First I would like to say, I just discovered this site recently and wish I had seen it months ago as I feel like I have done all of the wrong things once I found out. This is long, but relevant.
W Current Situation W has no job, and just started graduate school (local university, but all classes are online, so she stays at home, took out student loans). She is in a drug and alcohol recovery program where she attends an intensive outpatient (IOP) drug therapy program and goes to AA meetings (at least one per day). This has been going on since May 2014. She was a night time nurse at a local hospital. She had depression issues from the past (father - abusive emotionally and physically), and after our S3 was born, she had postpartum coupled in with that. Her depression increased to the point where she started taking narcotics from work and using them herself. Her drinking was getting out of hand as well (dangerously). Through a drug screening and investigation, she was caught, fired, and went into this rehab program as to not allow anything to go against her license. She is also attending counseling/therapy for herself, finally (I, along with her mother, have asked her to several times in the past).
M Current Situation I am currently employed with a PhD in engineering working to provide for my family (sole provider). I am not going through any therapy, but have found a great deal of information to help myself in several different forums and here. I am an excellent father, by no means lazy at work or at home, and have attempted to do everything I can to make her feel supported and happy. I have done a lot of things for myself. Lost weight (more stress related, but something I have been wanting to do), changed my wardrobe, take care of myself better, moods and appearance (I have had a lot of random women throwing compliments and creepily staring at me recently), and GAL'ed decently well. I have worked on some of the problems we have had in the past: validation, no emotionally charged conversations, patience, being supportive, listening better, etc.
Current R Situation We are both still living together, sleep in the same bed. We do get along quite well, conversing, joking, laughing, though, seemingly more as a friendship at times. We both come together very well for our S3. We have not had any conversations about our relationship for several weeks at this point.
She has claimed that she loves me but is not in love with me. When I found out about her A, she then claimed that she does not believe that she has ever loved me, and then subsequently said that she does not want to be married to me (never showed me papers though). Our relationship conversations have been difficult since, as I have not been able to control my emotions too terribly well, until about the last month or so. I have been detaching, but not to the full degree found here.
Background We did marry young. Had some immature tendencies, but our biggest problems (my opinion) were our attitudes and lack of communication about our problems. I was never a big talker in the first place, but always did things for people. I live by actions speak louder than words, and have shown that for years. Just felt like it was never appreciated or seen as she seemed to be so depressed that she was unable to find enjoyment in what I did/do for her. Made me upset.
I knew my W had depression problems from the beginning, but I loved everything else about her and figured we could get through that. Shortly after marriage, I noticed her depression manifesting by her lying in bed all day and her not really wanting to do anything. I would always ask her what was wrong, and all she did for a long time was claim "I have been off my meds, and promise to get back on them." She did this to her mother as well. I got used to this, but always figured it was more due to her past depression with her father mostly. That and she was working night shift nursing (random days worked increasing her hours for the money) and I was working normal work hours (grad school and now real job). It was difficult to plan anything for ourselves, especially when she had to sleep the next day she was off to get back on schedule.
Her increased depression, I believed, led to a sex-starved relationship, and the lies. Sources of contention for me.
When she was caught with her drug use, and fired, a few other things mounted on top of this. A couple weeks prior, one of our dogs had an emergency surgery. Huge vet bill - went from two incomes to only my income to pay for it, and now health insurance - financial stress. A couple of weeks after this, other dog, age 5, (best one I have ever had) was diagnosed with lymphoma (6-12 months to live). Depression, more financial stress as decided to provide chemo. Month later, he needed emergency surgery, more financial stress and depression. He was worth it though. At this point, I needed some space and time for myself, and basically just worked. Provided some support to W, but otherwise not terribly happy. Did not really have the money at the time to do anything. However, she was going through treatment program, I figured she would get better, then I would get better, and it would all go well.
When I was first being told some of these problems she had between us and found out about OM from AA. She claimed there was one thing that I said to her in the past, of which she has been holding onto for a long time. Situation: She had been drinking heavily (including when she was sole care taker of our S, 1 at the time), and a few days prior I had found her stash of narcotics, linked a few things together in my head and realized she was using as well. When she was lying in bed all day, as she had done several times in the past (always ask her what was wrong and asked her to get therapy when she never told me), I asked her what was wrong again. She said she wanted a divorce. I said, "W, if that is what you want, I am going to be forced to take full custody of our S because of the things you do. I just have to show someone your drawer in your bathroom, and your drinking. Please get yourself help." What she heard: "I am going to sue you for full custody because of the things you do." Not quite the right thing for me to say, and she heard nothing else. Was telling her what the legal system would do in that situation, and subsequently trying to get her to get herself help for her problems. Asked her several times in the past for her drinking though, too. It was never heard, along with none of the other times after this incident. I did what I could, but nothing worked, so I concentrated on protecting our S and working.
