Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
The jig is up at home, so I had to change things up a bit. I used to be Rzr.

Old thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2549234#Post2549234


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
For anyone who asks, FIDO stands for Forget It and Drive On, one of my favorite mottoes. Concentrate on the things you can change, don't worry about the things you can't, and keep moving forward regardless. Something I've had to re-learn in my current sitch.

Changing the rules means that I'm taking charge and changing the dynamic of my R.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Today was MC day. Felt pretty productive. MC is moving on from the A to more core issues like forgiveness. Me forgiving her for the A, and her forgiving my parents (and by extension, me) for what they did. She was open and receptive to what the therapist told her about forgiveness which was, by the way, pretty close to what I had been telling her for six months. I know that it's going to mean more coming from neutral 3rd parties right now. Hopeful signs, so we'll see.

I didn't mention S today; I should have but I just didn't get it in. I'll mention it next week.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
for continuity - credit to U-turn

Hey NH
I know my D15 is has issues with how W & I are acting and we are usually very quiet and only talk when they are securely away, but the kids might hear and know more than I think. It is understandable that they are scared. I think that mine has no idea what's coming, S17 might guess it and S20 has asked me to divorce her. The only thing that I have told them on my own is that I am sorry for how this affects them. They want us to be happy - and I think they understand if that means apart (as sad as that sounds) They are used to this with their friends divorced parents.

I think that sometimes teenage girls feel that if you hate someone, you leave them. she sees you not leaving your W, she sees you staying and trying.

Keep it up. I really wish you the best


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
Sounds like things are going your way. Keep up the good work and hang in there! smile


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Thanks Dawn....things seem better...we shall see.

I'm just happy someone noticed my new thread. Hopefully I can be on this userid for a while.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Journaling to keep my new thread up under my new ID. Nothing really new. OM is in town today. W didn't mention it, neither did I. He's just another guest, at least that's the way I'm treating it. Her dress this morning was a little shorter than normal, but oh well. Detach, detach, detach


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
GAL update

Race is on Sunday. Running a 4-man marathon relay with three guys I've known for well over 30 years. None of them know about my sitch. W will be with me for dinner the night before and will be at the race so I doubt I will say anything. I ran 8 miles @ 8:30 pace on Sunday. My leg of the relay will be only 6 miles so I know I'm good to go.

It's supposed to be a pretty weekend so hopefully I can get some more flying with students done this week. Ds don't have their respective athletics this week so I'm not on the hook to drive them anywhere.

I'm taking a vacation day on Friday to fly with a couple of students, then sit at a café somewhere with my laptop to just work and reflect. I'm still working on getting my flight instructing business on a more formal footing. I want to expand into online ground instruction and coaching so I need to get my website and blog spooled up. Just trying to find things to work on. I'm not even telling W that I'm taking a day, I just want to be left alone for a few hours, which would never happen if she knew I wasn't at work.

Home is stable. I know that W is at work right now probably swooning over OM, but I'm just not that concerned about it. I'm more worried about the aftermath when he leaves and I get treated to yet another emotional crash and spew session. The MC session went well this week and I feel like she's trying, but his little visits don't help. I know she's trying, but my patience is getting thin.

No further discussion of S. I'm waiting until after her surgery, which is not scheduled yet. I'd be at the house a good portion of the time helping during recovery anyway. It'll take me a few weeks to get finances organized and find a place at any rate.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,098
Z
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,098
Morning. I'm sending you positive thoughts! Hope today is a good day for you...Friday sounds like it will be awesome. Good luck!


M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
I had an epiphany the other day. Sorry if anyone's eyes glaze over, but I'm an aviation geek. It's how I roll.

When W and I talk, I convey that while I have hopes for our M, I'm ready to handle whatever happens. I'm on fire to continue to improve myself and my life and keep things moving forward, no matter what. I don't feel depressed right now. I'm focused on the things that I can directly control, namely me. She's depressed enough that she finds it hard getting out of bed sometimes...she doesn't understand and is angry that I don't seem as devastated as she does. She takes that as saying I don't care about our M, which is far from the truth. I was struggling to come up with a way to illustrate how I feel.

It hit me the other day after flying with a student. We had been up practicing what to do if the engine quits in cruise flight. I asked him, "what's your first order of business in an emergency?". "Pitch for best glide speed?", he said. I answered "No". "Switch fuel tanks?". "No".

I finally said, "The first order of business in any emergency is to fly the airplane." You can follow all the checklist procedures perfectly, but if you lose control of the aircraft, it won't matter. If you keep control of the airplane all the way to the ground, then your chances of survival go up dramatically.

After that it hit me that this was a good metaphor for how I'm trying to handle my sitch. Our M has thrown a rod; there's nothing I can do directly to fix it in-flight (magic words or appeals to reason to "snap her out of it"). I can follow the emergency procedures (DR/DB), but that's secondary. Ultimately I have to keep control of the "airplane" (my life), through GAL, self-improvement, and moving forward, so I can survive the inevitable end state of my sitch. I have hope that the end will be reconciliation, but hoping won't make it happen. This thing may end with my M battered beyond repair, with D the only option, or it may end with a reconciliation. Either way, if I keep control of what I can control, namely my own life and own journey, I'll survive.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,807
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,807
Love this metaphor!!!


Was made a better person by DB'ers
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Thanks HeavyD. I've found more than a few metaphors for life while flying :-)


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Well, OM came and went this week without any major issues. She had a minor crash yesterday evening but it wasn't a bad one. I listened, validated, stayed positive, yada yada yada. That's getting so much easier now.

We went to work out and then went to our favorite chain restaurant for late night appetizers and our MC homework. The C had given us a list of open ended questions for each one of us to answer..things like "In my family the most important thing was...." We ended up having a great talk that night; she even learned something about me she didn't know! Most of the questions were about our families growing up. Our families were very different. That's not a bad thing per se, but my family could be very intrusive, and that's been a major source of stress on our M.

I feel more healthily detached from her. We both talked (and agreed) that we needed to see each other as individuals on our own journeys (very true) and we needed to give each other the freedom to go on those journeys (within the bounds of M). I told her that if she needed a different life to be happy, that I was OK with that. And I really am. I'm only interested in an authentic R with her, whatever form that R takes. The last few months have destroyed my ability to put up with relationships that are merely "comfortable". She still wonders whether this M has run its course, and we're both meant to move on. It didn't really bother me when she said it. I'm asking the same questions. It bothers me a bit that I can actually see her as just a friend. We've never been "just friends".

I'm heartened by her more positive outlook...I even see her "poor me" attitude fading, at least for the time being. It changes daily, of course. She's still very open about her loneliness and disconnect with me, but she seem stronger. She's not doing the depressive crash and spew right now. I'll take that as a win.

Her surgery is scheduled for 4/7; she'll be off work for 2 weeks at least during the recovery period. Not sure what that's going to do for her state of mind...work and exercise are her two main stress releases, and she won't be able to do either one for a while. April may be a long month. S is still on the table; but if it happens it'll be after she recovers and gets back to work.

