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#2552744 03/31/15 12:24 PM
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flip flop, flip flop...

W has just called me and was 'relatively' nice on the phone. She said she doesn't want to argue. Says she understands I miss the kids and it is hard for me. Says that things aren't going to be like this forever, that maybe in a month or so we could make other arrangements. Says that S6 is playing up for her. I validated her a lot better than this morning when she was raging. I did point out that maybe since our kids haven't really seen me much in the last 2 months they are missing me. I did not accept the premise at all that it was them being with me that has caused the children to misbehave. As already pointed out, if anything their exceptional behaviour with me may have only highlighted in the children's minds what they can get away with at 'home'.

She claims she wants to have them settled, be a good mum, do what's right for them etc but that just seems to mean I have to do whatever she wants. Anyway, we have agreed 2 nights for me with another day of picking them up from school and dropping them off after tea.

Finally, finally, we might be getting to the next point of this saga, the point where I hope things do start to settle down, particularly her anger. I am moving on with my life slowly but surely. I am contemplating going out tonight once the kids are in bed (my parents at home too, don't worry, I'm not abandoning them hahaha) to a pub quiz where hopefully I will make some new friends. I think W is stuck living in perpetual anger/confusion for the moment.

I think if we get a few weeks of stability under our belts, a few weeks without any major disagreement, then slowly things may make a turn for the better. I can imagine a scenario where if I just get to interact with W briefly on good-ish terms then things may turn out a little better. I thoroughly expect them not to though, what with the dragon lady in the background pushing all the buttons. I do see big blow ups along the way. However, I have developed a new attitude. Whereas before I would have got angry, ranted and raved back at them, now I am calm and their criticisms/demands/crazy rants are water off a duck's back. I do need to not get drawn into calm debates though. As MWD points out in DB, that can just be a different form of the same thing.

So, after dealing well with the last 24 hours, but ultimately not sleeping well due to the stress of it all, I do once again feel fine. I no longer feel that aching urge to contact W every day over something or other. I do feel detached. It has taken me 2 months to get here, and a truck load of heartache along the way, but I do feel good now! Now it's time to shine!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Ok you have made zero progress on the know it all, I am better than my wife issues.

You can either be happy or be right.






It's not about just not SAYING anything to her about it, it's truly about not feeling that way anymore. Until you make progress the marriage will be doomed.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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I understand it appears that I am unduly critical of my W. I guess I am, but it is not without validity. How do I reconcile things in my mind that I believe are not just annoying or different to how I would do them, but fundamentally wrong for our children?

Our children used to walk everywhere, had few sweets, little-no fizzy drinks etc. My wife now has really gone overboard on reversing those things - they get taxis or cars everywhere, little-no exercise with her, conveyor belt of biscuits/sweets/fizzy drinks. Their manners are also becoming worse (no please or thank you).

Things like leaving socks around or not washing all the dishes etc I could live with, but how do I reconcile those fundamental issues?

I did think writing that last post out I might get some criticism from people. I guess this is similar to the story in DR about the women who critcised the H for not spending time with their kids, and when he did she criticised him for not doing it her way. I really do understand that. I don't want to be the know it all, I want to be happy. Just this last week there was a UK study that showed how a third of children under 5 years of age already had developed cavities in their teeth. Having my children's teeth fall out won't make me right or happy.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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If you feel that ONLY you are a good parent then why haven't you gone to court to get 100% custody on the basis your wife is neglecting the kids?

Ok this is going to be harsh but I am just pointing things out for your benefit.....

You REALLY don't want to change/see your own flaws, do you? I can tell you one thing, if you treated/viewed ME like you do your wife I would run the other way so fast it would make your head spin.

I believe you said a few times you spoil the kids with 100% attention.... Guess what, as a stressed out mom with 1,000+ things on my mind my H giving the kids all the attention and then the kids coming back demanding the same treatment from me when I had cooking/cleaning/whatever to do would make me want to explode!

Here in the US there is a term called "Disney Dad". It's used to refer to divorced dad's who get to do fun stuff with the kids while mom has the responsibility and then feels guilty......


Ok, more on this later. I have to go to "work"...

Let's just put it this way, I see your point but I understand your feelings aren't going to do anything but cause harm to the marriage.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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...... Disclaimer......
I'm not trying to be argumentative...
I'm here to help you save your marriage NOT validate your feelings...


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Every single person on this forum could post saying, "alpha, your right. Your wife is a horrible mom. Your so amazing. What's wrong with her"

Would it save your marriage? NOPE!!


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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You should make it clear to your kids that they should behave at the mom's as if you were there. And you will know if they don't. Layout your expectations of their behavior. You may not be with them as much but you have to be a full time parent anyway. It may require corrective actions when you see them to reinforce that you are serious.


Me:49 W:45
M:19 T:22
EA confirmed and ended 8/2014
S:19,17 D:9,5
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I take on board all your criticism. You're right, saying I'm better than my W doesn't solve anything. I do believe there are valid criticisms of her but I need to find better ways of expressing my displeasure, and on many occasions of course biting my tongue and saying nothing at all.

W is still in contact with OM. I know this for sure. We were at parents evening and as ever she was on her phone. I caught a glimpse of her sms list. The second one down (so second most recent) was OM.

Later on outside I said I had seen her phone and asked was she still seeing OM. She was angry I had seen her phone but answered she isn't with him, he hasn't been to the house, and they are just friends. She said I had a cheek asking. I said when it comes to who is around my children I believe I have a right to know.

She is very mistrusting of me. She talks of my constant threatening behaviour, which is ridiculous. Twice when upset I have said I'd expose her affair. Not in weeks have I done that. If I say anything that doesnt agree completely with her then I'm threatening her and being nasty in her eyes. She hesistated over allowing me having the children at the school, saying I had an evil look. She said she couldn't trust me, her dad said she shouldn't trust me as far as she could throw me, that I might run away with the kids. Does any of this sound crazy or is it just me?

I did take the kids as it turns out. Not before she was going to call her folks to see if it was alright. She vented her anger once more, I largely just took it, validated it, said again I've no hidden agenda. Ultimately we agreed to try and be nice with one another.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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My post above was from a few hours ago.

Since then we've had an update. W called earlier under the guise of saying goodnight to the kids. After doing so she tells me she has fallen out with her mum.

She was the nicest she's been in weeks if not since BD. We talked a bit and it turns out her mum isn't happy (understatement alert!!!) I'm minding the kids. Her mum, controlling schemer she is, would rather I didn't exist. So W going against her wishes and her not having control has meant she has spat out her dummy and won't mind the kids for W as planned on Friday. Of course W being nice to me now as she wants me to mind them instead. I said I'd have to consult my calander and let her know if I'm free. I said if I'm not it's not done out of spite. We discussed this and W seemed to understand that to be true.

I think I will take them Friday. I don't want to be a doormat but feel I should make the most of W/MIL rift. By myself having the kids it will only fuel that for MIL smile

I feel without MIL poking her nose in (understatement alert!!!) I'd be a lot further along in this whole thing. What kind of evil person demands her D keep children away from their F ?

I have to take into account before I get carried away that W is still actively in contact with her 'friend', the OM.

Oh, as I'm slowly grinding this out on mobile W has texted 'Hope kids been okay... Hope we can work something out help each other out .'

Any thoughts/advice on what to do?


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Mar 2014
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Sitting in car line so I only have a few moments......

She fired you as her husband. You DON'T get to control who she is around. Snooping to see if affair is still in progress to make sure she isn't "gaslighting" you is one thing but what you are doing is snooping to be controlling.

Honestly, I would have had the same reaction your wife did to the snooping. You DON'T have any right to control who she talks to, hangs out with, spends money on.

Have you thought about an IC? You have some major control issues to work on.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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I should be clear. She had the phone at all times. She was waving the phone around and I just saw her screen for a second whilst it was in her hand.

I thought it may have been wrong to ask about OM and W with regard to me so I framed it around the kids. For all her mistrust of me, I pointed out I don't know who is around my kids. She has said previously OM is loud and proud about watching porn etc. whilst I'm interested of course in whether A is active or not, I do have genuine concern about who is around my kids.

Don't you think I should have asked anything?


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Sorry, but unless they are in physical danger you no longer get to decide who is around your kids....

I learned THAT very quickly.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Hard to swallow but point taken. I guess that works both ways too. Should our R not work out, and somewhere down the line I meet someone else, W would have no say in that.

Right now kids are laying in the bed next to me. How I wish I could look after them every day.

So what now for me? W wants to be friendly. That's fine, it's better than fighting all the time. She's still in contact with OM. Is there anything I should do about that? I am GAL and doing things for myself, I just wonder if I should be doing anything else to aid things? I'm doing LRT, and stopping the chase seems to have stopped the damage. She seems intensely focused on her new life though. If we get on in our brief exchanges that would be good but if she's so wrapped up in texting OM and her other friends and new life in general, I don't see it helping much, except maybe to soothe any guilt she may feel (which appears to be zilch). Maybe I just need to give it time for things to pan out.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
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Alpha please also think about what true love really means.

I did the same thing than you. I made my W feel guilty for things. Little things..big things. Then she ran away from me for complex reasons. Guess what I did. I argued and made her feel bad about it AGAIN. You do the same thing. Is this helpful? Not a bit. Try to imagine..would you want to be with someone who is sooo much better than you..someone who makes you feel worse? It's against every nature.
No matter why our WAS's want to leave, no matter what mistakes they made and for whatever reasons. We are obliged to still give them love. As we have to respect and preserve ourselves in the more extreme cases. But the ONLY true way to reconciliation is respect and love. And love starts within ourselves. We cannot give love when we don't love ourselves and are in peace. You need to work on yourself, become the best you can be, a loving man, father and eventually husband. Get in peace with yourself. Get IC. Meditate. Something. All we hear is W, W, W, OM, OM....




Everything positive coming from within YOURSELF will reflect on the people around you which includes your kids and wife!!

Last edited by Complex; 04/01/15 06:13 AM.

Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Thanks complex, your post is excellent. I suppose I have spent so much time previously 'being right' that I didn't stop to realise how my wife would see that. The other side of the coin, as you point out, is no one would like to feel inferior. I understand that...I just never considered it that way before.

Wow, what a realisation. I do need to work on that. I feel I'm moving to a better place. I'm less emotional right now, less reactive. I see good progress. I need to work on respect for my W, and also have her develop respect for me. I've read elsewhere that before reattracting my W that she needs to respect me. I'm trying to set boundaries to earn that from her. I sincerely wish this is the turning of the tide.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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I've had W call me a few times this morning. I missed her calls and so then she rang the landline.

When we spoke she was far more pleasant than she has been in weeks. There was no animosity, no fighting, no talking of trust etc. It felt like the turning of a new page. I'm not naive enough to forget that only yesterday she was still being incredibly angry with me. However, this does feel like the beginning of the next chapter.