Shortly after, I went to her mother to tell her that I was sorry for the aforementioned quote and that I felt W seemed to be pulling away. W's sister came in as well. MIL said not to worry about it, it was not my fault, but it would have been nice to know about the chemical dependence issues. I also found out that my MIL, SIL, and BIL were concerned about W with this guy she had been talking to, I did not mention anything about OM to them, they had noticed themselves. In the end, the all said, "whatever you decide to do, we will support you, and we love you" That could be helpful.
Several times since then, I told W several things that would happen (family will not support this, I do not appreciate or support this, etc. etc.)
A little later. I got irritated at W, decided not to argue, went and did some work without letting anyone know. I disregarded W's concerned texts and calls so I could concentrate. She decided to go to her mother herself and tell her she was having an EA. Mother laid into her. This exact same thing happened to her. Her exH is an alcoholic, went to AA, found another person, hid everything, divorced. She was not going to tolerate this again, especially from the daughter she raised, and neither was W's entire family. Everyone is on my side on this. What came out of this, was that W's mother told her that she needs to work with me on our R and get rid of OM completely, because she will not accept him at all or support her if she leaves. Mentioned something about "you have no money, job, etc. etc. what are you going to do on your own?" W called me up, claiming an ultimatum (MIL said otherwise, trust her more on this at the moment anyway) and said she was going to end it with OM and work on our R. Sounds good. I gave her some time and space to get over him. I did not force her into MC, especially since she goes to counseling for everything else.
Things seem to have been going well for the past 2-3 weeks, cannot fully trust her though, especially since she sees OM everyday at her AA meetings. Got irritated at her mother when it was brought up again that she could not trust her, claimed she has had minimal communication with him since. Noticed her hiding communication device displays again. Decided to do a confirmatory check. Found out she still talks and hangs out with OM. This was last Friday. Took about 30 min. to detach from this. Been doing more of the detaching methods since, and she noticed. Actually asked me why I was pulling back. Unfortunately, this came about when our cancer ridden dog was doing poorly. Just yesterday, we had to put him down. Lots of emotions, decided to cut back on the rules and detachment for at least a day. Felt like we came closer together on the matter. Will likely go back to them.
I know I need to really bring up my boundaries again with her, and probably enforce them better, though she is home all day and I work. Not sure if I should wait until I notice her hiding displays again, go easy on her grief over our loss, or just come out with it. I feel like timing is key. I have been taking in a lot of what Starsky has posted. Here are my thoughts of what I want to tell her:
"W, trust is something that is built over time with consistent actions. Given the circumstances of your affair, I can honestly not be fully trusting of you at this time. I did for a long time, but it is not there at the moment, and the consistent actions have not been shown to me. Trust is very important to me when it comes to a relationship.
When you close the monitor on my computer, quickly go for the mouse to hide a window, or quickly hide the screen of that phone when I am just walking by, I feel like something is being hidden from me, and I am being lied to. When I feel like I am being lied to, I feel upset, frustrated, completely disrespected, and completely unappreciated for the things I do. It feels like there is still an affair going on. I am not willing to be in an open marriage or relationship, and I am not going to tolerate this or the lies anymore. These are very important boundaries to me.
I know I cannot control you, tell you what to do, how to feel, or how to think, not do I want to do those things. You are a grown woman and can make your own decisions, and likewise accept the consequences. I do not want to sit here and monitor your texts, calls, or fb, to make sure you can be trusted. I do not have the time or need to do that, especially since I have to work to support our family. All I can do is control myself and the things I know how to control, including most of the things in this house.
I do love you, and I want you to be here, but the reality to the matter is, I do not need you to be here. I am in a position where I am willing to work on any and all of the problems we have had in the past. I have been doing a lot for myself recently, feeling better about a lot of things, taking better care of myself, and working on some of the problems you have had with me. Now, it would be greatly appreciated if you were to actually do what you told me and your entire family what you have already done as soon as possible, because my patience is wearing thin."
Note: I pay all of the bills, bought the phone and service plan she uses. That, with her and my entire families on my side, and with her mental and medical issues, I am confident I have an upper hand on really everything.
If she continues her screen hiding, I plan to change the wireless internet password and limit the cell phone use. If she comes back and says she will not, I plan to give her a few options. A) Allow me to monitor for trustworthy compliance, B) (if A continues) She can pay me $25K and for bills every month, or C) (if A continues) She can leave and continue on with her A elsewhere, not in my house. All of which I will back up saying that these are for my own mental well-being and security, this is the way it needs to be.