On balance I'd say we're in a good place. I'm still bothered by her apparent lack of remorse. She says she regrets what happened and she talk about how "lost" she was, but she never seems very "sorry" for the pain she caused. I think she's still doing too much justification because of the pain that I caused her. I fully own my failures in our relationship, but it still seems to be too much about my mistakes and not enough about hers. In the grand scheme of things her A was pretty mild and she's done a good job of staying within boundaries. OM even attempted to flirt with her when he was in town this last time and she shut him down.

Am I putting too much emphasis on her remorse? I don't expect her to cry at my feet and beg forgiveness, but she still seems too focused on my role. Is this something i should be concerned about or am I doing too much scorekeeping?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Although a FWW saying the WORDS "I'm sorry" are important (although for some betrayed husbands, it's a dealbreaker and I respect that) . . . I think an overall ATTITUDE of remorse is imperative.

I don't think I've ever seen a successful reconciliation where the formerly cheating spouse didn't convey that attitude, and where they didn't do the lion's share of the heavy relationship repair in the early "piecing" stage (at least after the "hard withdrawal" period of the first couple of weeks passes).


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Yeah, that's the part that still bothers me. Overall, I'd say that she's trying. She's focused on our relationship, she's participating actively in MC, she does characterize the A as a mistake and says that she was foolish. She does apologize, but I just don't feel it. Maybe she's still working through all her resentment of me and she's still holding on to some justification. Maybe I'm just thinking that because I don't feel the remorse from her, that she's not feeling it. Obviously I can't ask for remorse. It'll either shake out in this whole process or it won't.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115
Obviously I can't ask for remorse.


No, but you can tell yourself that you need it, and that it's reasonable to expect it by some certain point. Fight like hell for your marriage, but don't lose yourself in the process. And keep calling her on her bullch*t when he plays it.

At some point, she will either come around or you will lose your will to continue at this.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Originally Posted By: Starsky309


At some point, she will either come around or you will lose your will to continue at this.

Starsky


Spot on. And which will come first is a very open question right now. Her BS ratio is better than it used to be. We'll see if that continues.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115


Spot on. And which will come first is a very open question right now.



And I think that's healthy.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
I am so glad you gave directions to find you! I have been concerned about you. I will catch up on your thread, just wanted to reach out and give ya a hug.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Hugs back at ya, Sandi!

I was getting nervous about getting the word out so my DB tribe could find me. Hopefully I can stay on this one for a while before D15 finds out. smile


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
NH,

Originally Posted By: NH115


On balance I'd say we're in a good place. I'm still bothered by her apparent lack of remorse. She says she regrets what happened and she talk about how "lost" she was, but she never seems very "sorry" for the pain she caused. I think she's still doing too much justification because of the pain that I caused her. I fully own my failures in our relationship, but it still seems to be too much about my mistakes and not enough about hers. In the grand scheme of things her A was pretty mild and she's done a good job of staying within boundaries. OM even attempted to flirt with her when he was in town this last time and she shut him down.


You know this...how? That's a good sign. It seems to me that this process will zig zag for a while and it will not always be a linear process for your W.

Dig deep for patience, my friend.

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
I dig deep every day, Wonka

Glad you found me.


Don't roll your eyes too hard, but I know because she told me. She's been so insanely forthcoming about her feelings during this thing, good bad and ugly, that I doubt she's going to make up something to tell me that's so inconsequential. She didn't have to say a thing.

Last edited by NH115; 03/27/15 08:06 PM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115
I dig deep every day, Wonka




And this is why so many of us are rooting for you, NH -- and admire the hell out of you.

Truly (and I know I haven't always agreed with your strategy, and that's okay) I do respect your principled fight for your marriage and your family.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
NH,

Originally Posted By: NH115

Don't roll your eyes too hard, but I know because she told me. She's been so insanely forthcoming about her feelings during this thing, good bad and ugly, that I doubt she's going to make up something to tell me that's so inconsequential. She didn't have to say a thing.


^^^ it's a good thing actually because she's starting to open up a bit more to you. That's the path toward healing. It seems that your MC counselor is giving you two some really good homework assignments. Keep it up.

I also think you are ready for this book:

Intellectual Foreplay: Questions for Lovers & Lovers-To-Be

by Eve Eschner Hogan with Steven Hogan

I would suggest that you read the book alone. Do this exercise for yourself. Then you might want to select a question or two from the book to ask W during one of your date nights or whatever you two do alone as a couple. This book is perfect for those who are in piecing or in the beginning stages of reconciliation--especially for LBS.

This book really opened my eyes and made me think about my FOO issues, my overall outlook on what I truly want in an intimate partnership, and how I can be more mindful of my shortcomings.

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Thanks Starsky, that means a lot coming from you.

I don't think I'm overstating things when I say that you, Sandi, and Wonka (and a few others) have kept me focused and sane. I don't want to think about where I'd be right now if I hadn't found this forum. I've approached this with too much fear, but the fear is draining away, and I'm getting where I need to be finally.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Thanks, I'll look for that book.

I see improvement in fits and starts, even if she doesn't always see it.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
I don't know if it will be helpful, but in the last post I have on my thread, as of now, I shared some of my own struggles I had with remorse.

I was much like you have described your own W. I don't think I actually said it, but had the attitude of "It happened, so move on". I read posts from LBH's expressing how important the WW's apology was to the H. In fact, I think the first encounter I had with "Puppy" was over the WW's apology, when I made some sarcastic statement about the LBH not holding his breath waiting for it. You can imagine Pup's reaction. blush

I am not patting myself on the back, by any stretch of the imagination, when I say I reached the point of praying to feel remorseful. That is how bad it was for me. Not trying to push anything down anyone's throat about it, either. I had a Christian background/foundation, so I knew it was needed for me, but at the time, I just did not feel any remorse for my actions. Probably due to the other bad stuff in my heart at the time.

I sincerely can't remember the number of months it took before I finally went to my H, crying so hard he could barely understand what I was saying. Oh! Did I feel remorseful! Then I thought I would die from it, and had to pray that God would ease up a little. No, just kidding a little about God letting up.

I will admit that it has been much harder to forgive myself. I had made progress, but I've learned that sometimes something happens and it triggers the guilt and/or shame. When my mother passed away three months ago, it triggered those feelings of deep regret and sorrow for my wayward behavior. Once again, the people on this board came and put their arms around me, and talked me through it.

Btw, I don't hang around this place out of feelings of guilt. It is b/c somewhere along the way, I hope to help those, like you, who have been so hurt by a WW like me.

