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Hello all,

I am new here and I hope that I have posted this message in the right place. My wife and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4.5 years. We have two children, 5 and 6 years old. Our whole time together I have been the person who has largely been in control of the relationship. I have not felt like this was in a domineering sort of way, just really that I am more intelligent (that's not meant to sound big headed or anything) and so when it has come time to make decisions on things I have usually taken the initiative, partly because she has not been interested in things. For example, she wouldn't be able to tell me how much an electricity bill was.

So, we have gotten along fine for years but in recent months I had noticed that she was being more distant with me. We argue quite a bit, and on some of the occasions when we argue I have really shouted and been nasty to her. I realise now that this was wrong, and I think I knew at the time, but I thought that was just how our relationship and arguments went. She was also angry and nasty to me when we argued, but not to the same degree as I have been to her.

Anyway, over recent months I noticed that she was on her phone a lot more than usual. Whilst I was literally being sick about 5 months ago I noticed a short while later that texts on her phone to a male colleague matched the very moment I was being ill and she was meant to be looking after our children elsewhere in the house. I confronted her and she said they were just friends. The messages I saw were just friendly work banter but I wasn't happy. Then again, shortly before last Christmas we had been arguing, and somehow it came about that I saw she had been messaging this same person on Christmas day at 7.00am. There was one final time when she has apparently been on a night out to her cousin's house and she came home at 1.00am and thought I was asleep. In the past she would come in drunk, wake me up, and try to initiate sex. This time I heard her creeping about the house, creep upstairs, could sense even with my eyes shut that she was on her phone, and so I jumped up and asked her what she was doing. I saw a message on her phone saying something along the lines of 'have a good night hun, see you soon xxx. The next morning I rang her cousin where she has meant to have been but her cousin knew nothing about her coming to visit her the evening earlier. I confronted my wife and she said she had been out riding on the bus and thinking about the situation. The final straw came when at the end of January she out of the blue told me that she had to go into work to do an extra shift. My wife always complains about work and so I thought it odd that she would be volunteering for extra work. Anyway, she left without getting changed into her work uniform properly and forgot her keys. I went after her to give her the keys and decided to call her up to see what she said. She told me she was in one place but I saw her getting onto a bus and going in the opposite direction. I rang her work place that evening and they said she wasn't there. I had the number of the man she had been texting and so I called him - no answer. I texted my wife to ask what was going on and said I knew she was cheating. She told me I was insane and I needed to go to sleep and get some rest.

The next morning she came home and from out of the blue she said she wanted a divorce. She still insisted at this point that there was no affair etc, that she had been at a female work coleague's house the evening prior but she had had enough of me controlling her every move.

At Christmas time she got a new phone. She left the old phone laying about and I used some sms recovery software to see her old deleted messages. This confirmed that she had been having an affair. In the time between the fake work shift and getting this confirmation she had been spending a lot of time laying in bed, telling me she was confused and needed space. I didn't give her any. I did the thing most people do of pleading, crying, telling her I would change, simply because at that point although I had an inkling that she may have had an affair, I tried to convince myself that this was my wife and she wouldn't do something like that. Well, it turns out she did of course.

So, the situation has been that in the last three weeks I have called, texted, pleaded and begged her to give me one more chance. Even after finding out about the affair, I said to her that I forgive her and that I would not hold it against her. I do really mean that. I know that might sound hard to believe but I have really looked at myself and realise that although it is an awful thing that she has done, I am in part guilty of letting things get so bad that she felt the need to do it. I had thought despite the arguments that our lives together had been good. We had recently gone out to the theatre, been on 10+ foreign holidays in the last 2 years, and our children were extremely happy with us, at school etc.

So, realising a few days ago that my efforts were not being rewarded, I stopped the buying of chocolates, gifts etc and found this board and have ordered the DB book (due to arrive today). I have also read alot about LRT and have started to implement it in the day or two. Obviously this is early into things but by dressing far more smartly than I normally do and having a different attitude towards my wife, even in this short space of time I am seeing her change from being angry at me for pleading etc to being slightly confused by my behaviour and wondering what I am doing.

About a week ago she moved out to her parents house, which is a few miles away, with our children. Because I have been coping badly with things I let her take the children and I have been staying at home alone. I was coping so badly that I have had to go to the doctors a few times and was given anti depressants, and also my parents who were worried for me and worried about the chance of me doing something stupid, had called the ambulance service once or twice. Already since reading about LRT I feel infinitely better. I miss my wife and children like mad of course but I realise that I have to take control of things about myself and stop the pleading and chasing before anything even has a chance of working itself out.

