I apologize if this is not correct usage of this message board. I'm only posting my history here to give some background to my situation and hoping you all may give me some good advice which I'm not getting out here in the real world. I know this isn't Supposed to be used for counseling and that isn't my intent. I'm 37 my wife is 33. We've been together about 15 years (a break while she was away at college then we got together again) and married 3 years and have a 6 year old son. We were rocky when my son was born but stayed together and I moved in with them when my son was about 2. Things were seemingly good to me though we had some fights/arguing occasionally. About a year into our marriage we had a huge fight and she told me how terrible of a husband I've been and after taking a long loom in the mirror I knew she was right. I never wanted to do things with her because I'm uncomfortable in social situations, I didn't make her feel appreciated or compliment her, I didn't do enough to help out around the house, etc. Basically I made her feel like we were roommates rather than a couple. And I get it. So I started doing the things I wasn't doing before and stopped doing what I was but we still kept fighting. There were periods of calm and we got along but we had 1 big fight per month that kept getting worse. We separated in the beginning of February... I moved out at her request. This separation was supposed to be space for us to stop the fighting and hopefully start working on things. We were both having a hard time with the separation and still had some fights. Nothing too bad but enough to not help. Anyway, I found she slept with someone else last week. She'd been acting strangely and finally came clean. Initially she said it's not a big deal because we're separated but then she became very remorseful and said it was the biggest mistake of her life. She looked terrible and got in huge trouble at work which said was because how bad she felt and couldn't concentrate and almost caused a serious problem at work. Of course I was angry and said some things I regret but after I cooled off I apologized and said I understand why it happened, as hard as it is to swallow. I told her I still want to try and work things out if she does. She said she still has a small glimmer of hope that we can but she knows it'll be hard for me to move on and she doesn't know if she can forgive herself and look me in the eye. Right now we're barely talking other than stuff concerning our son. Every time I see her she looks like she'd been crying and she says she's having a really hard time dealing with everything i.e. separation, work, her "mistake", etc. She says she's falling into a depression. She also said this mistake wasn't a planned thing and she was so lost and stressed she just made the mistake of seeking some kind of comfort and escape. I don't know if I should believe her remorse and if I should continue trying to save our marriage. I still love her and want it to work but I'm so lost and confused right now. After reading my story could you please share your thoughts with me? Please?!?! Does her remorse sound sincere? Does that sound like a reasonable explanation to why she slept with someone? Am I being naive in still hoping to save our marriage? I'm willing to move passed this and put in whatever time and effort I need to and correct my own issues but I'm worried I'm wasting my time. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Bump Please any advice/thoughts will be greatly appreciated. I'm drowning here.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Cadet, thank you so much for your reply and all of the information. I'll begin reading all of it today.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Nick I'm going to be blunt for a moment. Can you explain why you just got married three years ago? You got your W pregnant seven years ago, didn't move in with your wife until your son was 2, then waited further to get married?!? Don't go the BS route of "money" or "timing", those are rationalizations. It sounds to me as if you have always kept your wife pushed off in case something better came along. You've had what's been referred to as a "renters" mentality when it comes to your relationship, rather than a "buyers" mentality. With an attitude like that, you will never have a good marriage, even if you got back together.
I think a separation is EXACTLY a what the two of you need to get your priorities in line. I'm not saying either of you should date other people- you are, after all, married - but you should learn how to date EACH OTHER. You should learn how to make each other your number one priority and commit to making each other happy and meet each other's emotional needs. Once you can do that successfully, and you can agree to maintaining a marriage philosophy that continues those good habits, then you should move back in together.
