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#2542213 02/25/15 05:33 PM
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Married 13 years with three kids 6,8, and 12yo girl. Wife had asked for a separation after a move and a job change. I had to attend training and agreed to stay away to let her think about what she wanted. While gone I discovered that she was having an affair. I suspected this all long but she was masterful in lying and deception and it had been going on for months before this. Mostly they have been communicating through prepaid cell, Viber and Skype as these can be erased and hidden more easily. After confronting her she denied but I had already complied the evidence and she eventually admitted what was going on insisting that it had not gotten to sex yet. She tells me later that it was sexual. To top it off the man she is seeing is a divorce attorney! She continues to lie, manipulate, and hide many things and I honestly don't know when she's telling the truth about anything.

Update:

She says affair is over and I can no longer see thats its active going on. Trust but verify and seems to be over. We are seeing counselor but not getting anywhere fast.

She is completely disconnected and says she wants to save the marriage, says she is trying but I see very little effort. Maybe I am too hurt to see progress or I'm grasping at straws. She has ZERO desire to be intimate and is a struggle just to sit in the same room together.

We are sleeping in the same bed but very separated. She never snuggles up or reaches for me in anyway. I'll try and at least place a hand on her back or some part of me touching her hoping for a connection but all is cold. sometimes she even pulls away. I have tried every romantic thing I can dream up and she has no response to anything as far as romance is concerned. She will be intimate but I might as well be by myself its as if she feels like it is her duty and I just feel terrible.

In addition when I have questions she just says she can't remember, and then when confronted with facts.... gets mad.

How do we get passed this stuck area?


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W is stay at home mom
ILYBNIWY:9-28-14
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Hi Hurt 06, welcome to the forum, and sorry you're here - but you'll find it's a great place with lots of very wise and supportive folk.

First things first - buy and read the books - DB and DR. I found DR the most helpful. It's more up to date and has a chapter devoted to infidelity. You may also want ot have a look at the affairs and infidelity section of the forum.

Observations with your w - well, she's certainly checked out of your M at the moment isn't she? Either the A is ongoing and your W is continuing to lie about this. Or, it has ended, but she may be 'grieving' the loss of it and unable to show any enthusiasm for either the M or you.

Either way, she hasn't had this all important - I want to recommit to our M and will do whatever it takes - moment.

Hilarious that he's a divorce attourney - oh dear! He should know better than that. Is he also M?

You'll be on moderation to start with, but keep posting and things will speed up for you. Normally Cadet will come along with some reading material to get you started. Just to warn you, the DB/DR approach is counter intuitive - and it can take a little while to really 'get' the concept. But stick with it and it may well save your M. And even if it doesn't, you'll feel much happier within yourself - and that's worth having!

Take Care, Toots :-)

Last edited by Toots; 02/25/15 05:51 PM.

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Hurt,

Why did your say she ended the affair and came back to the marriage?

When you two have sex, will she kiss you?

sorry you're here . . . keep posting!


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Thank you so much, I have read the DB.

Yes the OM was Married and is now legally separated and moving FWD with Divorce.

His wife is done with him and hard to believe but praying for us because of our children.


M44 H37
D13 S8 S6
Married 14
W is stay at home mom
ILYBNIWY:9-28-14
A started 04/2014
OM confirm 11/24/2014
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09/11/2015 W file for D and wants the moon
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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Hurt,

Why did your say she ended the affair and came back to the marriage?

When you two have sex, will she kiss you?

sorry you're here . . . keep posting!



1. I don't know why she ended it. She says to work on our marriage but its half hearted at best. I confronted her after a mountain of evidence, she continued and lied about it up until Jan.....maybe guilt?...she did finally admit that it had become sexual but that it only happened once. I find that very hard to believe after the mountain of other lies.

2. not really we do not have long kissing and really never have except when we were first dating. I have attempted to communicate this to her and we recently have tried kissing passionately but I feel like I am the only one interested in doing this. I seems like she is only attempting to kiss me out of duty as a wife? and only when I ask if we can try?


To be honest it seems like I am the only one interested in working hard to repair the marriage and establish a new connection? Is this normal?

Last edited by Hurt06; 02/25/15 06:12 PM.

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Quote:
She says A is over but have heard that before.


Are you referring to her lying about this A, or have there been others?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: Hurt06



To be honest it seems like I am the only one interested in working hard to repair the marriage and establish a new connection? Is this normal?


It is if she's still chemically (brain endorphines) influenced by her OM. That could be either that she's still in contact with him and lying to you about it, or it could be because she really did end it and she's going thru withdrawal. Without solid intel, it's hard to tell the difference.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Starsky...Sandi....would you two please be a dear and mosey over to TenBook's thread over in the Newcomers section and lend some support as I sense his sitch is on the edge of change.

Thanks....

Sawwwwry for the hijack...

A box of chocolate cupcakes is now on its way to you... smile cool

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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
She says A is over but have heard that before.


Are you referring to her lying about this A, or have there been others?


This is the only A I am aware of.


M44 H37
D13 S8 S6
Married 14
W is stay at home mom
ILYBNIWY:9-28-14
A started 04/2014
OM confirm 11/24/2014
Admit PA 01/05/2015
09/11/2015 W file for D and wants the moon
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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Hurt06



To be honest it seems like I am the only one interested in working hard to repair the marriage and establish a new connection? Is this normal?


It is if she's still chemically (brain endorphines) influenced by her OM. That could be either that she's still in contact with him and lying to you about it, or it could be because she really did end it and she's going thru withdrawal. Without solid intel, it's hard to tell the difference.


Starsky


I was thinking the same thing on withdrawal. She has screamed in detail( salt and pepper hair, Smile, etc) at me all the things she doesn't like about me and then later says that the never said those horrible things. I wish I had a video camera.


She has been tested for hormones and has a slight imbalance. High Estrogen and almost no Progesterone among other imbalances with thyroid. She is having trouble with her hair, skin, and has developed a mysterious acid reflux that no doctor can find. She has admitted in counseling that everything is foggy and has been for a while. I not sure about all this.....very lost and confused while trying to deal with my own grief from the affair.

Last edited by Hurt06; 02/25/15 06:44 PM.

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Hi Hurt06.

My W and I are in a very similar situation. It's amazing how similar the rhetoric is with unfaithful spouses.

My W had an EA a few months ago. She cut things off in December, and from everything I can tell she is sticking to no contact, but she is definitely grieving. She also says that she wants to reconnect with me, but doesn't know how. The sad fact is that until she goes through that grieving process and gets OM out of her system, she won't be able to reconnect with you. There's no shortcuts. Patience is your friend.

Affairs are almost always results, not root causes, of other relationship issues. You're not responsible for her decision to have an A, but it's important for you to honestly assess your role in setting the stage for it. What was missing in your relationship that she was trying to find in her A? Addressing those preexisting issues will be vital to healing your M.

You mentioned things she criticized you for and then claimed not to remember? That's not unusual. My W criticized me for things like reading books and going to church. She dug up things I supposedly said or did 15 years ago (most of which I don't remember) to justify her behavior. This thing she's in is a fog, no doubt.

Keep posting. You have found a great place on this board.

Last edited by Rzrback; 02/25/15 06:51 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Rzrback
Hi Hurt06.

My W had an EA a few months ago. She cut things off in December, and from everything I can tell she is sticking to no contact, but she is definitely grieving. She also says that she wants to reconnect with me, but doesn't know how.

Keep posting. You have found a great place on this board.



Rzrback

Thanks for the support! My wife said the same thing back in SEP, that it was just and "Emotional Affair". She lied about all this to our pastor and continued for several months to deny and lie about the sexual part. She has also said she wants to reconnect but doesn't know how. I have heard the "I Love you, but I'm not in love with you" and never meant to hurt you statement.

I travel out of town a lot and she seems to look forward to me being gone. I feel like I am walking on glass and trying to stay neutral and non conformational about everything. I do occasionally slip and let my emotions get the best of me with her around but I am working hard to get a handle on this.

Any questions I try and tactfully raise are met with anger and "you will never get over this" and our marriage is damaged beyond repair statement s from her. Yet she stays and says she wants to work on things....very confusing.

We do have deeply rooted communication problems that I have been working on for months. I am seeing a separate therapist and have learned and incredible amount about myself and how I was throwing myself into work and not meeting the needs of my wife in a way that needed.....I have done a complete lifetlye change. I accept that I had a part in "setting up my marriage for the affair and accept full responsibility for my part" I have worked trolleys to improve myself and will be better no matter what the outcome. I am 1000% committed to my wife and kids and just need to gt the fog lifted so that we can have a marriage that is 100 times better than what we used to have.


