Claire learning to accept

[Sherman333]

stay as long as he wanted. He said to her, "But I have things to do. I have to do laundry, take my dry cleaning in, unpack my suitcase." I'm not kidding. Does he really wonder why she wants me to hold her instead of him??

Wow. I'm always amazed that there's not much empathy for what the kids are going through. The "kids are resilient" statements/assumptions really annoy me when I know how much my S7 hurts and I imagine your D as well.

One thing I've done is have my S start going to IC sessions for him.

[claire7]

Fire away, Mozza. I'm curious to hear your perspective!

[claire7]

People, I think I'm finally figuring it out.

Nothing I say will change his view of himself or of me. But his view of me does not need to be MY view of me... and I also don't need to feel obligated to try to *change* his view of me.

I also cannot have ANY expectations of him. And just because he can't act in ways that I want him to doesn't mean that I shouldn't act according to my values.

He lets off his frustration about how annoying and complicated co-parenting life is to me. So be it.

I can own the part of his frustration that feels appropriate. And just let it be. Let him be someone else's problem.

It's taking SO MUCH right now to curb my desire to just tell.him.off. To tell him that this is all HIS CHOICE and d@mn right it's hard and complicated.

But I"m holding it in.

[Mozza]

I've read this thread, but not the previous ones, although I remember coming in and out. I don't comment as a vet, but as a fellow newcomer, hoping that certain things that appear clearer to me might help you. Also, much of what I have to say has been said before by people with more credibility, to little effect. You seem stuck.

You are tortured because you don't know why he left you. I don't know if he told you something unsatisfactory, but you make it sound like he just told you ILYBINILWY. I suggest that love works in mysterious ways, that there is no clear reason why we stop loving. I'm guessing that you've had other relationships before him. You probably also had men infatuated with you where you felt nothing in return. You're not in love with your neighbor who's handsome enough and always polite. Why is that? Don't know. Why did he stop loving you, after marrying you? It's the same mystery. On day, he looked at you across the table and thought: "40 more years? No." I've left two women before my WAW and I just knew that I didn't love them anymore. There was nothing specific that I could point: "If only you didn't criticize my cooking, I would love you again." There was no way I'd go to a therapist with them to work on issues; I was done. We'll get back to this.

And yet, when he is formal and more business like with me, I hate that too.

But you do realize that this is the best thing he can give you? This is what I get from my WW and I'm grateful for it. I don't want to reignite any feelings for her, as I'm slowly detaching. You have tremendous difficulties detaching, so you should take every opportunity, like these. You probably read too much into any act of kindness on his part. He's gone and it's not because he sends you emails and texts with personality that he's back. You need short communications that confirm the S to help you at this stage.

That's not the kind of person I want to spend my life with anyway. So lame and weak. I think I pity him more than anything else. He makes such a big point to call his apartment "our apartment t" with my D, yet he barely keeps anything there for her. How is it "her" home when she has to pack a bag every time she goes there. So lame and sad.

Quotes like this litter your thread. He can do nothing right and you never see things from his perspective. You imagine his reasons for leaving, then blame him for them. You imagine his emotions regarding D3, then you blame him for them. You call him lame and weak for not having set up his house for D3 yet. As an involved father, I'll grant you that it's not great, but I can also understand that he's going through a difficult transition. Stop assuming everything he does wrong or not to your standards is a cardinal sin.

The only reason why your WAH may ever come back is because he loves you again. I wonder how many times you've been told that, because I see that Maybell told you on February 18 and then many others. Maybell's a fantastic post and I'm not sure there's much I'm adding to it now. Your response was not so good: it was again a slight at your H and later some quick nods, without much introspection.

Look at this excerpt. You're supposed to talk about yourself, but you talk about him and spew. He's stubborn, fearful, grumpy, closed, difficult, doesn't see your value, is not an intimate partner, is emotionally immature, he's not supportive. Dense paragraph!

I do think he has "looked back" and probably questioned his decisions. But his own stubbornness (i.e. fear) prevents him from believing in positive change. That's sad. He's been described by friends and family as "grumpy", "not the most open with his feelings (that was from a guy friend!), even his family says he can be difficult.

What troubles me through your posts is your assumptions that he's always wrong, mean, insensitive, etc. Personally, I see a man who's trying to do his best with the fallout of his big decision to S. He's very diplomatic in his communications and takes the time to clear up the air and explain himself. I'm rather impressed.

Why am I fighting the urge to send him an email that says,
"A night like tonight makes me realize that I still don't understand why you are choosing this life. I am beautiful, intelligent, caring, a great mom and a great person. We have the potential to be a great team. That you don't value me--and the commitment you made to me-- enough to be willing to work on our marriage says so much more about you than me."

Major cringe alert! First, this email is such a turn off. Imagine receiving it. Who is attracted to someone who [is]says[/i] "I'm a great person" rather than act like it? I know you didn't send it, but you need to understand that this line of thinking is a waste of your precious time and energy. Second, you finish the email with another spew of anger. It's always there, one or two sentences away. If the poor guy were to reconsider, I feel for him and all the anger he'll have to endure.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you never say anything nice about him. Yet, every post is filled with spew towards him. But should he roll his eyes and write you a polite email about his reasons, then you say he spews, he's mean, etc. I simply don't think he does. I can see that sometimes he gets a little tense, and I can understand that we all do during S, but if you want to see spew, go read other sitches such as Vanilla's. You should be happy to have such a polite H.
____________________

I'm going to make a bold suggestion.

Claire7, I think you're your H.

