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#2543828 03/02/15 07:45 PM
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Hello Everyone,

This is my first post, but I've lurked around here since BD on 2/6. This board has helped me immensely. I haven't told anyone besides my therapist about wife's affair, and it is very hard to keep that bottled up. This community has helped me feel supported and not alone through the hardest period of my life. Sincere thank you for all you do out there.

My sitch: Five years together, two kids 4 and 1. I'm now 30, wife is 25. We have all the ingredients of a happy marriage - beautiful children, nice home together, we are each other's best friend. But now I realize, we let the marriage get stale and should've been in MC years ago to work on it.

Fast forward to middle of last year. Marriage had been fledgling for a while. Lots of arguments, stressed. Then the intimacy stopped. Then one day my wife said she wanted a divorce. She started therapy and I turned into mush trying to win her back. This went on for a few months.

Then Bomb Day. She was having an EA which turned into a PA and was no longer in love with me. Said she never was. No remorse, said she didn't feel bad, I was the reason for her infidelity, etc etc. I get even mushier. Begging, pleading, forgiving. Pushing her further away.

That was 1 month ago. Two weeks ago I found this site. I detached and tried to GAL. This to me is one of the hardest things about DB. I obsess about losing my wife, my family unit, her affair all day everyday, but have to be upbeat and head high at the same time. Not easy, my head remains in a bad place. Really down, but doing my best. I did OK at it for a couple weeks. One thing I messed up on though, was the snooping. I scoured phone records, tried to hack email, looked up web history.

Things seemed to get a little better in terms of my wife's state of mind. She talked about wanting to work on things at one point (not truly committed though). We were on friendly talking terms, even laughing and joking at times. It's been hard to fully detach because we are co-parenting two young children. But things were OK. Not good or bad, but it just seemed neutral.

Then this morning I snooped again on the phone bill. And she has continued talking to her affair partner every morning for about 30 min to an hour on her way to work. I snooped more, she posted a yahoo question (where you seek anonymous online advice) about not being able to get over her affair and not being attracted to me:

(I can,t get over the man I had an affair with...? Please do not judge me…
I started having a long distance affair approx. 8 months ago. I have since come clean to my husband and started going to therapy. My husband seems like he would like to work on things, but I am not too sure. My therapist said that if I want to work on things with my husband I NEED to stop communicating with this other guy. I have honestly tried and I just can’t give him up… My husband and I have two young children, a beautiful house in my dream neighborhood, so many friend and family ties. I can tell if I am scared to lose all of that or if I don’t want to lose my husband. He is a really good man, we sometimes have fun together, but I am not sexually attracted to him. Don’t get me wrong, he is a good looking guy, I just don’t feel that spark…
).

It seemed so flippant, which has really bothered me throughout this ordeal. She doesn't seem to care about giving everything up over puppy love? She doesn't seem to care about how much I'm hurting, and how much this may hurt our young children.

Seeing all this overwhelmed me. I thought I was making progress and it turns out she has just been drawn to OM more and more. Don't hold back, I see now how impatient I am for only doing 2 weeks of DBing. One of the things I've been awakened to (and one of my contributions to the breakdown of our marriage) is my need to be in control.

And now I've fallen victim to this shortcoming again. I called a divorce mediator to setup a consultation. I told my wife and asked what her schedule was. She was surprised, but really seemed unfazed for the most part.

If I'm honest I know part of me wanted to get a rise out of my wife and maybe snap her out of the spell this other man has her under. But I'm hurting so much and I'm in an open marriage, and I can't keep allowing her to walk on me while carrying on her affair. I really did come to the conclusion that I needed to do this to establish an important boundary. I will not be in an open marriage. There would be no way for us to fix this if she continued talking to the OM for an hour each day and probably dozens more texts/emails.

Have I gone too far? Did I just seal my fate to soon be divorced and split up my family? What in the world should I do now?

I know at a minimum I misplayed my position. Easily could be much worse. Please don't hold back, I need as much honesty and support as I can get right now.

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Sandi's Rules: A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2380415&page=1

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063&fpart=1

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Originally Posted By: Bing
But I'm hurting so much and I'm in an open marriage, and I can't keep allowing her to walk on me while carrying on her affair. I really did come to the conclusion that I needed to do this to establish an important boundary. I will not be in an open marriage. There would be no way for us to fix this if she continued talking to the OM for an hour each day and probably dozens more texts/emails.

Have I gone too far? Did I just seal my fate to soon be divorced and split up my family? What in the world should I do now?


Well that depends if the first part of the above really WAS a core boundary of personal integrity with you, or if it wasn't (and was just a tactic to get her back). Because if you really ARE serious about not being able to live in an open marriage, then you really had nothing to lose by laying out the boundary -- it was something you couldn't have abided anyway.

Your wife is addicted, and affairs ARE highly addicting. Unless and until she cuts off all contact with this other man, she's going to remain blocked to you emotionally (and therefore, sexually).

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Hi Bing, I'm so sorry you find yourself here....but it's the best place to be at a time like this.

Swabby posted some really helpful advice below (Swabby, I hope you don't mind?) It applied to an EA, but could equally apply to a PA. Hope it is helpful.

Keep posting. You'll be on moderation initially, but if you post short updates or queries, you'll soon be off moderation. Don't worry too much about what you have done so far...but it sounds as though you need to think some more about boundaries. That doesn't need to be as drastic as pursuing D - different things work for different people - not sleeping together in the marital bed, separation and so on...Anyway, here's Swabby's post...

Yeah, as the saying goes when dealing with an EA....

Believe none of what she says, and less then half of what she does.

These are the most salient tips i have (copied) that are helping me through my wife EA as we speak.

______________

First Things First – Take a Deep Breath

There is a huge amount of emotional turbulence that comes with any kind of infidelity. I'm willing to Bet that you've spent hours and hours worrying about your wife, your marriage and what you could have done to prevent her emotional affair.

You're frustrated, you're tired, and you don't know where to turn.

