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Vanilla #2551359 03/26/15 06:15 PM
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Okay V my friend, I am ready for the next step on our journey of working on ME! smile


Me:44
EXW 44
Wonderful Children
M11, T14
BD 6/14
OM Confirmed
Divorce Final 2/25/16
"It works if you work it!"

Joe46 #2551380 03/26/15 07:04 PM
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oK Joe, i will chat away as much as I can.

The next bit is a little tougher because I would like you to go back to your list of 'bad behaviours' and ask we're any of these emotionally abuse to W from your stand point.?

And could W have thought they were and why would that be?


I need you to park whether you thought W was reacting or not or excusing. let us chat a little about this very cool. Somethings can be done in better ways, that's ok, you can address and change that. But are there things that you can feel guilty about doing that W might see as abusive.

I am going to ponder the resentment issue, as that implies a boundary infringement.

Joe, you are obviously enjoying the board and posting, how far are you into IC?


V

Last edited by Vanilla; 03/26/15 07:10 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2551384 03/26/15 07:16 PM
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Thank You V. I will look at my list and get back to you. I will think hard about this and be totally honest. It is good to hear from you again.

I am trying to post some so that I can better understand some of these things. It also helps me to vent and not bottle things up. Are you referring to getting actual counseling? If you are, I have not found one yet. I am looking at trying to start early next month.


Me:44
EXW 44
Wonderful Children
M11, T14
BD 6/14
OM Confirmed
Divorce Final 2/25/16
"It works if you work it!"

Vanilla #2551465 03/26/15 10:26 PM
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Okay V, here it goes.

I think me complaining about her not getting things done can be seen as emotional abuse. I am sure W thought it was because I never told her that she did anything good or thanked her for the little things she did do.

I know me telling her she can just leave when we got into bad arguments is emotional abuse. I know wife took it to be emotional abuse also. I am sure it hurt her and did not make her feel wanted or loved when this came out of my mouth.

I think me blaming her for our problems or problems with the kids is emotional abuse. I think my wife felt like it was emotional abuse also. I am sure it hurt her and made her not feel very good about herself.

I think me being selfish is emotional abuse. It does not make her feel loved and appreciated if I can't share things with her. It kind of belittles her in a way.

I also think the dirty looks I gave her are emotional abuse. I know it bothered her. She said I looked mean when I got angry or over reacted.

I think years of going through this type of behavior from me is emotional abuse. I am sure it damaged her self esteem and caused her years of hurt feelings. frown


Me:44
EXW 44
Wonderful Children
M11, T14
BD 6/14
OM Confirmed
Divorce Final 2/25/16
"It works if you work it!"

Joe46 #2551538 03/27/15 02:58 AM
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Joe, your reflections are all good and I don't disagree these are not behaviors you have to be proud of or duplicate in your next R. But I disagree that this is all emotional abuse.

I am tired of that phrase. I don't know many men that claim to be emotionally abused. I don't say I've been emotionally abused, and I've been put through my share of pain.

I think the word "abuse" is very strong. There was a day when it was physical abuse. Yes, that's a black and white line, and a major one to cross. Somewhere along the way "emotional" abuse became a new age idea.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, nor am I naive enough to think that it's ONLY name calling or screaming. But by the standards above most of the relationships I know have some form of abuse in them.

I guess I just object to the strength of the word. I consider it a serious accusation against a man, like the word "rape". I am not a rapist, and would hate being called an "emotional rapist" as if they were on the same lines.

I have regrets about my behavior. I DID do things that were hurtful, negligent, passive aggressive, or controlling many times. I will honestly try my best to be a better person. But I don't consider myself abusive to the level of someone that endangered their spouses physical or mental well being.

Like you I admitted my flaws in my threads, and even MAGNIFIED them thinking the more honest I could be the better my chances of saving my M. What I've learned is that crucifying myself is just as unhealthy as denying my faults altogether.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2551560 03/27/15 08:36 AM
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I agree with Zeus. Whilst some of the behaviour isn't great (and great you're reflecting on that) it doesn't sound like emotional abuse either. Not that I know much about this area.

I can see if all of the above was daily and relentless, it would be pretty miserable to live with, and starts to look more like abuse.

To me abuse is when you are constantly undermining someone's wellbeing and confidence and so on. Or behaving from time to time in more severe ways. And doing that to gain some power or sense of wellbeing yourself.

Maybe read some more around this subject before you accept that you have been abusive.

Also, I think this is a continuum where at one end we have loving, supportive.......and at the other we have constantly humiliated, threatened and denigrated. Where on that dontinuum were you do you think?


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2551630 03/27/15 02:42 PM
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Thank you both for your comments. I asked W a few months ago if she would please help me by expressing to me some of the things I have done that hurt her so I may work on these things. She would not do it. A few days later we had a talk and when she got mad( I remained calm) she shared a few of these things. The emotional abuse comment came from her when she was freaking out after I started my own cell phone plan and got off hers. I may have become defensive when this subject was brought up to me on this board, because I thought emotional abuse was more like what toots said. The things that I have acknowledged as my faults here did not occur daily or even weekly. These happened once in awhile.

On the other hand, my wife could see some of this as emotional abuse to HER. In which case I feel like I should acknowledge this so I don't create that feeling in her. Or anyone else for that matter. My W has had self esteem issues through most of our time together. I should have acknowledged that better and been more sensitive to that. One of my faults is never looking at things from someone else's point of view. For instance, wedding rings. I never wore one after our wedding day. Mostly because of my job. But on the days I was not working, I did not wear one because I did not like jewelry. But what if my W went to town without wearing her's? I really can't say anything. But now I started looking at it from her point of view. Maybe it makes her feel good that I wear it. She knows that I am showing people I am married. Before I only thought about my feelings about it.


Me:44
EXW 44
Wonderful Children
M11, T14
BD 6/14
OM Confirmed
Divorce Final 2/25/16
"It works if you work it!"

Joe46 #2551682 03/27/15 05:05 PM
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I need a little advice! Or maybe just opinions! As you can see from my thread, I am working on myself and trying to handle things different with W. Last night after I told W my plans for the weekend, she came downstairs and gave me a check. And said she would give me one every week to get this bill paid off. I have been paying on a collection that was from one of her old business deals selling things. The reason I am paying it is because I gave her a couple checks a long time ago to buy these things to sell, but account got messed up from her customers bouncing checks. So the collection is under my name. I just want to make sure it gets cleared up, so I am paying it. I don't need her money to do it.

So my problem is, I don't want her money because I know where it comes from. To me, taking the money is like saying, "I am fine with taking money from your job, but not okay with you doing it". Kinda hypocritical. But if I don't take her money, I am not showing her I appreciate her trying to help pay the debt. Any advice is appreciated. I wanted to see what other thought.


Me:44
EXW 44
Wonderful Children
M11, T14
BD 6/14
OM Confirmed
Divorce Final 2/25/16
"It works if you work it!"

Joe46 #2551704 03/27/15 05:57 PM
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I would take the money,
and pay off the bill faster or use it on some other debt.

If it gets to lawyers that stuff will all get split up anyways.


Me-70, D37,S36
Cadet #2551758 03/27/15 08:34 PM
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Joe

You have your answers Zues and Toots have both said what I wanted to say.

One small comment though, WW may see some of this as abuse such but I suggest to you that it is behaviour that need not be repeated, you acknowledge that and make the changes. Forgive yourself.

It requires change of course, and now you have three separateb views. I await Cat and her forthright views to balance us.

It takes courage to face this, Joe know that you have.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 03/27/15 08:37 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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