You have inverted the roles in your head. You accuse him of many of the tings you actually do. This spew is yours, not his. The emotionally immaturity is as much yours who can't let go of someone who so clearly rejected you. Your criticism about his parenting might just be about your own insecurities as a single mom (I have them as a single dad), especially covered with declarations such as "I'm a great mom" (above). His weakness is yours when you can't let go of him after almost 1.5 year and still feel so sad about the S. The best one is when you say he's stubborn! I think you can see this one yourself.

If my theory is right, then that explains why you can't let go. The contradiction is within you and letting go would require you accepting these flaws as yours, which is much harder than blaming someone else.

To me, he comes across as a decent man who fell out of love and who's trying to navigate the S towards D with a W that's a ball of anger the size of the sun. You might think you hide it, but he can smell it on you, as with everything we fake (which explains why I avoid my WW).
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So, the jacket. As a father, I'm hyper-sensitive to any criticism of my parenting and so are my guy friends. I would have rolled my eyes at your comment too. We're much more insecure than women because it is assumed that we're incapable of raising kids. The upside is that anything we do is seen as an accomplishment, but the downside is that we're expected to fall short. This is how your H feel. Empathize with him, instead of assuming he wants to hurt you by showing his discomfort. Let him parent the way he wants. D4 will be fine.

His thoughts:

Like I said, I will attend some sessions with a counselor or therapist, but am not attending with the intention of pursuing a reconciliation. You alluded to this the other night. I've thought long and hard about it, for many months, and I just don't have the necessary feelings for that. I know you don't understand it. I don't know that there is something I can do to make you understand it. I'm very sorry for that. But I am open to discussing ways for us to improve communication, carve a more amicable path forward, find ways to give the benefit of the doubt more frequently, figure out a way that we can be friends in the long term.

BD was 17 months ago and you came here some 12 months ago. How is it possible that he can still believe that you want him back? You understand that this is the opposite of basic DB, right? He has to believe that he might lose you for good, that's your only chance (and no guarantee). Read the recent thread of T0324 who won her H back. This is exactly how it worked. She was short with him, cut him out of her life, she built her own life, had fun, she looked good when she met him, but wasn't pursuing. He came around. DB works as advertised (when it works).

You need to rebuild attraction. It's his only way back to you. Love. It's only by falling in love with you again that he might come back. Not out of guilt, duty, etc.

What are you doing to rebuild attraction? Perhaps you already do, but you don't mention anything in this thread covering the last month.

First, the basics: Stop pursuing. Stop asking him why he left. Stop telling him that you'd be better together. Stop telling him he's a good cook. Stop arguing over the S.

Tell us about your GAL, about your new dress, about your volleyball team, about your cooking class, about your cocktail skills, etc. (again, maybe you did earlier)

Friends? I don't think so.

The only reason he's offering you to be friend is because you're pulling so hard to have him back in the M. You read his email and again all you have is spew. He's crazy for offering to be friends! But what I don't see is some empathy on why he says this. I see a guy who tries really hard to be clear, helpful, kind, etc. I wouldn't have anything to change to his email, nothing to adjust in his attitude. An ever more useful reaction on your part is to wonder why he still thinks you want him back. This is a major alarm that your DBing is not working.

If I didn't read your signature or sign up date, I would think that BD was about three months ago, especially after this email. You're still very angry, focused on him, you parse his every word and actions, you get very very sad, he's trying to make you understand it's over. You need to change something because what you're doing now is not working for you.

What I'm suggesting is that you can do a lot of progress in your sitch and it's all under your control. It's about changing your attitude and approach. I hope I wasn't too harsh in making that point. Know that, like everyone else here, all I want is for you to succeed.

[claire7]

Gonna take some time to process all this, Mozza. But the short response is: thank you. This was hard to read, but I needed to hear it.

Ironically, I was drafting a post that was all about how I am an awful DBer and need to get off my high horse. I was listing all the ways in which I have failed at DBing. So, your words came at the right time because I am ready to hear them and ready to be unstuck.

And perhaps someone else will post a kind word or two, because I can certainly use that right about now as well.

[Zues126]

This quote may not look directly applicably, but it has given me the most hope when I feel I have fallen so short I can never be redeemed. I carried it around with me for years. The RELIEF I felt was profound. I hope you feel the same.



When you expect it least, the ego, declared dead, will surge into your soul, and in an instant you'll feel as far removed from Tao as Heaven from Earth.

Has this ever happened to you? Don't despair, let it go, do what comes next. Accepting failure is a humbling experience, akin to enlightenment. In an instant you'll discover that Heaven and Earth are one and that you've never been separated from Tao.

The Taoist sage lives learning to accept failure, and so never fails.

[claire7]

Thank you, Zeus, for taking the time to share this message.

I'm signing up for a mindfulness course. Getting several GAL plans on the calendar for April/May. Had a GREAT day today with D and a couple of neighborhood friends and their kids.

I'll get there, I know I will.

[T384]

Claire -

Just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you. I know this all [censored]... Work on what you can about YOU but don't beat yourself up too hard.

[gan]

Hiya Claire. Mozza, offered some great insights. I've been revisiting some of the books by David Schnarch lately. They were the first ones that really gave me a framework for thinking about how to work on me. I think you might find them useful. In sum, he proposes 4 core areas (paraphrasing) that align pretty well with DBing:
1. Learn to hold on to yourself - know what you stand for (boundaries)
2. Learn to soothe your own anxieties - validate yourself! (GAL)
3. Learn to respond mindfully and not reactively (listen, validate, empathise)
4. Confront your issues - where are you stuck? what is your role in that? When you feel stuck and are inclined to blame others it probably means you are not confronting yourself
He argues that these are the skills we need for effective, intimate relationships but I find this framework just as useful for dealing with day to day issues sans R.

[Maybell]

Thanks, at, that was helpful.