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#2552616 03/30/15 11:08 PM
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My dh and I met in 1999 - his wife was dying of cancer and I was just out of a 12 year relationship (me 44, dh 47). I had 2 kids, and he had 2 kids. His wife died in early 2000, and shortly after that I found out I was pregnant (although preventative measures were in place). My life changed in an instant. We moved in together and had four kids and one on the way.

My kids struggled with my divorce, his kids struggled with the death of their mom. But, we made things work. It wasn't long before I started noticing little things about dh. I'd want to go over to my family's place, and he didn't want to go. There was something 'off' with one of his kids, and he didn't want to face it or deal with it. When we went out with all the kids, he would get frustrated, and then avoid taking them all out together. I'd want to make some 'couple' friends, and he wasn't interested. At some point told me he didn't like meeting new people.

When we met, he told me about all the activities he had done, the friends he had, how he spent time with family, etc. etc., yet I was seeing none of that. He couldn't deal with anything 'negative' with the kids, so I did all the doctor/dentist appointments, teacher talks (at age 12 one of his kids was finally diagnosed with ASD, which explained a lot, however this was 7 years after I'd become his parent). He preferred to stay home and watch movies, while I wanted to get out and see friends, or take the kids out.

DH is very talented - writing, art, music, you name it. I encouraged him to do all these things.

After our youngest turned 18mos, we knew we needed a second income, so I went back to work full time. The cost of childcare was huge - and eventually we realized that after dh was paid, and money went out for daycare, it was only giving us a few hundred dollars. So because I had a better paying job, he quit to stay home. I told him in three months I'd like to see him starting his own business. Also that he'd have to take care of household stuff and appts that I had always done. Three years later, he still wasn't working, no business, and I was still responsible for bills, kid appts,

I was laid off work in early 2005, and started applying for jobs. Also told him he needed to try and find something. Thankfully I had a good severance, and went on employment insurance. I finally had found a government job, and had to wait for security clearances. Finally, my mom told us that the place she worked needed someone part time in the warehouse, and would eventually be full time. So he went in for an interview and started there, and has been there since. Not making great money, but he works hard, and he goes.

He has always been loving and kind to me. I know he loves me very much, and would do 'almost' anything for me. However he would come home from work, and sit in front of the TV, or computer, or on his phone. So our 20yo kid with ASD, does the same. Finally graduated last year, but doesn't work, doesn't keep up on hygiene, plays the computer.

DH expresses desire to do outdoorsy things, but doesn't. I make plans, go out with friends, do things with some of the kids. Every now and again we get together with the one couple he is okay with.

I love him, and care about him, however am not in love with him. He has so many issues/anxieties and he will NOT get help. He hasn't been to a doctor or dentist since long before I've known him. I haven't kissed him in at least 2 years (which devastates him) and our sex life is about once every few months, if that. He has such issues with doctors, he has even refused to get life insurance because he doesn't want to see a doctor or get tests (fear of finding out something is wrong).

Had a big talk with him about a week ago stating I"m not happy, and not in love, that I had been trying to figure out what $$ would be left if we sold the house and each got our own place.

He was smart, in that over the next few days he gave me space. I needed to think and was so confused. After some research on the internet, I found somewhere that said "if you are confused, you aren't ready to divorce". I felt better reading that, because I was feeling I needed to do something right away.

We talked again Saturday night. He had been great all week, cleaning up the house, running errands, all stuff he would never do in the past (at least willingly).

I have talked to him about my unhappiness for YEARS. Last time was 6 months ago, and the year before that, and a few years before that.

I've done things to better my life. I became a Hypnotherapist, started exercising, going out, doing yoga...just trying to live happily. But when I walk through the door at home, it's like there is a dark cloud.

So our talk the other night, he said he didn't want to see a marriage counsellor, as he had a hard time even telling me things, and he trusts me more than anyone. When I brought up seeing a dentist and getting life insurance (in my eyes, those are deal breakers), he put up a big wall. He can't even see how he can get to a point of doing anything about those things. He has agreed to try hypnotherapy (which he said last time, and only did one session). I said that HE had to arrange it with me, I wasn't going to bug him about doing it.

Things felt better yesterday, but today I have questions again. I don't know that he actually agreed to anything concrete. Having had these talks so much over the years, I don't believe he CAN do things he says he will.

Oh, and also he indicated that if we were to separate, he only needed a one bedroom simple place. I said what about the kids? (His 2 are 24 and 20, and still live with us, the elder going to university and the younger is the one with ASD) He figured they wouldn't live with him. We also have an amazing 14yo. I said I couldn't believe he would just do that to the kids, and wouldn't he want space for them. He told me he wouldn't want anyone else ever. At some point, he also said "I want to die" (he wouldn't actually commit suicide as he's too afraid of everything and can't swallow pills). I was upset and mad saying he should be ashamed for putting that on me.

So I have made an appt to see a counsellor myself, however I still feel lost. He won't see a marriage counsellor because he "has a hard enough time telling you things, and I trust you more than anyone". I love and care for him. He is my best friend. I like sharing with him. However, I feel I've been held back from so many things. I can't imagine retiring with him. I feel emotionally 'divorced' in a way already.

I don't want to spend another couple years in the same place.

I'm curious to hear from others. I know it seems most on here are dealing with fighting, infidelity, money issues, etc. I feel I'm trying to be patient, however I've been very patient. We are coming up to our 14 year anniversary. I don't really 'want' a divorce, however I can't imagine spending the rest of my life with him.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2552619 03/30/15 11:21 PM
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Danigirl, glad you found this board. Some good advice will be coming your way shortly, what I can say for now is:

-Slow down. Don't look ahead at the next 30 years. Focus on the next 30 days for now.
-Read DB/DR. They talk a lot about the depressed spouse.

I can tell you I was depressed in my M. Funny thing, once my STBX left I started doing much better. I found out that I was using my depression as a way to control her behavior, and that she was kind of enabling it. It was a weird co-dependent dance that wasn't good for either of us. I'm much stronger and brighter than she ever could've imagined, but now it's a moot point.

I ask you to have faith that change beyond your wildest imagination is possible. And we here on DB believe that even if some things do not change, that's not your H, that's just life being imperfect.

Stick around and thanks for taking M seriously!


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2552620 03/30/15 11:23 PM
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2380415&page=1

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063&fpart=1

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
Zues126 #2552622 03/30/15 11:26 PM
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Thank you Zeus, I haven't read the book, I thought it was more for people trying to get a spouse back. If they have things in there regarding someone with depression, it'll be a book I get/order tonight.

I'm happy to hear you are better! I have lived with depression since a teen, and medication in my 20's made me a different person. I know it's a difficult road.

And thank you for your response. I really needed to know that others had gone or are going through something similar.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2552674 03/31/15 02:28 AM
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After reading many posts, and the writeup about divorce busting, wondering if this is the right place for me. Being that Im the one considering separation, but also wanting to make sure Ive done everything I can to try and make things work. Seems most on here are those who are being separated from?

It seems like much doesn't apply as Im not trying to get my spouse to stay, I'm trying to get Me to stay.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2552675 03/31/15 02:30 AM
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Find Sandi's original posts.

Sandi, can you jump in here?


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2552679 03/31/15 02:54 AM
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I'm no expert on anything, but I can tell you a few things, as someone who suffered from mild depression and moderate anxiety. Most people didn't have any idea how badly I was suffering. People at work would probably have said that I got stressed easily, and many folks would have said that I tended to see the negative side of things (still working on that...). My H was the only one who thought there was something really wrong with me... and even he didn't realize how tormented I was.

He encouraged me to get help. But I felt powerless to do so. The thought of speaking to a therapist, of telling my story, felt so overwhelming. I spent time trying to find a therapist that I thought would fit into my schedule, and was on our insurance. It felt like an impossible task. I called one IC, she never called back. It took me 3 months to try to call someone else.

The fact that you are still hanging in there with your M says a lot about you. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that depression is a very real medical condition and one of the symptoms is that a depressed person has a lot of trouble seeking help.

It's treatable, and I hope your H gets help.
Hang in there.


Me 38 H 40
D 3
T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

claire7 #2552681 03/31/15 03:08 AM
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Danigirl, people here might challenge you but that doesn't mean you're in the wrong place. I agree, you need to talk to Sandi, she's been through some of what you're feeling.

I am not saying you should leave him, but it sounds like you have additional circumstances challenging your marriage. I understand ASD has genetic components -- is it possible he shares traits with his son, rather than simply modeling them?

What makes you want to stay besides the kids?

Please keep posting and I hope things get better soon.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Maybell #2552683 03/31/15 03:26 AM
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Claire, thank you for your response. Ive dealt with depression since a teen, and them post partum (they called it double depression), so I completely understand what you are talking about. I've always said I thought he has depression, however he he doesnt think he really does. He definitely has anxiety issues. But it's his fear if visiting a doctor that stops him from seeking help.

I want him to get help, as I know what a difference meds made for me!

Thank you again for responding, I hope you are on the winning side of the depresdion battle!


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Maybell #2552685 03/31/15 03:39 AM
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Hi Danigirl,

You are here, so likely you are exactly where you need to be.You will find many of us here have been either side of the depression/anxiety coin, either we manage it ourselves or we manage our S. Sometimes we managing both.

There is a lot of support, wisdom and experience here to support you, stay and take advantage. On the days you need your emotional bucket filled up, there will be someone here to oblige. On the days you need a reality check, that too will be provided...lol

The kindness and humanity here is life affirming.

Keeping posting, there is a way through.


Warm hugs Danigirl!

