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Thank you for this thread! I learned a lot about how to deal with future "dinners" with W. I'll have a better idea of how to prepare myself and deal with what happens.


M: 8 years, together 9
M: 41 W: 32
D 4, S 6
ILYBINILWY 2/10/15
2/14/15-2/22/15 Left home
4/5/15 Suspect A, Initiated Sandi's advice from WW thread
4/19/15 W asked for D
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Hopefully my example helps SadDood, I know I didn't do a lot of things right.

I was thinking about the W this morning. Having another one of my mental conversations with her. Trying to think about how things may play out should we enter the D phase.

I think I mentioned the one time I was at church praying, asking to let my W come back home. It was about that time that I was contemplating changing the locks. While I was praying this voice from the back of my mind said "If you change the locks, she can't come home."

So in the shower this morning thinking about the W and the voice comes back and says "W was never the type to reach out to anyone." Which is 100% true. She would often complain about her sisters and her nephew who she grew up with and is more like a brother to her than anything would never call her. I would suggest that the phone goes both ways but she would come up with some excuse that she didn't want to bother anyone, so she wouldn't reach out even though she might have really wanted to.

So after my shower I'm continuing my mental talk with her, discussing finances, hearing her say things like "how could you do this to me", answering with "you did this to yourself, you walked away from contracts that hold you financially responsible..."

In the middle of my mental conversation with her, I feel like I'm getting angry and having an arguement with her and then I hear my phone get a text.

It was her.

She asked about a password for a login that she (1)used last month and (2)is one of my common passwords that she is VERY familiar with. I tell her I have to look it up and to hold on a bit. I find it and text the password back and my first reaction is to leave it at that.

Then I remember that voice saying she doesn't reach out, so I ask how she's been doing. She replies with a "Thanks!", that she's doing ok and that she's out of town for work for the week. In an area of the state everyone agrees is one of the prettiest places to visit but we never did.

She quickly followed up by asking how me and the cats are.

I had asked if it was still cold there, followed by how I'm doing good and some of the weird/cute behaviors the cats have been showing.

At this time I headed to work. So I didn't get the next text until 30 mins. had passed.

She told me that its nice there but still patches of snow here and there.

I ventured to ask what one of the famous landmarks in getting to where she is was like. She said it wasn't that big or scary. I mentioned how everyone makes it out to seem that way...

And that's where it stands. Because I know she was the type to never reach out, I want to ask her if she's still willing to have lunch with me. I can rationalize that it's not actually asking her to lunch, but just asking her if she's still willing, and maybe it'll open the door to her actually asking for a day to have lunch together.

I say was because the common knowledge around here is the WAS is different than the person we're used dealing with. I wonder though, has she changed enough to break through that wall she's had up most of her life, I doubt it.

She seems to check in almost every 2 weeks. She should know that password like the back of her hand. She used it last month. It feels like it's an excuse to reach out to me. Last time it was a client died and she didn't want to leave things unsaid, last two times before that she wondered how the cats were doing. She seems willing to casually chat. Our brief exchange seemed friendly enough.


Me:33 W:34
T:13 M:8.5
D mentioned & S 2/13/15
"We can never get back together" 4/2/15
Visited & Mentioned she hasn't filed 4/20/15
"I want to have cats back" 5/4/15
Served D papers 5/8/15
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You handled it well. Next time tell her that you're out and you'll have to get back to her later. Show her that you have a life.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Miman2

I also hear answers to my questions when I pray, it started within the last 2-3 months or so when I found God in my life. The person I was before DB would have been very skeptical against that type of thing and while I have faith in it now I cant fully explain it. I don't always hear the answer I want, but they are all pretty consistent even when I'm experiencing different/difficult emotions.

I also play out conversations all the time aswell. Could be with W, IC, others, but it happens all the time. However, I have a habit of having the conversation out loud (when alone) instead of silently in my head. I wonder when that will cause me issues...


Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
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Thanks MrBond and Fogg.

So do you find the answers that come to you to be true Fogg?

I think I've heard it 3 times so far and each time they have made total sense. Although this time it's REALLY tempting me to try and reach out to the W to see if she wants to get lunch together. :-/

Just letting some thoughts out here...

It's always bittersweet when I do hear from her.
I always feel like I was just getting to the place where being S didn't hurt quite as bad, and then she pops up. After that it's a huge backslide in the PMA.

Felt really alone last night and this morning. NMMNG mentioned something about getting to where you're okay with being alone. I didn't date much when I was younger. I went out once or twice with a couple of girls but never anything long term, never anything serious. The W was the first.

Being alone is frightening, I don't want it to be my new normal. I don't want to end up alone forever.

I know I shouldn't need to have someone around to be happy. To be content.

There are times where I'm okay being alone, but it's just that. Just okay. Not frightened, not panicked, not really happy or ecstatic. Just okay.

Maybe it's just that I'm still in the middle of the sitch. Maybe I would feel happier being alone if I wasn't in the present sitch.

How does one build a self-esteem so large that they are happy no matter what?

It seems to me that in order to get to that point you have to adhere to a "let go and let God" type of mentality. You have no control over anything other than yourself, so don't worry, be happy. As long as you're happy with yourself, making sure your needs are met, and looking out for yourself you can be happy?

I suppose my views of relationships has been wrong for a very long time. The W and I would see couples who seemed to barely want to be around each other, compared to us. They seemed to share only 1 or 2 interests, and they seemed to be perfectly happy not spending time together. To us that seemed sad and we felt that maybe they weren't meant for each other.

After reading though a lot of material on relationships it seems that's the healthiest of relationships. You like the person, you like being around the person occasionally, but you're perfectly happy either way, with or without them. You also have to be detached, you don't control them, you don't save them. You listen to them when they have a problem, and validate their feelings, but you don't solve their problems.

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head completely around all that. I get the part where you don't allow your happiness or your self-worth to be defined by someone else. But that kind of relationship just seems so... distant and uncaring to me.

It sounds like you just tolerate someone enough that if they're having a bad time you're there to lend an caring ear. It doesn't sound much different than what I would consider just a friend.

And if that's how I'm supposed to interact in a relationship how am I supposed treat a friend then? I would say friends are a layer removed from someone I'm in a relationship with.

Is the only difference between a friend and someone you're in a relationship with intimacy?

There has to be something more than that...


Me:33 W:34
T:13 M:8.5
D mentioned & S 2/13/15
"We can never get back together" 4/2/15
Visited & Mentioned she hasn't filed 4/20/15
"I want to have cats back" 5/4/15
Served D papers 5/8/15
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,902
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Originally Posted By: Miman2
Thanks MrBond and Fogg.

So do you find the answers that come to you to be true Fogg?

Verdict on that is still out, and I may never know. Most of questions/prayers before were asking about W but it does help me get through the day.

Will I be OK? "Yes"

Is she going to come back to me one day? "yes, but only IF she can work out her own problems, this is something she has to do for herself".

Why is this happening, "You both needed this to change".

What should I do? "Keep moving forward and work on yourself"

Does she love me still? "She will always love you in some deep place in her heart, but may never show it again"

More recently I realized I was asking the wrong questions and went to...

Will I take her back IF she comes back? "NO, not at first, might not at all" This one bothers me the most.

Again, I can be completely calm and don't mind my M being done for now and I get the same answers as when I'm panicking and want her back more than ever.


I think I've heard it 3 times so far and each time they have made total sense. Although this time it's REALLY tempting me to try and reach out to the W to see if she wants to get lunch together. :-/

Just letting some thoughts out here...

It's always bittersweet when I do hear from her.
I always feel like I was just getting to the place where being S didn't hurt quite as bad, and then she pops up. After that it's a huge backslide in the PMA.

