS and his Mum coming down for a visit. We're going to have some lunch then go visit my parents (SS is very fond of them.) They are staying over and then going home the next day - should be nice.

All quiet on the H front - although he's back from the transatlantic family visit. Trying to just sit with that - although part of me wants to shake him and say - EMAIL ME!!! - it's a part I'm suppressing obviously. I guess detachment is very much a work in progress.

I've been reading on other threads how it is best not to even think of your WAH as your H. I get why, but I struggle with that. Even though I'm leading a pretty full and happy life without him, I still think of him as my H. But I accept the point. He has had a whole R with someone else in the past year.....so he may very well not see himself as my H at all. Am I just struggling to accept reality? IDK....

Hope you are all having a good day x


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Originally Posted By: Toots
I didn't receive my 6 month T-shirt in the post....should I complain?

A busy day for me today. On the road early and worked all day. In and out of meetings. I have a lovely drive to work and it was a gorgeous spring day here. Also, I work with old friends, so all in all a nice day.


It's great you can remain positive and find reasons to be positive given your circumstances. When these affairs are new, it's very hard not to focus on it due to the pain and become drawn into it and spend all your time worrying about it.

Originally Posted By: Toots


Tomorrow, I have SS and his Mum coming down for a visit. We're going to have some lunch then go visit my parents (SS is very fond of them.) They are staying over and then going home the next day - should be nice.

All quiet on the H front - although he's back from the transatlantic family visit. Trying to just sit with that - although part of me wants to shake him and say - EMAIL ME!!! - it's a part I'm suppressing obviously. I guess detachment is very much a work in progress.


Sounds good. I will explain why in a bit it is nearly impossible to communicate and get responsibility out of a wayward...

Originally Posted By: Toots


I've been reading on other threads how it is best not to even think of your WAH as your H. I get why, but I struggle with that. Even though I'm leading a pretty full and happy life without him, I still think of him as my H. But I accept the point. He has had a whole R with someone else in the past year.....so he may very well not see himself as my H at all. Am I just struggling to accept reality? IDK....

Hope you are all having a good day x


It's easiest to look at the wayward as it's not your spouse anymore. What if they were "just" a boyfriend or girlfriend. You guys had been responsible to each other for years, and they run off. Get another girlfriend or boyfriend. They fall back on you when things get going rought with the new one or for you to do some favours for them, or to make them feel good about themselves.

However when they have run off to the other, they have left you and you aren't really with them anymore nor should you coddle or make it easy to them, tell them to get that from their new relationship partner.

They are hard to communicate with, because they are usually getting a high level of involvement and commmittement from a left behind spouse, yet they are hardly giving anything of themselves down to almost zero commitment and care...

So they have no reason to be good and reliable to you, because they don't have to. The left behind will love them anyway.

So yes, after some time period, I think it helps best with attachment to take them out of the W or H role. They are not performing their job and are fired.

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Hi toots,

Where emotions are involved it is very difficult to put into practice what we understand in theory. You seem to do this better than most. Whether your H sees himself as such right now is not so important, however hard that is to really 'get'. Try not to think about it. Take a look at your life now. It would seem from here that you are leading a more fulfilling life in many respects than you were before all this started for you. That is personal development. You should be proud of yourself.

I know, I know...deep down all comments and praise are nice but you want your H back. I share your pain. You know more than me of course that your attitude and behaviour are in line with doing everything you can to bring that sitch to pass.

Should your H decide to work on things he will surely be in for a pleasant surprise with the amount of change you have undergone. Should he not want to work on things, that is his loss and ultimately your gain for FUTURE HAPPINESS.


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I'm sure we agreed a T-shirt, vest, gilet schedule some time ago..... Whatever it is you've earned it Toots.

Your H will reply when he gets round to it, which I know isn't great for you but as much as he may just not be giving it any thought he may equally be endlessly rewriting a letter to get the words 'just right'

Best give it and him as little thought as possible and focus on the marvellous Toots.

Personally I found the point when I fully recognised and accepted my X isn't my wife but someone else's girlfriend really help my mindset improve. The only thing that mental shift affects is me and for me it helped.


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Toots

A journey not a destination.

Fences are designed for leaning against and sitting on sometimes.

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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Originally Posted By: Toots
I've been reading on other threads how it is best not to even think of your WAH as your H. I get why, but I struggle with that. Even though I'm leading a pretty full and happy life without him, I still think of him as my H. But I accept the point. He has had a whole R with someone else in the past year.....so he may very well not see himself as my H at all. Am I just struggling to accept reality? IDK....

I'm with you there, Toots. I find it particularly difficult to know whether or not to tell H about possible big decisions. Like if I decided to up and move to Tanzania permanently say wink But I think this is a byproduct of DBing. Without it I think we'd be more inclined to accept that it's done and move on. I fear DBing once very separated (like we are) prolongs the process and keeps us holding on.


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Hi Toots I hope your ok and having a great day. I was reflecting today on a few things and you came to mind a couple of times. My job involves me chatting to a lot of people The telephone calls are often short but I am able to draw people out of themselves and I really enjoy the interaction . today I was dealing with a lady in Warrington We were talking about 7 plts of dye and the lady told me that the office was closing early due to a death in the owners family We got chatting about life and it's fragility and I mentioned that you had to enjoy each day and take it as it comes We joked about my zen like thoughts and I told her that I had a friend in the uk going through a seperation with her H (TOOTS ) and how strong she was and took the time to help others The lady on the phone said I was lucky to know someone with such strength as it can be very rare to find , the lady then asked if you were a childhood friend as I spoke so warmly of you.

Toots , you are amazing , I stick to a few posters on here a I try to offer support to those in a similar sitch or who have shown an interest in mine. It's very rare that I post or even read on a sitch where you have not been posting As you know I have a few great friends on this site ( and a couple of potential hot dates) and I intend to single them all out at some stage

Thank you Toots. I feel I have become a decent father and man and you have supported me the whole way Your kind words have lifted me when I've be down , your suggestions and advice have guided me when I was lost and your constant support and prompt posting has kept me going when I feel all hope is gone

I follow your sitch daily and often feel your way to good for your H but I do understand it's your H and you love him Your strength facing your BD was and is amazing. If their is such a thing as Karma then Toots is in for a fantastic future , you are a model of DBing and life will be good to you

Thanks again so much for the kindness and support. You are a special person and im always going to remember Toots as term for kindness and strength.

One of your many online friends. Rd. xx

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Thanks DLS and Jim. I'll try thinking of him that way - someone else's boyfriend. That may help. I know I'm GALing in many ways, but I want to work more on detachment. I still hold a little place in my heart, and I think that's okay. But I think I need to try and let go more.I'm still attached to the outcome of him responding to me, and it would be good if I could let that go.