Last edited by JellyB; 03/31/15 03:44 AM.
Maybell #2552693 03/31/15 04:39 AM
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Hi Maybel, thank you for responding. He definitely has traits of ASD. Ive told him that many times. Its also partvof wht he understands DS so well, but because of this, does push DS to move fowsrd with life. Currently DS is in collections for not paying nedical2 (we are in Canada). I can't get him to call them, I can't get him to do much of anything, only DH can.

Why I stay. I love and care for him. He is a good man, and the kids love him. My 2 from my first M think he is the best step dad ever. I have 2 kids who lost a parent, 2 who've been through divorce, I rreally don't want to cause nore disruption for everyone. He woyld never say anything to hurt me, even in anger. So I sometimes feel crazy for even considering separation. But you may notice i signed up here in 2008, so it's neen that long that Ive been trying to navigate our life together. Does that make sense?


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Maybell #2552809 03/31/15 03:07 PM
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Finally looked up Sandi2's first post - it's eerily familiar. I look forward to reading more of her story.


Last edited by Danigirl; 03/31/15 03:09 PM.

Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
JellyB #2552872 03/31/15 05:41 PM
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Found this posted by Ceiri (sp?) on Sandi's story - definitely part of what I needed to see.
--------------
This story tells us something about LOVE & LIFE.

My husband is S/W Engineer by profession, I love him for his steady nature and I love the warm feeling when I lean against his broad shoulders.

Two years of courtship and now, five years into marriage, I would have to admit, that I am getting tired of it. The reasons of me loving him before, has now transformed into the cause of all my restlessness.

I am a sentimental woman and extremely sensitive when it comes to a relationship and my feelings. I yearn for the romantic moments, like a little girl yearning for candy. My husband is my complete opposite; his lack of sensitivity, and the inability of bringing romantic moments into our marriage has disheartened me about LOVE.

One day, I finally decided to tell him my decision, that I wanted a divorce.

"Why?" he asked, shocked.

"I am tired. There are no reasons for everything in the world!" I answered.

He kept silent the whole night, seemingly in deep thought. My feeling of disappointment only increased. Here was a man who was not able to even express his predicament, so what else could I expect from him?

And finally he asked me: "What can I do to change your mind?"

Somebody said it right... It's hard to change a person's personality, and I guess, I have started losing faith in him.

Looking deep into his eyes I slowly answered: "Here is the question. If you can answer and convince my heart, I will change my mind.

Let's say, I want a flower located on the face of a mountain cliff, and we both are sure that picking the flower will cause your death. Will you do it for me?"

He said: "I will give you your answer tomorrow...." My hopes just sank by listening to his response.

I woke up the next morning to find him gone, and saw a piece of paper with his scratchy handwriting underneath a milk glass, on the dining table near the front door, that goes....

My dear, "I would not pick that flower for you, but....please allow me to explain the reasons further.....

This first line was already breaking my heart. I continued reading.

"When you use the computer you always mess up the Software programs, and you cry in front of the screen. I have to save my fingers so that I can help to restore the programs.

You always leave the house keys behind, thus I have to save my legs to rush home to open the door for you.

You love traveling but always lose your way in a new city. I have to save my eyes to show you the way.

You always have the cramps whenever your "good friend" approaches every month. I have to save my palms so that I can calm the cramps in your tummy.

You like to stay indoors, and I worry that you will be infected by infantile autism. I have to save my mouth to tell you jokes and stories to cure your boredom.

You always stare at the computer, and that will do nothing good for your eyes. I have to save my eyes so that when we grow old, I can help to clip your nails and help to remove those annoying white hairs. So I can also hold your hand while strolling down the beach, as you enjoy the sunshine and the beautiful sand...and tell you the colour of flowers, just like the colour of the glow on your young face...

Thus, my dear, unless I am sure that there is someone who loves you more than I do... I could not pick that flower yet, and die ... "

My tears fell on the letter, and blurred the ink of his handwriting... and as I continue on reading... "Now, that you have finished reading my answer, and if you are satisfied, please open the front door for I am standing outside bringing your favorite bread and fresh milk...

I rushed to pull open the door, and saw his anxious face, clutching tightly with his hands, the milk bottle and loaf of bread....Now I am very sure that no one will ever love me as much as he does, and I have decided to leave the flower alone...

That's LIFE, and LOVE. When one is surrounded by love, the feeling of excitement fades away, and one tends to ignore the true love that lies in between the peace and dullness.

Love shows up in all forms; even in very small and cheeky forms. It has never been a model. It could be the dullest and most boring form ...

Flowers, and romantic moments are only used and appear on the surface of the relationship. Under all this, the pillar of true love stands... AND THAT'S LIFE


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2552880 03/31/15 06:10 PM
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I remember that story as well.

I'm sick today. Everything is spinning. I'm tired and a bit emotional. So I'll share another one.

I think it's interesting to note how often arranged marriages worked out. To me it proves its not who you get as a partner, it's what you do with them. Please take a moment for this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_y9F5St4j0


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2553015 04/01/15 01:03 AM
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If you read my story, then you will see that I am also a nearly WAW. Sandi warned me that there were not many posters here that are potential WAS but who are not wayward. You can read her words and that of MrBond in thread 1 of my story. You can read how low I was and close to disintegration, my recent posts are much much stronger. this is a journey for me to grow and learn.

By not being wayward I mean that I am not in an A or even considering one. Most of the posters on the board are either wayward or dealing with a cheating spouse. This is not me, I am faithful to my vows. I am using DB and standing for myself. When I first came to the board I was deeply down and being regularly abused by my H. It took roughly 8 months of DB to turn my attitude about myself around. Occasionally I get accused of being too positive! My cup in half full kind of girl. It has been hard work, but the one I have put most effort into is myself, not my H or my M but me.

I am likely to still walk away but I will know I put a great deal into resolving my issues. I am quite clear that the only one that I can change is me. Love is a choice, I know now that I love my H. I may never understand that and it has taken a long time to embrace that. I truly believe that when I let go of my desire to hang on to the H that was and embraced the H that is, my higher spiritual power gave back the capacity to love. I am a channel for it.

So, are you in the right place? I asked myself that as in essence who I was did not fit, a woman who wanted out of her M but was not having an EA or PA?

A deeply troubled abused woman with no life and her world completely grey. It is very different today. DB is for me, to help me learn to cope with my life. I can truly say that the kindness, love and support given to me by the generous DBers here may well have saved my sanity and health.

Come on in and swim the water is warm..........
V

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/01/15 01:08 AM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Zues126 #2553164 04/01/15 02:42 PM
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Zues126, I'm sorry to hear you were having a difficult day yesterday. I went back and was reading some of your story.

I think the growth you are doing, and the work you are doing on yourself is amazing - keep it up! I haven't had a chance to look at the link you posted (worked OT last night, and back at it this morning) but I will.

Thank you for your continued messages. One of the best things about this place is having a sounding board, and knowing that people are really listening.

D.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2553221 04/01/15 04:47 PM
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Dani, I think you are M to my H! I can sympathize with you on soooo many levels, including having grown kids living in your home.

My H and I got M a couple of months after his father died, and I was too immature to realize he needed more time to grieve. One month after M, I got pregnant. We were also living in the house with MIL (which usually was filled with relatives/friends). So, yeah, peachy-keen for newlyweds.

Like your H, mine never wanted to do anything or go anywhere. As long as he could watch TV and we had sex, life was fine for him. But I was still a teenager and was having to adjust to way too much too fast.

After our baby was born, I suffered with postpartum depression, and really have had bouts of depression most of my adult life. I have had to take medication for a long time, but you know.....it's better than living with that horrible feeling. Sometimes we can control the "blues" but depression is often beyond what we can control and we have to get help.

Anyway, my feelings for my H with south pretty quickly. My H was not one to make conversation. I, on the other hand, grew up watching my parents talk about everything. I thought that was what M people was suppose to do! I would tell him how desperately I needed him to share his thoughts and feelings with me. Nothing.....zilt. He had no clue about emotional intimacy. His answer to any of my R talks was that we should have more sex. You can imagine how that set with me.

So, our MR was up and down for many, many years. We had a child with a lifelong disease, and it added so much stress to us and our M. Of course, we struggled financially and had other problems that took its toll. Finally, (and the story is simply too long to tell) we stopped having sex and he preferred to fall asleep watching.....you guessed it....TV, instead of going to bed the same time as I did. And Dani, that one action of his had continued from the first month of marriage! If he went to be "with" me, I knew it was to have sex. Afterwards, he would go watch TV. I could not understand why he couldn't see the negative effect it had in our R.

After decades of all of this, I hit a crises, emotionally. I was a nervous breakdown waiting to happen. But before I broke completely down, I took time out to have an EA.

So yeah, not only did I have the WAW heart, I was a wayward wife. I believe there are two types of WAW's. One type is wayward and the other isn't, but it makes a world of difference in those two women.

I will get back with you shortly. I'm in a rush at the moment, but a little bird told me to take a look at your thread. I'm glad I did, b/c I want to tell you that you aren't alone.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2553239 04/01/15 05:26 PM
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Vanilla and Sandi2, thank you so much for your time!

To answer a question, yes there was an EA/PA in there, back in 2011, for about 5 months. It tempted me to leave (more than I was already thinking about it). Thankfully, I was somewhat intelligent enough to remind myself it's all fantasy, and not real life. H found out, but wanted to stay. It was a hard time, as at first, I said I wasn't ready to just cut the OM out of my life, I needed time. So a couple weeks, and some emails and a final meeting to say goodbye, it was done. I was depressed - he was a nice man, and had provided some much needed emotional support and sexual satisfaction that I wasn't getting at home.