W rang and texted ostensibly to see that the children were fine and they went to school OK. I think I am earning her trust again. I am now going to have the kids Thursday for a few hours after school, Fri after school and overnight, all day Saturday, and then drop them off Sunday morning. Since Sunday will be Easter, W has asked me if I want to go back to her house after the kids return from church in the morning to spend some time with them on Easter Sunday. I have accepted.

During our phone call she made a point that it is so much better not to be fighting, and so much better for the children not to see us arguing. I agree. In the back of mind I'm well aware that she is at the very least still in contact with OM. Although I come here and my posts are focused on my W and sitch, I do feel I'm doing a good job of starting to move on in my life. I will be working again from next week. I will have the kids on set days. As per LRT I'm not contacting wife but she is contacting me. Her invite for Easter is not a supervisory thing but rather a chance to spend time together with the kids...and her...all together. I'm not getting carried away with anything at all, not for even a second, but this does feel like a turning point. I don't feel the urge to harass her into talks about R etc. I feel for the first time like I could be around her and actually follow through on what I should have been doing for a while, that is treat her like a friendly neighour, no more, no less. If everything from BD to now has been a steady worsening with heavy jolts of worsening along the way, I feel like this is where the banging the head against the wall is going to stop. I feel like now it's time to begin reversing that damage. Let's hope I'm not posting in a day or two to say I've blown it!

Instead of our call ending with the now cursory and barely audible 'bye', it ended with 'OK, I've got to go, see you on Thursday, bye'.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
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hey alpha

Just be cautious. My wife has also invited me around for Easter Sunday which I have accepted to be with D8 and some family time.

She has also been a bit more chatty this week and friendly. hmm

Don't get your hopes up about anything.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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No mind reading / no expectations.....
She could have invited you to Easter for numerous reasons.

Don't think of it as a turning point, just have a good time and leave it at that.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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That's what I aim to do... smile

W has shown no indication whatsoever of having a change of heart or wanting to do anything R wise. As I've said, she is in contact still with OM, within the last week described each other as best friends, and was seemingly in contact with him only yesterday. She has mentioned recently little things that make me think he is holding out on a R with her but using her for sex when he feels like. I also get the impression that she would love a R with him based of her saying things like 'he's a player and he won't commit.' I think she is bang in the middle of affair fog right now. I'm sure her sudden softer approach is simply a result of her having fell out with her mother and needing more help in minding the kids so she can work - nothing else.

The key thing for me will be ensuring the children have a great Easter.

I do 'hope' that some time together without fighting/R talks etc as a family might rekindle something inside her. I have zero expectation of it. I will be cool, calm, no getting upset, no R talks etc etc. I've said that before but now I feel certain I can be bright and breezy without getting upset at some point.

I can see myself feeling low afterwards if things go well over the weekend, as strange as that may sound. I've built up a resistance to the anger she displays towards me. If we happen to have a decent time, I think coming away afterwards would be tough. I am going over and over the bit of LRT where it says if S shows some interest etc not to get overly excited. I know she hasn't shown interest but spending time together and getting on well has the potential to spark some overexcitedness in me. I'm aware of its potential and so I need to develop a strategy for it. I plan to not stay too long with the kids on Sunday at her place, keep interaction with W low, focus on the kids, and leave without dragging things out.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
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good plan


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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. . . and GREAT thread title! grin


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Well, I loaded up my IM app and since it shows the last time that people have logged on I can see that neither W or OM had been online for hours. Now, at this time W would have put the kids to bed, and both are online at the same time, with the few minutes I had a look showing they were on/off, on/off - clearly as they open the app to respond to messages every minute or two. I know mind reading is no good and at this point she can do what she wants, but it still hurts to think that she is (most likely) having heart to heart chats, playful banter, maybe even sending pictures to each other as I type these very words...

I am learning to deal with that because there is nothing I can do about it. I don't feel as devastated as I did when finding out about the affair - after all they would appear to be chatting rather than having sex right now. That doesn't stop it hurting though.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Then stop checking.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Starksy,

As much as I'm GAL, dealing better with emotions and so on, I do want my marriage to work out of course. I'm confused. I know no snooping is recommended when using LRT but at the same time I thought having some info on A status would be a good idea. Of course I could get along well with her (or not) in forthcoming interactions only to find she runs to OM the second I leave. I can stop checking but how will I know if anything I do is having an affect. Yes, I can do things for myself. Yes, I can try and detach, manage emotions etc. How can I tell if I'm being played for a fool - she may be nice to me for numerous reasons (guilt, childminding, whatever else) - but just cake eating in one form or another.

Maybe I'm asking the impossible. Maybe I just need to accept that since she's had an A, we are separated, she feels the marriage is over and can do/see/screw whoever she likes, and that I should just leave her alone bar child communications and just live my life. To a large extent I am doing that. I know that is to a large part the LRT. I just feel powerless in whether or not it will have any affect. I know, I have no control over her. I feel like my actions may be irrelevant with regard to our marriage. Sure, positive for me as an individual, but even though I'm powerless and not in control I would still like things to work out. Times when I think about the whole thing make me.somewhat frustrated. I guess it's time to distract myself.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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GAL activities (hopefully) for the next week or so:

Poker with friends.
Italian meet up group.
Recommence learning/self study of Italian.
Socialise/drink or two with local meet up group.
Begin writing jokes (new hobby).
Visit relatives.
Take children out somewhere nice.
Visit the gym at least three times.
Go for a bike ride (weather permitting).
Go for a long walk (weather permitting).
Restart work.

That sounds like a pretty full week or so to keep me busy. I haven't worked properly in a few weeks due to being overwhelmed with things at times. Of course I need the money, and since I feel better now I will get back to it. The children will also be on school holidays so I may end up with them more than expected, which would be fantastic.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
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Looks like we are all sitting in the same boat. Invited for Easter smile
I don't have anything to your plan. Just don't overthink anything. Just forget about all the things and enjoy yourself that day. That's the best advice I can give.

You are stil too focused on your W. You need to work on this! I went through the same thing. I'm sure you'll get there. There are a lot of milestones, one for me was very recent where I just do not care about my future anymore (R wise) and I know what I want from my life and I got confident enough to know that I can have it. With or without W. Also to understand what love means.
What it basically means is: you stop being reactive, hand over your destiny to God and focus on yourself. Because YOU is the center of all the good things you can do in life, affecting others in a positive way. It's not selfish, it's a start of something greater. So please take the focus off your W. Even off your kids (to a certain extend)..find to yourself!!!
I know you have what it takes.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Originally Posted By: Complex
Looks like we are all sitting in the same boat. Invited for Easter smile
I don't have anything to your plan. Just don't overthink anything. Just forget about all the things and enjoy yourself that day. That's the best advice I can give.

You are stil too focused on your W. You need to work on this! I went through the same thing. I'm sure you'll get there. There are a lot of milestones, one for me was very recent where I just do not care about my future anymore (R wise) and I know what I want from my life and I got confident enough to know that I can have it. With or without W. Also to understand what love means.
What it basically means is: you stop being reactive, hand over your destiny to God and focus on yourself. Because YOU is the center of all the good things you can do in life, affecting others in a positive way. It's not selfish, it's a start of something greater. So please take the focus off your W. Even off your kids (to a certain extend)..find to yourself!!!
I know you have what it takes.


You sound good. You understand it doesn't have to involve what you know as "wife" today at all, and it probably won't. You will choose to be happy and participate in wholesome relationships.

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MIL is pushing the buttons again.

Yesterday W asked if I could have the kids on Friday so she could go to work (double time it turns out) because MIL won't have them - she had threw a tantrum because W had let me have the kids overnight on Tuesday. A chance to see my kids meant I agreed...after some deliberation so as not to appear too available.

No doubt at all that MIL not getting her own way would have infuriated her enormously. The plan therefore set out was I was would have them Thursday for tea, Friday from school overnight, all day Saturday, and drop them off Sunday. W was fine with that.

She texted me earlier this morning to say now that MIL hasn't seen the kids all week and so I was to forget having them tonight because MIL was having them for tea instead.

I called her back and she answered pleasantly, asked how I was etc. I said I'd got her message and that this went again what we had agreed. I got the usual 'you can't bully me into doing what you want' routine. I think I did an excellent job of handling things. I pointed out this is why we have agreed on set days. W said do you think it is fair that you have them Thursday evening, Friday, Saturday, and drop them off Sunday? I validated her thoughts whilst at the same time pointed out that everything bar Friday was what we had agreed, and I was having them Friday just to do her a favour because her mum wouldn't have the kids after throwing a tantrum. I said it was unfair to call the day I was having them to say now I'm not. I said I could leave having them Friday now and just stick to what we had originally agreed. She huffed and puffed, came up with some alternative arrangements like I wouldn't have them Saturday instead, to which I said I had planned to take them somewhere, but ultimately she wants the money from Friday's work and so eventually relented and said we would leave things as they are.

Clearly MIL is annoyed I'm having them so much and is now sticking her oar in to try and disrupt things. This is what she does. Very controlling, very manipulative. When I first met my W and we were dating (she was 18 at this point), MIL would lock her in her room, cut her clothes up, smashed up her phone, refused to let W leave the house unless she had done X,Y,Z, wanted actively alcoholic relatives to help move our possessions into our new house, tried to pick our mortgage and house decorations for us, threatened to call social services if we gave the children certain food she didn't approve of, sent W every photo of W she had as a child with an accompanying letter to say she hated being a mother...the list goes on and on. A total crackpot. So that's what I'm up against in aiming for any sort of future reconciliation. Upon first meeting her she returned home drunk from a night out and thought she was investigating me by asking a lot of questions...that didn't make sense! Being the first time I had met her I answered politely but right off the bat she didn't like me.

Anyway, I've gone a little off topic with my rant there. W said finally she wants to spend the full day with the kids on Easter Sunday, with the implication I think being that she now won't want me to go up there and spend time together with the kids. We'll see what happens there but no doubt MIL will step in with some grand plan of something to do on Sunday to exclude me from proceedings.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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Barely time to post that last message when W has tried to call me. I missed the call. Eventually texted back to see what she wanted. She called me up. We spoke for about 10 minutes without any argument.

She apologised for changing the plans last minute and said that she knew that was wrong. I congratulated her on being big enough to call back to say she was wrong. I kept talk away from R. She kept emphasising that it was good that we were getting on without arguing. I mentioned MIL and how she was messing things about. W agreed! She said MIL had messed her about and cost her some money in lost wages by letting her down last minute the other day.

W said she had been hostile due to me threatening to expose the A to her work. I validated her by saying she had a right to feel all sorts of emotions in a difficult time like this. She also mentioned me contacting OM in the same breath, although she immediately said 'yeah, well, I'm not bothered by that anyway.' I didn't ask any questions at all about OM but recent posts here have expressed my thoughts on the current situation there.

At one point, whilst saying how it was good we were getting on, she did say something like 'yeah, it good to get on. The relationship between us is over, but we have to get on with each other for the kids. Again, I just validated her by saying it wouldn't be healthy for the kids to see mum and dad arguing all the time.

