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Originally Posted By: Mozza
Cadet | Thanks for the link to the MLC success stories. I have a tab open on them and I should get to them eventually. I should also check the piecing board for more recent examples, which can be encouraging to newcomers. As for linking, thanks for the reminder. My experience is that it is tolerated as long as it's not to a competing method or website, which I understand perfectly and avoid doing. By the way, I was thinking of formatting your welcome message with hyperlinked words to make it more compact and easier to read. Would it be of interest?

I think by strictest interpretation of the TOS outside links are not permitted.
If this has changed I am unaware of it.
Board Rules

As far as the hyperlinks, I could use those however it is my experience that some people like to copy and paste links and for some reason the forum can change some of those(copied links) to be unuseable, which is how I came up with what I do.
So I am not really sure of the right answer.

Anyways thanks for what you do do! smile

Last edited by Cadet; 03/30/15 01:15 PM. Reason: link

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So mozza, did you sleep on it?


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Interlude.

My parents-in-law gave me a very expensive watch as a wedding gift. It was highly symbolic because in the years prior, MIL shut out her only child for 2 years because she (they) disapproved of her relationship with me (long story, I was doomed at birth). This was a symbol of my acceptance, at last, in their family. I absolutely love the watch. It's beautiful, very comfortable and, yes, quite prestigious. I wear it every day.

I've been a little concerned since S that they would ask to have it back. Then last night I had a moment of clarity: I need to return it before they even ask. It's a constant reminder of my M and final acceptance in their family, while the M is over and their daughter has finally rejected me. It's also symbolic for me of saying that I am my own man and that If I want such a watch, I'll save for it and buy it myself. I had earned it as their son-in-law and I no longer have that role. Finally, I dislike the idea that I own something that they can ask me to return any time. It feels like I'm not really letting go of the M.

FIL is coming from abroad next week and I've asked for a chance to meet him. This would be the perfect opportunity to return the watch because I don't think I'll see him in person again before D (October, according to laws and WW desires). I'd take the opportunity to thank him profusely for the gift and the symbol of acceptance, then explaining why I return it. I'd expect him to be impressed in fact, because he's a self-made-man with a lot of pride.

Thoughts?


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Don't worry about his reaction. Do it for all the reasons you said at first. About yourself and what the action means to you. Nothing else really matters.


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So mozza, why are you returning the watch? You love the watch, its your watch.

You gave some good reasons above but the reasons you stated aren't the reasons I read (could just be me though)

If it's because you simply don't want it, could you gift it to charity? Why return it? And why in person?


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I'm not sure I understand, jim0987. It seems that I've answered your questions in my original post. Why do you say these aren't the reasons you read? They're not good reasons? You wonder if I'm hiding other reasons?

What I might add is that if it were another gift, something I don't have to wear on my wrist to use it, then maybe I'd consider keeping it. I'm not even sure because a painting on the wall would also be intruding. It seems ridiculous to me to give away, hide or sell a wedding gift.


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Mozza, would you read back what you just wrote and consider your tone for a minute?

I see the point of what you're saying to Jim, but I think you need to take a moment to read yourself from his perspective. Then please go back and read what you wrote about your FIL's possible reaction to the return of the watch from an outsider's perspective.


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Thanks Maybell. I did the exercise. Was my tone offensive? Maybe because I wrote that it would be "ridiculous" to do what jim0987 suggested? If so, I'll say that when I wrote it, I didn't really realize that jim0987 had suggested it, I was rather thinking about it these options as generic ones. I'm sorry if I was demeaning of jim0987's suggestions. Or maybe it's offensive for anyone here who has wedding gifts around the house? By the way, I wouldn't return any other of the gifts, but this one is so present and symbolic (price included) that I feel like a fraud keeping it (wait, am I digging my hole here?).

Honestly, I thought that jim0987 might have skipped a word or two in his sentence and that's why I was saying that I didn't understand. English is not my native language, so sometimes I can miss idioms or have some difficulties.

As for my FIL, I mentioned that he might be impressed to explain why it might go well in the long run. I expect him to resist at first, as anyone would do when you try to return a gift, but I think that the reasons I've given here, especially the one where I feel I no longer fulfill the role for which I was wearing the watch (husband) and I'll get one for myself, would go over well with him. He respects people who pull their weight.