Hi HS and thank you for your reply and insight. We didn't plan on getting pregnant. She was just back from college and we reunited and one thing led to another and she was pregnant. She was still living with her parents and had just just started her new career. She didn't want to move in together right away because she wanted to save to buy a house. I wanted to live together. We discussed getting married but decided together to wait awhile. I don't recall exactly why but I think we both wanted to make sure it's what we wanted to do. We stayed together and things were pretty good and after 2 years we had enough to buy our house and that's when we moved in together. Shortly after I got a promotion at work and started working 6 and 7 days a week 10 to 12 hours a day. Her career was sliding due to the economy. We still discussed getting married but kept putting it off. Finally when my son was about 4 I proposed and she accepted. We were planning to marry later that year when she got laid off. So we decided to marry right away so I could get he on my medical coverage. Everything seemed great but in hindsight I see that I was being an absent husband. It wasn't intentional I just worked a lot. I was trying to do the best I could and what I thought was right. Fast forward 2 years and she landed a great job in a whole new field and it was an extremely hard and stressful transition for her. I thought I was doing my part at the time to help but now I know I wasnt. I was exhausted all the time and didn't want to do anything but relax. We started fighting all a lot and finally she let me have it and told me how bad of a husband I've been with the neglect and absenteeism and all. Naturally I wasn't hearing any of it and became defensive only making matters worse. We held on awhile and separated recently. I appreciate your reply but I never was waiting for something better to come along. I love my wife and always have. I made a ton of mistakes but I never meant to be hurtful or push her away. I have always wanted her and her only.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Hi Cadet. I've been reading all of the links you provided and they're great. The problem is I'm pretty much guilty of doing all of the things these links say not to do. When we separated at 1st I was angry and wasn't very nice. Then I started with the desperation and pleading, crying, reminiscing about the good times. I already blew that right? So now what? I have begun to GAL. I immediately started going back to the gym and finding things to do to try and occupy my free time so I'm not laying in bed depressed. I don't have many friends left in my area that I can go out with. The ones still around don't go out as they're married and with children. I don't really like to drink anymore and don't want to be the creepy late 30's guy hanging at the bar alone. As for detaching. That's the hardest part. We have a child and communicate daily about him and who's getting him from school or when I'm coming to get him, etc. And it's just hard. I miss my wife. Besides, one of the biggest complaints she had against me was that I basically ignored her. Won't she view my detaching as more of what I've already been doing? And the wayward wife bit. She fits that exactly. As stated she slept with someone shortly after I moved out. She seems remorseful and tore up about it but I don't know if I should believe her or not. I even apologized to her for pushing her to do it. How pathetic is that? I sincerely felt terrible after the initial anger subsided. I'm sure my apology was a major mistake too.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
This is all so hard to wrap my head around. Have there been a lot of success stories on these boards from using the techniques? Obviously it's working for people or the board wouldn't be so huge. I'm just so lost right now and can't even think of how I'm going to be able to do this. I just wanna crawl under a rock and not come out.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
I will read your post and comment very soon. But for now, PLEASE write in small separate paragraphs so it's easier for us to read.
And understand that while you are on moderation, which is temporary, you will get fewer replies.
But we are here and this is a great place to be, although for a lousy reason.
YES DB can work. It worked a lot better than every other approach I tried and believe me, I tried several.
Keep on keeping on...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you 25yearsmlc and MrBond. I'm sorry about the huge posts. I'm new to this and trying to squeeze in everything I can without really thinking things through. I have DB and am reading it now and hope to get DR and whatever else is suggested soon. Thank you also MrBond for giving me hope with your success. And congratulations! Some days I just feel like not getting out of bed right now.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Hi Cadet. I've been reading all of the links you provided and they're great. The problem is I'm pretty much guilty of doing all of the things these links say not to do. When we separated at 1st I was angry and wasn't very nice. Then I started with the desperation and pleading, crying, reminiscing about the good times. I already blew that right? So now what?
Start over, that's what. Move "From this day forward" like the marriage vows tell us to. And stop thinking about a one night stand she had, which she confessed and expressed remorse for. It's not an "affair" or something that is pulling her away from you anymore than a dozen other factors which ought to be your focus.
And I mean it in my signature when I say "forgiveness is OUR way out of hell." I would drop that and never bring it up again. No throwing it in her face or holding it over her head.
Hopefully she will feel the forgiveness from you AND then want to extend it to you.
Forgiveness is a two way street but we often must model it for our spouses by giving it to them. For many of us, forgiveness is a learned skill. (I know I sure never saw it growing up).
Make sense?
I have begun to GAL. I immediately started going back to the gym and finding things to do to try and occupy my free time so I'm not laying in bed depressed. GOOD^^^. Keep it up but GAL that involves doing things with OTHERS so you can make new friends.
Take a class, (a foreign language? A musical instrument?)
Go back to college? Study cooking? Wine tasting?
Anything at all that has interested you in the past. Even just one night a week would be good and not take too much time away from your son.
JOIN something like a club or team,
or VOLUNTEER somewhere. There are so many ways to meet new people and GAL, the list is endless.
Do not get stuck b/c I sense inertia on your end about too many things. Like the excuses for not doing more GAL are just that; i.e. excuses.
Push yourself and you will feel better and it is simply more attractive/attracting to be with someone who is interested in the world. They become more interestING.
And become the best father you can become. No woman is unmoved by the loving interaction between her child and its' father. For many of us it is a turn on.
For some, just being a good father is enough to stay married. Maybe not with your wife but it would help for sure.
I don't have many friends left in my area that I can go out with. The ones still around don't go out as they're married and with children. I don't really like to drink anymore and don't want to be the creepy late 30's guy hanging at the bar alone. Make new friends. See above^^.