At the moment my two main sources for dealing with this whole thing are of course DB/DR and ... So, as it stands my plan is to use the LRT but because we will have relatively frequent interactions due to the children, to 'agree' (in other words validate) with her feelings, be empathetic etc without being a doormat or agreeing to things I don't agree with, but in a way that is not overbearing or seen as pursuing. I hope I am able to strike the right balance.


Last edited by Cristy; 04/02/15 05:35 PM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mention other books/authors

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Hi Alpha

just catching up with your sitch which is different from mine but our MILs could be twins.

I dont have any advice specifically on the sitch but the only way I found to detoxify effects of MIL was to treat any coms with her as if it was a badly run business (stay polite despite receiving long vitriolic emails etc) my sitch was painful with MIL as we were living in a flat she owned (paying rent etc although she was only "official" with being a landlord when it suited her - there are still repairs outstanding we reported 5 years ago) when I moved out after w had left (she went to stay with MIL) and rented a house she decided it would be fun to say there was no overpaid rent and a huge cleaning cost despite w saying she would sort all that in exchange for my moving costs (I was getting out quickly so w could move there as she couldnt afford rent anywhere of similar size)

What followed was a hate and venom filled exchange from MIL that went on and on. I just replied calmly paid her the cleaning costs and, blissfully, havent spoken to her since.

Loads about my W and MIL on my thread if it helps but the advice of Vanilla was priceless to me in that Its best to leave her to sting herself out like a scorpion.

Assuming your w and MIL have the same relationship mine do, (w is unable to break away from a narcisistic mother with a toxic relationship which even she recognises as well as her friends and my trying to help for 16 years) there is little you can do from your end bar sticking with schedules.

Its a difficult situation which has been better for me of late but with mil selling her place and moving in with w as a staging post before moving north I imagine Im about to have a second dose of interferance!

Keep going Alpha

Edz


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
Starksy,

As much as I'm GAL, dealing better with emotions and so on, I do want my marriage to work out of course. I'm confused. I know no snooping is recommended when using LRT but at the same time I thought having some info on A status would be a good idea. Of course I could get along well with her (or not) in forthcoming interactions only to find she runs to OM the second I leave. I can stop checking but how will I know if anything I do is having an affect. Yes, I can do things for myself. Yes, I can try and detach, manage emotions etc. How can I tell if I'm being played for a fool - she may be nice to me for numerous reasons (guilt, childminding, whatever else) - but just cake eating in one form or another.

Maybe I'm asking the impossible. Maybe I just need to accept that since she's had an A, we are separated, she feels the marriage is over and can do/see/screw whoever she likes, and that I should just leave her alone bar child communications and just live my life. To a large extent I am doing that. I know that is to a large part the LRT. I just feel powerless in whether or not it will have any affect. I know, I have no control over her. I feel like my actions may be irrelevant with regard to our marriage. Sure, positive for me as an individual, but even though I'm powerless and not in control I would still like things to work out. Times when I think about the whole thing make me.somewhat frustrated. I guess it's time to distract myself.


This whole paragraph shows that you are very much focussed on what your wife is doing rather than what you are doing.
You have eveidence of the affair. Keep it somewhere safe and dont look at it again unless you need to for a divorce.
STOP looking at what your wife is doing. the only person it is affecting is you and not in a good way. I know because i did same. The sooner you stop looking at and caring what your wife is doing the better you will start to feel. You have answered your own questions regarding how your wife feels. She is in an affair, loves someone else, feels her marriage is over and that she can do what ever she likes and she can because you do not control her. Im in exactly the same boat as is everyone else.
focus on you and your kids. Let her go


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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Edz,

Thanks for the tips about MILs. I will have a good look over your thread asap and see how you managed to deal with her. It sounds like you have a good strategy in treating MIL like a bad business etc. I have blocked MIL's phone number after her latest nasty messages and an attempt to call me up, which no doubt would have consisted of a stream of abuse aimed in my direction. W even agrees she is messing about. In the foreseeable future I plan to keep any exchanges with MIL down to the bare minimum - preferably none.

Ontheup,

I know you're right. It is so difficult. I guess it is going to take time. I've read again and again of people who just need time to fully let go of their S. Not having child sharing arrangements in place until this week has aggravated that. I believe I am taking decent steps to move on with things (see my GAL list above) but of course my posts here are weighted towards my sitch as ultimately I am here to save my marriage - however dire the sitch seems right now.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
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W attempted to call me again. I missed her call. Called back an hour and a half later. We spoke about how there is a breakout of chicken pox at the kids' school. A nice pleasant chat. I made sure to not talk over W when she was speaking, really listen to what she was saying, validate/agree wherever possible with her. She asked me to keep an eye on the kids in case they show signs of catching it. Neither of us want them to be ill but agreed that if they were to catch it then doing so in the holidays would at least mean that they don't miss any school.

I made sure to end the conversation first by saying I had to go in a polite manner.

At least if nothing else we are seeing signs that we will be able to coparent together. Given her anger and mood swings recently (and yes, my wayward behaviour too) it would be incredibly hard to go on with how things have been for any long period of time. Thankfully we are getting on much better at the moment.

Right, the sun is coming out here. I think it's time to grab a bite to eat and go for a little walk. Gym later maybe. Afterwards have the kids for a bit, drop them off, and then maybe either go out to a local meet up group thing or stay in and watch the political debate that's on tonight before the UK election in a few weeks' time. I am going to try and squeeze in some joke writing time too if i get the chance.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
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T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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I've just come back from a positively friendly interaction with W. I've had the kids since school ended. I dropped them back with her a short while ago. The kids dived into the house as W opened the door. She was all smiles and appeared happy. I don't know if she was happy to see me of course but she appeared happy for some reason anyway.

We talked about the kids for a moment, school arrangements, (I didn't realise the school wasn't open tomorrow) and care arrangements for the next few days. In total less than a five minute conversation. It seems she has now retracted the offer (indirectly) of coming to see the kids on Easter Sunday due to me having them a lot of the next few days. I don't think it was done in any sort of punishing way, merely she won't be seeing them a lot over the next few days and wants to spend the day with them at MIL's place.

I made sure to be the one to end the conversation and say I had to go.

There could be a million reasons why she was nice to me so I'm not going to speculate here or try and mind read this time - it's pointless. It was almost like there wasn't a problem between us at all though. All I know is I'm glad not to be fighting with her all the time at the moment.

She called whilst I had the kids but I didn't get it and didn't return her call. I hope I'm showing that kid wise I'm reliable and dependable (I know I am, I always have been) but at the same time not always readily available should she want to contact me. At the same time as pulling back, I am being friendly in a neighbourly way and using 'agreement' to try and create some positivity between us when we interact - without overdoing it of course. Again, there could be a million reasons why she is being nice to me but I do hope I have found the right path and the right balance now. All forms of pursuing have stopped. Of course there's many factors to come into play other than her just being nice all of a sudden (OM, MIL etc), and this may prove to be a red herring. It's best to have no expectations, plough on with my own activities, maintain this sort of stance in future exchanges with W as it appears to be working, and just see how things go from there.

The kids did return to the front door just before I left and asked W if I could come in. She said daddy has to go now. I was already leaving but I could hear both children crying on the other side of the door as I left.

The poor little beauties.

I did explain to them in the car on the way back that they should never think that just because daddy isn't with them every day that he doesn't want to be. I told them I love them with all my heart, wish I could see them every day, but that's just the way things are for now. I said if they ever need me I will be there for them and if they ever want to ask me anything I will always tell them the truth. S6 is switched on and understands a lot of what I'm saying. D5 is not as developed yet and quite oblivious to everything going on (thankfully). How I love those children. It is my life's mission to make sure they get the absolute best possible start in life and be affected by all this mess as little as possible!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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M: 4.5yrs
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
GAL activities (hopefully) for the next week or so:

Poker with friends.
Italian meet up group.
Recommence learning/self study of Italian.
Socialise/drink or two with local meet up group.
Begin writing jokes (new hobby).
Visit relatives.
Take children out somewhere nice.
Visit the gym at least three times.
Go for a bike ride (weather permitting).
Go for a long walk (weather permitting).
Restart work.
Stop checking to see if W is on IM.

There, much better.


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
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Hahaha thank you Drew. You know what, coincidental as it may seem, because of my post yesterday and the criticism I (rightfully) received, I decided earlier today that I wouldn't be checking whether W/OM was on the IM app - and I haven't! I won't be checking anymore.

I do feel myself coming to terms with everything. My R with my children is more important than anything. Being able to see them as often as I am this week has made me feel better. I can't control anything but myself...and at last I'm beginning to do that!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
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T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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I picked the kids up this morning and have them now until Sunday morning. It still feels strange W not being around to complete our family. I am thrilled to have them of course.

When I went to pick them up W was smiley and friendly. Her face was red just like when she has scrubbed off make up from her face. It stood out as odd. Maybe it was nothing. I certainly didn't ask. Turns out FIL was there but upstairs setting up the kids' bunk beds. He didn't come down to say hello etc.

We only talked for a minute or two. W seems content with herself, seems to have her family at her beck and call to run her errands if need be. At this point I feel I am an unnecessary spare part. Our conversation was only child related, was pleasant enough, and I made sure to end it and leave first. Only when as I was leaving and she mentioned dropping the kids off at MIL's did she say that I had a funny look on my face. I probably did. I don't look forward to having to do that. I didn't make a big deal of saying goodbye - no waving etc. W had already kissed and said goodbye to the kids, so we just left and said 'see you.'

A moment earlier S6 bashed into a cupboard door just as we were leaving. W got angry at him and told him to 'just go.'

I can't help but wonder whether she has noticed that the pursuit has ended. Maybe there hasn't been enough time passed yet. Maybe she doesn't care. She certainly gives the impression that she's happy as she is and also the impression that no pressure from me just means she can live her life without the hassle. I know this might seem too W focused but what takes a bit to write out are just passing thoughts throughout the day.

I have been to the park with the kids, to the supermarket, had them pick out some treats from the shop, played games, watched science videos on youtube, had tea, and now just resting for a bit before we play some more.

I guess the point of this post is that we seemed to have reached a point whereby we have an arrangement over the kids but there is zero talk of anything else. I suppose that is a relief after all the emotional upheaval recently. I know I am being impatient. I see some sign of improvement overall and I want things to be completely better right now. They can't be. I know that. I know I have to have patience, pull back, no R talk, GAL, and so on. I guess I just want her to see sense, that we are/were a family, that things could be better than ever if we just gave it a go. I know she doesn't see it like that right now. She may never see it like that again. I just feel a little frustrated now, that's all.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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M: 4.5yrs
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Hi Alpha, glad you're having a nice time with the kids. I don't think there is any need for you to feel frustrated. It sounds as though things have settled in your sitch, which is good for both you and the kids.

It's best not to be looking for signs of early change in your sitch direction. All of this takes time, and the thing to aim for is being consistent over a period of time. Who knows what your W is making of it, and it doesn't really matter as long as you are on a direction of travel that is towards being the guy you want to be. W may or may not catch up with that.