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W is stay at home mom
ILYBNIWY:9-28-14
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OM confirm 11/24/2014
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Originally Posted By: Hurt06


Rzrback

Thanks for the support! My wife said the same thing back in SEP, that it was just and "Emotional Affair". She lied about all this to our pastor and continued for several months to deny and lie about the sexual part. She has also said she wants to reconnect but doesn't know how. I have heard the "I Love you, but I'm not in love with you" and never meant to hurt you statement.

I travel out of town a lot and she seems to look forward to me being gone. I feel like I am walking on glass and trying to stay neutral and non conformational about everything. I do occasionally slip and let my emotions get the best of me with her around but I am working hard to get a handle on this.

Any questions I try and tactfully raise are met with anger and "you will never get over this" and our marriage is damaged beyond repair statement s from her. Yet she stays and says she wants to work on things....very confusing.

We do have deeply rooted communication problems that I have been working on for months. I am seeing a separate therapist and have learned and incredible amount about myself and how I was throwing myself into work and not meeting the needs of my wife in a way that needed.....I have done a complete lifetlye change. I accept that I had a part in "setting up my marriage for the affair and accept full responsibility for my part" I have worked trolleys to improve myself and will be better no matter what the outcome. I am 1000% committed to my wife and kids and just need to gt the fog lifted so that we can have a marriage that is 100 times better than what we used to have.


Good! It's good to hear that you're looking at yourself. And again, what your W is saying is very common. Much of it is not an attempt to lie to you per se, but rather to lie to themselves and justify their behavior in their mind. I'm willing to wager she's as angry or angrier with herself than she is with you.

I will caution you on "getting the fog lifted". A core principle of DB is that you have zero control over your spouse's thoughts or actions. Your primary responsibility (other than your children) is to work on yourself; to become the best version of yourself you can be. Not to win her back; she will only decide that on her own, but rather to be the best man you can be. You will need to do that to weather what's coming. Be the best man you can be, but let go of any expectations about how your marriage will turn out. This is something I still struggle with.

As painful as this has been, I'm in a way glad that it happened. It was and is a rite of passage for me; I've changed in so many positive ways, physically and emotionally. I've been able to finally overcome some early personal baggage and get on a path to what will be a better life, regardless of what happens in my marriage.

I'm glad to see you're working with a therapist. Make sure to Get A Life (GAL). That could mean spending time with your kids, getting in shape, working on your career and/or business, practicing your faith, if that applies, taking up (or resuming) activities that make you happy. Be a strong, stable, positive presence when you're with your W, no matter how she's feeling that day. That will help you create a life you want and just might get your W to start thinking twice about giving up on you.


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That's a great post, Rzr.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Quote:
She has been tested for hormones and has a slight imbalance. High Estrogen and almost no Progesterone among other imbalances with thyroid. She is having trouble with her hair, skin, and has developed a mysterious acid reflux that no doctor can find. She has admitted in counseling that everything is foggy and has been for a while. I not sure about all this.....very lost and confused while trying to deal with my own grief from the affair.


I want to share something personal with you. I have serious hormone imbalance problems. I have to go, at least once a month, to a hormone balancing specialist. You would not believe the amount of meds I have to take, and extremely expensive. I have so many things wrong with me till I can't even remember them all. tired I am doing much better than I was this time eight yrs ago. I was seeing specialist, etc., and at one time I was on 4 different types of AD's at once. Can you believe it? No wonder I was messed up! I could barely function, and had a very high stressed job, on top of all that mess. Then other things started happening and everything just intensified in my life. I felt so dead and empty that I wondered if i was alive at times.

The point I wanted to make, by telling you all of that about myself, is that I still had free will. My body was messed up, I was deeply depressed, I was stressed to the gills, but I knew right from wrong! I was as honest as they come, but then I cheated on the man who loved me the most. Was I in a fog? Oh yes, indeed! And although I can sympathsize with your W's hormone imbalance, I am here to tell you that she cannot use it as her excuse.

It would be easy to blame those choices on mental/emotional issues, or other health problems. However, I see that as taking the easy way out..........for me, anyway. So, I just wanted to tell you that b/c those issues do affect us a great deal, but as long as we are in our right mind, we still make choices to do what we do. I cannot say I didn't know what I was doing. I knew.......and i knew it was wrong.


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Thanks! I'll take a Starsky endorsement any day


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Originally Posted By: Rzrback
Thanks! I'll take a Starsky endorsement any day


Well it's not exactly the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, lol. More like a good Yelp review for a decent woodfired pizza and microbrew joint. smirk


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Thanks guys I really appreciate the support and insight.
It would be easy to weather all this if the lies and deceptive behavior would just completely stop and and have a moment of clarity and honesty.

Its the mixed signals that get confusing, almost a hybrid of partial truth and effort.

I guess this board is full of Wives and husbands giving mixed signals.

Based on her actions would it be more likely that she has a hormone imbalance or is grieving from loss of the OM and the fantasy of the love that they had?


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Originally Posted By: Hurt06


Based on her actions would it be more likely that she has a hormone imbalance or is grieving from loss of the OM and the fantasy of the love that they had?



In decreasing order of likelihood, I'd say:

1. She's still in contact with OM, and is lying to you about it;

2. She's cut off contact with OM, and is in withdrawal and "grieving" the end of the relationship;

3. She has a hormone imbalance.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Quote:
Based on her actions would it be more likely that she has a hormone imbalance or is grieving from loss of the OM and the fantasy of the love that they had?


Did you even read my last post?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
Based on her actions would it be more likely that she has a hormone imbalance or is grieving from loss of the OM and the fantasy of the love that they had?


Did you even read my last post?



Sandi

Yes, I did read your post and thank you so much for sharing such personal insight!

I know that if it IS the hormone imbalance its still no excuse.

Its the lying that gets under my skin.

There are so many ways she could still be in contact with the OM for all I know she has another prepaid cell somewhere. After all, she hid the other cell right under my nose for months and lied about ever having it. The ONLY reason I found out was a caught her on it in the car by accident. Now that I found the other cell I find chargers all over the house and cars in various places. The OM was refilling it for her so I would not see the money spent on the refill. Then theres Whatapp, FaceBook and a bazillion other ways to communicate. I had already found fake Skype names, alternate email accounts exc, all this could still be going on in other forms. Since she has an amazing history of lying extensively about it she has no credibility in anything she says.

So there is no way for me to positively confirm that she has stopped the relationship. I can only go on her word and her actions. We already know that we believe nothing she says and only half what she does. So that leaves me with a half hearted effort at best.

I guess this has actually helped me to realize that she is not in fact trying to reconcile and is most likely still talking or seeing the OM and a the very least grieving for the lost love that she so clearly communicated to him. She does disappear and claims her cell phone died a lot. The OM lives out of State but has visited here often and for all I know still does.

What do you guys think?


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Does anyone have experience with this?

Am I creating problems within the reconciliation process?

Anytime there is unaccounted for time during the day...or anytime my wife starts acting nervous by talking a lot to talking or to quickly which in the past has indicated she is lying or covering something I become very suspicious that she has had contact or has seen the OM.

This usually happens after her cell phone has died or some other random excuse and cannot be reached. Things just do not seem to "add up"

I am puzzled by all this, I am moving on with GAL but cannot help but hope that there is some hope for us.

any insight or experience? I do not let her know I am suspicious!

Last edited by Hurt06; 02/25/15 10:04 PM.

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Yes, sadly. Most people here on the board have experienced this (from one side of the fence or the other).

Before I comment any further, I need to understand about you finding these cell phones. Was this after she claimed she ended the A?


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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Yes, sadly. Most people here on the board have experienced this (from one side of the fence or the other).

Before I comment any further, I need to understand about you finding these cell phones. Was this after she claimed she ended the A?



Sandi

Here is the readers digest version.

Back in Sep she said she wanted a separation to figure out what she wanted and was a WAW because I was not meeting her needs...we start counseling....I had no idea about her affair and she hides it from counselor and counselor buys her story hook line and sinker....she blames me for everything.....in Oct I discovered OM had been visiting her in our home and she is having affair that goes back to May....I asked her to stop seeing him.....she refused to stop talking to him and claimed she was emotionally involved but thats all and just talking because she is lonely....thanksgiving rolls around and we are arguing about kids......I catch her on other cell in car.....she says its an iPod and starts covering....huge argument and lots of emotional trama.....we decide to spend thanksgiving at her grandmothers with kids together and "work on things"....on the way to thanksgiving she sneaks into store and purchases another pre-paid phone....which I catch her with....she denies everything in front of store clerk and clerk confronts her about the cell phone she purchased is in her purse.....more emotional fall out....I find DB and start GAL and disconnecting.......DEC comes and goes and She says in begging of Jan she wants to work on Marriage and has not talked to OM since Mid DEC....We have seen many different counselors and when we get to the point where the counselors wants us to start re-connecting....she stops going and we find a new one......

