Susana (6) - Feelin' Stronger Every Day

[Mozza]

Mozza - did you ever feel the need to caress your EX1, kiss her, compliment her, cuddle with her afterward?

Honestly, it was 16 years ago and I don't remember (but I remember the fantastic sex!).

My explanation for why he was so cuddly this time is that he doesn't like to be "a dick". Last time, he tried to fulfill susana4's physical needs and this time, the emotional needs. He wants her to love him, forgive him for what he's doing. He can't bear the idea that someone somewhere doesn't like him. For him too, it can be hard to let go of the intimacy (not sex). My WAW and I ML three times during the week of S talks. She's the one who came to the bedroom to cuddle, likely because she felt the upcoming loss. She was visibly distressed and was seeking comfort, which I provided.

I'm no vet so I don't want to weigh on the DB techniques, but rather share my experience. I don't know what's going on in H's head and, as I wrote above, I think susana4 should continue along this path, for what it's worth.

[Sotto]

Yes, I agree that you should carry on as you are Susana. Certainly, your H seems to be drawing closer rather than further. I too am concerned about the comment - I don't want to be a dick - like on the one hand he wants to ML, but on the other hand, he still may feel he wants to leave. And he feels ML to you is thus unfair. But still he feels some passion and some tenderness, but on the other hand he may still want to go. That's the sense I get.

I would certainly keep your expectations pretty low. Maybe just see this as S that you are having during an uncertain time in your M, rather than a huge turn in your sitch. There could well be bends in the road ahead....and only you can know whether it's ok for you to ML and feel less detached amidst this uncertainty.

Hope you have a good weekend! T x

[Mozza]

I just thought of something else that my IC mentioned to me this week, as we spoke about sex. He put sex at the end of a spectrum of carnal pleasures and specifically mentioned food as another such pleasure. I notice that susana4's thread is a lot about food and sex lately and I would dare suggest that the two are connected. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it's not surprising that you're both such an outstanding cook and very sensual.

Susana4, your cooking sounds de-li-ci-ous and your H acknowledges all the pleasure he gets from it. It doesn't seem a stretch to me to say that those fine meals are as much an invitation to jump in bed with you as the sexy jeans.

[Calibri]

Jumping on with Mozza and Toots and Tarheel about concerns about the "I don't want to be a dick" comment.

Also concerned about the "I love living with you" comment.

Was H drunk the first time you ML?

I would just keep your expectations low -- and I would certainly suggest that you don't ML with the hopes that it will lure him back in. If you do ML -- know exactly why you're doing it and without expectations.

[Starsky309]

My explanation for why he was so cuddly this time is that he doesn't like to be "a dick". Last time, he tried to fulfill susana4's physical needs and this time, the emotional needs. He wants her to love him, forgive him for what he's doing. He can't bear the idea that someone somewhere doesn't like him.

This is pretty much how I read it too. I also think he's a smart enough guy to know that -- if he didn't kiss (and be tender with) Susana this time, after she'd told him how much it upset her last time -- he may get cut off.

I think it's nothing short of fascinating how the men and the women are reading the same incident very differently!


Starsky

[Starsky309]

P.S.

Susana, I think if you now pull back and cut him off -- playfully -- he will pursue you.

"No, not this time . . . I think we've done quite enough! (laughing) I think we should cool it for awhile. Ta-ta!"


a) you would feel great about yourself that YOU are in control; and

b) as natural pursuers, this plays to his male instincts.

I would especially do the above if he had been drinking again the next time: "I think you'd better take your drunk big head and your little head to the couch, sweetie -- let's see how we both feel about this another day, when you're sober." (again, said playfully)


Starsky

[gogofo]

Here is another male perspective.

The first time you made love was all about pleasure and getting off and control. I too aim to please and give more in bed and for me it is a control thing; I like to know I can use my body to make a woman go crazy. It is also an ego boost to know that you can get a woman off in different ways. I think your first time was all about the physical and the forbidden fruit. He was drunk and wanted to get physical pleasure and feel like a man.