As for the red face - I wonder if she's had some sort of peel? Enjoy the rest of your time with the kids.... :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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In addition to above, minor I know but I waited in the house for the few minutes I was there, not outside at the front door as previously. W does appear more comfortable around me. When she spoke I looked directly into her eyes. She didn't seem to notice the difference but this is something I will continue to do - focus on her when she is speaking without looking like I'm trying to hypnotize her or something haha.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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Hi toots,

Thanks for your comments. Usually the sort of red face she had would be an indication of her taking off make up. She had the kids last night but they said they were rushed to bed early when I dropped them back off. I'm not going to speculate really because it could be something or it could be nothing. I know guessing doesn't help.

You're right, things have settled. The toxic air and anger permeating through every contact has gone. All signs indicate to her just being happy with her sitch, single, independent, own place, OM? etc.

I can be consistent. Normally I'm Mr consistent. The frustration is a passing thing, as are the thoughts I have about W during the day. I need to have patience. I know we can't fix things over night. It's just where we are right now I see it going one of three ways; like this indefinitely, or she shows signs of interest, or she shows signs of moving on (D proceedings, bringing OM into the open etc).

I hope whilst I GAL etc I am able to positively alter the outcome through my own changes to reach that point of her giving genuine indication she wants to work on things. That is nowhere in sight now. I know it may never happen.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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W has called twice this morning. I answered the second time and put the kids straight on the phone. After she asked them if they were 'ok with daddy' I spoke to her briefly. She had nothing to say, seemed to hang on the phone slightly more than normal too. The one interesting comment she made was how it was strange not to have the kids with her waking her up early morning. I thought to myself 'well, get used to it love.' She said I didn't sound happy (I'm just tired, haven't slept well) and that was that.

I have a busy day planned with the kids; visit relatives, go to the park, and a trip out this afternoon somewhere nice in the car with them.

I'm focused on the kids and being in the moment but like all of us here, I never dreamt this would be our lives. It just doesn't seem right.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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M: 4.5yrs
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I've had a great day with the kids.

We visited relatives where the kids played on a trampoline. Afterwards we went out for the afternoon, which included playing in a park, going into an amusement arcade, having an ice cream as the weather was really lovely, and having a little go on the fair. The kids really enjoyed themselves. We came back, had tea, and went to the park for another kick about with the football. The kids went to bed thoroughly excited about the Easter Bunny coming. I had to explain how the Easter Bunny might not bring all the eggs to one place like he normally does but instead he might be confused and take some to mummy as well. They are excited about double eggs!

At points throughout the day I have thought about W. As I was driving out the kids fell asleep, I was thinking about them, how beautiful they are, how I will do everything I can to see they aren't affected by things, but at the same time I was thinking about the empty passenger seat next to me, and about how we would have previously enjoyed a great family day out on such a lovely spring day as we've had today. Maybe those days will never come again. Who knows? These thoughts don't dominate they day but they do cross my mind. Maybe because it is Easter tomorrow. Maybe because it was such a nice day today. I was going to write how I have been an awful lot better in recent weeks, having not cried in about two weeks (that I remember). However, out of the blue right before bed my D asked if mummy could come out with us next time 'so that we are all together.' I put the kids to bed and shed a little tear after I said goodnight to them. My children are beautiful. I know I speak as a proud father. I hope whatever comes next at least W and I never forget that and act accordingly.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
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T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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I felt quite reflective last night, as my previous post indicates. As it is for all of us, it is difficult to get your head around the fact that as it stands your M is over. It's doubly difficult with children and ferrying them back and forth between parents. Sometimes I think of twinmom's posts that say 'Your W fired you as her H' and it really does strike a chord.

This morning was taken over by the kids being excited about the Easter Bunny coming of course. My S woke up first and wanted to climb into bed with me to cuddle. They were made up with their Easter eggs - absolutely thrilled in fact. It was wonderful to see the joy on their faces, particularly when my D remarked that 'the Easter Bunny is magic.'

Beautiful memories can still be made in the hardest of times.

Upon the 15 minute or so drive to MIL's house the kids kept asking could they go and see if the Easter Bunny had been to their mum's house. We have to pass W's house on the way to MIL's. I parked around the corner and called W to see if the kids could pop in and check for eggs. W ended up coming out with the eggs in a bag and went with me and the kids to her MIL's about a mile away. She was focused on the kids of course and they were excited about more potential eggs. They showed off the eggs I had allowed them to bring with them. W was smiley and upbeat, as was I.

At one point when the kids were laughing and happy we looked at each other and she had a warm smile on her face. I was smiling too. I could be completely wrong but it seemed a split second connection over our children. In the couple of minute's drive to MIL's the kids mainly spoke about yesterday's activities with me. W talked about some potential child related activities over the school summer holiday period. She was quite friendly and nice. No attitude problem, no anger or animosity. If I look back at old messages she had sent me from about 5-6 weeks ago there are some that say 'I hate you', 'drop kids off at door and be civil, that's it' kind of thing. I certainly don't think she hates me now.

She was fiddling about with the bag of Easter eggs and as she leaned over slightly I noticed that she smelt my aftershave. As I focused on driving and being cool, I noticed her glancing across looking at me once or twice, before repeating the bag fiddling and sniffing.

Once at MIL's, W and kids went ahead whilst I got bags out of the car. MIL was at the door, and strangely was smiling and waving hello at me. I handed bags over to W at the door, who said thank you, kissed the kids goodbye, and said goodbye to W and MIL before leaving.

Luckily for me there is a big sports event on today (on TV for around 5 hours) which will keep me occupied. Otherwise I fear I might have felt low considering it's Easter Sunday and I'm without the kids. I left them safe in the knowledge that they had a fantastic time with me. My son kept saying 'I love you Daddy' throughout our time together. That warmed my heart. My D is still too young to understand things but she is an incredibly happy little girl. We had the better day for the weather anyway. Yesterday was a lovely spring day. Today is cold and foggy here.

I think I am striking the right balance now. Of course it would be the wrong thing to do to be cold and aloof with W. Equally it would be wrong to continue pursuing or being overly friendly. I'm holding back on conversation with her a lot, only initiating now and again. She is making conversation with me slightly more. It is virtually always child related. I'm being friendly and polite when she does speak to me. I try to avoid topics that would result in arguments. Since Tuesday, when she had a sudden turnaround and started being nice, I think we have only had one minor disagreement on the phone. That was over child arrangements when MIL was messing about.

I see zero signs of anything remotely R related appearing. However, I am aware this is going to be a long slog and any change should not be expected - in the short or long term. I am GAL and valuing the time spent with my children more than ever. I am trying to be the best person I can be.

From R perspective with W, I would imagine at some point her A, should it continue, would have to come out into the open (I don't think her parents know about her continued contact, certainly her workmates don't). At that point things might flourish or the warts and all might start to show through. He's about 43, pot belly, 'won't commit', and surely isn't going to want two young, incredibly active children about. I'm think the gloss would wear off. Not that I'm hanging around waiting for that to happen. I can't 'move on' in the sense of finding someone else because I am still married, still want to reconcile with my W, still want to have our family together again. However, I am no longer hanging around in the sense of waiting for her to wake up and reality hit home. I am living my life the best I can right now, with only one eye on things to see how they're developing. I know my posts here are sitch focused (that's the point of this board surely), but I do feel more distance emotionally between what she does and doesn't do and how I respond. Lovingly detached I believe it's called.

Happy Easter everyone!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Hi Alpha

From your post today, I think you've found your DBing groove. I would carry on just as you are with W, but keep focusing on building up new things for yourself outside of your M. I think your interactions with your W sound much better now, but focus on building up your GAL too, so that you have your own friends and activities.

The other challenge I think is to manage impatience and frustration - which are DB enemies. Once you have found your 'groove' I think time and patience are the watchwords. You are still feeling heartened by your W's change and things she may be noticing, but settle yourself in for the long haul here...it's best if you can get to a place where you don't worry too much about what W may think or notice. That takes time, but it's a good direction of travel.

The other thing to think about is your 'judgement' of W in some of your recent posts. Zues posted something recently about this, which struck a chord with me. You may want to have a read and ponder this too. Of course I'm no vet and these are just my 0.2s.

Have a happy Easter! T :-)


T 13 M 7
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SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
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Hi Alpha

I am happy your focusing now in the right path and as Toots suggest it takes time to build a relationship. Bridges when broken can be rebuilt and the same goes with wounds.

Good you had a fantastic time with your children glad to read your post.

Have a happy Easter and keep us updated.

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Argh I just wrote a long post but the computer crashed. I'll keep this one shortish.

Toots,

Happy Easter. Thanks for your comments. I know you're right. I've got to work on not judging W. I hope I've found my DBing groove. I think you're touching on detachment if I'm still getting enthused over W's change in behaviour. I do suffer from frustration but it is mainly fleeting. I believe I'm patient enough to see this through, that's not to say I don't get impatient at times.

Luis,

Thanks for your post! Happy Easter. You make good, concise comments regarding rebuilding Rs and time healing wounds. I hope that turns out to be the case.

W called me just before to arrange child care over the next few days. As the phone rang and I saw it was her calling, I thought to myself, answer it (it's Easter), be upbeat and happy sounding, try and find something to agree on - anything - and finally end the call first.

I did all of that. Firstly I spoke to the kids. They were excited with having received more eggs throughout the day. S6 came on the phone and I could hear him asking W if he could ask me something. It turns out he wants to share his favourite Easter eggs with me. It's good to know I'm not forgotten by the kids when I'm not there.

W was friendly throughout. After speaking to the kids we spoke for a moment or two. I made a comment about how the kids sounded like they'd had a good Easter. She agreed. She said she hadn't given them too many eggs so that they didn't get sick. Normally, at this point, I would lecture on how too much chocolate is bad for them etc. This time however I just agreed that she was doing a good thing. I was upbeat throughout. I ended the call first.

I have the kids all day Tuesday and overnight. Probably later in the week too for the odd night here and there. I feel quite happy with myself at the moment. Maybe a page hasn't turned in our R, but I certainly feel a change in myself. As for GAL activities, I have the following planned as a minimum:

Go to the gym three times this week.
Take up offer of staying over one night at relatives this week.
Go to Italian meet up.
Continue job writing hobby.
Go to planned comedy meetup event in the next week or so.
Continue taking regular walks around local park.
Contact old friends to plan something for this week.
Start work again tomorrow.

There will of course be plenty of difficulties ahead but I feel I'm in a much better place emotionally to deal with them from now on.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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For pretty much the first time since BD, W has contacted me over something non essential. She sent me a picture message that I couldn't see due to my phone settings. Here's what transpired next via text:

W: Did well didn't they?
M: I can't see your picture. Could you email it to me please?
W: Yes of course.
M: Thank you.

I receive email with pic attached of kids' Easter eggs stacked up.