I have read more books than I can count....pod casts, therapy, videos, exc.....I personally have had a life changing transformation and learned a ton about myself including how I contributed to the whole thing....in the end it was her choice and that like many things is something out of my control....I still have hope that we can save our marriage but it has taken its toll on me physically and mentally, Spiritually. I pray everyday that I can have the strength to be the best man, husband, and father that I can be today and not dwell on what lies behind me.

Last edited by Hurt06; 02/25/15 10:58 PM.

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It's difficult to know exactly where the MR stands, if you have nothing but her saying she ended the A. I think you need to have a transparency plan.

I told you about the shape I was in when I ended my A. I can relate to how she's acting. However, without you having some means to back up what she claims, she could just as well still be involved with OM. And while I'm thinking about it, let me throw this in, too. After I ended my A, then it was several weeks of him floating around in my head, so it was like keeping the A alive. When I recognized what was happening, then I had to really work hard at kicking him out of my thoughts. It took months for me to work through the ordeal.

Since I was receiving guidance from the DB board, I knew I needed to give my H assurance that I had ended the A, so I made myself transparent. He didn't have the DB tools, so I had to take the initiative. It was for both our sakes that I needed to be transparent. I needed to be accountable. Sure, I had bought the prepaid phone, had access to other computer, etc., but I realized that if I was going to get over the affects of the A, I had to be a open book. If I had not had support from the board, and my H, I seriously doubt I would have made it through.

If your W is not receiving the guidance and support, and is not transparent...........she could have a rebound A, or return to OM, IDK. I think you should approach her with your concerns and talk about a transparency plan. She gives you all passwords and/or account information. She should have one phone, and you can look at it without notice. If she balks on any of these, then there a very good chance the A is has not ended and all this was to throw you off. Btw, her volunteering to show her phone is useless. Of course, if she is not serious about working on the M, she'll find a way to bypass all these obsticals.

If she starts with the old, "You just want to control me", tell her "It's not about control. I am trying to protect our M and give myself assurance you are sticking to your word". If she says here phone/emails are private..........then, enough said right there. You will have your answer. Do not accept any "you will just have to trust me" b/c she can't be trusted at this time. Tell her, "I want nothing more than to be able to trust you again. Considering your recent betrayal, it isn't that simple anymore".


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Originally Posted By: sandi2
It's difficult to know exactly where the MR stands, if you have nothing but her saying she ended the A. I think you need to have a transparency plan.

I told you about the shape I was in when I ended my A. I can relate to how she's acting. However, without you having some means to back up what she claims, she could just as well still be involved with OM. And while I'm thinking about it, let me throw this in, too. After I ended my A, then it was several weeks of him floating around in my head, so it was like keeping the A alive. When I recognized what was happening, then I had to really work hard at kicking him out of my thoughts. It took months for me to work through the ordeal.

Since I was receiving guidance from the DB board, I knew I needed to give my H assurance that I had ended the A, so I made myself transparent. He didn't have the DB tools, so I had to take the initiative. It was for both our sakes that I needed to be transparent. I needed to be accountable. Sure, I had bought the prepaid phone, had access to other computer, etc., but I realized that if I was going to get over the affects of the A, I had to be a open book. If I had not had support from the board, and my H, I seriously doubt I would have made it through.

If your W is not receiving the guidance and support, and is not transparent...........she could have a rebound A, or return to OM, IDK. I think you should approach her with your concerns and talk about a transparency plan. She gives you all passwords and/or account information. She should have one phone, and you can look at it without notice. If she balks on any of these, then there a very good chance the A is has not ended and all this was to throw you off. Btw, her volunteering to show her phone is useless. Of course, if she is not serious about working on the M, she'll find a way to bypass all these obsticals.

If she starts with the old, "You just want to control me", tell her "It's not about control. I am trying to protect our M and give myself assurance you are sticking to your word". If she says here phone/emails are private..........then, enough said right there. You will have your answer. Do not accept any "you will just have to trust me" b/c she can't be trusted at this time. Tell her, "I want nothing more than to be able to trust you again. Considering your recent betrayal, it isn't that simple anymore".




BINGO.


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Thanks again everyone.....

The Latest today is that she wants more space to be able to find herself again as what we are currently doing is not working.

I already travel out of town and am gone overnight at least 3-4 straight nights ....every week.

How much more space does gal need to get herself together so she can find herself and work on the M?

If she tells me she needs more space and wants me to not come home for a time.....do I give her the space she needs?

Last edited by Hurt06; 02/26/15 08:49 PM.

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In my experience, "I need more space" almost always really means "I need more space in which to conduct my affair, unencumbered."


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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
In my experience, "I need more space" almost always really means "I need more space in which to conduct my affair, unencumbered."


Starsky


Thanks Starsky!

anyone else have input?

I have access to everything I know about...Cell, Email, etc.

Last edited by Hurt06; 02/26/15 09:28 PM.

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I want to believe that she is trying but am very hesitant.

I cannot see why she would need any more space than she already gets due to my job.

She is free to do what ever she wants while I am out of town.


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Originally Posted By: Hurt06


How much more space does gal need to get herself together so she can find herself and work on the M?

If she tells me she needs more space and wants me to not come home for a time.....do I give her the space she needs?


You don't "need space" in order to "work on the marriage." That's BACKWARDS: you two need to be CLOSER TOGETHER to work on the marriage.

Why would YOU be the one to not come home to your own house, when she is the one that has cheated on you multiple times (including carrying on an affair in your own marital home) and repeatedly lied about it?

So the answer to your question is "Hell no."


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Quote:
The Latest today is that she wants more space to be able to find herself again as what we are currently doing is not working.


Every word is script.

Although the H usually hears this statement earlier, it sounds very much like she has not disconnected from OM.

If you decide you want to separate for you to have distance from her, that's one thing. But to think you are giving her space and time to find herself? Please!

She isn't being completely honest with you. I would tell you not to give up your home to stay somewhere else, while she enjoys the comfort of home and continues playing hot & single.


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I didn't catch Starsky's last post, but same answer, so...........


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I guess I am in denial

I think I am loosing my mind, I want so bad to believe her but the facts just don't support what she says.

Is there any possibility that I am looking to hard for something to be wrong?

She constantly says that I will never get over this that she "knows me"

Last edited by Hurt06; 02/26/15 11:32 PM.

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Quote:
She constantly says that I will never get over this that she "knows me"


All script. She is twisting things around. You know yourself better. What do you think?

Denial? Maybe. I know I lost something extremely precious when I had an A. We had complete trust. And b/c my H trusted me so completely, I carried on with some things right under his nose. It would have been obvious to a blind person that something was up.

Ask yourself, why would she say you will never get over this.....when you are the one wanting to save the M, and she's the one saying it isn't working and wants more space?


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How are you doing?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
How are you doing?


We have argued a ton over the last few weeks, almost daily, I'm having trouble using the tools and looking the other direction and acting like the deception doesn't bother me. Her entire life revolves around "half truths" is what her therapist is calling her deception. She appears to be trying but seems half hearted at best and is refusing to go to our current counseler but will go to a new one. I'm thinking we need a female counselor so that she might open up about intimacy as all the counsellors are trying to get us to be intimate to help with reconnecting. She has refused to be intimate and is says things like " if I never had sex again it would be just fine with me ". I explained that I cannot live in a sexless marriage and it's not fair to ask me to do that. I asked how long she expects me to wait for her to figure this out and she set a two week time frame. I really have no idea what to do other than practice the tools and work on GAL. What happens at the end of two weeks when she says the same thing? .... Ideas or thoughts?


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Can any wives check in on the complete loss of all desire to be intimate. To me this just seems very unhealthy for her to be feeling this way?

Please help!


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Ok, update, OM seems to be out of the picture but she appears to be in the middle of a serious midlife crisis? Out of the blue she wants a career after always wanting to be a stay at home mom. She is obsessed with her appearance and is constantly in the mirror picking at her face. Thousands of dollars have been spent on creams and treatments for age spots and wrinkles, she is constantly asking me about her face asking if I see the wrinkles and sagging in her face. She is looking constantly on the internet about how to look younger than she is and how to better her appearance. I think this is all about her poor self image of herself. She is as beautiful as ever but all she sees in herself is aging, wrinkles, and sagging. Does all this sound consistent with a midlife crisis? I am continuing with GAL and working on myself trying my best to sick to the 37 rules. any advice or insight would be great!

She has also agreed to meet with a female counselor. This will be our 4th.

