Thanks guys. I feel much better. Might as well start a new thread. No link to old threads or back story. We'll let any newbies that start following me piece it together like Guy Pearce in Memento...maybe there's some benefits to no memory
rppfl. I love your point of view. It's funny, I go from thinking about how strongly I believe in working through the adversity in a M, then I feel the consequences of having a partner that didn't feel that way, and it's easy to get angry again. But I have been working on accepting that she doesn't view things that way, that's her choice, and it will be my choice to find someone that does before getting serious with someone else. NOTE- I have a good couple of years before that point, so time to grow for a while first!
25- yes. I know for sure many of my feelings are selfish. Broken pride. Pain of my loss. Frustration with STBX and God that I don't get what I want in my life. What's more, there is a lot of fear. My biggest fears are that I'm broken, that I'm incapable of being a good enough H to be able to pull off an effective M, and that I'll never be ok on my own because I'll always need someone else's love to make me feel I'm good enough because I feel insufficient. I've felt defeated at times, but I am confronting my "depression" because I learned that I used that feeling bad to try to manipulate others to feel bad for me or change their behavior. That's not who I want to be, and I am not one to be negative if I take away the controlling aspect of it. Point is- I am not burying my head in the sand and pretending I don't have some baggage to sort through. I've got some time though.
Claire- thanks for the good words. Trust me- I do feel I might be better off without STBX. That scares me too, because there again I feel like I'm somehow not being committed/loyal. But yeah, I got a glimpse of what it takes to make a M work: Two people committed to doing just that, and not succumbing to their feelings along the way. She isn't that person at this time, and neither of us were during the M. Just another sad M story.
Time for me to breathe in and out. Maybe I should post a little on some other threads and give back some of my wisdom :P
PS- this from a guy that misspelled my own screen name. That's right. It was supposed to be Zeus. I admit it. But now I like it that way.
Take care all and happy DBing!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Aww. This place starts to feel like family. Thanks for checking in on me!
I'm ok. Today I was very sick, but that's ok. I just kept going back to sleep again and again. I was a little loopy and it helped me get a different perspective on a few things.
First off, I will admit I still think of my STBX often. Maybe not the person she is at times, but the person she used to be, the person I thought she was, the person I wished she had been. My mind is still drawn towards the thoughts of where her journey has taken her. Sometimes I hope she's suffering for her choices, mostly I just hope she finds what she needs in life.
I try to turn my thoughts back to me. I will tell you, I am really questioning who I want to be now. All of my life I have been a competitor. Honestly, I did it because I thought I'd be admired for being the best. I always imagined myself with my W in my corner rooting me on, proud of her husband for what he'd accomplished. The truth is that never happened. I look back at endless days and nights practicing pool and wonder sometimes why I needed to do all of that.
I think I find it difficult to GAL. I play a lot of online poker. I like to play chess. I like to play pool still. And I study those games. I don't know how to explain it...it's all I know how to do. My whole life I never wondered "what should I do tonight"? The answer was always to drill, train, study, practice. So I find myself doing the same thing out of inertia.
It's funny, I'm a sales professional and people think I'm outgoing and confident. But I'm really introverted. I am a bit different than others. I don't really want to go do new things. I'd rather study chess problems or discuss the way I played a hand of poker with my road partner.
Rambling...point is, I feel I'm not changing much, and it may be slowing my detachment that I'm still doing these same things. On the other hand, it seems to be who I am. I played pool before I met my wife, and when I have a cue in my hand I feel like I know who I am.
And I'm really not interested in whether my STBX or anyone else finds that attractive or not. Anyone that wants a normal guy can go find themselves a normal guy. I'm a bit eccentric, but I'm also quite exceptional in some ways and have a lot of love to give.
Oh- If I haven't mentioned it before, the word people use to describe me is "intense". People I just meet for 5 minutes use that word. It's always that exact word. "Intense". I think STBX was anxious around me because I was so driven. You have to be a little crazy to devote your life to a game. There are things I can change, 180s I can do, but I don't see this part of me changing. It really is how I'm wired. (I can be sensitive to how others perceive me, I can not apply my standards to their behavior...I can steer my intensity...but I can't abort it altogether).
