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Here is a link to the previous thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2543501&page=1

So Thread number 13.

For those that dont know my story the start of the previous thread has a pretty good summary and much as though id like to claim my situation is unique - it really isnt except that it uniquely affects me.

So BD was a little over 6 months ago and my wife moved out into her new house a little under 2 months ago. Financials are all sorted with a written, signed but not legally binding agreement and the childcare arrangements have a similar agreement. Nothing on divorce papers yet but i have a solicitor retained.

In terms of communication then its pretty limited. There is pretty much no contact outside of the child handovers and they for the most part have very little communication.

2 sundays I ago I cracked (and i know why) and asked wife to tell me before she introduces OM1 (I used his name) to the kids. She said that they had only had a few dates since she moved out and so shes not looking to introduce him yet. we had a bit of an unconstructive to and fro in which i said she left me for him and that its still an affair whatever she claims. She said she left me because she was miserable and she was miserable because i was so awful to live with and be around. She finished by accusing me of hacking her phone and facebook account (I'm not/haven't)

Anyway it was confirmation that she and OM1 are now seeing each other in a much more established way and given the circumstances I seriously doubt its going to be a flash in pan relationship. Even if it was my wife still clearly belives everything negative about me.

I was upset for a couple of hours but then had a moment of more acceptence in that she has gone, she isnt my wife, she is someones elses girlfriend and we cant even have a conversation let alone a relationship. The certainty helps as I know its time to move on with my life. I still miss her and at some level will always love her but I also know i'm tired of her affecting my emotions and being so prominant in my thoughts.

I have wondered if she ever thinks about me and if so what but theres no way to know and it wouldnt help anyway

So i'm now trying to shift my focus to moving on with my life and giving it all less thought (hence the reduced posting). Just need to work out what my new single life looks like and how i find meaning and purpose outside of my work and my kids.

As always I hope you are all well and thankyou for reading


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So I figure I better give a GAL update. I think its been pretty good but I doubt my score would get near Vanilla's

So Italy was really good, I was in a beautiful little castle town and it was warm and sunny. I had lunch one afternoon sat in the sun by the banks if the Tiber. It was fairly long couple of days and it was work but it was still good and I made a point of being sociable with the others who I'd never met before and were from all over Europe (I'm normally pretty reserved).

I will say the food here is better and as my European colleagues decided to make fun of British cooking, I think they'll be in for a pleasant surprise when they come.

Got back and straight into some massive work stuff but that was good fun. Then had the kids for 4 nights and 4 days.

Took them to the zoo and the park (fed the ducks) and generally had some really good family time with them. I notice my WS absence more at these times.

After then over the next week when I didn't have the kids, I visited a mate and went to the pub quiz, went to my ceroc class (im pretty good for a newbie), visited a different mate, played games on line with my brother, went to the pub with a new (for me) meetup group and met a friend for coffee.

Work is also going really well at the moment and I've managed to get out for a couple of 5k runs, though my yoga has dropped off a little.

This week is a little less busy so I need to explore some options a bit more though I have the kids for a large part of it which is always good (if tiring)


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Sounds like you are working on GAL. Good for you! Keeping you in my thoughts and wishing you all the best. smile


Me 52, H53
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Jim

This is GAL!

I am so very pleased, especially about the Ceroc bit, I would have the whole board dancing if I could.

Went to Camber and had a brilliant weekend dancing the nights away. I really do think dancing, music, film and exercise help with mood. Should be on prescription.

Did you try Italian wine at all, (I know not your thing necessarily but you tried a little in Paris France). Goes great with cheeeeese you know! I love that part of Italy, even if it was a work event still better weather than here in the UK.

I am so glad it was enjoyable and so thrilled you mixed, despite your reserve.

I guess reserve comes with the English humour. I will say it again Moooose

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 03/17/15 06:29 PM.

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I too am impressed with your GAL Jim! Good for you with the Ceroc and the socialising with work mates.

I also think you have a good perspective in terms of your W. As you say, right now she is gone. But, as for any of us - who knows in the longer term. But I think moving forward with our own lives is the right thing to do.

I love feeding the ducks! My flat overlooks an ancient pool that has ducks and geese on. Some days I go down and visit them. I've found out that bread isn't great for them, so my ducks get halved grapes and peas too. I want to get some special duck food for them. Of course when I go, it's normally me and a couple of three year olds feeding them!

Glad to hear you sounding so good Jim. I always appreciate your wise words on the forum.....((Jim))


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Hi Jim,

I was just reading TO today and how she is trying to make her M work, now that her and H are back together.

She went through hell, he told her many times that the M was over, that he was over.

Along the way she tough that it was all over and that she would never rescue her M. They even started the D papers.

So Jim, you never know. The truth, and this bothers me too, is that you need to move forward and let the time heal all the wounds you and your partner have. And maybe, just maybe things can change and there is some chance.

You sound sad, but has a head over your shoulders. You know it's hard and difficult all what you going through, but you are also trying to improve and move towards a better place in your life.

It may not feel good, but will make you stronger, a better person and may be the exactly thing that will call her attention back to you.

Keep strong my friend, it's one day at a time. There is always hope if you want to do the hard work.

XOXO
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Hi Jim

Hope things are going well for you at the moment? I've read some of your posts to others this week - found them very useful.

I forgot to ask you. What did you decide to do in respect of your W, the kids and Mothers Day last weekend? And how was that received? Are you noticing any changes in your interactions at all?

Anyway - do let us know how you're getting along. Are the little ones with you this weekend?

T x


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Jim

Just checking in to see how you are and to make sure you are eating your carrots and greens.

Did you go dancing?

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Hi All

just updating because...... well i dont know really theres nothing really to say.

Interaction wise we are at pretty much no contact. even at the handovers of the kids (4 at this weekend just gone) we simply dont speak to each other. We both talk to the kids and we both put our focus on them but theres virtually no interaction between W and I.

I guess i just cant be bothered to pretend to be nice. for weeks i said hello/goodbye that sort of thing and she had said nothing back so i'm just taking her lead i guess.

we had a very brief text exchange (maybe 5 texts total and i'd guess less than 100 words in total) to make all the arrangements for D3s birthday party - In truth wife presented a fait accompli and i said ok with a couple of small questions (like her budgeting being way off)

So thats it really.

As for me, well i've had the kids for a lot of the last week which has been great. nothing spectacular but its been sunny and fun. On saturday D3 stayed up late and curled up on the sofa with me and a bowl of popcorn to watch a film. On Sunday we went for lunch with my old neighbours and their kids and then went to the park. All good.

Outside of the time with kids, well Thursday i went to Ceroc again. Friday a mate came over and we just chatted (his wife is expecting a baby now). when i could, I caught up on the most ridiculous day of rugby (to my american friends - you really need to get some proper sports wink ) Sunday I went for 5k run and felt pretty good. Last night i went to the pub with a friend from work and all through i've got back on my yoga wagon again.

So all pretty good really.

I will say that in the last couple of weeks my work head is really starting to kick back in - when this happens i start getting lots of ideas about how to put the world to rights. Most are rubbish but a few shake out into exciting projects for me.

So all in all just trying to get back to being me and trying (with limited success) not to give my wife any more thought than i have to.

Have a good day all, and for my UK DB friends - enjoy the sunshine


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Sounds like progress.

In a good way jim.


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To me too

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jim0987 - I'm so very happy you're updating us on your situation. We grow attached to one another and I want to know how your situation evolves. I will say like Ggrass and Vanilla that you do sound better now. In fact, I'd like to ask you: Is it better for you now that the in-house separation is over? I bet it is better for your sitch because you have much less opportunities to get on WW's nerves. This is how a healing process begins.

Originally Posted By: jim0987
i said she left me for him and that its still an affair whatever she claims. She said she left me because she was miserable and she was miserable because i was so awful to live with and be around.

Ouch. "Miserable" is also the word my WW used. I've been struggling with the same thought recently, as I imagine multiple scenarios (talk with FIL, R session with MC, heart-to-heart with WW) where I tell her that she left me for OM and she gets offended. This is what I want to believe because it makes me feel better but all sources, including DB, tell me that it's not the case. I'm reading this book about attraction and the author says that a woman happy in her M does not cheat. Ouch, again. And yes, she was miserable. It's terrible to realize that I've had such an impact on my current situation. Look who's miserable now.

Originally Posted By: jim0987
Anyway it was confirmation that she and OM1 are now seeing each other in a much more established way and given the circumstances I seriously doubt its going to be a flash in pan relationship.

The right attitude is probably not to think about it, but I'm no better than you and I also think about it. My take right now is that a R is not possible without this kind of experience. OM1 is only human and soon they will face reality. She will get on his nerves, he will get snappy, they'll be tired sometimes, have conflict, etc. Your WW needs to experience these things to gain a little perspective on your M. What was jim0987? What was herself? What was just life? By the way, as for the duration of their R, keep in mind that there's a certain amount of pressure on any such A because it has to be perfect given what's sacrificed for it. Perhaps that's why they have higher rates of failure.

I'm not really trying to be overly optimistic. I want to cancel some of your pessimism and bring you in a healthier and more accurate place that's more neutral and aligned with what we know.

Originally Posted By: jim0987
The certainty helps as I know its time to move on with my life. I still miss her and at some level will always love her but I also know i'm tired of her affecting my emotions and being so prominant in my thoughts.