Last edited by Hurt06; 03/29/15 06:18 PM.

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I travel for a living....is it ok to send a text once a day just to say "hope your having a good day" while DBing?

The whole almost silent treatment while I am traveling seems like I don't care.
Usually she will text me first but this week she is not


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Sorry for the multiple questions but I'm trying to dial in on the true problem. My wife started out as a WAW, turned out she was having an A, A is over and now seems to going through a MLC. Obsessed with her looks.... Can anyone chime in and offer some insight into this roller coaster multifaceted issue?


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Hi Hurt - I don't think sending texts like that is a good idea. Her thinking you are moving forwards without her is what you are aiming for. Dropping her little texts confirm that you are thinking of her and don't achieve that aim.

Remember, you have been fired as her spouse. If you were fired from a job, would you hang around in reception, hoping they might offer the job back to you? No way - you'd be out there making plans for the next exciting step in your career...

Every time you feel like texting your W, why not pick someone else to contact and drop them a text to let them know you're thinking about them....


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I'm watching for baby steps.....how will I know when she is more willing to work on reconciling ? She will text me after a few days of me being gone and seems hurt that I have not checked on her.
Example: "I hope your doing good" "how is work going"

I assume these are baby steps that she is wondering what I'm doing.

Comments please


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I haven't caught up on the entire thread, so excuse me if you covered this already. You are aware that once an A is over, it takes time to rebuild the trust AND to get over the A, right?

Her wanting to go to counselling is a sign she isn't done trying. Apathy if the opposite of love and sometimes commitment is all there is for a while.

Maybe step back and take stock of what the situation is. What it is you want. How you see things getting there.

Just a thought.

AJ


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Hurt- have you read Sandi's post on WWs? Specifically the one where she discusses "what must happen prior to a restored M?"

I don't get the feeling from your WW that she is ready for R. I don't see that she has shown remorse for her actions, made any commitments, sought to find your ideas on ways she could regain trust, etc.

I see instead you "looking for signs". That means you are far from detached, and are in a very weak spot, desperately hoping for R. The problems with that is that you give her all of the control, control she will use to continue her WW lifestyle with no consequences.

I hope it works out, and I hope she is sincere. So let's get to it.

Has she apologized for the affair and recommitted to the M?
Has she agreed to do anything and everything she can to prove this to you?
Has she asked you what it would take to work through this, and what you'd need for a better M?

Frankly, has she done ANYTHING besides express some internal conflicts to keep you on the line?

Even if her A is over, if she's not desiring to be intimate with you, who is she dressing up for? Just because she was dumped doesn't mean she's not looking for a replacement, and using you for a plan B until she finds it or even WHILE she finds it.

Just doesn't seem like you're steering the ship, and when you put a WW behind the wheel you're in for a bumpy ride.


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Originally Posted By: Zues126
Hurt- have you read Sandi's post on WWs? Specifically the one where she discusses "what must happen prior to a restored M?"

I don't get the feeling from your WW that she is ready for R. I don't see that she has shown remorse for her actions, made any commitments, sought to find your ideas on ways she could regain trust, etc.

I see instead you "looking for signs". That means you are far from detached, and are in a very weak spot, desperately hoping for R. The problems with that is that you give her all of the control, control she will use to continue her WW lifestyle with no consequences.

I hope it works out, and I hope she is sincere. So let's get to it.

Has she apologized for the affair and recommitted to the M?
Has she agreed to do anything and everything she can to prove this to you?
Has she asked you what it would take to work through this, and what you'd need for a better M?

Frankly, has she done ANYTHING besides express some internal conflicts to keep you on the line?

Even if her A is over, if she's not desiring to be intimate with you, who is she dressing up for? Just because she was dumped doesn't mean she's not looking for a replacement, and using you for a plan B until she finds it or even WHILE she finds it.

Just doesn't seem like you're steering the ship, and when you put a WW behind the wheel you're in for a bumpy ride.



She is not dressing up for anyone and in fact hygiene has gone down, doesn't fix hair or shave exc. mostly sweatpants and t shirts...only recently she got a small job that requires a little clean up....and of course she looks nicer going to work.

Has she apologized for the affair and recommitted to the M? ( Yes, and she has voiced it multiple times and appears to be trying, appears very guilt ridden and has admitted how horrible I im hurting and she can never take it back or that it will be the same between us)
Has she agreed to do anything and everything she can to prove this to you?( she says she is committed and will do whatever it takes, actions have shown slightly different)
Has she asked you what it would take to work through this, and what you'd need for a better M? ( no )


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Thank you for the insight, please keep it coming, it feels great to have some support!

Last edited by Hurt06; 03/30/15 02:42 AM.

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Originally Posted By: AJM
I haven't caught up on the entire thread, so excuse me if you covered this already. You are aware that once an A is over, it takes time to rebuild the trust AND to get over the A, right?

Her wanting to go to counselling is a sign she isn't done trying. Apathy if the opposite of love and sometimes commitment is all there is for a while.

Maybe step back and take stock of what the situation is. What it is you want. How you see things getting there.

Just a thought.

AJ


What kinda time frame are we talking to get over the affair?....she hasn't thrown in the towel despite my occasional weaknesses....Apathy is an excellent description of where she is at. She says she is completely lost and has no idea who she is or how she got where she is and that her brain is all foggy and can't think straight about much of anything. She's showing major signs of depression in my opinion and has extreme hard time making any decisions whatsoever. I think she is afraid of making any decisions because she is afraid she will make another bad choice, yet the tension is so bad in our home it's stressing her out. I am trying to GAL and keep things as peaceful as possible. I think a lot of the tension is self induced by her guilt. She thinks she has physical ailments but the Doctors can't find anything wrong with her. She has tested high in Estrogen and has zero Progesterone, and thyroid levels are off. In addition cortisol levels are super high. There maybe something all of this affecting her ability to think clearly!


thoughts?

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Hurt,

So, I see you are asking all of the questions that I have over the last 7 months. Here's the crux of it, it's not linear. She's still acting on how she feels at the moment. This is still something she needs to work through. For you, the biggest thing is to stay consistent. This is easier said than done and I have struggled with it.

For me, the A never seemed to pan out for WW, it never went public, he never left his GF, but all this time later I see only little signs from WW. I think she's still pursuing him or at least feels like she's still attached to him.IDK, but I can say since Oct. ive had 2 to 3 times I thought she was interested in R just to have her pull way back when it started to get "tough."

It's a roller coaster but hang in there. I see a lot of mind reading and making excuses for her. It's still her journey. SHE needs to make the steps to get back in. You pushing them will not have good outcomes. I know, I struggle just like you.

Appreciate everything, but expect nothing.

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MCS

Thanks for the post. We are still in the same bed but no snuggling. She hugs and will kiss me when I have to leave for work, fixes my plate for dinner etc. it's a complete bag of mixed signals. That's what makes it hard, and I still occasionally catch her lying about stupid stuff. I never say that I already know the truth but I just tuck it into my notes. When someone lies as much as she does it's hard to define where the lies end and the truth begins about anything.

Trust but verify has turned up nothing to indicate that she is still talking to OM. Also got a text from OM's wife that he is very depressed and moping around posting heartbreak c$&p all over his FB. Makes me feel better that the B@stard is feeling pain and has lost his wife in all this. I know this is cold but somehow feels like justice.


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When is it ok of to start reach out to her?


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Quote:
Can any wives check in on the complete loss of all desire to be intimate. To me this just seems very unhealthy for her to be feeling this way?


I want to shake you and tell you to listen! You are getting the vets, those who have experienced this, and even the wife who lost all desire to be intimate!

Yes, I had zero desire to be intimate with my H.

Next, you are going to ask how long was it before we had sex. You are not hearing us. You are jumping around firing questions, which is fine......if you'll hear what we are saying. We can't give you a specific time frame, b/c nobody can.

Quote:
but I'm trying to dial in on the true problem


I disagree. We have told you the true problem, but you won't accept it. You are really trying to dial in on an excuse. You didn't get an excuse from (at least three) vets, so you pass it over and are still looking for a short, time framed, magic answer. Your W turned wayward and had no excuse to do what she did.

Quote:
When is it ok of to start reach out to her?


Reaching out how? With physical affection? Sexual touching? I suggest you do not initiate any sexual touches as long as she's not wanting intimacy.

However, you can start with a few, light non-sexual touches. Keep your hands (or mouth) away from touching her hair, anywhere on her face, ears, neck, hands, boobs, and below the waist, except feet. In other words, don't touch her anywhere unless you would touch your grandma in the same place. And yes, there are other places left to touch a woman's body. smile

If you are referring to reaching out to her in another way, be more specific, please.