((NH)). Don't give up on her. I can so relate with your W. I don't usually tell newcomers this, but maybe I should. It was probably about two years, as best I can remember, for me to accomplish what I call, "the hard work", which was getting through the withdrawals; taking complete responsibility for my actions; being truely remorseful; really forgiving my H for everything; letting go of the past; finding peace to live with myself; and finally being able to get our MR back on track. So even if you have to S, don't give up on her just yet.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Sandi, you're doing God's work. I did read your last post and it resonated with me. If it were possible, I'd get you and W together to share a bottle of Pinot smile

My W's rhetoric is some facile remorse, she's "sorry", but then she usually ends it with "but nobody knows what I've been through. I know well that she's got a lot of junk to work through before she feels true remorse. I know she's got a low opinion of herself, but it's not specifically for her actions.

Our new focus in MC is forgiveness. I think that's going to be very helpful.

And on an unrelated note, D10 is now D11! Happy birthday to my sweet pea.

Last edited by NH115; 03/27/15 10:35 PM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Journaling a bit...

The race went great on Sunday. My leg was 6 miles and I did it at an 8:30 pace. Not bad for a broken-down fortysomething grin

I still think W is trying. She still gets panicky. I screwed up during an R talk on Saturday; it was otherwise productive until I lost my head and made a dig at OM. We weren't specifically talking about OM, but I slipped and made what I considered a minor dig. I didn't call him predator, douchebag, or bullet trap, as I have in the past. Instead I made fun of his goatee. It was childish and I felt bad, but she went apesh*t. We got things back on track but I dropped the ball there. I know better than to talk about him and I never initiate talk about him, because I know how rapidly I spiral.

Yesterday was good. We had an epiphany in MC; we were talking about family upbringing and it came up that my family conditioned me to be polite and hers conditioned her to be loyal. My conditioning interfered with my ability to protect her against my toxic parents. She felt I was disloyal (rightfully so) when I thought I was just trying to keep peace.

My Dad sent me an email telling me they were coming up to Arkansas in a couple of weeks. I haven't communicated much with them since before Christmas. I had no intention of seeing them; so I had just ignored the email for several days. The therapist advised me to go ahead and answer them as a way of showing my W that I was no longer an avoider and that I was willing to confront them when necessary. My homework was to answer them within 24 hours. Didn't need that much time. As soon as I got back to my desk I answered back with a terse "I'm not available that week". My dad, apparently not getting the message, asked me when I was available. My answer:

How about not for the foreseeable future?

I've apparently been unclear. My marriage is hanging by a thread and hold both of you partially responsible.

When I get my marriage and my life out of the weeds I'll consider meeting with you. No discussion, no debate. Back off.


W was grateful that I had done that. She knows how hard it would have been for me to be that honest with them a couple of years ago. Hopefully it was a step in rebuilding her trust in me. Sounds funny that I'm worried about her trusting me, but the reality is that I did things to damage that trust long before OM showed up. That's part of cleaning up my side of the MR.

To end the night I led a family meeting about W's upcoming surgery and what needs to happen during her recovery, vis a vis my spoiled Ds need to not whine about going places and spending money, and need to pull their weight around the house. smile They're really pretty good about it, but they need to understand that W will not be able to drive them places a the drop of a hat for a while. I know W is starting to feel anxiety about her surgery and the recovery. Apparently there will be some significant pain involved, and it will temporarily take away her two biggest stress relievers...work and exercise. She'll have a lot of time to sit and think and that tends to be dangerous for her. That's usually when she panics.

I felt like we were a team, for the first time in a while. I think she did too. Maybe a piece or two of the wall came down. Who knows?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
Prayers for your W for her upcoming surgery. I am really proud of how you are handling everything. You seem to really be working hard and trying to do what is right for yourself, your W and your Ds. I am inspired and I am rooting for you, my fellow Arkie! smile


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
NH,

I wish W to have a successful surgery and a speedy recovery from it.

You did well with the family meeting and asking your parents for space. Nicely done.

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Thanks Dawn and Wonka!

I felt like Monday was a win. Hopefully that momentum will keep going.

Fortunately W's surgery is outpatient, but her recovery time will be fairly long. I think she's just ready to get it over with.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Had an interesting R talk yesterday...she was actually complimentary for a change...said she liked my stable, better mood. She characterized the way I handled my parents in this last email exchange as "beautiful", and called my willingness to take the lead in the family as "attractive" and "sexy".

It was just words, but she's not good at blowing sunshine if she doesn't feel it. Improvement? Maybe cool


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Beautiful!! The MIL was a major factor in our M problems. No, let me correct that statement. It was my H's inability or refusal to take a stand in supporting me whenever she threw me under the bus. There was this one time, however, that she thought he would actually choose her over his W (long story), and when she placed him in that situation, he told her he supported his W. She about fainted. She immediately left our house, and as soon as the shock wore off.....I proceeded in seducing him! wink


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Beautiful!! The MIL was a major factor in our M problems. No, let me correct that statement. It was my H's inability or refusal to take a stand in supporting me whenever she threw me under the bus. There was this one time, however, that she thought he would actually choose her over his W (long story), and when she placed him in that situation, he told her he supported his W. She about fainted. She immediately left our house, and as soon as the shock wore off.....I proceeded in seducing him! wink




whistle


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
Originally Posted By: NH115
Had an interesting R talk yesterday...she was actually complimentary for a change...said she liked my stable, better mood. She characterized the way I handled my parents in this last email exchange as "beautiful", and called my willingness to take the lead in the family as "attractive" and "sexy".

It was just words, but she's not good at blowing sunshine if she doesn't feel it. Improvement? Maybe cool


What?! You cannot accept a genuine compliment from your W, NH?! Especially when it's been the main source of friction between the two of you and you finally stood up to your parents. It's a HUGE thing for you and your M.

Keep going....

Sandi, wow...you are some lil' seducer under that straight-laced shirt! blush

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Oh, I took the compliment! I always have that grain of doubt in the back of my head, but it was a positive thing for sure. I'll call yesterday a win.

I guess I'm still wary, because 5 minutes before she said those things, she was still saying she still wasn't sure "where she belonged". She wasn't referring to OM; he's becoming less of a factor everyday, but just where she belonged in general. I loved her compliment but was still a little confused.

Last edited by NH115; 04/02/15 06:43 PM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Beautiful!! The MIL was a major factor in our M problems. No, let me correct that statement. It was my H's inability or refusal to take a stand in supporting me whenever she threw me under the bus. There was this one time, however, that she thought he would actually choose her over his W (long story), and when she placed him in that situation, he told her he supported his W. She about fainted. She immediately left our house, and as soon as the shock wore off.....I proceeded in seducing him! wink



Check again, Sandi...are you sure you're not a redhead from Oklahoma? grin My primary failure as a husband was my inability to stand up to my parents. She lost her attraction to me because she wanted to feel like her man could protect her (she actually said that almost verbatim last night)...a quality I didn't exactly demonstrate very well when it came to them. When they pulled the bathtub incident (I talked about that in detail many threads ago), my inability to present an ultimatum to them...stop the intrusion and bullying or forget about a relationship with us...was the final nail in the coffin to her attraction to me. It's a great example of the damage a "nice guy" mentality can do to someone. I was classic nice guy in that regard.

