Alpha - rollercoasting #3

[Starsky309]

I think it may be as simple as the terms "goals" vs. "signs." Many of the examples given in the book are things like "By next month, she will have initiated a phone call with me" type of things. or "He will stop using the 'D-word' in our conversations." I think those are fine as "demonstrable SIGNS that she/he is making a move back towards the marriage," and since DBing is all about "doing what works," we ARE to note which things are yielding results (and then keeping them up, and nixing things that don't).

But GOALS to me should be about OURSELVES, and things that WE can control.

[Cadet]

But GOALS to me should be about OURSELVES, and things that WE can control.

I so agree with this.

I really dont believe that MWD gives us advice to do something that we can not control.

Keep the focus on YOU!

[Jefe]

I agree with Starsky here on the goals vs signs thing. I definitely kept a log of "signs" for nothing more than to help myself along. Even the silly insignificant ones because when you put them all together you start to get a clear picture of how the things you are doing are working. However that should not be your focus. YOU should be your focus. Ultimately the changes I made in myself are what got my wife's attention.

[alpha99]

Thanks for the information Jefe. If you don't mind me asking, what were the changes you made in yourself?

[Jefe]

Just in how I talked to her and related to the world around me. I was critical of everything she did. Hell, I was critical of everything anyone did. When I learned to respond to her in love no matter what she did, to have nothing to say about anything (except when she crossed my boundaries even then, I responded in love) she started paying more attention. Oh, and a lot of prayer. But it totally different for everyone.

A lot of prodigals feel like they are slowly drowning while everyone watches on. Not that this excuses their behavior, because they can certainly make better choices of how they deal with things, but it does attempt to explain their behavior. They want to make damn sure they are not jumping back into the deep end with concrete shoes again. That's why the changes in us standers is so important.

[alpha99]

I have just been reading through the thread on 180s and it occurred to me that I am managing to do a pretty big one right now. Ever since our split W has been saying that she needed time and space. I have never really given it to her. Because of the kids I was seeing her every day. I tried different things but in general I don't think what I needed to do had sunk in. Last week I did give her some space, really cut down on initiating contact. Due to the problems of the last few days, even though I miss my children terribly, I am respecting her wishes, waiting for her to calm down, and not really getting in touch at all where possible.

I know this is all part of LRT but it is a pretty big turnaround for me. I did contact her once today as I described before, just because it was over our S's hospital appointment. Other than that though I have stepped right back. It has been hard. There are times when it is easy to dream up a reason to contact her. Our S likes all things space (something encouraged by me). There is a TV show on soon he would like. I was going to contact W to tell her as he would really love it. But I haven't. It will be passed S's bed time anyway when it comes on. If I'm really honest it would have just been a silly excuse to contact her. But I didn't. Although it has taken a really bad episode from a few days ago, I am happy that I am getting a lot better at being able to deal with all of this. There will no doubt be times I struggle in the future, particularly if W files for D or there is a legal struggle over kids (both things I don't want) but at the moment I feel like if I can handle not seeing my absolutely beautiful kids that I love more than anything in the world every day (horrible but I'm doing it) then I can handle anything this life has to throw at me.

[alpha99]

Just in how I talked to her and related to the world around me. I was critical of everything she did. Hell, I was critical of everything anyone did. When I learned to respond to her in love no matter what she did, to have nothing to say about anything (except when she crossed my boundaries even then, I responded in love) she started paying more attention. Oh, and a lot of prayer. But it totally different for everyone.

Thanks for replying so quickly Jefe. Your words ring home here. I was very critical of an awful lot of things my W did, and as has been pointed out to me by others, almost everything everyone I ever met and knew did/was doing.

My W says I will never change. I think if we blow away all the 'I love you but...' and 'I don't find you attractive anymore' stuff, what is really at the bottom of my sitch is that my W just really, really, really got fed up with me calling her names when she did something wrong (in my eyes) and fed up me treating her badly (taking her for granted etc) when she failed to live up to my (ridiculous) expectations.