And btw, I do not think you should just look away, when you know she is lying. Has she always lied about little things? Why would you tolerate it? Why would you not call her out when she lies to you? If she is not held accountable for what she says and does, then what kind of MR do you expect to have presently, or in the future?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandi so much for the insight

I have not touched her accept when she hugs me before I leave to travel out of town. No sexual contact at all or even hand holding for almost 2 weeks. I have stopped texting her unless she texts me and my texts are brief and upbeat. Just trying to stay consistent as everyone here is recommending and doing my best to follow the 37 rules.

I'm sorry if I seem to be all over the place with my questions but this started as a WAW 7 months ago, looks like a MLC, and has twisted into the affair which I think is over (she says since mid DEC) . I'm in the blender and just trying to put together the pieces to help me understand how I got here so that I never fall into this again.

WW doesn't seem accurate for my sitch as she is still a very loving mother and is doing the best she can with the kids. She has stated that she is trying to figure out how to be in love with me again. However, she also states that the damage she has done she can't see how it will ever get any better and she has no idea how we are going to survive this....she seems very remorseful at times and the guilt seems to be eating at her.

By reaching out to her I mean send her a text and ask "how her day went", or "hope your having a nice day"

Its pointless to leave her a VM as she never picks it up and her VM is full. Its not just me though she does this to everyone.

As for the lies, she has always lied and I have confronted her thousands of times about the little lies or half truths. In my eyes she gives misleading information for some reason and always has. She just continues to makes excuses and says thats "thats not what I said" so she gets confrontational and we end up arguing. She says she is completely stressed out and walking on egg shells because I confront her about the lies even if they are little. I am trying keep our home a place where she feels safe and secure, can be herself, and none confrontational. Hopefully, this will allow her to open up to me and tell me how she really feels without feeling judged or criticized for her mistakes and we can begin to reconnect and communicate at a new level.

She has mentioned separation to relieve the stress but she continues to stay at home.

Yes I get it, this all takes time....7 months seems to me like eternity already.

I do feel like I am disconnecting emotionally and I'm getting better at GAL, Taking care of myself, have become a running manic, eating healthily, getting invisline, and trying to take up new hobbies and enjoying work. I see so many happy couples in the airports and across the country and wonder how in the world did I get to this place in my marriage. I love being married to my wife and really don't want anyone else. I made a covenant with God and her and its just very hard to think that this might be the end.

Any one have any experience with the lying or half-truths? Not just regarding the affair but life in General?


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Sandi

Been reading a lot of your other posts on WW. I'm moving to a better place and have gone through a radical transformation fully accepting my part in our failed Marriage. No matter the outcome I feel that I will make a wonderful husband in the future from all I have learned over the past 7 months and I am learning more everyday. I am still hopeful for MR but this is out of my control as I have done all I can do and still willing to work on it if she's truly committed which at this point it appears she is not. Hence the ( tough love). If she has truly stopped the A and is now in a MLC to find herself again, what is the best approach?

Last edited by Hurt06; 03/31/15 08:00 AM.

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All - I need some help plotting my next steps. Who has similar experience living with someone who is disconnected from the marriage but not taking any active steps to leave and appears to be in an MLC after an affair?

Is it against DBing to ask if she wants to see a MC?

She has agreed to see a new female MC this week.

I don't want to pursue but also don't want to push her away either!

You guys are keeping me in check and holding me accountable and I thank everyone for there help!


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We all have. Have you actually read the books yet?


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Emotion, yet peace.
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Hurt,
I had this experience. After ending her A, my wife went through withdrawal. It was painful for me to have to help her get over her AP, but I had to be her support. Like your wife, my wife flat out told me that she wasn't sure that she would ever be "in love" with me again, and the thought of intimacy with me was repulsive to her (again, hard for me to swallow). One thing that I had going for me was that my wife committed to no contact with the OM and made herself transparent (as Sandy did). She told me that she had to actively push away thoughts of the OM and intentionally think about me and our family and how she should be grateful. Some days she would be in tears missing her old "friendship" with the OM. Those were hard days, with me holding her and comforting her, all the while feeling angry at the universe inside.

In my case, knowing that the A was over- and having his W's email and phone number in case there was a relapse (I had told her of the A), allowed me to work on my marriage full force. I talked to her several times a day, texted with her and we went on dates. I NEVER brought up her A. If you want to reconcile, you must put that behind you. I dated my wife. I asked questions to find out who she was- just like you would on any date. I courted her. Slowly- and I mean slowly- she started coming around. She started to like me again. Then she started to feel moments of deeper feelings (which would come and go). We didn't ML for 6 months. In other words, it took 6 months of me being a great, attentive, exciting husband and companion before my wife wasn't turned off by the thought of S with me (and at the risk of sounding like an egomaniac, I'm a good looking, in shape guy).

Stop looking for quick fixes. I wanted S with my wife (I'm a man!), but I knew that more than S, I wanted to have a new, different, marriage with my W and the 6 months let us get close again. You and your wife will need to get on the same page with your marriage philosophies soon. You will both have to agree that the old M is over, and come up with a plan to create a new, better, marriage where you both meet each other's emotional needs intentionally- every day.

Now you know MY story. Yours will be different, but you have my insight. You have also heard from Sandi, Starsky and others who are trying to get this to sink in your head. Stop repeating your questions trying to get different answers. If you are acting in your M like you post on here, it's not very attractive. I don't say that to hurt your feelings, I just want you to see yourself for a moment so that you can affect change in your life.

If the A is over, and your wife is in withdrawal, then I suggest you follow the path that those of us that have recovered have set before you. You can't be all over the place. Your W is in emotional turmoil- you can't be too. As hard as it is, someone-and that's you- has to be strong and guide the marriage relationship to calm waters.

If your W is still in an A, well, that's different.
-HS

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
We all have. Have you actually read the books yet?


Im re-reading DR for the second time smile


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HS

Thanks for the honest assessment, I just vent on here about all the thoughts running through my mind to help keep a clean head when I am at home.

Thanks everyone for your honesty and helping me to hold it together while she figures this out.


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Ground ZERO....well wife has asked me to move out again.... that she needs space and her health issues are because I am here in our house with our 3 children.

I am holding my ground and explained that while I respect her need for space I will not be moving out of our house and that she must do what ever she feels she needs to do even though this is not what I want. She says that as a gentleman that I need to be the one to leave because the kids have to stay with her and she will not separate from them....I have stuck to the 37 rules and gone exactly by the advice received last week on here.

She wants to take the kids and leave but I am unsure how she intends to pay for her own place. She has a 10 an hour job and works 20 hours per week. The numbers are just not there to support her decision. Of course I have not said a word about the monetary issues she doesn't seem to even acknowledge.

Any advice?


Last edited by Hurt06; 04/03/15 04:54 PM.

M44 H37
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Hold your ground. She needs to feel the consequences of her actions. In my book, this confirms the OM is still very much in the picture. Before my wife finally broke off contact(and sent a letter stating so to the OM) she lied for two years about having contact with the OM. Each time I'd catch her in the lie she'd just get better at hiding it.

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How does leaving your children make you a gentleman? Don't leave.

But be prepared for her to make things awful for you. Be strong for your kids. ..


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Hurt

Let me say that the affair is just one symptom of this whole mess, just ending the affair does not mean that she is whole and healed.

Nor are you whole and healed.

So our objective is for you to get whole and healed and then just maybe your marriage can be restored.


DON'T LEAVE THE HOUSE, or MBR, but please give her more space
and get on living your life.


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Tell her that while you understand her issues as they are concerned with the OM, that you are not leaving and neither are the kids. Tell her that she is the one that has been going with with OM and if she's unhappy it's not on you. Put your foot down.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
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Thanks for the support....I'm holding steady....It actually feels pretty good.


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Update: Wife has moved out of MBR into D13 bedroom on blow up matrice in floor. In-laws are coming tomorrow for spring break and want to talk to us both. W had said that she had told them everything which has turned out to be a half lie at best.

I have always been very close to in-laws, closer even than my own parents. Turns out that she had not exposed the fact that she had allowed the OM into our new home. What exactly happened while he was here is still unknown as the lying continues (I have assumed the worst) . In-laws wanted to know why I am not the gentleman and will not give her space (move out) for her health and there stating that her health is more important than our marriage. Had to explain politely to her father that I will no longer be taken advantage of and I will not be leaving the new home that I just purchased for my wife and kids last SEPT. Not sure if this was against the rules or not but it's just what transpired in our conversation. I gave her this space last OCT when she claimed only to be a WAW and she had the man in our house at that time.

I am holding steady with the 37 rules, DBing, GAL, and standing up for myself. Really enjoying time with kids. Took them to Movies this afternoon but the W decided she wanted to go at the last minute. I remained neutral and held steady with polite but distant and moving on.