I have very little relationship with my parents because I think they're bat**** crazy. They told me they were coming to our state in a couple of weeks and tried to arrange for us to come and visit. I told them not just no but hell no and BCC'd my wife. She loved my response

She didn't try to seduce me last night, unfortunately, but all good things in time

Last edited by NH115; 04/02/15 06:56 PM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Sandi, you and my W sound so similar. How did you work past the resentment over your H's weakness with MIL, and how did you regain that attraction for him?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Wow, time flies. I realized I hadn't posted in a while.

W came out of surgery just fine today, she's got a couple of weeks of recovery, but she should be fine.

The last couple of weeks have been a real shift in attitude for me...I'm really struggling to stay motivated to keep this marriage going. I'm not angry, about the A or anything else, I'm just finding myself becoming more and more detached....not sure where to go from here.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
So glad to hear that everything went smoothly with surgery.

As for where you go from here? I wouldn't worry about it. I think you're exactly where you are supposed to be, at the moment you're supposed to be there.

It's not surprising to me at all that you're "here," emotionally. Your W has made A LOT of hefty withdrawals from your Love Bank. And she hasn't made many deposits to replenish. You are now the one who is almost in the red (the same place she was when she made such a selfish choice to betray you).

I, for one, think it's far past time that your W does some of the heavy-lifting where the M is concerned, if it's going to be salvaged. If the M is going to work, in many cases the wayward spouses (formerly or otherwise, especially if they've never felt a credible threat of losing the LBSs) aren't motivated to do much heavy-lifting until or unless they've felt the LBS begin to truly detach from them. Once they feel they may have pushed too far and they see the once-completely-committed spouse start to lose their die-hard commitment, oftentimes something "clicks." It's unfortunate. But that's oftentimes just the way the cookie crumbles. For your M's sake, I just hope it's not too late.

I think you should keep doing what you're doing. Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow. If your W refuses to step up, you'll know when you're done. If she steps up, it'll be HER turn to do all the self-work for herself that you've done for *you* these past several months.

For now, enjoy your self-peace. You've earned it.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Glad the surgery went okay. I agree with Train - it's not surprising you feel that way. I feel the same sometimes.

Cadet posted elsewhere that we put our love in a box and we put that box on a shelf. And if our S wants to work on the M, we can get it down, open it up and have a look at it again.

There's no rush to decide on anything, other than who and how you want to be going forwards. Maybe just let these feelings sit with you for a while.

Glad to hear you are doing okay :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Thanks Train and Toots. Great to hear from you!

Sometimes I feel like an idiot. I have a beautiful wife that I love and I do feel loves me, I have two amazing Ds, I love my in-laws, we have a great set of friends, we even have great neighbors. My house is paid for, I have a good job with a good company, and my health is excellent. What in the world do I have to be unhappy about?

And despite all that, I look at her, and I feel...nothing. None of that connection that she harps on constantly. As recently as a few weeks ago I wold have said that the lack of connection was entirely on her side. Last week I got treated to hearing yet again how she can't figure out how to get unstuck off him and turn her feelings back to me. I heard that and it didn't even phase me. Maybe I've finally reached the level of detachment I should have reached months ago. I still feel like I'm the one doing most of the heavy lifting, and I'm really tired of that.

Maybe I just have M fatigue right now

Last edited by NH115; 04/08/15 11:32 AM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
DB burnout!!

Maybe just give yourself a bit of 'time off' and enjoy the many good things in your life. There's no pressing need to focus on your M right now.

I'm with you on the detachment thing. Starsky said that for him, the detachment part was easy, it was the 'loving' detachment that was harder. Fact is, many of our WAS's aren't that 'lovable' to us right now. Feelings can change though - we know that....

((NH))


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 924
glad things went well with the surgery - I hope the recovery time is short.

I feel very much like you stated above. I feel completely burnt out on trying and not sure if I will regain the love and attraction that I once felt. I worry that these feelings will just go away forever without effort from her.

Now, my lack of connection may just be justifying her lack of connection - which to her may justify her A. It doesn't seem like a winnable battle.

I do try to dig deep and try to find those feelings that I once had for W.


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
I finally acknowledged to her and to myself today that I'm not in love with her, any more than she's in love with me. I'm sick of the roller coaster and of banging my head against a wall.

Not sure where we're going at this point.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
NH, I'm sorry to hear you're feeling this way. I've been quite heartened by what's been happening in your sitch lately, and I do think there has been a 'shift' in your W.

I know it's hard, and I can understand you feeling this way - but if you think of the analogy of the man going up the stairs with a yo you - is the overall trend upwards?

Only you can decide what you want NH, but give yourself time for things to sit with you and keep posting my friend...

((((NH))))


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
When I called this thread "changing the rules", I didn't expect this. To say that the dynamic has shifted is an understatement.

After I had come to the realization that I no longer felt that connection either, the push-pull dynamic kicked in and her rhetoric and attitude changed significantly.

A couple of nights ago I came home from taking D11 out and she had apparently had some sort of epiphany; she realized how much she missed and needed me after all. She wanted to really jump in to rebuilding our marriage. She had regained her respect and attraction for me, apparently. My reaction was less than enthusiastic.

I had been waiting for this day for 6 months, and when it came, I felt...nothing. No relief, no elation, nothing. I had already made peace with D and I was actually looking forward to starting life again.

I guess I'm having trouble buying it. I don't think she's deliberately lying, but a little over a week ago she was still struggling with her feelings for OM. Three years of festering disconnect, 6 months of hell, and overnight it changes? Suddenly our issues that a couple of weeks ago were insurmountable aren't that big a deal? I guess I'm having trouble wondering that if it can shift one way that quickly, that it can shift back just as quickly.

We had a conversation yesterday where I was asked point blank If I was in love with her, and I said no. She then said that it was best for us to split up.

I backed off a little on that; I basically don't trust my own feelings. I don't want to waste her or my time if there's truly nothing there anymore, but I don't want to throw away something good on a momentary emotion.

Am I an idiot? Am I looking a gift horse in the mouth?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: NH115

Am I an idiot? Am I looking a gift horse in the mouth?

How do you KNOW that she is just not testing YOU?

If she truly wants to make this work then you - not pursuing is not going to STOP her.

What have you learned here?
Do you think you should throw all your learning away?


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
That's just it! I DON'T know that she's not just testing. The fact that it switched so suddenly really bothers me. She's a bit of an odd duck, but that just seems off to me.

I'm not pursuing. I genuinely don't know how I feel at this point.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
After I had come to the realization that I no longer felt that connection either, the push-pull dynamic kicked in and her rhetoric and attitude changed significantly.

A couple of nights ago I came home from taking D11 out and she had apparently had some sort of epiphany; she realized how much she missed and needed me after all. She wanted to really jump in to rebuilding our marriage. She had regained her respect and attraction for me, apparently. My reaction was less than enthusiastic.


This shift in the dynamics is exactly what I wanted for the two of you. When the LBH finally drops the emotional rope he had looped around her.....she knows it is for real. Now she is feeling what she should have been feeling two months ago.