So, stop for a moment…

Get your head out of the muck…

Take a deep breath.

You're still alive. You're not divorced. But you are unhappy.

It's time to talk about you. Because after all, YOU are the only one that you can control.

You do want control of your life again, right? I'm willing to bet you haven't felt that in a while.

You Need a Plan to Survive an Emotional Affair

Moving forward without a plan is foolish. You cannot go into the future blind. Surviving an emotional affair is not something you do by the seat of your pants. You need to develop a plan of action for yourself (not for your wife), and then follow through with it.

What follows is a 6 step plan to survive your wife's emotional affair without going insane with desperation, guilt, anger and depression.

Step 1. Understanding Why She Continues to Want Him

The first step is understanding why your wife cheated. And no, contrary to what she's telling you, it is NOT your fault.

Your wife's emotional affair is now an addiction.

It's not something to be pitied, for she chose to allow herself to fall into it. Nor is it something to be pardoned, for she could at any point choose to bring the problems into the limelight of marriage instead of dealing under the table like a sleaze.

But none of that changes the fact that right now your wife is literally addicted to another man. And like any addiction, an emotional affair will be difficult for her to break free from. And also just like an addiction, the best approach is cold turkey.

Psychologists call this state of romantic addiction "Limerance", and I've written more about it in my article, What Is an Emotional Affair.

The point is, your wife began a relationship with another man because he paid attention to her. However, the reason that she can't stop is because she is unable to let go of how he makes her feel.

Again, I cannot stress enough that this is no excuse, however, it will help you understand what your wife is going through.

Step 2. Don't Be the Victim

This step to survive an emotional affair is perhaps the most important.

Now that you understand why your wife continues to be involved with another man, or why she was involved with him for so long, it's time to let go of the self-pity and self-blame.

You are NOT the reason that your wife cheated!

Even if you weren't being the best husband before her emotional affair, the vows of marriage dictate that all problems be dealt with via the spouse, not via an attractive friend. For her to confide in someone other than you is blatantly unfaithful. Furthermore, it drives a wedge into your relationship. Bf course she will find it easier to talk to a man whose only concern is getting in her pants than a husband who wants to delve into the fire of marriage problems.

In short, it was her decision to flee from the problems in your marriage. It was her irresponsibility, her betrayal, and her unfaithfulness that led to her emotional affair, no matter how accidentally or innocently it began.

No doubt she will tell you that you were cold, or that she felt like she couldn't talk to you, or that she thought the marriage was going downhill anyways, but do not let yourself believe these lies. This is called blame-shifting.

Just like any other addict, your wife will refuse to acknowledge her part in the emotional affair, if she acknowledges the emotional affair at all. The worst thing you can do is play into her denial by allowing yourself to believe that her emotional infidelity is in any way your fault.

And plus, even though it doesn't seem like it now, in the long run your wife will actually be the one who ends up with the most pain because of her emotional infidelity, especially if it costs her the marriage.

Step 3. Stop Being Her 'Safety Net'

An addict won't do anything about their addiction until it hurts more to continue than it does to stop.

That's just the way it is.

By now you're probably feeling a little bit angry. You're probably starting to realize that not only has your wife lied to you about the emotional affair, but she has somehow displaced onto you the blame that should be on her. Not only has she devastated your trust, but she has devastated your confidence.

It's time to put your foot down.

The reason that your wife continues her emotional affair is because you are giving her a safety net. She knows that if she ever falls out of favor with this other man, she always has you to turn back to. She is living without consequences, and she knows it.

This simultaneously pushes her to desire the other man more and takes away her incentive to come back to you.

Stop being her safety net. Let her know that you will not stand to be treated this way (which you won't), and that if she continues her emotional affair then you will leave (which you will). And you have to mean it, too.

I am telling you this man-to-man:

You deserve better than an unfaithful wife.

That's not to say you should abandon your marriage, but until you value yourself enough to draw the line, there is no hope of surviving her emotional affair. In the end, your wife was the one who broke your trust; it's not your responsibility to fix it.

At some point, she will have to prove to you that she is sorry for her sins and that she wants to save your marriage. The longer you remain as her safety net, the longer it will take for that to happen, and the deeper into her affair you allow her to get without any consequences.

This is something I've talked about a lot on Husband Help Haven – The best way to get your wife back is actually to let her go (and stand on your own 2 feet without her). This also applies when learning how to survive an emotional affair.

Step 4. Abandon Fear

Right now that anger you were feeling a little while ago is starting to get mixed up with fear.

You're afraid of being alone, you're afraid of being unhappy, you're afraid of losing your wife and you're afraid of divorce.

But guess what? As of right now…

You ARE alone.

You are NOT happy.

Your wife is already GONE.

And your wife WANTS divorce, because she would rather be with him than with you.

The worst has already happened...There is nothing left to be afraid of.

That's not to say that these things can't change in the future, but relying on the future for your happiness now is foolish and self-defeating.

Remember, you are the only one that you can control. So start taking control now.

Step 5. Recognize What Needs to Happen

One of the other articles in Emotional Affairs 101 is called How to End an Emotional Affair. In it, you will find a series of steps that your wife MUST complete if your marriage is to recover. I highly recommend you read through that article so that you can gain a clear recognition of what needs to happen on your wife's part for your marriage to turn around.

Just waiting around for her to come back to you and then assuming your marriage will recover is not the answer. No matter how much pain you feel right now, the dark depths of your shattered trust for your wife has only begun to show itself.

As I said before, your wife will be the one primarily responsible for fixing this. But even though it's her responsibility to take action and fix it, you can still lead her in how to do so.

Step 6. Your Marriage Can Be Better for It

The last step is a step towards hope.

Even though your marriage may be closer to divorce than it's ever been before, rest assured that if your wife is able to turn a new leaf, and if you are able to forgive her emotional affair, then your future marriage can be better than you've ever experienced.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Either your wife will not repent and you will find happiness on your own, or she will repent and your marriage will be reignited with a primal attraction that's never been present before. Obviously, you probably prefer the latter, but recognize that YOU will be happy either way.

