Wife ready to walk away

[Miler]

Here is my thread. I was told to post in the newcomers section so it would get more traffic.

Thanks for any input and advice...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2548552#Post2548552

[Cadet]

I would make this your primary thread
here is your first post.

Hi all, I've been on here reading quite a bit for the past 3 days and decided to post. Everyone is so supportive and has great advice. I also have 2 of Michele's books.

My wife and I have been married for 15 years, we have 3 kids ages 14, 12, and 6. We have by no means had a bad marriage, but little things here and there that have eroded trust and building up walls. I have been talking with her for about the last 18 months about both of us seeming distant and not opening up. She has agreed. Late last week, I felt I need to talk with her about it... BOOM! She said she no longer feels that she know who she is, she feels like she doesn't have the ability to be vulnerable around me, and doesn't think it can continue to work. She said she doesn't truly believe people can change, or relationships can change, and she's given 15 years for this one to change and it hasn't.

Instead of giving her space, I continued to try and get her to see the bright side and see if we could work together and change. She said she was taking a stand on this one and she was going to do what it took to get herself back. She was willing to give it a little time and see counseling. I told her we could set a good example to the kids about digging in rolling up their sleeves and fighting for what you want. She said her perspective is that you can also leave a relationship for happiness and get what you want as well. I really worry about the kids.

Last night we started to talk about it again, which ended in another big fight in which she proceed to tell me I had 3 days to show her I could change...and I didn't. Whew...I'm lost. This morning she agree to call of the divorce, have a separation period under the same roof, and see a counselor next Thursday. Man this is hard. I obviously want to talk things out, but she is so hurt, raw, and has her heels dug in, it can only go south. She said her reasoning to go to counseling is so that we can communicate better...don't know if that means towards working on our relationship or just in the fact we will have to co-parent as divorcees.

Here is the list of things she says I do (yes I wrote them down after the fight)
1) always feels like I'm stressed and won't open up
2) Has everyone else living on egg shells
3) Can be controlling when we fight
4) Don't listen well
5) Think of myself first
6) emotionally up and down when we fight

How do I move forward. I intend not to talk with her about the relationship anymore until we see the therapist. What should I do around the house? How should I act? Please help!

I gave you my welcome post there but I agree that you should keep posting here.(there will be more traffic)

[Miler]

Had a non-conflict night last night!! I came home extremely upbeat, and asked how everyone's day went. She answered and asked about mine. I played outside with the boys, played aboard game with them, and helped with homework. I offered to help with dinner, and I got no thanks with no eye contact. We all had dinner together, but she and I didn't communicate. I went and picked up my daughter from the gym, ran and got milk (without her asking because we were out), and put the kids down. When I came downstairs, she was folding clothes. I offered to help, but she said nope, I got it...so I told her good night and went to my room. Little things I noticed:

1) she did not make my plate of dinner, only hers and the kids.
2) she avoided eye contact at all costs
3) she answered any questions, but had short answers
4) she initiated one conversation about one of the boy's friends

***I must admit, I almost feel as though she is mad at me because I am not unhappy?!?!?

This morning, she was very icy and avoided eye contact. She gave one word answers for things like when I told everyone to have a good day. She happened to be walking back into the house from dropping off the kids as I was walking out to my ride. She actually smiled and I told her to have a great day...I didn't pay attention to whether she answered or not.

About 30 minutes into work, she texted me to tell me son's track meet was cancelled. She then texted to ask about some pictures that might be on my laptop. I answered very upbeat telling her I would look and send them to her. She texted back to tell me no hurry. I sent the pictures and told her there were some great shots in there. She immediately replied, Thank you.

What do we think? Am I going about this the right way?