M: They've done very well with their eggs. I'm sure they'll enjoy working their way through those smile
W: Oh yes prob take about 6 months not eating all that chocolate they would be ill!
M: Haha S6 would have it for breakfast, dinner, tea if he could...and in his packed lunch.
W: Ohh he has tried not succeeded.
M: I bet he has...little monkey.

I tried to keep things short, tried not to deviate into other topics, tried to be friendly but not pursue. I hope I did alright.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Alpha, you are doing really well -- I agree, you are finding your "groove" here and these techniques (validating, avoiding R talks, etc.) are becoming more second-nature to you. Like "muscle memory" in sports. smile

Keep up the good work!


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I've had a funny day today. After text exchange this morning with W, I went out in car with sister for a nice walk nearby, watched some sport on TV this afternoon, and went out for an hour long late afternoon walk by myself. The Bank Holiday here today meant no work for me. I will restart that on Wednesday now.

Living with my parents is getting me down. It's like being in a retirement home. They mean well but are very little help besides making endless cups of tea. I am grateful I can stay here for free but I do not like it. I can't afford to do anything about it at the moment.

I'm going to contact water and energy suppliers tomorrow to get them cut off back at home. That will save money. W has not paid a penny towards her share of bills towards OUR house since she left. I've mentioned it on a few occasions and she has made nice sounding noises but ultimately has done nothing to pay me. That's something on the horizon that's going to rock the boat a bit.

The day's been funny in that when I get quiet moments I think of W. I am practicing self control a great deal better these days though. I do have pangs of missing W intensely and wanting to reach out to say I love her etc. Of course I'm not going to do that. That would be crazy at this point. The hardest part today has been out on my walks and seeing families enjoying the sunshine together. At those moments I do wonder what W must think should she be in the same situation. Does a WAW miss those moments or are they so wrapped up in themselves that they don't give it a thought? The probable answer to that just seems so, so crazy to me.

I have the kids all day tomorrow. I have lots of things planned with them. We are going to spend the night at my sister's house. Other relatives staying over too. We are going to have a drink or two and a bit of a party. It should be fun and a good distraction from everything.

So, gym tomorrow morning, pick kids up, spend day with them, go to sister's later on and stay over. Wed: work and then Italian meet up. Thurs: Have kids all day and then maybe pub quiz in evening. Fri: Work with nothing planned just yet. Sat: Kids again. Throw in gym here and there when I can along with the joke writing hobby I'm trying to develop and some Italian practice.

I need to stay busy, busy, busy to keep my mind off W. I still think about her too much. I need to keep busy in order to detach. I need to make new friends. Hopefully the meetup scene will help with that.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Alpha, without checking back, what's the situation with your house? Do you own it or rent it? And would it not be possible for you to return there?

I lived with my parents for 5 months after BD and was glad to get my own place again. My Mum has dementia and Dad looks after her full time - it's hard work! But it was nice to help them for a while - and it's good now to be independent again.


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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W and I have a mortgage on our house. The sad thing is we were overpaying and in 4.5 years at our rate of repayment would have cleared the mortgage off.

I can't afford to live there alone. Even if I could she would want to be bought out - meaning I would owe her £1,000s W wants to sell but hasn't mentioned anything about it in a few weeks. She wants the cash to fund her new life. I haven't mentioned anything about it in the hope that if things worked themselves out we could resume living there, or even sell up and move somewhere else 'together.'

Our overpayments mean we could go up to three years with incredibly low monthly mortgage repayments. With all other utilities turned off (bar council tax), the house will cost next to nothing to 'maintain' for the foreseeable future.

I think I will give it a few months tops to see how things are panning out. Worse case scenario would be I drag my feet too long, house still gets sold but we have next to no profit because we've eaten up the equity by 'underpaying.'

Throughout our M and time owning the house W has shown ZERO interest in anything bill wise.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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W: 28
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M: 4.5yrs
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If you and wife jointly own the home then you both have an obligation to pay for it?
Have you taken any legal advice on this?


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T:13 M:10
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Moved out and moved on

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yes, you need to speak to a d attorney at once.


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******off topic cultural/region question****

In the United States the typical mortgage is 30 years, what is it in the UK?


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Hey Twin

Similar in the UK. depends how young you are when you buy first house but most people i know are on 20-25 year mortgage


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I haven't sort legal advice. Actually, I think I will reduce the mortgage payments to £5/month for the time being. I will pay that and keep records of her non paying. With other bills cancelled, the council tax would be the only remaining bill - around £90/month. So £95/month all in for the house.

W and I getting on better right now. Timing is crucial. I will bring up finances once we're on slightly surer ground.

I think average mortgage length in the UK is 25 years. We had blasted the balance down to have 4.5 years remaining at the speed we were paying. In reality it should have been 16 years remaining.

Part of W's problem was feeling trapped due to overpaying mortgage. My view was in 4.5 years we'd be mortgage free for the rest of our lives...meaning more holidays/fun times etc. She'd have been 32-33. Having no interest in finances, she wouldn't see the long term plan, just she was missing out now. I countered 11 holidays in 2 years wasn't missing out, plus nights out, cinema and theatre trips, concerts etc etc. In her selective memory none of those things either happened or were any good. They certainly aren't happening for her now. Reality is biting in. She's talking about a 3-4 day UK holiday (weather anyone? Hahaha) this year. Bit of a come down. She can't go on successive nights out, theatre, cinema, socialising events cos she's short on money. Welcome to the real world, now I'm not sorting everything out for her.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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Hi Alpha,

Good that you start keeping record with finances, but do try and take legal advice in terms on what planning you can have as a backup, because you may never know any sudden change from outside influence on your wife.

Have your finances sorted and keep following the GAL and all will be good.

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Thanks Luis for your words of encouragement.

Just come back from cinema with the kids. The end of the film was very sentimental, made me think of W, our family. At times I do want to scream out that I love her. At other times I imagine her being intimate with OM and it scars my soul. Having no children would make a world of difference. But we do, and I wouldn't change that for the world, but I absolutely hate this situation. I'm getting all this out here so I'm cleansed before seeing W tomorrow.

Short respite now before out all afternoon with kids. It's lovely and sunny here. Going to sister's house then park. Gonna have a bit of a party. The kids will love it. I will enjoy the adult company.

I just erased a paragraph of soppy nonesense. I still have bouts of longing for W, tho not as frequent or as intense as before, but I'm trying desperately hard to be responsible for my own happiness.

I am a good person. I plan to display my best aspects as much as possible from now on. This is not for my W, indeed, contact with her is at an all time low frequency. No, this is for me...to be the best person I can be!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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"I just erased a paragraph of soppy nonesense. I still have bouts of longing for W, tho not as frequent or as intense as before, but I'm trying desperately hard to be responsible for my own happiness"

Good for you Alpha. We all feel like this, but it's good to recognise that the frequency and intensity does reduce - and will continue to reduce - as time goes on.

Sounds like you guys are having a good day - enjoy your little ones!

T x


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks toots!

Again, I had started to write a long and meandering post but I'll keep this quite short instead.

I had a great day today with kids. The kids did too. I know I'm their father but I can see how they love me so much in so many of the things they say and do. I am a very, very lucky person.

I will always have my W to thank for giving me two beautiful little human beings.

I felt down at points throughout the day. So many things bring about thoughts of W. I need to work on that. One idea I have is to look into NLP to reframe things. I did look into NLP a few years ago for unrelated reasons but I think it may have some use here for me.

I'm in a lot better place mentally than I was just a few weeks ago. I nearly cried today at one point when I was driving and the kids were asleep. I didn't though. I held it back. It was hard but I did it. I will keep doing it. It WILL get easier.

I was interested to read Starksy's post in Complex's thread about what you might have done that leads your W to fear she is losing you. I guess I haven't done anything. I'm not pursuing now, and I don't want to do things for the sake of 'tactics' or whatever, but it's an interesting point that he makes and something I'll have to think about.

My phone has been on silent so I've missed two calls from W in last 30 minutes or so. The last one was at 10pm. I won't be answering any calls tonight. She's had all day to call. She needs to realise that she can't just access me whenever she feels like. Yes, I do have the kids right now. If there was a problem I'd have contacted her. 10pm is pretty late to be calling anyone I'd say.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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W: 28
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M: 4.5yrs
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You may want to send a text about the day the kids had. Since the past issues of trusting you with the kids you need to keep doing trustworthy things. Like letting her know everything is OK and they had fun today. Can be a simple text instead of a call.

Last edited by mvgfwd2; 04/07/15 09:25 PM.

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I guess you're right. I was going to wait until morning to make contact due to it being late now but I've just fired off a quick text to say 'hey, just saw your missed calls. I can't speak right now. Everything OK?'


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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After my text above, W replied: ' Yeah just wondering how the kids have been and what time your dropping them off?'

I replied: 'Kids have been great and had a fantastic day. The weather has been lovely. I'll drop them off at 9am'

I tried to gauge the reply to vaguely inform of their day (without spilling the beans), make a positive comment, and confirm child arrangements. I didnt ask a question so as not to appear to pursue, and tried to strike a balance between being nice but mysterious, slightly distant without being cold.

I remember a time when text messages were just text messages haha

Taking the kids back soon. YouTube history shows W has been looking at cars in the middle of the night. Since she has no interest in cars I can only assume it's OM related. At this point that shouldn't bother me but it does still...though not to the same degree as before.

I'm going to be upbeat and positive upon seeing her, be neighbourly friendly without over doing it, and try and make a positive connection, even if it is on something small.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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M: 4.5yrs
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Just took the kids back. Bit annoying that when I got there W wanted to go back to our town (she's living a few miles away in a small nearby town). Since I was going I gave her/kids a lift.

Waiting for a mo in her place, my S6 was being quite naughty for her. She tried to blame me, saying each time S6 comes back to her he's naughty and it must be because I spoil the kids. I don't. I never have. In a nice way I explained this and she relented and agreed.

In the car we chat over minor things, the sunshine etc. We got on great...best in ages. At one point she commented how nice it was we were getting along better. I agreed. She said the kids love both of us. I agreed. We made arrangements for kids for the rest of the week.

I was going to the bank once parked up. Turns out W was too. We walked over together with the kids. A 5 min walk. She talked about hols this year...and next year. Asked if I had any. I was vague in answering yes.

She talked about France, where we'd been to before, how she felt comfortable there. I was tempted to make suggestions but never. She learnt a tiny amount of French during previous holidays there. She brought this up,saying she could order food etc. I cheerleadered at this point: 'oh yeah, I remember when you used to go to the supermarket in France and speak French to buy baguettes etc. You were really good at that.'. She almost blushed and broke out into a big smile.

During the walk a girl I know (the hottest girl from high school by chance - W doesn't know her (my age)) passed by across the street. We saw each other, smiled, said hello. W was mid sentence at that point. I wasnt rude or ignorant to her. She carried on a few more words...then stopped and said it didn't matter.