Last edited by Zues126; 04/01/1502:52 AM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
we don't have to change every aspect our of lives. The GAL is to help you to detach. Is there any sort of compromise to what you're used to doing? Could you meet some guy friends at a local bar for a few beers while playing a game of pool? Maybe as you slowly incorporate new changes into your life they will start to stick. You shouldn't expect to climb a mountain in one day, tackle it day by day.
It's funny how are personalities in our careers can differ from who we are at home.
One of the docs at my work recently told me I was bossy! I laughed and said I'm not sure if I should be offended. He said it was a compliment in our field of work and I would be his first choice to take care of his children.
However, bossy doesn't work in every aspect of my life. Maybe you being 'intense' has a time and a place. Would that be a 180?
Aww. This place starts to feel like family. Thanks for checking in on me!
I'm ok. Today I was very sick, but that's ok. I just kept going back to sleep again and again. I was a little loopy and it helped me get a different perspective on a few things.
First off, I will admit I still think of my STBX often. Maybe not the person she is at times, but the person she used to be, the person I thought she was, the person I wished she had been. My mind is still drawn towards the thoughts of where her journey has taken her. Sometimes I hope she's suffering for her choices, mostly I just hope she finds what she needs in life.
I try to turn my thoughts back to me. I will tell you, I am really questioning who I want to be now. All of my life I have been a competitor. Honestly, I did it because I thought I'd be admired for being the best. I always imagined myself with my W in my corner rooting me on, proud of her husband for what he'd accomplished. The truth is that never happened. I look back at endless days and nights practicing pool and wonder sometimes why I needed to do all of that. This^^ sounds very familiar to me. My h was a veterinarian who then went to medical school and beyond..."always striving, never arriving".
He deferred gratification for so long, I think it all just snapped when he approached 50.
The thing is, yes I was VERY proud of his accomplishments & described him as "the hardest working man" I knew. But when it comes to raising kids and being a partner, it got wearing.
The children are very good at many things but only now & then are they "the best". And that felt like failure to them, in their dad's eyes. It was as if he was telling them that it was "all or nothing". Perhaps if they'd seen him enjoy the journey, they would have sought the same destination. But it just looked like a lot of "labor intensive Away from home" work to them.
Our son once said this, about the lifestyle changes that came with more income. "All I knew growing up was that dad worked a lot and now he still works a lot - but the cars are nicer and the house is bigger."
None of them pursued careers in medicine. At the age of 12, our son said "Dad, sorry but I don't think I can be a doctor with you, b/c doctors don't have much time with their families."
Even though SOME doctors do manage their time well, for a 12 y/o to say that, would change some parents.
I think I find it difficult to GAL. I play a lot of online poker. I like to play chess. I like to play pool still. And I study those games. I don't know how to explain it...it's all I know how to do. My whole life I never wondered "what should I do tonight"? The answer was always to drill, train, study, practice. So I find myself doing the same thing out of inertia. Never underestimate the power of inertia. Overcoming that will be a huge, valuable life skill.
It's funny, I'm a sales professional and people think I'm outgoing and confident. But I'm really introverted. I am a bit different than others. I don't really want to go do new things. I'd rather study chess problems or discuss the way I played a hand of poker with my road partner.
Rambling...point is, I feel I'm not changing much, and it may be slowing my detachment that I'm still doing these same things. On the other hand, it seems to be who I am. I played pool before I met my wife, and when I have a cue in my hand I feel like I know who I am. And I'm really not interested in whether my STBX or anyone else finds that attractive or not. Anyone that wants a normal guy can go find themselves a normal guy. I'm a bit eccentric, but I'm also quite exceptional in some ways and have a lot of love to give. I'd equate eccentric with "interesting" and I'd mean it. I doubt I'm alone.
Oh- If I haven't mentioned it before, the word people use to describe me is "intense". People I just meet for 5 minutes use that word. It's always that exact word. "Intense". I think STBX was anxious around me because I was so driven. You have to be a little crazy to devote your life to a game. There are things I can change, 180s I can do, but I don't see this part of me changing. It really is how I'm wired. (I can be sensitive to how others perceive me, I can not apply my standards to their behavior...I can steer my intensity...but I can't abort it altogether).
