My wife (39) and I (41) have been in martial struggles for quite a while now, since November 2011 that she told me that she was unhappy and ‘had one foot out the door’. Back then I thought that this was a phase and didn’t have a clue that there were real problems in our marriage. We have been married for 17 years this spring, started dating 23+ years ago with a couple of break ups when I went away to college 20+ years ago and now we have two boys 10 & 13. Wife stayed at home and work consulting during the younger years to keep them out of daycare. Once the children were in school, Wife went back to work and her career has blossomed. Over the years, we stopped putting each other first (BOTH OF US). Kids, careers, Coaching the kids sports, everything else came first. I realized how little I was cherishing her, how little I was showing her that she was the most important person in my life.
About 3 years ago, we went to IC & MC to try to figure out what was wrong and we ended it smiles and happy…or so I thought.. After a year I got more of the unhappiness and wanting to leave talks. I did the normal ‘re-energized husband’ route and focused ALL of my efforts on the family and on her. I did all of the chores, blah-blah-blah. Little did I know the damage I was doing.  I started to see IC again, but I kept focusing on her. It wasn’t until about 6 months ago, on my own that I really started digging into my own self and realizing how undesirable I had really become. A week, clingy, needy, homebody that catered, begged, pouted and cried. Our sex life is non-existent, we went from a couple of times a week to now…once in the last 8 months and going on twice in the last year. I stopped seeing my IC, she was not helping me, let alone my marriage. This has affected me greatly. That and not having my best friend even want to talk to me anymore was crippling me.
My wife had pulled away the more I pushed and tried to hold on. I started to realize how much my behavior was blame for some of this. I started reading everything I could (lots of good and lots of really bad information out there). It took me a long time to dig myself out of this deep hole that I was in. grumpy, grouchy, get upset all the time. I have seen how poisonous this behavior was. I had seen how my negativity had begun to ruin my life and my family. I started to accept what I had become and really adopted a positive mental attitude. Started to work less, focus on me. Many of the tools in the DivorceRemedy book I had kinda stumbled on myself…pulling back, validating, listening. These were reinforced with the book once I finally found this website. I have adopted some 180’s & GAL (Listen – really listen when W speaks, Thanking her / showing appreciation for little things, finish projects when I start, trying to be more honest with myself and thus others about my desires/wants, stop being a perfectionist, stop trying to control outcomes, giving her space, trying to do less for her, started guitar lessons, started back exercising lots and swimming a couple times a week, joined a gaming group once-twice a month). She has been working longer hours and is 1.5 years into going back to get her bachelor’s degree so she has been very busy at home and in her office. I have been trying to Detach myself. This was not easy. But I’ve been moderately successful and not trying to solve her problems, just listen. Or when she had a bad day, not react. If she was fighting with the kids, try to support her position instead of showing any signs of dissent or disagreement. Make sure I didn’t show here if I was upset about something…it was held in and cried out later.
I thought things were actually getting better. She was talking to me about daily stuff, normal stuff. She was acting more comfortable around me asked me for help with things. Was doing little things for me, buying me silly gifts…even an awesome Xmas present (first REAL gift I had gotten from here in years). She wasn’t Cringing when I would walk past her. She started to hold me in bed. Joking with me. Kissing me. Hugging me. We even made love at the end of January…over six months since the last time. I had started feeling wanted again…it had been years since I felt that way. These were many of my ‘relationship goals’ that I had set so it has been felt very positive. Last night we were talking in the kitchen and she opened up kinda out of nowhere (said, I know you have wanted to talk, so…) about how she is not sure of who she really is and how she doesn’t like a lot of what she sees in herself. She said that she is upset that we live so far away from her family and that she is disappointed in herself that she never really forged any real friendships were we live and let die those other friendships she once had. She was upset that she never got involved in any sort of politics, community stuff or school boards (stuff she thought about when she was younger). She said that she felt very constrained that we were too close sometimes and she never got a chance to be her own person when she was younger (2 years away at college was all). We share everything. She even mentioned joint email account and how she never was financially independent. I know that she had held onto resentment from past issues (we’d talked before in MC about how upset that she felt she was forced into signing papers for my Vasectomy and into house renovation instead of moving). She is also said that she has had space issues with me and the kids. In the past she has said that she hates the way she looks (her exact word was ‘disgusting’ but she we has been overweight, although we have been going to the gym together and separate and eating better – losing weight and feeling healthier)...i have never seen the ugly that she professes.
The entire time I tried to Validate her talking, no crying, no pushing for information she didn’t want to give. I know it wasn’t perfect with some of my responses or questions, but it was by far my best attempt. At the end she said that I should not worry about it, that it was nothing and that she is trying to work things out. I did ask about to see if it would be worth it for her to go and speak with a councilor ( I found one that is much better solution orientated and I went to see him last week) and she said it probably wasn’t worth it. I am not sure if this is a good sign that she is starting to leave the fog or if this is just another, bigger cavern that we are entering in together. I don’t want to show her how much it hurt me to think that maybe things aren’t going well after all.
I have been trying to hold onto this for so long, but I needed to vent. Needed to share with someone, cause I cannot lay my fear and sadness on her feet. Clearly I am not fully detached and am still trying to figure out how to completely drop the rope. I have felt so alone for so long that It is not hard to slip back into the Pursuer Mode when W has shown appreciation for the things i do and positive affectionate behavior towards me. Baby Steps.
Thanks all for listening / reading. i know that i've learned so much from you all already over the last several months from reading your insightful posts and heartfelt testimonies.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Last couple of days I have been trying to be upbeat. Playing – homeworking with the kids, trying to focus better at work (this has been an enormous problem for me over this troubled time at home – fortunately my employers have been very understanding that ‘trouble at home’ means that I am not 100% at work) and focusing on some more goals for me. I am having trouble figuring out more things that I can do outside of the house. Nothing is grabbing me…will keep looking. I know I need to make new friends myself and do new things, this is really not natural for me…taking chances means chance of failure (perfectionist in me rearing it ugly head).
Wife has been trying to pacify me with obligatory hugs or kisses in the morning and that is about it for the day for any affection. It is terrible when I get warmer hugs from the neighborhood mom’s whenever we meet. This might be the hardest part of the living together – alone situation….lack of affection that I desire more than anything else in the world. In the past couple of years, the wife said that she is having personal space issues with me and the kids, as a response for the lack of closeness. It is terrible that I see her giving more affection to the dog than she is willing to share with me. She had said that she is trying.
On a odd note, I have been trying to be more assertive with things that I want. Over the last couple of years I have been so afraid of making her mad by asking for things that I’ve been walking on eggshells and keeping to myself. I know that needs to change so I’ve been trying. Last week when W asked what we should do for dinner, I told her that I’d like BLT’s and if she could make some Leek and Potato soup. She actually went to the store to buy the ingredients and made the soup for dinner. Crazy (I still made the sandwiches, but holy crap she hasn’t made a meal for me in years). Another day last week she said that she was stopping at the grocery store if I needed anything (I had just been the night before to do Big / weekly shopping) and told her that I forget pears…if she couple pick up some bartlet pears for me. When I got home there were none in the fridge so I didn’t say anything I sort of got disappointed in my head. She came out of the office and told me that she couldn’t find any bartlet pears and that she went to three different stores to find them but couldn’t find them. She ended up buying 3 different kinds of pears for me to try instead. It turns out that I screwed up and actually wanted Anjou Pears and was mistaken. WOW. I was soo happy that she went through all of that effort that I couldn’t hold back my excitement with thank you’s and the like.
One more, last night shortly after dinner, I went into the office where she was working on homework…and said ‘I know you are busy and understand how much your homework takes up your time, But I would like very much if you would join me upstairs and have sex with me.” She looked like she was going to say no, and instead said ok. Without too much detail, I tried to change up the ‘normal’ but there was too much resistance to that from her. So afterwards while we were still in the room, I asked her if she would like me to show her some basics that I’ve been learning with my guitar. She was rather excited to try, so we spent 10 minutes with that instead of being awkward and not knowing what to say or do after being intimate.