I get that. Looking back at how much I've thought and talked about her in the last six months, I see a lot of time wasted. Well, some of it was unavoidable as I process my emotions, but I also see that it has little bearing on reality, so it's best to take my focus away.

Originally Posted By: jim0987
I have wondered if she ever thinks about me and if so what but theres no way to know and it wouldnt help anyway

In fact, it seems that we get upset regardless of whether the thoughts are good or bad. For instance, I've realized that I don't want to know how my WW feels, regardless of whether she's happy or sad because both bother me.

Originally Posted By: jim0987
So i'm now trying to shift my focus to moving on with my life and giving it all less thought (hence the reduced posting). Just need to work out what my new single life looks like and how i find meaning and purpose outside of my work and my kids.

This is no small task and we can get distracted and fail at this. If you look at my recent posts, I've taken to focus more on this because I feel I still need the help of DB to get there. I'm impressed with your GAL. It sounds like you're really putting yourself out there, doing new things. I wish I was as good. You sound like a guy I would love to have around and I'm sure this is going to shine in real life.

I've done a little research on this ceroc thing and saw a video with a demo. It looks fun, though I've never been very good at coordinating my moves with a partner. I also read the Wikipedia entry and noticed this nugget of info: "This is usually because Ceroc events have more female participants than male ones". So, yoga and ceroc, jim? Hm hm... ;-)


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Hi Jim! Thanks for the well wishes on my post. Molly is adjusting to the new place pretty well. She will be even better once I get everything put away and settled, but she seems to be adjusting well enough since I am there and we have most of the furniture from our old house, so that is familiar to her.

As far as interior design plans, I have lots of plans, but it is a pretty small place, so we shall see how many plans actually come to fruition, but again, I greatly appreciate the well wishes and look forward to getting settled.


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Hi Mozza, just wanted to respond to some of the questions/points you bring up.

I think i'm doing better with the seperation in part because i can relax at home more and in part because it forces the acceptance of what is going on. Having her in the house, when she rolls in a 0300 having been out with him (and then denying it) or having the misrepresentation and anger in my face was pretty horrible to live with.

About that conversation with her about OM.

first of it was a mistake to have said anything. but it was also a defensive reaction to the fact she was still denying that OM had anything to do with her leaving (compounding my mistake). I know she was miserable (which i will expand on in a second) but she left because she wanted him and i think that explains a lot about why she shut down completely and refused to discuss anything. She still says he had nothing to do with it but i also know they were in bed together within a week of her telling me we were done and that she has pursued him quite solidly.

So about her misery. Yes she was miserable and she has been since D3 was born and maybe a bit before that. I knew she was miserable but i never really tried to talk to her about it or to understand why, I always assumed that she would talk to me when she felt ready to.

As time went on it all became harder and I sunk into my own form of depression due to a lack of affection which made it all harder but also made me much more defensive when she did say anything. equally when i said anything she just called me paranoid or would tell me something about how she doesnt like her body or she doesn have any friends - neither of which i could do anything about though in my own (and i now know ineffective) way I tried to be supportive.

So I've found myself wondering why when i knew she was miserable did i not say anything and i realise it was fear of rejection. I felt rejected but by speaking up i risked confirming that rejection and it becoming absolute, so i stayed quiet and just hoped it would get better on its own all the while the relationship deteriorated further.

As you can see that approach went well

yay me \o/ (very sarcastic tone)

So she was miserable, I wasnt hugely happy and we both blamed each other. this left her open to an affair. I have to take responsibility for what I did wrong (and i wrestle with this guilt massively) and equally what i didnt do, like speaking up and reading the books i've read since BD.

BUT none of that to my mind changes the fact that she left me for OM1 because she saw that she could be happier elsewhere. And it kills me to admit this but she's right - It would be really going some to be more miserable than she was with me.

But was i that awful to live with? I dont know, she certainly thinks so. I suspect its more i did some awful, much discussed in my threads, things some time ago and then reinforced this with a lack of care or proper reconcilliation. It meant that the small stuff that instead of being seen as just part of life became more ammunition to an ever growing pile of resentment.



But this is now all stuff im trying to work through with my IC so that i never repeat these mistakes and that i show any future partner (and there are some self confidence issues on this too) the right care and support so that both our needs get met.

As for my M, its done. maybe one day we might get back together but there is no paved and smooth its rocky and through hostile territory. I certainly arent going to put my life on hold for that possibility nor do i want to be plan B in case he doesnt work out.

And so i'm trying to make my work worthwhile and enhance my career, i want to be the best dad i can be on the days i have them. I want to fill the days i dont have them with friends and fun things to do that i enjoy but also make me rounded and more interesting and i want to get to the point where i can be free and easy in my conversation with W because i have stopped caring completely.


Its rubbish and i hate it but it is what it is and i'm d@mn well going to make the best of it.


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Hi Jim, nice to hear how you're getting along. It sounds as though you're doing pretty well. Good to focus on work, your kids and enjoying friends. Also sounds like you are getting there in terms of acceptance too.

I agree the 'thought space' one is difficult and I struggle with that. Externally, we're doing well - and I hope our minds will 'catch up' with us one day!

Thanks for your recent posts....I've found them really useful :-)


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Hi Jim,

It sounds that you are moving in the right direction for yourself. Regarding your sitch, I think you are grieving and it's not so done as you say.

It all happen very recent, your W is still digesting all the choices she has made and you have no idea if she is better now or if she struggles being miserable yet.

Sometimes, we feel miserable not only because of our partner. There are a very good reason to think it all went wrong because the other person didn't do this or that. No, that you are not in the picture, she may well starting to think she is the one to blame for her own misery.

I Know you are hurt, as many of us. Your feelings and behavior are pretty normal, but life can turn around and unless you have really decided to move on, then it is not done yet.

There is a lot to happen for you to have this kind of closure. Or it will be some kind of carry over to the next R in your life. You are sarcastic, so you may be passive aggressive, I know, I am too. I read between the lines all your aggression, your pride is hurt and you are mixing with your R.

Don't give up just yet. You can move forward and deal with your life the best way you can. But don't give up. Try everything until you say there is nothing else I can do, then it will be just easy to move on. You own this to yourself so you can move to another chapter with a healthy mindset.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your words, but I really think you are letting your pride to speak louder then your own life.

You are getting stronger doing DB, does your W seems to notice yet? Maybe she is in dream land and did not notice, keep it up and once she starting getting back to reality, then she will see who you became. And it will eventually happen.

Take care Jim
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Jim

Look after Jim first and foremost as the father of two extra special bundles.

Find Jim and be strong, our wonderful Jim with his washing machine mind must not forget GAL.

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Jim,

How are you doing, don't be so down on yourself. R are complicated and if you read some of the success stories here you will find that many went through trouble times.

Give up only when you know you moved on. We all know how painful it is to wake up every day and face what we have now. But, at least we have one more day to think and try something else.

You are very smart, very capable of change. Eventually it will all hit the wall with your W. Nothing is permanent, and there is always a chance she will realize that many problems were not because of you, but because what she also have inside of her.

Try to distract yourself, do things to enjoy yourself even if it is simple things, force yourself to go out and see people.
Remember that life is also short.

I know you can do it, we all believe in you.

Love,
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Jim - how are things?


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Morning all.

Not much to update on my situation really,just posting to say that there's nothing wrong.

My GAL has been pretty good though had a quiet weekend without the kids. Mainly just sorted the house and did some exercise. Met up with mates a few times and went to a Meetup group which was fun.

Work is going well at the moment and I'm doing stuff which means on some days I barely think if my situation while im at work.

I've got a bit lazy on some of the domestic stuff, particularly bothering to cook for me so this needs to get better.

Still minimal contact with Wife (child handovers only really). I decided to go back to being friendly and light at these so said hello etc and attempt small talk (I mentioned the F1 GP was a good race), my wife wouldn't/couldn't engage on even this level. Oh well, it is what it is....

Could make D3s birthday party interesting though.

So I'm doing alright and am trying to sort a holiday for me and the kids. More immediately I have the kids for Easter and my family is coming to stay.

Have a good day all


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Sounds good Jim. Glad work is so absorbing for you at the moment, and lovely you have the kids and family for Easter too.

Interesting that your W is so unable to interact even on a basic level. I think it is best to just be consistent in your approach and I think light and pleasant is a good way to go. Time will tell, but I think in terms of the kids too, it's a good way to 'be' around your W.

Good job with the GAL! x


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Hi Jim. Nothing much to add. You seem strong and getting on with your life which is great. As others have said nothing is over until it's over for you Sometimes I think when a sitch seems black and white the most surprising things can happen. Positive thoughts your way mate. Take care. Rd

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Hi Jim! Just checking in to see how you are. It sounds like you are doing well and staying strong. I am keeping you in my positive thoughts and prayers, Jim. smile Happy thoughts coming your way!


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Good evening to you all.

Well it's been a beautifully sunny weekend here in the UK.

I had my kids for 3 days of it and I really enjoyed my time with them though we will be rationing chocolate eggs for about 6 months I reckon.

More Ceroc last week, lunch with a friend at work as well and about to go for a run. S1s birthday coming up on Thursday (how did he get so big)

Only contact with W was at child handovers, she still doesn't want to engage on any level. I asked a question about her running (she was in gym kit) and she killed the conversation.

She had to sign some banking forms in her maiden name as she has changed it which was the first time she has confirmed that to me, though neither of us mentioned it.