Reading through some of your earlier threads has showed me that there is a path to getting through to the other side with your marriage intact. It requires patience, persistence, and real genuine change in myself. I just need to make these changes in myself that will make me a better person for MYSELF, for people I encounter and my life in general, and of course if my W 'still has her eyes open' as MWD puts it, then so much the better and we may get somewhere.

[Jefe]

Man, if I had a dollar for every single time my wife said I don't love you, we're never going to get back together, etc...

Honestly, you can't even worry if she's noticing your changes, just change you for you. She'll notice.

[alpha99]

Man, if I had a dollar for every single time my wife said I don't love you, we're never going to get back together, etc...

Honestly, you can't even worry if she's noticing your changes, just change you for you. She'll notice.

Given how things are working out for you right now, this feels me with enormous hope for the future of my own M. My changes are going to be for ME! Thanks Jefe.

[alpha99]

Well, my W has just called (6.50am).

Since she bought a new phone her signal is pretty bad so it was sometimes hard to hear what she was saying.

Anyway, the gist of the conversation was she rang me up to see if I wanted to go with her and the kids for an evening meal tomorrow. Well, of course I do.

She said she doesn't trust me at the moment due to some things that happened whilst son was in hospital. Just to recap, I broke down due to the stress of seeing my son in hospital, being with my W all day long, and we went into a small private room and I did the crying/begging/pleading etc. When this (obviously, I know) didn't work, I did say I would be better off dead than not being able to see my children all the time. I threatened to expose her A (she works in the same hospital)...and I did say I was going to do 'something stupid'. It wasn't a serious claim, more an act of desperation. W has chosen not to see it that way. From that, it led my W to contact the school to stop them letting out my daughter to me that day (she had originally asked me to pick D up) and we had a minor struggle over D in the playground, had to speak to the school, who now know we're separated.

She says that she feels bad that she hasn't allowed me to see the children over the last few days but what I did, or rather what I said I was going to do (hurt/kill myself), is unforgivable. I just stayed silent rather than try to justify anything or argue back to her. She said 'can't you speak? I've got to go and get the children ready.' So I just went back to talking about the meal out tomorrow.

She put S on the phone for a moment (D was getting ready upstairs apparently). We spoke briefly and he told me that he loves me. I filled up with tears. I heard him ask W whether daddy would be taking him to school today. She said, probably not, we'll probably get the bus.

I cried for a minute or two after putting the phone down. I am stronger now and these feelings last for a less amounts of time but wow, there is nothing as heartbreaking as knowing all your family are together somewhere else living their lives and you can't be with them. I do love my W, despite everything that's happening, and hearing my son's voice just reminded me (as if I needed reminding) that the love I have for my children is the greatest force in my life. I miss them so much. I know this situation isn't permanent. I do need to be as big a part of their life as I can - whatever happens R wise.

So overall, there are some positives to take from this. W hasn't completely shut the door on me seeing the kids. She doesn't appear to have followed through on MIL's threats of restricting me seeing the kids and going to a solicitor about it (could be wrong here, who knows). She appears to have had some time to calm down and feels bad about how she is reacting. That's the first time she has shown any sort of guilt over anything since we split.

Of course the downside is she is very angry with me, and she doesn't trust me to take the children out on my own. At least we get to go out together as a family, which I know the kids will love, and of course I will enjoy too.

It goes without saying that this is a crucial outing for me. I need to show my W that I am in control, enjoy the time out with my kids, not get needy/angry etc. I need to just enjoy the time for what it is - time with my family as a family.

On a side note: I'm positive W would have keys now for new place. Once she's settled in she won't be so reliant on her parents. At this point if I get things right I think over time there will be a chance to work things out. A few days of not being around has led her to call me. I've no doubt the kids miss me and ask for me. I need to show her happiness, a positive attitude, contentment, and a new side to me.