Newbie seeking some experienced advice

[nick77]

Thank you 25yearsmlc and MrBond. I'm sorry about the huge posts. I'm new to this and trying to squeeze in everything I can without really thinking things through.
I have DB and am reading it now and hope to get DR and whatever else is suggested soon.
Thank you also MrBond for giving me hope with your success. And congratulations! Some days I just feel like not getting out of bed right now.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi Cadet. I've been reading all of the links you provided and they're great. The problem is I'm pretty much guilty of doing all of the things these links say not to do. When we separated at 1st I was angry and wasn't very nice. Then I started with the desperation and pleading, crying, reminiscing about the good times. I already blew that right? So now what?


Start over, that's what. Move "From this day forward" like the marriage vows tell us to. And stop thinking about a one night stand she had, which she confessed and expressed remorse for. It's not an "affair" or something that is pulling her away from you anymore than a dozen other factors which ought to be your focus.

And I mean it in my signature when I say "forgiveness is OUR way out of hell." I would drop that and never bring it up again. No throwing it in her face or holding it over her head.

Hopefully she will feel the forgiveness from you AND then want to extend it to you.

Forgiveness is a two way street but we often must model it for our spouses by giving it to them. For many of us, forgiveness is a learned skill. (I know I sure never saw it growing up).

Make sense?

I have begun to GAL. I immediately started going back to the gym and finding things to do to try and occupy my free time so I'm not laying in bed depressed.

GOOD^^^. Keep it up but GAL that involves doing things with OTHERS so you can make new friends.

Take a class, (a foreign language? A musical instrument?)

Go back to college? Study cooking? Wine tasting?

Anything at all that has interested you in the past. Even just one night a week would be good and not take too much time away from your son.

JOIN something like a club or team,

or VOLUNTEER somewhere. There are so many ways to meet new people and GAL, the list is endless.

Do not get stuck b/c I sense inertia on your end about too many things. Like the excuses for not doing more GAL are just that; i.e. excuses.

Push yourself and you will feel better and it is simply more attractive/attracting to be with someone who is interested in the world. They become more interestING.

And become the best father you can become. No woman is unmoved by the loving interaction between her child and its' father. For many of us it is a turn on.

For some, just being a good father is enough to stay married. Maybe not with your wife but it would help for sure.


I don't have many friends left in my area that I can go out with. The ones still around don't go out as they're married and with children. I don't really like to drink anymore and don't want to be the creepy late 30's guy hanging at the bar alone.

Make new friends. See above^^.


As for detaching. That's the hardest part. We have a child and communicate daily about him and who's getting him from school or when I'm coming to get him, etc. And it's just hard. I miss my wife. Besides, one of the biggest complaints she had against me was that I basically ignored her. Won't she view my detaching as more of what I've already been doing?


That is a legit question and presents a dilemma for us DBers. I get that. I also think you both sorely lack in conflict resolution skills b/c your fights continue to escalate and neither seems to learn how to prevent that.

It's a learned skill. Plus you must show her that you will NOT fight "dirty" by throwing low blows for instance. (NEVER ever bring up the one night stand if you want to take the high road AND have a chance at staying married. That must be seen as off limits by you, forever. Understood?)


I'd suggest you both attend Retrovaille which is a marriage retreat for marriages in crisis. It's well done and you will meet the "team couples" who have had their ups and downs and yet stayed together. Their stories will make you both feel blessed as their hardships will amaze you. At ours, one couple had lost a child AND the h had an affair resulting in a pregnancy, so you'll feel inspired.

And if you can, hire a DB coach b/c they are excellent. But at some point, preferably sooner, you'll both learn better communication skills and HOW "not" to fight.

I mean, I don't see you working out as a couple without some conflict resolution.
So for sure, check out Retrovaille in your area as soon as you can.

2 things our priest said when he married us, which were useful, was 1) "the amount of conflict a couple faces is not relevant, b/c life throws more at some of us. What matters is HOW we resolve conflict;

and 2) deception isn't helpful or good in a marriage - but neither is causing it; meaning, if you tend to over react when your spouse admits an error, you only encourage them to hide their mistakes in the future.

(Think of a fender bender that you go nuts about, so the next time your wife or son dents a car, you won't learn of it til the insurance rates go. You share in the responsibility there).

Make sense?

Also for now, do MORE with your son than before. It'll be a way to stay a bit detached and GAL, while also not "ignoring" your wife and you'll be closer to your son too.

When your w reaches out to you in any way, respond in a supportive Upbeat manner.
Make eye contact with her when she speaks and validate her feelings even if you don't agree with them or "like' them.

Let her feel as she does.

And the wayward wife bit. She fits that exactly. As stated she slept with someone shortly after I moved out. She seems remorseful and tore up about it but I don't know if I should believe her or not. I even apologized to her for pushing her to do it.

I would bet she felt pushed. Now, say no more. She made a mistake and she owned it. Don't push for more. Good grief, what do you need from her now? You agree that you played a significant role in your marital problems and the "OM" did NOT cause the separation.

Most of the time, shame eventually converts into resentment and blame. The more you push her to feel worse about something she already admitted and regrets, the more likely you will push her AWAY for good. Drop it.

How pathetic is that? I sincerely felt terrible after the initial anger subsided. I'm sure my apology was a major mistake too.

No it wasn't. Not in my opinion.

Your focus on the one night stand is a mistake, especially since you two have repeatedly separated and you fight badly, and got married in such a delayed manner, - those facts all show there were problems at a very basic level.

You both need to do some work but from the sounds of it, she has been more than pulling her own weight for some time. That is where RETROVAILLE comes in.


And make no mistake, your delay in proposing til your son turned 4,(??!!) at some level, would bother 90% of the women I know, if not more.

It's not "flattering" to know that you were not head over heels for sure in love with her, from the get go. Add to that, the way you worked and did little else...

I mean, I read your explanation of the marriage timing, and it sounds so "practical" and logistically based, I wasn't moved at all.

I guess the word would be "underwhelmed" by your love & commitment. So, if that's not the case and you really are wanting THIS marriage to work,

then by God, work on the marriage.


But still GAL B/c it makes you a more interesting partner who isn't just going to work and home, day in, day out...that is no way to live. You want to be bringing something to the table as a man, right?

Temporarily I understand the work work work approach with a goal in mind which you BOTH agreed to. I am a lawyer and my h is an MD. We married in college. So we have had a lot of "Delayed gratification" in our marriage. Years of it.

When it's temporary- it is usually manageable.

What gets terrifying and very depressing, is when we fear/realize "THIS is it"???

What do you think?

[Cadet]

Hi Cadet. I've been reading all of the links you provided and they're great.
The problem is I'm pretty much guilty of doing all of the things these links say not to do.
When we separated at 1st I was angry and wasn't very nice.
Then I started with the desperation and pleading, crying, reminiscing about the good times.
I already blew that right?
So now what?

That is why it is called a 180!

It is not too late.

25mlc has given you good advice.

DB'ing is not a magic FIX or an easy button to press and
all will be OK.
It is a lot of hard work.
It is never too late to start

My suggestion is get a beginners mind (DB101) and start from there.

[nick77]

Thank you both for the advice and replies but I think it's certainly done now.
My son told me a week or so ago he had thoughts of hurting himself and I tried to deal with it by myself as I didn't want to alarm W. She's already going through a lot. I told her yesterday and asked that she talk to him and she said she would talk to him last night. She went to dinner with friends and after about 9pm I contacted her to see when she'd be home and she told me to just drop our son at her parents if I needed to because she wouldn't be home for awhile.
I lost it. I went off the deep end and said some things about her priorities I know I shouldn't have said. Long story short she told me to file for divorce cuz she's done and then today told me if I don't she is going to. I wish I would've taken a deep breath and stepped back for a moment but I couldn't believe she wasn't that concerned about what I told her.

[sandi2]

OMG, tell her what the child said. The two of you need to get him help immediately.

[nick77]

Hi sandi, I did tell her yesterday and that's what led to our fight. I told her in the afternoon because I couldn't keep to myself any longer and she said she was going to talk to him last night. Instead she went to dinner with friends. I reached out to her at 9pm to see when she wanted me to drop him off and she told me that she wasn't going to be home for awhile and if I needed to I should drop him off at her parents. I was furious and called her every type of bad mother I could think of.
We talked today and we're going to make an appointment for him to talk to someone.

[25yearsmlc]

Do her parents know about their grandson's behavior?

Let others talk to her about him IF she is not "available" when you speak to her. Maybe she cannot 'hear you" now but perhaps she could hear someone else.

This is not about being right; it's about doing what works and for now your son must be THE priority.

Don't worry about the divorce as much as HIM (and don't assume staying together with an unworkable relationship and no conflict resolution skills would "fix" it all).

In other words, your wife has to feel she can reach out to her son without necessarily tying it to the marriage, okay?

Work on him AND you and leave the rest. Turn your marriage over to God and help your son.

As for being hopeless about the marriage, I told my sisters in 2006 I was getting divorced, only seeing "maybe a 10% chance of staying married." IT's not over til it's really over and she remarries and has another kid....and even then, maybe.

Don't worry about what SHE SAYS, and only worry about half of what she DOES.

Keep on keeping on.

[nick77]

Thank you 25yearsmlc. You're right... I'm trying to forget about what happens between us and only worry about my son's well being. That on top of everything else is seriously driving me insane. I think I've lost 15lbs since he told me and haven't slept more than 2 or 3 hours a night. It's killing me that he felt that way and I'm the cause of it. I can't forgive myself for that and all of the other mistakes I've made and keep on making.
I am going back to church tomorrow and throwing myself at God's mercy. I can't make it with my baby feeling this way. I see know other way of making it through any of this. I haven't been to church in a long time and I can't wait to get there.

[HopefulStill]

Nick,
I would suggest that in addition to going back to church, that you do some reading. First- there are many books and articles on how to be a supportive, present, father. No matter what happens between you and your W, that little guy needs to feel that you love him unconditionally, and he needs to feel safe and validated. Second- you need to read about how to make a successful M relationship, because I feel that you really don't know what that would even look like. My recommendation on a book to start with is "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders". You and your wife had a "renters" mentality in your R, which sets you up for a bad marriage. That's why I think this separation will be good for both of you. I think that you need to understand where you were, and what a good M is, before you can invite your W back into a loving relationship with you.

Quiet down and listen. Stop waiting to talk, you put your foot in your mouth when you do. Listen, listen, validate, listen some more. You think that you know your wife, but the truth is that you don't. She will tell you if you listen. BTW, if your wife complains to you, rejoice! It means that she sees hope (though it may not seem that way to you!). If you bully your wife with your words, she will retreat from you and stop any complaining and keep her interactions with you to a minimum. If you stop that behavior and start to listen and validate, she will slowly poke her head back out and complain. Do not defend yourself! Just listen and validate ("yes, I can see how much that must have hurt you" etc.).

If you stop making mistakes I think you have a VERY good chance of getting your wife back. Make sure to follow my advice on reading, though, or she will come back to a bad marriage and the next time she may leave for good.
-HS

[HopefulStill]

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