I don't condone this, I know it was wrong on so many levels. At the time, I felt just as trapped - was trying to be supportive to H, while helping a son with ASD, while dealing with an XH and his wife (whole other story there) regarding kids, as well as taking care of 90% of household duties AND working full time. I was bound to crack at some point. I had cracked before in 2007(breakdown of sorts). I felt so awful about hurting H. The hurt in his eyes just about broke my heart. So on top of all the existing stress, I had now hurt H and was, of course, being very negative towards myself (negative thinking).

I'm finding this to be such an up/down week. I have a counselling apt tomorrow to help me work out my emotions and how I want to be during this process.

Yesterday I asked H for time to talk tonight. He wanted to know why, which I thought was odd. I said that we need to keep talking. That there were a couple things he had said that bothered me (that he wanted to die, and that he would get a place only big enough for himself if we separated - meaning not take the boys with him). I also said that I wanted to know what he was committed to doing to help the M. I advised I was seeing a counsellor, and that I was looking up information on the internet and was showing commitment to trying to figure things out, however he hadn't actually committed to anything.

Stress is causing my skin to be awful. Thankfully I started a 14 day cleanse/detox (read, clean eating) almost 2 weeks ago, and have lost some weight, and feeling good that way, but I have a bad relationship with food - it's there, and I eat it...and in times of stress, it's increasingly difficult to keep myself away from the kitchen!

One day at a time.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2553247 04/01/15 05:53 PM
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Well done on ceasing your EA, that is big important information to know. Whilst there are a few WAW there are very few here in your position, who have discovered an A is not effective and even fewer who have ceased for themselves. Bonnet off to you Dani.


Your dissatisfaction with your M is over a long time, and some of that will have your name on it.

Please can you read Sandi guidelines, I confess to having mine laminated!

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD

It may well be that R talk is unhelpful to you. I doubt if you will get much sense from H and he sounds very down indeed. has H had IC? Is he on anti depressants? is your H working, eating and taking any activity?

Dani you mention eating issues for yourself, are you having IC?

What are you expecting from the convo? What if you only get more of the same?

Are you relying on H for all your needs or most of them?

I think that Dani has some internal work to do first of all and it might be good to take the pressure off H. The words that most of us dread are "we need to talk" especially if we are unsure what to say.

Let H work his stuff and Dani hers. Save complex R talk for later. My advice would be to give yourselves a long rest from R talk. Detatch.

Give yourself some time, remember DB is for Dani and my lovely one you have just begun to Tango.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/01/15 05:57 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2553256 04/01/15 06:11 PM
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In other words is tomorrow's IC your first time?


If so I would definitely back burner your convo.


Just wanted to clarify.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/01/15 06:12 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2553368 04/01/15 11:48 PM
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Hey, Danigirl, I'm sorry for your troubles. I wish I could give you advice but I think Sandi and Vanilla are who you need. Just wanted to give you support and hugs. smile


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Maybell #2553389 04/02/15 01:55 AM
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Danigirl - I wanted to tell you that you are in the right place. Among other things, you can see here the point of view from the other side. The behaviors that you describe from your husband, while unique to him, also reflect what several regretful H came here to confess after their W left. And they shaped up. Have a look at Minman2 who was playing video games and not doing anything around the house. Now he's the best housekeeper in town.

As for me, I identify with the failure of your H to understand the depth of the crisis. I was blind and deaf to my WW's clear signals until she said the word "separation", but by then it was too late. Other LBH have had other triggers, such as discovering an affair or their W moving out. It sounds like your H hasn't reached that point yet.

Ask questions to LBH like me and so many others. We will hear you loud and clear.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Danigirl #2553584 04/02/15 05:43 PM
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It sounds as if you made a decision based on what was best for your family, and not your own personal needs at the time you ended the A. I did the same, in my stitch. I will tell anyone that it is not an easy task. When the feelings for your H are shot and there is an OM filling your EN, it takes about all the strength you can draw to end what "may have been". I felt so hopeless in my stitch, and I saw OM as my possible ticket to escape from my painful reality. Of course, I know now it would have been a disastrous mistake, but at that time I was deep into the fantasy.

You said your H wanted to stay after discovering the A. Did that discovery seem to wake him up at all? Other than giving you space for a while, did you ever see any effort coming from him?

My H never wanted to talk about our MR, and whenever he heard me say, "We need to talk", you could see the dread in his face. But I kept trying, kept trying to get him to talk about it, and continued using the same method expecting changes.....so I guess I was insane.

How are you dealing with resentment? I can see where you have been given plenty of reasons to have resentful feelings. As women, we usually look to the man as the stronger person, the leader of our family, the provider and protector. When things are out of order, we might be able to handle it for a while, without too much affecting our feelings. However, when the entire weight of responsibility for the welfare of our family falls squarely on our shoulders....it gets emotionally very heavy. IMHO, we can put on a brave face, (and some of us may actually do a better job at managing than the man), but our inner nature wants to be able to depend upon him as our a stabilizing foundation for us and our children.

I am older than you and in a different stage of my life now. My H's health is bad and he had to retire (without benefits, I might add), so the financial responsibility fell completely on me. Most everything done around the house falls on me also, b/c of his health problems. But here's the thing, Dani. It doesn't bother me now, b/c aging and declining health is eventually a natural process in life. It doesn't affect my respect for him. However, if he was younger/healthy, you better believe I would be singing a different tune! In fact, if you get very far in my story, you'll see the similarities in H's and our stories. So, I'm thinking it hasn't been easy for you to have the respect for your H that you wanted to have. Am I right?

FWIW, I wouldn't worry about having a R talk with your H at the present time. And frankly, seeking a commitment of action from him is probably useless at the moment, due to his frame of mind. If your A did not have enough force to jolt him into making changes, or at least some improvement, I think he will just resign himself to live in a one room apartment for the rest of his life. B/c right now, he must be much like you've described his son. I am concerned that you may have a father/son "set", unless someone or some thing can intervene to help.

When pressure is applied to your H, how does he deal with it? Shuts down, crawls into his cave, says the right words but no action, or what?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to get a better picture of him. How do the grown children deal with his depression & apathy? Do they see what you see, or do they make excuses for him?

I think you are smart to be concerned about his statement of wanting to die. As bad as you would hate to go to that extreme, it may get to point that requires getting assistance in protection against himself.

I am not in the medical field and do not pretend to know about your H's mental issues, so please don't misunderstand my desire to help in some small way. I do hope you will not agree with him that the grown boys will live with you, and let him know that his son will not be your responsibility for the rest of your life. Although you may love your SS, his father should not think he gets to slide out and leave the work/responsibility on your shoulders. That's JMHO, and I don't know the time or manner in which to get that message across to him, but it doesn't seem right for you to take on the stress of giving a home to his grown sons. Would his son qualify for an assisted living type of program?

I think your level of frustration might kill some people if they had to walk in your shoes. ((Dani)) If nothing else, you can use this place to let off emotional steam. There are people from many walks of life here, and maybe someone will be able to suggest something doable in your stitch with the SS.

As for your feelings toward your H and your confusion about what to do, I am here for you. I understand those feelings very well. I think maybe guilt plays a part in your decision to end the A and stay with your H. It may still be working overtime with your mind.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Vanilla #2554124 04/04/15 07:08 AM
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Hello, apologies for my absence the last few days. It's definitely been emotional. Here is an update: H is not on any meds, nor has been. His fear of doctor/dentist makes it so he won't go. He has turned down marriage counselling - too hard to talk personal stuff with a stranger.

My appointment was eyeopening. Lots of tears, and the realization that I feel responsible for everyone's happiness. How things with H have gone on for so long, that I feel alone, and neglected. That I'm constantly making sure everyone else is ok, yet no one is making sure I am. She said that she'd like to work with me on getting down to my real emotions - that everytime I started to go down there, I'd switch it up and go in another direction.

I admitted that I have a fear of having to make a decision. Fear that I will tear the family apart. Fear he will be a her mit and neglect the kids. Realizing how alone and abandoned I've felt for so many years was hard.

Tonight was awkward. We just watched a movie. Sat, with the tv on, playing on our phones, not talking. He knows how serious I am this time, and doesn't know how to handle it (just my opinion)

I have so much to work through in my mind. I'm a talker, like to talk it out, but haven't really had that outlet. My parents return tomorrow from 2 months away. I want to talk with my mom, but don't want to burden her either, so I may wait.

Tomorrow I'm forcing myself to go to yoga - I've not gone in 3 weeks, and normally love it. I need to get back in the game of life.

I have read Sandi's rules. I will read them again after posting.

So thankful for this place of support!


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2554128 04/04/15 07:20 AM
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Sandi, I think I missed your post! Here are some answers...

H's discovery of the A made him wake up temporarily. I don't think he ever was able to fully see why I was unhappy. He has only ever made effort for a week or so, and then back to normal (and these conversations about my being unhappy have been happening for years)

Resentment has been a huge part of my life. I'm not as resentful now, as I have a better understanding of how his mind works (or doesn't). I have in the past been very resentful. I just wanted for once to be taken care of. You are right, the role reversal for such a long time has been hard. I was raised to be strong and independent, however that doesn't mean I don't need some TLC at times. I've had so many aspirations and if he had stepped up to the plate even once, things may be different.

Thanks for the advise on talking to H. You are correct, he does tend to shut down when i want to talk. Definitely a cave dweller!

The kids don't really see what I see. He's been a fairly decent father. He has fun with the kids and they love him (oh, just remembering another bone of contention, I used to have to bug him to go to our daughter's soccer games, and last year I finally made him take her to half the practices) He talks alot about what he 'dreams' to do. So the kids, I believe, think of him as this active person, when really, they have yet to realize that he never actually does these things.

Sandi, I'm going to read more of your story. Your message showed me just how much you have experienced that is similar.

I'm going to work hard this week to beef my life back up to how it was. Seeing friends, exercising, doing fun things. I've been letting this affect me too much (albeit understandable).