My question now is what should I do next. I take and pick the children up from school and go to her parents to spend some time with them before coming home. My wife is usually there and goes in and out of the room whilst I am with the kids. I don't follow her because it is not our house and I don't want to intrude, I simply spend time with the kids and speak to her when she starts a conversation. Should I continue with LRT or do you think that any other 'method' would be applicable here. I do feel like even after a day or two that she sees me differently but of course I don't want her to think that I have actually got over our split. In her most recent arguments with me her main concern has been that I might call her work and reveal her affair or that I might call the other man and speak to him. I did text him a week or so ago but asking for help rather than in a threatening way. My wife told me he got the messages but would never reply. She still seems to be in the throes of having feelings for this other person even though he is about 15 years older than her, and she says that she doesn't love him, it was just about sex because she says that I did not show her enough attention at home. I believe I did but I suppose perception is a tricky beast.

Sorry for rambling on and not writing things in perfect order. I just wanted to get this out there and see if anyone could offer some advice about what to do next. Oh, I should say that my wife says she has not been to see a solicitor and has not mentioned anything about divorce really since the first few days of ending our relationship. It appears that she may be holding out to see how things go with this other man, who is meant to be leaving her workplace in a few weeks, before maybe reconsidering her position with me. Is there anything I could do to aid towards getting her to get over this other man? I don't want to get her work involved though. I couldn't understand why she wouldn't want to work on things after all our history and good times together but she was adamant that it's over, although saying that at times has said you never know what might happen in the future, and has also said that she doesn't want to give me false hope but maybe there is a chance things might work out. I love her dearly and want her back. Her parents are both catholic and are really pro marriage but after the initial shock of her admitting her affair, they seem to be supporting her in finding a new place to rent.

Thanks for reading.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2380415&page=1

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095


Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063&fpart=1

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
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alpha99 Offline OP
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Yesterday my wife thought I had been to the solicitors because I decided to dress in a suit, something I never normally do. I picked the kids up from her parents', took them to school, and then later on picked them up from school meeting my wife there and took them back to her parents'. My wife was talking to another parent at the school. I went over, said hello, she kind of scowled at me, and so minute later I decided to stand apart and use my mobile. When the kids came out my son was a little naugjty, wanting to hold his mum's hand and not doing what I said. My wife and I didn't speak all the way back to hee parents' in the car although I was very upbeat with the children. I reasoned I would not initiate conversation. About an hour at her parents' with kids and then time for home. The whole time my wife was out the room and seemed to be mainly on the phone to someone. She kept out the way in the garden so I guess it was someone she didn't want me to know about. At the end of my time there she let me out the house and got annoyed I wasn't communicating, said we need to for the kids' sake. She said I was a liar and that she didn't care anymore. I think her face and tone belied what she was saying though. I think maybe even a day of little contact, dressing differently and a change in attitude has had an affect. I'm not sure whether that's a good or bad one though. I want her to sense the loss I do but I don't want to alienate her. It's a difficult balancing act. DB book came yesterday. I've read the first 70 pages. Very interesting stuff. I've scanned through the second half and can't wait to put into action some of the little things I've read...not yet though...need ti finish the book and reflect forba day or so I think on what is best way to go about things.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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alpha99 Offline OP
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I've just come back from picking the kids up and seeing my wife. She started out very hostile with me. I think wearing a suit and completely changing from pleading and moping took her by surprise...but in the wrong way. She was adamant I have an agenda and thought it was that I wanted to go through the courts to sort out custody of our children. I told her that was not the case but she didn't believe me. The conversation went on and she was so annoyed with me and demanded honesty that in the end I said I had been reading about people going through what we are and that sometimes things work out, I broke down momentarily and said how I felt, that I still love and didn't want any if this. Maybe that was the wrong thing to do but it certainly did ease the tension. She said we are separated...like I didn't know...and she said that I was free to see other people if I wanted to. I said I didn't want to. The way she said it thigh wasn't very convincing. It appeared like she would be deeply bothered if I saw.someone else. I asked if she wanted to see anyone else and she said, no, she hates all men. In the end she requested that we be nicer tobeach other forbthe sake.of the kids. I have to say I have tried being nothing but nice, mayve not instigating conversations but not being rude etc. She had picked up on this attitude and thought that I was over her already.