[Miler]

Last week, wife's favorite uncle died. We obviously had limited interaction over the last week with the separation. I went into her room last night and told her that I didn't have the right words, but I was so sorry for her loss and I knew how much he meant to her. She actually looked my into the eyes and told me she appreciated it. Later in the night, she actually initiated some talk (not about the kids) while we were all at the dinner table. I only responded when spoken to and made myself scarce around the house (doing 180s...folding laundry, helping kids with homework, talking with my daughter on her bed, etc.). She definitely pulled away for the rest of the night - of course there is still a huge part of her grieving as well.

She was leaving this morning to go to the funeral a few states away with her parents (there will be a big family there). I was helping get the kids ready for school. She came and told each one of them bye, but didn't really acknowledge me. At one point though, I was bringing my work bag to the living room and she gave me a half smile and rubbed down my arm. I just kept going and went about my business. I haven't called, texted, or any thing since. I did send flowers to her aunt this morning...I am assuming she will see that when she gets there. I am assuming right now she is thinking "too little, too late"

ANY INSIGHTS, INPUT, or ADVICE? any thing new when she gets back on Sunday night?

[Miler]

Crazy, as I was typing the last post, my wife texted me to tell my youngest that she loves him. The pessimist in me thinks this could be her reminder to me that I needed to pick him up from school in her absence, but her-initiated communication is communication, right?

[Miler]

Will not talk about relationship until be see counselor next Thursday. That will be the first time we will have talked about it since we agreed to 1 month under the same roof separation and counseling. Earlier that day, she said it would probably be better if we got a divorce because she couldn't see me changing. I told her I would change to save the marriage, if for the kids only. She asked how she could believe me that I would change, because I haven't in 15 years. She was tired of believing me and letting her guard down, she had built up and wall and didn't know who she was anymore. I have been DB/DRing ever since then. My changes and 180s, and have been great. I have been disconnecting from work, my head, my device, etc. to be in the moment with the kids. I am always upbeat around the house and give her plenty of space - Sandi's rules!

[Miler]

Goals for counseling (this is a female pro-marriage Gotten style counselor):
1) Let my wife vent in a "protective" environment
2) Validation - directly from the validation cheat sheet
3) High light what I am working on without making it seem like I am telling my wife I am changing.

Any thoughts from you guys?

[Miler]

Yesterday morning I ended up sending flowers to her aunt's house, but didn't tell anyone. Last night, I got a text from my W asking if I sent flowers. I texted back "I did". She then replied. "Thank you. Everyone was asking because the card said from you and the family...that was very sweet." I didn't send anything back. Before bed, she FaceTimed with the kids, but didn't acknowledge my presence. Man I feel like I am on a roller coaster. Anyone have any thoughts? Also, She asked if I could pick her up from the airport on Sunday evening, but went on to tell me her best friend was busy at that time...is she trying to bait me into a reaction?

[Cadet]

is she trying to bait me into a reaction?

Maybe

She is working on pure emotion right now,
so not thinking things through but depending on how
her emotions feel then that is how she feels.

Make sense?

High light what I am working on without making it seem like I am telling my wife I am changing.

Any thoughts from you guys?

You make changes for YOU
not to win her back

They must be real changes too
that is why the focus goes to YOU.

[Miler]

Cadet, I understand what you are saying. Do you not think she is thinking about whether this can work or whether my changes are real and lasting?

Indeed, my changes are for me and the kids. It's only been a week, but I've been disconnected from work, devices, and my own head. I've been in the moment with my kids, spending quality time with them, and really connecting with them. I have been following through on my commitments as well. These changes ARE for me, and I don't ever want to go back. I am very happy with where I am...my anxiety stems from the fact that I wish the whole family (including wife) want to move forward with the changes. I'll say, I've already seen a warming in behavior from my 14 year old daughter. She wants to spend more time with me, she wants to be in the same room with me (not up in her room texting or watching Netflix). Hopefully it's not too late to right this whole ship!

[Miler]

Man, I am struggling today. My mind is playing tricks on me and it [censored]...