I don't want to purposely make her jealous, but unintendedly it couldnt have gone much better: really hot girl says hello from across the street. I could see the cogs turning in W's head. A bit more chit chatted followed shortly after.

We reached the bank, I nipped in a shop for some things for the kids, and then back to the bank to part ways. W was waving her phone about. Hard not to notice she had text app open and OM was top name. I'm not surprised. At this point right now I'm not really bothered (well OK, a little bit). Not to boast but I look the best I have in years, both in terms of physicality and clothing, and I'm becoming a better person. I love W and adore my kids. W will either wake up and catch on that she's losing out by not being with me, or she won't and...over time I will move on and someone else will be very lucky. I feeling kind of good today.

P.S.

I do initiate little bits of conversation but then step back and let W lead. She is starting to open up to me slightly. I think I'm on the right path. I'm not letting her take advantage of me, setting some boundaries, we're sticking to parenting plan, she's showing some flexibility, we're being nicer to each other, but I'm not pursuing.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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EDIT: just to add to this, I did point out S6 naughtiness could be a result of our sitch. Her reply was the one note of narkiness all interaction. She said, well, there's nothing we can do about that' in a slightly downbeat, irritated way. She turned and walked away as she said this.

Last edited by alpha99; 04/08/15 09:42 AM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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She's probably sensitive about any implied guilt I would think Alpha.

Great luck with the attractive lady - perfect!


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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Maybe you're right Toots. It did come across though as 'well, what's done is done and we can't change it now' sort of thing. I know feelings are liable to change though and so I'm not giving her answer much weight right now.

Thinking about this morning, as I tend to do, a few other things stood out.

* She went very quiet when I mentioned I was going out tonight. She doesn't know where I'm going or why.

* In talking about holidays, she mentioned booking next year's...and she implied she'd be going alone (with the kids). Her parents won't go away with her - they only do bingo playing, pensioner style UK coach holidays.

* However she acts, whatever she says, some signs are irrefutable. She would very clearly be affected by me meeting someone else. I don't want to right now, and I wouldn't use that as some tactic to try and win her back, but I have noticed on the few occasions we've skirted around that subject previously that it definitely does bother her. She either goes quiet, scrunches her face, or looks away when making an unconvincing statement along the lines of 'you can do what you want.' Being stopped in her tracks by 'attractive lady' saying hello this morning was another sign of this.

So, at the moment I feel good. I'm looking forward to my Italian group tonight (Non vedo l'ora andarci!).

Regarding my sitch, I guess I want to work it both ways. On the one hand I want to continue as we have recently and try and build up positive connections, get along, find agreement in things, make sure the kids aren't affected by things etc. On the other hand, and following on from Starky's statement about fear of losing a LBS, I want it to be clear that despite being nicer to each other etc, I am not waiting around for her, that I'm moving on. Stopping all pursuit is doing that to some extent. I want to maybe extend that somehow. I don't know how though. I'm certainly not going to advertise it, that would look like a sad ploy, but maybe there is something that I will do for myself that will be a clear sign that I'm not hanging on and holding out hope indefinitely.

After all the early weeks of crying etc, I still feel she has that security in the back of her mind where she feels that should she want to she could have me back anytime she liked. Bursting that little bubble would be nice. I do have opposing thoughts sometimes, and should we ever near the piecing stage, I can see myself having some serious reflection, to the point where maybe it turns out after all my longing that working on a R isn't the best option for us. Who knows? Of course right now I'm open to a potential R...but will that always be the case?


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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DING DONG - alarm bells ringing!

Wife has just left voicemail after a missed call. Her message is about selling the house. She wants to know what we're going to do about it. She wants to call the estate agents today. She went to the bank this morning, not just to withdraw cash as normal but to speak to an adviser. Based off experience my guess is that she's short on cash due to her past record of poorly handled finances. She wants to sell the house to replenish her depleted bank balance no doubt.

Now, I can't afford to stay there alone. So I guess we're going to have to sell it. I see this as a step in the wrong direction in terms of things working out but I am willing to go with it. We've already said we'll split the profit 50/50 so that's not really an issue.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how I should proceed?

The house needs a little work (mainly just decorating) to get the most out of it sales wise. W wants to get it up for sale ASAP. I'd rather we got the most we can from it and tidied it up a little first.

EDIT: I doubt she'd want to 'waste' her money but having £1,000s means she could potentially afford to start D proceedings too. My initial thought is to say 'slow down, lets clear the house out, tidy it up a little, move on to the estate agents phase in a week or two.'

Last edited by alpha99; 04/08/15 02:08 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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Hi Alpha,

As the house is in both your name and hers, try to approach this professional by letting her know you need time to think in order to upsale the house and arrange times for you also to take part with the agent and you involve in the sale.

Let us know how it goes.

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Hi Luis,

As it happens I have just spoken to W and by coincidence did as you proposed. We both agreed we don't want to decorate the house as it would cost too much but that it does need cleaning. We are going to do that together over the next few days and W is arranging for someone to come and value the house at a time when we're both available next week. I pointed out that we don't have to jump right in the first company to value it and we should approach this sensibly with a mind to getting 'us' the best deal. W agreed.

I did start the conversation by asking what she wanted to do. Then I listened and validated all her thoughts. I gave my thoughts afterwards. W knows I am financially minded and agreed with my points. Considering we're talking about the sale of our family home due to the death of our M it was quite a pleasant conversation.

I did fear W was going to be antagonistic due to the circumstances and her wanting money, money, money! She did let slip that as I suspected she hasn't got much money at the moment. She seemed pleased with the prospective amount of money we might get from the house sale.

I think I handled the call really well. I had written out bullet points in Notepad to make sure I covered the things I wanted to. I validated the hell out of what she was saying. Finally, I was calm, rational, and clear headed throughout the conversation. No emotions involved.

W is definitely more comfortable communicating with me right now. I don't think I'm being easy on her. I think I am letting her see I understand and value her thoughts. I made sure to compose myself before calling her back and thought about what the purpose of the call was, how I might act 'as if' I was fine with everything...and then stuck to those guidelines.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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The agent may also be able to tell you what you need to do to get the most out of it. So talking to the agent (together!!) would be a first step. Then plan for what needs to be done for the sale. It doesn't look like there is a reason to rush it and leave money on the table.


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Alpha, you co own the house, so this proceeds at a pace and in a way that you are comfortable with, okay?

Have you seen a L yet? I can't recall. But they are likely to advise that you only sell the house as part of a full financial settlement. Jim and his W did this, and it is what I am hoping to do with my H - ie: formalise the separation.

Don't be pressured into doing anything until you are comfortable. If needs be, just let your W know you are thinking about it and will get back to her in a few days.


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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I was thinking myself prior to calling that I will need to finally seek legal advice, as where it regards the sale of a house it becomes very serious. I don't want to be caught short where we sell the house, W blows all her cash relatively quickly (as she is likely to do), we D, and she claims half of my share if I don't spend it.

I would like to say she would never do that but of course who she was and who she is are now two separate things.

There are a few L's around who offer a free consultation. I will arrange one ASAP regarding this. I have really wanted to stay away from solicitors. I know I need to protect myself here. I can't help feeling there's a different culture here in the UK with regards to solicitors/lawyers than there is in the USA. Yeah, I know in some cases it doesn't matter; if the situation demands you get one then you better had.

My thoughts persist though that should I get the ball rolling, W (through MIL) will see it as an attack and things would get nasty. I'm not trying to nice her out of anything, nor am I scared at this point of D (not wanting to is another matter), but knowing my W as I do I think it would set off a trigger that would be hard to stop.

Does anyone have any thoughts on that?


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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You need to protect your largest asset - your house - protect it with a lawyer


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Originally Posted By: HeavyD
You need to protect your largest asset - your house - protect it with a lawyer


x 2.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Hi Alpha,

My opinion to best action I would take, picture like this, and before I say this, I know you may think, "well, I am here to save my marriage", there's ups and downs and is in my opinion best for you and your children along in accordance to your wife and you to be amicable.

I would recommend you seek a lawyer for advise, reason said, as you stated above, you have sold the house, she spent the money she would claim D and half of your share, and you will be left with less and is unfair for you.

I believe when consulting a lawyer, suggest whether maybe have some legal document that this can be a bond for the house or all things, meaning that once sold, she cannot claim this if D takes place or alternative suggest to the solicitor and have your wife laid with the options on the table whether if there is no legal doc which I believe there is but in agreement with your wife signing and in case she does not take it negative "MIL" as per your comment, deciding to sell the house, then possibly a divorce would cover the assets and protect yourself.

Again, you need sometimes to make decisions not for anybody's comfort but what is best for you and your family. In this case, as you said, your wife is no longer who you knew in the past, and also don't forget influence from the outside who can change her state of mind.

Maybe somebody may have a different approach in the forum, but this is just my opinion.

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I agree. The MIL, or W's lawyer, may urge W to go for anything and everything. Get your legal work in order to protect yourself. It's not being nasty but being prudent.


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Alpha, I think pretty much all UK solicitors offer half hour free consultations. If you can, I would see at least 2 or 3 (your Q's develop as you go along) before you choose someone.

Once you actually choose someone and start consulting with them, the costs do mount. My S charges £220/hour, which I think is pretty standard if they are a partner in the firm.

Your sitch is similar to mine in that we are trying to save the M, there is an OP involved and your S has now asked to sell the house. I was quite keen just to sell and not settle anything else for now. But my S advised strongly against it. This may depend on how complex/substantial your assets are. I posted her advice on my sitch & will post a link for you.

My H didn't want to involve L's, but I told him I wouldn't want us to take such a big step without proper advice. We have also chosen solicitors who practice 'collaborative law.' This is something to ask those whom you see.

I found it hard to take the step of seeking a L, but I am glad now that I did..


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Here's a link to what I posted after L appt on 25.2.

In my threads following that will be some interaction with H..

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545660&page=3


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Toots,

Thank you very much for that valuable information. I am going to look right into it now. I will research collaborative law also.

I have been dead against use of L's as I've said, but this is not something I can't get wrong.

I suppose a consultation with L will answer this but I was wondering whether I could find out my rights, where I stand with regard to W claiming my 'house money' further down the line if a D should come about, and have that in place (a plan of action, or maybe confirmation that she couldn't take it, some signed agreement solely regarding the house etc) and then hold it back until a point where it may be needed (D proceedings)

I am all for protecting myself over the house. I just don't want to pre-empt D proceedings or reach a point where W (or MIL) thinks well, we might as well save £££ and do the divorce now since we're selling the house.

W and I are definitely getting on better. As I wrote before, even conversation over house sale was not strained. W may just be being nice to get what she wants. She certainly hasn't shown any clear sign of wanting to work on M. She didn't mention divorce throughout house conversation though, more 'you're living with your parents and I'm in my house, so we don't need that house just sitting there.' Again, I'm not daft enough to neglect the idea she is just being nice to get her £££.

Our short conversations on other non important subjects are improving with each interaction as well though. I know OM is still in the picture to whatever degree. I know that any sort of reconciliation (even the makings of one) would at the very least be many months away - if at all. I just want to get things right and not blow it at a crucial point.