We have arranged to go out with our children for tea tomorrow evening. We have been out a few times with the kids in the last few weeks but each time I was still in the begging and pleading phase. Just last saturday we went to the cinema and I spent most of the time crying in the seat next to her. That won't happen tomorrow. I plan to be strong and have a nice friendly time with the kids and her. I hope through reconnecting over time through family events such as this thY we can reconcile. I can see it taking weeks rather than months but i am in this for the long haul. Does anyone have any advice on what to do and not do at our meeting tomorrow? Obviously the children will be present. I hope this is a turning point as surely being nice with each other as a family will start to heal things.

I've written this from my mobile so apologies for typos etc.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
A
alpha99 Offline OP
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I meant taking months not weeks of course in my last post.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 18
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Hi Alpha,

I've just registered today and I read your post.

I guess my opinion and sorry this is just my advise is for you to read and digest any useful information, but be yourself, and do not plea or beg for your wife, do for your children which is important and think of your wife not as a friend, but as someone you care for. It is difficult but I know that if she sees you as your supportive for the children and that you want her to spend a good time and you are not needy for her to comeback, maybe you may see a turning point.

I hope all goes well with you :-)

Keep me updated how it all goes with you, as I have started to keep a track with the forum, it is really great and I have ordered the book.

Luis

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alpha99 Offline OP
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I've been to pick the kids up and take them to school. Things were a lot better this morning in some respects. My wife had worked a night shift and was barely awake when I arrived. She was just staying up to say goodbye to the kids. I only spoke to her a couple of times, asking about work, if she was tired etc. She replied in a pleasant enough manner. The only downside being that when I asked if she was still alright to gi out for tea this evening she said she didht know whether that was a good idea. I said just let me know. She said, well, you're takibg them anyway, aren't you? Which I am. I hope she does come with us of course but I won't text or call to push her. I think I'll wait and see if she contacts me to go herself. I don't want to apply pressure. At least things are cordial atbthe moment and the intense anger/hatred if the last few days appears to gave subsided. Let's see what happens later today.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
A
alpha99 Offline OP
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Posts: 399
I've just purchased some coaching sessions. I have been feeling better in recent days but I have just returned from a family meal out and feel awful. Untried hard to socialise but my heart wasn't in it. I miss my wife and children so much. I just hope I can find a way to get things back on track.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
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Have you read DB/DR yet?
Keep us updated on how that reading is going and what you are learning.


Me-70, D37,S36
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alpha99 Offline OP
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Hi Cadet,

I have DB book now. I have read about three quarters of it, although not in sequenece. The book is excellent although I find it slanted towards people still living together. My wife moved to her parents about 10 days ago. Since I've stopped chasing her contact is limited to picking up and dropping off children for school. I see her for maybe at most 30 minutes a day. In that time she is generally angry at me for whatever reason. She had the affair but doesnt trust ne. I have read a lot about the techniques. They seem logical and good ideas. My concern is that they may be subtle for my wife to notice in the shirt time we are together each day. As I wrote above, wearing a suit just ked her to think I was going to a solicitor. Being upbeat and confident led her to think ibwas moving on and over her since it was such a shock to her from pleading a day orbtwo prior. I feel like I'm trying hard to make various changes but they may be backfiring. My wife is headstrong but at the same time easily influenced by parents, work colleagues etc. I wish DB had some more advice on a spouse letting go of an affair. As mentioned above my wife post break up seemed.more concerned about me calling her workplace and landing the other man in hitbwater than anything else. At the same.time she insists they have finished. I know they still contact each other. She said after they had sex that the next time they saw each other in work they would just act like friends again. She mentioned how she was obsessed with this other man despite his pot belly and older age. She said she would be annoyed that he blew hot and cold and would nit be interested in her for a while after sex. My feeling is she is still in the throes of her affair obsession hence why she won't work on our marriage. I get the feeling the OM is playing it cool at the moment. I wish there was a way to terminate their communication. He leaves for another job soon although of course they could still maintain contact.
I tried LRT but as I write above she got the the wrong end of the stick, got extremely angry, and I broke down for a minute in a moment of honesty and said I didn't want this, I still loved her etc. That eased the tension but seemed to have out the ball back in her court. I just wonder what changes I can make that will provide a response from her in the little time we have together. I have tried to make goals of making her laugh or getting through a meeting without anger from her. Maybe I'm expecting too much in one go. Everything is so confusing. We went on 4 holidays last year, had some arguments along the way but I thought we were generally fine. Of course We weren't but I've got the coaching package because I don't know what to do next for the best. Being nice to her, helping her out seems to get the best response but I'm worried I'm just being a doormat whilst she lines up all her ducks in a row.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
A
alpha99 Offline OP
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Posts: 399
My wife has literally just called and said she is.coming out for tea after all. Great news. She called me when she didn't have to. She could have stayed in at her parents and saw the kids later. I'm going to be nice with her but strong, no breaking down crying, pleading etc. Hopefully we'll have a good evening and hopefully that might lead to more family gatherings that over time show changes I am trying to make etc. Let's see.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
A
alpha99 Offline OP
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Just back from the evening meal. Had a decent time. Wife was pleasant mostly with the odd moment of sharpness. The kids enjoyed going out for tea. Main points: we laughed over a situation regarding a neighbour. That's the first time in a while we shared a laugh. She asked about selling our house and clearing the place out, then decorating for sale. She mentioned going to view places to rent at the weekend. She disappeared a few times mid meal to go shopping (cafe is in supermarket). Polite conversation, nothing fantastic. A step in.the right direction regarding getting along with each other but no sense of loss, regret, missing me etc from her that I could detect.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 18
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Posts: 18
Just need to give both you and your wife time, but more important spend time with your children and just keep reading the book as this will help you for the better.