Gan, I don't know if it DBing that keeps us attached. Is it just that we need to work on detachment more? Alpha, thanks for your kind comments. Yes, I do have a pretty full life now, and maybe I just need to focus on that. I do feel I clawed my way up to here from despair and trauma. And I won't give up on the life I have built lightly. I can see that if H wanted to try again, but seemed not to have done the work, I just wouldn't be that interested. V, maybe I'll be the one sitting on the fence sometime soon..

RD, thanks so much for your kind words, which made me cry again. I've been watching Brene Brown on TED tonight. She's well worth a watch - but I feel a bit vulnerable now. Had a nice time with SS and his Mum. His Mum is kind of keen to discuss how I feel about things, but I managed to deflect a couple of pertinent questions. I'll be seeing them again tomorrow....

Thanks all for kindly posting - you guys are great! X

Last edited by Toots; 04/15/15 08:47 PM.

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Hi (((((Toots)))))

Just keep hanging in there, if all this has told me anything its how fast things change and jump into a new direction (todays ...interesting.... events are over in my thread)

Who knows where we will all end up, the destination like many childhood car trips which were hot cramped noisy and unpleasant are often what we remember over the destination we eventually got to. I have my hopes on where my destination lays but I know this journey has made me a much better father and person than I have been in many years.

I hope your destination is a happy one, where you want to be and will feel fulfilled but also look out the window on the journey and note what a fantastic person Toots is right now, at this second smile

Take it easy

Edz

Last edited by edz; 04/15/15 09:29 PM.

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Hi Toots,

In my view it has two different directions:
1. Legally, he will be your H until the D is final and signed by both of you. Very clear, while the D is off the table, then you are married to each other. So anything related to the law side of the R, it will compromise one or the other. At least it is like this here in the US.

2. Emotionally it gets more complicated, if you still love him and wants to get back into the R, then you keep yourself pretty much M to him at all times. When and if you start detaching from him, then you are not so attached to the M values.

DBing is one crazy and very difficult thing to do at the beginning of the separation because we are mentally and emotionally attached to the spouse. Once we start developing our own independent life again, things start getting easier.

As you detach, you get stronger in your life because you are not so fragile regarding the R hurt, pain. And if you both decide to go back to the M, it will be in a totally different R. It will never be the same, you learned a lot, he learned some more and it will just be a whole new R and M.

It's very difficult to let go and to hope in the same time. The love game designed in DB is extremely directed to human beings and their actions and reactions related to their feelings. That's why it is important to create a plan, to analyze the circumstances, to think before you say, to listen more then talk.

There were, are and will always be some great power involved in actions that trigger different feeling in human beings and create a reaction. Like "contempt" - for some reason it has some power in the love zone. Sometimes, I think that DBing is quite like this, contempt. You kind of move on, don't get yourself worked out because of the WAS anymore, you don't call, don't contact at all, when you see them you don't show your emotions, it does not bother you if they are there or not.

And this is precisely what can (maybe) bring them back. It's when you say enough that they will maybe pay attention you are there somewhere.

It's complicated, it's amazing how human beings are so complex.

Love,
Pink


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Thanks Edz and Pink. Edz, I will try and remember what you say - not that I am fantastic, but that I am enough - as Berne Brown would say. I have felt so emotional since watching her TED talks. I do think I carry feelings of shame with me - not even about anything specific - but a general feeling that 'flawed me' isn't somehow good enough. And, as Brown explains - being vulnerable means we connect more with others. I think I often put up a bit of a wall and just present myself as I think others want me to be - rather than just accepting myself and being authentic. It's something to look at, and I ordered one of Brown's books last night.

And Pink, thanks for your thought too. Even HXW called him my ex-husband today...

I didn't manage to deflect the questions from SS's Mum this morning, and we had a very emotional morning. She and he said that me being in their lives has made such a difference and they want us to stay in touch - to be at his wedding and be a grandparent. They call me his 'other Mum.' Since I have been gone, he said that he notices all the things I used to do for him, that he didn't really appreciate until suddenly they just stopped being done. He said his Dad doesn't seem to notice stuff that needs doing, and I would always notice and look after things.

I said one of the things I regret was being a bit of a control freak, and an anxious step mum. I wished I had just relaxed a bit more & had some more fun time. He said I did get on his nerves sometimes, but he always knew it was in his best interests. I told them that I struggled with the fact that I just left and 'abandoned the family.' And they said they didn't see it that way at all.

SS knows that the house is going to be sold soon, and says he will be glad because he won't have to see his Dad so much as he'll be further away. He said he sees his Dad less now, as his Dad is away more. We had a chat about how important it is to have a R with both your Mum & Dad, even if there are times when that feels harder, and you have to work at it more. I told him that I always thought he and his Dad had a special bond.

It was kind of good to have the convo, and may help to lay some things to rest for us all. But I had always resisted, as I hadn't wanted SS to have to handle my grief...I think I would have been okay were it not for Berne Brown. They have headed home now - but it was a nice visit. I'm going to regroup and head out to the bookstore for a couple of hours. Hopefully, I'll feel calmer after that...

Hope you are all having a good day x

Last edited by Toots; 04/16/15 12:10 PM.

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Sounds like an emotional day but a nice one. Take care. Rd

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Hi Toots,

How emotional. It would shake any person that has such good feelings as you have. It amazes me that you have such close R with your H's X and son.

I see your change in emotions to be more detachment. We are in this situation for about the same time and I can feel in myself that I am letting it go a little more.

I don't know if it is good or bad, but I stopped blaming myself as much and start seeing the damage that is being done by my irresponsible H.

It's sad that we need to hear such harsh words from a child, but this is what this man is doing. He is hurting a lot of people.

Hope you had a good time at the book store. You deserve to feel good. So work on yourself. Try to find out the reasons for that shame you talked about.

Remember that you will be OK. Try to picture a year or two from now. It will be a whole different game.

((((((((Toots)))))))))

XOXO
Pink


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Thanks Pink -yes, HXW has been kind since BD. And I'm glad to keep in touch with SS without having 'family time' with H. It must be bit weird for him that his two X's meet up and are on friendly terms. HXW told me that - whatever happens I'm stuck with them both now.

I feel sad for SS though. He and his dad have always been close, and I feel that H just isn't really there for him right now. He will also miss his friends from our MH, and doesn't know anyone in the city. But I guess all of that is H's problem. I'm just responsible for my R with SS. It was nice though yesterday - when we had all hugged and said goodbye, he was about to get in the car, and rushed back for another hug.

