Yesterday, W finished up her homework at her mom's house, then finally came home. She did call me earlier in the day to let me know what her plan was. I called her back later to confirm.
When she got home with S3, he wanted to go to the basement to watch TV, while W wanted to watch TV upstairs. I went down with S3 to hang out with him as I had not gotten to do so all day. During this time, I heard W upstairs cleaning, something I am not accustomed to. I brought S3 upstairs for him to get a bath, and a lot had been done.
Turned on the show I wanted to watch. W brought a snack out to me with a big smile and sat right next to me, almost expecting cuddling closeness or something. I politely denied the snack and just watched TV.
Finished S3's bath, he snuggled with W, and then went to bed. We watched TV together. I allowed her to initiate conversations, kept my talk short and polite. When what we were watching was over, I went to the bedroom, took her pillows out and put them on the couch. No word from her, she slept there. S3 did get up in the middle of the night, asked me where mommy was, I told him, he went and slept with her the remainder of the night on the couch.
W was supposed to get up early this morning, go to a meeting, then come over to my family's house for Easter. I heard her alarm, but she did not get up. I got up when her meeting was supposed to start. She was still sleeping, I just took a shower. I got ready, then went to W and S3 on couch, "Come on buddy, let's get up and go to grandma and grandpa's." There was only about 15 minutes to get him ready to go (I did get up a little later than anticipated). W helped get S3 ready, when we were leaving, W claimed "I really did want to go." I respond, "We can wait if you want to get ready and go." She said, "I cannot get ready in time and I have a headache." She did seem a bit down with that. I can understand that. I am not her alarm clock though.
I decided it was better she did not go. I put my ring back on, so people would not ask questions about it, and when asked where W was, I just said she was not feeling well. We had a great time at my parents house.
Got home, ring back off, W was napping, S3 brought her some flowers he had picked for her. That cheered her up some. We all went outside. W wanted to know how things went, I told her what all S3 got to do. Left it at that. She went back in, actually did the laundry. From that day. First time I had seen that in a long time.
We were planning to take S3 to the park. W asked him what car he wanted to take. He responded "Daddy's car!" This is actually normal. "What? You do not trust mommy's driving?" I come through. "OK, let's got then!" I get S3 situated in the car. W is not coming out. I go back in and ask her what she is doing. Her response is, "What's the point?" I could tell she felt pretty bad, so I wait a little to see if she would say anything else. Nothing. "OK, we will be home later."
S3 and I have a fun time at the park, come home. W is on the phone speaking to her mom, very teary eyed. I over hear, "I just do not even want to talk to him anymore (referring to me)." When she gets off the phone with her, I immediately get a phone call. It was MIL. I did not answer. W took S3 to give him a bath. I went outside to call MIL back.
MIL mentioned she was told not to talk to me by W. She told me that W was hoping to work something out with me regarding getting the internet back. I told MIL that she can find other routes as I am not going to allow family money to be used to conduct an affair. How W was splicing her talking to OM with the computer at home, coinciding and under the guise of doing homework. She understood my position. She mentioned that when she got back on her computer, that W's FB account was still up and she saw some really disturbing posts by OM (political - something that W would never be OK with either). MIL did not like it one bit. The biggest reason MIL called me, was to mention that W claimed "I just feel like I want to die." I mentioned that I will not allow this to happen, and I will speak with her. I told MIL that it was all part of the script to help ease her mind. I am taking this seriously though. Going to stay up and make sure she does not do anything. She really does need some more IC.
I did go to W and ask her what was wrong. She claimed "Everything I do, I end up hurting someone. All of my actions are just going to ruin S3's life. I just went the route that I felt would hurt people the least amount, by trying to cover it up, omitting the truth. I just feel like I want to die. What am I good for?" I did validate, told her that she was an excellent mother, and asked if I should be concerned with her thoughts. She responded "it would be pointless doing that." I still feel like I need to stay up, just to make sure.
This entire time, I did not let anything get to me. Stayed pretty upbeat. The weird thing about all of this, she has continued to wear her rings.
I stayed up a little while to make sure W did not do anything to herself. She woke up and asked what I was doing. I said "It was said, I am making sure you are not going to do anything to yourself." She paused, and responded, "Thank you for the concern, but I am fine. I just want to sleep." "I am just making sure." I stayed up a little longer somewhere else. Checked on her a little later, then went to bed.
I called MIL this morning to let her know W was fine. She wanted to talk a little more. She let me know that everyone was upset with W over the weekend. That it will never work out with this OM from her standpoint and the rest of W's family's standpoint (no support from them and likely NC as well - they have been through this before). She said that W was just not thinking things through at all. I agreed with everything she said. Mentioned that W is functioning solely on emotions and not logic (actually something she said to OM too "I do not want to live emotionless anymore").