As for detaching. That's the hardest part. We have a child and communicate daily about him and who's getting him from school or when I'm coming to get him, etc. And it's just hard. I miss my wife. Besides, one of the biggest complaints she had against me was that I basically ignored her. Won't she view my detaching as more of what I've already been doing?
That is a legit question and presents a dilemma for us DBers. I get that. I also think you both sorely lack in conflict resolution skills b/c your fights continue to escalate and neither seems to learn how to prevent that.
It's a learned skill. Plus you must show her that you will NOT fight "dirty" by throwing low blows for instance. (NEVER ever bring up the one night stand if you want to take the high road AND have a chance at staying married. That must be seen as off limits by you, forever. Understood?)
I'd suggest you both attend Retrovaille which is a marriage retreat for marriages in crisis. It's well done and you will meet the "team couples" who have had their ups and downs and yet stayed together. Their stories will make you both feel blessed as their hardships will amaze you. At ours, one couple had lost a child AND the h had an affair resulting in a pregnancy, so you'll feel inspired.
And if you can, hire a DB coach b/c they are excellent. But at some point, preferably sooner, you'll both learn better communication skills and HOW "not" to fight.
I mean, I don't see you working out as a couple without some conflict resolution. So for sure, check out Retrovaille in your area as soon as you can.
2 things our priest said when he married us, which were useful, was 1) "the amount of conflict a couple faces is not relevant, b/c life throws more at some of us. What matters is HOW we resolve conflict;
and 2) deception isn't helpful or good in a marriage - but neither is causing it; meaning, if you tend to over react when your spouse admits an error, you only encourage them to hide their mistakes in the future.
(Think of a fender bender that you go nuts about, so the next time your wife or son dents a car, you won't learn of it til the insurance rates go. You share in the responsibility there).
Make sense?
Also for now, do MORE with your son than before. It'll be a way to stay a bit detached and GAL, while also not "ignoring" your wife and you'll be closer to your son too.
When your w reaches out to you in any way, respond in a supportive Upbeat manner. Make eye contact with her when she speaks and validate her feelings even if you don't agree with them or "like' them.
Let her feel as she does.
And the wayward wife bit. She fits that exactly. As stated she slept with someone shortly after I moved out. She seems remorseful and tore up about it but I don't know if I should believe her or not. I even apologized to her for pushing her to do it. I would bet she felt pushed. Now, say no more. She made a mistake and she owned it. Don't push for more. Good grief, what do you need from her now? You agree that you played a significant role in your marital problems and the "OM" did NOT cause the separation.
Most of the time, shame eventually converts into resentment and blame. The more you push her to feel worse about something she already admitted and regrets, the more likely you will push her AWAY for good. Drop it.
How pathetic is that? I sincerely felt terrible after the initial anger subsided. I'm sure my apology was a major mistake too.
No it wasn't. Not in my opinion.
Your focus on the one night stand is a mistake, especially since you two have repeatedly separated and you fight badly, and got married in such a delayed manner, - those facts all show there were problems at a very basic level.
You both need to do some work but from the sounds of it, she has been more than pulling her own weight for some time. That is where RETROVAILLE comes in.
And make no mistake, your delay in proposing til your son turned 4,(??!!) at some level, would bother 90% of the women I know, if not more.
It's not "flattering" to know that you were not head over heels for sure in love with her, from the get go. Add to that, the way you worked and did little else...
I mean, I read your explanation of the marriage timing, and it sounds so "practical" and logistically based, I wasn't moved at all.
I guess the word would be "underwhelmed" by your love & commitment. So, if that's not the case and you really are wanting THIS marriage to work, then by God, work on the marriage.
But still GAL B/c it makes you a more interesting partner who isn't just going to work and home, day in, day out...that is no way to live. You want to be bringing something to the table as a man, right?
Temporarily I understand the work work work approach with a goal in mind which you BOTH agreed to. I am a lawyer and my h is an MD. We married in college. So we have had a lot of "Delayed gratification" in our marriage. Years of it.
When it's temporary- it is usually manageable.
What gets terrifying and very depressing, is when we fear/realize "THIS is it"???
What do you think?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hi Cadet. I've been reading all of the links you provided and they're great. The problem is I'm pretty much guilty of doing all of the things these links say not to do. When we separated at 1st I was angry and wasn't very nice. Then I started with the desperation and pleading, crying, reminiscing about the good times. I already blew that right? So now what?
That is why it is called a 180!
It is not too late.
25mlc has given you good advice.
DB'ing is not a magic FIX or an easy button to press and all will be OK. It is a lot of hard work. It is never too late to start
My suggestion is get a beginners mind (DB101) and start from there.