[Miler]

So wife just texted me after the funeral: Can you please have the kids call me when they have a sec? After each of them spoke, my youngest handed me the phone. I said hello, she said, hey there. I asked how everything was going with the family. She said things are going fine. She then asked how I was. I said doing well. What time did you need me to pick you up at the airport tomorrow? She answered 9:00. I said, see you then.

It's killing me not to ask her if she misses me! It kills me not knowing what she is thinking, Staying tough and following Sandi's rules...

[sandi2]

Have you read the links Cadet gave?

Do suspect OM? Any suspicious or unusual behavior from her?

[Miler]

I have read through all of Cadet's posts. Great stuff.

Although I am not 100% certain there is not another man, i do not think so. Her father did that to her mother and she has always vowed and pleaded for honestly, especially related to fidelity. I do not think she would expose the kids to that after what her family went through. Again, I don't know for certain, but there are no signs of that what so ever...but I would say that where she is emotionally right now, she could be vulnerable to that.

[Miler]

This has a sense of her feeling controlled, not listened to, and feeling like she is on her own. She feels that were are a 15 year roller coaster of up periods and down periods. The down periods usually suck pretty bad... This is where I am doing my 180s. I do everything wrong to make her feel bad, guilty, and then I break all of Sandi's rules. Until now!

[Miler]

Here's the kicker Sandi and everyone... Her support and best friend from childhood that lives in the neighborhood has been divorced aonve, broke off an engagement once, and has bad relationship after bad relationship. Takes the easy way out. She does not have kids, but has a sister who is divorced with kids and is living a nightmare. Further, my W's older brother was divorced with kids 10 years ago and is still going through hell. She hangs with that friend every other day, and she is with her brother at the funeral this weekend. Uggggg.

[Zephyr]

Be Strong and focus on you and your kids. Remember you are working at making yourself the man you want to be (with or without her), the one only a woman would be a fool to leave. Have you started working on your goals, keeping track of your 180s, what are you doing for GAL? Make those changes for YOU. Make sure you are being true to yourself... we LBSs need to make sure first of all that we are being honest with ourselves...otherwise how in the world should we expect anyone, especially our WASs, to be honest with us. Learn to Respect yourself...this includes all of what everyone here has been repeating including learning to set healthy boundaries and learning to become a man you can look at in the mirror every morning and be able to smile At. None of any of the DB principals will make a difference if you cannot even respect yourself. Build from there.

I just stopped in to say stay strong and somehow the rest spewed out of the keyboard....so sorry if I am out of line with your sich...sounds similar to mine so thought I'd post.
I will tell you with absolute certainty that once your self respect starts to improve and your confidence in yourself begins to return, people around you will start to take notice.

[Zephyr]

Also, in all honesty, my last post was as much for me as it was intended for you. A healthy kick in the a$$ is a good thing for me once in a while.

[Miler]

Ok guys, I'm picking up WAW from the airport this evening. She is coming back from unlce's funeral. How should this go? I want to be sensitive, but also want to follow DB principles. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[sandi2]

Be pleasant, upbeat but don't over-kill to the point you are acting weird. Be sensitive to the fact she's just lost a family member.

Number one thing here is to stay away from talking about yourself and/or the relationship. Your part is to listen to her talk about whatever.

Do not get sucked into any R talks or arguments. She will probably be tired, maybe irritable. Stay in control of yourself.

[2chiquitos]

I read Cadet encouraged you to focus on yourself and I want to re-iterate that. Your posts are all about how she is doing but I see very little about you as to what you are doing to work on yourself. Ex. she this, she that.

You rely on her behavior and then try to analyze it. You try to see if it is because of something you did or didnt do. STOP! thats my 2X4.

Journal about YOUR thoughts not YOUR thoughts on what she is or isnt doing. What do these feelings remind you of. Go back to your childhood. Reflect on your own experiences.