Final Warning: Your Wife Needs to Commit

Before I let you go, I have one final warning for you.

It's normal for your wife to be slow to take the blame for the emotional affair. Just keep moving forward and focus on your end goal.


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Good advice all around. Thanks Cadet, Starsky and Toots.

Regarding tactic vs. boundary, Starsky, that's a really good question. I've reflected on that quite a bit. Honestly I think it's both. Yes, I wish there was a magic cure for this and a part of me hoped taking the next step would turn things around. But I also refuse to be a willing partner in an open marriage. That is a very real boundary for me.

So you're right, there was nothing to lose, given my personal integrity. I cannot allow my boundaries to be steamrolled. That's now a part of my GAL and detachment. I still have no desire to divorce and I want to keep my family together more than anything. But simply waiting for that to happen seemed counter to GAL and detachment.

So mediation consultation is scheduled for next Thursday. I prepared myself all afternoon for what to say when my wife questioned this sudden decision. Something about family/marriage being important but impossible without boundaries. Instead she hasn't said anything about it. A little small talk, nothing unpleasant, but to my great surprise, not one peep about my decision. I can tell something is on her mind, but she will not share it with me.

I'll continue to update. And please post if you have anything to add or any advice on how to handle the situation from here. It's nice to be heard and helped smile


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Hi Bing. First, let me tell you that your M has a chance of surviving this terrible ordeal. A lot will depend on the kind of mental attitude you have. You like to be in control? Learn to control yourself, and you won't have much time to control anything else.

So, before you turned into mush, what kind of man were you?

Quote:
Things seemed to get a little better in terms of my wife's state of mind. She talked about wanting to work on things at one point (not truly committed though). We were on friendly talking terms, even laughing and joking at times.


This is what usually confuses the H, and he wants to see it as making a little progress.......only nothing seems to be moving. That's b/c she puts this sticy-tacky on the H (more commonly known as BS) to keep him stuck while she continues doing what wayward W's do.

There are a lot of hard, cold facts about WW's that you need to learn, but it will take more than one post. Perhaps you can start with these:

* Telling her you've made an appointment with a DB coach will not snap her out of this.
*. She is not logical, and you can't deal with her as if she were.
*. She is untrustworthy, and when you forget that fact, you will pay the price.
*. She will not desire you and will not work on the M as long as she has OM in her head.
*. She cannot love you until she can respect you.
*. She will not desire you until she is attracted to you.
*. She is confused about what she feels. It's not love, it is addiction to the thrill of the A.
*. You cannot control her.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thank you for this post Sandi, it helped me.


M: 8 years, together 9
M: 41 W: 32
D 4, S 6
ILYBINILWY 2/10/15
2/14/15-2/22/15 Left home
4/5/15 Suspect A, Initiated Sandi's advice from WW thread
4/19/15 W asked for D
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Sandi2, it's uncanny how spot on your comments are and how much that hits home - thank you.

I cannot control my wife or the outcome of this situation. I can only control myself. And at this point - as a shell of the confident, outgoing, energetic, successful man I used to be - it's best I concentrate on only my kids and my own well being indefinitely.

I can't force my wife to suddenly give up her addiction or become deeply attracted to me again. But I damn sure can't allow her to disrespect me and our family well I grovel at her feet and "play nice" and feed her CAKE. Old me, the best version of me, would stand up to that nonsense in a heartbeat. And so that is the path I am taking.

My plan is to rediscover my full potential and take control of MY life like the man I ought to be. Whatever the outcome, if I am true to this mission my kids and myself will be much better for it. I will not be a doormat while my wife chases her fantasyland desires with OM. There is a hard reality to her decisions and I will not force that on her, but I will not pander to any non-reality she may be suspended in.

Thanks all - do comment if you think of anything. I'll continue to update my progress as well.

Bing


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
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Testing me today (I think).

Sent a few mundane (unnecessary) emails, a text and a voicemail today. I only responded, politely but succinctly, to matters that had to do with watching the kids tonight for her IC appointment.

Now ever since I got home and tried to do my own thing and detach, she has come into the room I am and initiated minutiae small talk. Again I only respond politely and succinctly, no advice on what to make for dinner, etc, just actively listening.

Then she gets frustrated, saying I've been quiet lately. She goes, "can you tell me what's going on? I want to have a good relationship with you Bing." Relationship clearly meaning friends (our first D mediation which I scheduled is on for Thursday).

I just smiled and said "I'm fine." And she rolled her eyes and left the room... Ok.


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
Living together - in limbo
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I don't understand why she wants to be friends. She knows I am a good father and that will never change - she is saying it as if under the veil of "sake of the kids" but I call BS.

Is it because she is feeling guilty and wants me to somehow excuse her actions? Some sort of weird catharsis after cheating?

I don't get it.


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
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Yes, she wants to keep you as her 'friend' and financial supporter etc - whilst continuing her A. that's typical WAS, and something my H tried to do. I told him I wasn't willing to be his friend. I'm his W....and I went dark for awhile after that.

If you are a good friend during an A, it can come across as condoning the A. Also, it doesn't build respect from your W for you...


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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I'm reeling a bit today.

Called wife at work and initiated a conversation about setting boundaries around our marriage. I said I will not be in an open marriage because it makes me feel disrespected and betrayed. I said if she chooses to continue having her affair, I will be pursuing a divorce.

I asked if she would continue her affair or consider working to repair our relationship. She said she was sorry for hurting me but we never had a foundation to our marriage to begin with. There is nothing to rebuild. This is something her therapist has suggested to her as well!

I then sought to enforce my boundaries. I said I wanted to separate finances immediately and set up a rotating parenting plan. This then led down the path of her asking if someone should move out and I told her my preference would be for her to move out.

I'm feeling this has sealed the deal but I didn't think I had a choice. Her affair is as strong as ever and she is communicating with OM everyday.