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2554149 04/04/15 10:19 AM
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Danigirl. Glad you're making the decision to exhaust what you can do for yourself before making any bigger changes.

For me, my biggest two issues were that I was depressed, and that I didn't sit well with my feelings and would avoid them.

I found out that while my depression was "real", it was magnified in that I used it to manipulate my STBX. Basically when she behaved lovingly towards me it made me feel better, so therefor I concluded that it was her job to make me happy, and when she didn't do enough to compensate for my bad feelings I blamed her for my unhappiness. Then I would be unpleasant as a sign to her she needed to get it right.

I also found out who really was neglecting me: ME. My psychologist said I have a fear of abandonment, but my parents were really there for me. It wasn't until I realized that I abandoned myself that it made sense. Somewhere around age 10-12 it's like I made the decision that feelings were stupid and I didn't need them. Anytime I felt anything I just stuffed it and went into hyperdrive mode, charging around, making things happen, crushing goals, setting records, whatever. Emotions were just too much to deal with.

As I've been disconnected with my STBX there is no reason to enhance my pain because there is no one to control. No one cares if I suffer but me. And I am learning to be there for myself, to feel my emotions, and to manage through them. Behind this all was a lot of FEAR. Until I was to this point I was terrified of when the next dark wave would crash. My IC says that we don't fear bad things happening, we fear that we'll be unable to handle the emotions that come. As I learn more about how to handle negative emotions I am less fearful, and have begun to manage my life again.

Not saying this is you in any way, just wanted to share some things I've gone through. If anything, my hope is that in your own way you can make enough changes on your end that you can change the universe you're living in without having to change the life you're living first.

Thanks for sticking around and talking it through!


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2554213 04/04/15 05:46 PM
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Thanks Zeus for being so forthright.

I'm not sure how to handle things at home right now. I'm dying to get out, go somewhere. Then he asked me if I wanted to go out, when I said where, he just said 'out'' to enjoy the nice weather. My comment back was that I had asked my sister to go for a walk, but hadn't heard back yet. I know he wants us to keep talking, however I just don't think we should be talking to each other about things right now. I don't like saying things that hurt him, and I don't want him trying to make me see all the 'good' things. I don't want to give him hope, when I'm not yet sure if there is any.

I'm tired of being the one to get up and go out. I wish he would. Go do something with his son, take the dog out. It's always me leaving. Maybe that's a sign.

Yes, Zues, he does neglect himself. He knows it, yet still can't seem to do anything about it.

I was trying to ask him about trying some alternative therapy, when he questioned it, I finally sat back and said, I have to remember that I can't help you, YOU have to help you. Pretty sure he didn't like that.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2554256 04/04/15 09:01 PM
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As wives and mothers, it is not that difficult for us to take on the responsibility for the entire family's happiness. We want everyone to be happy, even if that requires sacrificing our own happiness, our own mental & physical well being, and our dreams. When we have a H who won't take care of himself, we often take on the responsibility. We actually do the same things for him that we do for our kids. The end result is we mother the man, and that is not a good thing.

I have gotten so frustrated waiting on my H do........anything. Just show me some life! I even have to wait for him to get a sentence out of his mouth. He says, "ah" to signal he is eventually going form a simple sentence. Then he clears his throat, and thinks a little longer, and then slowly gets it out. I mean, I could have gone to get groceries by the time he gets it said! grin I have to find humor wherever I can. My H and I are very different, and I hope I've learned that getting angry does not change him over to my ways.

As a parent of a rebellious and wayward young adult, I had to learn to step back and allow the consequences to hit. Sure, I wanted to protect her and give thought my advice should influence her, but she would not listen. The most painful part of parenthood, for me, was to let go of trying to control/protect/sheild. I had to allow her to attend the school of hard knocks. I stopped being responsible for her actions, and the results of her actions. I stopped giving my opunless, unless they asked.....but funny thing, she never asked.

A few years ago, my H was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I told him I could help with things like preparing diabetic meals, if he would stay on the diet, of he would make the effort to do his part. (Not dieting is why it was not controlled and advanced). Problay was not the right approach, but I had about had it with his lack of responsibility. I told him je had to ultimately be responsible for his own disease. Well, he would not take responsibility, so it advanced to insulin dependency. Well, I have never given him one shot. ( I am experienced in giving diabetic shots, so I would if needed). I told him he had to learn how to give his own shots and be responsible for his disease. Sounds pretty cold hearted, doesn't it? There are times, and there are some people, where tough love is the only thing that gets them moving in the right direction.

Here's the thing, I knew if I ever started administering his insulin, he would depend on me to the point I would be completely responsible for his health. I refused. I would not even call for his prescriptions. I had gone through all of those nightmarish years with our D's health, plus I had my own health issues to keep my plate full. So, I told him in no uncertain terms that I would not be his mother. He is an adult and and capable of taking care of himself. Basically, it was like pushing a birdie from his nest. And, yeah.......it was tough. However, he leaned, and He is still alive,.......and giving his own shots. He makes decisions what to eat and when he eats a candybar, I don't say a word, b/c he knows he shouldn't eat it. Keeping my mouth shut is one of the hardest thing I've ever nad to do.

Sorry, didn't mean to make this so long. I just wanted to tell you, so you would know that I recognize some the feelings, and I know how hard it is to resign from the job of taking care of everyone, and for their happiness.

I see something in things you say, and if you did not have the ages of the children listed, I would assume they were all minors. However, I see you only have one under the age of 18. So do all of them still live with you, except for one? For some mothers, that would be heaven, b/c their entire life is based on being a mother. Honestly, my H and I enjoyed the time we had after the kids were grown and left home.

I think your own happines was put on hold too long. You feeling responsible.....and guilt, played a major part of you ending what may have been your only shot at a happy life. When you, once agained, sacrificed your personal needs, the resentment kicked up into even a higher level. B/c now you see that your H is not going to step up to the plate and do what a man is sippose to do! It's unfair for your H to just bow out and leave everything in your hands. I mean, you had the perfect opportunity to that to him, but you put family over yoirself. Although this behavior of his is nothing new, you don't know what to do to cause him to change. You continue to do the only thing you know how. You try to change him by telling him what he needs to do.

I could replace my name for every time I said "you" in the above paragraph, and you would see me in my own stitch several years ago. I may not be able to tell you one thing that will succeed in developing the MR you want, but I may be able to tell you a few things not to do. The first thing I can tell you that will not work is using "talk" to fix what's broken. Action is the key. It is the only thing that stands a chance of getting a response or change in your H.

I believe you need to convey your concerns to the adult children, about his depression and what he has said about not wanting to live. You are trying to shield or protect them. Those 18 and over should know the truth. Let them know what is going on and how serious this has become. Do not worry about what they could think about you or their dad. That part is out of your control. Your responsibility is telling the family and allowing them to help.

I always believed my H would listen to anyone (especially family) before listening to me. Our adult children can have influence.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2554261 04/04/15 09:31 PM
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Dani

Somewhere along the line Dani lost the sense of herself.

She has described that she subsumed herself in every other member of the household. The way I see it is that imagine Dani is the vegetable garden, which provides the fresh and beautiful food that is needed for the family meals. Unless that garden is watered, fertilised, weeded and the vegetables tended then the crop gradually reduced. The potatoes seed, the cabbages are eaten by pest, the peas get chocked. The owner needs to tend.

Or think of a photocopier without paper or ink it won't print, eventually it needs a service. The car needs oiil, petrol, tyres but then needs a mechanic.

Dani was looking for the gardener, the service engineer or the mechanic. She was asking H to provide that function, when he did not she looked for an alternate.

Dani we need to be our own Gardner, service engineer or mechanic. The wrong fertiliser, spare part or replacement engine part will cause malfunction.

This is resolvable, there is repair, there is help, there is only asking, this is a 180, allowing yourself to be recipient of help rather than the giver of it. To manage the team to repair. Move forwards with hope because there is hope and joy.

I can see that you have much love to give and that you have given so much. Love is a channel a multiway process and today it can flow both ways.

Be brave Dani, ask for the support that will relieve your personal burden.

Sandi has a great deal of beautiful straightforward advice for you to apply and I recommend that the guidance is applied.

Strength today

V


Last edited by Vanilla; 04/04/15 09:37 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2554731 04/06/15 09:02 PM
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How are you doing, Dani?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2554794 04/07/15 01:00 AM
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Dani, I'm glad you're getting great input here. I hope it's been helpful. I haven't checked in in a few days but I wanted to say hi and that you still have my sympathy and support. Please let us know how you're doing, no matter what, ok?


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
sandi2 #2554821 04/07/15 03:03 AM
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Hi Sandi and Vanilla, it was a busy Easter weekend here, and I am so thankful to have my parents back in town!

Sandi, it's crazy how many similarities our H's have. Even the part about when you try to converse, and he takes 5 minutes to respond (doesn't drive me as crazy as it used to).

I'm doing ok. We had dinner at my sister's last night with my parents. I had a couple drinks and it went pretty well. My family is pretty awesome. I did tell my parents I wanted to come over this morning to talk.

This morning I got ready, and then phoned over, and as soon as I had my dad on the phone, I could feel the emotions all bubbling to the surface. Took all I had to hold back the tears on the short drive over.

As per my usual, as soon as I had mom in front of me, I broke.

They were surprised, but not. My mom knows how I've felt over the years. Of course they are on my side, and reiterated how I had done so much, taken on so much on my own, raising 2 extra boys, one with a disability. How I've struggled for years with the unhappiness, but kept going back saying 'he loves me, he doesn't abuse me, I can be content here'.

My mom did say she had mentioned to my dad that H didn't look happy last night.