Keep posting how it goes.

Luis

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alpha99 Offline OP
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I'm beginning to feel slightly better for longer periods of time. I miss my wife and kids like mad and it is strange waking up in our house and they are not there. having said that, I am slightly getting used to a routine without them being here. I occasionally in the night imagine that I hear one of them shout something, like daddy, or hear a door close, or something similar. It is an odd feeling because these things used to happen all the time but now there's just silence.

I had my first coaching session last night with Amanda. It was excellent. She didn't necessarily give me anything new as I spent a lot if time explaining the situation but she did give positive encouragement on things I've been doing right, what should continue, and those things which must never happen. The best response I've had in the short term has been to be nice to my wife. I had tried not initiating conversation and I'd tried ending activities early, both with varying degrees of success. I have started in the last few days keeping a journal of changes I see in her linked to my actions. I plan to fine tune the things going right and abandon anything that doesn't appear to work. I have the stamina to go through everything to win her back over time. I am going to 180 a few more 180s to mix things up, I've been keeping contact minimum via texts and calls, and as stated previously I have seen a change of her laughing with me yesterday, asking how ny day went, if I had a good time, things like these which haven't happened in a while. I experienced some backlash when she pre empted our.meal out by saying don't get your hopes up, we are just out for tea. I did bot respond negatively though, I just said, I know, we are just here for our meal.

Keeping this online diary has been a great idea, it's a good release to get thoughts out 'on paper' and I would recommend anyone reading who hasn't done so to start something like this now.

My wife has a few days off work coming up now so it will be interesting to see what happens, whether she contacts to do anything or whether she continues along the road I expect if house hunting and wanting to decorate our house in order to sell it.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
A
alpha99 Offline OP
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I should have said in my last post, my wife keeps asking what I want to do about our house. She wants to sell for the money. I want to keep it but couldn't afford it.on my own. We worked hard to pay off our mortgage quicker than necessary and if things work out I would like to still have our home, even if we did sell it and.move to a new home in the future. Should I drag my feet on clearing the house, letting her decorate, selling it etc in the hope things work out and she returns home. That might have a negative affect of appearing unhelpful or stubborn etc. Should I instead be ever helpful in which case I might be speeding the process up but by appealing to her in being helpful it could also aid our reconciliation...should one happen.