Your emotions have battle fatigue. They have been shot down and beaten up so many times until you don't know what to feel right now. I wished to goodness the two of you had just separated a few months ago. I think it would have been a healing process.

You really....REALLY must take a few days away from her! Now! Not later, but today! I don't care where you have to go, just get away from her. Give yourself a break and do not put any pressure on yourself about making a decision. You are in no condition to make a decision regarding your marital status. You are wanting to get out of the "situation" b/c it is sukking the life out of you, and your emotions are saying it must mean you don't love her anymore. Strangely enough, that is how a WAS feels!

Stop telling her that you don't love her. Just tell her you don't know how you feel right now. Tell her you are leaving and don't know when or if you'll be back. You need some time and space. ;)Don't tell her where you will be staying. Tell her not to contact you unless it is a real emergency. Keep is short and simple. I mean it.

Remember how I said the WW has to experience loss? For the first time she is feeling the threat of losing you. Does it mean she's changed over night? IDK, but it could shake her out of her fantasy enough for her to finally see what a fool she's been. And just maybe, that she really wants you.

It is very important that you do not pursue her whatsoever right now. She needs to feels the fear of losing you......and knowing she is to blame. You don't tell her all of that, but she will know it in her heart.

You need to let her work to get you back again. Not for punishment, but that will deepen her desire, and I'm sure you want her to desire you. Keep your mouth shut about telling her anything. Don't tell her she'll have to work to get you, nor give her instructions how to do it. tired

The only exception is when she comes to you with a humble spirit, remorseful, and wants to know what it would take for you to stay. She may not say it in those words, but you'll know the message.

Again, IMO, you must get out of the house and away from any contact with her. Now!


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115


I guess I'm having trouble buying it. I don't think she's deliberately lying, but a little over a week ago she was still struggling with her feelings for OM. Three years of festering disconnect, 6 months of hell, and overnight it changes? Suddenly our issues that a couple of weeks ago were insurmountable aren't that big a deal? I guess I'm having trouble wondering that if it can shift one way that quickly, that it can shift back just as quickly.


I experienced something similar in my sitch. In my case, it was my finally agreeing that we would date others, and then I went on one very casual date. ONE. OMG, you'd think a switch went off. It was the day that our entire sitch turned around.

It kinda depresses me to be honest, to think we humans are such simple creatures, but it's just basic "push/pull" or "chase/capture" male-female dynamics. Think "dogs peeing on fire hydrants," only with a vocabulary, and clothes and stuff. smirk


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: sandi2


This shift in the dynamics is exactly what I wanted for the two of you. When the LBH finally drops the emotional rope he had looped around her.....she knows it is for real. Now she is feeling what she should have been feeling two months ago.




BINGO.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
Sounds like things are going your way, though I understand your trepidation. Hang in there and see where it leads. I can't really add anything as good as the comments you have gotten above, so I will just say I'm rooting for you, buddy. smile


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
Ahhhh, the dance. So textbook.

I think this could be a pivotal moment for your M. It's very clear what's going on. And you don't need to make a decision today.

Step away for a while, as sandi said . Let W start to pursue YOU. It's her turn now to build some attraction back and make some deposits in your depleted Love Bank. If you find yourself re-attracted to her, you will start to feel love again. Same way it's worked with/for her. But don't deny her the dignity of her own struggle. Decide today you won't make a decision. Let's see if she will do the heavy-lifting for a while. If you could go either way, what do you stand to lose?


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: Train
But don't deny her the dignity of her own struggle.



That's a great way to put it, Train. ^^^


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Wow. Great advice. Sandi, I didn't expect your advice to make myself scarce for a while, but God knows I need a break. "Battle fatigue" is a good description. Maybe if I hadn't been so darn afraid of losing her I could have separated earlier and brought this sitch to a resolution that much sooner.

Think "dogs peeing on fire hydrants," only with a vocabulary, and clothes and stuff. - Brilliant, Starsky.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: sandi2


You really....REALLY must take a few days away from her! Now! Not later, but today!



Originally Posted By: NH115

Wow. Great advice. Sandi, I didn't expect your advice to make myself scarce for a while, but God knows I need a break.


So . . . did you follow this great advice? confused


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
I couldn't swing leaving the house immediately, that's coming in a few days. She's still recovering from surgery and I needed to arrange a place to go.

I'm sick of this battle. My head tells me to jump back in with her, 100%. We have so many parts of our life that are good. We do love each other, we have so much shared history, we have our family. We do enjoy being with each other. The thought of being without her is devastating to me. Why put her, and me, and our children through a D, for something that might very well ultimately be a temporary fear?

I listen to my head, but my heart's not in it. I'm scared of going back to old patterns, to the old life that I wasn't happy in. Hell, a lot of my unhappiness with how my life had gone had really nothing to do with her. When she offered me her olive branch the other night, my first thought was "Yeah, right...and we'll be right back in the s*** this time next week". The last thing I want to do is jump back in with her and figure out 5 years down the road that I should have taken the chance at freedom when I had it.

The old manipulation game is being played out again. Last night she said to me that she had finally learned to trust me, but that I shattered it again when I didn't leap at accepting her back. I shattered her trust? She's been screaming at me that I ruined her life for the last 6 months. Endless spew, and roller coaster, and manipulation. I held on for any little kindness from her, like an idiot. She'd be upbeat and optimistic one minute and literally hours later our problems were insurmountable. WTF? What am I missing here?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115


The old manipulation game is being played out again. Last night she said to me that she had finally learned to trust me, but that I shattered it again when I didn't leap at accepting her back. I shattered her trust? She's been screaming at me that I ruined her life for the last 6 months. Endless spew, and roller coaster, and manipulation. I held on for any little kindness from her, like an idiot. She'd be upbeat and optimistic one minute and literally hours later our problems were insurmountable. WTF? What am I missing here?



Your head is telling you to jump back into THAT sh*t ^^^^, 100%??? confused


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Originally Posted By: Starsky309



Your head is telling you to jump back into THAT sh*t ^^^^, 100%??? confused




Well, when you put it THAT way....I'm remembering the 20.5 years before that, where she wasn't acting that way. I wasn't always happy during that time myself, but that was MY responsibility, not hers.

Bottom line, I'm terrified of screwing this up....either staying with her and regretting it, or leaving her and regretting it.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
NH - I think that's why you need to leave ASAP. Set her up with help and take off.


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115


Bottom line, I'm terrified of screwing this up....either staying with her and regretting it, or leaving her and regretting it.


Oh, okay. Then that's your heart, not your head. Which is fine.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 66
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 66
Originally Posted By: NH115

It hit me the other day after flying with a student. We had been up practicing what to do if the engine quits in cruise flight. I asked him, "what's your first order of business in an emergency?". "Pitch for best glide speed?", he said. I answered "No". "Switch fuel tanks?". "No".