My advice, fwiw, would be to give yourself a break. Start with that and maybe learn to meditate.
RELAX but most importantly, if you don't want to change OR if you believe you cannot (which is not true)
be very mindful of how your intensity affects others. If you raise them "up" in their energy levels
AND IF they are truly fine with that, be grateful but never expectant.
I can enjoy being influenced by someone else, a lot.
But I don't want them to expect it of me.
Make sense? It'll be a lot easier on the both of you (and your kids) if you can learn to vary the pace a bit.
Might even make it more interesting.
Also, Do Not equate "less intense" with "less concern" or "less ambitious".
Being intense CAN mean being hyper, and with an "intense" temperament, can be seen as domineering or controlling.
Maybe you can add or develop some other traits to balance out the intensity, rather than muting it.
Like making sure to give praise to others who are Not competing, or not asking them to join/explore/study/visit/DO
the things and places you do.
Because when that happens to a child, they usually see it as a test they cannot hope to win.
Example, our children write well. Many times h would say "why don't you enter that story into a contest/mail it to the studio/submit it for a screening?"
To the child, it felt as if they had written a lovely story "for nothing" if it wasn't turned into a "victory" of some sort. My h is very competitive. If he only applied that trait to himself, it would probably still influence them but there'd be a mixed bag b/c some of it IS good.
I'm not complaining about my h (well damn, maybe I am, but that's not the point I'm trying to make!! )
so much as I'm trying to show you how an "intense" parent can help create a child who feels less than.
So if you want to embrace your intensity, fine. Just be very mindful of not applying it to others. We each have a different drummer within, and we should walk to the beat of that drummer, not someone else's.
But so you know Zeus (Zues), I think you've done very well in the reflective area.
(Gee, so I guess YOU WIN!! Kidding... )
Seriously, there's a lot of powerful BRAVE insights there, and courage is mandatory to making a marriage work b/c a lot of forgiveness goes on in a healthy m
and forgiving takes courage, AS DOES ASKING for forgiveness.
An older happily married couple said something like this on TV last night: "A good, lasting marriage means 2 people who ask for forgiveness on a daily basis".
In hindsight, that's^^^ very true.
Of course, GIVING the forgiveness is key too. Maybe you can begin with yourself.
Keep on keeping on.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
First off, thank you all so much. I went a few months without posting much because I thought I was doing well and wasn't getting a lot of replies other than a one off here or there. Having people actually follow my sitch is really impactful and motivating. It just feels different and I appreciate the support.
T0, it's very funny. When I read your comment about playing pool over a beer with some buddies I just was like...that's not how I play pool, I play pool like it was life and death and give 110% to doing everything I can to win BUT- you do hit something on the head...I've made friends with a lot of pool players, and I have been spending time with them AWAY from the pool table. Yes, sometimes I am still talking strategy and working on my game, but I am also going to a movie on Saturday with one of them, and have introduce a couple to my kids (two came to my daughters birthday) so I am trying to just "live some life" with them instead of it being 100% about working on my break shot or something. Also- I have been watching the occasional TV show for fun. Like once a week. At first I thought it was cool to never watch TV, because I felt like that was "wasted time". I'm starting to realize that it's ok in moderation, and even potentially GAL if I'm watching the same shows as a friend of mine or something. Finally, I'm getting some "recreational" books. The last 5 I've read were all poker related, excluding "the fighter's mind" which tells how UFC fighters train. I am sharing this to try to give a glimpse at what I'm talking about when I say I am always working.
So GAL is actually doing ok. And though I'm introverted I'm open to meeting new people. I even went to a couple of happy hours with my co-workers (never used to do that) to try to mingle, although that's the only time I'll ever have a beer. Not really my scene I guess, but I'm trying! Another reason that wasn't easy for me is I don't really like being around other women because I feel like even though I'm not looking or ready I don't want to be around available single women. I'm not sure if I have a "personality disorder" per se, maybe...but boundaries are very tricky for me. I have a couple of REALLY close friends, then people in the background. That's why I've always shied away from other women while I was M. And that's why I've only had 2 women in my life, and hope that it remains at 2 or holds at 3! I read about guys talking about all the dates they are going on and I'm NOT jealous. I read about a 50 year M and I am INSPIRED!