I really don't want to sell the house. Current wages and employment would mean living with parents. I want my family home but my wife is pretty adamant at the moment that she would never live in our town again and wants to live in a nearby town a few mikes away. I would be willing to move with her in future should things work out but why move to rented accommodation when we own a house. She is dead against ever getting a mortgage ever again. Maybe this just her speaking in absolute negatives at the moment.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
A
alpha99 Offline OP
Member
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
Wife called asking about kids going into school despite me already texting her to say they were fine. She was asking where I was, if I had an appointment, generally what I was up to. She is very suspicious of me.
Been out for a bit, came home, mail was there for wife with solicitors name on the front. I called her to ask why she had been in touch. She said it was from weeks ago when is said she wouldn't see kids and I'd made recordings of her telling lies and threatening me. I said I had no intention of going to a solicitor. She asked why not if we are separated. I explain that I took our marriage vows seriously despite the current situation. She said we are separated and we coukdnt stay married forever if we met other people. I said I had no intention of doing that. She said, you say that but...'. She said she had no intention of meeting other people either...whether that is true as time goes on who knows. I feel I can't make progress being nice to her if being nice is perceived by her as a strategy of mine to get her onside before launching legal proceedings. I mentioned the detrimental effect of divorce on children. I said I didn't want to discuss our relationship because we know where we stand but who knows what the future holds. Regarding the marriage vows and lifelong commitment bit, she said that was before you treated me like [censored] and threw a plate at me. She appears to have a very selective memory at the moment, blinded by anger and suspicion. I don't think its going to be possible to stop her moving to rented accomodstion as things stand. She is very defensive over the children, accuses me of being too calm, is suspicious of me, and all of this is hindering progress.

Last edited by alpha99; 02/27/15 11:07 AM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
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Hi Alpha,
Sorry to hear first of all. You mentioned so many times that W is suspicious and angry towards you. Is it possible she is just reflecting her own actions on you??? It is typical for cheaters, they all do that!! Hang in there. Read DR again after you are done. Browse through other threads here and try to find the ones that are similar to your situation. Especially in the beginning reading helps the most. Gain as much knowledge as you can as fast as you can and apply it!!!
And don't let her offensive behaviour get to you too much and don't believe what she is saying. For now I'd just step back from conflicts with her, focus on yourself, read read read and then eventually you have a better idea of what to do, how to react. Realize that this is more about YOU (and your children) than about anything else now.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Hi Complex, thank you for the great advice. I have read most of DB now. I have ordered DR now too. It is due tomorrow. You are right in that maybe she is reflecting her own personality and it is coming out as suspicious of me. I found out today that she has contacted a solicitor, although I think my post above outlined why.

Wife has come off night shifts and has a few days off. She will be house hunting tomorrow. My children mentioned that she has said she will take them to the cinema tomorrow morning. She has not mentioned this to me and I haven't asked about it. I did say this afternoon that I would like to take the children out on Sunday for a fun day out to the fair. It will be interesting to see if she comes with us. The place I would go to is about an hour drive way and it is the kind of place we would used to have gone to.

Regarding her anger and suspicion, I have just come back from her parents' house. The kids are happy, that's a good thing, but my wife, maybe being tired since she hasn't slept following working a night shift last night, was again mistrusting and called me a liar once more. The funny thing is that for all my faults one thing I am not is a liar. In fact I am so honest that it has caused problems in the last with not just my wife but others. I am being nothing but nice with my wife. She turned up unexpectedly at our house this afternoon whilst I was in the bath reading DB. She complained to me again, said I had a plan or agenda, but in the end accepted a lift to the kids' school, waited in the car whilst I collected the kids, and gave her and the kids a lift back to her parents'.

Upon arriving she really didn't want me to go into the house. Her mother invited me in and made me a cup of tea. I stayed about 30 minutes. Her father came home from work. Both her parents have been quite nice with me this last week. I think for all my complaints of them in the last they at least realise how hard this is, and they know exactly how stubborn their daughter can be. Her father asked me how I was, I said not good. My wife wasn't present so I spoke a little further, explaining how hard things were, they weren't right, the kids will suffer in the long term, and how I wish at some point she would reconsider things. He agreed with me on most points without saying too much. He said my wife hadn't really spoken to them about things much as she'd been in work a lot this week.

Let's see how the weekend goes. It's now a month apart but this will be the first weekend with no pleading, crying etc. It will be interesting to see if she contacts me, accepts invitation of day out. Fingers crossed as a full day out rather than just a meal or sat quietly in a cinema would be a big step forward I feel.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Again: that she is projecting things on you that are not true is pure SCRIPT. Read the posts here, they ALL do that. Personally it feels like a punch in your fave every single time right? But you know what you have to try to do? Think of her as being "sick", she's not herself, there's another person in her body, don't let it get to you. Try to "observe" instead of to react to her. Be calm and loving. It might make her even more mad bc she doesn't get the reaction from you that she expects or wants, but YOU know you are doing the right thing! I always tried to think about it like watching a movie.
It's called DETACHMENT! smile you'll hear this word a thousand more times.