I finally said, "The first order of business in any emergency is to fly the airplane." You can follow all the checklist procedures perfectly, but if you lose control of the aircraft, it won't matter. If you keep control of the airplane all the way to the ground, then your chances of survival go up dramatically.



Thank you for this metaphor, very helpful to me.


M: 8 years, together 9
M: 41 W: 32
D 4, S 6
ILYBINILWY 2/10/15
2/14/15-2/22/15 Left home
4/5/15 Suspect A, Initiated Sandi's advice from WW thread
4/19/15 W asked for D
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: NH115


Bottom line, I'm terrified of screwing this up....either staying with her and regretting it, or leaving her and regretting it.


Oh, okay. Then that's your heart, not your head. Which is fine.


Are you suggesting I'm thinking with my heart instead of my head?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Yes.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Or just plain ol' FEAR, which I guess is also more "heart" than "head."


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
I'll cop to that. I'm afraid of breaking up my family for temporary reasons, and I'm afraid of spending the rest of my life with the wrong person, and neither one of us are happy.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Look, stop seeing this as breaking up your family. All I was saying was to get away from her for a few days. Why is that so difficult for you? I understand the part about post surgery care, but apart from that.......you are using "breaking up the family for temporary reasons" as your excuse?

Why couldn't you see, "I need to get away a few days in order to save my family"? What about her seeing what she was losing? But instead, you hung around to get kicked in the teeth.......again. Even when you are doubting your own feelings for her? You had rather stay till neither of you can stand the sight of each other?

Well, there is only a window of time where walking away is effective in the WW's attitude adjustment, but that's just me.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
Yeah, it is a matter of perspective and reframing this process. Sandi is correct in that regard.

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
So did I just blow it?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
No, you did not NH. I do still think it would be good for you to get away for a few days. Why not coral the guys and have a guy's weekend?! You do need it for your own sanity.

Good and strong marriages can withstand a few days apart. Hey, Ms. Wonka and I were apart for 5 days when she went away for a specialized training. We survived it.

A few days isn't gonna hurt at all.

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
If she knows you are going on a guys weekend, she'll think you are being a jerk for doing it while she's getting over her surgery. IMO, she needs to believe she's pushed you too far. She should know no details. And tell her not to contact you unless it's an emergency.

It is important that you get some leverage in this R, b/c she has continued to play the same old song & dance much too long. It's time to put a screeching halt to it (if you haven't waited too long). That is why you don't tell her any more than you are leaving for a few days, maybe longer. Her questions should be answered with you saying, "IDK".


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,126
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,126
Originally Posted By: NH115
I'll cop to that. I'm afraid of breaking up my family for temporary reasons, and I'm afraid of spending the rest of my life with the wrong person, and neither one of us are happy.

Fear is just a reminder that what you're about to do is important. So don't let fear cripple you - everything you want is on the other side of it.

And my goodness, if you're going to go down, don't go down cowering, go down swinging.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 413
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 413
Quote:

Fear is just a reminder that what you're about to do is important. So don't let fear cripple you - everything you want is on the other side of it.

And my goodness, if you're going to go down, don't go down cowering, go down swinging.

-PM


This just became my mantra.


M:32,H 32
T:10, M5
BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger
H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15
Served D Papers: 10/15
Divorced: 11/15
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
Calibri & PM... I just read this fear quote. This is a great quote and this spoke to me. I was just racing a kayak and asked a veteran for advice. He stated... Don't hold back go down paddling with a smile on your face.

NH... You got some good quotes. Sorry for the short hijack. How are you doing? What is the latest?


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Sorry I haven't been around in a while.

I flubbed the temp separation. As positive as things have been around here, it would be strange for me to just up and announce that I was leaving for a few days.

We had our first MC session in a few weeks yesterday. The C was very encouraged by what she saw. This morning W told me she felt closer to me, like we were reconnecting. I still don't feel it yet on my end, but I'm slowing down to give things time. After all, it's what I asked for from her.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
Glad to see you post. I have been wondering about you and how things were going. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. smile


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
NH,

Sometimes things seem slow but they're fast and vice versa. There's no rhyme or reason to this process at times. Keep going and I am glad that your W is starting to see things a bit more clearer.

You cannot depend on W for your own happiness. For many happily married people, there's a balance between pursuing their own interests and having shared interests. I still think it would be good for you to get away for a while with the boys or whatnot.

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
NH,
During this period of time are you doing anything for yourself? GAL'ing? Or are you totally consumed with the current situation?


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115


I flubbed the temp separation. As positive as things have been around here, it would be strange for me to just up and announce that I was leaving for a few days.



Yep. In fact, "strange" is precisely what some of us have been advocating, NH.

As always (and as it should be) -- totally your choice, and your consequences.

Peace,


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Doing fine on the GAL front. Flying a lot, building my business, starting to really study more about investing, looking at some real estate deals. Working on my people skills; I've always been kind of a shy introverted guy but I didn't realize that navigating well socially is a skill that can be learned.

I need to revive that Texas road trip I was going to take last fall.

As positive an focused on us that she's being now, I'm having a hard time getting my brain around what good a contrived separation would do now


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
NH - Flying? I love flying! Is your business in aviation?


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: mahhhty
NH - Flying? I love flying! Is your business in aviation?

I once LIKED that too!

3000 flying time all over the world! smile


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: mahhhty
NH - Flying? I love flying! Is your business in aviation?

I once LIKED that too!

3000 flying time all over the world! smile


With a name like "cadet" I had wondered bout you.

No, unfortunately I had to get a grown-up job grin

I have a side business doing flight instruction. Getting ready to break 2000 hours; right now I'm prepping for my ATP AMEL checkride.

Been away for a while, later on I'll post an update about things at home.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: NH115
With a name like "cadet" I had wondered bout you.
Affectionately called Zoomies too! grin grin grin

Originally Posted By: NH115

No, unfortunately I had to get a grown-up job grin

I have a side business doing flight instruction. Getting ready to break 2000 hours; right now I'm prepping for my ATP AMEL checkride.

Been away for a while, later on I'll post an update about things at home.

Great job - it has been quite a while since I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, at least at the controls.


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
Originally Posted By: NH115
No, unfortunately I had to get a grown-up job grin


Bah Hum Bug! I no longer believe this. I don't have to be a grown up to have the things I want. And I don't believe that money doesn't grow on trees. I firmly believe that I should always be doing the things that I want.

Congrats on the 2,000 hours!


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
Just checking in on you. Haven't seen a post in awhile. I hope that means that things are going well. smile


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
I mean grown-up job tongue in cheek:-)

I'll escape the cubicles and get back to the cockpit full-time someday. It'll happen


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Wow...I didn't realize how long it had been...time flies when you're having fun

Where to begin?

The good: We're still in the same house. I see signs that we're piecing things back together. We're getting along better, less fighting; she seems to feel better about us most days (still depends on the day) and tells me so. She's trying to live “as if” and seems to be trying to find things over which to connect with me. She's spending more time working on herself; working on regaining her sense of self confidence and self worth. These weren't things she had problems with until the last year.