I've told her I'm planning on taking the kids on holiday and she is anxious about how I'll cope on my own - I'm not discussing it with her other than to say I'll cope. She's always been anxious about this sort of stuff and I knew it would concern her but I'm not going to let it affect my plans.

Having said all that she does seem genuinely happy though so I guess the split is working out well for her.


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I think YOU are doing well, too, Jim. You sound stronger with each post and more sure of yourself and your relationship with your kids. Good for you! I know I keep saying this, but you are always in my positive thoughts and prayers. I am rooting for you in your new life. smile


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I'm also rooting for you - and think 'Jim is great!' Lovely that you're planning a trip with the kids and deflecting the 'can you cope' worries.

Your W still perplexes me a little - in that there's no good reason for her to be so averse to simple 'passing the time of day' convos. But best for me not to wonder about that! Time will tell.

Is W happy in her new life? Well she's clearly presenting 'happy' to you. But we know the 'arc' of most A's and the stats are not in W and OM's favour.

But best not to wonder about any of this, and carry on being fabulous Jim, whom we've all grown so fond of.

ps. I'm glad to see you're still following me about and agreeing with me - I like that in a man! grin

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I am in the Jim fan club too.

Now upon reflection would you revise that 100 things list?

Jim you have a great holiday planned with your two lovely kids, I remember your WW anxiety when you took them to London before Xmas. That was a great time for you all. So no issues at all with that I think.

I absolutely know that Jim is going to have an amazing R with his kids whatever happens. I agree with Toots on the WW and OM issue. Now I am following Toots around and agreeing with her! Hmmmm, must be hypnosis..........

mind you its in my plan to get the whole board dancing!

Big holiday sunshine hugs to Jim and his two cuties! (((((((((Hugs)))))))

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/07/15 09:18 PM.

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You guys with all your dancing! I'm feeling left out. Actually there is a dance studio just around the corner from me and I've looked into classes. Just need to have a 6 week block open in order to sign up.

Jim - you are sounding good these days. Actually it's pretty gratifying to be on here and watch the "transition" points, when people go from newcomer blues to just hankering down and getting on with it. That brings joy to me, seeing my colleagues grow and become happy in their own selves.

Or is it the change in weather?

The holiday sounds like a great idea. Any thoughts on where to go? You guys are so lucky to have Europe on your doorstep.


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Morning all.

Well its still sunny here but that makes me increasingly suspicious that this will constitute our summer. All the more reason to get my holiday booked.

I'm planning on taking the kids to the canary islands, just looking for cheap (ish) simple and managable with a now S2 and soon to be D4 in tow. They love pools and beaches and so it should be really nice.

Gan, yes having all of Europe within a couple of hours flight is amazing. Door to door I can be in Rome, Paris, Berlin, Monaco, Prague, Geneva etc. Etc. All within about 6 hours

As for more immediate - it was S2s birthday this week so between that and Easter the little man didn't then understand why I tried serving him anything not made of chocolate. He was happy though.

Now got 5 nights and days without them (had 2, 3 more to go) and without really intending to I've ended up with social plans on every one of those nights so that's all good.

Today is gardening and painting D4s bedroom as soon as I stop stalling.

As for my W well no contact since the last handover and I don't expect any until the next one on Friday. I posted on mozzas thread about this but I do look back (with revisionist glasses admittedly - cyan tinted???) And wonder why I didn't spot the red flags but also how much of my hurt was about the loss of my routine, my stability and my dream rather than the loss of my wife for who she is.

In a lot of purely selfish ways I realise that my life is actually a lot better now, there is certainly more going on, and I'm feeling really positive about my career (I have a ridiculously elaborate plan but its potentially awesome). If I was to meet someone new who was a good fit for me (and me for her) and she was prepared to be fully involved with and love my kids then all in all this whole debacle would have ended up being incredibly positive for me and my life.

Never would have believed that 7 months ago...

Right enough procrastination - on with the day!!!


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Hi Jim. Incredibly positive post. Even the bit about looking back. I do spend way too much time on Google to research situations like us on this forum and the over riding thing I've found is we have to live our lives Yes we can be sad over what's happening and have anger for how we feel we were treated but we have to get on with it. Great to read a positive post mate. Take care. Rd

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Jim - you are a the social butterfly - good for you....

Really pleased to read your post, and glad you are feeling so positive. As RD said, whilst we may feel sad over what has happened, it's good to feel the present and the future has much to offer.

Sounds like S had a good week - Easter and birthday all in one. I can imagine he was a bit dismayed with peas and carrots after all that...

Jim, I am sure that in time if you want to, you would meet a lovely woman who would feel blessed to build a R with your kids. But for now - who knows how things will turn out, but it's good that your life contains many lovely elements.

Hope you enjoy your night out!

T x


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Hi Jim,

You sound really good and stronger. You have been spending really good time with your kids and is blessed to enjoy this time with the innocence of their age.

Looks like you are take a day at a time and your GAL is fantastic.

But, one thing that strikes me is that you seem to start giving up on this difficult situation. I know how hard it can be if there is no communication at all. But why is your WAS so mad with you after all this time? Was she always like this? A person that holds grudge for a long time? Or was there reasons that she can forget and forgive?

And what about DB? What are the changes on you that she can notice? What are the 180s that may not pass without notice? Is there anything that reminds her of the man she fell in love once? Because she did once, so it is in her memory somewhere.

Is there any way you can shake your sitch?

I do not see any D papers being served, why is that? If she wants you out of her life for good, why she did not serve you yet? Can this be a little sign of her commitment to her new R?
Or maybe she is testing the waters on the other side to see if this is what she really wants?

Do you have any clue of what is going on with her? Was she depressed? Is this other man very different then you?

Maybe I shouldn't be asking all this. Maybe it is a bit rude from me to make you recall all what hurts, but it seems all static, like the cheeseless tunnels.

Do you think you could share some info with us and then we all storm some ideas to start going where is the cheese?

Just some toughs to make you think a little bit. The first reason you came to this board was an attempt to save your M, your family. So, maybe time to time we all need to look at our sitch and analyse what is working and what is not.

It's not too late for your M. But sometimes, I feel that it may be too late because you already gave up on it. Is that the case?

I apologize if my questions are inconvenient, it's up to you to answer them or not. I just would like to understand where you at at this moment in time.

XOXO
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RD, Toots,

Thanks - yes I am feeling more positive. For me its very much about disentangling my M from the rest of my life and taking stock there.

When I did I found it was OK, I've made some changes and made much more of an effort to be outgoing and sociable and its improved a lot of things. The biggest shift has been to concentrate on what's going well.

I will also say that as a part time parent I'm much better rested which has helped.


Pink, you ask a lot of really good questions so thank you and in my case don't ever worry about asking too much.

I will do my best to answer but that'll be a bit later today, when I can use NY laptop rather than my phone.


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Originally Posted By: Jim0987
Gan, yes having all of Europe within a couple of hours flight is amazing. Door to door I can be in Rome, Paris, Berlin, Monaco, Prague, Geneva etc. Etc. All within about 6 hours

Well that just makes me jealous. I am en route to Tanzania via Dubai. At 6 hours I was not even west of Indonesia!

Looking forward to seeing your answers to Pink's questions.


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Jim

WW is frightened of facing her actions I think. Contact with you may hold a mirror to herself. In order to protect herself from introspection then she is keeping distant. Looks to me like the ostrich position.

I think you will just need to let this run its course in WW. Jim still can work on Jim though.

Keep on detaching.

I am very interested in those exciting work plans of yours and career goals, so that is where my interest is at the moment.

What are they Jim?

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/12/15 12:49 PM.

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Originally Posted By: gan
Originally Posted By: Jim0987
Gan, yes having all of Europe within a couple of hours flight is amazing. Door to door I can be in Rome, Paris, Berlin, Monaco, Prague, Geneva etc. Etc. All within about 6 hours

Well that just makes me jealous. I am en route to Tanzania via Dubai. At 6 hours I was not even west of Indonesia!

Looking forward to seeing your answers to Pink's questions.


Oh Gan, how exciting!

V


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Gan, north africa is that much further and Athens is about a 4 hour flight. Tanzania is somewhere I'd like to go though

V, I'm trying to work on Jim but at the same time accept who Jim is (and talk about Jim in the third person apparently)

In terms of the career stuff its a bit hard to explain, but the short version is that there is a lot of austerity enduced restructuring going on and I have an idea of how I can use the opportunity to basically restructure my whole industry. Even if it doesnt work the steps i need to pursue are going to be good for me and good for my current employer and it should be fun

Last edited by jim0987; 04/12/15 01:22 PM.

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Pink,

I'm going to try and answer your questions

Originally Posted By: Pink17
Hi Jim,

You sound really good and stronger. You have been spending really good time with your kids and is blessed to enjoy this time with the innocence of their age.

Looks like you are take a day at a time and your GAL is fantastic.

But, one thing that strikes me is that you seem to start giving up on this difficult situation. I know how hard it can be if there is no communication at all. But why is your WAS so mad with you after all this time? Was she always like this? A person that holds grudge for a long time? Or was there reasons that she can forget and forgive?

I dont know if she is still mad with me or if its just she doesnt want to engage with me. She isnt nasty to me when we see each other she just wont intiate conversation and shuts anything down unless it is a specific about the kids - which is then minimal

was she always like this? Not to me, but thinking back there have been plenty of people she has simply cut out of her life because of some percieved affront. Its one of the reasons she doesnt have many friends.