I said that I feel that as torn as I am, it's really just a matter of time. Since I had that initial talk with him, and then the second over a week ago now, he hasn't made one move towards improving anything.

I feel like I want to yell at him, tell him 'why aren't you fighting for this, why aren't you doing a, b & c so that I won't have to leave!' But I know, I can't do this for him. I need him to show me his commitment to improving things.

As for the kids living with me, the 2 boys 24, 20 and the one daughter, 14, are with us (all his bio kids) My older daughter lives with her dad (but we have a good relationship) and my other son lives on his own.

I spoke to the eldest and advised that 'we' were going through a hard time, so if we seemed off, that was why. He responded with 'you seemed happy last night'. Boy, am I good at hiding things. Or, the kids are so entrenched in themselves they don't notice. I think the latter is the case.

I know how he is hurting and want so much to hug him. But I don't, for fear he will cling to that. I don't want to feel guilty for feeling how I do. And I know he can't help how he is, mentally. I just wish he would finally push himself beyond his comfort zone to get help.

Things are changing for me this week - I'm doing a 4 month secondment in another position. It's more pay, but also shift work, so I won't see him as much.

I've also 'forced' him to go on a camping trip. His brother invited us to some property they have. I told the eldest, and said he should book the time off...I knew he would love to go.

When we mentioned it to H, he said "I didn't say I was going" to which I asked why, and so did S. H finally said maybe he would go and just take S24 cause he'd never done anything with him before. So they finalized it yesterday, and they are going.

If I hadn't gone behind his back and told S about it and to book off time, H wouldn't have gone because I can't go (I'm working).

I wonder though, how long do I wait for him to make an effort? To move out of the comfort zone and make the commitment? This 'limbo' is so difficult. Not knowing what to say to him when we are at home.

I will try to get back to my exercising, and enjoy learning at my new position. I will focus on my daughters and making time for them (the boys don't really want that time much anymore).

Thank you so much for sharing your stories!

I spent time last night reading yours, Sandi (the other night was more of Vanilla).

Maybe you could save me some time and tell me what made you finally make that decision to stay?

Thanks for checking in, and even if I'm not posting, I'm reading. (Sometimes hard at home to get computer/typing time)

I feel blessed to have met you!

Dani


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2554829 04/07/15 03:44 AM
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Dani,

From a H that was left, I am really just curious about a few things. I'm not attacking or judging at all. The word curious is very accurate.

If you decide to leave your M...what do you expect in your future? Do you feel you'd be better off alone than with this person, and that being alone would be better than dealing with an H that is so disappointing? Or do you expect to meet a guy that is better somehow, where these problems don't come up, and it is so amazing that it makes up for the history and the family together and lasts the rest of your lives?

It sounds like I'm trying to make a point, I'm not. I'm wording it that strongly because I know you have thought these very compelling thoughts before, so there must be even more compelling thoughts on the side of exiting for you to be leaning that way. Can you elaborate on what those are so we can really get it? What do you tell yourself to combat the "pro-marriage" thoughts that linger like those above?

Your journey and I hope you get through whatever the future holds, but I think I'd gain from your feedback so if you feel up to sharing I would appreciate it. Thanks Dani, and stay strong.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2554910 04/07/15 12:55 PM
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Hi Zues, I only have time for a quick response. I've carefully considered your question, and honestly, the thought of meeting someone else to be with is far far back in my mind. The stress of the life I lead is catching up with me.

I'm a very easy going person, not too much gets to me. I'm well liked in both my personal and professional life. I love people, love helping others...but when the 'other' has no ability to help themselves, and in the process are draining you of your vitality and enjoyment of life, it's hard to see a future there.

Time for work, have a great day.

Dani


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2555109 04/07/15 08:51 PM
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Maybell, just saw your post now! Thank you so much for checking in. It's amazing how good it feels to have people caring about what's going on with me! Last week was feeling very alone - all I wanted was a hug, and had the garbage man been available I would have forced a hug on him.

My parents returned yesterday and I'm so thankful.

I had 5 days off from work, and it was awkward being home with H. I didn't have plans, and was letting myself be 'down'. We had family plans on Sunday, which was great, and H had work yesterday, so my D and I went to a friends (her daughter is same age as D) and had a nice visit.

Tonight I'm going to take the dog for a walk or do the park after dinner. I just can't sit in in the evening with H and S sitting around.

Still up and down with my confusion. As I mentioned above, I wish I could shake him, but doing a lot of reading on DB is reinforcing that I can't help him, HE has to help him. I've made suggestions, offered support, etc for YEARS and still he hasn't made one move to improve his mental health.

Thankful it's spring, and the sun is shining outside - that always makes me smile :-)


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2555169 04/07/15 11:50 PM
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Dani

Change takes a long time to take place. More than a few days, more than a few months, most of our unhappiness is within us and leaving an R or M really will not resolve that. If you are to stand for your M then the resolution is for you as a life long journey.

Each of us resolves our unhappiness within ourselves and at our own pace. Your H will move at a difference pace and frame to you. Remember in many ways you have a head start on your H, you have been aware for the longest time.

H will not do a b or c just because you want him to or think it's best, he will do x, y and d because that is what he wants. That is how it must be, your H has to become who he wishes to be in his own time. Nothing you can do will change that.

Frankly that's not your job, your job is you, to build you, to become the best and strongest Dani that you can be. H will change as he wishes to in response. There are many changes that I would like to see in my H but so far no indication that my H wanted or saw the need for change. only by changing myself have I changed my sitch, not through any change of H.

This will take a long time, it is not instant or a quick fix. From my experience if you are being drained by another as you say you have been by your H (as I was by my H) then it is because we are affected by them and not for ourselves.

This was a very hard lesson for me to learn and the first goal I made was to detach, to let my H fall, follow his own path, not to enable H as that causes his behaviour to continue. It lets the interaction I dislike continue for longer, ironically what I did made my sitch worse not better. In the end detaching made my life easier, me less reactive, and ultimately allowed the next step of GAL. It freed me from H draining demands.

Let's start with plans and goals, if not having them is a downer that would look to me to be a great place to start. There are some good discussions about goals on Errods current thread, you can read how that has made an enormous difference to him. It is quite astounding, you could also look at Joe and his journey into detachment. These are LBS who learned to detach.

So what are your goals? How are you going to get there?

You can choose to stick with what you can do, how you will know and measure it. There are threads here on goal setting. Dani like the rest of us DBers you will find lots of work to do on you. Let H do his journey and observe.

Blessings and great sleep

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Danigirl #2555174 04/08/15 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Maybe you could save me some time and tell me what made you finally make that decision to stay?


I had started to see a few little things in OM, but turned a blind eye b/c I wanted to believe in the fantasy. By the time I found my way to the DB board, I was ready for some type of guidance. In reading my story you may have noticed at the first how I continued to ask people to talk to me straight. I knew I was a big, hot mess. However, I was very confused and couldn't seem to make up my mind.

I had some great people posting to me, but there were two ladies who helped me the most. It was as if they were helping me find my own moral compass again. Someone once told me that I was a "Thou shalt" and "Thou shalt not" person. I suppose that is what it boiled down to for me. I made a decision based on what I believed was the right thing to do. I could not base it on my feelings, b/c they were fickle. I couldn't base my decision on my H, b/c he has been the same all these years....and he's not going to change into the man I wanted him to be.

I had found a book on line (you probably read that part in my thread), and it made a such an impact on me. It may not affect anyone else the way it did me, but a lot had to do with the timing in my stitch. My adult D had discovered the communication between OM and myself. My H had also found out about OM, and things had pretty much hit the fan. Then I was given information from wise DB board members, and then I read that book, which was kind of the icing on the cake in helping me make a final decision. However, the way it all came about for me doesn't mean it would be the same for another person.

Dani, I am going to say something that will probably hit hard, but I think it's necessary. If anyone can sympathize and understand how badly you want to see your H make some effort......I do. However, I believe you cannot make your decision on hopes he will change and become the man you want him to be.

It sounds like he definitely has issues that should be addressed, but I don't think you can talk him into anything. For sure, you can't talk him into changing for the better. It sounds as if he needs medication and therapy, but you still cannot base your decision on his efforts......or lack of efforts.

Before I even made a decision to stay in the M, do you know what my H had the nerve to tell me? He wanted to see me putting 100% effort into our M. Me!! I was the only one who ever put an ounce of effort in making our MR better. I never saw him do anything! But, that was my opinion. I'm sure he saw it quite differently.

At the time, and for a long time after I ended my A, it took all my energy just to be willing to be willing. Know what I mean? I was too low to even be encouraged. I had such a negative attitude about him, until I was in constant misery. The only thing I asked of him was to go with me to MC, and he refused. I knew then, he would do no more than he ever had......b/c that is the type of person he is, and I can't do anything about it.

You and I can read threads from the LBH'S on the board, and see now hard they work to improve themselves and their lives........and trying so hard to get their WAW back. It is hard to accept the fact our H's will not do that for us.....or for themselves. Of course, your H is a lot younger than mine, but even if mine were twenty years younger......I think he would be the same as now.

So, the way I see it, you have to make your decision based on what you are willing to accept, and how much you are willing to do. You can always hope for better, but can you accept him the way he is right now......if you knew he would never get any better? Could you make yourself happy in this M, if he never changed? And what if he gets worse? Are you willing to bear the burden of his son and take responsibility for managing the home, family, and M, while he is content to let you carry his part?

If your A did not shake him up enough to try harder, what on earth would it take?
I do sincerely believe if he were to get the right kind of help, he would have a better mindset. Unfortunately, men feel like we are nagging whenever we say the same thing twice, so it may take an outsider to influence him to go to the doctor.

