Zelda - almost there

[Zelda09]

Breakfast was productive. I am glad I did not wait in purgatory. And I got my answers and no I didn't like them, but since we hadn't ever talked about it - I needed that and am glad he was honest. I recorded the convo and went back and listened tonight. And the day ended with one of the strangest human interactions I've ever had from another human being, pretty hysterical actually.

V, you are right on point about all.
I got these gems from H:

"I did care about our M, I did mean everything I said, it was always my goal to make you happy. I meant all those things. But you being so angry over the errand was the straw that broke the camels back. That's what I meant when I said I hope it was worth it to you."

"I think you wanted to cause me to do this. I think people need to understand how subconsciously they want to be treated. (OMG are you serious??) No, I'm not saying you wanted me to treat you like this. But what did you expect."

"I know it was wrong, I've been talking to people about it. I didn't apologize because I just didn't care at that point, wasn't interested, I'm done with apologizing to you."

"No...it's not that I don't believe people should have expectations of each other or be able to express anger. But I just can't deal with your emotions. You trigger this stuff in me."

"No, I don't remember ever saying stuff about wanting to see other people when I came home. No, I don't think I said that. No, I don't remember that either about "not trying to divorce you just yet. No, I never thought about being out of this M, I was trying all along."

"Yeah, maybe if you had let it blow over. That was my version of dedication. I thought we would just be miserable like that and that would be our lives and I would be steadfast whether we talked about anything or not. Our counselor told you I process slowly, I wasn't ready to think or talk about it. (in response to whether or not he needed me to be the bad guy)...no he would have never called it, he said. (In truth, he didn't before BD the first time, either. Just became withdrawn and nasty and man I beat myself up for how I reacted.)

"The timing was eerie that you kicked me out the day I picked up the check. It made me think you were in it for the $. I have that paranoia, too, you know. (I told him I'd have let it blow over if that was the case. WTF. We talked about it that none of it was legally touchable in the event of a D - what was he talking about?) IDK, just seemed strange. NO, I promise this had nothing to do with the settlement, no that wasn't my motivation. But it did enable me to not be here when I didn't want to anymore."

"No, I don't see me as a victim. But you kicked me out. No, I'm not saying you didn't have good reason to, but you haven't left me a lot of room to make any other choices."

"No, I haven't considered how you felt. I've not been trying to think or reflect about any of this, or I would have talked to you about it then, afterward. Now I'm trying to get on with my life and see people. No, I'm not trying to date. I've never cheated, ever. Yes, I'm trying to go out with girls. I don't want to be in a relationship. yes, I do want to sleep with people."

Despite ALL of this, (V - to your point above) I still had a breakdown when it came to the D papers on the table. Just told him I wanted to do it on a day I didn't feel so emotional about it. I asked him to sign the letter of intent instead and he said he would, but wouldn't without someone looking that over for him first, although it seemed straightforward.

So I asked if we shouldn't take some time and just be separated and a chance for him to get his feet under him and reflect. He said that was fine, he wasn't trying to push me into anything. So I asked if he would hold off on the sleeping with others thing while we were S and the answer was a firm no. He gave me a week of fidelity if I wanted it to revisit this and decide if I wanted a separation while he acted D, or whether I wanted to file. Because he admitted he might have regrets, he might wish to be with me again, but thought this was 95% the right path.

So no, I thought to myself. 'Z, H doesn't want to be with you and he said it in many ways and you have your closure, despite all the claims of how into this M he was trying to be. Those aren't the actions or attitudes of a man who cares, no matter the pretty stories you're hoping to tell yourself.' Z doesn't want to be with a man that she can 'cause' to act this way and wants to sleep around now. If casual sex is more important to him than some time to reflect on what he's done, go forth, H!

"H, no, whether I am ready to do this or not, I am listening to what you're saying. I would only be wasting my own time. I can sign today if this is what you want."

"Just like that?"

"Yes. If you're intent on sleeping with others within a week or two, I'll be just fine with signing today."

Yet, when we got to the notary, he refused to sign my separation agreement/letter of intent even tho he'd told me he would at the house while he was packing up. I refused to sign D papers without it. So he said he'd have someone look over my letter and he would do this again. Unbelievable.

I do want to examine what is wrong with my head that the D papers...after every straight answer I asked for...upset me so badly. That I was trying to bargain about it. Tall, beautiful, magnetic H with that great eye contact and all of our history. I was trying to hear the points about how much he once loved me to have tried for six years and not the rest of what I have written above. After an hour I felt like he might really have had some points. I read these points from my transcript and realize I was just getting worn down.

My M is over. He is driving the bus on this and I'd be nutty to want this in my life when he clearly doesn't want to think let alone change.

1. I can't fix/change him. Only me.

2. I need to stop trying to blame myself for not doing better DB/DR and preventing this all from happening.
------

Here's the funny story now. I was sitting on my deck chair, headphones on, and my neighbor across the way gestured for me to take out earphones. I don't know him well. He called out asking if I'd ever been offended by him, because sometimes I wave and say hi and sometimes lately I won't even act like I see him.

I burst out crying hearing echoes of my H telling me how not in touch with people I am, how I don't understand my own emotions, and just apologized to neighbor D and said no, it was just me, I'm going through some stuff. He apologized and went in his house. And then walked through my gate ten minutes later from the front (first contact) and gave me a big hug. I blurted out my H left me. He then told me his gf had been upset about him always trying to chat me up, and I took a step back and asked him if they communicate. He vented, said they're moving out of town shortly.