MC texted this evening and has an opening in the AM for us or individually, I offered wife the time slot and she waffled so I took it. Now she is saying she is only available for 30 mins to see the MC and I guess might show up.

To be honest I am just trying to remain neutral and distant moving on with my life. Outside influences are creeping in with in the In-laws envolved and MC offering last minute counseling to prevent the separation.

As someone stated earlier things are about to get worse I'm afraid. Sure would be nice just to have some peace.

Anyone have experience or insight with something like this?

Any advice on how to deal with the In-laws talk?


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In law talk- be clear about what you are trying to accomplish. You aren't going to win them to your side. You aren't going to get them to agree with your views. That's NOT going to happen.

All you can do is have a handful of bullet points so like it or not they can understand what you are doing and why.

What are you doing? What can they expect to see you do? Why? Try writing it out in a few bullets for the forum. We'll give feedback. Then, during your conversation just list your bullets, validate their feelings, and be prepared with conversation enders such as "it sounds like we understand each other's point of view and simply feel differently. There doesn't seem to be a point to rehashing this further. I will say I appreciate you having this conversation and hope you know I have a lot of respect for the way you've handled this. Please take care".

Or whatever that looks like. It's late, but that's what I'd do. Practice.


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Heres what I came up with, Her father said over the phone that he would not leave the house either but that view may change, as its been several days. I really don't see any reason to talk to the in-laws about her asking me to move out but I think it was the Moms idea. Both her parents are saying "you guys tried to work it out and its not working" She claims that she has told them everything but very clearly she has not as the father was blown away when he found out that the OM has been in our new house and I will not be leaving to facilitate what may or may not still be going on.

here are the three bullet points.


-What are you doing? "I want to save my marriage but I cannot do that by myself. I want my wife to be healthily and happy and will do anything I can to help her through this but I will not be leaving our home. If she needs space to find herself, I respect her decision and although I do not want or agree with her leaving our home, she is free to do what ever she feels she must do. We cannot afford 2 house holds, the money is simply not there so what ever she decides to do she will need to pay for herself."

-What can they expect to see you do? "Be consistent, provide a safe place to live for her and children, continue to see IC and MC, Continue to work at my job, Be a good father, Be a good provider, Be a good Christain husband, and continue working on myself."

-Why? "There are boundaries that cannot be violated any longer. Its not good for me, the children, or our marriage. It is my hope that she will seek IC and MC and save our marriage."

Last edited by Hurt06; 04/06/15 08:21 AM.

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bump, any last minute pointers ?

MC today validated everything you guys are saying. I went by myself as W could not attend.

Last edited by Hurt06; 04/06/15 10:59 PM.

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I think that looks reasonable.

If they made a comment about how the marriage is over and why can't you accept that I personally would have to address that by saying something like:

My beliefs are that when you got married it was for better or worse. I see my wife is going through a difficult time and has made choices that are impacting our marriage. And yes, she has the freedom end it entirely. But while I can't deny my role in the breakdown of our marriage, I am not going to abandon it voluntarily, nor willingly participate in the destruction of our family.


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She wants to take the kids and move out?

How can I stop her from taking the kids?


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Hurt, I'm not up to date on your sitch - but have you seen a L already? If not, I would consult with one asap. I'm afraid I don't know how things like this work, but I hope you manage to agree an arrangement that is in the best interests of you all.

((Hurt))


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Hurt,

I just read up on your sitch. I am going through very similar. I am in the same house and BR with my WAW. She is still in contact with OM. I know exactly the hard time you are having.

I agree with Toots. You must get a L ASAP. You need to know your rights. In the meantime, there is a very short book about the 10 most common mistakes men make in a D. Even if you are not planning on D, you should read it pronto. It is possible that your W will serve you D papers in the next while and you need to be prepared. A few short days ago you were still focused on R, but you cannot deny that your W is taking steps to separate. She seems to be positioning herself to extricate herself from your M. examples: trying to recruit your ILs, asking you to leave, etc... Denial is a recipe for disaster. You need to detach and look out for your best interests.

I think this has been drilled into you already, but just in case: DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. On a related matter, do you really thing your W has the wherewithal to leave with the children? How does she propose to do it? What will she tell the children? It seems like an immature plan. I would keep communication abut these things to a minimum. Right now, the less you say, the better. Still, you need to know your rights.

best of luck,

RAI


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Update

Thanks to everyone for your kind words and support. The big talk came today and several more lies were uncovered as well as the fact that W spoke to attorney last week. Claiming that it was only a consult and no money was exchanged. I quick phone call confirmed that to be a lie and money was paid and I am on the conflict list.

In-laws, just as predicted were telling me that I have to move out because its easier for me as a single man instead of her with the children which she refuses to leave. Separation seems know unavoidable and R is completely the last thing on the three of there minds as her health issues are all my fault and I am the problem. There solution is for immediate separation whether its the W moving out with the children and me funding her apartment and expenses in hopes that she is able the physically get better and then after some undefined period of time she may or may not want to work on R. Or, I move out. If this is not something I am willing to do then she will be filing for divorce.

In all Honesty I am speechless for them to think that I would agree to any of the "terms" that were put on the table. I simply stated that I respect the W's decision that she needs space and she is free to do what she needs to do for herself. I have sought much counsel from my therapist, our pastors, previous counselors and and marriage coaches, and other Christain men. I explained to them that not one person thinks that me leaving the house is the answer. And it doesn't feel right in my heart. No Christain men can find any Biblical reason that I need to leave the house and send a message to the children that Dad is living somewhere else. The In-laws and W continued to tell me that my presence in the house is hurting the children and driving the W's health further into dangerous territory. I would just like to also point out that the Doctors cannot find anything wrong with my W. We have had countless tests run, endoscopy's, blood work, etc. The tests all comeback neg. There are some hormonal issues but she refuses to stick with any medical advice or medicine to get better. We ended the conversation with I respect everyones views and all I want is whats best for our family.

Later in the afternoon her dad and I were having a beer and the subject came up about the lies that were told during out discussion and that she had admitted the A but none of the pertinent details, Such as the last time I gave her space the man came into my house and she dated him the whole time we were separated when she was supposed to be seeing the MC and IC weekly. He almost fell out of his chair with a deer in the headlights look. He said that changes a lot and wants me to disclose all the details to her mom in front of W to get everything out on the table to be able to see what needs to be done.

I think that part of the conversation was against DB'ing but we just stubbled into it. I am very close to her Dad and we are in alot of ways much closer than my real dad. He considers me one of his own. This has been very hard on the whole family.

I started making calls today and will have a L hopefully by the end of tomorrow.
Its sad to say that I am forced to move into protection mode but as everyone is telling me. "she has checked out"

I'll stick to DB'ing and while continue to hold to my beliefs and the Lord.


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I don't see anything wrong in your conversation with your FIL. Your wife's health issues are likely due to the turmoil within her, not something that you are causing. She is ripping her family in two and the guilt must be killing her.

You have to be the strong one for your family, your wife is letting emotion dictate her path right now, and our emotions are never a good guide. Once the affair bubble bursts, your wife will begin to see more clearly, and logically.

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More conflict.....in-laws have moved into "you don't love her or the kids" mode and are furious that I will not leave the home or pay for her to leave the home with the kids. They want me to move out and continue to pay every expense for my W with no timeline and no expectation that the marriage will ever be saved. If this is not executed almost immediately W is filing for D and I am choosing to punish my kids by forcing W to file D.

I not really sure who the children are at this point. I have never seen or had any adult talk to me is such a disrespectful way or act more like a child and I am am not talking about my W. I realize that she is upset but this entire sitch is outa control.

I have done a ton of things wrong in my marriage but I do not deserve to be treated or talked to like this. And the weird part is I actually feel terrible. I guess its just hard to see our entire family being tortured by the selfish acts of the W.

I don't have any words......


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Very tough situation with the in-laws Hurt, and I wish I had experience to draw from which could help. Fortunately for me my in-laws have been very kind and supportive through out this process. Now I in no way think they will favor me over her but everything has been good to this point.

That being said, do you know if your in-laws know about your wife's affair? If they do then you can politely suggest if she needs financial help that perhaps he might be the one she seeks it from. Then again, that is my passive aggressive side smile You might just politely disagree with their position and remind them that you are living in the family home and your kids will remain in the family home. If their daughter wants to leave the family or take time out from the family she is free to do so. Or you can just brush it off because ultimately you are not going to convince them of anything.

Hate it for you, and wish you the best...


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Hurt, I'm no vet and maybe wait to hear from one before you do this. But if your in-laws do not know about the A, you may want a short calm statement to tell them.