I was at the bookstore this morning, which is always fun. This afternoon, I worked from home on a course I'm doing, then I was Mum-sitting early evening. Just back an hour or so ago and catching up on the boards.

Yes, I would say I do and I don't feel detached. In a practical sense, I detached right away and removed myself from the situation. I have also built up a life here that I am/would be quite happy living. And to an extent I'm more emotionally detached. In a way, I can't even imagine being M to H. But in another way, I'm not yet ready to file for D because then he would just be free to M someone else. That's the bit I need to work on - truly letting him go - it's a work in progress.

Have a good weekend! T x


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Hi Toots

I'm glad you had a nice time at the bookstore. Is the course interesting?

So I always find myself picking out little phrases that people use and wondering 'why did they phrase it like that?' which then leads to another question. Usually im reading too much into but sometimes i think these are freudian slips

where i'm going with this is that you just said

Originally Posted By: Toots
I'm not yet ready to file for D because then he would just be free to M someone else


and your reasoning really jumped out at me. Could you elaborate on this a bit please?

You do seem to have a built yourself a really good life and your mum and dad have got to be really happy that you're so much closer.

Its good that you have a good relationship with SS and I agree with you (a common occurrance i know) that it must be disconcerting at least for him that you and his XW are friends/ly


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Jim, thanks for asking. It may sound a bit weird I know. I mean we have been S for 9 months, and I have spent virtually no time in his company and hardly spoken to him. So clearly I can live my life without him...and pretty happily too - and I'm sure it would only get better.

I suppose (and I'm a bit ashamed to say) that if we remain M, he isn't actually free to M anyone else. That's the one thing he can't do while we remain M. I know we have no R now, but I still find the thought of him M someone else hard. Because if he is M to someone else, that's not something I believe we can come back from.

That's part of it. Another reason I don't file, is that I don't think I should give up on our M because the going got tough. I want to know in five years time that I did all that I could, and feel at peace with my part.

But also I feel that in order to file for D myself, I need to feel truly done, and be able to happily accept the fact that he may well go straight off and marry someone else..

Does that all make sense?

Last edited by Toots; 04/17/15 08:42 PM.

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It does indeed.

You do seem pretty happy in your life and it will get better, but in the ways that you want it to.

The reasoning of not wanting to be Divorced because you want to know you tried everything and stood for your M is good. Having that kind of peace i think is probably a good thing.

Definitely until you feel ready to accept it then i dont think it makes sense to file, particularly under the UK system, but thats just my personal opinion.

as for the 'so he cant marry' aspect thats just something to be cautious of as it drifts into the territory of trying to control him.

Again its only my own opinion but whether he wants to marry someone else I'm not sure matters in the scheme of things, because the marvellous Toots deserves someone who wants to be with you and wants to share in your life. If its short of that then it doesnt matter whether its a just short or a country mile short - You, Toots, deserve better.


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100% agree with Jim Toots deserves someone to love , value and appreciate her. I've said it before but that man is one lucky fellow.

I fully understand standing for your M and that's for Toots to decide

Take care Toots Rd Xx

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Agree 100% too that our Toots deserve better, much better after all the work she has been putting in to became a better person.

But this better for Toots may be her WAH. I have seen and hearing so many stories about folks that separate and after some time get back together, even folks that D and remarry.

In the love war, anything and everything is possible.

Michelle is indeed a genius... we do need to feel better about ourselves, so the books tells us to shake things a bit, change out hair, lose weight, start new hobbies, exercise and on and on. As we feel better we start smiling more, being more light spirited. As we go through this path we can see that if our S is not there, that it is not over, we can live a satisfying life. In the process of getting all this knowledge, we are developing ourselves into better individuals.

So we learn a lot of what to do and what not to do, we became more kind, gentle... we become someone only a fool would lose. So, in a way it is a win, win preposition.

Toots are you seeing an IC? If not, maybe you could get a few session only and try to get some of your issues worked out. I am not saying just the M issues. I remember you posted a few days ago about struggling with the "shame" that you don't even know why you feel so much this way.

At the end of the day, we all agree: "Toots deserve someone better"...

You have a nice weekend too.
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Originally Posted By: Pink17
I don't know if it is good or bad, but I stopped blaming myself as much and start seeing the damage that is being done by my irresponsible H.

Hi Toots!

You have been such a huge help to me and so many others. I can tell you are a wonderful woman and I think that Pink's attitude is how you should try to view your situation. Of course, it is never easy for us to stop blaming ourselves, but I feel this one is on your H.

Sounds like you coud use another (((((Toots)))))

Please take care. We are thinking about you. I will say a prayer for you tonight.

Bob


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Jim, thanks for picking up on the 'so he can't marry again' theme. I agree it isn't a great way to be thinking. Much better to stick with the healthier reasons for standing for our M. The strength rather than fear reasons. RD and Bob, thanks for the vote of confidence. There's a definite theme there - I shouldn't undervalue myself and settle for second best.

I also agree that worrying about whether he would remarry again is a bit of a moot point. After all, the main thing is whether he is 100% into our Ror not in the longer term. If he isn't 100% in, it doesn't really matter what he chooses to do. I'll get there I know.

Pink, thanks for your suggestions. I can see you have picked up on the 'shame' comments. These are Brene Browns' words....and I can't say that I would have seen my life as marked by shame. But she describes us not feeling 'we are enough' as shame. And I do have that feeling sometimes. I got a bit 'serious' in our M - about being a good stepmum, wife, employee. I'd like to reconnect more with the 'free child' part of me, be more accepting of myself, and connect and have more fun with others. I'm going to listen to her two TED talks again, because they did resonate. Her book is also on the way.

As for IC, I did see someone from Sept-Jan, which was helpful. We got to the point where we were both pretty happy with how I was doing, and my outlook on life. But I certainly wouldn't rule out IC again. I'll give it some more thought....

I so appreciate you all posting to my ramblings...have a great weekend my lovely DB friends. And Pink - if you ever came to London, I personally would be 'tickled pink' and would be on the first train down with my 'welcome' bottle of champagne....I'm sure RD wouldn't be far behind on his bike!

xx


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Oh boy - Daring Greatly by Brene Brown arrived yesterday and I started reading it. I feel profoundly affected by this book, and stayed up reading until after midnight - couldn't put it down. I cried a lot and felt it is a book that I have needed to read my whole life.