Thank you both for the advice and replies but I think it's certainly done now. My son told me a week or so ago he had thoughts of hurting himself and I tried to deal with it by myself as I didn't want to alarm W. She's already going through a lot. I told her yesterday and asked that she talk to him and she said she would talk to him last night. She went to dinner with friends and after about 9pm I contacted her to see when she'd be home and she told me to just drop our son at her parents if I needed to because she wouldn't be home for awhile. I lost it. I went off the deep end and said some things about her priorities I know I shouldn't have said. Long story short she told me to file for divorce cuz she's done and then today told me if I don't she is going to. I wish I would've taken a deep breath and stepped back for a moment but I couldn't believe she wasn't that concerned about what I told her.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Hi sandi, I did tell her yesterday and that's what led to our fight. I told her in the afternoon because I couldn't keep to myself any longer and she said she was going to talk to him last night. Instead she went to dinner with friends. I reached out to her at 9pm to see when she wanted me to drop him off and she told me that she wasn't going to be home for awhile and if I needed to I should drop him off at her parents. I was furious and called her every type of bad mother I could think of. We talked today and we're going to make an appointment for him to talk to someone.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Do her parents know about their grandson's behavior?
Let others talk to her about him IF she is not "available" when you speak to her. Maybe she cannot 'hear you" now but perhaps she could hear someone else.
This is not about being right; it's about doing what works and for now your son must be THE priority.
Don't worry about the divorce as much as HIM (and don't assume staying together with an unworkable relationship and no conflict resolution skills would "fix" it all).
In other words, your wife has to feel she can reach out to her son without necessarily tying it to the marriage, okay?
Work on him AND you and leave the rest. Turn your marriage over to God and help your son.
As for being hopeless about the marriage, I told my sisters in 2006 I was getting divorced, only seeing "maybe a 10% chance of staying married." IT's not over til it's really over and she remarries and has another kid....and even then, maybe.
Don't worry about what SHE SAYS, and only worry about half of what she DOES.
Keep on keeping on.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you 25yearsmlc. You're right... I'm trying to forget about what happens between us and only worry about my son's well being. That on top of everything else is seriously driving me insane. I think I've lost 15lbs since he told me and haven't slept more than 2 or 3 hours a night. It's killing me that he felt that way and I'm the cause of it. I can't forgive myself for that and all of the other mistakes I've made and keep on making. I am going back to church tomorrow and throwing myself at God's mercy. I can't make it with my baby feeling this way. I see know other way of making it through any of this. I haven't been to church in a long time and I can't wait to get there.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Nick, I would suggest that in addition to going back to church, that you do some reading. First- there are many books and articles on how to be a supportive, present, father. No matter what happens between you and your W, that little guy needs to feel that you love him unconditionally, and he needs to feel safe and validated. Second- you need to read about how to make a successful M relationship, because I feel that you really don't know what that would even look like. My recommendation on a book to start with is "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders". You and your wife had a "renters" mentality in your R, which sets you up for a bad marriage. That's why I think this separation will be good for both of you. I think that you need to understand where you were, and what a good M is, before you can invite your W back into a loving relationship with you.
Quiet down and listen. Stop waiting to talk, you put your foot in your mouth when you do. Listen, listen, validate, listen some more. You think that you know your wife, but the truth is that you don't. She will tell you if you listen. BTW, if your wife complains to you, rejoice! It means that she sees hope (though it may not seem that way to you!). If you bully your wife with your words, she will retreat from you and stop any complaining and keep her interactions with you to a minimum. If you stop that behavior and start to listen and validate, she will slowly poke her head back out and complain. Do not defend yourself! Just listen and validate ("yes, I can see how much that must have hurt you" etc.).
If you stop making mistakes I think you have a VERY good chance of getting your wife back. Make sure to follow my advice on reading, though, or she will come back to a bad marriage and the next time she may leave for good. -HS
My W and I had been arguing regularly for the last 2 weeks. Finally Sunday I told her I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm done fighting. I'm going to accept that we are parting ways and I told her I forgive her for whatever she did to me (she slept with someone a month after separation and has been seeing him regularly since), hoped she'd forgive me someday for anything I've done, and that I would only contact her regarding our son.
That evening when I took our son to her house she talked and joked with me and we laughed together for about 20 minutes. Tuesday we both attended my son's baseball practice and the 2 of us passed ball for about 45 minutes and talked, joked around and laughed. At Wednesdays practice we were watching when I noticed she would stand close to me then move away. I would inch away and she would move closer. Then I noticed she was watching a couple with a newborn near us and it looked like she got teary-eyed. She had sunglasses on so couldn't tell for sure. I could also tell she wanted to say something but I wasn't going to dig.