But then this morning, it was same cold wife when it was time to go. SOOOO confused. I need to temper my expectations, I know I have so very far to go with me and with my marriage. She is not all here and maybe never will. I just haven’t been able to accept that. it is very hard when I sleep 18” from her and have so much together. I keep telling myself that my wife is not mine to lose, that I will be just fine if we get divorced (she has never even used the word in 3+ years of discussions) but I do not want to lose my children or my friend.
I have been trouble accepting what I've been seeing lately...I cannot tell if what is going g on is real or some kind of dream. Wife has been slowly coming back to nice-land and it has been awesome. Compliments, asking & listening to responses instead of asking for opinion then arguing with it it outright, backing me up with the kids, sitting down and talking with me just to talk instead of only asking questions for direct answers only. Other items I've seen from her...talking about future, she has said she wants to make new memories, has expressed looking forward to vacations, future plans we've talked about, finishing the basement project and more. We have even had sex three times in the last week (doubling the total for the last 12 months). Wife has even left her phone at home when we've gone out for errands a couple of times...where in last couple of years has been unheard of to do this. I continue to keep positive at all times. I am continuing to try to keep a mindset of improving how people respect me including being more assertive and outspoken fo4 what I want instead of being passive and week. I am continuing going to the gym...I have really taken notice at how much better shape I am in(others have noticed...including my wife). While I am really enjoying the attention and loving behavior from wife...I remain a bit sceptical ... Don't want to feel like a chump if this progressive behavior is something different than what I am seeing at face value. I am sure she is confused... Maybe more than me I am reassuring myself that this could be my new wife and it excites me but I cannot allow myself to backslide or to try to see ulterior motives if there are any. We go on vacation next week and we are both looking forward to fishing, kayaking and reading. I've even scheduled a short trip to the glades while in florida, I really want to go on a fan boat through the swamps. Wife and boys excited about it too.
My wife left almost a month and a half ago, she is delusional in thinking, she still talks about us going to Disney World as a "family" and other things like that. It's my sons birthday tomorrow, I am having my folks over and some other family members. I didn't invite her (it's my night with the kids), but she threw a stink and said "For the time being, your family is MY family and I want to be there". I relented, simply because it would effect my son.
WAW's/WW's are only sane in their own mind.
Me: 38 W: 32 S10 D6 T: 10 (02/2004) M: 7 (12/2007) Separation 02/2015 OM confirmed 01/2015, D mentioned 12/2014 D finalized 9/2016
Thanks Eye! I need to keep focusing on my kids and myself. I need to not keep buying tickets for the rollercoaster ride. Reality is I have really been enjoying our time together over last couple of months and I miss that more than anything in the world...Uugh!
Why can I not just admit that my wife is already 'gone' and that all I see is just a show for pacifying me until whatever condition is met for her to actually leave.
I keep seeing things that may or not be evidence or her being gone. I haveaintainwd trust in her time will tell if that trust is a mistake or not.
I've read women's posts across the webs who describe her behavior too a tee who have never dreamed of leaving, but cannot get past previous hurts or let go of resentment. and I keep stepping in [censored] making it worse for us.
Last night i was going down the stairs and wife was comming up. she sat down and started crying. i sat beside her and inquired into the tears. She started to apologize for 'everything' then specifically all of the extra burden that her schooling has created for me.
I told her that there was no reason to be sorry, that i knew exactly what we were getting into when she asked to go back to school. I remember how hard college was for me, tho that was going on 20 years ago. She works full time and is working towards here BA 1/2 time. i have had to pick up 'the slack' around the house.
I feel like I messed up, to avoid some kind of confrontation about her not doing enough around the house. I have been lately diverting a bunch of the housework to the boys...dishes sometimes, folding thier own laundry, cleaning thier bathroom, some dusting, but a vast majority of the rest is on me (i did stop doing her laundry 3 months ago).
I feel like i am starting to go nuts. My confidence is rapidly unraveling...how the path that i've been on is ALL WRONG and i am barreling towards a disaster.
Went home for lunch earlier than normal today (got to work quite a bit early, so was starving). I just sat there barely eating even tho i was hungry, wallowing. 1/2 way through wife called 'just to check in' and give me her account of her morning so far and what her plans for the day were. i cried for 15 minutes after.
I just keep focusing on what could possibly happen with us in the future, instead of trying to focus on ME and Right Now.
I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction.
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Yesterday started off rough ... Just swirling with insecurity and doubt. I went back to work and refocussed and started kicking some butt. Last night went to the high school for the district music festival... S13 plays trombone. I enjoyed myself. Got home put boys to bed, watched some TV and went to bed. Wife was joking and texting me during the music festival about different goingß on there and it was hard to keep the laughter down during the concert.
These are two of the biggest little things that I will miss the most if things fall apart (putting my boys to bed, the spending silly time together watching dumb tv & the ability for us to make fun out of nothing).
Friday is here. Great.time getting ready for Florida... It is snowing here in the Midwest so I am dying for 80's weather. Everyone seems in high spirit's so wish me luck on having a good time this week with the in laws!
Day 2 of family trip. Overall fun car ride...16 hours total yesterday with stops and 11 hours today. Lots of talking about just about everything you can imagine, even played the state licence plate game and we had fun together with it (39 is not bad BTW). Although she was working on homework, wife was involved with the travel directions, stop locaations, traffic searches, etc. I am going to go fishing tomorrow with the boys. If she wants to come I will embrace it and have fun no matter what. Think we are going to try some kayaking.
Believe me, I understand what you are going through, heck, most of us do. It's impossible to plan a future when one major decision is left to someone else. Often times, I find myself feeling like I am tumbling down a hole, doing everything I can to grab ahold of the walls to stop the drop.
Read your books, read the links, detach.
Me: 38 W: 32 S10 D6 T: 10 (02/2004) M: 7 (12/2007) Separation 02/2015 OM confirmed 01/2015, D mentioned 12/2014 D finalized 9/2016
Hi hwkies, You sound like you are doing great. Congratulations on the GAL activities and confidence building, 180s and detaching. It's very very hard. I know it's easy for me to say- but hang tight. They are the ones lost in the fog. Have you read the lighthouse story on cadets welcome post? I re read that frequently and tell myself to be stable. My wayward husband is in an EA which makes things tough. But like your waw he states delusional future plans- such as remaining living together as he cares about me.. You wonder how this intelligent being you've been in love with is coming out with all this BS and do they actually believe it themselves.
We all have those days where we feel like it's hopeless, I'm having one of those today myself. BUT the process works, and it seems like you get some results. I would love to have sex with my H or him to grab my hand or even sleep in the same bed as me. Hang tight, you've got this
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
Thank you cherry. I've read all those links multiple times, and as far ad doing good - i certainly feel better about myself and don't cry myself to sleep every night anymore...so that is a good thing. For my marriage I am stick in a state of limbo for quite a while, some great days and some soul crushing ones.
I will never understand the mind of a was...how any would leave behind the one that they love. I understand have needs not met...because that is where my grumpiness really started... Working my backside off and not being appreciated...not even being recognised to the point I would get PO'd. I even remember thinking why should I do x if you aren't doing y. I have the tools now to deal with these situations...I wish I would have understood my wife earlier. Worse yet, think of how far behind us they are at understanding each other...this is indeed a process. I am an engineer and everything I do is solving problems and reducing uncertainty from a design or situation... DB definitely is a change of mentality.
Sandi, I have been trying to detach from my wife. It has taken me years to ralize how unhappy I was with who I had become as a codependent person who relied upon a woman to make me happy. My wife had enough of my grumpiness, and all the rest, checked out and walked away without leaving. I know I was not solely respossible for the strained marriage (she has addmitted as much). Our marriage had lots of flaws and dysfunctions but I know the biggest issue from my side that I've not addressed was being able to treat myself with respect and choose to be happy. Some equate this to detaching my emotional reliance on my wifes affection and approval...i just wrote it as my trying to drop the rope. The problem I've had is really trying to accept that my wife that I've loved for over 20 years does not love me anymore and potentially will never truly love me again...not as a spouse and lover anyway. Also tryiing to come to terms with my flaw of being a controlling, perfectionists has caused some trouble.
At the end of the day, I have been trying to move my life forward and be happy...but I've been week and sad and longing for signs of love and I know o need to do a better job of letting go.
I am, as I type, watching the sun set over the gulf of mexico with a smile on my face. It would be better with a woman in my arms...but that just isn't in the cards today.