Obviously handling this in a way that protects myself whilst not unnecessarily antagonising W is key.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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There's no need to tell your W that you are consulting with L's, but I think you should go for a couple of free consultations, just to get yourself to a point where you know how you want to propose doing things in respect of the house. Just tell her you're considering it and will come back to her after the weekend, then get on the phone pronto!

No-one on the site can really help you much with the best course of action to protect yourself and the kids. Our financial and marital circumstances vary so much, you really need an expert who knows your affairs and can give qualified advice.

Best of luck Alpha - got to dash, I'm off dancing now! :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thank you for all your help and advice Toots (everyone else too). It really is invaluable.

EDIT: Just to add, I did speak to W earlier and agree for her to contact an estate agent for next week to see if they could come out value the house. That in itself isn't much because I want a few free valuations before we proceed any further. Of course if I get legal advice against the sale of the house I will bring that up at some point before the next step in the house selling process should come back, if not before.

Regarding assets, we only have the house. I have a car which I had bought for me after we split. W keeps mentioning it as if I somehow used 'our' money to buy it. I've told her my father bought it for me. Other than that all I can think of is possessions, and we have pretty much sorted that out already.

I did have a look at collaborative law and I definitely think that is the way to go should we have to go down that route.


Last edited by alpha99; 04/08/15 06:11 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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No clue what the law in the UK is but in the state I live in assets are ALL marital until you actually file the paperwork. (This includes gifts too... So in my state your wife would have rights to 50% value of the car)
Double check the laws regarding this.




Originally Posted By: alpha99
Thank you for all your help and advice Toots (everyone else too). It really is invaluable.

EDIT: Just to add, I did speak to W earlier and agree for her to contact an estate agent for next week to see if they could come out value the house. That in itself isn't much because I want a few free valuations before we proceed any further. Of course if I get legal advice against the sale of the house I will bring that up at some point before the next step in the house selling process should come back, if not before.

Regarding assets, we only have the house. I have a car which I had bought for me after we split. W keeps mentioning it as if I somehow used 'our' money to buy it. I've told her my father bought it for me. Other than that all I can think of is possessions, and we have pretty much sorted that out already.

I did have a look at collaborative law and I definitely think that is the way to go should we have to go down that route.



Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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random question.....

If your wife makes most of the money (you said you didn't work much right?) Then why didn't she stay in the house with the kids, refinance to make the payments lower and buy you out?

I might not be thinking/understanding things clearly but why did both of you leave a house that you own (not rental)?


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Good question twinmom,

Yes, W earns more than me. She's reduced her hours but could still afford to live in 'our house.' Circumstances fell that she landed a good job whilst I was staying at home minding our two young kids. I work as much as possible, varying between 15-30 hours/week).

Post BD she wanted me to leave. My parents live 6 doors away (maybe 40 metres?) from our house. I figured it was leaving only in name and would be temp. I figured the kids would be at home and I could see them every day. I thought we'd work things out.

I was in shock. I wasn't thinking straight.

I begged and pleaded and cried...and begged some more. I sent texts, wrote letters, bought concert tickets. You name it, I did it. I threatened A exposure to work. I threatened to contact OM. I was a mess. I didn't know about DB/DR then.

Essentially I pushed her out the door with my behaviour post BD. Running in tandem with my own lack of clear headedness, W was acting crazy. She made vehement threats, was violent towards me, waved a snooker at me, threatened to call the police, claimed she had made secret recordings of me shouting at her etc.

All in all she sort solace at her mum's place. Once gone I sleept at home alone on and off. It was lonely. To save on bills and have company I moved into parents' house. My current wage means I couldn't afford to live at home. W obviously doesn't want to live near my parents. She also claims to hate our town. I'd imagine conducting an affair on the doorstep would be hard too.

For myself, another job is the way to go. At the moment, being at my parents, I will keep on with the work I have due to the flexibility of it and because I don't need to earn too much right now. Eagle eyes are also counting pennies to see how much I earn so I can pay out child maintenance.

What a holy mess!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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Good question twinmom,

Yes, W earns more than me. She's reduced her hours but could still afford to live in 'our house.' Circumstances fell that she landed a good job whilst I was staying at home minding our two young kids. I work as much as possible, varying between 15-30 hours/week).

Post BD she wanted me to leave. My parents live 6 doors away (maybe 40 metres?) from our house. I figured it was leaving only in name and would be temp. I figured the kids would be at home and I could see them every day. I thought we'd work things out.

I was in shock. I wasn't thinking straight.

I begged and pleaded and cried...and begged some more. I sent texts, wrote letters, bought concert tickets. You name it, I did it. I threatened A exposure to work. I threatened to contact OM. I was a mess. I didn't know about DB/DR then.

Essentially I pushed her out the door with my behaviour post BD. Running in tandem with my own lack of clear headedness, W was acting crazy. She made vehement threats, was violent towards me, waved a snooker cue at me, threatened to call the police, claimed she had made secret recordings of me shouting at her etc.

All in all she sort solace at her mum's place. Once gone I sleept at home alone on and off. It was lonely. To save on bills and have company I moved into parents' house. My current wage means I couldn't afford to live at home. W obviously doesn't want to live near my parents. She also claims to hate our town. I'd imagine conducting an affair on the doorstep would be hard too.

For myself, another job is the way to go. At the moment, being at my parents, I will keep on with the work I have due to the flexibility of it and because I don't need to earn too much right now. Eagle eyes are also counting pennies to see how much I earn so I can pay out child maintenance.

What a holy mess!

Last edited by alpha99; 04/08/15 10:45 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Not long back from Italian meetup. Had an excellent time. GAL certainly takes your mind off your sitch. Being a quiet person by nature, it takes a lot for me to talk to people I don't know. Making a mess of it in a foreign language certainly lowers inhibitions, particularly when others are of a similar level.

Tonight has inspired me to actively participate in other social events. There's a pub quiz on Thursday I think I'll attend.

I actually spent most of this evening chatting to an attractive women aged probably in her late 30s. Turns out she is recently separated. It was good to just chat (even in Italian) to new people with a blank slate, no preconceptions of you really, no background info etc.

The time spent GAL is the longest I go without some thought about W. Once it was.over I did think of her again. So the answer to that: do more of it.

I came out buzzing and thinking 'you know what, life goes on regardless.' I've read how people move on, time heals wounds, pain subsides etc. Tonight was the first real taste that yes, if everything goes belly up, I can learn my lessons from where I've gone wrong, but also dive into a new and exciting life.

Bring it on!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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I'm still feeling good after last night. I'm going out for a walk now. When I return I will sort out some bill stuff and begin looking into Ls.

I thought I'd post an update on 'signs of improvement' that I see in my sitch. Here it is:

* We have a stable parenting plan that we're adhering too very well.

* W and I are getting on a lot better this last two weeks, both in terms of text and face to face interaction.

* W is more comfortable around me.

* W has called me over non urgent matters.

* W has asked once or twice what I'm up to, how I am doing.

* She seems to be relaxing over me being present in her place. Initially she was very guarded about me snooping around her place. She still is to some extent but is easing off on that.

* W has noticed my sustained change in appearance. I caught her glancing at me in the car once or twice and sniffing out my aftershave.

GAL activities:

Long local walks.
Italian meet up.
Visit to relatives.
Fun activities with kids (at the park, cinema etc).
Joke writing hobby is underway.

* I haven't been to the gym in a few days. I plan to resume that activity ASAP. I plan to extend my GAL list by going to a pub quiz tonight, the aforementioned gym, spending more time with the kids (this afternoon for example), contacting old friends to do something (need to do that still), more visits to relatives (been invited up for Friday night stay overs).

The result of all this is that I am feeling infinitely better about myself. Last night was a turning point. I had a great time last month at the Italian meet up, but this time, being in a room with 10-15 other people, chatting, enjoying myself being immersed in a hobby, making new acquaintances, and being accepted by those people (I have a life long issue with confidence), it all showed me that despite pangs of loneliness (all too often still) and hurtful thoughts over my M/W's A, longing for W etc, that I am turning a page. Life does indeed go on and it is what you make of it.

I'm sure I'll feel down and maybe get upset at some future points (sale of family home is going to be hard to swallow), but I am developing a mindset and a confidence to deal with these things in a lot better way than previously. I don't get emotional around W anymore. She has spotted that. I use agreement whenever possible. I do hope for R of course, but I know I will ultimately be OK if it doesn't happen. My concern is how all this will ultimately affect the childhood of my children if we don't end up having R. That is what truly, really does hurt. I love them so much. They are very happy now but I feel like the wool has been pulled over their eyes. Once that is removed as they get older, where are all the family memories going to be of days out together at the park, the beach, the holidays etc. I never dreamed in my worst nightmares that we would end up here. Those children deserve the best - a happy, complete, united and loving family. I am not just fighting for my M, I am fighting for those children.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Hmmm...I've just been left a quite upbeat sounding message from W after I missed a call from her. It sounded like she was eating as she spoke. It went along these lines:

'Hi Alpha, it's only me. I just forgot what time you were picking them up (meaning the kids). I don't know whether you said two or three, or what time is was. Just let us know please, thanks, bye.'

I'm not reading much into it. It did cross my mind that her willingness to let me have the kids overnight tonight was simply so she could go out this evening rather than being stuck in once the kids go to bed. Whatever. On the face of it anyway, it's another positive communication from her. At this point that's got to be better than the random craziness I'd been getting from her a short while back.

Last edited by alpha99; 04/09/15 11:39 AM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
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I've waited the best part of an hour to call W back. I went for a walk around the park as I did. One, it is a nice day so why not. Two, I don't want to appear that I'm sat in the house doing nothing all the time.

We had a pleasant chat. She has bought the kids toys that they are going to use with me this afternoon - bat and ball etc. She basically wanted to know what time I was picking the kids up as she'd forgotten. She's changed her shift at work now and so dropping them off tomorrow has become 'whatever time suits you really.'

I am getting good at forming agreement with her each time we converse. I made a point of highlighting the nice weather here, how the kids would love to play with the new toys, that those particular toys were a good choice to buy etc etc. W is definitely responding positively to this as now one sentence answers are stretching to two or three, sometimes more. I'm upbeat and happy but without overdoing it or forcing conversation.

As nice as pleasant conversation is, I'm still skeptical of any new 'niceness' in her. It could simply come down to suiting herself.

As mentioned before, I am having the kids overnight tonight when I normally wouldn't. I am glad of more time with the kids of course. W has changed her shift tomorrow from an early to late. Going out tonight wouldn't be an issue for her now due to not having to go to work early tomorrow morning. I guess I shouldn't worry about it, it's up to her at this point what she does. I do wonder if I am being manipulated to suit her own ends though. Time will tell I suppose.

Last edited by alpha99; 04/09/15 12:23 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
I've waited the best part of an hour to call W back. I went for a walk around the park as I did. One, it is a nice day so why not. Two, I don't want to appear that I'm sat in the house doing nothing all the time.