This latest episode I think is about love and caring. The kissing is a VERY big deal. I definitely noticed when my W would avoid kissing me when we made love, and it was a sign that something was off (hello EA). Not to be blunt but, prostitutes do not kiss and if they do it costs extra. No I am not calling you a prostitute, I am using it as an example of the difference between sex and making love.

I have a tender heart and I enjoy making love WAY more than having sex. To me sex is almost meaningless without love. I saw a lot of myself in your last two ML sessions with your husband.

My take is this. He was drunk and wanted to f@#k the first time, many men feel this way after drinking. After that I think his heart opened up to emotions and has seen a kinder gentler DB version of yourself.

The second time he wanted to have the emotional and physical connection of making love. I would assume he was less focused on getting you off and more focused on the shared experience. Lots of kissing and eye contact and more loving gestures.

The I don't want to be a dick part? I would interpret it as his insecurities manifesting and not wanting to be seen as using you as a sex toy. The thoughts I would be having would be the feeling of emotional closeness and vulnerability about having sex again and not wanting it to be seen as only purely physical. I would want my W to know that sex means more than just physical pleasure. But these are my feelings. I always felt sex was easy anyone can have it, making love is special and meaningful and not everyone gets to experience it.

I would wager to say he will back off into his cave again and seem confused. His heart should be open ever so slightly more to emotional connection and he may start to ask you or give you hints about wanting to know how you feel emotionally about the sex. Last time he was excited he got you off, this time he may want to know that there was an emotional connection there as well. He will probably be mulling this over in his head as he zones out in front of a TV. Give him space to figure it out and let him be.

The I love living with you comment. My guess would be he is a typical male and states what immediately seems to be what he likes, living with you. He probably hasn't gone deeper in his thoughts as to WHY he loves it. Remember we speak from different planets. I would take this as a positive sign. Men like the feeling of comfort. It looks to be a sign that the road back is getting smoother and smoother.

[gogofo]

P.S.

Susana, I think if you now pull back and cut him off -- playfully -- he will pursue you.

"No, not this time . . . I think we've done quite enough! (laughing) I think we should cool it for awhile. Ta-ta!"


a) you would feel great about yourself that YOU are in control; and

b) as natural pursuers, this plays to his male instincts.

I would especially do the above if he had been drinking again the next time: "I think you'd better take your drunk big head and your little head to the couch, sweetie -- let's see how we both feel about this another day, when you're sober." (again, said playfully)


Starsky

He is hitting the nail on the head right there. You can take back control and he would follow you like a puppy with his tongue out.

[Zelda09]

I think Gogofo has some great insight and is a pretty even read.

Again, I gave drunk or not ML sessions a big part of credit for the connection and walls that started dissolving. If we hadn't had that, I wonder if my H and I would have found the point of it all again. I have no doubt there was a likelihood it could have all just been something physical in an alternate universe nearby. No one wants to see you hurt.

Don't let us and our armchair look at it all rattle you - there's no way to know, your H probably doesn't! But we all agree I think you're on the right track.

[susana4]

Wow, this has opened so much debate!!

Zues, Wonka, Zelda, Mozza, Tarheel, Calibri, Starsky, Gogofo (think that's everyone!) - thanks so, so much for your different viewpoints - I really appreciate hearing all of the different thoughts and it's interesting how much feelings around sex, and reactions to it, vary by person!

Lots and lots for me to think about.

I just wanted to say - I have low to no expectations here. Frankly, I am happy to be ML because I don't know when I'll next get an opportunity and I have a very high sex drive... But, I am trying my best to follow Cadet's advice - no expectations! I know sex is sex is sex. I am going to keep on doing what I've been doing.

Starsky - just wanted to say I did NOT tell H I was bothered last time about the no kissing! The only thing I told him after last time was "I had fun" (when he asked if we should talk about it) - and then changed the subject.
Great advice on what to do next time. I think that would work a treat. Just need to make sure I carry it out and don't get carried away (I'm not really one to turn sex down, I can only think of one instance when I ever turned H down, I know it's men who typically "think with the wrong head" but even though I'm a woman, I do that too!). But I need to stay strong, because that sounds like an awesome plan.