She describes that when we take risks (eg: meeting new people) we feel uncertain and exposed - vulnerable. So, to fight those feelings, we strive to appear 'perfect.' Shame plays an important part in this. If we listen to the 'shaming' thoughts we all have, we start to believe that we are 'not good enough.' In fact, we may have been receiving messages that we are 'not good enough' - both from ourselves, and maybe from others - for a long time. And we start to believe them. And so we hide parts of our true selves that we feel are 'not good enough.'

She challenges the myth that feeling vulnerable is a weakness - it is in fact a strength. For when we shut ourselves off from revealing our true selves, we grow distanced from the things that bring purpose and meaning to our lives - true connection with others, for example. She invites us to be courageous - to show up and let our (true) selves 'be seen' - even when there are no guarantees. Gosh, crying again now - what's going on??

I am still only part way through, but I think this is an important book for me - one of life's anxiety prone, people-pleasers with perfectionist tendencies. I'll post more about what the book is telling me, and what I am going to do with it - but for now, I'm just reading, absorbing...(and crying a lot!) Feeling quite raw, but somewhat cleansed too. Underdog - if you are reading this. I'm so grateful to have found Brene Brown, and am interested to know how her work has changed your approach and perspective - or anyone else who has read her books/seen her TED talks.

GAL at the charity bookstore yesterday for me, and languishing in bed with the ipad at the moment. I'm cooking lunch for the parents today and catching up on washing at the 'launderette of Mum and Dad.' Aqua aerobics tonight for me. Have a good day all xx

Last edited by Toots; 04/19/15 08:44 AM.

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Morning Toots.

Its one of the better books I've read and I this thought her TED talks were good. I took a few really good points from it all and there's a lot of crossover with NMMNG.

What I took away is the subject of a much longer post buy long story short my avoidance of direct conflict is a symptom of the shame I carry for not believing im good enough.

Glad the book means something to you.

Have a great day


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Hi Toots. Hope you having a good day. Take care. Rd

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might have a watch of those vids


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why are tears rolling down my face after watching that vulnerability tedex frown


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I was just the same OTU. And cried on & off for hours when I started reading the book..lots of food for thought in Brene Brown's stuff isn't there? It's made me feel I'm starting a whole new journey.

((OTU))


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Well folks - not much happening with me today. It was a beautiful spring day here - the best so far. I worked from home until around two. Then walked into town to get some stuff, and had an ice cream on the way back. Went up to the parents to Mum-sit early evening, and back at the appt relaxing now. I'm working away tomorrow, so that will be a busy one..

All quiet on the H front - no contact at all since I had his text from the US....I haven't been fretting about it too much. The only thing I do find is that I'm half-waiting for divorce papers to just be in my mail slot one day. Hopefully he would actually tell me before he filed for D, but you never know....

Other than that, I'm still reading the Brene Brown book and taking it all in. I may re-read that one with a pencil in hand - she is great, and reading her stuff is a potential life-changer. I have been conscious today of 'being enough' and it has helped me relax more and worry less about what people may think of me - I just am...

Hope everyone has had a good day xx


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Yay Toots. You sound great today. Looked up the book, might get it too, sounds like a very good one.
The "waiting game" is the worst lol, but I'm sure after all you've been through you have plenty of patience for this part too.
Seems like a few peaceful days here in this part of the forum. Hope the good vibes stick around for a while before all our D madness begins lol. Knock on wood.
Have a good rest of the day Toots.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
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Hi Ttoots , sounds like a nice day , the book seems to be really connecting with you. Don't be thinking about D papers , that's not positive thinking !

Toots is not only adequate, shes awesome , I don't know if you realise how much you help others with your kind but insightful words.

Take care. Rd. xxx

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Morning (((((Toots)))))

I know what you mean by the mail slot, even now if Im working from home and hear the postman crunch along the drive (its gravel) and the postbox will it be a pile of legal papers.

I think its just an evil weavel that nibbles at us because of uncertanty and being positive and coming up with actions seems to help me to stamp on it.

Did sound like a nice day, although what is this iced cream of which you speak it sounds tasty yet bad for the waistline wink

Take it easy my friend, enjoy the sun smile


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Hi Toots,

Going back to the shame part, not feeling good enough, is something I am still working with my IC. He said that some people, like me, are very perfectionists and they are very hard on themselves, like me, and they are probably their worst enemy.

I find it a bit true, my worst criticism comes from myself. I am glad you are taking the time to think over these things. It shows growth and it will just make you a better person then the amazing one you are already.

The whole waiting socks I know. Hope you a busy enough that it does not affect you much (or much more then it is already doing). Sometimes I would like to be some kind of XMen professor and go into your H's toughs to find out what is going on with him.

It really makes you mind reading why he is postponing the D papers, why is he so quite, why he does not communicate. I know we should detach and do not think much of what we can't control, but I can't help thinking that he is very mixed up right now. His toughs are cloudy and he is in the fog.

We share the whole dating ordeal from the guys in this board, it may not be just so easy for our WAHs. O well, we just need to be patient and care for ourselves.

Hope Toots is being nice and gentle to herself.

XOXO,
Pink


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Busy day at work today for Toots. Looks like my boss plans to hold the interview next week some time. Don't know what it will involve yet - I'm hoping he'll keep things pretty low key as he has known me for so long.

I made a decision today that I should ask my landlord about bringing our elderly cat here. The general terms of the rental contract say no - but I thought there's no harm in asking. I did and he said that was okay! So my plan is to go up next week and bring her down here. I texted H to let him know and to ask him if he wanted me to wait until he and SS have said their goodbye's. He hasn't replied yet.

Otherwise, working from home tomorrow. Lots to do after a hearing today. Then yoga GAL tomorrow evening. What a beautiful day today. I avoid the motorways on my drive to work and take a lovely rural route. Lambs playing in the fields, enjoying the sunshine....

Hope you guys are having a good day :-)


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Glorious weather today toots. Make the most rain on the way.... For North west anyway by Friday frown


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Great news re the cat. Toots now has roommate and can make her cat comfortable in her autumn years. Glad you had a good day

Take care. Rd

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I miss my cat frown


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Thanks RD and OTU. Yes, I'm an animal lover, and that has been one of the hard aspects of the sitch - seeing the impact on them too. I'll be glad to have her here. She is actually 20, so more in her 'winter and then some' years. I left her in situ, thinking it was best for her to be in her own environment. But really, I would like to bring her here and I will just try and do it all very gently for her.

H texted back - all about the cat, and very accommodating - saying I should take this & that for her. And her fur was a bit matted - sorry. And just to say when and he'll let our pet care know. Then just ended that he hopes I am well.