Finally she said "So G (our son) said to me that since you and daddy were having so much fun passing ball that's a good sign you're going to get back together". I told her I don't know what to say that and she said she didn't know how to reply to him. I asked her what she thought about what he said and she told me she doesn't know. She doesn't want him to be confused since we both don't know what's going to happen. This is coming off of a good 2-3 weeks solid of pretty heated arguments and her saying she's filing for divorce numerous times. I told her I'll always think of getting back together,which I know is a mistake, and then asked her what she felt about what he said. Again she responded that she doesn't know but got real quiet and didn't say anything for a few minutes. We talked and joked around a little longer then she had to leave and I walked her to her car.
I'm sure I did a lot of things wrong during that interaction but inside I was crying tears of joy to hear what she said about not knowing what's going to happen. Should I feel hopeful? Was that really a positive thing or am I just being blinded by my desire to repair my marriage? Should I stop talking and joking with her and trying to be friendly? I don't call, text, or email her at all unless it concerns our child and won't but I don't know what to do next.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Should I feel hopeful? Was that really a positive thing or am I just being blinded by my desire to repair my marriage? Should I stop talking and joking with her and trying to be friendly? I don't call, text, or email her at all unless it concerns our child and won't but I don't know what to do next.
Re-read what you just wrote (your entire post, not just the clip I have quoted here), and then re-read it again. I know it's hard, but try to read is as an outside party, reading about two other people.
a) Do you see what "worked" -- what re-attracted your wife?
b) Do you see the error in what you're thinking now?
DBing, above all use, is about "doing what works." Study what WORKS not only in your own sitch but in basic male-female human attraction. And then apply it.
If you have trouble doing this ^^^, let me know. I can be your "outside party" (and a female voice at that). It's as clear to me as it obviously is to my friend, Starsky. .
I'll wait to see your reply before chiming in though, nick.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Thank you both for replying. I do see what worked and am committed to sticking to it. I'm just amazed that it worked so fast. We've been going through it for 2 years and the last 2-3 weeks were very ugly. And to see positive results in less than 24 hours? That's why I wonder if this is all just wishful thinking.
Starsky, I do believe she is still in contact with the other man but I'm not asking about it.
Train, I'd love to hear a females perspective on what happened and how I should move forward. I don't want to do something to sabotage what progress has been made.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Hi Hopefulstill and thank you for your advice and replies. I've been very busy taking care of my son and trying to GAL. And fighting with my W. But I didn't initiate these fights though once baited in I did take part. For over 2 weeks. I finally put my foot in my mouth as you suggested and have not engaged in another fight. Actually if you will see the last few posts that I posted today I saw some pretty unbelievable results from putting my foot in mouth. I wish I would've had the control to do it sooner but I'm learning. It's a plan I'm going to follow from here on out as well as the rest of your advice.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Man this is impossible. I've been fine all week and felt really encouraged after a couple nice interactions with my W earlier this week. Then this morning I had to take some papers to my W that she asked for and needed ASAP and when I got to her house I saw the other guy was there. They work together and just finished a night shift. My heart sank and I just wanted to die. I guess inside I was hoping she would stop seeing him since she just finished telling me she doesn't know what's going to happen between us.
I'm seriously working on myself. I'm going to counseling weekly, exercising regularly and losing a ton of weight, hanging out with old friends that have kids my son's age, meeting new people, etc. But I can't completely detach. I want to and know I need to but I'm constantly thinking of my W and her being with another man. It's killing me. I don't know what to do next. I'm not going to say anything to her about him being there or engage in any arguments but I can't stop feeling like I'm dying inside. Does it ever get any easier?
I know people have turned marriages around but I can't see it. I don't see how I can ever do anything with him in the way. I'm so lost.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
I was hoping she would stop seeing him since she just finished telling me she doesn't know what's going to happen between us.
She was keeping you as the backup plan, you must be the #1 plan or else you don't want her back! I know thats not what you think right now, but affairs die, and they die faster when you are not the back up plan. And right now she may see it that way.
Thanks Cadet. I'm trying to let go but it's hard. Insanely hard.
I do want her back and want to be the #1 plan. I guess I'm just finding it hard to figure out how to do that. I am trying though.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
When you went to her house and the OM was there, describe the interaction between everyone. You said you didn't say anything about him to her, but tell us more.
Let me share with you what I see as a big mistake newcomer H's make. He steps back and stops engaging in arguments. Suddenly, the tension is broken and he and his WW are on more friendly grounds again. He sees this as great progress, to the point of thinking everything is back to going uphill again. He gets all excited and thinks, "I can't believe it was so simple. This is great!" It usually takes less than 48 hrs for him to discover how wrong he was.