Then told me he was a world famous porn star and I could look him up by such and such name. That he was glad he came over, he'd thought about it so many times earlier, bc I needed to know what a goddess I was, my legs, his GF was right, and he was sorry for everything I was going through. (overly crazy, complimentary talk. what he wanted to do to me if we were both single, pretty vulgar.)

"Gee D... that's sweet. Thanks for coming over, I needed to hear...some of that. Go home and tell your GF you love her and work out your communication. Good luck to you."
_____________

I am exhausted. What a day. I do believe I have my closure.

I'm sure H will have someone look over the S paper/LOI and tell him it's harmless and we'll notarize both documents. He was asking me at breakfast just to tell the judge at time of hearing I wanted the QC, he'd agree, and it would be written in without 'complicating' it with my document. I said I don't know that's how it works and neither do you. I want it in writing. He promised up and down he wasn't trying to hurt me and didn't want this house. I just don't trust him.

[Ggrass]

lol to the neighbour.

I too have had a few say I would do you too. Must be a bloke thing.

Some of the stuff up the top your h said was script, my h said the same apart from he's totally the victim and entitled to act out via the a! As I caused the whole shite pile and I could keep it.

Just know he's more than likely hurting and taking it out on you. It's not really about you, while if feels personal it's not really.

[Zephyr]

Hey Zelda, looks like your h provide d one thing today...that he is a fool. We are all imperfect and there are so few things that I can contour in my head that would not allow me to work things out with the one I love.
Will send extra prayers for you tonight!

[Vanilla]

Z

I agree with Gg on this. H is feeling sorry for H, poor H and his pity party. He is trying to move the responsibility for himself to Z. This is an appropriate use of try!

He has his settlement and wants fun and happiness, or his version of it. Which of course will be empty and when he discovers that then it will also be down to Z. I also have reservations on the fins, and prefer to get everything pinned down and in writing.

This is very fast S and D indeed. It might have taken your H a number of abuse cycles and Z being firm "I will not be abused" before H recognises he is an abuser. You know you can still stand for as long as you want and that is ok. Z stands for Z and her principles until she is ready to leave her M behind.

The cycle need not repeat for Z As long as Z recognises it and runs a mile from any frog who pretends to be a prince.

My only concern is for Z on this one as closure isn't all it's cracked up to be. There will always be open questions when we mind read. I am glad you recorded, I believe it's a good strategy in abuse sitches, but unhelpful in others.

Z it will be alright in the end and if it's not alright it's not the end, besides the fat lady hasn't sung.

((((((((Z))))))))))

V

[Vanilla]

Z

Sorry fat finger syndrome, my edit took too long as I was thinking. duh!

H is reluctant to accept he is an abuser as it does not suit him to do so and the fact may be damaging to him. Reality is tough to bear and abusers only face it after consequences for behaviour. H ending up with the result that he would like is reward not consequences. So his actions have few hard consequences for H and in order to restore himself to his own high opinion he will have to self deceive, blame Z and rewrite history. To be expected, he will counter what he believes are your views and statements to others.

I am glad you recorded your conversation, I believe it's a good strategy in abuse sitches, but unhelpful in others. In general when we ruminate recording others is problematic as it causes looping. In abuse sitches then it becomes important as shock can cause us to doubt our reality. If this helped you clarify then it was a good choice for you Z.

V

[Zelda09]

Question from a DR perspective. But first, Thanks, Gg for the reassurance. And Vanilla for your take on it all.

There's a big part of me that wants to stand and hope and be a good DRer - am I out of my mind??

1. Exhibit A - H's signs all long he was immature, manipulative, that I was dragging him. Now he'll protest and say he wanted this, but eh. He was never really fighting for this.

2. Exhibit B - what I call a lot of emotionally
Abusive/twisting/denial. I know. I love him anyway. He said he took responsibility for handling things but still claimed I arouse this anger in him too much through my own style of confrontation. Is there hope for change even if he sees it someday? And is the excuse the same next time?

3. Exhibit C - complete lack of remorse and interest

4. Exhibit D - wanting to see and sleep with others.

How could I possibly stand for my marriage? And have any self respect? I dread those papers and finally saying its over and I don't want to sign - but I think we've had years of this and it's getting worse.

I just feel miserable not being able to let it go and feel like this is right.

[Zelda09]

What would waiting on signing that stuff actually accomplish for me?

[Zephyr]

It will buy you time to think and to be sure you are doing EXACTLY what you want to do for your reasons. Maybe your mind is all made up, maybe you are tired of it all, it is understandable. We just want for you to be sure of what YOU want to do.

[Calibri]

2. Exhibit B - what I call a lot of emotionally
Abusive/twisting/denial. I know. I love him anyway. He said he took responsibility for handling things but still claimed I arouse this anger in him too much through my own style of confrontation. Is there hope for change even if he sees it someday? And is the excuse the same next time?

Z-as someone whose husband had blamed me for arousing all the anger in him......know that while parts of you may trigger or push his buttons, you are not responsible for his reaction. He makes a choice in how he reacts with his anger. I'm reminded of what someone once said here, "blame is a way to discharge pain and discomfort."

As for the rest, you have to make the decisions that are best for you. No regrets at the end of the day, you know?



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[Zelda09]

I wanted some time to process this. But not while H runs around getting herpes. I was hoping he'd take some time but he is clearly not interested. So at that point, I fear I am hurting myself by standing Alamo style in a losing battle with someone who's not interested in being with me.