Felt really alone last night and this morning. NMMNG mentioned something about getting to where you're okay with being alone. I didn't date much when I was younger. I went out once or twice with a couple of girls but never anything long term, never anything serious. The W was the first.

Same

Being alone is frightening, I don't want it to be my new normal. I don't want to end up alone forever.

I have the same fear, my father is basically alone right now and it terrifies me to end up like him. He keeps so much bitterness from my mother when they were together and his other marriage that failed several years back. More nice guy issues I need to deal with.

I know I shouldn't need to have someone around to be happy. To be content.

There are times where I'm okay being alone, but it's just that. Just okay. Not frightened, not panicked, not really happy or ecstatic. Just okay.

Maybe it's just that I'm still in the middle of the sitch. Maybe I would feel happier being alone if I wasn't in the present sitch.

How does one build a self-esteem so large that they are happy no matter what?

It seems to me that in order to get to that point you have to adhere to a "let go and let God" type of mentality. You have no control over anything other than yourself, so don't worry, be happy. As long as you're happy with yourself, making sure your needs are met, and looking out for yourself you can be happy?

Maybe, time will tell for all of us. Its a learning experience, something we need to get to. I keep getting told I need to be happy with myself also and I hear it, but at times I don't know what that even means. For me still living in the same home I cant experience much of that independence yet. I will say it does excite me at times. Me and W have been together since high school and I had no relationships before then. It feels like Ive never had a chance to be free, so for me maybe this is an experience I need. Think of it as God giving you some opportunity to do something you don't even know about yet.

I suppose my views of relationships has been wrong for a very long time. The W and I would see couples who seemed to barely want to be around each other, compared to us. They seemed to share only 1 or 2 interests, and they seemed to be perfectly happy not spending time together. To us that seemed sad and we felt that maybe they weren't meant for each other.

After reading though a lot of material on relationships it seems that's the healthiest of relationships. You like the person, you like being around the person occasionally, but you're perfectly happy either way, with or without them. You also have to be detached, you don't control them, you don't save them. You listen to them when they have a problem, and validate their feelings, but you don't solve their problems.

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head completely around all that. I get the part where you don't allow your happiness or your self-worth to be defined by someone else. But that kind of relationship just seems so... distant and uncaring to me.

Same. Maybe the relationship we have with ourselves really is more important, but we have ignore it so much we don't even know what it is? Maybe when we discover that relationship and inner happiness things will become clearer. I'm trying to pursue this but it does confuses me also.

It sounds like you just tolerate someone enough that if they're having a bad time you're there to lend an caring ear. It doesn't sound much different than what I would consider just a friend.

And if that's how I'm supposed to interact in a relationship how am I supposed treat a friend then? I would say friends are a layer removed from someone I'm in a relationship with.

Is the only difference between a friend and someone you're in a relationship with intimacy?

There has to be something more than that...




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Journaling:

Bit of a tough GAL day today. Started the morning feeling a bit down/depressed. Barely got myself up to go work out this morning.

Went out to the Japanese meetup group. For the first time since I started going I met some new people and didn't talk about my sitch with them. I don't know if it made my day any easier or harder. On the one hand we were talking a lot about various things, on the other hand the sitch was right there on the tip of my tongue the entire time, spinning around in my head. It was like it was taunting me, just wanting to be blurted out.

Not a whole lot to report after that. Went walking downtown a bit. Looked at a couple of shops. Went looking for a new laptop for work, got a haircut and came home.

I suppose I have more reading to do. I've been reading through the NMMNG and for every idea/comment that I feel like I can get on board with, I find at least one other I don't. I'll probably read codependent no more next and then move on to models.


Me:33 W:34
T:13 M:8.5
D mentioned & S 2/13/15
"We can never get back together" 4/2/15
Visited & Mentioned she hasn't filed 4/20/15
"I want to have cats back" 5/4/15
Served D papers 5/8/15
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 202
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So there was a question posed on another thread about why a LBS would want a WAS/WW back.