I will try to save time by not repeating myself, if you'll read the thread, "For Newcomer LBH with Wayward Wife". I believe I touched on this particular action that you've experienced.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi sandi and thank you. I will read the thread you mentioned. I simply dropped off the paperwork she needed in the mailbox and left. There was no interaction.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
1 of the biggest things I'm struggling with and obstacles I see, however true or false it may be, is feeling inadequate. I had a very well paying job that I left because it was part of our marital problems. I worked 6-7 days a week, long hours and was constantly stressed out. I left to pursue something I've always wanted to do so I wouldn't have to work so much and wouldn't be so stressed and distant. My W supported the move fully.
She and the OP work together and have jobs paying in the 6 figures. I remember her telling me a long time before we separated about him and how he's 35 and going to retire early because he has so much money saved.
Here I am in school and living off of savings that I saved in anticipation of quitting my job and she's with him. I can't offer that. Even when I'm finished with school I won't have that kind of money. I never needed to be wealthy and W never cared either but it bothers me now greatly.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Nick, financial stability is important to most women. Wealth is usually not.
Re: the interactions with your W, you're seeing positive improvements - even if small - when you're backing off and giving her space. When you allow your feelings/W's positive responses to hurl you back in, your W backs off.
Read the "pursuit-distance" link that Cadet included in his initial post to you. It's solid gold.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Thank you Train for your reply. I read the thread and will make sure I follow the principles outlined in it. I was just so happy when she said "we don't know what's going to happen" that all I heard was "there's a chance we'll be together again".
I read Sandis thread about LBH and WW as well and need to start following that more closely. It just seems so counter productive though it makes sense.
Can someone advise me what to do with my current dilemma? My son's 7th bday is next week and W bought him a trampoline for the yard and I offered to help my father-in-law put it up while she's at work and his in school. Should I still do it?
And every year on his bday we would take him to dinner wherever he chose and I asked W if we were still going to do that this year. She's working but said she'd meet us wherever when she gets off. Should I cancel that too?
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Can someone advise me what to do with my current dilemma? My son's 7th bday is next week and W bought him a trampoline for the yard and I offered to help my father-in-law put it up while she's at work and his in school. Should I still do it?
And every year on his bday we would take him to dinner wherever he chose and I asked W if we were still going to do that this year. She's working but said she'd meet us wherever when she gets off. Should I cancel that too?
As far as the trampoline goes, why would you punish your son by not doing it?
What do YOU want to do about dinner?
There are no right or wrong answers here, you must detach, can you go to dinner and be detached? Yes but it will take practice and is something that will not happen over night.
I don't want to punish my son I was just curious if that would be seen by her as appeasing. You're right. I want to and will put up the trampoline.
As far as dinner is concerned I hope I can go and be detached. I'll just feel awkward because I'm not really sure how to do that while we're both sitting there. But I want to go. I want my son to be happy.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Hi Nick, I would put S's Bday first and your sitch second here. The tramp is for him, and I don't think there's any problem helping with that. It's an act of love for him.
As for the meal, I would carry on with that lovely family tradition. Your W can link in if she wants to - if not, I'm sure you'll have a lovely time anyway.
Hope he has a great day!
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thanks Toots for your reply. I am going to put up the trampoline and go to dinner. I'm kind of hoping W doesn't come because I'm not sure how to go to dinner with her sitting right there and be detached aside from outright ignoring her. I'm sure that would turn out great.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
This afternoon I was taking a walk when W texted me and asked me to come get our son early so she could get to work early. I said sure and walked over. She was putting gas in her car and our son was in the drivers seat with the music blasting and dancing.
I walked up with a smile and said hi she smiled and said hi back then I started talking to S and didn't even look at her. She commented on how much gas her SUV uses and I agreed that it uses a lot but it's to be expected with her type of vehicle.
Then I told S it's time to go, said bye and walked away and never looked back.
Is that an appropriate interaction? I feel stupid for asking but I'm so new and bad at this and don't want to come off as being rude but also don't want to look like I'm trying too hard. I apologize if this is a dumb question but I really don't know.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
It sounds like you handled it perfectly if you ask me.
Me: 42 W: 32 Married 7 years together 8.5 S1: 7 S2:7 Bomb #1: 09-16-13 Recon #1: 11/13 A discovered 04-03-2014 W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me I filed D 12-02-2014 S 05-31-14 Divorced 5-19-16
Thank you pilot. I was really worried that I was wrong and seemed rude.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Hi Nick, I think it is your demeanour that's important. If your demeanour was pleasant with your W during that interaction, I think it was perfect. If your demeanour was cold, and you were unsmiling, it may have come off as rude or reactive.
So, keep aiming for brief, pleasant, 'neighbourly' - I'm a guy with lots on and you are not central to my plans here - but never in an unpleasant, abrupt, cold way...