It's weird with our text exchanges. There's this big 'unsaid' thing. He suggested we D. I said that wasn't what I want, but wont stand in your way. He said he needed a week to think....and that's about it a month+ later - oh well... So, as Edz would say - I'm keeping on keeping on. Or as I would say - keeping the forward button pressed. Enjoying the spring time.

Have a good day all! xx


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Hi Toots. 20years old ,wow , I have 4 cars and that's 4 to many sometimes!!!!!!

It willl be great to have her with you and for you to be able to give her all the love and care that' she needs. I'm an animal lover myself and have promised the kids a puppy in the near future.

Re your H. From my point of view , he now has options I think you were right to let him know that you would be interested in a M in the future and I feel that he was unaware of this He now has to decide and that possibley has made in own future unclear. If things with OW are rough and life is not what he thought it would be lthen who knows how he feels.

All Toots can do is to continue living ber life and learning who Toots is. The book you are reading sounds great and you have seen a lot of yourself in it , just don't be too quick to label yourself Toots is Toots , unique and very special Flawed ,
Maybe !!!! But still great.

Take care. Rd

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CATS AT HOME , CATS !!!!!!!!

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Bft says a warm mrowwww to all forum fluffy people and to toots bawft especially wink


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Thanks RD and Edz....fellow cat lovers. Well, I'm just quickly checking in before I head out for the evening. I'm off to a wine tasting and quiz with the ladies social group tonight. Looking forward to it.

Busy day today. Mum sat first thing. Then logged on to work. I'm doing a lot of stuff with pensions at the moment, so I'm just trying to get my head round all of that. This afternoon I went to my training to be a poll clerk at the election in a couple of weeks, then more work and out tonight. It's always good to have less time to think about the sitch. I'm bookstore GALing tomorrow, then Mum-sitting later.

Feeling a bit Bleugh about H at the moment, and not that positive about our sitch. Not that down in myself, but not optimistic about 'us.' Logically I know anything can and does happen, but it's not always easy to stay positive about what 'is' happening. Oh well - I'll go and drink wine with nice women and not worry about it. Have a good evening all! xx


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Hi Toots. Wine and women. Can I come please ?? I hope you had a great evening. Take care. Rd

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RD, you are welcome to come and drink some wine with the ladies any time! They pursuaded me to come to their next event - a pole dancing lesson. Now that is definitely pushing out of my comfort zone! Seriously though. I had a nice time, and they are a fun group of people. One lady asked for my number and said she'd love to meet for coffee some time - so I think there will be some nice new friends to meet.

GALed at the book store this morning, and logged on to work this pm. More pensions stuff. Then up to Mum & Dad's and now home with a glass of wine.

I've been reflecting on whether it may be time to throw in the towel and file for divorce myself. I had hoped that we could formally separate and deal with financials. And that was looking hopeful for a while, but seems to have stalled. Just mulling things over really. For sure, I'm pretty happy with how life is turning out here. And I don't feel much love towards H right now. Then on the flipside, my M meant a great deal to me and I don't want to give up too soon. I guess I feel I should give things a year since BD, which would be July. But I am starting to feel that I may want to move on, I won't do anything in haste though...just journaling really.

Have a nice evening all xx


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Well my goodness toots that sounds interesting smile

Any definite days to get Baft yet and do you have the requisite fluffy mouse, cat bed and tuna?

Remember dogs have owners, cats have staff! wink

On your thoughts as I've said many a time (and am planning on putting on a shirt) our sitches are different but remember I felt like that last month give yourself some time and keep on tootling of course if you feel its all run as far as it can you should very definitely go on with filing, the fact you're asking seems to me to mean you dont think thats the case.

Of course you also know how I tormented myself over those thoughts so I know right how that feels.

(((((Toots)))))

Keep on keeping on

smile

Last edited by edz; 04/24/15 08:59 PM.

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Hi Toots. Pole dancing , comes on !!!! Wine and women was a great picture but now !!!!! Excellent Well done ! What's next ?

On the H front , I completely understand , you have given H every chance but does there have to be a certain day you say enough. I would think Toots
Could continue to live her full life but maybe introduce a small bit of dating or male company ? Just my thoughts Toots. You are fantastic , if I wasn't already seeing Pink !!!!!!

Take care. Rd. xx

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Originally Posted By: Toots
Feeling a bit Bleugh about H at the moment, and not that positive about our sitch. Not that down in myself, but not optimistic about 'us.' Logically I know anything can and does happen, but it's not always easy to stay positive about what 'is' happening.


This. Exactly this. Toots. So hard to stay positive when there is so little contact.

I see you are thinking about filing yourself. What would that achieve? Would that signal the end to you? How would that align with your previous message that "D is not what you want"?

If I am reading things right, then your and my H will have difficulty filing as they won't want to be the ones who officially end it. We're eligible to file in a couple of weeks. I doubt my H will (but then I once doubted that he would leave me so....)


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Thanks guys. Yes Edz - I guess I'm just mulling over, and appreciate that no sudden moves is a good plan. Who knows what things may look like this time next month?

RD, I guess my motivations are more financial/practical than wanting to date. I just don't feel much desire to date right now. I think I'll be happier just being single for a while and enjoying new friendships.

Gan, we're in a similar place in lots of ways (apart from the A in my case.) I agree that our H's may not file. In the UK, my H would have to file on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour until July 2016, so that may put him off - or he may just be avoidant/wallowing/still medicating or distracting with OW or other dates - IDK.

I just feel we've reached an impasse on finance/housing:

He asked could we sell the house. I said yes, as long as it's part of a full financial S.
He said he didn't think we should fully separate finances unless as part of D process.
I said D isn't what I want, but I won't stand in his way if this is his choice.
Then all stops, and he needs to think - since mid March..

Now, I'm trundling along financially, and can surely cope (if I get this job) for a good while. But I'm not dealing with the fact that he continues to use our MH & city flat whilst I have to pay rent. All as a result of his infidelity. That's galling, but I could do it. I just don't want us to be in an unhealthy situation of avoiding dealing with stuff that should be sorted - like having a largely unused main home etc..


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just a thought toots could you rent it out?


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How to get from here to there?

There are several options, sell, rent, use or leave empty.

The course you are on is a holding pattern, but if that is what you want and need then Toots it's ok!

Of course it is. H is an in the middle kind of guy.

I am so glad about the cat, 20 is a good age, Big G was 20, my little Khalua black was 24 and jasmin the white fluff was 19, whilst Thomas was 23. There is a lot of love in older cats and they want companionship, food and tons of sleep. I have no puss cats at moment but I may have another or a small dog. I know this will be great for Toots and a worry gone.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Thanks Edz and V. Edz, I would consider renting. I haven't suggested that to H at this point. He has a negative thing about renting and I suspect he wouldn't want to...but I'll bear it in mind and see how things go.