[Miler]

Wow. Thanks 2chiquitos. You are right. I am so damned worried about what's going on in her head, I am again losing focus on me, I am striving to be the best father and person I can be. If I am changing for her, this won't end well. Thanks again.

[2chiquitos]

R u going to IC? If so what are some of the topics of discussion during your sessions?

[Miler]

Yes, I am in IC. The main focus now is me disconnecting from external things (work, devices, kids coaching) and tryin to be in the moment with conversations, moments with the kids, etc.

[Miler]

Interaction was nice last night. I kept it all about her. She initiated some discussion, which was great. We shared eye contact on several occasions. She thanked me for picking her up at the airport. Before we left the kitchen, I told her how great it was she got to have that weekend experience with her family. She smiled and looked me in the eyes and agreed. I could totally be reading into this with rose colored glasses, but it was almost as if she paused and wanted to hug me. I said, hope you have a good night...see you in the morning and walked upstairs.

Today, I will work on my positive thoughts, words, and actions. I will continue to learn to focus on what's in front of me. My biggest hurdle right now is detaching. I will get it!

[Cadet]

My biggest hurdle right now is detaching. I will get it!

Yes it is and yes you will!

[2chiquitos]

Im interested to know what strategies your IC told you about to practice working on yourself?

I learned something recently about practicing living in the moment. Observe your five senses. What do you smell? What do you taste? What do you hear? What can you feel? What can you see?

Also honing in on your location. Example. I am here on Earth, Northern Hemisphere, North America, United States, etc...

Food for thought.

How about journaling about how you practiced

[Miler]

My IC has me focusing on first my internal sensations, like can I feel or hear my heartbeat, then working outward...noticing my breathing, noticing my surroundings, noticing my partner. After I take internal stock, I fully engage in the activity that I a participating. For example, when I am playing a board game with one of the kids, my mind wondering about work prevents me from fully connecting with my child. I don't fully engage in the moment and lose opportunities for connection and bonding. This most certainly happens with the W. The phone is a big distrator that prevents me from living in the moment, as well as spending time in my head (thinking about work, etc). So I have to put all of that aside (external things like the device are easy enough to leave in the other room), but thought control is much more difficult. Hard not to think 30 minutes in the future while doing something or talking with others.

[Miler]

I have definitely had my best day yet today, I took a road trip for business with my partner. We laughed, cut up, and even had some serious moments of discussion about the R (he has been through a D). It did sort of click that my happiness isn't dependent on the marriage. That's a big mistake I've been making for years. I'm independent of the marriage. I can be happy with or without her. Was the craziest feeling...something I haven't had in 15 years. Also the first time I finished a full meal in a week! Lol. Anyway, detached from W when I got home...she continues to pull away and act pissed. I'll be patient with her because I know she's hurt, angry and upset (and she just buried her uncle). I also continue to show her unconditional love, and contribute happily to household chores, etc, But I am working on me and my relationship with my kids...ain't nobody got time for that negativity she's showing me.

[Miler]

Man, detaching is hard... today, not such a good day. No conflict, just really bummed and feel on the verge of tears at times.

[NH115]

Detaching is hard, and it won't be linear. You'll make progress and then have a setback. That's normal. Just keep at it. I'm 6 months in to my sitch and it's hard work.

One thing that helped me was, like you mentioned, when I realized that I didn't need her to be happy. If she makes the choice to leave, I'll grieve, but then I'll move on. As much as I want my W and I to reconcile, I'm actually a little excited about the possibility of getting to have my own life. My basic attitude about reconciliation is that I want my W back, but only if it's 100% back. Full marriage, full intimacy, full fidelity. I'm not interested in being married simply because the alternative is too scary.