I feel like she will likely through some of this back at me "this is a stressor and I cannot handle it (drinking relapse)", or "that is an ultimatum", or "that is too much pressure". At this point I really do not care.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Worked out the grieving last couple days over our lost loved one. He was always there for me when times got bad.
Ended up crossing a boundary with her while grieving. The day of our loss, we did a lot of consoling together. Comforting, deep, passionate kissing, seemingly, she was likely faking it. Yesterday she had no desire for physical interaction (I was just hugging her, read it wrong apparently), she did kiss me good night, though. Later I apologized "I am sorry for getting into your bubble earlier. Boundaries are boundaries." Dropping a little food for thought there.
She did make a comment that I have been wearing my nicer clothes further into the evening after work. I told her that I am comfortable in them. Have been feeling better about myself with my lost weight and new wardrobe. She played with my hair too - noticing that is better kept as well.
Decided to do another confirmatory check of FB, OM still there (do not worry, I can get over it pretty quick - detaching has worked well). She slept with no pants on last night, not a normal thing, just occasional. Not sure if she was too hot or insinuating something, did not try or act like I made notice of it. I moved away from her if she got closer. She used to go to the polar end of the bed, now she gravitates to the middle more often.
W had an issue with S3 getting in her face this morning, I dropped a "buddy, we should not cross people's boundaries." Hopefully this is being heard and understood. When I left for work this morning, I spoke with S3 a little "you be good, have fun, I love you" with a kiss. After he responded, I picked up my stuff, walked out the door saying "I hope you have a good day." Nothing else.
I plan to speak to her about my boundaries today. I am thinking about starting off with something to the effect:
"Boundaries are important when it comes to relationships. Yesterday, I crossed yours while grieving, and I am sorry. Any boundary you have I will respect. I have boundaries, too...."
Planning to change up the wording a little bit "...please stop crossing my boundaries as soon as possible, because my patience...." as to not let her think I have been checking up on her. May request to see her messages though. Want her to decide. would like add "...I am not willing to be in an open relationship, I am not willing to be lied to, and I am not willing to have my family and your family be lied to. This goes against all of my morals and values, and I am not going to tolerate it...."
Trying to decide if I should cut off communication devices first - they are all mine and I can easily control them.
Throughout this entire process, I have been torn as how to handle this. Reading up on things that suggest how to support your spouse going through chemical dependence programs tell you to give them as much space as they need no matter how painful it gets. They tell you that this exact situation may happen. The number one priority is them to prevent relapse. I have been trying to do that, however, I just cannot stand up for that anymore, for myself and my family. Sometimes it seems like she does not believe there will be repercussions for her actions. Seems like OM is rather manipulative - as most chemical dependence people are. Sad really.
I think you should speak with ACTIONS and not words.
Part of my opening post tells you to believe nothing she says and 1/2 of what she does. Well I can turn that around to her and tell her the same thing. She believes none of what YOU say and half of what YOU do.
So try to let your ACTIONS speak for what you want to communicate. It will be much more effective.
Hi Cadet and thank you for the suggestion, makes sense.
Funny you should mention that. When I got home from work yesterday evening, she was not feeling well and having some physical ailments. I decided to hold the talk off. She mentioned how horrible she was feeling. I validated, and empathized, calmly. We did have some good conversations and a few laughs. She did mention a concert she wanted to go to in a few months. I just basically said "that sounds fun" without saying if I would go or not.
I did, however, come home with my ring off. I have some work related reasons I can use, but she never asked. I also decided to restrict internet access to the phone she uses between 4pm and midnight - it connects, just does not allow anything to go through, but also prevents use of the cell phone data. Pretty funny watching her squirm and attempt to fix it. Thinking about doing that with the other computers in the house too. Plan to cut back her cell phone plan as well, or just suggest to her that she can pay for it to relax my bills, maybe get her own. Can also restrict her phone access for a longer period of time throughout the day, if desired. Thoughts?
I always have used actions in the past. Concentrating on doing things to support her through her chemical dependence treatment (though was not there early on, as I was depressed myself, per the background story above), this is suggested by literature, regardless of how bad it gets, to prevent relapse - this does not help me though with it going to far. Recently been doing things for myself though. Going out with friends after putting S3 to bed, or during the day out of the blue. Play soccer a couple nights a week. I do feel a lot better about myself, and really have no qualms with her being there or not, though would like her to.
She has been asking me to help her with finding an article for her school work per my better resources. Been holding off on this, I have to work myself....