Today is beautiful. I am watching the boys swim. Think I am going to take the kayak for a paddle soon. We will see if wife goes...then great, else I will go myself. It was fun the other day. Tonight we are going out with aunts / uncles and some old acquaintance s for drinks and dancing... Will see how that goes. Something that strikes me is the extended family . Wife has a huge family (22 blood aunts/uncles plus scores of spouses and cousins) that I've grown close to in the last couple plus decades. Gone on trips with uncles and cousins...gone to dinners /breweries/wineries with aunts and cousins. They are as much my family as my mom and dads families (grew up not that close to them, so when I started coming around the wife's family seamed so naturally close together that I took to them and they to me). Father in law treats me as a son (they lost only son at age 9 to a tragic accident). Stop focusing on this and get out to have some fun. Am going swimming with boys. ...maybe take them fishing later.
Great day today... Took the family to the beach, went with each of the boys on the lakes to show them how to kayak, had nice pizza dinner shipped in from chicago so the snow-bird in laws and wife's aunt/uncle could have some good pizza. We had cake for older sons birthday.
One weird, troubling thing...we were at lunch and a song came one from vertical horizon...'he is everything'. I thought it was a different song at first and said ooh I really like this one. Wife said really...have you ever listened to the lyrics...it is about the American plight. I looked up the lyrics when I got home...it is the WAW anthem. She is certainly aware of what is going on in our marriage. I have seen What would appear to be great strides towards a better relationship between us...I just cannot figure out if she is just pretending to keep our family together fo4 the sake of the children, to preserve our friendship in hopes of something better, waiting ro finish school and bold, or just protecting herself right now until something better comes along. What a way to live. The last 4 months I have really sat down to try to figure if I can do this on my own. Financially feasible. Logistics feasible...can I deal with not tucking my children in every night. Can I take not hearing my wife snore in her sleep. Can I wake up in the morning and function in an empty house, going to a job I don't want to go to to support a family that is not there any more. I want to screen...but in need to appear strong for now...thank you for letting me vent. I woke up at 3 am last night and wanted so much to hold my wife just 12" away from me...I did not want to wake her...but all I wanted was to hold her close and for her to hold me...to make me feel wanted. Enough melodrama for today... Uugh. Tomorrow is an action filled day. We are going to the everglades for a fan boat tour and some hiking...I can't wait for that.
One weird, troubling thing...we were at lunch and a song came one from vertical horizon...'he is everything'. I thought it was a different song at first and said ooh I really like this one. Wife said really...have you ever listened to the lyrics...it is about the American plight
So I stepped in a land mine today. Wife was taking some selfie of herself while at the beach. Saw that she found the one she liked and I gathered that she texted it. I asked as calmly as I could who she was sending those pics to and she said 'you, who else would I be sending these to.' Then said I was so weird. I just had to laugh out loud. She had indeed sent it to my phone and it arrived while we were talking. AWKWARD!!!
You sound like you are enjoying your break- I'm glad it's doing you some good. Lee up the positivity. That's a good sign surely that W was sending you pictures. I know how you feel about when you seem to get along you are curious as to why, and with regards to the friend thing- that's exactly how I feel with my H. Wether he is being friendly and wants to remain good friends so he knows where I am as like a back up
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
Thx cherry. I Think the positivity and pleasantness is a great thing... Makes me easier to be around. I've noticed it at work, at home at restaurants / stores on the street, wherever...a little eye contact a smile and smalltalk. Especially how people respond and are more pleasant and open back. One of my must 180's.
Sometimes I just want to screen. I see things like wife approaching me to give a hug or hold my arm while we are walking...then snap pulls away instantly just before as if I am leper or I am a porcupine.
Aargh. I keep having conversations in my head that somehow will make me feel better but I know it will just make our marriage worse. I don't know how to clear my aire from the thoughts that maybe she is having an affair whether emotional or otherwise. I've never had proof in the slimmest, just a Whiff of suspicion that makes me feel uneasy. It could even be that she already had one that failed and she is starting to come around. I just don't know. I have no idea if this is something that I breach the subject. I just know that I don't want to keepbramblind down a road putting my heart at risk for more disappointment and hurt where she could be not ever had an affair and she is just not ready to come back to our marriage like that.
Things she has said to me in the last couple of weeks ... She loves my friendship. She thinks I am an amazing father. She appreciated all that I do for our family. She even says I love you...but then she will still cringe if I mention how a specific dress looks on her...I've been focusing on the changes in me to make me a better man for me. Letting her go, that is a struggle.
Last leg of the family vacation. Wife pumped the gas and is driving...she offered and I accepted. Pretty tired after 2 day drive. One awesome Part of the long drive down to Florida and back is it gave me a chance to show more openness in conversation and general more playful and fun attitude the entire trip. No pouting or groaning about anything. She was even testing me on this a couple of times during the trip. I feel like I passed those tests with my reactions...even if it was something I didn't agree with...responded with validation and my own feeling ...agree to disagree style. We are almost to pick up the dog from the sitter, then homw . let's see how vacation wife translates to every day wife
I have had a lot of time to think and I do not believe my wife is back. The more I think about it...the less likely she is coming out of the WAW fog. Instead I think I am being manipulated. I feel like a dumby. Uugh. She presents crumbs of affection with one hand then pushes me away with the other. I need to double down on my changes for me. GAL gets pretty cloudy comming up for next two months with soccer season. I coach s10 team already and s13 coach has quit so somehow I got volunteered for his team too. Busy weeks ahead. Wife actually said she would help with the middle school kids if I needed. Don't know how that would go...could be fun or not. I will see how the first practice goes on Wednesday.
hmkies, I can relate to how you feel about the affair. Cadet is right! I should have noticed the signs a long time ago. My W read lots of romance novels to start. Than I noticed a picture on her phone of a girl and a cowboy kissing in a barn. She put this as her profile picture on things. It made me feel weird. Like she was wanting to be that woman. I asked about it and she said she just liked the picture. Whatever! I'm no expert, but it is tough to compete with fantasies!!
Me:44 EXW 44 Wonderful Children M11, T14 BD 6/14 OM Confirmed Divorce Final 2/25/16 "It works if you work it!"
She might be having an affair with a fictional character only in her head. Does she read romance novels?
Some, I do sometimes feel like I am being compared with Jamie Frazer from the outlander series...she is 8000 pages into that one, book 9....I'm only on book 2 (I work on house, etc and don't get much time to read).
Just got a few texts from her saying (in regards to me waking up for a scared 10 year old from nightmares, had to sing him to sleep like I used to every night when he was smaller - both of them actually. Sweet baby James is awesome night-night song)
Wife: Thank you so much for taking care of (s10) last night. I didn't even hear him. You are an amazing father.
Me: Thank you (wife)! Those boys mean so much to me.
Wife: I know they do. We are so lucky to have you.
So confusing because a good father is not good enough. Good husband is not even good enough.
I don't understand your post. "Why is this different"
What do you mean by that? Does it mean that he would care for her in the hospital and it would not make any difference in her WW mindset?
It is in reference to him being a good father or husband. He feels that is not good enough.
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: hwkies
Wife: Thank you so much for taking care of (s10) last night. I didn't even hear him. You are an amazing father.
Me: Thank you (wife)! Those boys mean so much to me.
Wife: I know they do. We are so lucky to have you.
So confusing because a good father is not good enough. Good husband is not even good enough.
What makes you think this is about YOU?
If a brick fell off a wall and hit her in the head, and she was unconscious in the hospital, what would you do?
Why is this different?
I guess my point is if our spouses were in a coma in the hospital, what would we do? Is it different if they died? I understand that they appear in front of us and seem to be a shell of the person that they once were, they do not appear dead or mangled.
But personally - no matter what they are doing - I would be a good father. And if my wife wanted nothing to do with me I would love her enough to "Let GO" even though that is not what I wanted.
I am not sure I understand. I appreciate your insight and am glad you have offered assistamce to me. Are you saying that her situation is out of my hands and No matter what us going on with her side I should just continue to do what i am doing? not try to figure out if there is an emotional or physical affair that I am dealing with? Just keep on with my improvements for my own sake...I am not averse to me doing that at all. I've been putting in the effort to figure out my root flaws and see what I can do to fix them including reading, experimenting with behaviors and seeing IC for bouncing my thoughts and feelings. I've also engaged close friend I. Some convoys for both our sakes. To answer your question, As my wife and partner, I would still try to care for her With every shred of my life, every resource that is available. I would do the same for my children or my brothers, or anyone in my family. That is who I believe I am. Now if she is no longer my wife or has no desire to be a part of that family, if she is willing to reject what I am willing to offer her and to leave, I would still be concerned. I would be upset. Would I give everything that I have to support her after she left...I don't know. Maybe I still would. I've not thought about what I would do in that case.
A number of years ago my youngest brother came to me, hat in hand and asked for a loan. He said for college. I declined him a loan (he had stolen a credit card from me a year before so I would not give him money). He told me that no body would help him, mom and Dad could not. I said I would outright pay for it if he kept up his grades. I went down to the college, sat with him in councillors office, went back with him for placement tests. Went back to enroll him, Bought books, etc. I paid for everytiing directly. At midterm i asked him for his grade summary. He would not give it. I ended up sweet talking the nice young lady at the Registrars office to get his grade report directly. He had withdrawn from all of his classes after a week. I am sure he retirned the books as well. It was a betrayal I've never felt before. He has never apologized. I still do not consider him a part of my family. I send a note on his birthday and speak with him at Christmas. That is it. It hurts me still today nearly 13 years later. If he were to apologize to me, and mean it I would take him back into my life and embrace him like one of my other two brothers. Old grudges vs. Absolute and utter betrayal of faith and trust from someone you lov3 like that would be hard without some real repentance from them. I've never told any of my family of my brothers deception, I have warned them to never give him Money. That feeling of betrayal is what is welling in my stomach when I think that my wife could possibly be having an affair...now the difference between that and her hurting and needing assistance is huge.
Are you saying that her situation is out of my hands and No matter what us going on with her side I should just continue to do what i am doing? not try to figure out if there is an emotional or physical affair that I am dealing with? Just keep on with my improvements for my own sake
YES! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am not saying not to have boundaries. YES - you need those for your own protection. I perfectly understand the giving and giving part too.
You need to protect yourself, and not be taken advantage of, just like the lesson you learned with your brother.
You need to know that - people lie! They can not always be trusted.
And with the first bit of advice that I give you Detach. Believe NONE of what they say and half of what they do.
WHY - cause in all likely hood their is some lying going on.
I have read some great information on boundaries, I just do not know how to implement them. It feels like when I say them in my head I am just trying to control the wife. I have been practicing with boundaries with the boys and enforcement is pretty easy with them. Now to translate that to a grown, willful woman. She has spoken about my behaviors in the past (passive aggressive sulky, clingy), as being very controlling. She was spot on then. I need to be cautious at how my mindset is for establishing boundaries, especially something that would be impossible to track or enforce.
Her telephone has a biometric lock because of HIPA concerns where if she lost her phone her hospital has the right to whipe it clean. She has her own email accounts that I cannot access. I never cares because I have always placed a trust in her. She has male friends (mostly all are male actually) and it has always been that way. I never had a reason to mistrust. I know that was not good to have no boundaries set up. We have both been like that. I have female friends who I've gone out for drinks - dinner with. Even during then darkest times I've never dreamed of acting against my vows with my wife. She new it. I remember once her sister got mad that wife was telling a story about. Trip I took to phoenix. My brothers and I went to a bar to watch a full gambit of football games. I told her about a woman who we pal'd around with the whole day. We had fun and were mutually enjoying each others company. Her sister asked her. Weren't you concerned about me doing something untoward. Wife and my other brothers wife (I've known for 25,years) both laughed and said (hwkies) are you serious. They both had trust that I would never betray my wife like that. I know now that was improper not to have boundaries set up even if there was no chance for anything to happen.
I just Need to figure out how to do this correctly. Time to reread those posts.
Spent some time last night between making dinner / groceries / errands thinking and doing some research about what it would take to actually get a divorce. Something I would absolutely have to be willing to embark upon to protect myself if it came to that OR if that is ultimately what wife is after. There is so much there that I am amazed people advocate that it is too easy. Have to be ready to split from wife. Have to be ready to separate kids from one or other spouse. Have to be ready for the Selling (likely short sale) of house. Splitting assets, retiremrnt accounts. I would be an absolute destruction of our current life. I understand that this is not entirelyna bad thing...we as dB's are prepping for this already (and certainly i feel way more empowered in my ability to look at this sort of things more rationally) it is still very difficult to imagine waking up alone every day in a completely different life.
After all this I went to grocery store and found myself bawling in the middle I'd the grocery isle when I saw a couple of items that I used to buy the wife to make her special deserts.
I had written my wife a letter a year or so ago (ya I used to write all sorts of dobby letters during this crisis). One if the things i told her was that when she hold me at bed time it made me feel wanted and how great it was (paraphrasing). Since she has actually done this from time to time. Last night wife held my hand with one of hers ASN held my arm with the o her until she fell asleep. It was everthing i could do to hold the tears back...i didn't let on how very much I needed that comfort last night..it just happened.
Oh ya I'm doing an great job detaching...banner day of letting go
It seems to happen to us all from time to time, just as we think we are coping and getting on with things something seems to trip us up and we get emotional. Hang in there though, it's just one day. Keep the faith. You'll be in my prayers
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
i need to take a step back, deep breath and REALLY focus on me for a bit. Funny, as im typing this, i got an email from bosses with a quarterly bonus statement. A couple of weeks ago, i had actually gone in and asked my boss not to consider me for the bonus because i did not feel like my efforts over the last umpteen months warrented it (i am typing this all at work, if you get my drift). they told me that despite all of that they felt that i still believed that my work was worth it and boom there it is. I am going to move that money right away and spend it on me. I have my eye on some seats for the foo-fighters concert comming up in chicago. i will buy two tickets and see who i can get to go with me. the rest, i am puttin that money aside for a trip to ireland (something i've ALWAYS wanted to do. actually i spoke to wife for our 15th anniversary and asked if she wanted to go then, almost 2 years ago, she said no even though i know she too has ALWAYS wanted to go...she never gave a good enough reason). i will go by myself if i have to, i want to go.
i want to go get a drink, it has to be 5 o'clock somewhere.
Last edited by Cadet; 04/08/1507:26 PM. Reason: edit as per user request
THEN what do i do? Confront, expose, hide what i know and allow more BS to happen? I know i am all over the map the last couple of days, i feel like i am comming out of my own fog.
i need to take a step back, deep breath and REALLY focus on me for a bit.
You have given yourself exactly the advice I was going to say.
Most of what i write here are the emotions i am feeling at that moment, the thoughts that i need to get out, to help me sort. i've never been a journaller, but i am starting to see the value. it gives me some relief to know that there are folks who understand what i am thinking and what i am going through. it gives me strengh to see those who have completely gone through this with whatever result and are better off for it. I appreciate every response, whether it is advice, hi, support, whatever!!! i have not spoken about my marital problems with anyone of my piers or family. this is me. my visits with the IC have been helpful, but i cannot affort weekly or biweekly sessions, so this forum and the reading have been so helpful it is unbelievable. I will keep posting here so i can keep not-stalling on thoughts, which is something that i've done my whole life. it is like a bad record over and over in my head, at least here people can help me move the needle if it needs moving.
hwkies, Cadet is exactly right. I was exactly where you are awhile back. I started waking up to what was going on. I did NOTHING but breath, relax and came here to vent and got great support.
Me:44 EXW 44 Wonderful Children M11, T14 BD 6/14 OM Confirmed Divorce Final 2/25/16 "It works if you work it!"
quick administrative question, i just realized if wife got into my phone to mess with text messages, it is possible that she also could have seen something to do with this site in my phones web browser.
is it possible to change the username, mine is similar other forum accounts and i would think it would be best to make it more neutral or less conspicuous.
quick administrative question, i just realized if wife got into my phone to mess with text messages, it is possible that she also could have seen something to do with this site in my phones web browser.
is it possible to change the username, mine is similar other forum accounts and i would think it would be best to make it more neutral or less conspicuous.
thanks for your help!