Please help me understand what I should do now. And where I screwed up big time so others may learn from my mistakes and I might be in a healthier relationship with someone else.


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
Living together - in limbo
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Bing, if you set the boundary then you need to make sure to stick to it. I think she will probably test you, but you need to stick to it and remain strong with your decision.

I have seen other situations where people went back on their boundaries and their spouse then used it to walk all over them.

I would think the next step is to follow through with enforcing the boundary you set.


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
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My wife did the same thing. I set boundaries, she did everything she could to walk right past them, then would blow up at me and try to turn me into the bad guy.


Me: 38
W: 32
S10 D6
T: 10 (02/2004)
M: 7 (12/2007)
Separation 02/2015
OM confirmed 01/2015,
D mentioned 12/2014
D finalized 9/2016
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Have you read DB or DR yet?


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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No - but I need to. I will commit to buying DR today. Would you agree that would be the better piece to start with given my situation?


Me: 30 W: 25
D4, D1
Undiscovered EA/PA since 6/2014
BD: 2/6/15
Living together - in limbo
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Yes, they will help and it will help you to understand the concepts that we describe here. So get them right away.

You pretty much "detailed" your five year marriage in 1 small paragraph with the rest talking about your W's A. Can you tell us more about the dynamics in your M? Be honest and explain the issues in detail.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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I just left Barnes & Noble with DR in hand. Read the intro and chapter 1 in the store and plan to read the rest and get up to speed quickly.

You're right, I am spending so much energy obsessing over the affair that I completely glossed over the details of my M. I need to do my best to pull myself through the rest of the workday but I will provide a full, honest account of our M later tonight.

Thank you


Me: 30 W: 25
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Ooof need to be more action less talk. Tried talking to wife tonight (aka pleading begging blaming emotional yuk). Was met with frustration and a good firm "I don't want to be with you anymore!" Jeez I need to get a hold of myself. I'm going to read DR tonight and do my best to shut my mouth. It's doing me no favors.


Me: 30 W: 25
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Full background:

2009 met at work, two young professionals (25 and 20). I still remember the first moment I saw her. Stunningly beautiful. Flirted, eventually dated and were very very quickly living together within the first year.

2010 still moving lightning fast, she's driving. First daughter is born. She was pregnant within the first six months of us dating. She's had the upper hand in this sense throughout our relationship. It's usually gone at her pace and her pace has been warp speed. She is my first adult relationship, even throughout college I never had a serious relationship. If I'm honest I do think I'm a pushover (one of the things she said led to A in the immediate aftermath of BD). Rambling here but I think there' are some common threads.

2011 we are married. Again I was ready to wait, she didn't want to wait at all, I acquiesced. Make no mistake, I love my wife and want to spend my life with her. My reason for wanting to wait was largely financial. But I just want to tell the truth about our M and this is it - for better or worse.

2012 several jobs later we both find ourselves back where it started in the same office building (same floor) together . We car pool, eat lunch together everyday, marriage is going well. Both of us and baby are happy. HOWEVER, soon I start to get a little comfortable, get a little lazy in the M, gain some weight, stop charming and wooing my wife. We stopped dating as much, i start trying to get out more and hang with the guys. She's nagging some, arguing picks up.

2013 - buy a house, wife is pregnant with youngest daughter. I could've waited a little, but W wanted a playmate for oldest daughter, and by extension, kids NEED a house. Again moving fast and she's in a hurry. Still house is great, kids are perfect angels, but dating ends pretty much all together and I'm as lazy as ever (besides in my parenting). We've become roommates with kids.

2014 - fighting a lot. Lots of stress. Wife starts dropping me hints (I see now) but I was too dense and prideful to acknowledge. I get a new job in April that requires more hours and sacrifice then any other job I've held. I'm working long hours and complaining a lot about work when I am finally at home, expecting my wife to empathize and baby me. She starts to pull away, still no dating, intimacy really sporadic except ML when I force the issue. Unbeknownst to me, W meets someone online in June. Two months later W lies to me about visiting an aunt in Florida over the weekend but really spends the weekend with OM in Colorado. She even sent me a fake photo of a Florida beach while away. That one hurts. She gets back and says she wants a divorce. I start begging, pleading etc (not ever even considering an A). The next few months she is really really into her smart phone and secretive. Meanwhile I try to win her love with gifts and affection. It's not working. Couple months after that she starts IC.

2015 - EA/PA is revealed on 2/6. She doesn't give me any details on OM. I hack her email and find out about the Florida/Colorado deception. But there's more... After the Colorado trip she posted a Craigslist ad looking for a local male workout partner. Many men respond and there are at least 6-10 overtly flirty email chains with different men in the area. Shes sending pictures of herself (non sexual, but flirty if that makes sense ), requesting pictures from these men and telling a few they are hot and other such advances. One in particular leads to more than email flirtation and they apparently met for lunch and made out afterward. He gets pretty attached and sends a long emotional email and she eventually cuts it off saying there is no fun without the chase. I also find something far more chilling...

I'll go back on the timeline a little. Around the same time EA/PA with Colorado guy started wife got what I thought was a hair brained idea to sell a pair of her panties on Craigslist. She said she read about it on a blog and she just had to write a steamy ad and send her underwear to a buyer for $50. Easy money. I was immediately strongly against this. I told her I was really scared about the potential risk to her safety and the safety of our kids. Not to mention this struck me as highly disrespectful to the marriage. She said she already had a buyer and promised she would never do it again. I let it go. Well.... the email hack revealed not only had her buyer gotten the panties, he also received sexual photos of my wife, a picture of her face (!), and a short video of her masturbating and saying his name (!!!). The guy sent pictures of himself as well - fat bald and ugly. Damn was this a weird find.

And the big email discovery was about a month ago which brings us to the timeline I laid out at the beginning of my thread. Colorado OM is the OM still in the picture. She has told my outright she will not stop talking to him. She is resolute in her conviction about this.

