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Originally Posted By: Complex
Wife gone over the weekend skiing with her friend (I know it's not OM, I actually have high doubts they are talkinv very much, they def still don't meet outside of work).

I look forward to when your posts (and thoughts) are NOT about HER or who SHE is with or how SHE feels, b/c that will be a sign of progress in detaching, which you must do.



I'll have coworkers over tonight for a wine tasting! Funnnn


^^^Good idea!



Working a lot at the office and working out a lot too. Stupid Prozac tho still feels like a bit of a rollercoaster ride. In the morning it feels like the last dose "wore off" am I feel horrible. Once I eat breakfast pop the next pill and leave the house I feel good^^

It sounds as if time will help. If not, let the doc know. I took Paxil when my dad died and I wasn't "snapping out" of my grief. I swear I noticed a difference within a few days. Less circular "what if??" went on in my head.

Then 2 weeks after I started, I found myself tapping the steering wheel on the way to work, to a song on the radio. That's when I realized, "wow, I am getting better"



I'm still thinking about her dad. Is this a normal reaction of family that they are humongously devastated and disappointed due to their high moral values?


Is it "normal? I think it's mind reading AND expectations and hope on YOUR Part, that at some point it will effect your w. (Which is you wanting to manage the outcome).

That's my take on it. Assuming it's ALL about his "high moral values" also gets to make you feel more victimized and demonizes her. Maybe her dad loves you and fears losing you...

As far as you know, your wife has not had a PA (yes, there are those who doubt this, but for now, let's just say that she has admitted to feelings for OM)

and what you KNOW is that she wants out of the m b/c SHE feels you let her down in several ways.

(Once upon a time, you admitted this as well).

Til you accept that this is ^^ HER Perception, which is HER reality, you'll keep going in circles. How does that help you move forward?


Did anyone experience this and how turned this out later in the sitch?


Here, ^^ You are attaching HOPES/EXPECTATIONS to your perception of her father's emotions and your belief that the reasons are his "high moral values"?

Can you see how you having expectations has NOT helped you move at all?

It keeps you stuck.


In the end they all love her again I suppose, if they had a good relationship in the first place.
Lot of family scenarios how it can develop but I guess not really my concern, although it feels very good for my ego that I have their support and love.

Then just leave it at ^^ that. They care for you. No matter what, that's a good thing.

It's also interesting how I actually learned how to love my W in this sitch. It's weird. Detavhing and loving more at the same time, is that possible?

Everyone have a nice weekend!


You too!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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You are right. In my head it's just not over before it's over. On one hand I want a clean cut so I can move forward faster. But the other hand outweighs significantly that I'm alright the way things are right now. I've been through enough and I've grown a lot already and I will keep growing and it doesn't get to me as much as it used to anymore.
Yes my mind is still circling, but not as much anymore. Right now I'm also feeling for all the people who's hearts got broken too additional to mine and I'll pray for them. During the last few weeks of soul searching I weirdly feel more committed to my marriage than ever. I see a scenario of reconciliation, I'm not convinced if my mind is not just making stuff up. But I learned a lot about love. I wasn't a good enough husband, I wasn't mature enough. But saying this I also notice that I am still way too hard on myself, bc I am a great person, I have a huge heart, I'm honest, authentic..there's not much at all not to be liked about me. If I continue to grow I'll be a great man to someone some day. SOMEONE and myself! But it's still a journey. One about myself first. I need to find my own happiness again. Because I feel like I lost it..and that it's still a long search. But I'm convinced I can find it again. I can't be the icing on someone else's cake if I don't have a cake (cake = happiness) myself. And W doesn't have a cake right now either where I could put my icing on (lol this sounded nasty).
Baking is not an art tho. It's a science! You just need the right ingredients and then you need to mix them with the right proportions. My oven is pre heated and I'm still gathering some of the ingredients.
Ok I'm getting a little sidetracked here. I'll eventually be fine, is what I was gonna say.

Today I'm going to the Spa with my boss and workers, a company treat for good performance in February. This is going to be fun. Then I'll work all night.
It's actually nice to have the condo myself. Complex home alone wink




Last edited by Complex; 02/28/15 10:35 PM.

Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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After a very relaxing weekend it's going to be a very busy week at work.
The meds don't make me feel crazy again but I feel just like before I started them.
My mind is STILL circling, although I'm doing a lot of GAL activities.
But I just have to accept that until I'm decently healed it's still gonna take a year or two. Right now I'm just mad at W, for what she has done. And I found my own boundaries, what my values, morals are, what I can accept and what I can't and what I want in my life and what kind of people.
And I'm starting to get more proud of myself for what I've done the past couple years.
W's dad invited me to lunch again. "I have some more thoughts to share" he said. I agreed and we meet on Wednesday.
Any suggestion what I can actively do to reduce my "anger" towards W and get my mind off things? Are there any tecniques like the one I posted in Susanas thread "bad worry, good worry, catch it and distract them"?


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
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Specific question regarding communication with W.

She asked me this morning how my wine tasting was. All I answered was it was great. And I asked back how the ski trip was. She copied my short response and just said it was good. That was the whole conversation.

My mentor said why don't you just be yourself when she asks you sth. Tell her sth about the night, be enjoyable but don't overdo it or make it too long but why don't you tell her enthusiastically about it?
If you are short and distant she will do the same to you. She's copying your behaviour.

Whats your thought on this? To me it makes sense.

Last edited by Complex; 03/03/15 09:08 PM.

Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Originally Posted By: Complex
Specific question regarding communication with W.