I've also seen her family (W, SIL & MIL) spend an entire day in indignent outrage about how some service was atrocious (by which they mean it didnt meet their, sometimes completely unrealistic, expectations)

I struggle to think of acts of forgiveness on her part at all. But there have things that i have done wrong and although i've apologised (repeatedly) I was never forgiven - She has said she has tried she 'just cant'





And what about DB? What are the changes on you that she can notice? What are the 180s that may not pass without notice? Is there anything that reminds her of the man she fell in love once? Because she did once, so it is in her memory somewhere.

I'm not sure anything i've done to improve myself would be noticed by her. some of it is about how i react to things but that would require her to engage. we dont have enough contact for her to notice that i'm doing more social things or feeling good about work. I've always been relatively slim and healthy and perfectly domesticated so again not sure there is much to notice.

And again I've always been an involved Dad so no real change to see there.

So i guess i'm saying my changes are about how i interact and that involve some level of engagement between us. Its also much more difficult with my wife because 'emotional flooding' is one of my biggest issues to contend with and this is much more pronounced with her



Is there any way you can shake your sitch?

Not really sure i can think of one so i'd welcome suggestions

I do not see any D papers being served, why is that? If she wants you out of her life for good, why she did not serve you yet? Can this be a little sign of her commitment to her new R?
Or maybe she is testing the waters on the other side to see if this is what she really wants?

I think the reason she hasn't served is to do with the UK system. within 2 years its a fault based system and she would have to legally document her complaints and then i have the opportunity to either accept them, challenge them or make counter claims. My honest opinion is that in every other sense we are seperated - she has even legally reverted to her maiden name and so i suspect she just doesnt see it as worth the hassle when instead she can wait 2 years and then go for a no fault divorce

As for her commitment to OM1, well he was properly hokey cokeying with their relationship and yet she kept pursuing him and so she is fully on board with him, i suspect irrespective of what he does (not that i have any way to know apart from about 6 weeks ago when she said they were dating)


Do you have any clue of what is going on with her? Was she depressed? Is this other man very different then you?

When I see her she looks happy, and at she has a certain 'glow' which to me suggests things with OM1 are going ok. She is certainly happier than she has been for a while.

She has built a really strong friendship with PF (poisonous friend - for those that dont remember) and she is back running again which she always loved but stopped when pregnant with D(STB4).

She was depressed for a really long time, I thought it was post natal depression and us having 2 young kids with no support network. I also think she never properly grieved for the loss of her dad. what i know now is she blames me for all of this (and i was rubbish/awful when it came to her dad's death)

As for OM1 I dont know much about him. He's relatively senior at work but no more so than me. I assume he's taller (W did complain i'm not tall enough - not that im short), I know he's dark haired, brown eyes, rougher edge, where as i'm blonde hair, blue eyed, clean shaven and look young. He does triathalons and cycles massive distances - I dont, i get bored with that kind of stuff and prefer squash.

She has described him as the Macho rugby type and thats in keeping with her exs who have generally been of the older, tall, dark and ruggedly handsome type which is a long way from me.

He lives in London and is apparently the centre of a big social circle so again quite different to me in that sense.

beyond that i know very little about him


Maybe I shouldn't be asking all this. Maybe it is a bit rude from me to make you recall all what hurts, but it seems all static, like the cheeseless tunnels.

Do you think you could share some info with us and then we all storm some ideas to start going where is the cheese?

Just some toughs to make you think a little bit. The first reason you came to this board was an attempt to save your M, your family. So, maybe time to time we all need to look at our sitch and analyse what is working and what is not.

It's not too late for your M. But sometimes, I feel that it may be too late because you already gave up on it. Is that the case?

see below

I apologize if my questions are inconvenient, it's up to you to answer them or not. I just would like to understand where you at at this moment in time.

XOXO
Pink



Pink, you asked if I've given up. The answer i think is both yes and no which i know doesnt make much sense but i'll try and explain.

If you listen to the description that my wife has given of me then I am far worse an abuser than Vs husband or Gg's husband or many of the other H's that get described her. and irrespective of whether i think this is true or not this is what she (and now her family) believe. When you put it in that context it makes sense that she wont engage with me or go through divorce proceedings because she would feel it just gives me an opportunity to abuse her more (not that i would/did but its how she feels).

When her mum was briefly polite to me, I know (from snooping at the time) that she had a go at her mum and that a month later she told her sister that she 'still hadnt forgiven her mum' because 'she let me back in'

Its clear to me that at the moment she wants nothing to do with me and the hurdles to any reconcilliation are enormous and would require a level of humility on the part of my wife that is beyond anything i've ever seen from her.

So I wouldnt say i've given up more that i recognise that its entirely unrealistic and that i should act on that basis. The damage has already been done there is nothing to save so now its about building a new life

This isnt the same as saying i'm closing the door to us as a couple or to say that i wouldnt want to see my family back together.

Right now all this means i'm trying to move forward with my life and to be the best person and best father I can. I will learn from my mistakes and i continue to go regularly to see my IC to try and understand some of the underlying things that drive and influence me so that i can be a truly good and compassionate person and to be comfortable and accepting of myself.

What I do know is that there is room in my life to share it with a significant other and that i want that. I'm also much clearer about the kind of person i want that to be. If my wife decides that she wants to be that person then i will gladly work with her to make sure we both have a happy and fulfilling life together but equally i'm not going to put my life on hold on the off chance she changes her mind and her current course.

And yes for me that might mean that somewhere down the line she does change her mind and want to reconcile but finds that someone else already has the position.

I know thats a lengthy post but you asked really good questions and i thought they deserved to be answered fully. Thanks for asking


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Hi Jim, I was interested to read your post above. And I must admit, your W's unwillingness to engage with you has always bothered me too. After all, things are resolved for the time being for you guys, and it is in the kids' best interests if you two are interacting as well as possible. There just doesn't seem to be any good reason for her to be like this - particularly as she has been the wayward one.

I can understand you about the D process, and that may be a reason to wait. I think my H may well go ahead and file as I have said I won't stand in his way. By that I mean I won't contest it if he files on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour (although it would be a bitter pill to swallow I admit.) If your W filed on these grounds would you contest it?

You say that there isn't an opportunity to see many of your changes. But I think your W will notice if you are feeling happier in yourself and enjoying life more. It may be in your sitch that 'life' will start to bring forth consequences for your W. Things may be going well in the R with OM for now, but we know the stats on this and the odds of long term success are slim. If things sour, this may be the point at which your W does break and start to feel some more humility. But I think your approach is right, and I'm pleased to read about the new things you are doing.

One other thing that stood out for me was her grief and your support of her following the loss of her dad. That is a difficult one. My cousin split up with her partner last year, following the death of her Mum. She felt her partner wasn't able to support her at all, and this was the last straw for her. Have you explored with your IC why you found this so hard. I can see that your W may find it hard to forgive, when you weren't able to be there for her at a time when she needed it. I'm not saying that to be critical at all, but I can see that must have been hard.

Anyway, I guess the overall message from me would be that there's always hope until or unless you decide to 'move on.' And it is clear from your posts that you are moving forward.

Are there ways to shake up your sitch? I still think it's not a bad idea to try interacting slightly differently with your W. Asking how she's doing one time. Not asking the next. Complimenting her on something one time. Being self contained another. Putting some cookies the kids baked in a little bag for her one time. And just monitoring how things go. I can't believe that she will remain so unresponsive for ever...

You're doing really well anyway Jim. And I always value your wise words and support on these boards. ((Jim))


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Jim, WW will know if you really did abuse her or not.

Firstly women and men who are abused find it hard to accept that they have been abused. Most usually there is huge denial and secondly there has to be many incidents before the denial falls from the eyes. Zeldas story is typical, eventually there is intimidation and acceptance of abuse. Frankly it is a very unpleasant label to apply unless it's true. Very damaging.

Easy talking of abuse is not possible, it is painful and hurtful. Neglect of a child can be abuse but of an adult not so much. Abuse is an almost deliberate attempt to control through making another feel less. Abuse is not casual, it cycles, it rants, it calls names and there are five or six levels of abuse. at the lowest level blaming, name calling and failing to take responsibility for self are key. All the way to cold stonewalling and failing to interact with contempt and dehumanising effect. Intimidation physically and mentally.

Jim, you appeared to be concerned in case there is abuse which you did not recognise. From where I sit and from what you say about your sitch, there may be neglect and lack of support. These are holes in the soul damaging but deliberately causing pain and hurt to control? I just can't see that in your descriptions.

I would be the first to call you on it.

WW knows this is R failures not abuse.

V

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In both mine and z case we both talked of how wonderful our h were and neither could see the ow nor the abuse. We defended and made excuses. We both refused nc, for months in my case 4 and allowed plenty of cake eating.

I had accepted the total blame and for a long time that total gulit. For a long time I had been conditioned to see myself and me needs as invisable. In fact I bought so totally into that I still feel suprised and unable to say thanks, when others compliment me. It sticks and I can find a dozen ways to brush it off.

Last night a casual aquaintence said hello I was unfocused and almost flaked on saying so thing as simple as hello. One of h major criticisms, but h then took that to another level and critiqued your whole performance to be bad and catastrophised it into a huge deal by transferring his spinning onto you. That shows some truth to their spew, but how the level huge it ends in your head.