I was woken up this morning by her extending her feet over to me and rubbing her toes on my legs. Just got up and took a shower. We talked a bit this morning, laughed some more. When leaving, she had to run to the restroom, kissed me on the forehead. I told her "I hope you feel better." Then told S3 "Have a good day, be good, love you," somewhat loudly.
W does not think I actually know it is still going on. She is a good mother overall. Like I have said, we do still get along and laugh about things, and come together well for our son. I know I am more of a "backup" though at this point. Made her too comfortable. I do not really bring up conversations to her. I let her approach me, and she has been doing so, just not about anything serious. It is not like we hate each other. I am irritated, naturally, that she continues to disrespect my boundaries, though I know I have done that to myself.
Any ideas of suggested actions would be appreciated. I do not want her to feel controlled, but to get the point, but I feel like if I do not tell her, that she will not see it that way.
I am actually thinking about doing some other fun things, too. Possibly completely block FB at home, or just the messenger/chat functions, "technical problems." The computer she uses is mine. I am considering taking it so I can "use it at work." She can use her laptop, then I can still block traffic to that. It can still work outside of the home though.
I played it off when she was inquiring about why her phone was acting up. "Did you drop it or hit it with something?" Really not sure if I should tell her what is actually happening, or use some other sort of altruistic claim of why I set that up.
Would it be too far to get her phone to be so "messed up" at home to the point she gives it to me to "fix" and I block OM number without her knowing? Feels like it may be too controlling and upset her too much...but I still pay the bills for it, and bought it. Suppose I do not have to tell her. She is the one trying to hide something from everyone.
Considering getting a security system, as I have had some things stolen out of my car. "I was told some peoples' houses have been broken into, so I am getting one for our family's safety." Simple one, couple cameras, alarms on the entries.
I can do a lot of things in the background technically, just not sure if something gets brought up, whether I should say "I did it because of this..." or just play it off with some other excuse and then a "I can look at it when I get a chance" type statement.
I have been working the rules for the most part. Pretty well detached. We were saying "I love you" for a few weeks on departures, until I realized she was hiding A again. She did ask "Why are you pulling back," to which I did not know exactly what to say. What ended up coming out was "Oh I am sorry, I did not realize I was doing that." To which she said "Come here and kiss me." So I did. I just rediscovered Friday, this was the next day. May have been a little abrupt of a change for her.
Don't tell her, DO something to protect your boundary. Like if she is using the phone to continue the A then stop paying for the phone. She comes in late, install an alarm (got that from Starsky, love it). She chats online with OM, cancel internet. If she wants it she can do it herself, why should you facilitate the A. It's not controlling, it's making a boundary that shows you're serious. If you say "if you don't do what I say I will do this to you" that is controlling. But if asked what happened to the internet service you can say "you were using it to continue the A and I'm not paying for that. You can pay for it if you want"
Me:49 W:45 M:19 T:22 EA confirmed and ended 8/2014 S:19,17 D:9,5
I have been working on my wording with boundaries, and appreciate all of the insight here.
Basically if she does ask, then I should outright tell her that I know? Or should I keep it a little more mysterious saying something like "I felt like you were using it to continue your A. If you want it back you can learn how to unblock it. I thought you were doing homework anyway?"
I think the longer you wait to take action with your boundaries the harder it will be. The eventual backlash grows the longer you wait. When I discovered my W's EA I cut all communications and demanded transparency which I was able to monitor without her knowledge. I demanded NC with anyone who helped her with her EA (a brother and a "friend"). I laid out my boundaries and enforced them on day one and had very little backlash. Setting the tone when the WS is in the "caught" mode is the best timing for setting and enforcing boundaries. I think if I introduced them and enforced them later on there would have been tons of backlash.
Me:49 W:45 M:19 T:22 EA confirmed and ended 8/2014 S:19,17 D:9,5
Ok.... lots to read and right now just not enough time BUT.. If wife is using phone you pay for to conduct her affair I would do this
Tell her "using the phone I pay for to communicate with OM is disrespectful to me, you can either stop all communication with him using this phone or I will turn the service off and you can go buy your own" then give her a few minutes to decide and then follow through. If she says no contact using phone then just put key stroke logger on to verify (without her knowledge) and go from there. If she says your controlling tell her "I am not controlling you, I am controlling where the money goes that I work hard for and that is ment to support our family."
Me: 35 husband:39 Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage Twins 5 (boy/girl) Daughter 3 Affair bomb 2/27/14 He moved in with ow 3/13/14 OW kicked him out 6/15/14 4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction
