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MCS Offline OP
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I keep thinking about this whole 'not feeling safe' thing that she is using to prevent us from talking. I'm not sure why it bothers me, maybe because I don't understand where it is coming from.

I don't want to discard this feeling that she says she has, I want to understand it. The only thing I can guess is that this is part of the justification that she had in doing what she did. I bought into this before I knew about OM, but her reasons were all over the place and were pretty trivial. I then felt that she felt this way because of not knowing what my reaction would be about the A. Since then, it seems like this is just a pre-canned excuse. For a month we've been interacting a lot better, then when MC states the progress she defaults back to this same statement. I wonder if the fact that we were progressing caught her by surprise.

I guess if I look back, the A wasn't a new thing that caused her to leave right after it started, this has been going on for a long time. Interestingly, at one point about a year ago I caught her in a flat out lie. It wasn't about anything horrible, but I asked her why she felt she had to lie to me. She said that she knew what I would say, so she didn't want to tell me. I see that this was as she was starting the spiral of OM and I let it go at the time and didn't think anything of it, but I guess she spent a year actively trying to deceive me and everyone. She needs to get herself through that.

In fact when she later told she has pursued OP during various stages of our relationship, I realized that there are some serious internal struggles she has. This is not based on something with me or happened recently in our marriage. I'm not quite sure why she told me this, I thought that it was a good sign as she was identified her own issues but I also wonder if she's using that to justify in her mind that she never was in love with me in the first place.

Its almost like this is part MLC for her. I think she knows that I would support her in some of these areas she didn't want to address herself. In our lives we always had a good ability to use each other to guide us during our struggles. However, I think she was (or still is) not ready to address these issues. She had a rough childhood and took a bunch of responsibility earlier than needed due to her parent's divorce; her dad leaving their lives for the most part and her mom re-focusing just on herself when her kids were in need. My W identified this at about 14-15 and start to really care for her younger siblings. In fact, at one of the original MC sessions, she said she felt just like she did back then. She's told me most of this is because she was overwhelmed an I think that she has defaulted to the pattern that her Mom had. This wasn't MCS original thought, but was told to me by my SIL.

I just wish I (or someone) could help her. Seeing her this week and how she looked shows me that she's struggling. I keep reminding myself that's a good thing for our sitch, but then it dawns on me that this is the person I've cared for most in my life.

Lastly, I figured out that at a minimum the friendship with OM is still ongoing even though the A is not public. The OM's GF doesn't know still. This makes me feel worse because as I said to the MC; W doesn't realize that she's chasing the person that continues to use her, while the person that is waiting to support her is being discarded. I just feel really bad for her right now. There goes my 'protector' trait again. I guess I can't worry about that.


M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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Originally Posted By: MCS
I keep thinking about this whole 'not feeling safe' thing that she is using to prevent us from talking. I'm not sure why it bothers me, maybe because I don't understand where it is coming from.

MCS why should it come from anywhere? This is W feeling from her!

I don't want to discard this feeling that she says she has, I want to understand it.

You may never understand another's feelings. Even if you did things will move on.

The only thing I can guess is that this is part of the justification that she had in doing what she did. I bought into this before I knew about OM, but her reasons were all over the place and were pretty trivial.

they are probably not trivial to W


I then felt that she felt this way because of not knowing what my reaction would be about the A.

Mind reading MCS. It could be about the colour of the curtains.

Since then, it seems like this is just a pre-canned excuse.

she sounds stuck

For a month we've been interacting a lot better, then when MC states the progress she defaults back to this same statement. I wonder if the fact that we were progressing caught her by surprise.

Mind reading again

I guess if I look back, the A wasn't a new thing that caused her to leave right after it started, this has been going on for a long time. Interestingly, at one point about a year ago I caught her in a flat out lie. It wasn't about anything horrible, but I asked her why she felt she had to lie to me. She said that she knew what I would say, so she didn't want to tell me

MCS, W is an adult. Let her take the consequences of her lies, call it in a good way. W, this seems different to me, there is X and Y which I differs from Z that you just stated.

I see that this was as she was starting the spiral of OM and I let it go at the time and didn't think anything of it, but I guess she spent a year actively trying to deceive me and everyone. She needs to get herself through that.


MCS, W does not need to do anything.

In fact when she later told she has pursued OP during various stages of our relationship, I realized that there are some serious internal struggles she has. This is not based on something with me or happened recently in our marriage. I'm not quite sure why she told me this, I thought that it was a good sign as she was identified her own issues but I also wonder if she's using that to justify in her mind that she never was in love with me in the first place.

MCS concentrated on MCS and being the best MCS you can be. Mind reading W, you can damage yourself by being concerned whether you were loved. move on to today MCS. The past is gone.

Its almost like this is part MLC for her. I think she knows that I would support her in some of these areas she didn't want to address herself.

tell her in MC

In our lives we always had a good ability to use each other to guide us during our struggles.

However, I think she was (or still is) not ready to address these issues.

She will be ready when she is. To her timetable, that of her own.

She had a rough childhood and took a bunch of responsibility earlier than needed due to her parent's divorce; her dad leaving their lives for the most part and her mom re-focusing just on herself when her kids were in need. My W identified this at about 14-15 and start to really care for her younger siblings. In fact, at one of the original MC sessions, she said she felt just like she did back then.

that is quite some responsibility for a youngster, I am in awe that she did that. Step up to the plate, quite remarkable and caring but probably overwhelming, but she did it.

She's told me most of this is because she was overwhelmed an I think that she has defaulted to the pattern that her Mom had.

any kid of that age would be overwhelmed. That is definitely not her moms pattern MCS. From V eyes at that age was the opposite. Great forbearance in W and great capacity.

This wasn't MCS original thought, but was told to me by my SIL.

I just wish I (or someone) could help her.

you will have to let W do this. Let go of trying to help W. MCS has enough with MCS.

Seeing her this week and how she looked shows me that she's struggling. I keep reminding myself that's a good thing for our sitch, but then it dawns on me that this is the person I've cared for most in my life.

Lastly, I figured out that at a minimum the friendship with OM is still ongoing even though the A is not public. The OM's GF doesn't know still.

GFs business, she may or may not.

This makes me feel worse because as I said to the MC; W doesn't realize that she's chasing the person that continues to use her, while the person that is waiting to support her is being discarded.

W choice.

I just feel really bad for her right now.

this is as hard as feeling bad for oneself. However unreasonable it may be or uncomfortable. MCS look after MCS
There goes my 'protector' trait again. I guess I can't worry about that.


Stop. MCS you are trying to understand in order to put things in place. life is messy, R is messy and even if ordered will become disordered.

Concentrate on MCS and your lovely precious children

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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V,

As I was writing that yesterday, I pretty much knew you were going to say what you just did, concentrate on MCS. As far as the role she took as a teenager, I agree it was selfless and mature. That is the character of the person that I've known for 15 years. My statement about her feeling overwhelmed was she said she felt that way in our M. The comparison I stated to her mom was that I'm guessing that when her parents got D, her mom felt that way (too overwhelmed) and withdrew from her kids in which my W picked up the 'motherly' pieces. It seems as if W has done the same thing. Got overwhelmed and withdrew into her own world over the last year. It doesn't matter, just I can empathize with her sitch.

I don't know what it was about our MC session the other day, but writing this now is different than before. Before, I wanted to be 'part' of her journey through this, now I'm just 'observing' what I think the journey is. I feel bad for her in a 'TV movie' kind of way, you understand the plight and the struggles; but sitting on the sideline with no ability to help. It's no longer taxing on me and consuming me like it was before.
____________________
For me, I think the main thing is that I know I'm going to be just fine in all of this. I'm not bearing the responsibility that I once was for her actions. They are hers, period. I look back and our marriage was normal and fine. She chose this path and chose to keep me out of trying to deal with her struggles. I guess for me, the attempt for justification of the sitch now in my mind is that I'm struggling to give 'myself' a timeline for her to work this stuff out.

I care for her and want to wait it out for our relationship, because we had something good. I see clearly that she tried to deal with her struggles on her own while we were together and I think this path is a cheese-less tunnel for her. The rejection is not weighing on me too heavy for some reason. However, the kids are what keeps me patient. Its not that I think we should get back together for the kids, but the kids are bolstering my patience to wait it out and not move on.

As far as the kids, I change my tune a little at MC this week and told her I was going to take them to counseling and didn't ask her. We had them come to our MC one week and it was pretty uneventful, but I need someone that can build a rapport with them. Their issues are not being interjected into their personalities and most of their interactions, but they talk to me about their feelings when they get comfortable mostly before bed.

Last edited by MCS; 02/27/15 08:04 PM.

M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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MCS

It is possible that W can find her way back to W, an new improved W and it will be in her own time. W appears lost to W.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 02/28/15 08:22 AM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Hi MCS

I just wanted to weigh in on the whole 'not feeling safe' thing, not that I have any advice to give

I think you know from my situation that my wife says the sane thing. It really bothers/hurts/upsets me because in my mind its just not what I would do and I feel like I actually spent a lot of the time putting my needs and concerns aside (wrongly I now know) in an effort NOT to hurt or upset her.

So it really stings because 1) I can see in her actions that she truly feels this way and 2) because it fundamentally challenges my sense of self.