At the moment, his mental health needs to be high priority. Are you affiliated with a church or synagogue? Would he listen to a spiritual advisor? Does he have a relative who has influence with him? It doesn't sound as if the adult children took what you said seriously enough. IMHO, somebody needs to be alerted to the severity of his depression. Out type guys make it challenging as it is, but mix long term depression in the batch.....and it's enough to cause you to want to give up.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2555319 04/08/15 02:56 PM
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You ladies have sure made some comments that are making me think. What is my ultimate goal? When I came here, it was to take one last effort to see if my marriage could be saved.

I do realize I can’t change him. Lord knows I’ve tried – not to change him myself, but to encourage him to make changes for his own benefit (and ultimately the benefit of ‘us’ and our family).

Forgive me if it seems like I’m rambling or repeating, I’m trying to go over things in my head.

Vanilla spoke about making myself the best I can be. Over the years I have done various rounds of counselling, I lost weight, started exercising regularly. I went out with friends for coffee, dancing, dinner, movies. I went to school to become a Hypnotherapist. 10 years ago I attended Hypnotherapy myself, and after a few sessions, I was calmer, more relaxed and easy going, and approached life that way. During this time I encouraged him. I encouraged his guitar playing and song writing and recording. I encouraged his writing a book. I encouraged the websites he was creating and the amazing ideas behind it. He completed none of them (except the websites that were for someone else).

He has encouraged me in the changes I’ve made, and said he was proud of me, and wanted to do those things for himself. Again, he didn’t really make many changes, and always slipped back to his ‘normal’ self.

I feel I am doing my best to be my best self. Last night I went out and dug up my dandelion garden. I’m making plans to hire someone to pull out a bush and lay weed prevention fabric down so I can put river rock in the garden. H has said over and over he wants to do it, why waste the money, etc. However *I* finally want it done, so I just won’t discuss it with him. He’ll be upset – probably at himself for leaving it so long that I went and hired someone. I want to paint the front porch, and the fence. Tired of waiting for him, so I will go and select the paint, and get started on my own. I’m sure he will be upset, and then either a) join in or b) retreat to the house and be depressed and upset (because he was going to do it).

So as much as I can make myself the best I can be, I should detach – however I’m not sure how to do that, and still function as a family. We’ve made plans for camping with my sisters family on the August long weekend (his response was, ‘how will we get there, we don’t have a vehicle that can carry all the stuff, we need to buy more things, etc etc’) and also with friends at the end of August (his response was ‘they have younger kids who are annoying, don’t want to have to deal with them’ plus same excuses as above) How do I move ahead with these plans?

Yes, I am affected by H’s behavior and responses to things. I do continue living, however in a home where everyone hangs out in the kitchen/family room area most of the time, he’s right there.

Yes, I can GAL more, however that also means leaving behind my 14yo daughter at home, and I like being with the boys (adults) and her. Being 14, she doesn’t really want to go out with mom for walks, drives, shopping etc (she uses her big sister for those things). So to detach, means detaching from the family, which is harder to swallow.

Sandi commented:
So, the way I see it, you have to make your decision based on what you are willing to accept, and how much you are willing to do. You can always hope for better, but can you accept him the way he is right now......if you knew he would never get any better? Could you make yourself happy in this M, if he never changed? And what if he gets worse? Are you willing to bear the burden of his son and take responsibility for managing the home, family, and M, while he is content to let you carry his part?

Can I accept him the way he is. I guess my answer is No. There are certain things I understand and accept. However, not seeing a dentist (and ultimately never kissing or being intimate again in my life), as well as not protecting me and the family with life insurance, how does one just accept that?

If something were to happen to him, I would lose the house. I can’t afford the mtg payments on my salary, and nor can I afford to rent a place that will house myself and 2 other adults and a teen. Dealing with a death would be hard enough without the rest of it all.

I can be happy, however I am deeply affected by people’s energy, especially his. I can tell when he’s off, even though he’s a great actor and others wouldn’t see the difference. I ‘feel’ it, it penetrates me.

Since our second talk, he hasn’t continued with his tidying up when he gets home, or being happy or energetic. However, he is playing a phone game (draw something) that the kids all started playing again (it’s pretty funny to see).

Detaching will NOT change him. I know him too well, better than he’d care to admit. Detaching will make him withdraw, possibly become worse in depression. This will affect how he is with the kids, and I don’t want to affect that.

Most of the time I can continue on with life, however I’m not sure how to live in the same house with him, and detach, and feel I could live a happier life alone with my daughter (again, other D lives with her Dad, S lives on his own) and he lives with the 2 S’s.

To be honest, he seems more detached. We are civil and friendly, however not really talking much. (who knows, maybe he discovered DB and is doing that! But I’d hate that he would recognize my screen name, should have rethought that one).


I have my next counselling apt next week – where she wants to delve into my emotions of hurt, betrayal, etc that have built up over the years, should be fun (NOT).

Question – would DB or DR be most appropriate for me to read based on my situation?

Once again, I thank you for your kindness, and for your valuable time in helping me during this trying time. This is such a loving, caring place and am so happy I found it all those years ago.

Dani

PS Regarding his mental health. NO ONE knows about most of his issues except my family, who I disclose to. He would be horrified knowing that I've told them all. Nor are we religiously affiliated. He will talk to no one, except me. I can't even imagine it, as much as I wish he would talk to his brothers that way, his family has a history of talking around things, and never talking about them.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2555375 04/08/15 05:25 PM
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Hey, lady, I just want to say I'm so impressed with your character and the lengths you're going to in tackling your situation. I wish I could hug you.

DB and DR are quite similar, DR is the newer edition and includes a chapter on the depressed spouse.

BEST to you.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Danigirl #2555388 04/08/15 06:19 PM
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Hi Dani,

Your thread resonates with me because I was the one who had an EA and who almost walked out and didn't, only to have my H walk out on me 5 months later. That being said, I wish I had found this place when it might have made a difference.

As a general rule, I'm in favor of doing everything that is humanly possible to save a marriage. BUT not at the expense of either party losing their soul for the long term. I realize that it opens up a barrel of monkeys that are confusing and go against what we are taught to do.

I'm certainly not going to steer you in the direction of abandoning ship, because you really haven't done much on your own to turn things around. Or at the very least, what you have done hasn't worked so far, and you're miserable. Until I saw that you are in Canada, I almost thought you were one of my BFF's back home. She has many things in common with you in regards to your spouses, and that's a tough thing.

I would definitely advise you to read DR. It's got a more concrete structure to make a plan. And you should make a plan. What I would advise is for you to journal. Experiment and jot down results. Your EA didn't wake him up, and nagging isn't working either. (It didn't work for me either.)

Don't be surprised if the EA being in the open becomes a catalyst for him to shut down further and to erect walls of indifference. This is the exact point in my marital demise where I wish I had THIS tool - the book and this forum. I might have been able to perform CPR on our marriage instead of taking my proverbial hammer and beating him to death with it. I was righteous in my anger at his shutting down, and I let him know it. I think he just saw a big black pit of despair, and probably felt there was nothing he could do to change things. It was an awful and dark period in my life, and I made choices that would set up a cataclysmic set of events to follow. The good news is that you don't have to do that.

Like you, I had horrible post-partum depression. Reading the other folks here makes me wonder if this isn't some sort of trigger? I haven't suffered from depression my whole life, but I suffer from anxiety issues that escalate or de-escalate based on triggers and stressors. So I understand.

That understanding also leads me to want to say that you really need to heal yourself first before you expect changes in your M. I see lots of similarities between us, as well as these other strong willed women posters. grin The problem isn't what you want, but I daresay that it's how you go about getting what you want. First recent example:

Quote:
H has said over and over he wants to do it, why waste the money, etc. However *I* finally want it done, so I just won’t discuss it with him. He’ll be upset – probably at himself for leaving it so long that I went and hired someone.


Well... from where I sit, and after having read your posts up until now, is it safe to assume that your H has fears that center on finances? Don't think about this too much - just answer it yes or no. Taking the reins to get what you want probably isn't going to make him feel respected by you. I DO understand that you haven't been able to get him off his ass and do what he says he wants to do. I'd venture to say that it's a passive aggressive maneuver on his part to get his way.

I'm not going to go into why he might be the way he is like I would be for Maybell... because it's you who wants out. Therefore, I'd rather ask you to do some exercises in respectful communications, instilling mutual respect between the two of you, and figuring out where your baggage is tripping you up. There are typically reasons why people engage in passive aggressive tactics. The one thing that makes them moreso is to come out on the offensive.

Tell me more about resentment and respect (or lack thereof) between you.

Which brings me to this:

Quote:
Can I accept him the way he is. I guess my answer is No. There are certain things I understand and accept. However, not seeing a dentist (and ultimately never kissing or being intimate again in my life), as well as not protecting me and the family with life insurance, how does one just accept that?


I have to agree with you, Dani. (My abovementioned BFF also has the oral hygiene issue with her H, and it's been tragic to watch her try to get what she wants. His teeth are rotting, his breath is foul, and they haven't kissed in 20 years beyond a peck.) Did his oral hygiene habits do a 180 after you got married? And the insurance issue kind of hits me from another angle. My former boss was also one who didn't believe in it. Why? Because his dad said it was a waste of money. It was baggage he carried forth from his childhood. Perhaps your H hasn't examined if his belief system needs an overhaul. Perhaps if he isn't willing to make changes so that you can be happy TOGETHER, you might have to abandon ship. Down the road. I'd personally like to see you put 110% of your effort into healing your own wounds. I can see a few of them from here, but I'd love your thoughts on why you are afraid to let go of the reins of control.

One final comment because it goes back to my thought of a wall going up and him shutting down:

Quote:
To be honest, he seems more detached. We are civil and friendly, however not really talking much. (who knows, maybe he discovered DB and is doing that!