Go up to my stuff Edit Profile
Fourth or fifth box down says Display name
submit the change and it needs to be approved by an admin.
I changed mine once and then was not allowed to change it back
thanks, i have done just that with all of my devices and accounts this morning. i never had any thought or worry about my business...blind to the truth
Cadet, is it possible to delete all of post 2555305 except for the last full paragraph... It is the only one that matters right now. Deep breath. Thank you for all of your support and help!!!!
started looking for Foo Fighters tickets last night...wow are they expensive.
Wife texted me this AM after we spoke briefly about the show. i told her that i was going to get tickets and she asked if i was 'telling her' that she is going to the concert. I said, not at all, you had made it clear a while ago that you felt that you did not feel it necessary to go to sporting events or concerts with me if you did not want to. i just assumed that you would not go and i will find someone else to go with.
Texts...not a 1/2 hour after i left. Wife: Sorry came off so negative the morning. headache still. i think the concert a good idea. Wife: if it's something you want to do, you should do it.
She is giving me permission for something i was already planning to do. not sure how to respond to that one
i need to figure out what my next step will be. it appears that i am not deep enough into the changes at home as i should be. i still get up with the wife to get her out the door...then i have me time until i get the boys up for school. i still cook all the meals. i still do a majority of the chores (although i have been getting the boys involved much more, it feels like it is not enough shedding of the chores). Wife actually brought in the garbage cans this week (it is not enough but it is something she has never done before). i thought that was nice.
how do i ask that my wife helps more with the daily grind. ever since we've been married this has been a problem so it is nothing new. it was somethint that i used to get very resentful of at the start of all of the marriage struggles. i counted 140 days in a row that when i got home from work, there situation with the kitchen sink / etc. was worse than when i left. no matter how long i left the dishes there...it always got worse. it was something that i got pissed about and held a grudge for super long time. dinner not being made EVER when i got home from a 12 hour day or whatever...nope. Did i ever tell my wife this is how i felt, nope. i just expected that it should have been done that way. [the silent contract crapola is on me...i know this now and have stoppe]. i have also stopped trying to keep score. i just know that for any sort of equal partnership, there needs to be more EQUALITY in what is contributed. do i just wait and see how things work themselves out or is this a boundary that needs to be set (more contribution from spouse, i do not want to be the gay housekeeper or nanny or whaterver).
Besides that, her birthday, mothers day and our anniversary are all comming up this next month...it does not feel right to do nothing for any of them (i was actually going to get tickets to the Celtic Women show coming up in June for anniversary, it was awesome last time we went...and i really want to go). i am just so damned confused. on one hand it feels like i need to keep trying to be a pleasant, strong part of her life, listening, understanding, validating, stints of quality time so that she does not need to find that aspect elsewhere...on the other it feels like that could be pursuing and i need to pull back even more and just leave her to her devices. Can they be done together? Those times together are pleasant for me too. I keep getting hit with a feeling that she may be actually trying, but on the other hand that this is just her leaving bigger crumbs because she has noticed that i'm not biting at the tiny ones anymore or if she is coming back down to earth.
i have been trying to get away and do things more...i don't think i have minutes to spare in my week anymore (3-4 soccer practices a week between both boys, 2-4 soccer games a week, guitar lessons on thursday night (practice almost every night), swimming and gym 3 times a week, kids homework & shuffling them around...oh and trying to actually breath and work and sleep (keeping up on this board is quite a time investment, helps in keeping my mind less crazy).
thanks for letting me vent, needed to dump that out!
So i just reread the whole WW / LBH threads and reapplied those comments to what i am feeling not as they relate to a situation with a WAW which is where i thought i was, but a WW where it is looking more like i could very well be involved with. answered many of the questions above.
Man-oh-man do I have a lot of thinking to do. Stop. Deep Breath. Work on me being a better man: Confidence. Self-Respect. Self-Esteem. Physical Health & Conditioning. Appearance. HAVE SOME FUN.
Thinking all afternoon. So keeping my mind busy at home has been pretty easy because i have so much going on it is easy, at work...not so much. i am busy here at my desk, but i can't focus very well lately (for some reason). i feel like my brain is swirling and fighting itself constantly (think bag of cats type of conflict in my brain).
I need to go write on a blackboard that 'the outcome of my marriage is out of my control.' maybe after 15,000 times it might sink in to where i will stop trying to understand what is going on and what more can i do to help the outcome.
I need to go write on a blackboard that 'the outcome of my marriage is out of my control.' maybe after 15,000 times it might sink in to where i will stop trying to understand what is going on and what more can i do to help the outcome.
Let us know when you have finished this assignment
Zephyr, try a couple of articles out there very much in spirit of DR that helped me enormously today - in dropping that rope. Fcuk Yes or No. My Girlfriend Dumped Me. It was like all 15k times after reading those a few times each.
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
Zephyr it's tough it really is, I'm like you worrying that if I'm too nice it's persuing or if I'm too distant he will go look for it elsewhere. He actually came back after I hadn't seen him a couple days and was more like himself- asking me to hang with him, watch movies, order in etc. then he flips back. My way I've been dealing with things that he seemed to respond to is act confident ( I stick on happy music while I make food/ do chores/ sort baby etc). I sing, I dance (like the old ME). And this was a thing he commented on what was making him question his original decision to d me. He says he's watching me just getting on with things. This is a bit of a 180 for me. So you do whatever the heck you need to do to make YOU feel good. Your a dad, a h, but what makes you you? What do you enjoy? What will make you happy. Whatever your answer to that is- go do it. Take your trip to Ireland - go to your concert. She probably will be baffled as to what you're doing but she will also be fascinated as to who this exciting new guy is. And if you keep your actions consistent- she will start to believe you are genuine. And it is a good feeling when you realise you've switched rolls and now you are the confident one and SHE is the one asking you where you are going etc?
Chin up, you are doing great!!
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
Thank you all!!! I will read those articles Zelda when I get home from lessons and swimming tonight. Cherry, your support is always welcome. We are walking the same path me thinks. Cadet...will do!
Read the articles that Zelda posted last night before I went to bed. There was a third on boundaries...all very eye opening. The quick description of the fixer - victim relationship is pretty spot on. I've been trying to stop being h fixer / perfectionist / nice guy persona that garuntees true, down-the-core unhappiness with ones self. It is hard to look deep inside and actually see her you have become a liar and a wuss. it is easy to see how this in unattractive.
After guitar lessons I bought a new guitar case, thought it was a good idea and didn't think twice. I have always had buyers remorse anytime I treated myself to anything nice. Every time I was faced with a choice between functional or fun, superfluous or no, I always option for the cheap version nor went without to save money, to work for the future or whatever it was in my head that I thought to convince myself it was the right thing. Now I'm faced with a future of financial hard times despite all of my planning. I will likely lose my house despite all of the hard work and money ice put into it..best laid plans I guess. I felt good about that case though. It is Friday morning and I have a busy day ahead.
I am tired of this anxiety and dread. I read Foggs posts today and it made my stomach hurt as I put myself in his shoes for just a moment. My heart bleeds for him. I couldn't help but think that they were the same damned shoes as mine, maybe different color or size...but the same. I need for the pain to stop, I will not allow m myself to be betrayed that completely ever again. I think my path is clear. I need to save myself from my old self. I need to stand for me. I need to make it absolutely clear that I will not allow myself to be treated like a worthless piece of spit because I am not. I will not allow myself to be so completely disrespected with the lies, deciet, mistruths, whayever you want to call it.
I have dug and dug to find what the problems were with me over the last year+. What was wrong with me. Why was I so unlovable. Why did i feel so worthless and alone. I had been beat down and buried by loyalty, dedication, trust, duty, devotion to a dream, faithfulness...whatever i used toconvince myself to give at all costs. I just kept on keeping on. I found this guy down in the bottom of that hole and I have been helping him climb out and he is seeing the light of day and the freshness of a future. I like this guy. I am pretty sure he is going to be sad, but I know he is going to be ok, likely better than ok. I'm not gonna lie, I am both excited and trepidatious at the same time.