Now I can see how different things I said or did hurt her, some directly others less so and sometimes there was nothing wrong with what I said but it accidentally tapped into some internal source if hurt within her. So as Vanilla said we may never understand why she feels that way all we can do is look at the bits if behaviour if ours that we aren't comfortable with.

And to illustrate, my W is afraid of daddy long legs (crane fly), they can't hurt her in anyway but yet she is still afraid of them.

You can hurt her so even if you don't, or even hint at it, thats still enough in itself to make her afraid, especially if she expects you to.

Last edited by jim0987; 02/28/15 08:40 AM.

Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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Jim, V,

Thanks, yeah this feeling definitely hurts, cause like you, Jim, not feelin 'safe' around me would be the last thing I would ever think of someone saying about me. As V says, I think she's stuck. I can see these feelings manifesting themselves since she kept A a secret for so long. I would think she probably constantly was wondering of i was catching on. I wonder if this is residual and is thawing a little since I confronted her. I haven't heard her say this for a while, but it was the MC that was applying a little bit of pressure for us to continue to talk outside of C when she said it.

Anyway, went out to an outing at a friends house with a bunch of people yesterday, which was fun. I emailed W because I forgot to pack snow boots for the kids and said non-descriptly that I was going out and would be in her area of she wanted me to drop them off. Trying to project some mystery on my status, but I don't think she's noticing or really even cares right now.


M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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MCS

She is noticing.

This is early days for MCS GAL.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 03/01/15 06:39 AM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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MCS Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
MCS

She is noticing.

This is early days for MCS GAL.

V


Yep, I suppose. I guess I threw it out there as a litmus test. I also said I could "drop them off" since she has made it known before she moved that she doesn't want me near her house. Another weird thing, I have no idea why. I joked to someone that she didn't want me to see the OM shrine like one of those creepy movies wink I initially asked if I could stop by and see the kids arrangements especially cause my kids are there and they were sleeping on the floor in her apartment, but it's not worth pursuing it. Anyway, I think the main reason is there's more for her to hide and she realizes that talking with her she lets out more than she wants.

For me, I'm lonely but feeling somewhat comfortable with my 'new' life. Need to start GAL in public in earnest soon. I've run out of things to upgrade around the house....


M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
M
MCS Offline OP
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OP Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
Today, I continue to realize how much W is trying to blame me with her problems even though I've been out of her life for 6 months.

So, D4 must have gotten sick last night. W sends me a message saying that she was sick and she was taking her to doctors. This was a good thing since the other week, she took S5 and never told me. Well, anyway, she asked in the email if I could pick up D4 at a gas station at 4pm. Here's my response verbatim:

"W,
No, I can't meet up prior to 5:15. Also, I would prefer not to do kids exchanges in parking lots.
--MCS"

Anyway I get a message later saying she dropped D4 at daycare and I could pick her up there. Well, why would you drop your sick kid at daycare at the end of the day ~1.5 hours before closing?

So, I called daycare to apologize about W dropping off sick kid. Daycare said it was no worry, they knew that was W decision and not mine. Also said that daycare told W that if D5 is sick, she should stay home the whole day so other kids don't get sick. Well, daycare told me at that point, W looked away and looked like she was going to start to cry and said "MCS has been really difficult today." I don't know if it was to try and get a reaction or probably just to deflect the blame.

So, daycare told me they knew that W was making things up and didn't believe her. so before, I would just go back and try to figure out where my communication went a stray to how she 'felt.' Today, I see it doesn't matter anything I say will be taking in the wrong context.


M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
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I think you're right that you shouldn't take it too personally, that everything will be taken the wrong way. It's part of human nature when there is mistrust.

I will say that your text message was a bit curt. In fact, I read your first line, then the text message, so I thought it was hers for a second and felt you had reasons to be upset. Perhaps this:

"I'm sorry, I can't meet up prior to 5:15 because of work. Also, I'd like to find a nicer place than parking lots. Perhaps [park X nearby]? Thanks"

I'm not sure why you don't like the parking lots, but the text could be adapted to your reasons. Also, notice that my reply makes it less work for her, if she goes for the suggested place.

I know how tense the communications are with your W. I'm not going through anything similar as mine seems keen to engage beyond what I offer. I'm just saying that given that she seems offended by everything you say, there might be some social lubricant to help eventually.

I know you don't mean to, but be very careful not to appear to put the daycare staff in between you and your W. I think calling them to apologize on behalf of your W was just that. Your W did the same when she said you're being difficult. You're fighting for their sympathy. Right now, it plays in your favor, but soon it could turn against you because either the staff will become uncomfortable or your W will realize that they are on your side. Keep playing cool and they will just see.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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