This is a hallmark of shutting down in a P-A personality type. They can't handle conflict, Dani. They know it exists, but don't possess the skill set to sort through it and resolve it. So they shut down. Completely. I will certainly try to help you with some basic skills to open that door, but it again hinges on your efforts to get back your own spiritual health and to work on some of your own fears that are creating conflict as well.

Make sense?

Betsey


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

Albert Einstein
Danigirl #2555423 04/08/15 07:31 PM
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Thanks for being candid. I am going to ask a very personal question, but certainly not uncommon here on the board. His dentistry needs, is that preventing intimacy now? If so, how long has it been?

Quote:
Can I accept him the way he is. I guess my answer is No. There are certain things I understand and accept. However, not seeing a dentist (and ultimately never kissing or being intimate again in my life), as well as not protecting me and the family with life insurance, how does one just accept that?


So, you are not getting several needs met. Lack of intimacy and security. As things stand, you probably feel no attraction for him, and the respect is shot. Those two areas are so important in a M.

Just curious, b/c I have zero knowledge about hypnotherapy, but would that help him in overcoming his fear about seeing a doctor, etc.? I suppose he would have to cooperate, in order for it to be effective. smirk Ugh!

Quote:
Again, he didn’t really make many changes, and always slipped back to his ‘normal’ self.


His track record is all you have to measure any future outcome, right? I know how discouraging that is.

Let's talk about detaching. When most newcomers first arrive and get the advice to detach, they think of physically detaching. Sometimes it may be necessary to physically pull away, but it is mainly a mental detachment from the other spouse. Detaching is to protect yourself from the affect he is having on you at this time. It is an attitude more than anything else. It's a way of thinking. You do not have to pull back from your family. If he's among the others in the room, you don't have to leave simply b/c he's there. I am going to copy & paste a post from a former member that give a very detailed description. I think it will better explain to you what detaching is all about.

Quote:
Question – would DB or DR be most appropriate for me to read based on my situation?


From what I've read, the majority usually go with DR.

So, stay honest with yourself. Do not let anyone pressure you into doing something you don't want to do. You do not have to make any quick decisions about your M right now.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2555426 04/08/15 07:33 PM
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Here's the post on detaching, Dani.

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."
_________________________


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2555438 04/08/15 08:10 PM
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H's dentistry needs. I had noticed some small issues in the beginning, however a couple years ago, I couldn't kiss him anymore. His breath is always really bad, and you can see that his teeth shift. I even asked him a few months ago if one of his teeth broke, and he admitted it had. He obviously has periodontal disease and I fear that it will affect his overall health as well (which is well document that it can affect many other things). So although he is a nice looking man, I am really not attracted to him in an intimate way.

I've asked him many times about Hypnotherapy. He said he would try it back in October, and he did one sessions, which wasn't very successful (he is very analytical, and says he doesn't think it will work for him, I advised that with that attitude it won't) He never asked again.

When we talked a couple weeks ago, he said he obviously HAS to do hypnotherapy with me (he wouldn't trust someone else) as that is the only option available to him (in his mind), and since that discussion, he hasn't mentioned it since.

I feel he probably had some trauma in his childhood causing all these issues (parents divorced, Dad was an alcoholic, but he doesn't remember his dad being abusive or negative in any way).

He has always said he needs my help with getting better, however nothing I've done (positive and negative reinforcement) has worked.

You are correct, Sandi, I don't have to make a decision now. I do have work I can do, and I need to focus on that. I feel calmer today, not on the verge of tears, which is good. Doing the gardening last night helped me. Deciding to finish the garden on my own feels good. I don't need his acceptance or permission, and I'll feel better about it.

Part of me wants to give him time, another part feels I've given him too much time already (to make changes). Would be so much easier if I didn't care.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2555440 04/08/15 08:12 PM
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That post is terrific, I'm printing it out now to keep it on me so I can remind myself.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2555460 04/08/15 09:54 PM
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Hi Danigirl As a LBS can I just thank you for not giving up on your M without a fight. I don't know where your M will end up but you are fighting for it which a lot of us on here would ha e loved out WAS to have done. I will follow your posts with interest and again I appalud you for trying everything before you decided what's best for you.

Take care. Rd

rd500 #2555514 04/09/15 12:15 AM
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Dani

I understand your issue on the hygiene, my H smokes very heavily and if you read my sitch is a little intermittent on his personal hygiene, clothes washing bedding etc. At one stage his bed had not been washed for 6 weeks. Eventually his sister said something to him about it. (Unprompted) it improved.

Not perfect. dental hygiene is poor too. I partly solved that by suggesting teeth cleaning gum and a new sonic tooth brush. But it is not very attractive or pleasant! I have tooth problems myself and am very particular.

My H diet is very poor and he is malodorous as a result, ripe on occasion. He uses a depderant which smells like fly spray. It is no wonder his POWs are never becoming OWs.

I just leave it, it's H issue but I have told him he can not meet clients. It is gradually getting better. NLP has some great phobia cures too. There is a great ad on our TV which has a teenagers bedroom and 'nose blind' and every time it comes on I think of my H. His mum and sisters fill the bedroom with sweaty althletes so the teenager understands the issue. Humour.

It is unpleasant to be around. Sigh.......

But I think it's depression and phobia about dentist. What about pain? Dental pain is horrific, isn't H in agony? Could it be H tonsils too? His teeth will eventually all drop out and then it will be soup diet. I really don't get it either Dani! But I am not phobic.

So why did I stay/go back?

1. I am not finished yet with my own growth there are still choices to make for me
2. My vows really mean something to me
3. I already have one marriage ending in divorce
4. Some of this is my responsibility
5. I want to ensure that I have done as much as I can before I D
6. Some little things are working
7. I need to sell the big House to pay off H
8. I want to turn my business and fins 180
9. I have not scored highly on some items on Sandi guidelines
10. The abuse has stopped in its cycle. Dead stop and I am keen to ensure it stays stopped
11. I have chosen to stay loving even though it is tough


V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Danigirl #2555693 04/09/15 04:25 PM
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I suppose you have told him the effect this has on you? Sometimes we have to be painfully blunt (just look at how many men say their WAW never talked about their unhappiness). If your H knows he is not getting sex due to his teeth/mouth issues, he must really have psychological problems. I'm sure he has already physically suffered more by not going, than what he would experience in the dentist's chair.

My first childhood visit to a dentist was traumatic for me. It affected me to point I had to be out of my head with pain before I would relent to go the dentist. However, modern times has changed so much from the way it used to be. They don't have the drills hanging from the ceiling and all the needles, picks, and other tools laid out in open view. I mean, the scene alone could have scared a kid half to death. Now, if they would learn to put a silencer on those drills......


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2555738 04/09/15 07:35 PM
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H is definitely aware why I won't kiss him, he is extremely embarassed! Only have a moment, started a new position at work!

Oh, i sent H a link to a couple of youtube videos from Tedtalks. A psychiatrist (i think) has spent her life researching shame, which is really when someone feels they have no value. Also about being vulnerable. Her name is Brene Brown if anyone wants to look her up. I definitely think my H feels shame. Ge emailed my today saying thanks and that they were very interesting.


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2555849 04/10/15 03:21 AM
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Hello everyone, I thank you all for sharing in my story and offering support and assistance. I feel very safe here.

Today was a long day. I started a 4 month secondment, and am working longer hours, 4 days on and then 4 days off. I'm quite exhausted right now.

I came home and H had started making dinner. I actually approached him and offered a hug...well rather, I really wanted a hug. I've missed that contact. Up to now I was too afraid to, afraid to offer him hope, when I wasn't positive there was any.

We talked more than we have these last couple weeks. Mostly talking about work (interesting stories) and catching up that way.

I'm feeling complacent (sp?). Like things have settled, the emotions have subsided, and things are slipping back to our 'normal'. I really dislike the up-down-up again feelings, no one day is the same it seems.

I did purchase a book, however, by the lady I mentioned above who gave the TedTalks. I think I will learn alot from her, about being vulnerable and opening up - which is funny, as I've always been a talker - I like to talk things out, it's how I can analyse things - almost like as the words come out, they make formations in the air where I can see things more clearly.

Vanilla, thank you for saying your reasons for staying. I wonder, however, if all the changes you have made, and are still making, would happen more smoothly, maybe more quickly, if you weren't in the environment at home. I suppose, though, that is the idea behind detaching.

I think because this type of situation (trying to work on staying, rather than working on have someone stay) makes it hard for me to determine exactly what I should be doing. Should I be detaching? When you want someone to stay, you let them go, be themselves, and don't talk relationship, however is that also the case in this sitch? Do I sit quiet instead of reminding him he promised to do hypnotherapy? I feel if I detach, and don't talk relationship, and keep going to counselling, that really, I will pull away more. I was never a 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' kind of person.

I had already separated my life somewhat, already made my own plans, do things on my own, am I supposed to do it more?

I guess my original title, So Confused, is still relevant.

A Tired Dani


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2556071 04/10/15 05:35 PM
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Take extra care with yourself. Rest, great food, warm bath and gentleness.

Do you know what exactly the fear for H is with the dentist?

The things I can think of and has my H about were:

The environment (surgery itself)
The dentist
The noise
The pain
The suffocation, lying back on a couch
The opening of the mouth and discomfort
The shame of the state of the teeth
The cost of dental care

These fears are obviously very great in your H. Is it possibly a fear of intimacy?

In my H case he tells me it is the instruments and noise which are scary. He does not like sitting in the waiting rooms either. The same thing with doctors surgeries but opticians are ok! He won't use changing rooms in shops too. So might be a little claustrophobia going on. The opticians have large open windows.