MIL did have one request, work something out with the internet so she can do homework at home so she can actually get it done and does not fail her classes (this would be absolutely devastating to her). "If this stuff continues after the semester, then go back to it." I told her I turned it back on last night for her on the matter. This morning, I asked W what her plans were to work out where S3 would be. On leaving, I told her "I turned the internet back on the computer for you to do homework here, but please do not use it for anything I would not appreciate, because I will know."
I feel like I really should stop talking to MIL about these things, but she does bring them up. She was doing a good job staying out of it for awhile, but she really does want to know more and the truth. I respect her too much to with-hold that I guess.
Remind her that you won't fail again to protect her. That her relationship with OM is just another form of escape and addiction. That you have no intention of being "controlling" but rather you are exercising "protection". OM is unhealthy for and destructive to her...just as alcohol is/was. You don't quit alcohol by hanging out in bars and others drinking and you don't quit OM by continuing to chat and be friendly with him.
This makes sense, and I will. That was one thing I was thinking and trying to allude to when staying up with her last night when she mentioned she wanted to die. She will not want to hear that OM is "unhealthy" and an "addiction," but it is true. She will not have much, if anything, with him.
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
BTW. Turning off the internet is perfectly justifiable in this situation. It's not overly controlling. She is free to walk out the door and speak to OM any way she wants but she's not gonna do it on your dime and in your home.
I agree, and actually MIL is in full agreement, too. One other thing that she mentioned to me, was that both her and W's sister have said "If it is a choice between you and W, we choose you." That was reassuring.
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
For years your wife's primary relationship was alcohol. Getting that under control is a huge accomplishment but very often having to face real relationships as a sober person is difficult without the crutch of alcohol. I am not a fan of co-ed AA meetings. Dangerous places of too much sharing between married persons with opposite sex persons not their spouse.
This is something I have realized, and actually read up on when I was looking at AA spousal support material. I am in full agreement with you on the dangers of co-ed AA meetings, considering I am experiencing it now. They even tell everyone new, up front, to not get involved with the opposite sex given the very open nature of it, and continually tried to warn them. Interesting how the impulsive addictive mind works.
Overall, I have just straight pulled back. Following the DB/sandi's rules. I do read over them at least once a day to keep them fresh.
The best thing that I have done for myself is detach. GAL helped with that substantially. I feel a lot more confident overall, relieved actually. Even happier, for myself mostly.
W seems to be a little confused. Last night, we did hang out with, read to, and put S3 to bed together. I went out to relax and watch TV. She came out and sat next to me, started doing some homework. I wanted to watch the basketball game. She mentioned that she did not really want to watch it, as her team was not in it. At half time, I helped put S3 back to bed (he likes getting up a lot before finally falling asleep). Then I went and got my keys, handed W the remote. W asked, "Where are you going?" I responded, "I want to watch this somewhere else, I will be home later." and walked out the door.
I got back home, W was sitting on the couch with the laptop, getting herself tired to go to sleep. I did a few things in that area, and noticed she was just staring at me. Did not look angry, just staring. I just continued to be busy.
At night, S3 got up and came to sleep in bed with me. After a little while, I noticed W came in and joined in bed as well. I did not let it get to me, just got up in the morning and got ready for work. W and S3 got up a little after I was finished. S was sitting on the couch, I just sat next to him to eat my breakfast and hang out with him. W brought me some coffee and sat down. She asked me, "Why are you letting S3 sleep in bed with you now?" I respond, "He has been falling asleep pretty readily recently, and it was the kicking and not sleeping that bothered me before. Plus I really just do not feel like getting up in the middle of the night."
I think she felt I was allowing him to stay in bed to spite her in the situation, of which I can see that. I did not get into it and she did not bring it up. She could have asked. When he does that, and asks where she is, I tell him, and let him know he can go down there if he wants.
All other conversations were short and polite. I checked the laptop to make sure she was not using it to talk to OM, she was not. She has her phone that she pays for now, but seems to keep that at bay when I am around.
One thing I have been noticing, is that W will start something, claim she loves it, then not continue on with it, even with continual encouragement, she is not self motivated. She has no hobbies, and she does seem to be down a lot, still. All of this leads me to believe that she has not been using her therapy as intended or it has not really been working well, that she just continually needs to hold onto that high to function. That high being the addiction to the OM at this point. This was apparent when she claimed "I need him" the other night and the fact that nothing else she does makes herself happy - she is depressed and always has been. She really does not see her IC very often as is. Her mother and I wish she would go more often.
The point of her therapy, and actually what she has told me, was that she needs to find herself and get herself to a place where she can make herself happy. Find coping mechanisms to detach from her negativity, GAL. She has even claimed "I need to find my own happiness before being able to love someone else." However, right now, it seems that she has associated all happiness with another individual and does not realize that she is still not able to make herself happy. At least this is from my perspective, as I have noticed these actions, or lack there of, for a long time. Everything else she is doing with regard to this OM is pretty much the same as what she was doing when she was using.
