Where to begin?

[Dawgs]

Thank you. I need all the help and prayers I can get. I really hope that you are right.

It is so tough at times that I don't know what to do. One of my issues is that I read entirely too much into things and overthink them. That is something that is hard, hard for me to overcome.

I can only keep working on me and hopefully she will see that my changes are for real and not just words.

Good luck, Cherry! Hope it all works out for yo!

[Cherry]

I'm exactly the same- I'm a big overthinker and worrier. I'm working on that- trying to find the positive attitude I used to have.

That's all we can do.. Create our positive attitude and hopefully, God willing it will re attract them and make them realise they would be an absolute fool to abandon this person. But I think it will take some time for them to realise the changes are genuine and we aren't just having a good day, or trying to coax them back.
I love the lighthouse story in cadets welcome post.
They are all over the place, so we stay calm and cool, yet loving and fun.

[BeginningAgain]

So, her telling me she wanted a divorce was an eye-opening and soul searching event for me. Its as if it made me do a 180 because I came to the realization that I didn't like what I had become and I don't want to be that anymore. One of the things that she has said is that she is afraid that I will revert back to the old ways. I hate those old ways - but, and partly due to that childhood of hers, she doesn't believe that I can change - in fact, her words yesterday when that topic was brought up was "I feel that he is making these changes because his back is pinned to the wall." What I wanted to tell her is that all of this made me see a lot of things in myself that I don't like and I am working on myself to become a better man.

This ^^^^ is good stuff. Why didn't you tell her this? I think it's something you should share with her, especially in a counseling type environment. In fact you could even precede it with something along the lines of validating her fear that you are just doing this because your back is pinned against the wall. I.e. "Wife, I do understand why you may feel that way, however this situation has caused me to look within myself and as a result I see a lot of things in myself that I don't like and I am working on myself to become a better man, Husband and father." Just my 2 cents.

BA

[Dawgs]

Being an overthinker and worrier makes this kind of stuff that much more difficult. I think that may be one of my own toughest nuts to crack.

The lighthouse story is plain awesome. Love it! I am trying to be that lighthouse in the calm of this storm. Some days are better than others. But, in order for me to be that lighthouse, I need to really get myself in order. It is a difficult thing to do, when at 45 years old, I finally had to come to terms with my past. That I did not like to do - but I had to in order to become a better man, father, and husband.

Its been roughly 3 or so weeks since she mentioned D. After she said it, I took a long, hard look at myself and did not like what I saw. So I got my own counselor who gave some solid advice. When things get tough, I repeat "I'm working on me" to myself.

So, I would like to think that after that time I have made great improvement in myself and maybe she is starting to realize it. Who knows. I just have to keep doing one step at a time and show her. Hopefully she will come around. But I know that she is scared that I will revert back. The trouble is how to convince her...

[Dawgs]

This ^^^^ is good stuff. Why didn't you tell her this? I think it's something you should share with her, especially in a counseling type environment. In fact you could even precede it with something along the lines of validating her fear that you are just doing this because your back is pinned against the wall. I.e. "Wife, I do understand why you may feel that way, however this situation has caused me to look within myself and as a result I see a lot of things in myself that I don't like and I am working on myself to become a better man, Husband and father." Just my 2 cents.

BA

Oh, I did tell her that. She comes back with you can't change - its who you are. See, her childhood and all has built up these "trust walls" that are so hard to break through. Once in, it's awesome - its getting back in that is hard to do.

[Wonka]

Hiya, Oct.

My response to comments from people who say that "people can't change" is this:

People are not static. People can grow and do evolve if there's a desire to do so.

Leave it at that. I did that with Ms. Wonka and I think it actually planted a seed in her mind that people DO grow and change.

[Underdog]

Oh, I did tell her that. She comes back with you can't change - its who you are. See, her childhood and all has built up these "trust walls" that are so hard to break through.

Oct, this is one area you're going to have to go with us on. Less tell, more show. It's not enough to say stuff. You have to leave the words stuffed down inside and just make a plan to DO. It may take quite awhile for her to take a step back and realize that the dynamic has changed. Or then again, you may get the opportunity to have a conversation about it long after the changes take place.

This means that you don't look for affirmation at what you choose to do to change. You just DO. It's like the definition of a hero. A hero is someone who does something extraordinary when nobody is looking. I might have read that on a bathroom wall somewhere...

It takes time to turn that boat around. So do what you did as a kid on your bike - when you skid, skid IN to the slide. Let her express her issues without judging and use your validation skills. Wonka has a thread here that you should read to help you understand how and when to do this.

Her trust issues are something she has to work out for herself. If she wants to heal that wound. I also have trust issues. Yet... I also want an intimate relationship with a man again. Intimacy can only be present where there is trust. The onus is on me to manage my expectations and build those moments. If it's not there, I have to enforce MY boundaries by letting go of people I don't trust.

The only thing you can do is to tackle that list of gripes she has about you. Sit down, make that list and then add a column for examples where the character flaw has hurt you and others. Don't do this to create a tool to flog yourself with. But use it as an illustration of what you could do instead. Learn how to make good choices by working on your patience and compassion. Learn how to build in time to react less and weigh out consequences. Give others the benefit of the doubt. And actively work on forgiving others and yourself.

None of this is easy. And it might not reconcile your current M. But she'd be nuts to think that there is someone else out there who would be more willing to change when their back is pinned against the wall. Use this as your time to grow and grow up. We've all done this work, and you can too.

Oct 2.0 can be a much improved version of Oct.

Betsey

[Fogg]

Oct, your getting some great advice so far, hope its helping. I love the lighthouse story also, its helped me so much in my darker moments of fear and panic.

With MC, and everything else really, developing expectations can cause your emotions to plummet when things don't go how you secretly want them to. Watch them and try to resist as much as possible. Try and keep an open mind that things will get worse before they get better, and anything is possible.

With me, I thought MC was helping so much until I realized W had OM in her heart and was only going to the MC so I wouldn't kill myself. When she told me she was done after 2 sessions I thought things were over and I was in a very bad place.

Realize no matter what happens, even if you divorce, things aren't over until you decide them to be for you. No one knows what the future holds, so control your side of this and let her control hers.

[Dawgs]

Thank all of ya'll for the great - and I mean great - advice so far!

Now let me ask a question - concerning the people can change issue discussed a couple of posts up, should I bring up the subject and mention something along the lines of what either NewBeginning or Wonka said, or - since I have said something to that effect before - should I just not mention it all, kind of like Underdog said?

I know that - as Underdog said - its more show than tell, but I just don't know if I should even bring up that subject or just continue to do what I am doing and not say anything???

[Dawgs]

So, another update. I can't take this shite...

We were texting and the subject of the session came up and it she brought up some things that included the "people changing" bit mentioned a few posts up.

So, I said somewhat of a combination of NewBeginning's and Wonka's post and she responded with this (word for word):

"I did not say divorce to cause a change. I said it cause I was done. I cannot stand the thought of hurting you but I know this is an uphill battle. I don't know that I want to fix this. I have told you that I do not want you to be confused by my intentions. My goal was to go to see if I can find that spark to help me. I hate that it came to this E and I do not want anyone hurt. I know that is not possible. One of us will be either way. Please, lets talk through the week (*our next session is Monday*)and figure this out one way or another."

What on earth am I supposed to think about that? It almost seems as if she would be relieved if I just put up the white flag, but I am not sure...