Excellent! grin whistle


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Good job!

Now how are you doing on the "working on you" list?

Making progress on viewing your wife differently? (Not just keeping your mouth shut but actually NOT "keeping score" or judging her parenting)

Just remember you won't "nice her back" either so don't play doormat when it comes to favors she asks of you.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Hi Alpha, I agree with Twin about the 'doormat' advice.

You say your W is being pretty nice lately. Please don't start to feel this is a sign of change in your sitch. That is likely to take much longer, if it happens at all. It's much more likely that she wants you to co-operate on the sale of the house. By all means be pleasant in response, but plough your own furrow here...

Sounds like you are doing well though...


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Originally Posted By: twinmom
Good job!

Now how are you doing on the "working on you" list?

Making progress on viewing your wife differently? (Not just keeping your mouth shut but actually NOT "keeping score" or judging her parenting)

Just remember you won't "nice her back" either so don't play doormat when it comes to favors she asks of you.


Hi Twinmom,

I think I'm doing well. Upon picking the kids up today D5 had felt tip pen on her hands and a blocked up nose. I noticed both, only mentioned the pen to W in case she hadn't realised it was there, and left without thinking much about it at all really. There's work to do still of course but I am learning to let the small stuff go and not be so judgmental. I think I'm loosening up parent wise. I have always been very protective of the kids. Seeing the kids respond well to having a little more freedom (both in MIL's house and out and about) has led me to giving them a little more freedom. I guess I have my W to thank for that.

I'm aware I won't nice her back. My 'agreement' is a means of avoiding debate and argument. I won't go along with anything I don't agree with in the normal sense - only validate her thoughts to avoid an argument. She hasn't really asked for any favours. Well, a lift when I was going to town anyway. *More below.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Originally Posted By: Toots
Hi Alpha, I agree with Twin about the 'doormat' advice.

You say your W is being pretty nice lately. Please don't start to feel this is a sign of change in your sitch. That is likely to take much longer, if it happens at all. It's much more likely that she wants you to co-operate on the sale of the house. By all means be pleasant in response, but plough your own furrow here...

Sounds like you are doing well though...


Hi Toots,

Thanks for your words of caution. As I've said, I see no change of view at all regarding our sitch from W. She is nice regarding the kids, being a little more flexible and relaxed in general, and whilst they could be seen a good, positive things, I am well aware that she could be 'playing' me to get what she wants. I looked back at three months' old text messages last night by chance (phone went funny). It was a clear reminder that she has lied to me on a consistent basis for at least a good seven months now. I'm not going to be trusting of her actions or words for a long time.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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I'm tired now.

Had a great afternoon out with the kids involving ice cream, parks, football, knights and castles. The last two there stem from their imaginations.

W's friend is a different element in this. They're not particularly close friends - more neither of them has any other real friends it seems. W's friend most probably fancies me. In the recent past W had accused me of flirting with her (I wasn't, more just being polite to W's friend as you would do). W also claimed her friend was 'checking me out.' I did notice this and felt a bit uncomfortable. This friend also said I was a good guy outside school a few weeks ago. The whole thing there is a total non starter but I just hope she isn't doing any damage by cheerleading me to W.

*W tried to call and left VM about two hours ago asking if D5 could go to the cinema with her school friend and mum on Saturday. I have the kids Saturday. I don't know if this constitutes a favour but I'm not willing to give up my day with the kids to have half of it taken over by a cinema trip.

1) I've checked the kids' club films for Saturday and D5 has seen them all quite recently. 2) Kids' club is on almost every day over the Easter school holidays so picking another day when W should have the kids shouldn't be a major issue.

In fact, I'v just replied to W saying this:

'Hi W, I've just got your VM. I know D5 would enjoy the cinema. However, I have plans to go out for the day on Saturday with the kids'.

I was thinking along the lines of accepting it would be a nice thing for D5 but not agreeing to it, being direct in saying I had plans, but being vague and not revealing what those plans are. Finally, not making any apology.

**My computer just crashed. Thankfully this message I'm writing out was saved. In the meantime W has just replied**

W: Hi hope kids ok .. was going to text you back but thought you might be asleep . I told school friend's mum you will prob be taking them out and to rearrange next week when I'm available thanks for getting back to me.

I'm trying to think of a decent reply now before going to bed soon.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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M: 4.5yrs
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No need to reply to that.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Arghhh I wish I had listened to my first instinct, which was not to reply.

About 40 minutes after I received the text I did reply just saying:

Kids are fine, they had a good afternoon. D5 really loves her school friend doesn't she. She'll be made up when you tell her about the cinema trip next week.

I wish I hadn't now, though I don't think that particular text will have done much damage.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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M: 4.5yrs
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W's morning reply to my text: I know. she loves her sooo much awww.

Took the kids back. W invited me in 'for a few minutes'. (unusual). Kids played in the backyard and we just sat and chatted on the couch for around 15 minutes. W loosening up/slightly opening up to me. I paid her close attention when she spoke. I looked directly at her. We smiled looking at each other quite a few times, laughed over one or two minor things. We are getting on quite well - in a restricted sort of way.

W seemed to be fishing for me to mind the kids as MIL won't this morning whilst W wants to go and get a fake tan. I pointed out I am working today.

W: So, did you go out on Wednesday? Did you have a good time?
M: Yes, I did. It was excellent actually.

From the way she asked and her facial expression it clearly bothers her what I get up to. It's like she wants to test the water to see if I'm moving on. Maybe this has been brought about by stopping all pursuit. She doesn't know it was the Italian meet up. I didn't tell her. Let her wonder, I thought - be mysterious!

S6 was naughty for W when we returned. She asked how he'd been for me. Excellent, I said. 'So, he's just playing up for me then' was her reply. The accusations of spoiling the kids have stopped.

Her fake tan is prep for a night out tomorrow. She said it was a workmate's birthday. She went out of her way to explain that it was only girls from work going out. It was like she was speaking in code to say OM wouldn't be there. There's no way at any other time she would have made this point.

As like the other day, I gave W a lift back to town with the kids. It's not out of my way at all so no big favour or anything.

W asked if much stuff needs moving from our house before Monday. We discussed it briefly without issue.

Overall, a very pleasant interaction. The longest sustained nice conversation we've had since probably even way before BD. W saying please and thank you to little things - that's something new. W said to kids that 'daddy is very kindly going to give us a lift to town' for example. Lots of smiling amongst the general chit chat. W looking directly at me at times and smiling. I validated wherever possible.

Before I get carried away, there was no sense of anything other than us being nice and polite with each other. I'm fine with that. Before anything else could even potentially happen we'd need *a lot* of time just getting on with each other. W still talking about separate holidays, kids moving school to make it easier for her in future years - in other words plans for and by herself.

Incidentally, last few days show W listening to a few 'break up' songs via YouTube. I get the feeling they aren't being played for me. Who knows? I'm not reading anything into that.

I do think that the LRT is having some effect though. Like MWD says in DR, 'if you think it is working, don't get overly excited. Write it down in your journal...' That's what I'm doing here essentially, making a note of the things that have happened, W's reactions, the positive changes I see. If this was a marathon then we are only just limbering up before the starting pistol fires - there's a long way to go!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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I guess that's where mind reading gets you.

Remember me saying W looking at cars but has no interest in them? Turns out FIL is getting a new one - that matches her searches. Why she was looking in the middle of the night I have no idea.

That's a lesson for the future: don't read anything into online activity. W was listening to break up songs recently, but I saw earlier she was listening to a love song. Go figure!

Instead of wondering what every little thing means, I am trying to turn my attention to myself and the kids. I've had a good week GAL wise, enjoyed time with the kids, and I'm also back working again as of today. I had a pleasant interaction with W this morning...but I should just leave it as that - nothing more!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
Incidentally, last few days show W listening to a few 'break up' songs via YouTube.

You know this ...... how?


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Her YT account is still logged in on my phone from a long time ago if I visit YT via phone's browser. From there it is possible to see her search and view history.

In my follow up post I mentioned that she has also listened to a clear love song sometimes this morning.

I've got so many things wrong by trying to mind read that I am serious trying to give up it up.

I got the car searching wrong. I got her buying a football kit wrong. I bet I got the football match tickets wrong too. I am no longer placing any significance on what she views on her phone unless it is something clearly very, very specific.


EDIT: Intel overload today. As I was writing the above out seconds ago I got a text. W must have booked hair appointment for herself for tomorrow before her night out. I know this because the hairdressers just sent a reminder text for the appointment. My phone shows a few similar texts from a couple of years ago. W must have given my number in at some point in the past.

Last edited by alpha99; 04/10/15 03:04 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
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T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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Originally Posted By: alpha99


EDIT: Intel overload . . .



Indeed.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: alpha99


EDIT: Intel overload . . .



Indeed.


Is that a good thing or not Starksy? I am trying to strike a balance between having intel on what W is up to/status of A etc and at the same time not becoming obsessed and extrapolating widly/mind read over every bit of info I receive. Any suggestions on how to handle this?


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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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M: 4.5yrs
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
I am trying to strike a balance between having intel on what W is up to/status of A etc and at the same time not becoming obsessed and extrapolating widly/mind read over every bit of info I receive. Any suggestions on how to handle this?

Yes. Log out of her YT account on your phone.

You seriously think that what she searches on YT gives ANY indication of the state of her affair? Personally, I find it borderline creepy.

Your focus is way off.


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Originally Posted By: Drew
Originally Posted By: alpha99
I am trying to strike a balance between having intel on what W is up to/status of A etc and at the same time not becoming obsessed and extrapolating widly/mind read over every bit of info I receive. Any suggestions on how to handle this?

Yes. Log out of her YT account on your phone.

You seriously think that what she searches on YT gives ANY indication of the state of her affair? Personally, I find it borderline creepy.

Your focus is way off.



This. ^^^


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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OK, thanks for the advice. I will try to follow it. I will log out and (try not to ) not check again.

Obviously I could see all her view/search history. The whole thing was unintentional. I found out it was still logged in by accident. Previous searches included the name of OM, sexual content etc. I'm not saying saying her watching cats on skateboards is giving me any insight to her state of mind but I did wonder if any of her search terms might ever include keywords like 'affair', 'husband', 'how to divorce' etc.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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M: 4.5yrs
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
OK, thanks for the advice. I will try to follow it. I will log out and (try not to ) not check again.

There, fixed it.

Originally Posted By: alpha99
The whole thing was unintentional.

Really.

frown


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haha thanks for fixing it.

Yes, it really was unintentional. I guess that W had at some point used my phone to access her gmail account (linked to youtube) and it remained logged in. I only found out when at one time I googled something and got video search results, clicked on one, and was prompted to use YT app or browser. I clicked browser by mistake and later on noticed it wasn't my account. I never logged out and since then (many moons ago) it has of course remained logged in. Only post BD did I remember this and had a look at the view/search history.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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