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thanks Toots. I think I was pleasant. I smiled the whole time and kept everything I said to W very brief. I'll keep at it.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Last night while shopping with son I ran into a woman I went to high school with and we talked for 10 minutes or so. She's recently divorced and suggested we get together sometime. We exchanged numbers. She's an attractive woman and we always got along in school but I don't want to do anything detrimental to my DB'ing. Would having dinner or drinks with her be stupid?
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Hi Nick, I'm very much in the 'dating is a bad idea' camp - so I'll be upfront about that. Others on the boards may have different views, and there have been interesting debates - particularly on Mozza's thread. There are a few reasons for my response:
You only S a couple of months ago, so your sitch is fresh You are still M, hoping to save your M (or why would you be here) Your W recently slept with someone else and you feel raw (understandably) about it
IMHO, it would be much more healthy to say to this woman - hey, thanks for suggesting we get together - but I'm not going out with other women right now. I don't know when or if that may change. I'm still hoping our M might be saved.
You may say - oh, but it would just be on a friendly basis. But you have already said she is recently divorced and attractive - so I don't think it would be 'just friends' from what you say. Given your W's recent ONS, I can understand you feeling raw, but watch out that you are not just walking into something that looks like a retaliatory affair with this.
I think it would be much more healthy to go through the process of DBing, self-improvement, healing and moving foward with the love and support of friends and family, and not quickly get involved with a new OP.
Just MHO. Going out with someone else, could wake your W up a bit to the possibility of losing you. But the idea of dating anyone else for 'reaction' purposes is just wrong I feel.
Good luck with whatever you decide...:-)
Last edited by Toots; 04/19/1503:12 PM.
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thanks Toots. I agree. In fact just last week I met someone through a friend (unintentionally) and turned down her request to get together sometime for the reasons you mentioned. I guess I was looking at this as more just getting together with an old friend but under the circumstances I think it's best not to.
Just to clarify though W had a ONS a month after S which has turned into a regular thing. They're at each others homes regularly. After the ONS she was remorseful and said it was a mistake but now since we were fighting she says she doesn't feel bad about it and it's not an affair or cheating since we're separated and she says the marriage is over.
Then just last week she said "we don't know what's going to happen between us". It's all very confusing. But I won't contact the woman or try to meet anyone else. Whatever happens with my M I want to be able to look in the mirror and know that I did everything I possibly could to save it and at least stayed faithful to my M even at its lowest point.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Does my W even fit the description of a WW? As far as I know she never actually cheated while we were together. I had my suspicions the last year or 6 months before S because of how protective she was of her cell phone all of a sudden and that I found a bunch of male coworkers phone numbers on our bill. Conveniently the paper bill stopped coming after I brought it up and I was accused of spying. But I never had any actual proof of an affair.
It wasn't until a month after I moved out that she slept with someone, a coworker, and she was truly remorseful after talking about it for 2 hours. Then we kept fighting and it has turned into a regular thing now that she says she has every right to do because she's an adult and our marriage is basically over and she doesn't regret it anymore.
I don't think this would change what my approach needs to be but I'm just confused as to whether or not W would be considered a WW. If not do I need to change my approach or does everything remain the same? I apologize for asking what probably seem like stupid questions but I'm confused by a lot of this as well as extremely emotional which isn't helping process everything accurately.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
I'm wondering lately if this is even worth it. I loved who my W used to be but who she's becoming is someone I'm starting to despise. She was always a great mother and did everything for and with our S. But now I think she's so caught up with OM she's just forgetting about our S and I can't deal with that.
He had some disturbing things to tell me a month ago and when I told her about it she just brushed it off and left it for me to deal with which I'm doing. And his behavior is getting more worrisome. He had a huge meltdown last night which is so far out of character for him. I told W and she basically said I'll talk to him but he's just being dramatic. He's not. He's hurting bad.
He tells me every day when I get him that he doesn't do anything with her while he's there. Just watch TV while she's on the phone or texting. She always did stuff with him in the past. She was a great mother.
I'm starting to think she's such a different person now that there will be nothing left of the person I loved. I'm beginning to cope with what's happening between us but avoiding our S's issues or putting OM 1st is unforgivable.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Nick, It is yours to decide if the A is too much for you to want to get back together. If you want to repair your M, be prepared for much heartache to come before it's over. I think most of us felt the way that you do right now. If you can tough it out, and repair your M, I think your son will be better off for it, and I think that you and your W will be happy if you follow the plan to get a HAPPY marriage- not just a marriage.