Abuse comes in cycles. Up and down. It's often bulit upon, veiled threats become hitting.
Punishment and statements of punishments are a big red flag.

Early on when I stated I had a need to have h not go on a trip at a particular time because I felt I needed support. H stated "how I was selfish ruining ss holiday, how ss need for holiday was far greater than my need to feel safe and loved. How to be a nice person they needed to go on the trip which I needed to give my blessing" blah blah
Later when I was upset and got a little angry because I talked of my needs not being met via phone, h returned home on the appointed day, stating I was coming home Wednesday but because you were angry and nasty by phone I punished you by staying away. When I was going to come home early.

See the dynamic?
I asked for need, then there were great excuses why and huge negiations over it making me think I might get a need met, but al, the while its manipulation to get to the end result of h stating after h got his trip. You were nasty I will deprive you your need and gloat to your face I didn't meet it.

This leads the punished to feel lousy and want to stand up, then abuser gets the fight they want because they have you in an emotional place. They can then put some more blame as "you started it" not their holding out pa on what you asked for.
They hide behind I could change my mind, I'm confused, conflicted. Untill what you need is irrelevant.

Then once it's irrelevant you say well it's past now anyways, and then the excuses start on both sides. They usually say I didn't know it was that important, or that I was expected to consider your needs as that's not what we agreed to. Or your just disagreeable because you emtionally weak and cannot get your self together because your a flake.

I hope that helps with specific example of how pa abuse cycles start.

My take on my h and his nc stance and your wife of no engagement is they know how they started the a and if they allow you In its a road leading back in.
My h I think is also all about control, he feels total in control if he doesn't answer a call or a text.


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Hi Jim,

Thanks for answering my questions. I totally get when you say that it is a hard spot you are in. So, in my opinion, you are doing what is right for you at this moment.

I posted a comment on Toots page today that is about a friend that his wife cheated on him, left him heart broken, then they D and she moved to another state. During the first year they had some contact and then it became very minimal and there were no kids involved.

So, she reappear from the ashes, they start talking and somehow they agreed to go into MC to help them to get back together.

He loves her till this day and she told him that she still loves him and that she made a huge mistake, that she was confused in her life and most of what happen had anything to do with him, but with herself.

So, if would say, I thought that they were done for good, forever, and yet here they are, trying to get back together even after the divorce.

I applaud you for being strong enough to stand for yourself and your life. I applaud you for making a lot of effort to be a good father for your little ones. I applaud you for the work you are putting on yourself to became a better person. I applaud you for fighting for family values.

We are not perfect in any meaning of the word, but we are in a direction to learn from our mistakes and be better and this is part of our character. That's why we are here. Maybe we lost our direction on the dance floor, but we are back in class to get our balance back.

While our Ss are still holding grudge, or simple afraid of facing the wrong doing that is fulfilling their lives right now. The way a coward show their strength is attacking first and not leaving any room around them. It makes them to feel in control of themselves and the situation.

The lies beneath the cold cover is something that mold your path, an suffocate you somewhere in time.

Be strong Jim, you are doing the right thing and if not with your W, there may be someone else that will share a more special Jim, the one that learned a lot about love, R.

Hope you are having a good day.

(((((((J))))))))

*** Bond, blue eyes, clean face and looking young. Oh mine, now I wish I was at least a decade younger.

XOXO
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Well Good Evening Folks,

Now the little ones are tucked up in bed and im waiting for my dinner to cook i thought i'd post an update because and......


wait for it.............


This week there was actual interaction!!!!!!!!!

I know i was surprised to.

now before anyone gets carried away its not that exciting, in fact its probably somewhere on the boring side of mundane but it was different none the less - i mean there was conversation and everything. I'm documenting it more because its different than because its meaningful.

So monday morning at about 05:40 i get a text asking if i can pickup the kids from XWs house and get them ready for nursery as she was up all night with food poisoning. I reply 'of course' and asked if she needed me to get her anything, she said no.

a couple of other basic texts back and forward, and a brief conversation about whats made her ill when i collect the kids.

Monday afternoon, D3s nursery rings to say she needs picking up because shes been ill. I'm in the middle of presenting a load of stuff at work and so ring XW to see if she is up to it, she says not really but she will.

I did say i would leave work to do it but XW says its ok, but can S2 stay at my house. So I cancel my evening plans, (I did mention this in passing) and S2 stays with me - hes fine but a little confused.

a couple of texts back and forth about how XW and D3 are doing on the tuesday. when i collect D3 from XWs house that evening i ask hows shes feeling and we just chat a little bit (maybe 3 minutes)

Thursday, we get told about D3s school place so a brief text exchange about that and i get a thank you for sorting things and for telling her about it straight away.

Today, collected the kids and the whole handover was chatty and positive with generic salutations like 'Hi' and 'Have a good weekend'. maybe 5 minutes and idle meaningless chit chat through out.

If you've followed my situation this is all new as XW has barely been able to look at me let alone speak to me since BD. it represents a slight momentary reduction in her fortifications but I wouldnt read anymore into it than that, it was definitely in vaguely aquainted neighbour territory rather than anything more than that.

So anyways now i have the kids for the weekend (and i've had S2 3 of the last 4 nights as well) and its supposed to be sunny so maybe some time in the garden.

Other than that GAL plans last weekend were good apart from the cancellation on monday but i got extra time with S2 which definitely is a good trade off.

Somehow i've really strained my hamstring (it seriously hurts to drive) and so thats means ive got to cancel some other plans, but so be it.

Still it means i can now catch up on a couple of box sets

And my dinner is now ready. It smells properly delicious.


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Hi Jim - I knew it!! I was sure your W couldn't maintain almost zero interaction indefinitely. And whilst you say it is pretty mundane - it's certainly a change.

It will be interesting to see if it continues. Either the wall may go back up, or this may become a new way of interacting with each other. I hope it's the latter.

I wonder whether her being ill, and you being so willing to help when she needed help, was a contributing factor? Who knows. But I'm glad there's been a shift, and it's nicer for everyone if things are on a more 'normal' footing - with passing the time of day convos at pick up and so on.

Sorry to hear about your leg though - hope it's all better soon. And have a good weekend. :-)


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No expectations ok?

Chill pill. This is for your lovely little ones, Jim co parenting will need this.

I can smell your dinner from here, so. Menu? Was there cheeeeeese

Was it in the cheese less tunnels?

Gently........

Tons

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 04/17/15 10:41 PM.

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From outside it seems that this OM does nothing for her. I understand that the kids are hers but if she was ill, he could at least handle the daycare stuff.

Yet she asked you. And the Universe works wonderfully when it comes to make the puzzle pieces to set in the right place.

It may sound mundane what just happen, but in a way she was caught in a situation to need your help and she sure tough about her options before asking you.

Another thing is that she was also looking for sympathy. She is ill and she wants you to know that.

Today, I went to this parenting class dictated by the court. One of the subjects was that we need to be very careful when engaging in another R. They pinpoint that the second M, R is largely affected by D, and most likely for the ones that get out of one R and jump into another right away. People do that without working the issues in themselves and their old R, and it is like poison for the new R.

You never know when the sand castle is falling. When things are new, they look great. No one is throwing up all night or with a brutal diarrhea and stomach pain. When this happen, then life happen and the real people get their masks off.

That is when the new R start the test of survival. The only problem is that it's built on sand and won't have much to hold on to.

Well, I guess that's why this whole DBing is to be seem as a Marathon. And the book says over and over to be patient, patient and more patient.

Like you said it could be nothing, but it is a start. She can count on you, you were the one she shared the real M, real Life. It was probably easier to run to you telling she was sick then feel like a problem to someone else.

Stay strong and give the little ones a lot of hugs and kisses. This age go by fast and they don't want so many hugs and kisses anymore. You may see a lot yet to come Jim!

Have a lovely weekend. Will think about London, my S17 loved it.

Love,
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Good Evening,

The kids have gone back and there was again some interaction. Although it was far less chatty and much more business like but having said that i think i was a bit disinterested.

we did talk about avfew kid related things and i said i would email her with a few changes i'd like to request to the schedule and got a 'well you can ask' response then she got in the car without another word.

so interaction polite enough but certainly not friendly.

Other news - so last night after a bit more thought on things I decide to register on a dating site. I've been feeling for a while now that the only reason I wasnt doing anything like that was because of some mixture of a miniscule hope that my situation might turn around and fear about what it might mean (genuinely no clue what im doing in the dating world).

I feel that if im if my focus is truly on me and my life then i shouldnt be doing or not doing things on the basis of what my XW wife might think. I can probably explain more about my thinking if anyones interested.

So I did that and one first profiles that pops up is my XW - I guess things with OM arent as good as I had assumed.

I dont think this changes anything substantially as the fundamental is that she still doesnt want much to do with me and even if she did she wouldnt act on it - however its a change none the less.


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Jim

That is so silly WW and our lovely Jim on the same site for dating.

Well cat amount the pigeons then.

I am sure you are right about OM.

V


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Hi Jim. Just goes to show , you never really know what's going on in tWAS lives

Jim I would advice caution with expectations but I know you are aware of this

For me , any change is good. it means things can be done differently

Life is not good with OM if she's on a dating site !!!!!! I have assume a lot with my W and OM and even my L/C tells me that it can't all be true

Good to hear of change Jim Take care. Rd

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Hi Jim - interesting....obviously life with OM wasn't all candy floss and popsicles then.