Dani, there or not there will make little difference now. I can detach well now. If H is abusive then then my boundaries will be infringed. Dani I can only reflect on my own experience. What is it that enables me to stay rather than what is preventing me from going.? It seems to me these are different positions. Creating boundaries so that I can stand has been harder than either leaving or preventing myself from leaving. If that makes sense. An environment in which I stay gives me more opportunity to grow and helps my personal stability. If it makes sense I am not preventing myself from walking but creating an environment to stand and DB.

So if I look at it from a point of view of Standing (not staying) under what conditions can I do that?

1. There is no abuse
2. H is at least pleasant to be around
3. I have my own life and GAL
4. I remain detached
5. My boundaries are enforced by me
6. H is not drunk around me
7. I have IC and support
8. I can work
9. Life is peaceful and quiet
10. I have my own room
11. I am still growing and becoming so my own concerns are vital


Eventually I will need more than this in my life but for now it is enough.

Rest dear one

V


Last edited by Vanilla; 04/10/15 05:41 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Danigirl #2556332 04/11/15 05:03 PM
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Quote:
I think because this type of situation (trying to work on staying, rather than working on have someone stay) makes it hard for me to determine exactly what I should be doing. Should I be detaching? When you want someone to stay, you let them go, be themselves, and don't talk relationship, however is that also the case in this sitch? Do I sit quiet instead of reminding him he promised to do hypnotherapy? I feel if I detach, and don't talk relationship, and keep going to counselling, that really, I will pull away more. I was never a 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' kind of person.

I had already separated my life somewhat, already made my own plans, do things on my own, am I supposed to do it more?


When you say, "trying to work on staying", do you mean you are trying to work toward having the desire to stay in your M, or are you saying you have made that decision and now need to piece the M back together?

It is difficult to know what to do until you know if you want the M to work.....or if you plan to just settle for things as they are and focus on making yourself as happy as possible.

For me, my first decision was to "stay". I felt more like I was trying to just survive the addiction withdrawals from the A, and really couldn't handle much else. And as I have described in past posts, the depression was so bad b/c I felt my M was so hopeless from ever being what I wanted. This went on for quite a spell, but eventually, I had to decide if I wanted to accept a roommate/friends type of M, or if I wanted more. Sounds simple enough to our LBS friends here on the board, but for the WAS it is not that simple.

Not wanting to get your H's hopes up? I recognize those feelings very well. In fact, I acted more withdrawn just so he wouldn't think everything was back to normal. That was how messed up I felt.

I believe the WAS is the one who really sets the pace, and tone, in the R. Especially with a H turned such as our H's. If you don't have a need for more space, then don't worry about it. If you think detaching is not applicable in your stitch, then don't do it.

NOTE: For anyone else who may reading this post, I only advise this to the WAS, not the LBS, b/c the dynamics are different.

You are staying busy, which is good. You initiated a hug, which was good. You had positive interaction with him, and it made you feel good about it.......and that was very good. So, stay the course. If something doesn't work well, then make note to not do it again.

This is hard, slow work. Just stay with us, b/c it will be therapy for you to talk about it here.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2557481 04/15/15 04:25 PM
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Hello everyone, I apologize for my absence, I started a new shift schedule at work, but also was trying to have discussions with H and try and answer questions I have within myself.

I had a talk with H - I really felt I wanted him to know, for sure, that this time was different. That this time, my unhappiness isn't just going to go away now that I've vented, until the next time. I do believe he understands now. He expressed he wants to change, for him. He realizes that he isn't happy with himself, and doesn't live a happy life, and really wants that for himself, and it's time he did something about it. That he loves me, wants a life with me, and knows that for a chance at that, he has to make himself better.

I thought I had decided I was going to stay, however I'm still not sure I've made that full commitment in my heart. I've 'stayed' for so long already.

I saw my counsellor yesterday, which, as always, was eye opening. The term I've often used is "I've made my bed, now I have to lie in it", seems to have been something throughout my life that I've taken on.

I actually said, out loud, that if things hadn't happened the way they did (I became pregnant) I wouldn't have married him. I hardly knew him, his wife had just died, and there were already little signs of things that I thought were odd, or different about him. However I DID get pregnant, and I DID marry him, so felt "I've made my bed...".

So from the get go, I've pushed things down that I didn't like or agree with. As I talked about things, more and more little things kept coming into my mind, things that on their own, seemed of little significance, however when you pile them all up, and are already struggling with the relationship, they equal one big tipping point.

At the end of the discussion with H, I said that we both needed to do some work on ourselves, for ourselves, and that I wasn't looking at just getting up one day and leaving (which is true).

The counsellor talked about how long I was willing to 'wait', to which I responded that I don't feel I have alot of patience, as I have already waited so long. Have put all his needs ahead of mine. Everyone's needs ahead of mine, feeling that I had to just suck it up.

I learned that for the most part, I don't care what people think - except for those I love the most. My parents, my sister, and my kids. I will bend over backwards to NOT be part of conflict with them, if possible. I have a deep fear the kids will end up hating me (not sure why) or that my family will think I'm just one disaster after another (depression as a teen, double depression after kids, failed first marriage, unexpected pregnancy, 2nd marriage, and now all this)

I know I'm afraid to say that I want out of this relationship, because then I would have to act on it, and I'm not sure of my strength level. What IF the kids hate me?

My brain is so overloaded right now. So is H's. He's been very tired lately, plus changes at work.

Starting tomorrow I'm working nights for four days, so I won't see much of the family. Thankfully I have studying to do over the weekend, so my mind won't be realing from all the thoughts about my relationship - I could really use a break from it (I'm sure you all know how that is).

Thank you all for staying present, with me.

I'm heading out to see my mom, have coffee, talk. So thankful for my family.

Dani


Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

-The best thing about love is, you don't have to take it from one person, to give it to another.- Author Unknown
Danigirl #2557482 04/15/15 04:34 PM
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Dani, again, no advice, but support and encouragement. I wish I could be more helpful, but you're doing all the hard work already. I just want you to know someone hears you, and cares.

Hugs.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Maybell #2557488 04/15/15 04:54 PM
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Dani

Give yourself a break. A little space and time to think.

I would recommend to you that you do not make any decisions whilst you feel tired or emotional.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2558616 04/18/15 10:22 AM
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How are you Dani?

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


#2560274 04/23/15 04:58 PM
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Hi everyone,

Things have been difficult. Dealing with a new shift/job. H is dealing with a new boss at work. I haven't been able to see my counselor this week as she is away.

Last night I was watching a movie with D14 and H. I was agitated. I had had one drink - normally I am silly and fun, however I felt annoyed and angry (and told H that I was feeling that way after having a drink). I was fidgeting the whole time, big sighs. I had been thinking the last couple days I had a huge ball of stress in my stomach. I could feel it growing, and yesterday I think it started to leak.

After the movie I left to go to the drug store, I needed a prescription filled (had been meaning to go, but kept forgetting, and now I was out of the anti-depressant that helps me sleep). They told me they couldn't fill last night, as too many people ahead of me. I asked if I could just get one - tears in my eyes, and the stress coming up. She said No. I went to the car and cried. Started driving home, and called my mom (who lives close) said I needed to come over NOW.

So I went and broke down. I was feeling so hugely stressed about everything. My dad has a hard time seeing me upset. Commends my strength throughout the life I've had with H (they know how much I've given up and sacrificed to keep the family functioning). He has a hard time seeing H not help me with things that need to be done. I really just needed to cry and talk - to let that bit of air out, so I could breathe again.

I don't know how I can keep staying in the same house. How can I work on things, it feels so crowded here.

He is quiet. We don't talk about anything important. Barely functioning. He could see I'd been crying last night - told him I broke after not getting meds. He knows it's so much more than that.

I couldn't sleep. Tossed and turned all night. He reached out to me a few times - his leg touching mine, or his hand on my arm. We haven't touched in bed for quite awhile. All I could think is "he knows he may not get to feel this again".

All this time I've felt stressed, upset, tired. Last night I felt angry, agitated. I wanted to lash out, to hit something. If we had a treadmill I'd have run on it - and I don't run.

I feel I have no where to release all this built up stuff.

Thinking of writing him a letter to tell where I'm at. So hard as I don't want to hurt him, however feel that right now, I'm doing so much hurting.

I start a four day work block tomorrow - noon to 11:15pm. I won't really see him. That will be some relief for me. Work helps me take my mind off things.

I'm sorry I've been absent - not much time on the computer. I've been withdrawn from life I guess.

I promise to try and write more often as it is therapeutic.

Dani


Edit - Post merged with previous thread

Last edited by Cadet; 04/23/15 05:04 PM. Reason: message

Me: 44 H: 47
T: 16 M: 14
Kids: S24,S21,S20,D18,D14
2008-2015 - Almost WAW

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Huge, huge hug for you. More later.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
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Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

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Dani

You sound very down indeed. Physiologically drained by the struggle.

I would love for you to take extraordinary care of yourself even though H is not taking care of himself. To have some Dani time, to go GAL, a short holiday even a couple of days with a fun girlfriend.

I understand the need to escape and thankfully I do not have to go to bed with my H. His hygiene lacks at the moment but at least he is showering most days and I am washing his clothes. The cigarettes are bad and the unkempt look goes a long way. So I understand the reluctant contact. I used to be attracted to H but an unkempt man with bad breath and a beer belly isn't my idea of lovely any more.

I threw away his pillows and bought new ones in the sales. Bedding is unchanged sometimes for long periods. I do steal his towels to wash at high heat.

Truly this is hard work for you, with H not iniating change then even harder. This may take some time to resolve and Dani I would love to see you detach from H and your sitch. It appears pressure cooked.

Keep on posting Dani, you can off load here with the DB board members who will give you all the support that we can.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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