You're right V. It doesn't matter all that much if the house stays emptyish for a short while - as long as things are looked after. I've decided to go up there on Monday and collect puss. I'm looking forward to having her here. I'm not really looking forward to visiting our MH. Last time I went, it was horrible. I had been erased, and I snooped and discovered text for email to OW professing love - which was horrible.

But, it has to be done. Quietish day today. I shopped this morning and volunteered at the bookstore this afternoon. Then a quiet evening in, watching period drama - my favourite - and H was always scathing about them. Sometimes it's nice to be able to do your own thing! My interview is confirmed for Thursday - so I'd better do a bit of work for that next week. Don't want to be caught out by any curve ball questions!

Have a nice evening all xx


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SS 15
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Evening Toots. So I catch up on your thread and there's pole dancing!!!!

The UK system for divorce is a bit odd in the whole two years thing but equally the advice I had was that ultimately the fault stuff doesnt make much difference. It may be that your H has decided he wants a D but he doesnt want to say Toots has behaved unreasinably - he would then be stuck until the 2 year point (although obviously he could always say something to you)

If im reading it right it seems like your ok with giving your H more time in terms of the M and not giving up completely on that but that your patience for the lopsided financial arrangements is wearing thin.

Originally Posted By: Toots

He asked could we sell the house. I said yes, as long as it's part of a full financial S.
He said he didn't think we should fully separate finances unless as part of D process.
I said D isn't what I want, but I won't stand in his way if this is his choice.
Then all stops, and he needs to think - since mid March..


Just a suggestion but could you force the financial issue again. with something along the lines of

'Dear H,

I'd like us to start working on a financial settlement so that I can get more settled where I am and buy a place of my own.

Could you let me know how you would like us to take this forward.

Thanks

Toots'



Its not talking about the divorce specifically and its much more in line with you saying you dont want a divorce (if you really wanted you could even say that again but i'm not sure thats needed). You never know it may prompt something one way or the other and if he still doesnt respond then you can take another step to be more active, and I suspect another non response will make you feel more comfortable with another step.

Aside from all that jazz you sound great as ever and Well done on getting an interview (although you knew you would) it will go brilliantly im sure


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Hi Toots,

It's a very difficult situation right now. So, it's about putting Toots first. There is nothing to think about your H. What he wants or does not want is not your problem. It's about what Toots wants.

You can always say that if he can't agree on selling the house, you are thinking about going back.

Toots, if you can afford to live well without the D, then wait a little longer, as you said, it will be a year in july.

I served the D papers because: 1. I can't survive with my pay alone. 2. I was afraid that H could put a lot of extra charges on our CC spending extra w/OW, I would be responsible for those charges as well. 3. We can separate our finances and I can move forward with my life without fear.

If you don't have any trouble waiting, then what is the rush, maybe it is just the feeling. I am in this kind of cycle too, time is going by and nothing really happen.

Remember that if he is some kind of MLC, it may take 1year or 1 and a half year.

The only thing is that you guys don't have much interaction. Is there any possible way to have some coincidence? Some way to test the waters and find out where he is at now?

Besides, you sound good. You seem to always have a good head on top of your neck and that is admirable. I hope you feel a little more at peace, but I totally understand since we are going through the same time line in our sitches.

Dance poll... That's one I never tried. I think it's a bit hard tough. Let's us know how that goes.

Love,
Pink


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Thanks for posting Jim and Pink - good to hear from you..

Jim, I quite like your idea on finance. I'll give that some thought. It would be a way of giving things a little prod - and I could see what happens. H can be quite avoidant, so he may well have his head stuck in the sand. I can either ignore that and carry on my own path - or press further. I just need to think about which I want to do.

Pink - thanks for your thoughts too. Our sitches are different, and I think the crucial thing is kids. I can be less cautious as there is only me to take into account. And if I get this job, I will be able to sustain renting in the longer term. Although the situation isn't very fair, it is possible, and if it helps to save our M, then that's what I may do.

As for prompting some contact? IDK. I certainly don't want contact to discuss our situation. But it could be possible for me to be 'in the city' for some reason and ask if he wanted to meet for a drink. TBH, I feel a bit scared. It has been so long. I know it might be helpful for him to see me. But how would I handle it? And I worry about what I might find out... I guess I would feel happier with us chatting by phone as a pre-cursor - but that seems harder to engineer, given our current sitch...

Dad has invited me to lunch today, and I'm off to aqua aerobics tonight. Then puss tomorrow. Have a good Sunday all xx


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Afternoon Toots

just checking in after a busy couple of days.

Fair point on renting, you certainly dont want to engineer some conflict on it of course. Maybe a house management service to handle all the rental kerfuffle and risk, I liked Jims post as well.

As to not wanting to meet face to face initially are you in electronic contact fb messenger, text, email etc where you could craft a possible invite along the lines of you'll be in the city on x day since you're arranging things for BAWFT and (other bits) would you like to grab a coffee and we can discuss how things are going. Leave it open and not close off what you can talk about?

I'd also advocate the "talking to the sofa" (and often baffled looking cat) option to work out what you want to discuss and how you feel about those things. It helps to not feel so awash with rogue feelings when you first start talking again or it did me anyway.

(((((Toots)))))

Have a great day and I hope you have some of this nice sunshine.

Last edited by edz; 04/27/15 11:46 AM.

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Thanks for dropping by Edz. Well, a successful mission to collect Puss. I've emptied the car, she has had a wander round, some food and a brush, and is now reclined looking very much at home. I wish I had asked my landlord if I could bring her months ago now.

Had a tiny snoop at the marital home. Not difficult as H had left his emails up on screen! Seems he is emailing a woman in the US now - a friend of his sister's. It was a bit of a weird email actually - Philosophical stuff in there and with comments about how interesting her facial expressions are. Sounded like they had had a meaningful convo whilst he gazed at her face. Doesn't sound like an R as such, and I'm not too upset about any of that. But I do realise that he is still in a wayward mindset, which is good to know. And I guess I don't feel like engineering a meeting knowing that. I am going to think about the financial side of things though, and Jim's suggestion in particular.

One funny thing though. Last time I went his desk was full of papers. This time, he had completely cleared it apart from a couple of items. One was a list of his friends we made together (shortly before BD when he said he had no friends and was feeling lonely). We put each of their names in a little cloud, and I suggested he might keep in touch more with people who love him - Mrs Fixit in full flow I know. He had kept that...