Couple other things I think might add some context. Both of W's parents are on anti-depressants. MIL in particular strikes me as manic. My W has also been prescribed an anti depressant but she never commits to taking it regularly. Also W is gorgeous but has body image issues. She wants plastic surgery, hates certain physical features about herself, etc.

So that's our sordid story. I really want to be open an honest about everything so this board can offer real advice.

Thanks everyone


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
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Text from W after my boundary setting and backslide last night:

"Sorry for getting mad last night when you were trying to talk to me. I just feel like you are giving me very mixed signals. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings further than I already have."

I have not responded. I've found it's best I shut my trap as much as possible for now.


Me: 30 W: 25
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Okay, well you need to know more before you just dive in, b/c you will mess it up. You get the idea of giving her a boundary.......and screwed it up b/c you would not wait until you learned more about it.

When you state a boundary to a wayward wife, you look her eyeball to eyeball when you say it. Not through email, text, or phone calls. You may not see it as being a weak approach, but it does not have the effectiveness like the face to face. Tone of voice (low pitch, steady and firm, but not threatening) and facial expression (strong and dead serious, no fear shown) and standing up while you say it (shows strong body language). It all works together when telling your W.

When you state your boundary, you don't turn around and ask her if she's going to keep doing what she's been doing. You don't ask her anything! You don't discuss anything else. You tell her what your boundary is, and turn and leave her with it. It is up to her to either respect it or pay it no attention. In most cases, the WW will test it. So you better be ready to back it up. What will be your action as a response to your boundary being crossed? What will you do if she makes no effort to end the A?

Talk is the cheapest thing she can get. You carry no weight in your attempts to "talk" and try to convince her of anything. Believe me, when I tell you it does not work on a WW.

The only thing she will pay heed to is your action.....or lack of action. Understand? You do not "warn" her or even "tell" what you plan to do. As you have seen, it only promotes further talk about the R.

I honestly feel you are "trying out" some tactics to get a desired reaction from her. I think you are hoping it will snap her out of this. It won't. Be carefu what you say. Say what you mean.....and mean what you say.

There are no tricks in DBing, just hard work.


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Quote:
"Sorry for getting mad last night when you were trying to talk to me. I just feel like you are giving me very mixed signals. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings further than I already have."


Mixed signals? This is coming from a wife who want to be friends with her H while she cheats on him!

She's concerned about hurting your feelings over last night? Pffff........
What about hurting your feelings while she's with OM?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandi. Your feeling is right. I am testing out tactics and she knows it. No action and no conviction. And I'm not even doing the tactics correctly.

Step 1: I read DR cover to cover and learn everything i can. I've done enough damage talking and testing already. I NEED to hold it together.

Today has been better. Finally a productive day at work - I'd been spending the past two weeks at about 50% productivity moping and stressing (sometimes not even going in).


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
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I found a good GAL technique. Tonight I went to a book store and read some DR. It helped me get out of the house, and as I've shown through my mistakes, it's very important I read the dang books already!

Work was good too as I mentioned earlier. I woke up this morning with a mantra of gratitude and serenity for being alive and afforded with all the opportunities i STILL have. No mopping today - I stayed strong most of the day too. Not all but most.

DR has been interesting so far. I am only 70 pages in, but lots of good information already to digest. I really liked the section about pushing the right vs. wrong buttons. There was a line in particular about any button that's different than the ones you've been pushing so far is the right button. And the cycle of action and reaction in relationships. It resonated with me. Especially in the wake of all the childish tactics I've been trying and my hopeless attempts at talking my wife out of it.

An OK day for me. An improvement for sure.


Me: 30 W: 25
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Just popping in to vent. WW gets mad I've been going out lately. This from the woman who went out shopping earlier and has been sitting on the couch for the past 5 hours watching Netflix and texting OM. I was on a 1 hour workout when these TMs came in:

"Next time you leave the house I need 24 hours advanced notice"

"I'm seriously sick of you leaving every night. It's so rude"

"Either move out. Or stay and help with the girls"

"You can't have it both ways"

The last one in particular really set me off for obvious reasons... Granted I was out pretty damn late last night GALing with friends. No reply from me and I do think setting up a schedule would be good for both of us.


Me: 30 W: 25
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Big day tomorrow meeting with a divorce mediator for a free consultation. I initiated this in a misguided attempt at boundary setting - WW continues affair and I will not be in an open marriage.

I'm not sure how to conduct myself at this meeting. I think from the advice I've gathered it's best I be authentic and genuine, but not controlling or mean. I also must be ready to lose my WW as I have no control over HER and can only worry about myself.

Hopefully I didn't set a trap for myself when I acted on emotion and set up the meeting.

Sound right to you guys?


Me: 30 W: 25
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Please help me process the latest situation.

Attended divorce mediation consultation with WW today.

My plan was to allow my WW to lead the consultation when possible. Thought this would help her feel validated and me gain some insight on where her heads at. In hindsight this probably came across as passive/lack of confidence, which is an area I need to 180.

It was cordial although hard for me given how businesslike my WW was about it all. She is definitely ready for the big D.

Afterward we parted ways without saying much. Then I get back to the office and she emails me:

"I really feel like we need to talk. Can you please call me as soon as possible. Thank you."

Then she called me. An hour after telling this mediator WE want 50% custody, she now thinks it's better if they spend more time with her. She picked up on one comment that the mediator made about 50% custody being sometimes more difficult for younger children in particular on our one year old.

I stood my ground on this and did not acquiesce because for the past month since BD we have only talked about being an agreement on 50% custody. It was like she expected me to give up my right to half the time with the children on a phone call after she blindsided me with her change of heart.

Then she started to bring up other things saying I leave the house every night and she's the one taking care of the kids now anyway. She said she was keeping track of when I left the house. This is a major exaggeration on her part. Although I am trying to get out more and GAL I have actually made it a point to get home earlier from work and certainly haven't abandoned anyone.

Finally I suggested we end the call and continue talking about this later after we both had time to digest the meeting. She said "well I guess we're going to court then," hung up on me, and sent the following email afterward:

"Have fun paying child support."