I'm sorry you feel that way. But W has chosen to become involved with someone else and disprespected the sanctity of our marriage. I am not moving myself or our children out of our family home as a result of her infidelity.


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Any Vets have any thoughts about this sitch?

The in-laws know about the A....not sure they realize the A is with a D attorney


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Originally Posted By: Hurt06
They want me to move out and continue to pay every expense for my W with no timeline and no expectation that the marriage will ever be saved.

Have you spoken to a lawyer?

Any idea what you will be required to pay after a divorce?

I think she should move out!


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Hurt06
They want me to move out and continue to pay every expense for my W with no timeline and no expectation that the marriage will ever be saved.

Have you spoken to a lawyer?

Any idea what you will be required to pay after a divorce?

I think she should move out!


Have you spoken to a lawyer?
Just an initial Consult. I have a good idea on my rights, I do not have to leave our home.

Any idea what you will be required to pay after a divorce?
Yes I have an idea, its not enough for her to stay in our home, her standard of living will take a nosedive and she will loose her health insurance.

I think she should move out!
Yes I agree and all counsel I have sought says the same. The only people saying I should leave are her and her parents.

Last edited by Hurt06; 04/11/15 04:38 PM.

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May I share some unsolicited advice that my lawyer shared with me? From this moment onwards assume every conversation is being recorded and could be used against you. Everything you tell you ILs will make its way back to your W. They will eventually side completely with your W no matter how wrong she is. If I were you I would limit or discontinue all conversation with your ILs. Things are heating up rapidly and you don't want to say something incriminating.

My two cents.

RAI

PS. As previously suggested, consider reading The 10 stupidest mistakes men make in divorce (I may have gotten the title slightly wrong). It is a quick but high yield read.


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Update:

Thanks for all the insight.

W has moved into full "I hate you" mode. Only looks at me with a scowl and is furious with anything I say which has been limited to strictly conversation regarding the kids. Such as, "I would like to take the kids to the park this afternoon".
She is questioning everything I do with the kids and stomps around the house in a constant state of anger.

This is the hardest thing I have ever done having to stand by helplessly and watch her self destruct.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

All of this started after she talked to an attorney.


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Anger that's perpetual is often a means of control. I'd guess during your M when she got angry you'd change your behavior to try to make her feel happy again.

Well, now she's looking at her plans to the future and after speaking to a L she realizes she needs you to agree to her terms for her to get what she wants. Some would think that she would be treating you nicely then to keep it friendly, but she is doing what always worked before: putting you in your place.

Yes, many of us have been here before. I've gone through 4 spew jackets since BD. The trick is not to let it impact your behavior or you'll only encourage it.

I would set strong, strong, strong boundaries.

Also- I would take STRONG independent action with your own lawyer. Do not be passive. Not only do you protect yourself, but you don't want to appear to be clinging to the M with both hands kicking and screaming. The message should be "No, W, this is not what I wanted for our family. But I accept you've made this decision. You can leave if you'd like, however I am not going to stand by and be disrespected or taken advantage of legally however."


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Originally Posted By: Zues126
Anger that's perpetual is often a means of control. I'd guess during your M when she got angry you'd change your behavior to try to make her feel happy again.

Well, now she's looking at her plans to the future and after speaking to a L she realizes she needs you to agree to her terms for her to get what she wants. Some would think that she would be treating you nicely then to keep it friendly, but she is doing what always worked before: putting you in your place.

Yes, many of us have been here before. I've gone through 4 spew jackets since BD. The trick is not to let it impact your behavior or you'll only encourage it.

I would set strong, strong, strong boundaries.

Also- I would take STRONG independent action with your own lawyer. Do not be passive. Not only do you protect yourself, but you don't want to appear to be clinging to the M with both hands kicking and screaming. The message should be "No, W, this is not what I wanted for our family. But I accept you've made this decision. You can leave if you'd like, however I am not going to stand by and be disrespected or taken advantage of legally however."


Zues126...WOW!!!!!

"Anger that's perpetual is often a means of control. I'd guess during your M when she got angry you'd change your behavior to try to make her feel happy again."

The light bulb just went off in my head! Things just became very clear!....you nailed it....thats exactly whats been going on in my M for the past 12 years....holy cow do I feel like an idiot!

"Yes, many of us have been here before. I've gone through 4 spew jackets since BD. The trick is not to let it impact your behavior or you'll only encourage it."

What is a "spew jacket"?.....this anger temper tamp-trim behavior? wonder how long this will go on for?...not that it matters as I am moving forward anyways....with or without her....Im getting better and stronger everyday....still hurts...just a little less each day....Im starting to see a bright future and a much better man and father than I was 8 months ago.

Sadly, I have a really good L standing by... she says I am naive and need to file for D immediately to protect myself. Again, D is not what I want for me and the kids so in some ways I am taking a chance by not filing first....I am trying to do everything possible to prevent D without giving up my core values and solid boundaries I have set in place. I will no longer be taken advantage of....legally or emotionally.


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Ha, a spew jacket is what us LBS's wear so the spew that rains out of our WAS's mouth just washes off us.

I know what you mean. For a long time our self worth has been tied to the mood of our partner, it can be strange to stand up and not cringe when she stomps her feet.

Note- I am NOT casting off women and saying "we're better off without them". Just not healthy to give up ourselves.

Also- I am NOT point all fingers at your WAS. She was just doing one part of the dance. Had you danced differently, she might have as well. She might've been frustrated you didn't take control of your emotions in the M and was hoping you would.

As for D, definitely a funny topic. I just posted on my thread about how much I believe in M...yet I am filing for D. I originally said I never would, but some posts of Sandi's changed my mind. I realized I was not filing for the "wrong" reasons. I talked to my DB coach, my IC, my mom/dad...unanimously I was told it was time. And that my WAW becoming 100% accountable for her own life was the best thing for everyone.

I'm not urging you to file, but I will say there is a lot to sort through there as to when it makes sense. I'm tired, maybe if you want to talk through this subject I can share more tomorrow. Goodnight and take care.


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Originally Posted By: Zues126

I'm not urging you to file, but I will say there is a lot to sort through there as to when it makes sense. I'm tired, maybe if you want to talk through this subject I can share more tomorrow. Goodnight and take care.


I'm all ears at this point


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I just can't bring myself to file for D.

She has basically, refused to talk about kids and finances.

Anyone else had the WS shut down all communication like this?

Anger is about all she currently has for me yet she still has no income and depends on me for financial support.

Last edited by Hurt06; 06/15/15 04:36 PM.

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Thanks for posting again. Your sig says she is a SAHM. Is she not working yet?

I see several alternatives. They are about boundaries, not control/ultimatums, so you might want to brush up on that thread again.

One is to file D.

Another is to file legal separation. In my case we didn't 'file' it, I just had her served which protected me in some financial ways and time stamped it (so if it DID need to be filed it could be put on the record).

Finally, you could just set firmer boundaries. Do you have separate checking accounts? Are you paying 100% of her bills (including the cell phone she uses to arrange her liasons)? Do you have a schedule for when you're going to spend time with the kids and when you're going to be out?

I get it, you don't want to escalate things emotionally. That's GOOD. But neither do you want to be a rug, or enable her behavior (which is unattractive and ineffective).

I think it makes sense to incrementally increase your boundaries. Maybe start by separating finances. Maybe a separation at some point to protect yourself if she wracks up 20K in credit card debt. Etc.

Why don't you list the things you're doing that are enabling her today, and then we can start discussing ways you can draw healthy boundaries without jumping to D tomorrow.


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Hurt, I just read through your thread. I second separating any financial means she can run up debt through. Your L should be able to advice you how. Basically take her off any joint credit cards and similar.

I have to comment on the illness. How is a person with illness supposed to get better, living alone as a single mother? That's completely ridiculous.

And - you say her hormone levels and her thyroid levels are off - but that the doctors can't find anything wrong. As a long-time thyroid disease sufferer: Thyroid disease is something very wrong! This illness is SO under-estimated by the mainstream medical community. Thyroid hormones influence every single cell in the body, and can cause a multitude of serious symptoms, including death. Both hypo- and hyperthyroidism can kill you if you don't treat it.

Her cortisol levels are high? Means she is really stressed, her adrenals are working overtime. That will make her angry and exhausted. With the other hormones being off, she may feel like she is mentally drowning. She may have anxiety, depression, brain fog, anger/rage, sleep problems, in addition to lots and lots of physical symptoms, and mood swings like a rollercoaster. Your presence may simply feel overwhelming to her. She may not have the emotional stamina to deal with the guilt.