The bad: She's still intensely unhappy at times...depressed, having a hard time finding hings to be happy about or to look forward to. OM is still too big a presence in our lives. While she speaks of him more dispassionately than she used to, I have caught her going to his FB page....every day. Last week she admitted to me that she was depressed because it was his birthday!!! SMH. My requests, suggestions and demands that she remove him from FB and out of her phone have fallen on deaf ears. She insists, like a petulant teenager, that she needs to process thing her way and that I can't try to control how she processes things. I don't usually care what she does, except that she continues to stir her emotions, and refuses to listen.

So here we are; I'm still continuing to GAL; building my business, learning more about investing, working out. It' just kind of a limbo state right now. We're getting along just fine for the most part, but there's still no resolution.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,401
Likes: 111
So glad to see you posting. I have been wondering about you, particularly earlier this week when I was in Fayetteville for a meeting. Glad that you have good news and sorry about the bad news part.

Keep on doing your GAL thing and all that other good stuff you mentioned. Limbo is NOT a pleasant place to be so I will send you positive thoughts and prayers for that part. That was the hardest part for me, albeit quick in my sitch.

Hang in there and glad to see you post again. smile


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115
OM is still too big a presence in our lives. While she speaks of him more dispassionately than she used to, I have caught her going to his FB page....every day. Last week she admitted to me that she was depressed because it was his birthday!!! SMH. My requests, suggestions and demands that she remove him from FB and out of her phone have fallen on deaf ears. She insists, like a petulant teenager, that she needs to process thing her way and that I can't try to control how she processes things. I don't usually care what she does, except that she continues to stir her emotions, and refuses to listen.

. . . It' just kind of a limbo state right now . . .


No, you cannot control her -- only what you will abide. As long as she continues her pining for him, and her petulance, I'm afraid you're going to continue to stare down the barrel at LIMBO. When you're no longer willing to put up with her antics, you will know it and so will she; it doesn't sound like you're there yet.

Good job on the GALing.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
Still here

Still checking in with you

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Thanks, V. Time flies. I’ve been pretty derelict in my posting lately.

I see signs of piecing, but where we really are is an excellent question. We’re trying to live “as if”. I understand the rationale behind that (it was recommended by the MC), but it leaves me a little unsure because it’s hard to tell what her true emotions are and what’s her just trying.

Just taking things at face value, things seem better. Her emotional state is more positive; she seems to have moved past all the self-pity she was wallowing in a few weeks ago. She no longer talks about separation. She’s not having the occasional meltdowns like she used to. We had originally set the end of May as a milestone; if things didn’t look better by then, we could start discussing S. That milestone came and went without any fanfare. She seems warmer; she calls me spontaneously; I get ‘ILY’ from her without prompting. When I had a fight with my F the other day on the phone, she didn’t start freaking out about my family and how much she wanted to escape. Actually she did say she wanted to escape, but she offered to take me with her, LOL.

My GAL continues apace. Still hitting fitness hard; gained a little weight back but lost a few pounds last week. At this point I’m not so much worried about my numerical weight; I just want to make sure what I do have isn’t jiggling. I’ll have a very busy flight schedule coming up in June and July. I’m getting numerous student referrals, and I’m working on expanding my business online to produce more income streams. I’ve contacted a friend of mine in the real estate business, and I’m learning about how to get started in real estate investing. We’ve both spent a lot of time on cleaning out and decluttering our house.

The MC was very positive and encouraging the last time we visited. Our MC schedule hasn’t been as consistent as I like due to vacations and W’s surgery (she’s recovering nicely, BTW). The MC was pointing out how different W sounded when comparing her rhetoric now to when we first started going in November. W used to tell me that her behavior and rhetoric during the height of her A fog was simply her being honest. A couple of weeks ago she finally apologized for that and admitted that a lot of her behavior back then was driven by her anger at me. That was an important epiphany IMHO. Still no sex, though. I initiated a couple of weeks ago and she seemed to be into it, but then she had an emotional crash a couple of days later, which has been a pattern. I resolved not to initiate sex for the time being…she wants some of this, she knows what to do LOL. She boils down our dilemma to basically sex. She has most of what she wants in me (so she says) and she wants to make this work, but she has some sort of block where sexual attraction is concerned, and she doesn’t know how to get it back. Neither one of us is willing to settle for a celibate relationship.

OM made his regular visit to our area last week. I acknowledged that I knew he was in town, but that was the last mention from either one of us. It feels like our sitch is becoming less and less about him as time goes on. She obviously talked to him during the day at work (unavoidable) but made no attempt to contact him outside of that.

On balance, things seem positive; but I still have that nagging in the back of my head. I can’t tell how much of this is her genuinely positive about our future, or is she consciously trying to live “as if”. I want to make sure that she wants to be here; I want things to work, but I refuse to be "settled for". I’m just doing what I can do; focus on improving myself and seeing where the chips fall.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
Sweetheart this is a long road that you travel. Great news that you are still standing.

And no longer obsessed with OM!

It looks to me as if W is beginning to see the end of her fog.

As for the attraction part, are you clear on exactly what the original attraction was between you? I have always believed that we don't need to become different to attract our spouses, after all they were attracted to us originally, we know they find us attractive. That is a given. We only need to tap back into it.

This has been a great effort for you and I perceive you moving forwards in life very quickly. The 'as if' is ok NH, nothing wrong with it in my book as a meanwhile position, it looks bang on timeframe to me.

You are still becoming a man only a fool would leave. I always knew you would.

Peace

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
For her the attraction was my stability, I was level-headed, strong, and in control; for me it was her spontaneity and creativity...and red hair...I'm a sucker for redheads....must be a Scottish thing...LOL.

She had reason to think that I wasn't as stable as I seemed (not totally unwarranted) and after a couple of life events she lost much of that free-spiritedness. It was like we were both victims of false advertising, though not intentional.

I think this journey for both of us has been about finding our old selves and hopefully finding what attracted us to each other.

"Becoming a man only a fool would leave" has been my sole focus. I need to be a man that I can respect; I wasn't that for a long time. I'm actually grateful that this whole sitch happened, as painful as it's been. It's what I needed. It seems to be paying off. I see little things from her, bits and pieces.

Whether she decides to be a fool or not is up to her.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
Well NH you are certainly becoming level headed, strong and I hope with self control!

I can only suggest a couple of adventures to give W the opportunity to bring out the free spirit. I recollect you are excellent at that kind of planning.

NH if you need to talk you can nudge me and I will be here.

Thank you for posting

Joy

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 06/09/15 09:07 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
I just don't know where the hell I am anymore.

The last three weeks or so have been great. We were consciously living "as if". We were getting along, we weren't wasting our time in nonproductive R talks, things were warmer between us. we were working together on decluttering the house. I would have said that we were solidly in piecing.

Then I initiated sex with her.

And today she had her first meltdown in weeks.

I should have known better. I had decided a while back not to initiate with her for a while because It seemed to trigger something in her. I didn't have to twist her arm at the time. She seemed to be into it. But about 48 hours later (I can almost set my watch by it) she crashes.