Someone please help me make sense of this and have a plan for what to do now. This is not the woman I married and she is wildly unpredictable day to day.


Me: 30 W: 25
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She kept saying you're being selfish and not thinking about what's best for the kids. I said I didn't chose to be in this situation and by getting a divorce were already choosing an option that's not best for the kids. She took offense and said I was blaming her and I can't deny that because I was. She put me on the defensive and I didn't handle it well.


Me: 30 W: 25
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I feel completely powerless. I want to tell her I am committed the the M. I want her to want the same. But then I remember she knows I want to work on it and has no interest in staying in the M at the moment.


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
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I asked my wife to move out of our house. I told her I was sick of her hurting me. I have dug myself a hole with reasoning and pleading and this is probably just more of the same emotional behavior from me.

Wife has carried on with OM and continues to do so every day. It is a long distance relationship so the EA remains as torrid as ever. They seem blissfully stuck in the honeymoon phase. She started talking about what we would do with the kids if she moved 4 hours away, saying she would have them most of the time and I would get 1 weekend a month and summers, and coincidentally 4 hours away is the distance to OM. And it pushed me over the edge... yet again.

She has only been in this man's physical presence one time when she lied to me and took a flight to spend a weekend with him. How can she be so emotionally involved with him? I have found evidence of highly sexual phone conversations, text messages and photos she is sending him. Things she never did with me. I am jealous of how adventurous she has become for this man. We have not ML for about two months.

My wife has nothing but sympathetic influences in her ear - OM, her parents, her friends, her therapist. I've only tried to do right by her and provide for her and our kids. But somehow I am made out to be the bad guy in all this and everyone she knows is validating it.

I see no path to reconciliation for us. She's told me verbatim many of the quotes from DR WW anecdotes. I never loved you. We got married for the wrong reasons. I'm not happy and I deserve more than mediocre happiness. I don't want to be with you.

Our history is completely rewritten and she is convinced we never shared a single happy moment together.

We are well on our way to changing the lives of our two baby girls, blowing up six years together, the life we built and the future we were building, all of our family and friend connections, all of it. Over a man she has known for less than a year and seen only once.

She is completely detached from me. I should take notes from her. NOBODY is better at detaching than a WW.

Maybe it's not too late for me to turn it around and become the man only a fool would leave. Maybe I can attract my wife to my picnic patiently over time. But I have struggled with this from the start. How do I realize my full potential when i walk around every day in a constant state of grief and depression? How do you just snap out of that and act cheerful and detached? I truthfully haven't been able to do this even once.

What kind of man was I before I met my wife? The man she was attracted to when we first met?

I don't remember. I have no idea who I am anymore.


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
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Open question for LBS out there: What have you found to be the best way to tell family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. about divorce or separation?

I haven't told a soul besides my therapist and this web site. It's a combination of shame and wishful thinking that everything would work out.

Do I tell anyone about the affair stuff? WW has said she's really nervous about the kids finding out someday and wants to keep it a secret from them. For me, I want support but I think I want privacy more. I don't want anyone to be overbearing while I work through it. I kinda want to be left alone.

What worked well for anyone else out there?


Me: 30 W: 25
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BD: 2/6/15
Living together - in limbo
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Bing,

Your WW sounds just like mine. The script is just amazing. It's like they all got together and said, "This is what we're going to do. We all must do the SAME thing to our husbands." It would be more fascinating if it wasn't happening to me.

Anyway, W and I are telling our kids tomorrow. We met with a therapist months ago to discuss the discussion. Basically, fill the kids full of B.S. is what the therapist told us. I didn't like the guy at all to be honest. The first thing he said after we told him about our sitch was that some people shouldn't be married.

He did have some good points to focus on. Focus on that it's not the children's fault. That mom and dad will always love them and protect them. Keeping it general and to not let the reasons be known. If your W is like mine, she blows everything under the rug and makes this all out to be no big deal. Hopefully, that will be a bit of advantage tomorrow.

The therapist also said that the kids will constantly ask questions out of the blue about specifics. Just keep answers general and positive. Even if you're about to have a nervous breakdown, you have to refocus and put on the happy face. I hate the thought of having to do that. Seems like lying.

I would be interest to hear how others here have discussed it with their kids.

I try not to talk to family too much. My W told me she told her mother last night and her mother was not happy. I was shocked she hadn't told her already. My parents pretty much spew in her direction, which I do not like at all.


M:42 W:43
T:14 M:10
S:9 D:5
W filed 12/22/14
EA 12/31/14
PA 4/10/15
D final 5/13/15
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So the kids grow up thinking that you wanted the D, also.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: Bing
Open question for LBS out there: What have you found to be the best way to tell family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. about divorce or separation?

I haven't told a soul besides my therapist and this web site. It's a combination of shame and wishful thinking that everything would work out.

Do I tell anyone about the affair stuff? WW has said she's really nervous about the kids finding out someday and wants to keep it a secret from them. For me, I want support but I think I want privacy more. I don't want anyone to be overbearing while I work through it. I kinda want to be left alone.

What worked well for anyone else out there?


Newbie Here
But personally I only told 1 person W and I were having problems for the first 6 months. After W moved out I told my parents. Now everyone is finding out because she is promoting the upcoming D. My thought was I always thought we would get through this and I did not want any to have ill feelings against her.


Me: 36
W: 36
D: 14
T: 18 (05/1997)
M: 16 (05/1999)
BD: 7/23/15
Separation 01/2015
D mentioned and started 02/2015
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Quote:
Do I tell anyone about the affair stuff?
Generally, no. I don't see that that helps anything. You can simply say you didn't want the divorce. People usually will stop at that.

Quote:
WW has said she's really nervous about the kids finding out someday and wants to keep it a secret from them.
Too bad, so sad. The kids will eventually find out. Your W's die is already cast. The tough part for you is what you want to look like when they do. You will either be on the right side or the wrong side of that. Your kids will judge each of you based on how they've seen you behave.