[Miler]

Thanks NH115,
We went to counseling yesterday, and she continues to say she is done. I have detached to the best of my abilities. I validated her feeling in therapy, and the session ended well. Although we agreed not to go back to marital therapy, the counselor pointed out 2 important things. 1) she told my wife she appeared to be resentful, both towards me and towards life in general. She can't look for happiness from the marriage, because that's not a healthy expectation, but she needs to be happy and bring that into the marriage. 2). The therapist pointed out that my W and I are in two different places regarding the R and that she needed to be respectful and compassionate of me and where I am. My W acknowledged that she saw huge changes, which she thought were going to be great for my relationship with my kids. She hasn't filed for divorce yet, but would like to do so in the near future and discuss with me about a parenting plan and dividing assets, etc. I told her I would be happy to sit down and talk about that. Last night was very relaxed around the house...she actually made me a plate of dinner and put it at my seat at the table. We ate dinner as a family and then watched the Voice together (felt very normal). I took the boys upstairs to my BR to watch the Sweet 16 game and she cam up, only to say goodnight to the boys. I think it's over, which really give me a starting point to GAL, redefine myself, work on me, and look towards the future (whether ultimately that is with or without her).

[Miler]

Again today, she was very pleasant. She actually sat down on the couch and talked to me about an issue she was having with our D14. She made me dinner and even told me good night (for the first time in 2 weeks). I am guessing she senses that I am moving on and feels it's ok to be more relaxed. I did walk into her BR with my S6 to ask about something she had promised him earlier in the day...she was looking at apartments in town on the Internet. So...continue onward and upward in GAL. I have the boys tomorrow for sports, while she goes out of town with D.

[Miler]

Alright, I need some veteran input. The last week I have acted as if I am moving on, and I validated all of her concerns about our marriage...just about agreeing with everything g except the D. Over the last two days, she has been very nice, been texting about the kids, starting conversation, etc. she said in counseling on Thursday that she has a lawyer and is looking for a job and an apartment, but has not filed yet. What are our thoughts here?

[igit]

Miller, what are the reasons why your wife says she wants a divorce. I know you mentioned her parents issues with infidelity and how she would never do that. With kids any woman in her right mind would want to work on the marriage or at least give you some warning about their unhappiness. I am not an expert or veteran but from reading your sitch it doesn't sound like you are telling us everything. I will tell you after being in a 15month crisis that if you are honest on this board and follow the DB principles early on ,it will give you the best chance to turn your ship around.

[Rick1963]

Hi Miller. You need to get a lawyer ASAP. I know that if you are new and hurting that is the last thing you may want to do. But if she is looking for work an apartment etc... She has plans. Plans that are not new...

I never ever thought I would be here. In my mind my M was solid. Well I was wrong..Agree to nothing. I was willing to give her everything to keep the family intact. This board and with the guidance of some good friends I made good choices.

The WAS will lie and manipulate. Believe none of what they say.

GAL my friend. GAL hard

[Rick1963]

Igit before me asked some good questions. I would leave them for larer to ponder. Think of of it as Maslows piramid. You cant counsel someone who is homeless and hungry. You must address those basic needs 1st.

[Miler]

Thanks...well, she says she has really felt unhappy since the first time we were separated in 2002. She has been a stay at home mom our entire 15 year marriage, and our last one just started school. For my work, we have moved to 3 different states in those 15 years, and she feels as though she just follows me around. She feels very controlled. I also have stated earlier that I have difficulty detaching from work, stay in my head a lot, and don't offer a ton of time for connection. We have a fairly steady cycle of highs and lows, and the lows can be demeaning and unappreciative towards both of us. Over the last two years, she feels like she has been depressed and lost who she is. Last year, she had a friend get divorced and it worked out well, and then her childhood friend moved back to town who has been divorced twice. In counseling, she admitted that the "catalyst" for her decision is when her favorite uncle died 2-3 weeks ago. She stated that life is too short to be unhappy, and she is finally standing up to the marriage to make a change for her happiness.

I have contacted a lawyer for initial counsel.