She asked me this morning how my wine tasting was. All I answered was it was great. And I asked back how the ski trip was. She copied my short response and just said it was good. That was the whole conversation.

My mentor said why don't you just be yourself when she asks you sth. Tell her sth about the night, be enjoyable but don't overdo it or make it too long but why don't you tell her enthusiastically about it?
If you are short and distant she will do the same to you. She's copying your behaviour.

Whats your thought on this? To me it makes sense.


A lot of us kept it short because a WAS lies and gaslights a lot. So it can be stressful to truly communicate with them.

If it is a db coach I would seriously consider the advise because they are familiar with these situations.

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If you're dialing it back JUST to try to respond in some certain way to her -- and it's not authentic to you -- then I agree with your mentor. As 25 pointed out to you above, your W is way too much in your head, so yeah I'd just be yourself (so long as you con't cross over into "pursuing."

I might also advise you to be a little more outgoing if these are the ONLY opportunities your W has of seeing you interact, whereas if there are times during the week and month that she is able to observe you, in person, interacting with other people (especially other women), I think you could be shorter with her ("treat her like a neighbor") and she'd still be able to see the witty, charming, confident Complex in his interactions with, say, the moms at the soccer fields and the like (just using that as an example, for others following along).

Make sense?

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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It does make sense. Especially knowing that W is asking me to be nothing else than myself since BD. And as much as I want the M to happen, I have to be myself or I won't be happy in it either. Who wants someone who's changing just for you. We want a complete person, a complete and authentic character to love us, not someone who would do literally everything for us. That's boring.
I gotta be the outgoing myself that I used to be, without pursuing.

And yes my W is in my head too much. I started to accept it in a certain way. I am who I am. I work hard on myself. I'm definitely moving forward in huge steps in my life on the hunt to find my personal happiness back. I think I'm doing fine so far. I'm not letting myself down anymore. Things I should've done a long time ago. But now is now and I can only do my best from here on. I matured a lot.
And it's fine to interact with W as long as I'm authentic, string and calm and not trying to pursue. If I wouldn't get so nervous around her at times. But after many weeks into this now I know that NC and "grumpy, short" interaction doesn't work, but friendly conversations do. Just gotta be cautios, that's all.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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So her father invited me for lunch again to share some insight with me. He sees it this way: W's biological clock is ticking, she wants to go back to school (a I mentioned before) and have a baby at one point and she's worried she can't have this kind of life with me bc I cannot support her properly.
I aaked him for his advice as a respect person but he doesn't have much of a clue either. We just chatted some about this and that and business and I reassured that I'm willing to work through this and I haven't given up yet and that I believe in us as a couple and that I have a clear picture where I want to be. And that I thank him for supporting our marriage.
He told me there's no doubt I would be a wonderful husband and father.
When he left he said in a very serious tone, I'll have to have a talk with my daughter again, find out what's going on.
Seems like he knows that I'm taking the high road, he supports the M but he also will be fairly neutral, bc he knows more than exactly that no one can control or change W's feelings.

My IC today was good too. She told me I'm making progress. She is observing my thought processes every time and I'm much better. We talked about things why I am who I am, family history and all that. But her structure gets a little clearer now and I can actually see progress on myself. Not sure if the meds kicked in, I just feel more normal again. In general more positive about myself.

And I went to a marketing workshop/networking event. That was great experience too. Learned a lot, met a lot of interesting people. On Tuesday I'll go to my first real professional networking event, kind of a challenge for me.

All in all I'm busier than ever and feel a little better. I am finally acknowledging that I do a lot for myself and I'm less hard on myself.

This reflected also in communication with W. Tonight she told me a lot about her ski trip and I shared some of my weekend with her. It's a baby step, but better than this ice cold atmosphere that was around the house for a while. The distance remains tho, which is ok. Can't ask for wonders.
I just feel more confident, it really helps me to just be myself. And my thoughts are clearer. I know what I want in my life, which still includes W, and I am confident, but with NO expectations. I'm drawing a picture how life would be without her. But I think it was Descartes who once said "If we think we can't do something, we can't".

Not too bad of a day.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Complex, the more I follow your sitch and learn about these interactions, the more I'm convinced that your challenge is more of a "career path" one than a "marriage/infidelity' one.

I think if your wife were more convinced of your likelihood for success and stability, she'd be back with you by now. HOWEVER, you need to decide if you want to be married to someone who -- when she doesn't feel secure financially -- not only cuts and runs, but runs to another MAN.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Complex, the more I follow your sitch and learn about these interactions, the more I'm convinced that your challenge is more of a "career path" one than a "marriage/infidelity' one.

I think if your wife were more convinced of your likelihood for success and stability, she'd be back with you by now. HOWEVER, you need to decide if you want to be married to someone who -- when she doesn't feel secure financially -- not only cuts and runs, but runs to another MAN.


Starsky


Yes....and yes! Good observation...I figured this out a couple weeks ago. That it took me that long is pretty crazy. I def needed to mature to see the bigger picture.

Right now I actually am so convinced that I can have a great relationship with her----from my side. Meeting her needs and understanding her and be myself and pursue my dreams and work hard for our family. It's a very legit question if I want a person who doesn't really match my own values about committment. But I believe in her being a good person.

It's simple: I continue. I can only do my best. That's all I have. If she follows at some point under my terms...good, no one knows. If she's the fool and leaves for good I'll eventually be fine and my next R will be awesome too.
One thing is for sure..I wouldn't be here today where I am without any of this happening, so I have to be thankful!

Last edited by Complex; 03/04/15 05:56 PM.

Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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