Off to the pet store now. Have a good evening all xx


T 13 M 7
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Excellent news on mog cat Toots, you two have a great evening smile


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I sent the financial message, broadly using Jim's suggested wording (thanks Jim.) I'll let you know how things go...


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Hi Toots,

Very interesting facts. Like you said, the email doesn't seem like a R, so H is just lost, looking for a way out of his own mess.

He needs more time, and unfortunately it means more time for you on a waiting. On the positive side, it is also a sign that things are not working or didn't work at all with OW he had before.

He may still be feeling lonely, lost and trying to have reasons or he is in MLC, what will take some time to get back into his senses again.

Oh well, at least you have your fluffy cat now and he seems like a very gentle one.

Take care,
Pink


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Hi Toots, I'm glad you liked my suggestion though if it goes badly in going to quickly deny all knowledge :p

Either way I'll be fascinated to know his response and irrespective I think it will help you keep moving forward.

Change tack slightly, why did you say ur shows he us still in wayward mindset? Weird and philosophical doesn't immediately make me think wayward so just curious what it was that made you think that.

I hope your cat settled in nice and quickly and you enjoy the added company.


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Thanks Edz, Pink and Jim!

Pink, OW is somewhere in the mix still (I think.) On H's desk there was a to do list from before his US trip a few weeks ago. On it there was - buy card for OW, and post letter to Toots. I get to share a space on 'to do' lists with OW/XOW now - ugh..

Jim, I said wayward because although I found the email a bit weird and philosophical, it was also flirty and clearly interested in her, and written by him late at night. I think he's still very much in pursuit of attention from other women.

Well, puss had a good first night and seems pleased to be here. She sleeps a lot, and is very slow now, but nice, gentle company. I'm volunteering this morning at the bookstore and have some work to do this pm. Have a good day all! x

Last edited by Toots; 04/28/15 06:23 AM.

T 13 M 7
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Morning Toots.

That makes more sense. I will say though that flirty may also just mean sad and lonely, rather than 'wayward'

Though if that were the case he could attempt the far more obvious solution of flirting with the marvellous Toots

Last edited by jim0987; 04/28/15 06:52 AM.

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Hi Toots,

I agree with Jim, more like sad and lonely, anything that boost his ego will call his attention. The hard reality for him is that it is not hard to find someone to flirt and have a few good moments, but commitment to a real life with the heavy demand of so many obligations, that's a different story.

He is vulnerable now, show his good side to please company and in a way of doing that may feel pretty empty. These long distances flirt or R just show he does not want to commit to anything, instead he is in pain and looking for himself.

Since the beginning you picture him as a person that does not face the challenges head on, so it will probably take him some good time to organize his thoughts and find his life line.

Toots is doing what she must do to survive all this turmoil. She is taking good care after herself and growing a lot as a human being, as a woman, a lover, a wife. You are an amazing person and with all what you have been learning and understanding, you H or any man in your life will find a strong R with passion and love to share.

We all love you Toots, and we wish you the best always, with your H or without him. I hope he wake up soon and see what a marvelous Toots you have become.

XOXO
Pink


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Thanks Jim and Pink. Yes, I can see your point. It may be more sadness and loneliness - who knows? I realised who she is today - I have met her. She works with H's sister and is an unlikely candidate for him. Similar age (not miles younger like OW1) and quite plain looking/academic. I can't imagine she would entertain a flirtation from him, particularly as she will be aware of the circumstances. Her reply was a one liner I seem to recall...

Well, I haven't heard back from H - radio silence. I've had an okay day externally - volunteering and work this pm. But internally I have felt pretty low and hopeless about our sitch. Probably just a reaction to the MH visit and reading that email, plus waiting to hear back on finances. I'm sure I'll perk up in a day or so.

Thanks for stopping by - I so appreciate your feedback, kind words and encouragement xx


T 13 M 7
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Hi Toots,

Our sitch happen same time last year and I am feeling a little low regarding my sitch as well. I think it moves like waves. It is also because it hits some time of no contact, no news, no nothing and that is agony.

Like Edz said, it's only time will tell what is coming next, but the itch of waiting is troubling for all of us. At least you are not alone, sometimes I cry because I miss my H. We have many times of talking, making plans, sharing life and now we are so apart from each other. It hurts.

But we can't control anything about them, we just need to take one day at a time and do our best to feel and look good.

Hang in there, tomorrow will be another day, another opportunity.

((((((((Toots)))))))))

Pink


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Hi Toots. You seem to be going through the roller coaster at the moment. From what I have seen this is normal and to be expected. Your trip home for puss would have been hard on you emmtionally even if it did not seem like it at the time. Seeing Hs emails would also be unsettling

On the plus side you now have puss and Toots is becoming an amazing person.

I do believe that most of our WAS will regret their decisions because most of us have grown into people that deserve a partner that wants to be with us and loves us. Toots , I have posted my heart felt thoughts about you on here before and every post I read from you shows what a kind , caring and great person you are.

Toots deserves happiness and she will find it.

Positive thoughts Take care. Rd

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Hi RD, thanks for your kind words. They meant a lot to me last night after a bit of a low day. Last night I lay on my bed and pounded it with my fists like a two year old having a tantrum - that helped a little. l started the morning with a loving kindness meditation, and that has helped too. I'm going to have a better day today, and start to think about reframing things.

In the longer term I think it may just be a choice for me:

Accept that H is unlikely to agree to what I would prefer in terms of formal separation and financial settlement, and carry on as we are for a while...

or, take control myself and file for D...

I think at the moment I just need to work on my own frustration because it isn't helping me to feel this way. So I am practicing a little more compassion towards H and his current situation in order to release myself a little more if that makes sense.

So, hopefully I'll be reporting back on a better day today. It's true that going to the MH throws me off balance. But on the plus side, I hopefully get back on the wagon pretty quick too. It's interview day tomorrow, so I'll do some prep today and log on for work too. Yoga class this evening.

Have a good day my DB friends xx


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(((((Toots)))))

I can understand the MH thing Toots. Before I moved out whenever I went "home" I was surrounded by the memories just in the layout (I know you said contents had been changed at your MH) once I moved out that stress stopped and since I'd done some heavy lifting rearranging things for w before I left and she and MIL consequentially moved everything else around its not quite as bad when I go there, now its better of course as long as the sitch stays on the up.

So I understand how the place echoes in your mind when you go back.

I completely get the frustration aspect as I hope you can imagine, I'm pretty open on here and I think ive come across sometimes as ready to eat my way through the matress let alone pound at it, you are completely right that the one thing you can 100% change any way you want is you and you can be calm and relaxed as I know you almost always come across as being so here smile

If I had to put one name to the common feeling Ive had throughout this process its frustration, at myself for any part I played, at w for not talking or giving me signs on what she wanted, at myself for goofing up. It's, well, frustrating!