[Miler]

She also proceeded to show me a study that kids from a divorced home do better in the long run if both parents are "happy and healthy" rather than unloving and unhappy in the marriage. It's not like I didn't know she was unhappy, but I NEVER would have suspected that she would split up the family. I have never laid a hand on her, never cheated on her (emotionally or physically), and I am as sober as a 10 yo old.

The unhappiness did not come as a shock, the divorce did.

[igit]

Miler, I know what you are going through. My waw was stay at home mom since the kids came 13yrs ago. The best thing you can do is don't argue or disagree with her. She is trying to justify in her mind that a divorce will be good for everyone, you, the kids and her. She is in Lala land. The best thing you can do is GAL and let her go.I am not saying to give up. understand that you have to detach and let her see that you will be fine without her. Hapiness is an inside job, you are not responsible for her happiness. She is dilussional thinking the kids will be better etc...Be the strongest dad you can be for your kids. I am not saying that it will be easy. But you have to let her go and see for herself what it's like on her own. Don't help her with anything, treat it like you have excepted her decision and start living for you and your kids. You will come out of this a much better person. There are great db.coaches on this site that I would recommend you get in touch with as soon as you can

[Miler]

Thanks igit. Thanks the plan! Thanks for sharing and the support.

[Miler]

Well, she still hasn't filed. However, all the signs are there though.... She's looking for apartments, she's applied for 2 jobs, and she's called our realtor to talk about putting the worse on the market.

Interestingly, she is being nice, starting conversations, asking how my day went. She even slipped the other day and said it was so hard not letting me know that she could be making a mistake by walking away from the relationship. The started crying and then hung up the phone. I let her be...

I started running again, which wasn't particularly fun...I'm outta shape. I also started thinking about creative ways to better myself at work. I got some self-help books about working on me and will really use this time to not have to worry about a partner, and worry about improving me. I can't make her stay if she's miserable, but I can make her want the new and improved me.

[Sotto]

"but I can make her want the new and improved me."

Hi Miler, I thought your post above was great - apart from this comment above. No you can't "make her want" an improved you. But it is great to improve yourself for you - and your W may or may not notice and be drawn back towards you.

Equally she may not, and so the improvements are mainly for you - and perhaps a future lucky partner, depending on how things go...

T :-)

[igit]

Miler, hang in there and be the best dad you can be for your kids. 15 yrs of marriage is along time and it will take a big effort to detach and get to the point where you can and will just let her go. It's hard not to be angry and bitter at this stage. If you can bite your tongue and don't get drawn into any arguments. I know it seems unfair. Unfortunately your wife is not the woman you married right now. You can throw all the reasons why you married her out the window right now. When she cries or tells you she is having a hard time or doubt just agree with her non emotional and let her be.I have been in your shoes for 15months now and can honestly say I finally got what everyone was telling me to do. Detach and GAL. Your the prize. Hang in there.

[Miler]

Thanks ya'll. Im' slowly starting to feel myself get there. The letting go/detaching is hard...but REALLY important. It's like being a smoker for 15 years and just quitting one day. There is this whole detox that goes along with this separation...physically and emotionally.

Each morning before I go in to work now, I go for a 20 minute run, I shower, I try to meditate for 15 minutes, then I read for an hour (right now I am reading When Things Fall Apart). This morning when I came down to leave for work, she asked... Whatcha got going on today? I kept it short and said, clinic and then track practice with the kids. She said oh yeah...I've been noticing you've been going in to work a little later than usual this pat week. I responded with, yep, I'm taking some time for me, focusing on the things I need to deal with in my life to make me the best person and father I can be. She smiled, said, cool, and sort of agree. I immediately turned and said hope you have a good day. It felt good in that moment to admit to myself and the world, that I am working on me right now, and that's it. Trying to get centered and better myself.

[Zephyr]

Fantastic!!! Running is not fun, I am glad for you to be doing it. Read on!!! Keep posting. It makes me feel better when I do, I need somewhere to vent too.