That may partly account for your W's rather warmed up approach. When all was happy with OM, it was easy to see you as awful. If things have gone pear-shaped with OM, it may have rubbed the sheen off your 'awfulness' in her eyes.

Good luck with the dating venture too. The only bit of your post I would comment on is this part...

"the fundamental is that she still doesnt want much to do with me and even if she did she wouldnt act on it - however its a change none the less."

And only to say that I think the part in red is a touch of mindreading. Who knows what she may or may not do. It is still relatively early in your sitch, and I don't think things are by any means hopeless lovely Jim.

xx


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Thanks for the input.

Toots, yes it is a bit of mind reading but I guess it comes from experience of my XW and a reasonable assessment of some other factors.

Either way I don't want to read anything into this other than her being active on a dating site.


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What if she's on a dating site to see if you are? If OM is? As a joke? What if PF created the account for her some time ago? Just a few ideas to remind you not to read too much into it. There are many scenarios and the real one might be very different from what you considered so far.

What interests me more is that you are on a dating site. As you know, I'm ready to flirt and date, yet I can't get myself registered on any of this. The official reason is that I don't feel ready to present myself as "available" because my WW could rock my boat with a bat of an eyelash. Hence, I leave encounters to chance and manage expectations. Another reason is that I don't want WW to see that I've a profile there. I can't say exactly why, but it's probably a mix of not really wanting to suggest that I moved on, not giving her ground for early D based on cheating (in my jurisdiction), not letting her know that I'm still single. My father and my IC might add that I'm actually afraid to really meet anyone.But it seems like you have none of these qualms. Or do you? Did you have any resistance to creating your profile? Do you present yourself as single and looking for a serious R? I'm curious to know more.

By the way, since you say you're also clueless about dating, let me recommend you, as I've done for others here, to read Models by Mark Manson. In short, it's the dating version of NMMNG. It's in line with everything I read and even what I hear from my IC.


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Hi Mozza,

yes i know not to read anything into it and whilst its made me think im not going to change what I'm doing.

I'm going to attempt to answer some of your questions but cant gurantee i'll be able to explain myself very well.

So I have all of the same qualms, including ones about what will my wife think.

I would say and i've spent a while trying to figure out how much is about fear of rejection. The biggest resistance i had in creating a profile was thinking about what i could say that wouldnt make me seem weird or creepy or arrogant or anything else. My base assumption has always been about not feeling good enough but at the same time I realise the only way to overcome that fear is to take on that fear.

Avoiding things because I was afraid of rejection (and at its core feel shame about who i am) is part of what got me into this mess in the first place so I didnt want to perpetuate the cycle.

As a sidebar i had an unprompted 20 minute lecture from my Dad about how im not good enough as a parent last week - he's been great through my situation but to me theres no doubt where my sense of inadequacy originates.

So back on your questions.

One factor is that I know that my life at the moment isnt likely to lead to many chance encounters and certainly not ones where i would feel confident enough to approach (I applaud your efforts in this area) i also do want my social efforts to be clouded in that way, so online seemed sensible.

In terms of my profile, I've said i'm seperated and that i have kids so im not hiding anything in that sense.In terms of what i'm looking for I've not said too much but yes I've said i want a relationship because ultimately I do.

I now realise that its more about the life i want, the kind of relationship i want and the kind of person i want to be with. If that relationship is with my XW then great if not, then also great.

Amongst my biggest hesitations have been about whether i'm still just reacting with jealous or some dependency but i dont think i am and wouldnt know truly how i would know that for certain. Having registered i definitely dont think its the jealousy.

Anyway i hope that sort of answers

By the way i've ordered that book.


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Jim

I am interested in the conversation with your D. Were the critisms he levelled at you perhaps reminiscent of his own failings?


What else does he launch into a monologue about?

What about mum and her thoughts on dad?

V


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Hi Jim,

That's really something to find WW on a dating site. Did you find out how long time is she part of this site?

I was doing some digging in my H's OW and I found she is a dating site in France. I did not say anything to my H, maybe he knows about it. But it is interesting that she keeps the profile there, maybe laziness, who knows. She is a married woman, has a R with my H and has a profile on a dating site. Crazy ah!

Like Toots said, it's a bit early on your sitch. But again, you know about your WW a little more then we do.

I am happy you are trying some other things, other ways to keep your life interesting. Hope you are ready for whatever comes your way. If not, I guess you will find out.

Regarding your Dad... I would say, take under consideration that life was probably different for him. His values are not the same as yours. The world he did grow up was a different one then yours. His life was built on what was given to him by others and he became the man he is, and so he did with you.

Take what is best from whatever he says to you. Sometimes the ones that love us the most are also the ones that hurt us the most. In his way of caring for you, giving you advice of how not to feel like a failure as a father (like the way he may feel), he goes a little too far with his words.

Some man grow up to be tough, but then they lack to be sensitive. Maybe you can look at him and take what is best of all he is trying to say. Remember he is just a human being, not right, not wrong... just like you, saying his convictions from what life has been teaching him. Make it simple, then you won't get hurt.

Hope you have good luck with the dating adventure. It's nice to see that you know what you want from a new R, a new person. I have no clue of what I want.

Best to you. Keep us posted, I am curious.

XOXO,
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Hi, Jim. Sounds like the interactions have been more than what you have gotten in the past. That could be a good thing. Weird you found her on a dating site you were on. That would be unsettling for me, but you seem to have handled it well.

Sending you positive thoughts and prayers from way over here. smile


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Hey Jim....you've been quiet lately on the boards. How are things going my friend? Have you been busy with those lovely little ones this week?

Any dating updates? Hope all is well and you have nice plans for the weekend xx


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JIm, just checking in after a bit of a break. Wow - some...movement...for you. Good for you for registering on the dating site and how interesting to discover WW there! I've often wondered if I would encounter my H on a site if I did the same. You seem to be taking it in your stride, which is excellent.

Much as I want to feel love and connection with a man again, I don't think I'm in any place to register on a dating site yet. Let us know how you get on!


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Hi Jim. How's things. You've been quiet. Too busy dating ? When your ready , give us an update.

Take care mate. Rd

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Jim

When you are quiet, I suspect introspection and disappearing up nethers.

Would you mind putting my thoughts and worries to bed and POST.

V


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Hi All. Thanks for checking in on me.

I'm doing good thanks, apart from the leg (nerve injury rather than muscular and physio reckons 4 to 6 weeks - that will teach me)

So things to update on, well work is still good and there are a few more things developing on my elaborate plan. Its a long term plan but every step is needed, even the ones that fail.

I've done a few more bits round the house and did some decorating in D3s (who will very soon be D4) bedroom. She will be so excited when she sees it.

my XW has texted me or emailed me a couple of times, always logistical or child related and some of it was because I had to ask her to swap some childcare days, but some of it has been slightly less cold and she has volunteered some information about what shes up to. It seems like our interaction is normalising a little bit in our seperate lives which has to be better for the kids.

D3 is being a little more vocal about wanting mummy and daddy to live together

On the GAL front well ive been out a few times with old friends and the local meetup group i've joined so thats been good fun. I might have overdone it a little bit and so need to make sure i get adequate sleep. Im a big fan of sleep generally.

And on the dating front i'd love to say that its all amazing but theres not really much to report except for fact that both my XW and her PF came up as suggested matches for me, which mildly amused me not least because I know that PF is most definitely not my type. I will also say that a surprising proportion of the women in my area seem remarkably jaded.

So thats my update.

V, i just want to tackle your question about the conversation with my dad, who has been very been supportive in my situation.

A lot of my parenting has been about deliberately not doing what my parents did because I dont think i had particularly good childhood. It wasnt bad, and we were taken care of but we certainly made to 'know our place' and this was the main thrust of my dads criticism the other day - that i'm too indulgent of D3 and that she doesnt 'know her place'.

For the most part i ignored him, I certainly learnt a long time ago that there is no point arguing, and i felt ok with that - more so than in previous because i'm more accepting of who my dad is and more able to see the positives in him.

I did find that for the next couple of days though I was a bit stricter with so obviously it did have some affect on me. This was the main topic of discussion at my most recent IC appointment.

Figuring out my relationship with my dad has been something that has been of tremendous value to me and has been real proof to me that i can change the dynamic of a relationship without talking to the other person about it or them having even the slightest willingness to change.

Anyway thats me for now. Take care all


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PF - oh no!! Jim, I'm sure there are some great women in your locale. But they may just not be on that site right now. Lovely to hear about your decorating progress. It is so great when kids are so excited about their rooms. SS was really pleased to be able to choose a colour for his room when he was about nine. He chose a vibrant turquoise...which I was privately a bit doubtful about but of course never said....but looked lovely!

As for your Dad. We never quite lose that parental dynamic do we? My Dad just doesn't listen sometimes....drives me nuts. Have you ever had a look at David Servan-Screiver's STABEN technique? I have found his stuff helpful. The principle is to be assertive with 'difficult' convos, without alienating someone. The phrase that popped into my head with your Dad was - Thanks for your perspective Dad - I appreciate it. I'll give that some thought...

Sounds like you are doing well anyway - and glad that the 'normalising' with your W has continued. I agree - who knows where your sitch might go - but you know already that you will be co-parents and it is good for that in any case.

Take care Jim ((Jim))


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Hi Jim

I totally understand the Dad thing, mine was away 9 months out of 12 in my childhood so really left me wanting in the understanding fatherhood thing. I think that led to me making some really fundamental goofups at times. Better now I've found my own way as well as taming the "black dog".