25, I appreciate you saying that. I'm guessing my STBX felt the same way in terms of appreciating what I did but just being frustrated at how difficult that made things much of the time. One area I do WELL at is shielding my kids...they don't have to be the best at everything all the time, and they don't have to follow dad's footsteps. In fact, sometimes I think it's a positive that I've achieved so much success in my life I don't need to "live through my kids". They can do what they want, I'm having fun on my own! But seriously, I don't push them to play pool, or compete, or anything. And I RARELY focus on results. Instead, I focus on what they brought in terms of their APPROACH. For example, when my son did his homework I didn't compliment him on how "smart" he was (though he's a genius ) Instead I complimented him on his "focus", and how he didn't allow himself to get distracted. When my daughter paints a picture I don't talk about how "realistic" it looks, instead I talk about how I was proud she didn't give up even though she had been frustrated in the beginning of a mistake, but that she had instead kept going and found a way to work it in and make it part of the bigger picture, and by doing so she ended up with a beautiful picture! Point is instead of focusing on the results, and more specifically how the results could have been better, I focus on what internal success traits they displayed, and celebrate their successes.
There's more. I make time to be "laid back" with my kids. In fact, if anything they're too much like me and I'm trying to teach them young that it's good to be able to shift gears and just chill a bit. I'll cut that short, there's more to it (I used "hyperdrive" mode as an escape/defense mechanism, I'm seeing my son do the same thing, so I'm also trying to help him deal with the stuff he's trying to escape from so he CAN slow down).
So with my kids although I have plenty of room for growth I am very proud of how I'm doing as a dad. You wouldn't have even RECOGNIZED me from the dad I was a year ago. In part, I've HAD to step up both because if I didn't I would lose access to them, and in part because I HAD to because I couldn't always count on STBX to be taking care of everything like I believed in the past. And partly because I've been free to be the dad I want to be without fear of criticism and conflict from my STBX (this is a BIG deal, she is very controlling in the parenting department and I was intimidated by her).
In my M my intensity was a MUCH bigger issue. The funny part is that most of the time I just got run over all of the time. See, in the rest of my life I'm such a juggernaut that I was afraid of running my W over. I didn't want to be the "A type" personality that just didn't let her have her own voice. So instead I feel like I did the opposite. I didn't speak up. I was afraid of conflict. I let her have the final say in almost all decisions. It got to be funny, here I was crushing it in everything else in my life, but afraid to voice my opinion in my very home. But I found out that the opposite of controlling is not to be speechless, but to be "collaborative".
This is something that I need to improve at. I was never much of a team player, because frankly no one could ever match what I brought. That's why I play pool/chess/poker...
The short term problem is that I am pretty much "lawyer only" with my STBX at this point so there's limited opportunity to practice this with HER. Maybe I could've handled things differently and this is actually another example of my "collaboration fail"...hard to know. I checked with my IC and DB Coach and they both felt I was handling it ok and that there's a point when you have to protect yourself against a "loose cannon" (DB Coaches words).
But my DB coach told me to work on my R skills in INTERPERSONAL relationships such as friends/family, and how that's a good gauge of my growth. So I'm working on both speaking up, setting good boundaries, voicing my beliefs with conviction...while still making sure I see the other person's point of view, am willing to compromise and pick my battles, and accept imperfection.
Once again, a long post, but in recap- I'm making SOME progress on 180s, my intensity, and my collaboration...and I APPRECIATE you for the support along the journey!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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) Instead I complimented him on his "focus", and how he didn't allow himself to get distracted. When my daughter paints a picture I don't talk about how "realistic" it looks, instead I talk about how I was proud she didn't give up even though she had been frustrated in the beginning of a mistake, but that she had instead kept going and found a way to work it in and make it part of the bigger picture, and by doing so she ended up with a beautiful picture! Point is instead of focusing on the results, and more specifically how the results could have been better, I focus on what internal success traits they displayed, and celebrate their successes.