The first thought that came to my mind was "because I love her".

Then I had to step back and really think about it.
Yes, I am upset at her for walking away.
Yes, I'm angry that she doesn't want to work on things and instead just walked away from her problems.
Yes, I'm angry that she went on vacation with the OC and still continues to see them.
Yes, I'm upset that she doesn't seem to want to handle her fair share of the debt we have.

Maybe it's silly but this is how I feel about her:
Google Image Search: "Love is caring for each other even when you're angry"

Through it all I love her and can forgive and move past all of this. I still care about her. I wish only the best for her and her well being. I worry about her. I know I can't fix her or rescue her. But I still want us to be each other's life companions. Kids or no, she's the one I see a future with. One of our first dates we drew a picture of our "dream house" in the mountains, on a lake, surrounded by animals. Maybe the reality of the picture has changed but when I think of the future I still see her in it.

That doesn't mean I can't find or won't find someone else to build a future with. But she's the one that I feel safe with. That no matter what, any and everything else that pops up in life will be okay as long we have each other. We've made it this far overcoming obstacles together.

Just before I finished graduate school the SIL and BIL came to visit, and one of the things they said was they were so incredibly proud of how we made it. We moved more than 1500 miles from home and survived on our own for (at the time) 6 years without any family and initially no friends around. No car, less than $2k between the two of us, living off a graduate student stipend, more than half of which went directly to rent. Not only did the W finish her undergrad and grad degrees before I finished, she even landed a really good full time job, right out of school.

We went from having nothing of our own to having a life and everything that comes with it (BILLS!?! >.<) but we made it. Without mommy and daddy around to run to should something bad happen. Sure, we had our bouts of bad luck, thankfully we had friends around to help us when we really needed it.

The first car we had was hit 2 weeks before Christmas our second year here. Most people had gone home for the holidays, thankfully we had 1 friend still in town that helped us out.

Unfortunately, this time the obstacles we're ourselves and neither one of us had the foresight to do anything productive about it.

Yes there are things we need to work out. Yes right now our R is a mess. But when I lay my head down for sleep and I think about my W, I still love her.
I'm more than willing to go through any and everything I can to get us back to where we could tackle anything.
Unfortunately for me, she's not at that point. I don't know if she ever was or will be.

Is this reason enough to want her back? Maybe not.
But it's reason enough for me... because deep down we each still care about each other.

That's part of the reason I've been asking what exactly a "healthy" relationship feels like. I can read about how to have a healthy relationship but it feels wrong and distant. I think it was codependent no more that mentioned something about something feeling wrong/uncomfortable is okay because it signifies change.

Maybe the S is what a healthy relationship should feel like, without the pain of being separated or being in the sitch. I care for her, I want the best for her, but there's nothing I can do to or for her, maybe that's why we're supposed to focus on making ourselves happy because that's what we were supposed to be doing in a relationship. The only difference would be the other person would be around, we would be speaking our love languages to each other, and supporting each other...

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


Me:33 W:34
T:13 M:8.5
D mentioned & S 2/13/15
"We can never get back together" 4/2/15
Visited & Mentioned she hasn't filed 4/20/15
"I want to have cats back" 5/4/15
Served D papers 5/8/15
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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My thoughts are that you're still thinking too much about your W. Regardless of what you believe true love to mean, etc. She's still gone. Turn that introspection back onto yourself and your values and what you are going to do to continue to grow.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 202
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She just called. She's on her way to the apt. to pick up some more stuff. What do I do? Be busy, don't say much to her. Work on my own project. Don't follow her around. Do I help her with stuff or no?


Me:33 W:34
T:13 M:8.5
D mentioned & S 2/13/15
"We can never get back together" 4/2/15
Visited & Mentioned she hasn't filed 4/20/15
"I want to have cats back" 5/4/15
Served D papers 5/8/15
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