Thanks HS. I do hope our M can be saved and that her behavior is just a result of some emotional turmoil with the situation rather than a real change. It's just hard to believe that the woman I knew who was always a great mother is so different right now. I expected her to be different towards me but not our S.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
I had to think of my wife as a drug addict. They lie, cheat, steal and alienate their families to keep feeding the addiction to their drug of choice. In this case, that drug is the OM. Would you abandon your wife if she was suffering from a substance abuse problem? Probably not- this is the same. The same reward centers in the brain that cause drug addictions are stimulated during an affair, so it's no wonder the behaviors are the same.
Some addicts are mentally strong enough to extricate themselves from their addiction - for others, they must crash and burn first. I was lucky, eventually my wife pulled herself out of the A to work on our M. For many on this board, they must wait for the A to die a natural death before their spouse crawls back. I will say that once your spouse decides to join you in a M recovery plan, the person you remember will come back- I promise you that.
My W and the OM seem to be getting pretty serious. They're together almost all the time. I don't know what to do. I've been very good about detaching and GAL but it doesn't seem to be phasing her at all.
2 weeks ago she told me "neither of us know what's going to happens BETWEEN US..." and I want to know if she's still thinking that or even considering reconciling but don't know if I should ask or just leave it alone.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
Detaching and GAL are for YOU. They are to help YOU. She will not be "phased" by this, not right now, and maybe not ever. Accepting THAT is part of detachment, and the sooner you accept this, the sooner you will be successful.
My W and OM are together all the time as well. They work together, they talk on the phone in the morning and evening, they spend nights and weekends together. This is an indication of where she is right now.
OM is fulfilling needs that haven't been met, possibly for a long time. Getting those needs met is part of what creates the addiction, and the "fog". The taboo and the secrecy of it contribute to it as well, but sometimes on a nearly imperceptible level.
Since she is where she is, and you are where you are, there is nothing you can do to positively affect the situation. Anything you do try to influence it (directly or indirectly) WILL backfire, and she will see it as a control attempt on your part.
Work on YOU, reclaim YOUR life, and if SHE eventually decides she likes what she sees, AND is willing to take the chance, you will be ready for her. If she is not willing, you will be ready for a new chapter. Either way, you will be ready.
Stop focusing on her. You can't do anything with that right now. Focus on YOU, and focus on your relationship with your CHILD.
I see her statement from 2 weeks ago as keeping you on the chain. Let it be, and do not pursue it. Now is not the time.
Me: 30, W: 29 S: 4 T: 14 M: 5 BD: March, 2015, ILYBNILWY, IDLY, Need Space OM, EA/PA Discovered (drunken kissing, she says she stopped there? NOPE!): March 2015 S: April 25th, 2015
Thank you JAS84. You're right. I do need to stop worrying about her and just focus on myself and my son. It's just harder than I thought it would be but I think I'm getting better at it.
Me:37, W:33, S:7 T:10 total (split while she was in college) M:3 S:2/4/15 EA confirmed: 3/7/15 D mentioned numerous times since 2/4/15, nothing filed...yet
It IS hard, isn't it? My W and I were together for 9 years, then married for 5 before BD. We got together when I was 16, and she was 15. We had been together for HALF OF OUR LIVES.
Now she is with OM. And it stinks. As much as I thought an A would be a deal-breaker, right now, I don't feel like it needs to be. That thought may change again before this is all said and done. I don't know, and I accept that I don't know.
The turning point for me was when she moved out this past Saturday. I realized that I had been doing things alone for just about the past month, and it was OK. I had been focused on HER, and what SHE was doing wrong, and hadn't thought enough about myself, and how I could improve.
I now have the freedom to do that, to straighten out my life, and enjoy the time I have with family, friends, my son (on weeks I have him), and work on my house. These are all things that she wanted me to do, mind you, but the perspective is different: They are things I NEED to do, as a MAN. They ARE things that will bring happiness to my life, and whether she accepts my changes as an avenue back into a life together, well... That is her decision to make, and whatever the decision is, it will come WITH TIME.
My side of the street, as it were, will be spotless and gleaming, even having been "repaved" as a result of my "community improvement project". But I treat our "street" as the border between two towns. Her side: Again, up to her, and the decisions she makes about her emotional "budget".
People will be drawn to me because of my confidence, my strength, my compassion, and my love for myself. If she is one of them, great. If not, well, that's OK too. Note that I am not indifferent of the outcome, but accepting of the possibilities. I would give anything to have my wife back, but I know that there is nothing certain on this path we currently travel.
My son will still have 2 loving parents, regardless of this outcome, and likewise, I will be happy regardless, as long as we can accomplish that.
Me: 30, W: 29 S: 4 T: 14 M: 5 BD: March, 2015, ILYBNILWY, IDLY, Need Space OM, EA/PA Discovered (drunken kissing, she says she stopped there? NOPE!): March 2015 S: April 25th, 2015