Now maybe it time to think about how to implement this boundary and exactly how to enforce it. I realize it could ultimately mean losing my children my saving and my home, my companion...but I cannot be held hostage for as long as she sees fit. I would like to be happy. In would like to start to enjoy my life again. I certainly cannot tell someone not to betray me. I cant throw them out if rhe house is hers and there is no safety issues (which there has never been, and sshe has been the most pleasant she has been to me in years over last 4 mos) I cant just preach for hour about being hurt or whatever. I think this is the part where I say, oh I get it. (thank you guys and gals) I need to just let things be and start living my life for me. I need to share my house with a woman that I still love, but she is no longer my wife. I will be respectful but not a wuss. I need to make sure that I am protected against financial ruin (I am having my paycheck split so a majority goes to personal checking account to make sure I can pay all of the bank notes & credit cards - it will make bill paying easier for me anyway...should have done this months ago to save check writing and stamps). Most of all I need to shed the super husband uniform and do what I want. I will be an amazing father...but I cannot let my life revolve around my children. I cannot sacrifice every spare minute of my existence for them. I need me time and I am going to start back golfing this spring. I am getting my fishing license this Sunday. What am I missing? I need to sit down and have a glass of water.
Funny wife has been sending texts all morning...she usually texts and calla throughout the day. Last one asked how day was going...thanks for getting kids out door...hope day goes better for you. That was before I read Foggs posts a few hours ago. Just replied that I'm having a great day. Thx. Now to get some work done.
Ugh I know exactly what you mean with the anxiety and dread. I just wrote a post about my little pity party I'm throwing myself.
I love your analogy about the man at the bottom of the hole that's exactly what it's like- and over the years all the sand has been dumped on- and it's time to dig that person out!! We honestly do deserve the best and to be happy. I guess I'm the early days it's hard- and it does hurt like hell.
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
Cherry, i have been hurting for years and had no idea why. even before the wife told me that she was unhappy and had one foot out the door 3+ years ago. it has taken me soooo long to start moving in the right direction. it may very well be a very long ride ahead still. I did not have this site to help me though...i always felt alone in the dark...making the same damned mistakes that so many others have made. you are doing great!!! ups and downs are expected.
So since you started DBing- is that when you started to see more positives. The mood I'm in, I honestly don't wanna waste the rest of my 20s on this excuse of a man.
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
Yes Cherry. Last June i found some posts from other sites that i read that started to open my eyes to MAYBE what was going on. i was away on business in Kansas and had a lot of time and tears on my hands. those were very dark days for Zephyr. there was a spark of hope and i started to put on a more positive attitide. it was a few months later than i started to pull back from wife a little. i found this site and it really started to put into context some of the things that i had started to see were making things better. i had done LOTS of soul serching and spoken with IC about many many facetts of my life. I read the DR book back in december (and a couple of times since, along with others) and had a long discussion with the wife about (what i understand now as codependancy). she felt like we were both too wrapped up in each other and blah...blah...blah. but it was actual truth, maybe it was being spun a funny way.
Since i have read the book and started the process, it has felt like things are very different between us. like i said, she has been more pleasant to me. She tries to get in touch with me all the time, sometimes i have time to talk. i have always enjoyed her company immeasurably. we have really connected at times...other times, not as mcuh and i was never sure why. i was blind to the possibility that maybe she could have been in an affair of some kind. Love Blinders. Anyway. between doing the REAL work on myself and the awesome help of those on this site, i feel like a different person than i was even 9 months ago. I AM A DIFFERENT PERSON than 9 months ago. SHE HAS NOTICED.
As far as how long you want to go with this, that is going to be a decision that Cherry and Cherry alone makes. What is best for you and your future? What is Best for your little baby?
I have read Cadet's front page post whenever someone new shows up and evertime i understand a little more of what is on there.
This is why we are granted the gift of time. for us to use and figure ourselves out. to figure out what is going to make us happy. To make ourselves better people WITH OR WITHOUT our spouse.
Zephyr that is great it really is. I like to hear that it's working/ it's real assuring.
I know you're right, wine I know I should soul search. It's just the fact it's like he goes nice and feeds me the lines I wanna hear then goes cold on me. Sends me messages tells me how he will always feel attracted to me and will struggle to not sleep with me.
I just feel so anxious today, just one of those days am guessing. Feel like giving up in general. Maybe I should re read DR..
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
Posted by Cadet on Eirinn's thread: Zephyr do you know what YOU want? I would say men are exactly the same as women here.Unsure of what they really want! I will try to sort some of this out. _________________________________ Well that is the ultimate question for each and every one of Us. One that I'm not sure many can honestly answer. It is certainly something that I've been struggling with for the last 6 months (longer if you count all the struggles not knowing what i was fighting with in my head all this to me) of my life and something I've not been able to answer. what do I really want vs. What don't I want and can I be happy with my life as is or do things need to be changes drastically, subtly???
is The super dad mantra what I want... to be a great dad, it is something I've always wanted. niw i have two not so littlw boys who i want ro be a part of thier loves. How can I love my children and be a great father to them and not live with them under the same roof, not be the one to raise them. It goes against all that I have felt as the right thing to do my whole adult life. That is something that I need to resolve. even if I am to live with them it is something I need to work on. Do I stop coaching their teams, going to all their events...I tuck them in virtually every night...memories of singing them to sleep every night still warms my heart.
I want to love and be loved. I want to feel a woman's kiss on my lips. I want to feel desired to feel like there is someone in this world who wants me to touch them...to make pleasure them and for them to want to actually touch me, want to actually pleasure me, wants to meet my needs as a man and to show me thier passion, desire, intimacy whatever you want to call it. I am tired of seeing wife give dog more affection than she is willing to share with me.
I want to feel appreciated for my efforts. Whether it is working at a job to make a living, working at the house to maintain it or projects to make it better, whether it is paying bills or doing chores, cooking dinner, shopping, helping kids with homework, whatever. I do things things because they need to be done. I don't wake up in the morning and say, man I can't wait to get to be he store? It is part of life, but it would sure be nice for someone to not only acknowledge my efforts but really appreciate what I give. I used to get PO'd sooo often when I did chores when they would not even be noticed or cares about...in had to stop keeping score and do these things out of love. I expected that the more I did, the more I would be shown affection. I know it does not work like that. I just want to feel some appreciation. And no I cannot just leave it. I've been trying so hard to resolve this. I have not touched the sink in 4 days because i am tires just doing the dishes without a thought. There were no bowls spoons for breakfast for my children. When wife gets up she will come down and force the boys to do the dishes, there will be much fighting then wife will go bury her head into the ultra reality that is Facebook. I guess I simply want someone to do their share rather than bitch about things and do nothing themselves to change it.
Things i like to do: travel, go see football games, concerts or juwt live music, breweries / wineries to try new stuff, hiking, go shooting, gaming with friends, golfing, fishing.
Things I actually do: golfed once last three years. Went on one real trip each 3 of last 5 years. Do game, by not as much as I'd like, shooting only twice a year, beer - wine tasting maybe on average once every two months, football games 1/2 years, concerts 1 per year. Sounds like a bunch but it comes out to maybe one fun thing per month. just not enough it would seem if I put it into perspective.
How do I fit more into my life, something will suffer. travel, etc. Is not cheap. Do I sacrifice our retirement planning to get more into my expendable budget? Do I just start ditching my commitments to my kids in the fall for their soccer games so I can go tailgate and watch a silly game of football? Who do I go with ... It is not as fun by myself. how do I get to do more without more vacation time?
I enjoy reading, listening to music...those sorts...I can't do them after work because I am helping kids with homework or getting dinner ready or soccer practices. By time kids are in bed I'm tired and ready to fall asleep watching a show or after 2 pages of a book. I've got weeks of programs recorded that I'll never watch and tons of books it feels like I'll never finish.
This is all stuff I need to sort out...I am not sure what to do...maybe an IC visit is in order.
Thanks Toots. We read the book and did all of those exercises back when she first told me how unhappy she was feeling...3+ years ago. for me physical touch was by far #1. Acts of service, QT and words of affirmation were all basically lumped together. acts was just in front of words. Gifts was last by a long shot.
It is sad...Xmas wife bought me a guitar and lessons for a gift. It was so thoughtful and wonderful I cried, I actually cried from a gift because it felt like a loving gesture from her...just goes to show how empty the old love tank was. BTW, gifts, acts & words are her top thee and QT & physical came in pretty far down. Now I don't know how honest she was being with that, but I know she always used to appreciate thoughtful gifts which is what made me so happy with the guitar...in my mind it was a true act if love.