Sounds like the meditation and reframing are THE way to go, dont forget Puss too, stroking a mog cat will lower blood pressure which has been proven, get a nice grooming kit and set some time aside (and if she's like the BFT a hoover, bin bags....) and get some serious mog cat time in there smile

Enjoy your day (((((Toots))))) sure you'll ace tomorrow smile

Edz


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
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(((Toots))) I think the low is pretty normal after visiting the MH. Both H and I moved out of our old place so I have no reason to go back there fortunately. I can tell I have major issues with the place - even driving near the area brings back a lot of negative feelings in me. So much bad energy there now.

Yes, I have been trying to return to the compassionate place lately as well. I think the Relationships meditation is the closest I can get to loving kindness meditation using the Headspace app. I've started it twice but find I end up lost in thought about my sitch. Are you able to use your H as the object of your mediation?

(looking forward to seeing what you pull out for you next thread title!)


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Thanks Edz and Gan. I had a much better day today. Went off into town this morning, did some shopping and had coffee out, whilst doing some prep for my interview tomorrow. Logged on to work after lunch to find my formal interview invite, and that there is a short presentation to be delivered.....so you can guess how I spent my afternoon!

Edz, I'm enjoying having puss here. She sleeps alot, but loves being groomed, so we've had a number of rebonding sessions with the brush. You are right about frustration and impatience. Neither are useful for us. And I realised I am putting stuff on H - 'he hasn't come back to me again' - when I can also think ' that's me being impatient and feeling frustrated.' So, I'm just trying to reframe things. I also started a gratitude journal today.

Gan, the loving kindness meditation is a Jon Kabat Zinn one. He has three apps on the app store, linked to his books, and I have them all. The meditation starts with feeling unconditional love for yourself, much in the way a parent might feel for their child - and basking in the feel of that self-love and acceptance. Then it broadens out into feeling that love for someone who you may be finding it harder to love. I did try it with H and it seemed to go okay. Towards the end of the meditation it broadens out to love of your community and those within it, of animals, and blossom on the trees, and the world.

I felt very peaceful afterwards. Well, I'm off to yoga tonight and then working away (plus interview) tomorrow. Have a nice evening all xx


T 13 M 7
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H Toots. Just a quick post to wish you all the best for tomorrow Positive thoughts flying your way. Take care and the best of luck. Rd. xxxx. ( two extra for luck)

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Hi Toots,

Hope everything is going well today with the interview, keeping positive thoughts your way too.

And a big ((((((Toots)))))) for you. I feel that if there is some time you could go back into some sessions with you IC maybe it would help to deal with the frustration and impatience.

We can say that it is normal, part of the process, do meditation and feel a little better. But it is inside us, and it hurts and triggers depression.

I know you are smart and a balanced person, but waiting, being on Limbo for so long is torture. So, why not get some extra help for awhile until things get better. I find it is very helpful for me to talk to someone I can be completely honest.

Hope you are having a good day honey. You deserve it. Nice about the cat, he will give you a lot of love.

XOXO
Pink


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Evening Toots. How's things in the slightly more west West Midlands?

Being frustrated is normal. When I ask people relatively straightforward questions which require an answer and they don't give it - its frustrating!!! Its how much we let that bother us or affect us that we need to concern ourselves about.

I find adopting a default position helps, and I don't mean in a standard revert to way I mean more of a 'I will take the absence of an answer as.....' Way.

For one of my work things I've got to corral a whole load of uninterested people and get them to agree. I only really made progress when I openly adopted the policy that silence or absence will be taken as explicit agreement with whatever I decide. Suddenly they started engaging.....

On that front I don't think your options are as you are or file for divorce, you have an alternative in being more forceful in pushing the finance. So you could email him and say

'I've asked my solicitor to start drawing up a financial agreement so we can proceed with selling the house. If you have any particular views then let me know, if not I'll get a draft to you when we have something'

If he can be entirely passive should he choose and you still start progressing only the things you want to progress. Just a thought so feel free to ignore me.

Good luck with the interview. Is the presentation done? You'll be great and ace it I'm sure, but if not as everyone seems to agree with you I'm sure you can get a job as deputy prime minister!!!

(Gotta love 5 year old satire smile )


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RD, thanks for the good luck wishes and extra lucky kisses - just what I needed!

Pink, thanks for your thoughts. I will think about more IC. Mostly, I'm doing reasonably well, but I don't cry that much or get that angry recently, and I don't want to be suppressing stuff. Seeing a cllr does help release some of the emotion I think.

Just back from yoga and had a nice phone chat with my old neighbour. I had hoped to see her Monday when I went up, but she was away. She told me that five couples (including us) have S in our road this year. No-one S the whole time I lived there (5+ years - sad...)

Jim, thanks for your ideas. I knew I was going to be challenged on the - well, I only have two options comment. And your idea is a really good one. I read it and thought - wow! I truly wouldn't have thought of doing that, and it just goes to show the value of these boards. I don't need to shut up and put up or file for D, I can just start progressing things in the direction I want.

All is quiet anyway right now, and I'll give things a week or so for him to respond. Failing that, I may just start moving things in the direction I want as you suggest. I agree with you about that dynamic. As he tends to not come back to me, it is better to go with the - I'm moving forward with this, if you have any views let me know by X - otherwise I'll assume you're happy - genius! It's funny, I deal with that kind of scenario at work all the time. Just wouldn't have thought of doing that here!

Thanks guys - you are friends indeed. Now then - what to wear for tomorrow...x


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Evening toots just in and heading for bed but in case you're off early tomorrow best of luck though I'm sure you'll ace it


((((Toots))))

Edz


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M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
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Hi Toots,

You may not see this before your interview...but good luck to you.

XOXO

Bob


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Hi Toots thinking of you today. Positive thoughts flooding your way. Toots has this. Rd. xx

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I'm confusing my time zones, Toots, but if your interview is still en route then big hugs and kisses to you and good luck!


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It's mid to late afternoon now so

How'd it go?


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Indeed we are all anxious to know shocked


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
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Thanks Guys - I got the job! I hadn't realised, but there was another candidate too - and they liked him, just not for this role. I start with them Tuesday.

I received a big email from H this morning. I didn't look at it until I got home. But he wants to go ahead with divorce. This thread is about to lock, so I'll start a new one and post what he said there.

Thanks for your good wishes xx


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Toots,
You need to start a new thread. They begin locking threads at the 100th posting/reply and this thread is going to be locked soon as it has 105 replies.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Congrats!!!


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