Now keep in mind that if you D, you will be co-parenting with your W for a good while, and you will have to get along to some degree, and it will be beneficial for your kids to have some respect for each of you, so you gain nothing by running down your W. And your kids don't have a choice between you either, they're stuck with both of you, so again, don't put them in a bad spot.

So if you remember that it's not your job to judge your W or throw her under the bus, it's a little easier. By the same token, it's certainly not your job to lie for her either. She has the responsibility for her relationship with the kids, not you.

Quote:
For me, I want support but I think I want privacy more. I don't want anyone to be overbearing while I work through it. I kinda want to be left alone.
Reveal only to the extent you need help. Everyone will have an opinion, and you will get lots of conflicting advice that is generally aimed at a short term fix from people who don't have to live with the consequences of their advice. In the end, it will be up to you to decide how and with whom you want to live, and what you need to do to be comfortable with your decisions.

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Originally Posted By: Bing
I asked my wife to move out of our house. I told her I was sick of her hurting me. I have dug myself a hole with reasoning and pleading and this is probably just more of the same emotional behavior from me.

Wife has carried on with OM and continues to do so every day. It is a long distance relationship so the EA remains as torrid as ever. They seem blissfully stuck in the honeymoon phase. She started talking about what we would do with the kids if she moved 4 hours away, saying she would have them most of the time and I would get 1 weekend a month and summers, and coincidentally 4 hours away is the distance to OM. And it pushed me over the edge... yet again.

She has only been in this man's physical presence one time when she lied to me and took a flight to spend a weekend with him. How can she be so emotionally involved with him? I have found evidence of highly sexual phone conversations, text messages and photos she is sending him. Things she never did with me. I am jealous of how adventurous she has become for this man. We have not ML for about two months.

My wife has nothing but sympathetic influences in her ear - OM, her parents, her friends, her therapist. I've only tried to do right by her and provide for her and our kids. But somehow I am made out to be the bad guy in all this and everyone she knows is validating it.

I see no path to reconciliation for us. She's told me verbatim many of the quotes from DR WW anecdotes. I never loved you. We got married for the wrong reasons. I'm not happy and I deserve more than mediocre happiness. I don't want to be with you.

Our history is completely rewritten and she is convinced we never shared a single happy moment together.

We are well on our way to changing the lives of our two baby girls, blowing up six years together, the life we built and the future we were building, all of our family and friend connections, all of it. Over a man she has known for less than a year and seen only once.

She is completely detached from me. I should take notes from her. NOBODY is better at detaching than a WW.

Maybe it's not too late for me to turn it around and become the man only a fool would leave. Maybe I can attract my wife to my picnic patiently over time. But I have struggled with this from the start. How do I realize my full potential when i walk around every day in a constant state of grief and depression? How do you just snap out of that and act cheerful and detached? I truthfully haven't been able to do this even once.

What kind of man was I before I met my wife? The man she was attracted to when we first met?

I don't remember. I have no idea who I am anymore.

How about you change your approach? In several statements you are determining your current GPS position, assessing the various roads ahead, and providing a probability analysis of success for each route.

STOP!

Assess your situation:
  • Who you are
  • Who you want to be
  • What you want
  • At what cost you are willing to get what you want
  • What your boundaries are

Get a tangible list in your hand (keep it in your wallet) and use it as a roadmap to remind you of the truth so that you don't fall into the trap of letting your emotions run the show.

Figure out what the RIGHT things to do are, and focus on doing them no matter what. Where you are, the road ahead, and probabilities based on emotional swings are not relevant or helpful in any fashion.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
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Zew, thank you for the insightful reply. Your words truly spoke to the uncertainty I have in my head and heart about dealing with divorce. Thank you

Quote:

How about you change your approach? In several statements you are determining your current GPS position, assessing the various roads ahead, and providing a probability analysis of success for each route.

STOP!

Assess your situation:
  • Who you are
  • Who you want to be
  • What you want
  • At what cost you are willing to get what you want
  • What your boundaries are

Get a tangible list in your hand (keep it in your wallet) and use it as a roadmap to remind you of the truth so that you don't fall into the trap of letting your emotions run the show.

Figure out what the RIGHT things to do are, and focus on doing them no matter what. Where you are, the road ahead, and probabilities based on emotional swings are not relevant or helpful in any fashion.

-PM


PM, thank you so much for the reply. Please help me understand more clearly. I am lost and I need to change my approach. I want to live honestly and do the right thing. Those words sound so refreshing in the midst of all I am going through if that makes sense.

When I create my list, is this in the context of my marriage, my career, my kids, spirituality, morals, or all of the above? What is the scope of this introspection? I want to do it, I really do. My actions have followed my emotions up and down for the past 6 weeks. I don't want to do that anymore.

So say in practical terms, if one of my boundaries is that I cannot participate in an open marriage, how would I do the right thing with respect to that boundary being steamrolled everyday?


Me: 30 W: 25
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Originally Posted By: Bing
PM, thank you so much for the reply. Please help me understand more clearly. I am lost and I need to change my approach. I want to live honestly and do the right thing. Those words sound so refreshing in the midst of all I am going through if that makes sense.

When I create my list, is this in the context of my marriage, my career, my kids, spirituality, morals, or all of the above? What is the scope of this introspection? I want to do it, I really do. My actions have followed my emotions up and down for the past 6 weeks. I don't want to do that anymore.

So say in practical terms, if one of my boundaries is that I cannot participate in an open marriage, how would I do the right thing with respect to that boundary being steamrolled everyday?

*I* would (and did) create a list that included everything I needed to think about. I wanted to ensure every facet of my entire life was accounted for, but it all fit neatly on a small sheet of paper that I folded up in my billfold. (It's funny how important life lessons, skills, and perspectives are applicable to all areas.)

I would not be a part of an open marriage. That is not to say I would immediately have divorce papers drawn up, but I would not be willing to engage with a W at any level who is actively in another relationship. I would not respond to any communication that was not about my children.