No, it doesn't mean she can excuse lies and deceit and affairs, like Sandi said - but it is not unusual that people with thyroid disease first get diagnosed in a mental hospital. It needs to be addressed. Has she seen an endocrinologist or experienced OB-GYN?


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Originally Posted By: Zues126
Thanks for posting again. Your sig says she is a SAHM. Is she not working yet?

I see several alternatives. They are about boundaries, not control/ultimatums, so you might want to brush up on that thread again.

One is to file D.

Another is to file legal separation. In my case we didn't 'file' it, I just had her served which protected me in some financial ways and time stamped it (so if it DID need to be filed it could be put on the record).

Finally, you could just set firmer boundaries. Do you have separate checking accounts? Are you paying 100% of her bills (including the cell phone she uses to arrange her liasons)? Do you have a schedule for when you're going to spend time with the kids and when you're going to be out?

I get it, you don't want to escalate things emotionally. That's GOOD. But neither do you want to be a rug, or enable her behavior (which is unattractive and ineffective).

I think it makes sense to incrementally increase your boundaries. Maybe start by separating finances. Maybe a separation at some point to protect yourself if she wracks up 20K in credit card debt. Etc.

Why don't you list the things you're doing that are enabling her today, and then we can start discussing ways you can draw healthy boundaries without jumping to D tomorrow.


Thanks for the help guys.


Yes she is SAHM. She had a small part time job (15 hours a week) but has been laid off. She is back to no job and looking.

The state laws do not allow Legal Separation so only option is D.

I have separated all finances as she keeps taking trips to see her family that we cannot afford and overdrawing our account.

I am the sole provider and the only one bringing in any finances and I pay for everything, including her cell phone, internet, etc.

I have given her grocery money and one tank of gas weekly because thats all we can afford. Yes this is controlling but if I allow her free access to our income then we don't have enough money to pay the bills. I am at a loss as what to do financially. I do not want to be a rug and I am very tired of being lied to and taken advantage of.

She takes no part in paying any bills or finances. I have tried to give some of these to her but she refuses to take responsibility.

Of Course she says I am controlling but I really have no other choice.

I am open to any and all suggestions.


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Originally Posted By: Painter
Hurt, I just read through your thread. I second separating any financial means she can run up debt through. Your L should be able to advice you how. Basically take her off any joint credit cards and similar.

I have to comment on the illness. How is a person with illness supposed to get better, living alone as a single mother? That's completely ridiculous.

And - you say her hormone levels and her thyroid levels are off - but that the doctors can't find anything wrong. As a long-time thyroid disease sufferer: Thyroid disease is something very wrong! This illness is SO under-estimated by the mainstream medical community. Thyroid hormones influence every single cell in the body, and can cause a multitude of serious symptoms, including death. Both hypo- and hyperthyroidism can kill you if you don't treat it.

Her cortisol levels are high? Means she is really stressed, her adrenals are working overtime. That will make her angry and exhausted. With the other hormones being off, she may feel like she is mentally drowning. She may have anxiety, depression, brain fog, anger/rage, sleep problems, in addition to lots and lots of physical symptoms, and mood swings like a rollercoaster. Your presence may simply feel overwhelming to her. She may not have the emotional stamina to deal with the guilt.

No, it doesn't mean she can excuse lies and deceit and affairs, like Sandi said - but it is not unusual that people with thyroid disease first get diagnosed in a mental hospital. It needs to be addressed. Has she seen an endocrinologist or experienced OB-GYN?


Ok her blood work shows she is slightly under active thyroid and she is taking nature thyroid to compensate but is not like its way off the chart and I'm not seeing ANY improvement in anything. She is seeing a new homeopathic Doc and is taking the blood work and specific times of the month to try and narrow things down but its guesswork at best. Yes, She has seen multiple endocrinologist and OBGYN's

I am living with a crazy person and having my own issues dealing with the fallout of all this which may turn out to be more "nothing" and just simple guilt eating her from the inside.

One more question, How am i supposed to go "Dark" when W is completely dependent on me for everything and we have three small kids in the home.

Trying to GAL where I can and keep everything as stable as possible for the kids.

This is really tough!

Sorry, feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Last edited by Hurt06; 06/16/15 03:49 AM.

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Paging vets: Starsky, Wonka, Sandi!

I don't understand how this can be allowed to continue. She's been in an A for over a year, isn't working, and is using your money to put fuel in the car she's driving to OM, and using your money to pay for a cell phone that she's using to sext back and forth?

See, whether or not your D she is no longer behaving like your W. She has essentially told you it's over, and she's no longer M with you.

I just posted this earlier today: If you liked your boss, but then they fired you, and then later told you that production was down...would you pitch in on the weekends for free because you cared about them, they are hurting, and you can help?

Of course not. You'd care enough that you'd be willing to entertain taking the job again if you knew that you could rectify the historic issues so it could be mutually beneficial. This analogy is good for their 'temperature checks' and 'cake eating' too, because how many times do they say things to lead LBS's to believe they are reconsidering in an attempt to manipulate? Kind of like an employer saying "come work for free for a while and maybe we'll put you back on the payroll if you do a good job". I can't type the kind of response that deserves!

Personally I think I'd file. It's a process anyway. If it shakes her up you can reevaluate but don't count on it. If it doesn't, do you want to stay in an open M? In some ways I think not filing just shows your willing to.

I'd also get my own account, and only provide for the kids. You don't need to support her. She can figure that out now. Yes, she'll spew, as will her family and everyone on 'her side'.

Oh- I'd get a DB coach for SURE. I never feel bad about enforcing my boundaries because I am operating on the advice of a DB coach, IC, and L. It helps me know I'm not reacting on emotions, but am following the lead of some experts.

But that's just for me. It's up to you to decide when.


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It doesn't have to be way off the charts. I was bedridden when I was barely outside the normal range. It really can vary a lot from person to person how severe the symptoms are, and how they manifest.

It sounds like she is getting great care, though, so hopefully they will be able to find out more through further testing. Some cases of thyroid disease is caused by a small tumor in the pituitary gland and don't respond to treatment the same way.

You are certainly dealing with a difficult situation!
I can only suggest that you sit down and think about different scenarios for the future - what you would do and how you would handle things, what you would want and what you would not accept. That way you can start working towards goals for yourself.


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How am I supposed to "Go Dark" in this situation?

nothing is off the table. The only exception is I will not file for D.


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You just take care of your kids. Let the OM take care of her. Talk to a lawyer to protect yourself.


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Ok, blood work all came back normal "hormones"
no periopause, or menopause symptoms in blood work.

Thyroid Doc adjusting Nature thyroid buts it's not that far off?

There seems to be no medical reason she is acting the way she is.

Maybe some of the veterans that are familiar with possible
thyroid issues could offer some insight?.....Sandi2.....any ideas?

Last edited by Hurt06; 06/23/15 06:37 PM.

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Hurt, I know it would be easier if there was a simple fix (such as a medical condition that gets treated and goes away), but that's unlikely. And if that happens you can deal with that then.

Instead I'd recommend dealing with the here and now, the reality. Regardless of motive, she is acting in ways that you must react to protect yourself. It's not her motive that's the issue, it's the behavior. And the motive doesn't change the behavior. So it really shouldn't change your response.

Bond said it best in his one sentence to the point way. Let her go on her journey, you just take care of you.


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RGR that!

I am trying to wrap my head around letting go....its getting better a little at a time...kinda scarey as I am less and less distraught as I disconnect emotionally....and i cant help but wonder at what point there is no turning back.....even if she decides to come back....at some point my heart will shut down and im not sure she will be welcome back....if that makes sense....i am already trying to accept what life will be like with someone that can apreciate me.


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I don't think you'll know until when, if ever, that door opens.

If it was today, maybe. If it was in 10 years and you were 5 years remarried, maybe not. Life is strange, there are no clear sign posts. PARTICULARLY NOT your emotions at this moment.

The sad fact is us LBS's tend to look at when WE'D be closed to R as the true end of the M...but the reality is that the end of the M has already occurred, and that's just difficult to accept.

But it's not all bad in the universe. Puppies are cute.


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WAW has been arrested for domestic battery.

What do I do?


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Originally Posted By: Hurt06
WAW has been arrested for domestic battery.

What do I do?

Start a new thread and give us more specifics


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 72
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Hurt06 Offline OP
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Posts: 72
Wife filed for divorce yesterday. Not a very good day.

Any advice?


M44 H37
D13 S8 S6
Married 14
W is stay at home mom
ILYBNIWY:9-28-14
A started 04/2014
OM confirm 11/24/2014
Admit PA 01/05/2015
09/11/2015 W file for D and wants the moon
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
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job Offline
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Likes: 112
Please start a new thread and we'll pick up on your question on the new one. Okay?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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