If she could boil down our root issue, it's sex. She says she loves me. She wants us to work, become a solid couple again, but she feels sexually dead towards me, has for years, and is terrified that she can't get it back.

She thinks everyone else has their marriages together...that they're all financially better off, that they're all connected, while we wasted our relationship drifting apart and not building anything. Everyone else has it going on except us (D*** Facebook!)

What am I doing wrong? Should I be doing anything else to foster that attraction? Is there a point to me even trying?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Man, I'm so sorry Rzr. I don't have a real advice for you (and you probably wouldn't want it anyway, since the whole SSM thing is the one thing me and the fetching Mrs. Starsky never have figured out either), but wanted to let you know I was reading along and sending you some man-hugs, bro.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Much appreciated Starsky. Good to hear from you again. What's SSM?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Sex-Starved Marriage -- another book (and sub-forum) by MWD.


Edit - Please start a new thread - Cadet

Last edited by Cadet; 06/16/15 08:34 PM.

M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
I'm at my wits end.

Just when I think we're piecing, that things are improving, it blows up.

We were traveling back from a great long weekend in San Antonio with the kids. All seemed well; we were living as if, she was warmer, we were making good memories with the kids, all these things we're supposed to do....

And then OM posts a pic of he and his wife on a couples vacation in San Francisco. My W freaks out. Total spew, hate and blame. Spew on him for playing mind games with her, spew on me for screwing up her life, spew on herself for being a loser. Alternation between hate at me, hate at him and self pity. This victim crap of hers is really getting old.

Seems like every time I get some hope it blows up in my face. At this point I'd be happy for her to run off with someone else just to get the abuse and mind games to stop.

When things are calm, she's warm, upbeat; things aren't where they should be but we're on a good path. When she crashes, it's hell.

I know piecing is a long process but shouldn't we be past some of this by now?

I told her to do what she needed to do to make herself happy...I even got to the point of giving her a hall pass; if she wants to meet someone, then she should do it. At least then I'd be free to make my life the way I want it. Her answer was telling; she didn't say that she wanted to continue to work on us, she was terrified that she was too old, too tired and too busy to go out and meet men. That spoke volumes to me.

I'm just about to quit


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
NH,

All I can say is "wow"....your W is still very stuck on XOM. Why does she give a damn about what he does or doesn't do. I think she is feeling sore about the rejection from the XOM as if she's unworthy of someone's love.

Self-esteem issues right there...for sure!

Aren't you two in MC at all?

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Self esteem is a huge issue. A big part of her spew is this idea that she's too old to meet anyone else, that the best part of her life has passed her by, that she's been cursed with an unhealthy romantic life...the first two men she slept with ended up being gay, the wall between us for 12 of our 20 years, her married OM. I made mistakes with her, my parents have this inexplicable animosity towards her, her OM decided to stick with his own wife of 16 years instead of upending it all for her...and she somehow thinks it's about her worth. She never used to be like this. One of the things I loved about her was that she was her own person and nobody's victim.

I knew she was still stuck on OM, but I also saw signs that the fog was lifting. She intellectually knows that he's bad news. She knows that she could never fully trust him because of his history of infidelity (she was OW #3), but she's angry because her feelings haven't followed. Despite all that, if he called her tomorrow, told her he was leaving his wife and wanted her, she'd be gone, even though she knows what a piece of work he is. She admitted to me the other night that on his last visit he had asked her out for drinks the next time he's in town (which is probably September). She didn't say yes, but she hasn't said no yet either. This was after three other visits where no deep conversation took place. Mind games. Why do I put up with this crap?

There was a semi-positive thing to come out of the meltdown this weekend. She finally decided to unfriend him on Facebook and get him out of her phone. The catch is that she doesn't want to do it until she has a chance to talk to him face to face, get some questions answered, and tell him to go away for good. If her marriage is the priority she says it is, then why does she need any questions answered? Remove him from her devices, shoot him a "don't call me" message, and be done with it.

We're in MC, we have a lot to talk about in session tomorrow.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
NH,

I think it's time to be your true authentic self and open up on how this affects you emotionally. Just simply state that you feel that XOM is the higher priority over you and that makes you feel unwelcome as a husband. That is not good.

Put it on the table and state your needs as a H. You might want to visit CaliGuy's thread over in MLC for he really articulated his needs to his MLCer W. Thought that was a really well reasoned approach.


Edit - Start a new thread - Cadet


Last edited by Cadet; 06/30/15 05:59 PM.
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Thanks Wonka. Caliguy's thread is huge so it'll take a little while to go through it.

It's apparent I need to revisit detaching. I thought we were further down the line than we were. This weekend's meltdown pointed out how much progress we haven't made.

I'm having a hard time figuring out where her head is. To be fair I'm not sure she knows where her head is.

The good: when her state of mind is good, she's positive, she wants to work on us, she participates fully in MC. We just came off a great trip together. She's warmer than she has been in a long time, though it's still a little off. I was talking with her just now and she wanted to sit down tonight and talk about ways we can raise some capital for some business ideas I'm working on. She notices and praises the changes I've made I my life. She talks about how much more attractive and strong I am.

The bad: She still doesn't "give" much. Affection is sill mostly initiated by me (that's gotta stop. I allowed myself to get lazy). She had the major meltdown over OM's pic. She knew they were going on this trip. She is still obsessed with what OM is thinking...if he's working on his own marriage, why does he want to have drinks with her? Why is she so concerned about getting her questions answered? If our marriage is first priority, why bother? She's still full of anger at me and it comes out at times. Then when she's calm and in a decent mood she's not angry. She says we both allowed our marriage to deteriorate and then blames me for screwing up her life...often in the same 15-minute span. I need a neck brace because of the whiplash.

I just can't figure out where we are.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
N
NH115 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 788
Cadet, new thread in MLC or new thread here?


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: NH115
Cadet, new thread in MLC or new thread here?

Here unless you only want one only in MLC cause this one is going to lock


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: NH115
She admitted to me the other night that on his last visit he had asked her out for drinks the next time he's in town (which is probably September). She didn't say yes, but she hasn't said no yet either. This was after three other visits where no deep conversation took place. Mind games. Why do I put up with this crap?

There was a semi-positive thing to come out of the meltdown this weekend. She finally decided to unfriend him on Facebook and get him out of her phone. The catch is that she doesn't want to do it until she has a chance to talk to him face to face, get some questions answered, and tell him to go away for good. If her marriage is the priority she says it is, then why does she need any questions answered? Remove him from her devices, shoot him a "don't call me" message, and be done with it.


I can't tell you what to do, NH -- none of us can. But those two things ALONE would be a dealbreaker for me. For most of us, I would imagine.

You're worth more than all of this. Much more. I pray you can see that one day soon.


Starsky


New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2583562#Post2583562

Last edited by Cadet; 06/30/15 08:28 PM. Reason: Link

M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard