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Hi Toots,

I hear what you're saying. W spoke with disgust of OM last night, how he was nothing and didn't mean anything, it was just sex, she led him on...and it would appear to be over. She spoke in past tense a lot. That could all be lies of course but from her body language I tend to believe her.

W just called again so D5 could say hello/good morning. Again, very pleasant on the phone. If I were to assume it is over with OM, then is it time to be nice without being overbearing etc? I'm going to give her space, not hound her etc, no more R talk, but work on getting on with her, having her trust me there's no hidden agenda (one of her main reoccurring thoughts).

Of course my kids will be a main priority in everything I do.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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alpha99 Offline OP
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Just to add, whilst out I kept conversation to a minimum (in cinema majority of time so couldnt speak anyway). Did initiate once or twice in low key way (weather etc). On route to McDs W asked how my parents were. At Mcds drive thru we shared a laugh over her dad getting the drive thru wrong last week. Positive signs she's calming down at least...W still has a lot of anger aimed at me though at times whenever R comes up. I feel a bit better this morning but this is hard, hard, hard.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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"W still has a lot of anger aimed at me though at times whenever R comes up"

I think it's really really important to stick to the "No R TAlks!" rule as the Vets say above. It's a cheeseless tunnel right now.

I wouldn't set too much store by what she's saying about the A either...

You say it's too little too late above. Well, who knows in terms of your M - time will tell my friend. But in termss of you, your future life, your kids and possible future relationships....there's plenty of life to be lived yet!

Keep going Alpha, you're doing great. Keep heeding the advice and practicing emotional control in more difficult situations...


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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alpha99 Offline OP
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Hi everyone,

I'm well aware I shouldn't be talking about R right now with W. Avoiding that topic completely is going to be the best way to do that because as soon we get near R talk I do start to fall apart slightly. I suppose I should be thinking of the positives instead:

W is speaking to me and wants to be friendly (BUT THAT'S IT!)

W is open to letting me have the children more and more.

We have been out together twice since last Friday, with this Friday also in the pipeline (I know this is more of a supervisory situation than family time).

W realises I want to be there for our children as much as possible.

I believe A is over. Certainly as far as I know W is not engaging in a free and open relationship with anyone/anyone else. As long as this that is the case then there is always hope.

I can't remember everything that was said last night but I'm sure at one point W mentioned about if things got better I could stay over on the couch for special occasions wit kids. I'm not certain if that is exactly what she meant, that's what I took from it though. The conversation moved on and I didn't ask. It was either that or she was talking about the kids staying over night with me. I think it was the former rather than latter she meant though.

It is SO HARD not to contact W unnecessarily. After dealings with her I feel a short lived boost followed by a massive low that the interaction doesn't last.

There is a story in the Expect the Impossible section of DR that seems like my sitch: W said I hate you, don't love you etc...H spent more family time with no pressure or R talks, and over time things started to get better. That is the blueprint I think I am going to have to follow now.

W pointed out clearly how I was controlling her, restricting her, putting her down and generally making her feel like crap. I wonder how to navigate this. Would LRT work? I know I need to give her space and not pursue but when we are together should I be working on doing 180s on all the behaviour traits she doesn't like, be bright and breezy, upbeat etc, or do something else. I think it is time for another coaching session.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Originally Posted By: Toots
Hi Alpha

I don't think you want to be her 'friend' whilst she is having an A. You are her H and she has betrayed you and her vows to you by getting involved with someone else. Of course, this doesn't mean being unpleasant to her. That's not going to help you right now.

I think the kids and you are your priority now. And you need to grasp the difference between being her 'friend' (where you can risk appearing to condone the A) and interacting with her in a brief, pleasant and upbeat way - much like a neighbour.

I think the main thing is to work on your own stability and reliability, so she is more comfortable with you spending time with the kids



BINGO.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
Hi Toots,

I hear what you're saying. W spoke with disgust of OM last night, how he was nothing and didn't mean anything, it was just sex, she led him on...and it would appear to be over. She spoke in past tense a lot. That could all be lies of course but from her body language I tend to believe her.




Types of Convos

Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:

1) NEGATIVE ones. Blame-making, re-writing marital history, angry outbursts, fight-picking, etc. 'nuff said.

2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.

3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.

4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.

5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?

Puppy





M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Complex

It feels so hard but just let HER talk, validate (you don't have to agree). You know what the only true way is into a women's heart? I talked to my DB coach with this.
It's TRULY listening and understanding her. This is a lot to ask for most men. But once you can truly detach from your own thoughts, you will be able to purely focus on what she has to say. Women are sensitive creatures.
What I want to say is that you should just focus on what she has to say, don't get INVOLVED in the R talk. Stand for what you believe in, be consistent, listen...then get away from the discussion with integrity.


Complex, I agree with ALL of this ^^^^, and it is to be sure the PREFERABLE way to handle the interactions. Validation is a powerful tool, and one that especially us men need to work on. However, if one cannot yet control their emotional reactivity to conversations with a wayward spouse, I would advise them to avoid the convos altogether. It's better not to have validated, in my opinion, than to have been drawn into yet-another R talk and then handle it poorly. Until Alpha can get his DBing sea legs under him more consistently, I'd rather see him avoid these convos with his wife altogether, by saying "We'll talk about this later," and ending it, and perhaps even considering using a trusted third party for all child exchanges.


Starsky

Last edited by Starsky309; 03/25/15 01:19 PM.

M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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alpha99 Offline OP
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I am going to read these latest responses again and again. I know they are excellent advice. I guess, against my own initial perception, that I am STILL in shock mode. Only 4 months ago we had a nice family holiday. My life has been turned upside down, gobbled up and spewed out. I'm trying hard not to be a victim now. What seems like set in stone will change...at least my R and interaction with kids. I need to APPLY what I understand in theory. Validation is key. I am doing elements of it but getting thrown off piste by W and my emotions.

Whilst speaking to W last night I had DB thoughts running through my head. At times I listened and changed course, at other times I ploughed on into the void. Discipline is key. No good validating for 5 minutes to then start reasoning or blaming. That is so hard to do...but if I want a fighting chance to get my W and family back that's what I need to do.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
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Offline
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You've got it. I've always said that DBing is NOT complicated, but it DOES take a tremendous amount of self-discipline. THAT (and our own, sometimes-painful introspection) is the "hard" part of the "this is really hard." There's nothing really complicated in the concepts themselves.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Good for you Alpha. You're right about discipline. It is an important element. It's also useful to ask yourself whether what you are about to say or do will get you closer or further away from your end goal.

Normally when we give into our emotions and so something daft (been there :-)) it takes us further from our goal. And that's where the discipline and self control come in. We override our impulses and respond to things in a measured way.

I think you're probably right about the shock too. It takes a while to come to terms with what has happened. But, like so many of us - you're moving forwards my friend...


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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