Knowing the languages was important. Trying to implement that info into my understanding of our interactions and practicing took lots of time. It was hard for me to understand that a thank you hug meant so little to wife where are a nicely worded card and flowers meant so much more. Not only how I should be expressing my love and appreciation for her, but how I was evaluating how she was trying to convey similar back to me. I was expecting a thank you hug but only got back a nice wordy thank you from her...well I never understood that was how she was trying to express her love or admiration or appreciation. Once I figured this out and was able to, in practice, express my love to her in ways that she wanted...it was likely too late and she has already checked out. I did not know this at the time, so was getting quite frustrated that my efforts was disregarded or were pushing her further away...I had no idea about the pursuit - withdrawal dynamic. Where was this info 10-15 years ago?
Ah yes, love language. The first I heard about it was in wife and OM texts. BTW, he is touch and hers is smell supposedly. Who knows what mine is? I was never asked.
Ok, bitter rant over.
Me M51 WW F46 T 17 yrs M 16 yrs 9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17 8 grandchildren ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14 I discover PA 12/31/14 She files D: 1/9/15 She moves out 3/2/15 D papers served 3/18/15
Ah yes, love language. The first I heard about it was in wife and OM texts. BTW, he is touch and hers is smell supposedly. Who knows what mine is? I was never asked.
Me neither. Just more weird stuff from affair fog. Lol.
Me M51 WW F46 T 17 yrs M 16 yrs 9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17 8 grandchildren ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14 I discover PA 12/31/14 She files D: 1/9/15 She moves out 3/2/15 D papers served 3/18/15
Ok so pretty great weekend. Yesterday I took boys fishing and wife came with. She is better angler than me so showed me a few things. Fun!
Soccer games went well. Good time.
Made steaks / potatoes / asparagus / bread & pudding for desert at boys requests cause they both won their games.
Played cards with the boys for a while.
Watched last three episodes of black sails with the wife. Very awesome series by the way. We were joking and laughing the whole time.
This am, I expected grumpy... Never showed. Wife woke up after me and made me breakfast, her offer. What? She had boys do dishes..but did it nicely.
Later I had to do boys laundry so I said to wife, do you have any laundry you still need to finish from yesterday. She thanked me and went to grab her clothes. She took them and went to fold them. I went to room a bit later and sat on bed. She was still there. I was tired, she wanted to take a nap. We did. She held my hand for 20 minutes, ended up moving and asked if I would snuggle (me big spoon) we did for 1/2 hour.
Went to the gym and had a good time. Came hone and she did more homework. I played guitar for a while, she came up and watched me practice. We went to dinner at granite city brewery and had a marvelous time. We shares a desert and she even took her shoe off and was running her foot on my leg for a few moments (it has been years for since that happened gang)
Tonight is game of thrones and outlander TV shows. Always fun!
What a great day & weekend. No stress. I didn't pursue. She did not feel cold, in fact she sought me out 4-3,times to give me a kiss / hug. We talked for a while about nonsense this am. It was as if we were a family.
Some side notes: I have really made an effort not to overstretch when she initiates physical contact...if there is a kiss don't over do it, if a hug don't let hands linger or roam. During cuddle no groping or whatnot. I really want her to feel comfortable with showing me physical affection without her worrying about me trying to escalate. Clearly there is still a real problem in that department, i don't want to give her a reason to not want to give me the physical affection I want.
We both got reevaluated at the gym...wife's progress with weight loss has been very nice. I am proud of her for the hard work she is putting in. She is down nearly 20# since Nov and is planning on 60# more. Me, well I haven't lost any real weight since novbr, I have athletic build so 150-155# is about where I've been since high school, but my body fat is down from 19% to 11% and lean muscle WAY up. I am very proud of me too!
Sounds like a great weekend. I think your doing great with the intimacy thing- imho I find that so difficult to keep cool when I feel the touch of the man I love so much. Important for them to see our strengths and that we can not be easily manipulated. And we'll done at the gym, it's amazing how much self growth comes of DB-ing
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
Thank you cherry...finding out that we are strong, confident people who can live more independently is absolutely one of the biggest benefits of the journey we are on right now. Accepting loss in whatever degree it ends up is something that I've not been able to do and something that I feel like now I can handle what comes.
Wow, so all weekend i had no trouble focusing. no trouble getting done what i wanted without the wandering mind.
I sit down at my desk at work and BOOOM. No focus at all on what i should be working on. my brain has started to meander down different roads, trying to figure things out again. trying to make sense of things. is it wierd that just a matter of where you are sitting makes this dynamic so different?
i feel like i need to take a leave of absense or something to get my head straight. i am so enmeshed with my family that i cannot see the forest for the trees, i cannot see what is really going on in my life. one day i feel wonderful then the next a sense of dread and emptiness. i am in no position to be able to leave my job and meet my obligations to my family and banks, etc...and really i am not a person i would hire right now as a crazy mess.
even my GAL activities almost all include wife or kids or both. that is not entirely positive. i need to get my own life. i need to stop with the constant lying to myself on how things will work themselves out (well it is true things will work themselves out, but maybe not the way i am hoping they will).
My 180's, they are certainly helping make the interaction between me and my wife more pleasant, but is that even the goal here...to make things nice. If there is something going on with her and someone else, is this not the correct approach, no consequences to her actions, still playing part of nice husband. how do i change that dynamic without ripping everything apart.
i need to somehow look at my life and see how in the hell i can move forward. it feels like every step i take i am leaving something unfinished or behind or ignoring something. i am going nuts.
Went to my son's school for a pep rally for a state tourney. Wife came with and was excited. Went back to drop her at her car and she started to cry. she wants to go with him to the tourney. She said that she was sad becuause she has missed many of these sorts of events over last couple of years.
Got texts a bit later when i got to work.
Wife: thanks for dropping me at the car. sorry about the breakdown. i am a bit over emotional i guess. i know i haven't been able to pull my weight or support any of you boys enough lately, and i really hate it.
me: i appreciate you being so open with me! i care about what you are feeling and hate that you are hurting. i am here if you want to talk more about what you are going through.
wife: Thank you for letting me. it feels liek all i ever do is whine, and that is not lost on me that all these issues are the result of choices i've made. I'm sorry.
I just have no idea how to respond. i wanted to write: 'i can see that this is bothering you. we have both made choices in our lives that have affected each other, some i am not proud of. i have tried to make these right with you. i have done some real soul searching and evaluating what was our marriage and what could be. i can think of nothing that i cannot forgive of you.'
is that too much, too little, too much about me i think. aargh! i did not expect anything like this today.
I agree with bravo. I would be overcompensating as well, but that is not the correct DB approach.
Me M51 WW F46 T 17 yrs M 16 yrs 9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17 8 grandchildren ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14 I discover PA 12/31/14 She files D: 1/9/15 She moves out 3/2/15 D papers served 3/18/15
I read through your thread and you report mostly positive actions from your W, no? Seems like she's reached out to you physically and emotionally. Where do you get the feeling that your M is over? I am sure I am missing something?
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
Thanks Z. I honestly have been tempering my enthusiasm and taking things really slow from the perspective of accepting what I see and little of what I hear.
I get that it looks like my situation is not as complicated or as dire as many that I have read here on this board and that there is hope. It could be or like others, or just as bad, but I DO have hope, I just need to make sure my expectations are honest. I have been living in a terrible marriage for a long time, like crying at my desk at work for hours, crying myself to sleep every night just so that I can wake up to nightmares of my wife 'conducting herself in less than an hinerabke fashion'. The years of sex-starvrd.marriage before wife told me she was ready to leave me. I have been through a lot of hurt just like everyone else. I just got here later then most. I will apologize if it seems like I was not being mindful of others pain when I post good things that I've seen in my lifw...honestly you are the only people I've shared this stuff with and it felt great to share.
This situation with wife being checked out has been going on for years. Me not having my needs met has been going on for years. Lack of communication, not feeling appreciated Or wanted, wife not taking part in her families lives had been going on for so long, it is hard to remember the times where it wasn't like that.