I am considering writing her a letter with my concerns, but I am not sure how it will be taken, and I likely need help drafting it up, if people would be willing to help me with it:
W, I am concerned about you, and I always have been. From my perspective, your actions, words, and decisions feel like they are more of the same from what I have experienced in the past with your addictions. I understand your feelings toward me, and I am not going to contest that. My concern is with what I have heard from you, seen out of you, and how I see the future unfolding for you given your current course.
I feel that the therapy you are pursuing was meant to allow you to figure yourself out for you, and you alone. Providing you tools to allow yourself to become happy for yourself without relying on another individual or "thing." I believe this is the essence of a happy life. I feel, and have found out for myself, that when individuals are able to make themselves happy and love themselves first, they are then capable of truly loving others. Personal happiness comes first though. I feel that, currently, this happiness has been impulsively tied to another individual, of which I feel is very unhealthy and indicative of another addiction. I believe this will ultimately cause strife with you and everyone around you, if not loss, and I feel you have experienced some of this already. I do not want to see this happen to you again. I do want you to be happy, but I believe true happiness can only come from within.
I think it would be best to leave your W be, and not send a letter. The letter sounds as though you 'know best' and that she is addictive, impulsive and unhealthy. Is that going to get you closer to your aim of reconciliation?
I think you need to let go some more, figure out your own stuff and let your W figure out hers. The letter suggests you are still trying to control the outcome here. And what you probably need to focus on is your own detachment.
JMHO....
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
That makes sense. Thank you for the suggestion. I was going to hold onto it for a little anyway, but likely will not now. Letting her work out her problems is a better way to go. Of course, some of it kind of came out later on anyway before I could read your response.
W was looking rather upset, and actually in physical pain yesterday (it is her time of the month), so I did ask her what was wrong. She claimed she felt terrible emotionally and physically. Yesterday, W did visit her AA sponsor. When W left home and came back last month, she claimed she wanted to work on our marriage, and she was supposed to go through a "restructuring" and start over with the 12 steps. She was supposed to be in contact with her sponsor more often and actually work on herself and herself alone, without OM, as she has attached her happiness and recovery to him.
I asked her what her sponsor said about the recent occurrences. W replied that she was supposed to actually find her character defects and work on those. I asked what she thought they were, and she responded, "One is why do I feel like I have to lie to people all the time." I asked if she thought it was because the things she was lying about had negative connotations associated with them or if she felt people would judge her because of them. She responded "maybe?" I then mentioned, "The only things I felt lied to about were how you felt and about your addictions." She did agree to this, and I specifically did not say A, alluding to her A being an addiction. There was a little pause, then I asked her, "have you found out a way to make yourself happy for yourself yet? Without attaching it to a person or thing?" She responded with a very sincere, look, scared even, shaking her head no. I did mention my concern with this and how from the past, I did not feel she was ever able to do this as well. She did not respond with irritation. Acceptance actually. Nothing specific to our R, so she seemed better listening to it, good calm approach, though, yes, I should limit my talking with her.
We were not able to go any further with the conversation as S3 started butting in. She did seem like she wanted to say more though. I just did not push it.
S3 decided he was going to be difficult last night and not sleep in his own bed. He wanted to just sleep with his parents. W used this as an excuse to sleep in bed last night when I was doing other things.
MC appointment is supposed to be tomorrow. Should I remind her, but say that I do not want her going unless it is for anything but improving our marriage? I plan to go on my own at the moment to talk things over with MC and kind of use it as my own IC.
Yesterday, my father asked everyone if there were planning to attend me cousin's out of town wedding. W mentioned this this morning, claiming she would like to go. She said one of the big reasons she wanted to was so she can visit the place associated with one of the shows she likes watching. I did not respond to this aside from a joking standpoint, "Really? So you want to visit the actual place there?" I did not respond yay or nay to actually going yet. Not sure what I should do in this situation. I do not have to go, but would like to, but feel like if she does not want to work on our marriage and she wants to continue with her A, then not with her.
Also, I went and picked up some new cologne yesterday. Put it this morning. She claimed "that smells really nice." I just responded, "Thank you, I like it too."
And yes, I am getting off the comforting train, was kind of easing out of it (since 04/05), just not going to do it anymore now. Sometimes she just seems like she needs to go to a psych ward - actually suggested by my friend yesterday as well. She has mentioned the death thing in the past, and she acted on it to a degree, and that is my only true concern at the moment. Just need to let her figure everything out for herself. Keep myself happy.
i get home from work today and W and S3 are playing in her car. Before getting inside, I look in, W smiles and waves at me kind of excited like, I just give a little smile and do a motion that is a half wave half acknowledging where S3 is.