I certainly used to feel like s had to follow the way my childhood had been, very very strict grandparents tempered by my mother who while she loved me as much as it was possible to do was overindulgent and led to me having some weight and health issues as a boy - she was also often in hospital throughout my childhood leaving me with said grandparents and effictively taking care of them from 7.

Over the past 9 months I realised the obvious that s isnt young me and he and I have arived at a dynamic by talking, discussing and trying (as much as possible) to agree on things. We're presently trying to work through issues he has with transitioning when doing something (say gaming) and its time to go out and do something he'll delay and not move or tantrum. Previously I'd have gone off the deep end, warned of consequences or loss of privileges and generally been heavy handed (not physically - emotionally) now I do the opposite and go calm and talk it through.

Its difficult to break patterns and you and only you know your kids the best, I just at some point realised I'd never thought to actually talk to s and just expected him to understand what we needed to do.

As to knowing our place, I try to think and instill that basic politeness is a given but respect is earned (a huge issue between s and fil/mil right now - s doesnt want to see them and definitely doesnt respect fil which is none of my doing but Im trying to work with him to be polite and I have no interest in him being cut off from grandparents even if they dont like me). Its difficult for generation gaps to be bridged but ultimately your Dad should respect you and that you are their dad and will always do whats best for them.

Go Jim smile

As to the sitch Im glad to see co-parenting is working well, as we all say (T-shirts coming soon) "I Agree With Toots" smile who knows what will happen in the future. W told me she would have thought it laughable to talk with me let alone anything else last year, that my voice was like nails on a blackboard to her. Certainly not saying we're a done deal or even approaching piecing yet but certainly things do change.

Cheers matey.


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We do all need those 'I agree with Toots' t-shirts. Walking round town people will have no clue what its referring to though

I'm OK with the stuff on my dad. I get a much better sense of who he is and how I want to relate to him. Its not great to have my parenting criticised but at the same time im happy with my relationship with my kids.

Generally this has all been part of my learning process, and as has been said a few times to me - we need these challenges to improve ourselves.

On a GAL front, I had dinner with a friend tonight who happens to be very smart, very beautiful and very funny. She's also happily married so there was nothing more to it but it was nice to just be able to enjoy that kind of evening and be reminded that I have something to offer.


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Jim

A guy who has done this much work has plenty to offer!

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Jim,

Think that it is always better to have someone that care enough to even criticize then have no one. My dad was there, loved me on the distance, I know he did and a lot. He cared on his own way, but no criticism and no word at all. The absence is a hole in my heart and my life.

During sessions with my IC, he mention that I had some expectations that my H would do the same as my father. What in some ways undermined my R with him at times, always think that I was not important enough for him.

You are in no doubt doing what is best for you, your dad and your kids. You are maturing, growing up a lot. It's unfortunately that we are not born with all the life knowledge, but it is admirable how life can teach us to be better.

Regarding the dating stuff, I agree with all the above, you have a lot to offer and one of these days a lucky lady will put her eyes on you. I remember you sad blond and blue eyes. I always tough it is a gorgeous image.

What about traveling? Are there any work plans to go somewhere? Who knows, maybe your lady is somewhere in the world.

Happy things have been better with WW. She may start seeing the changes on you. Maybe she is even curious. And, if you saw her on the dating site, then she can also see you. I wonder what she thinks about that.

And count me in for the T-shirt, Toots is smart and I don't want to pass the "I agree w/Toots shirt". Love the way you said you have decorated your D room. It's so attractive to hear a man talking about decorating. It's amazing how a guy becomes more human when caring that way. She will be trilled and will know she is the luckiest D in the world for having you as her dad.

XOXO,
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Jim,

Just checking in on ya. Yeah, being on the dating sites, I see that there's a lot of self entitlement. Anyway, as someone at work told me, you don't need to find someone on the site, you've got everything going for you. Good dad, job, place to live, responsible, etc.


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Sense of humour and charm, meditative, giraffe earsy....


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Awesome that you are decorating your D's room and doing so well. You have really grown in your time on the page and I agree with V that you certainly have a lot to offer someone. smile


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Thank you all for the nice comments

So i've updated my signature slightly just because my kids are now older and there is the continuing OM1 mystery

D4 liked her bedroom which was good but we had a few behavioural issues at the same time - not listening, very demanding and a bit of tantrum at points. such fun frown

she does keep saying that she misses mummy and that she wants to go back to mummy's which is upseting (and really got to me last night) though sometimes i get the sense she does it just because as a response to times when she hasnt got her way or i've had to tell her off for something.

I have the kids for the long bank holiday weekend so it will settle down a little bit.

I've had a few interactions with my XW just to sort some practical arrangements and i was trying to be considerate towards her with regard to D4's birthday. generally though i would say its still quite cold and businesslike with her ignoring striaghtforward questions for 24hrs plus. Its frustrating but it is what it is and i just need to accept that.


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Hi Jim. You seem be doing well and it must be hard to hear those words from D4
But you understand where they are coming from. Your last statement sums up most of our sitchs Hard but true. Take care mate. Rd

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Hi Jim. You seem be doing well and it must be hard to hear those words from D4
But you understand where they are coming from. Your last statement sums up most of our sitchs Hard but true. Take care mate. Rd

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Hi Jim. You seem be doing well and it must be hard to hear those words from D4
But you understand where they are coming from. Your last statement sums up most of our sitchs Hard but true. Take care mate. Rd

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Hi Jim. You seem be doing well and it must be hard to hear those words from D4
But you understand where they are coming from. Your last statement sums up most of our sitchs Hard but true. Take care mate. Rd

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Sorry not sure what happened !!!!!!

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You must have really really really really meant it RD!

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((((Jim))))...hang in there. Some things are very hard to accept, but once we do, it gets easier. I have been there, done that and I PROMISE it gets easier. smile


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How goes it Jim? I hope you had a lovely bank holiday weekend, and your work week is going well. Do you have any more decorating plans afoot? Hope those lovely little ones are doing okay. How have interactions been with W lately - any developments?

Looking forward to hearing from you.... (((Jim)))


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Jim

I always concern myself with a quiet Jim. He is usually ruminating..........


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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Jim

I always concern myself with a quiet Jim. He is usually ruminating..........

V
Hello Jim,

I agree with V. I hope you're okay, maybe just extra-busy.

Take care.

Bob


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Nah...I think things for Jim have tipped. I have visions of him off living and loving life, moving forward with his career plans and enjoying time with the kiddos. Hoping for a positive update, Jim.


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Thinking of you today, my friend. Hoping that you are out there GAL'ing and spending time with your kids and just having a heck of a time. Please update when you can. smile


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Hi all,

Thanks for checking and the speculation. It made me tempted to leave an update and see whether a properly outlandish theory might emerge smile

Its been a busy week or so and I'd like to think that Gan is closer to whats been happening with me but there has been a fair chunk of introspection about a few things.

So on the good stuff well I've had the kids for most of the last week and we have filled it with day trips and baking and visiting family so its been nice, particularly the bank holiday -we had a really really good day and the kids were in such a good mood when i dropped them round to my XW at the end of the day.

Work is good, There's some good progess on a couple of things though they could still implode. Its difficult to say much more here. There are a couple of longstanding problems that need to be but i'm confident they will get sorted.

Less good stuff - the physio and I still havent worked out what is wrong with my leg but it is slowly getting better. In the meantime though it means all dancing/squash/yoga and running has all had to stop (for four weeks now frown )

The other less good is D4's behaviour. its deteriorating and i'm not really sure why or exactly what to do about it other than enforce boundaries and then talk to her when she is calmer. A lot of the time she talks about missing mummy but i dont how much of this is genuine reaction. I feel like i should talk to XW about it but i dont want to give the impression that i cant handle things.

So interaction with my XW has been much more normalised (tolerable coworker normal rather than friendly). handovers have involved basic pleasantries and XW has even volunteered information about her movements. I'm being postive all the time with her and it has mixed responses but its not about the reaction for me.

As for the introspection, well thats been about where i am in the scheme of things. I'm trying to move on with my life as best I can and i have a good idea of what i want from it. I've also confirmed that I definitely seem to have a type for women i'm attracted to.

I do still love my XW and I always will - despite everything i dont see that changing and I will always think we were a good match. I told my brother (much to his despair) that i married the right person for the right reasons, it just hasnt worked out how i wanted.

If my XW decides she wants to try and make things work then at the moment i'm open to and would like that (despite some reservations) but i'm basing all my decisions and plans on the basis that wont happen

what I can choose to do instead is accept whats happened (the headspace acceptance pack actually helped on this) and move on. I do still feel my mood drop when I think about my XW with someone else but its less of a drop and shorter in duration.

I havent completely removed my concerns about some of her complaints about me, but some of it I can recognise and adjust, some of it i now see was more about her, but most of it was much more about the dynamic, and some of the discussions on these boards has really helped me to understand that.

So all in all, I think i'm doing good and am very grateful for the support i've recieved here.

Hope you are all well and having a good [INSERT REFERENCE RELATIVE TO TIME ZONE]


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Hi Jim. Your sounding good mate. Good to see your leaving the door open for W in some way. D4 must be hard but at the end of the day she's a baby and Thai must be hard for her. I hope you get it sorted for all your sakes. Take mate. Rd

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So glad to see you posting again. I pray and send positive vibes your way every single day. You are on my list, my friend! wink Thanks for popping by my thread...I always appreciate your insight. Molly says to send a tail wag your way. Take care, Jim!