I understand that I did nothing to make this better for a food portion of what I call the crisis phase of our marriage...in fact I now know I likely made things worse with my needy, passive aggressive behavior, trying to please her instead of backing away.
My issue is there is still little communication or nor has she shown any sort of emphasis from my wife to dig down and figure out with me, I get a real sense that she does not want to give me hope through MC or by giving me any sort of indication of a future together, when all I've been time for so long is that she had one foot out the door...that is hard to handle for years when that is all I have gotten. What went wrong in our marriage. Was there / is there an affair, and she is just getting the support from me she needs and giving mw the littlw bit of scraps she thinks i need to not leavw the reservation, I don't know. Is is this a phase where wife sees a way out, but is not quite there yet...and just keeping me in line till she can finally leave, idk. Is this my wife trying to check back into our marriage...??? What has changed to allow her to finally want back in. Me, yes certainly that is true, but is that enough. I know that none of these matter that can only work on mybside, that her working on her is a path she needs to take on her own. So deep down I know my old marriage IS over. Whether or not we can build a new one out of the ruins is a mother discussion.
I want her to be my wife. I want to grow old with her. I've spent over 1/2 my whole life and my entire adult life with her, yet I have no idea what she wants. I know this is such a dangerous spot in my life. I am finally un-meshing and actually detaching myself from my spouse to the point that I can accept moving forward without her or my kids in my daily lives. It will be terrible, but if that is what needs to happen for me to be happy, then that so be it. I have to be very careful with my outlook and not fall back onto old habits or allow myself to be epically betrayed if I am not cautious or if I lose my sight of what people are capable of.
I do want to thank you Zelda for sharing your time with me, and cherry, and eirinn, cadet and All the rest. It means so very much to know that I am not alone in this struggle and there are folks out there willing to slap straight from time to time and willing to help me grow!
So i think i am going crazy. My focus has been lost.
i went to IC yesterday and we discussed guilt i am having (read / interperet this as FEAR) and changes i've seen in me and in the wife.
He was very excited about the reports on wife's behavior to show more affection, join in on daily chores (a little bit anyway) and her actions like talking to me , stepping up to back me up with kids, etc. His comments were that she is showing great signs of not showing repulsion anymore, instead attraction. He said this is good news even if she is involved in an affair or whatever her situation is.
i told him that i am trying to temper my enthusiasm quite a bit. he told me that it is important to understand that true love can only be felt when we lower our walls are make ourselves vulnerable. he said that he understands the apprehension for truely making ourselves vulnerable emotionally, but he said there really is no such thing as cautious vulnerability and that we have to rely on our boundaries to really protect ourselves from being hurt.
it is clear i still love my wife. it is also clear that i have started to open up to her and started to trust what i am seeing from her behavior a little bit more and that is a good thing, right? Why am i so damned scared of setting those boundaries then, that i need to protect myself and my family. is it that I do not want to accept that I will have to ultimately file for a divorce and lose my children, house, savings, etc. It feels like that is exactly what i will have to choose to do to protect myself if there is in fact an affair going on. Some days i feel like i could handle being divorced, then other [LIKE TODAY] that i feel like i am not ready to accept what i will have to do and allow myself to be taken advantage of.
The bank can have the house i guess, we are underwater from the last houseing market draw-back. we can make payments now, but not gonna happen if there is a second rent in place to consider. That will be terrible since i've worked so hard on building a credit history that anyone could be proud of. whether short sale or forclosure, it will be bad for Zephyr's credit, period.
The children are resiliant, they are likely more than i. i can say that i will not accept less than 50/50, but that is ultimately up to the courts. i have basically raised the kids over the last 5 years 90% and it would be criminal for me not to get them, but who said the courts are just. they will adapt. they will not like it, I will not like it. COPE with it, right?
i am AWESOME, and would be a catch for sure. i make a good living (minus whatever the courts take away - sigh), great provider, great father, have become a good communicator (except for my spelling), loving, caring and i am not entirely unattractive. i don't know that this is something that i've put a lot of thought into over the last couple of years, meeting new women. This should not be something that i use as an excuse and be afraid.
So what is it that is causing me such trepidation, such fear of being alone. Is it the fear of failure...IDK, i don't think i have been a failure at all. i think that i dropped the ball all those years ago. i've tried to make things right, but was it too late.
I don't want to believe that divorce is a forgone conclusion either. I would be willing to forgive virtually anything from my wife if there was true regret, transparancy, work on her side and honeststy with the situation. but i know that if there is a boundary in place i need to be able to enforce it.
UUGH. i am tired of beating myself up. i am tired of being confused and afraid.
Oh zephyr , I'm im so sorry your feeling like this. This is a really difficult time. I get the fear of being alone thing. It was never necessarily that that kept me awake at night. It was the person who would be walking out of my life. You are truly right on all those points- you sound like a great man and an awesome v hands on dad! And I'm sure her opening up to you is in response to her seeing this in you. It does take time, I think I read something about a month for every year together. Obviously it takes them a while to trust these changes they see. But you are doing so so great. And I'm praying for you
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
So stupid... zepher thought i should share some of what i spoke to IC about including guilt about asking for things and conflict of doing too much with the kids and tring to spend more time for myself [thought it was a good idea at the time - lesson learned that conversation is for me]. Last night when I got home from work, cold n distant showed up. Not at all fun. I've seen these fluctuations so often in her. So I pulled back, gave her WIDE berth, went to kids soccer practice then out to guitar lessons. Came home put the kids to bed. Kids were arguing with wife. I let s13,and wife finish off their argument. The I pulled s13 aside and told him that he is not to speak to his mother like that, that he needs to look at her and not ignoe her when she is talking to him. She sought me out a little after and told me how much she appreciated me backing her up like that. I didn't think she even heard.
This am was better, felt normal, she even came to me for goodbye kisses. I thought she looked incredible in an outfit we picked out before Christmas. She was bubblier when she left.
Even when doing what feels right making gaffes. The lesson, if I am doing something to show progress...don't, just do it. Ic is for me unless she wants to go with...which SHe does not (Reason 42 why I cannot trust all that I see.)
Thanks cherry. I honestly don't know why I am still so afraid. Big Part of me thinks that this is real and there is love blossoming and the other smaller part thinks I am nuts and this is all BS and I should be gone long ago. That conflict is tearing me apart inside.
You seem afflicted with the same condition I have: turmoil in head is greater than actual happenings, no?
What if you were to put it aside and start acting AS IF you are a happily married man? I know...
But it seems so many times on this board ppl jump to LRT or hanging back when the 180s and As If would be more appropriate. I just wonder in your sitch since the line of demarcation to start hanging back was "when spouse has firmly closed door on marriage." She is physically reaching out to you. I know trust is scary and you don't want to get your heartbroken.
But, what if you keep doing what is working - your 180s - no R talk - and just go all out man she fell in love with and court her in little ways daily?
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
I hear your pain and anxiety. Hold in there. I have ups and downs in the way I look at my situation too. Sometimes we talk normally about doing this or that in a few months time and I think to myself how can you act like that and think about us doing stuff together that far away. But that is days when I struggle to support my situation. Other days I am really happy to have her in my life and I appreciate each extra day. Those days the same conversation lifts me as I know we have time. I cannot offer much guidance as I am lost a bit myself. Ultimately we deserve to be happy and for now I have decided I want to be happy with my wife. To get there we need to get through today, then tomorrow.
Edit - Please start a new thread. - Cadet
Last edited by Cadet; 04/24/1512:40 PM. Reason: message
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Thanks Zelda... You rock. My heart keeps telling me just that, I should keep going on like I've been, and enjoy what I am receiving...she has been reaching out her friendship and her physical presence is improved drastically and I get a sense that she doesn't despise me, from her right now (mind reading yes, but she does not cringe when I come near...even something as silly as when she hugs me, she no longer tucks her head away from mine, she has been resting her chin next to mine...so subtle but it is a world of difference in the way it makes me feel). I've got a long way to go with ME, still to attached to wife and kids (cried for 20 minutes after tucking boys in last night). I will continue on as if and Keep my mind focused. I can't ignore all of the signs, just can't react. Funny I type that, more than a few times we encounter a situations where wife will ask me what is wrong when she would be expecting me To react in a certain way...just look back at her and say...nope, nothing or Im just fun.