They come inside, I concentrate on S3 more than anything, with short responses to W. I take S3 down to set him up with his entertainment. I come back up to work on my dinner. W wants starts talking to me about how her mom got on her today. MIL was guilt tripping, and W was looking for someone to take her side. I just validated some of things she was saying with short responses, but ultimately said that it was just the way her mom feels.
I go back down stairs, get out of S3 what he wants for dinner, go back up to get it ready. W asks how my day was, I respond with a simple, "Good, got a good amount done, kept myself busy." Went back to making dinner. Then the interesting part:
W: "What are we doing tomorrow with marriage counselling?" Me: "Do you want to work on and improve our marriage? That is really the only way I feel it is worthwhile. I am not going to go just for closure." She sat and thought. Nods her head. W: "I believe we can be happy together, and it truly is the best thing for S3." Me: "I believe that too, and I agree with you." Long pause. "I believe the best thing to do with this and for us is to leave the past in the past and think positively for the future with goals. It is going to take some time, and we are mostly going to have to work on ourselves, but it is achievable." W: Nods. "One goal I have is moving out of this place. I just cannot do this here anymore" Me: "This house? City? Region?" W: "Yes, somewhere near the ocean, I think you know where." Me: "{Expected city name here}. That is a good goal, and it is something I have been wanting to do too, but we should put a reasonable expectation with respect to time. Are you thinking 6 months, a year? I have to work here, but we should be doing well at work here soon enough to where we can actually do that." W: "Two years." Me: "Good, that is reasonable and that should be a good time frame for my work too."
Some pausing.
W: "I am going to need some space and time to grieve some." Me: "I can understand that." Pausing - make sure food does not burn. "For this to work, it is going to have to be absolutely no contact what-so-ever. This is for both you and I. These things are like addictions, so the extra check is to make sure you do not go back to it and he does not try to contact you." (I did not explain this the first time). W: "Yes, I see that."
Letter written. Sent. Transparency plan in place.
She was very emotional with a lot of this. I asked if she was fully committed, she said yes. Just going to have to sit back and observe for a little while. Make sure without fully jumping on.
W slept on the couch last night. She does need her space.
She got a response from OM this morning. She showed me right away. I appreciated her eagerness to abide by transparency, and funny how he does not get the whole NC thing. It was interesting to say the least, here is a part:
"Well, so, I guess you've been lying to me too. I'm not that special, so why not. I guess when things seem too good to be true, they are. But, my part is I trusted you. I shouldn't have. Like always, I should've just kept everything to myself. Hell, maybe you just found someone else. Either way, whatever. Good luck with your "marriage"."
I honestly started laughing at this on the inside, stayed straight and serious outward though. This guy has had a lot of issues in the past, but they seem like things that he uses to his advantage to be an emotional manipulator. I asked W, "Do you see what he is trying to do here?" She just responded, "I knew he would react like this."
NC - no common meetings at all, no excuses. I have all passwords too all of her social media accounts/emails. His number is still pseudo-blocked (sent to an email and deleted without notification), but I still check texts. We setup her FB notifications to email her when messages are received - filtered to a specific hidden folder and marked as read (We agreed to sending the notifications to my email, but I decided to do this instead).
We went to our MC appointment this morning, and I was half expecting W would decide not to come, but she did to my surprise. We caught the MC up on what has happened in the past couple of months. I honestly did have some memory lapses as I have been thought-stopping and trying to forget some things. I am sure some of it will come back. Talked about a few things from the past that kind of drove us apart, of which W was hoping for out of me, "Expressing from the heart." I acknowledged and agreed. I was never the best at this, but it was worse later on "cold and rigid" was how it was described. I acknowledged that most of the time in the past a lot where I went wrong was how I approached difficult situations and did/said the wrong things without even considering changing/doing 180s. During the appointment, I did mention my belief about how getting one's self better is a priority and how I feel a lot better for and about myself now than I have for a long time. That I have been going out with friends, socializing, and doing things for myself to get me there. MC asked me, "Are you involved with someone else?" This was a confusing question, but I can see where she is coming from. I just responded "Nope."
In closing, the MC said/asked, "Now this may take a long time, but it might not, are you both committed?" She got two yeses.
We have another MC appointment next week. I called the counselor back later so I could set up an appointment with her to talk some things over, maybe even do IC with her. I want to use that time to bring some things up regarding DB. Let her know what I have been using and would like to hear what she has to say about it. How I have not perfected it, but feel like it has helped me substantially. I did not want to mention DB in the joint appointment just yet, until I can see W coming through a bit more.
Finished DR a couple of days ago. Continue to refer back to it. Started on No More Mr. Nice Guy. Have Models (Mark Manson) on the way. I do also have Hold Me Tight to read.