But that is me, and that is, if I recall correctly, actually counter to a lot of "win your spouse back" advice. So you have to find your own bearings and your own barometer. I know mine, and I won't let anyone's advice let me compromise my core values.

So the answer to that question really has to come from you. Really think about what your boundaries are and how you would enforce them according to however you derive your value system. Be certain those come from YOU, then stand firm in your convictions no matter what your feelings are telling you at any given time.

These are some of the beautiful consequences of an authentic introspective look such as this. You find out who you really are and you master the art of self-discipline. This is what I would call "true manliness" that has been chased out of our culture, but that is an aside.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

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Quote:
So say in practical terms, if one of my boundaries is that I cannot participate in an open marriage, how would I do the right thing with respect to that boundary being steamrolled everyday?


The way I see it is whenever you make this statement to a woman who is wayward, you had better be sitting on ready. It is not a threat to her. You can't control her. So what does that leave? You have to be the one to remove yourself from the open M, if you can't tolerate it. She obviously can live in an open M.

I am not saying anything is wrong with this boundary. I am saying that sometimes men read it here as an example on the board and think, "Yeah, that's what I'll tell her! She'll get her act together then." Not true.

You are telling her what YOU can't tolerate, not what she has to do. That is her decision to make. If she does nothing about it (as in ending her A), you then assume she is fine living in an open M and you plan to to leave.....or ask her to leave (which again, you can't make her do). If you use her refusal to leave as your excuse for remaining with her.....you have lost your standing. I have seen men do that here on the board, and if they knew how weak it looked in the eyes of the WW, they would never have made that statement in the first place!

Be careful, Bing. You are still trying to use something to snap her out of her waywardness. You will end up cutting off your nose to spite your face, if you aren't careful. You always follow through when you lay a boundary. Otherwise, what good does it serve?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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WW really pushing for divorce. Sandi, to your point I have definitely cut off my nose here as me initiating the mediation consultation and setting ultimatums has really accelerated my situation. Though after the introspection I've been doing at PMs suggestion, I'm coming around on being supportive of divorce myself. WW is madly in love with OM and wants to be with him forever. A man she's seen once and who lives in another state. Best of luck to them. The first reflection I had when I did PMs exercise was that I will not pursue or engage in unhealthy relationships. I'd say dropping the rope here is true to that value , yes?

Last night WW was pushing hard to work out our divorce decisions (custody, assets, etc). I tried the "I don't support this so I won't participate" defense, but eventually caved and hammered through the particulars. Neither of us can afford lawyers and she is fully convinced I am the source of her unhappiness and resentful of me. I actually felt we came away with a fair agreement on our own which is good - didn't want to lose my shorts.

And now it's just a matter of getting it on paper and filing at the courthouse (a requirement in my state since we have minor children).

Here is our email exchange from this morning. Critique away:

From WW:

Hey,

So I looked in to the "ICan Website" that the mediator mentioned. It actually seems pretty simple. It gives you a fact sheet to fill out (attached) and then you just fill in your answers to each question. Then you bring that form to the courts to file.

I know you are worried I am making the wrong decision for the girls, and maybe in a year or two I will realize that I did and it will be too late. Im just really unhappy right now, and I need to figure out my own things. I truly am sorry for hurting you, I know I went about things the exact wrong way. I hope at somepoint you will be able to forgive me, I would really like to be able to get along well gor the girls. I hated that my parents fought all the time, and I hope that doesnt happen to us.

Are you planning on being home early? Do you think you could pick the girls up? If not its fine. I have an appointment at 5, but I can cancel or bring the girls.

Let me know,
(STBX Bing)

My response:

Hello,

This looks fine. I'm glad we were able to work through most of the details last night - not much left to do now.

I'm sorry you are hurting. I hope you are able to sort through the causes of your pain and I'm sorry for anything I've done to contribute.

Thank you for acknowledging my perspective. I can't pretend to have any interest in wanting to be friends or have a good relationship with you when we are divorced. I think the affair has blocked us from having any chance of attempting to work on our issues and I'm sad the girls are caught in the middle. But the girls are strong and I know they'll be fine. I also have no desire in fighting with you or being uncivil. I'm just not that way, and if you have doubts I'm confident my actions will reflect otherwise.

Good luck to you (STBX). Thanks for getting everything in order.

P.s. I will pick up the girls, no problem.

Bing


Weak, accusatory, giving her an easy way out? Probably. But I need to drop the rope on this unhealthy relationship and since I stated my boundary on an open marriage, I would be a coward to back down now.

Wish me luck - I'll probably be here looking for GAL advice when D is finalized.

Thanks for all the advice and well wishes.

Bing


Me: 30 W: 25
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To the question at the end of your first paragraph: yes!

Remember, one tactic you can choose to use is 'delay'. There is nothing wrong with telling her the truth by saying,

"You know what? There are a lot of really big decisions in here and I need some time to think it through." If she presses: "I will not be rushed on this. If you want me to be cooperative, allow me time to process this information."

Regarding your response, remember: less is more. You don't have to share all of your feelings with her; it is, in fact, counterproductive to do so. Something like:

"Hello,

This looks fine. I'm glad we were able to work through most of the details last night - not much left to do now.

I'm sorry you are hurting. I hope you are able to sort through the causes of your pain and I'm sorry for anything I've done to contribute.

Thank you for acknowledging my perspective. I can't pretend to have any interest in wanting to be friends or have a good relationship with you when we are divorced. I think the affair has blocked us from having any chance of attempting to work on our issues and I'm sad the girls are caught in the middle. But the girls are strong and I know they'll be fine. I also have no desire in fighting with you or being uncivil. I'm just not that way, and if you have doubts I'm confident my actions will reflect otherwise.

Good luck to you (STBX). Thanks for getting everything in order.

P.s.
I will pick up the girls, no problem.

Bing"

All the best!

-PM

Last edited by PatientMan; 03/18/15 10:34 PM.

M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
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