Me 52, H53
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Hello Jim - it sounds like you are in a pretty positive and steady place. Glad to hear you are finding work rewarding, and you seem pretty settled in terms of your feelings towards your W.

WRT D4, I'm not sure whether you read the stuff that Mozza posted about his technique with the kids - of really, really making them feel that they have been heard. I was interested to read it, and he thought it had made quite a difference....just in case that's of interest. It was what popped into my head when I read your post above.

I agree it's probably best to just try and tackle it yourself if you can. Things have warmed up a little with your W, but she may take any convo as inference that it's the sitch (ie 'her fault') that has caused D's behaviour to change. Just MHO anyway, and I'm by no means an experienced parent!!

Glad to hear you are doing okay, and hope you manage to get things sorted with your knee soon too. Take care Jim :-)


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Originally Posted By: jim0987
I do still love my XW and I always will - despite everything i dont see that changing and I will always think we were a good match. I told my brother (much to his despair) that i married the right person for the right reasons, it just hasnt worked out how i wanted.

I'm with you on this one. It would be easier if it weren't true....
Hope the leg gets better quickly. Presumably your foot is all better now?


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Evening,

I've posted around a little bit and thought I should update my thread

Thanks for asking about my leg gan - its getting better and hopefully within a couple of weeks i might be able to start light exercise again. The foot is all better but the physio has said that its probably not a coincidence that its the same leg.

In terms of my situation well there are two parrallel tracks - the relationship with my XW and then what is happening elsewhere

on the elsewhere first then i've been doing a reasonable job of building up some more social connections to the extent that there are very few days when i dont either have the kids or a social plan, so thats a nice problem to have. sometimes i do have to question the sense of my decision making though.

on the XW front - well the interaction is still odd and there are still big unnecessary delays in communications about the kids. either 1) she has completely changed her relationship with her phone or (and much more likely) 2) messages from me are ignored for a while usually a day or two.

We had D4's birthday party at the weekend and it went well. D4 was very happy and it was the longest XW and I have been in the same room since probably BD. we chatted a little but not too much and so it was friendly enough and civil. we had a couple of moments with the kids where it was almost like our normal family which were nice but accompanied by that pang of regret over the situation.

PF was there, i didnt know she was coming but expected, I chatted to her and we talked about our respective jobs and to be honest it now means PF knows more about what is happening in my life than XW

After the party XW very reluctantly invited me back to hers so that we could both be present while D4 opened presents. again there was some casual chat but it was mostly practical kid stuff. I was only there maybe 45 minutes but it was clear she was keen for me to leave ASAP so i said my goodbyes and left.

So all in all i think it was very positive for D4, as it showed her that we could both be involved in her life without there being too much in the way of difficulty bing between us. There is also no denying things are warmer from XW but at the moment thats a bit like comparing summer and winter in the antartic, yes the difference is massive but its still covered in ice and freezing B****y cold!!


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Hi Jim. Little acorns mate. Rome wasn't built in a day. Can't think of anymore but you get the drift. With D4 sounds like she had a great day which is all important. Your doing well mate and doing all you can. Also you sound really positive so kudos for that.


Take care. Rd

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Hi Jim, I also think that sounds pretty positive - and nice for your D4 that you were both able to do that - bless her!!

I hear what you are saying about 'arctic comparisons' but I agree with RD, the overall trend is a good one - albeit gentle and slow - but the direction of travel is positive. And as you say, a massive difference from even just a few months ago.

Who knows what that may ultimately mean for your sitch, but in coparenting terms it's positive for sure. Good that you were able to have a chat with PF too. That will all get fed back to your W of course. I trickle things to people who are in contact with H, and I imagine he gets to know about them and sees me as coping and maybe thriving.

Why do you question some of the choices you are making at the moment? It sounds to me like you are making good choices. You're doing well at GAL, and I think that benefits us so much in the longer term. I realise I had become quite insular and family focused - to the detriment of maintaining and building friendships. I don't want to let that happen again and I think that's a positive no matter what.

Glad you are on the mend - yoga and ceroc again soon maybe. Take care Jim. You are a great guy and I so often appreciate your insight on these boards. I think you have come a long way. Take care (((Jim)))


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I agree with Toots wink

This phrase by you - "Sometimes i do have to question the sense of my decision making though" - is intriguing. What's going on there?


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Now I'm the one agreeing with Toots! LOL Sounds like some positive direction and I'm happy for you. Continuing to send positive thoughts and vibes your way, along with lots of tail wags from Molly. Take care of yourself, Jim!


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Its pretty much compulsory to agree with Toots, it might even be one if the forum rules smile

I thought back and its a huge difference from even the start of this thread, though admittedly it has lasted nearly 2 months now. So definitely warmer which has to be good for the kids (not that you'd believe it as D4 has been really upset about the S this week).

In theory I could start exercising probably next week but I'm taking the kids to the med for a holiday in a couple of weeks so probably won't risk anything until I get back.

So out for dinner tonight, shorter work day tomorrow and then have the little ones for the weekend. Not too bad I'd say smile

Quick question for which I'd like your view. my XW is doing a big charity thing at the weekend. She doesn't know I know about it. Do I wish her luck, which is normal but means she will question how I know (her justgiving page emailed my step mum) or just carry on as if I don't know? I feel the latter is best but thought I'd take some expert advice.

Ta

Have a good evening y'all


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Hi Jim. sounds like a great weekend ahead. Re the W thing I would say anything because it could find her cause to think you are snooping far from an expert but just my penny's worth.

The slow warming is far better than a quick rush home No expectations but let's see where the next couple of months takes us.


Take care mate. Rd

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Hi Jim, sounds like some nice things are coming up for you. Sorry D4 is having a tough week with things...

I don't see any harm in wishing your W luck. After all, you weren't snooping. Your stepmum mentioned it. You could always say - hey, good luck with the sky dive dressed as a Llama - stepmum mentioned she got an email from Just Giving. Could you sponsor on behalf of the kids maybe?

You may feel that's too much - but I don't see the harm in mentioning it...


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Jim

Just checking in. It may be too early to say anything to WW about the event, if it were me then keep things cordial for a long time and avoid any image that says "crazy knowledge of you".

Gently Jim, that is in your nature to be kind and gentle especially with your children. Fill your own life with GAL and pleasure. Small treasures, moments when the sun breaks through, incidentals of all kinds. Keep it simple and sweet.

I am filled with a sense of hope when I think of Jim and his children, when I think of the healing power of laughter and love. Hugs and smiles are there for Jim to take and know. Not in another time but today in small tiny dollops of joy, imperceptible but cleansing to your soul and raising the spirit. For the longest time I have read your posts and wondered if there is much light hidden in your days, now I see the smallest glimmers of light, dawns awakening. You deserve so much more Jim so I ask you to give yourself the gift of time.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 05/16/15 07:27 AM.

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Jim,

My 2 cents...I would not say anything to W about the event, but that is the way I am. I don't know if that helps you, but that is simply my opinion. smile

Continuing to send all the positive thoughts and sunny days your way. Keep on keeping on, Jim! smile


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Hi Jim,

By my own experience, sometimes silence speaks more then words. Now, action can make someone think about it. If there is a chance you can make some kind of donation, then it would be the gesture that will speak and let her know you care. Not the words that she can try to understand and get the wrong impression.

I did use some excuses to try to make the nice contact happen and it was zero results, it faded as it was said.

Hope that her resentment gets less and less every day. I just think that your WW is still holding a grudge and may not be ready to understand things in a positive way. Jim, the hard part of this journey is to have patience. It's very difficult and even more difficult when you see a little light shinning your way.

keep strong and steady, you are in this war to win it all, not just a battle here and there.

Wishing you all the best.
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Hi Jim - just checking in to see how you're doing? Hope all is well with you at the moment. Do you have the kids for the long weekend? Hope you have nice plans if so...

Take care Jim xx


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Hi Jim How's life at the moment ? Hope all good


Take care. Rd

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Originally Posted By: jim0987

Quick question for which I'd like your view. my XW is doing a big charity thing at the weekend. She doesn't know I know about it. Do I wish her luck, which is normal but means she will question how I know (her justgiving page emailed my step mum) or just carry on as if I don't know? I feel the latter is best but thought I'd take some expert advice.


Jim, I missed the window to weigh in on this. What did you end up doing? And how was your weekend otherwise?



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Hi Jim,

We have been a little down on our sitchs these last days, missing your good vibes. How did the weekend worked for you? I am curious to know what you end up doing.

Hope things are all right you just very busy w/GAL and kids.

Take care,
Pink


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Hi Jim, just dropping by to say Hello. Hope all is well with you; you've been quiet lately. I'm hoping that is because you are enjoying life, and busy with stimulating work and social plans.

Looking forward to hearing from you my friend smile


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Yes, jim0987, quickly open a new thread so that we can have a place to say that we miss you!

I've also been much quieter on these boards recently. Didn't quite have the time to explain why, but I'd be curious to see if it parallels your experience.


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Sending you positive thoughts, Jim. And a tail wag from Molly girl! smile


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Hi Jim. How's life ?

take care. Rd

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Hope the Mk8 is handling well, Jim. Hope to see a new thread soon...


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