Or do you and jim0987 expect that the return would be a personal affront because my FIL is proud? That he would be offended that I corner him with this return in person? That it would appear like some sort of revenge for the S? I shall add that if MIL rejected me for years, FIL was always softer and kept in touch with us all along (even coming for visits in person). Also, he gained a lot of respect for me and my hardworking ways in the last few years. He would always inquire about my business and in fact we've exchanged several emails since the S where he asks about it and chit chats about his own life. There's no bad blood between us.

I seem to come across wrong here and my tally of victims is stacking up lately - claire7, stacey9, Calibri, RAI, HeavyD, Barry, etc. My recent efforts to soften up might not have helped much. I more than welcome feedback on my tone. Thanks for taking the time.


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I'll chime in here, since I'm a victim of Mozza. :-)

First, I can understand why you may no longer want the watch. I myself have a few pieces of jewelry that my MIL has given to me in the past and I'm struggling with what to do with it. I actually had the same thought you had this morning in the shower, except that I would box it up and send back to her as I do not feel comfortable having the pieces while in limbo land, and I don't know if they are heirlooms or not.

But then I thought, it smacked of self righteousness on my end. It was a Gift, given to me (before we were even married), and to return (without them asking) would be rude and stir up a hornets nest that I don't frankly have the energy for. To me, returning the gift meant that I no longer held something they chose, and wanted to me to have as valuable. That I was throwing in the towel before it was all over. That I wanted to purge them from my life (and to be honest most days I do). In the end, I decided that I will keep it safe until such matters are solved between my H and I. If we are to divorce, I will evaluate, but right now it's doing no harm sitting where it is.


That being said, I interpret your words about this watch and your actions as two different things. they conflict to me. You love the watch. It's expensive. However, you worry that it will be taken away, thus you feel you need to return it as a symbol of your M being over. however in the next breath you mention that you have new symbolism with said watch and buying one like it for yourself?

But the icing on the cake is the returning it to your father in law in person with the assumption that he will be impressed. It just.....I don't know, it comes across to me as throwing back their acceptance of you back in their face. I, personally, don't view you giving the gift back as a way of showing growth, or whatever you're hoping to achieve with it. I view it as a way for you to passive aggressively dig at your W and or her family by returning an item, in person, none the less, to show them that you're "the better person" in all of this. It's sort of "look at me, look at my growth, I don't need your gifts I'll buy my own, because I'm the new Mozza."

It just comes across as cocky and arrogant and in turn, my perception of your response to Jim came off as critical because he (and myself as well) don't understand why you need to return the watch in person.

At the end of the day, return the watch in the way that you feel appropriate. But don't do it with a hidden agenda.

---
As for coming across wrong: I can't speak for others, but I can say that you have been a (very small) factor in why I haven't chosen to open up another thread, but rest assured it's like .00000000001% of the reason I haven't posted. To me, I find it odd that you often swoop in without reading peoples full sitchs but then go in and post your comments, which are often to the point and can be conceived as insensitive, rude, or harsh.

Don't get me wrong, I think you hit the nail on the head 90% of time and I believe you have keen sense of observation and offer some good advice. Where I think you could perhaps evaluate is your delivery method. The more you read peoples sitchs the more you get a sense of how they respond, converse, react. Some people need hand holding, some people need 2x4s, some people need a mix of both. I think refining your approach and using your best judgement on how to respond to people could be a good asset for you to work on. A one size doesn't always fit all here, and I think learning to soften your tone could go a long way.

I'm glad you're taking the opportunity to ask for feedback. That's a great step and an honorable one at that.


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Great post Calibri. My thoughts entirely.

Mozza. It was a gift. It was given unconditionally and as a token of respect for you. If you return it, your FIL may interpret it as rejecting their acceptance. And also, what is expensive for us may not even come into the equation for him.

If you find you cannot wear it for the moment, I would do as Calbri suggests and store it away until things resolve. But in my opinion, you should not return it.

-----------

Mozza, your organisational skills compiling those thread resources is just amazing. Many thanks for the time and effort you put in.

Last edited by Old Dog; 03/31/15 05:57 AM.

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PA Feb 2015 possibly sooner
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