And DONT talk bad about W in front of her parents! It'll all backfire, she'll find out. Show them you love her and you are commited to her, that's what parents want to see. But also don't try to get them on your side. Stay strong but let them stay neutral. Be mature. Correct me vets if I'm wrong with this.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Originally Posted By: Complex


And DONT talk bad about W in front of her parents! It'll all backfire, she'll find out. Show them you love her and you are commited to her, that's what parents want to see. But also don't try to get them on your side. Stay strong but let them stay neutral. Be mature. Correct me vets if I'm wrong with this.


Tell them you are committed to her, and to the marriage, but that you do have your boundaries and must protect yourself. That you love her, you DON'T want a divorce, but you also won't wait forever.

Ask them to support neither you nor her individually, but to support THE MARRIAGE.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Well said. Thanks


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Thank you both for the advice. I had read in LRT not to get the support of her family members. I had stopped texting them in that regard from last week. It was her father making a genuine enquiry about how I was doing that prompted me to speak. It was a 30 second conversation. As I recall I don't think I put W down, I said I knew things were my fault and I hoped over time she woukd reconsider. Her father is a deacon, a step below a priest I believe. He is all for marriage but also a very hen pecked person and W has little respect for him and his opinions. I get the feeling that he sees that reconciliation may be the best option forball involved but like myself he is powerless to do much about that, and as per his nature will ultimately tow the line with what his wife, my wife decide. Such a shame. As per your advice I won't be trying to illicit support from her parents anymore. I did text father in law when I got back hole yesterday just to say W had the idea that since I dressed smartly recent days, stopped crying etc that I was over her, had moved on, had a plan to launch legal proceedings and take the kids. In fact, my wife said yesterday that she was weary of me taking the kids for a day out.over the weekend in case indidnt bring them back. I just explained via text to her father how daft all that was, how I'm just trying to.do what's right in a difficult situation. From his attitude in their house I feel he understands where I'm.coming from.

I may be wrong, and I did say I'm not asking you to tell wife this, but my hope in speaking/texting was not to get them onside in some campaign to get her back but rather have them understand where I'm coming from in the hope that gets transmitted to W somehow and it stops the rot. As I've said before she sees being nice to her as me having an agenda and is waiting forbme to 'stab her in the back. If we could move from this point to one where she sees niceness for just that then that would be a big step. I know time and patience are required, and now I've spoke to father in law roughly.about this (not so directly as here) I won't be mentioning this topic to him again.

Thank you all so much for your support and advice, it's been so good.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Just a quick thought I've had, but would anyone have any idea on how to respond to direct questioning over certain things? For example, if W asks why are you being so nice? Why aren't you fighting? I don't understand, you said X but now you're doing Y. Are you trying to use reverse psychology? So far, following LRT, I've said things like I'm just trying to make positive changes in.myself, there's no point in fighting, it doesn't solve our problems etc. She doesnt sound convinced of these answers hence her suspicions. Am I answering in the right way in trying to be vague and so on? I am making changes for myself but of course the goal is to win her back also. I know of course not to say that to her but this is one point where I do feel slightly in limbo. I can make changes and let them been seen subtly without going Ta dah! But reading about LRT option two is that W might take interest in a positive manner. There have been moments of that but again it's outweighed by accusatory questions of what you doing that for?


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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M: 4.5yrs
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I'm having a bad day. My wife called and is ill so I have the kids. I took my daughter to ballet and then both children to the cinema. I felt so lonely, not the kind of life I imagined being a weekend dad. Things will no doubt change in time but things hit home today exactly how hard it is to just be there for the kids part time. Wife has appointment about now to go and look at a house. I will take the kids back in about 2 hours. They are both asleep right now and I feel a little ill. Need to hang in there I know.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Something along the lines of
"The situation we are in was a wake up call for me to make some changes in my life. I see that I have not been the best person I can be and want to change that. These changes are for me, if you want a divorce I am not going to stand in your way but since that's not a mutual goal I won't help you with it either."


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Great advice twin.

Sorry for the spot you are in alpha...especially about the kids. I hate having to read about sitchs with young kids involved that see the mess but don't understand it.

I am beyond not an expert but have perhaps been dealing with this now longer than you have so the one thing I can say that is great news is, even though you have been taking care of your kids very well already, you will now see your children in an even more beautiful light in coming weeks and months. Treasure that time and make sure and give them literally all the hugs they ask for. They are hurting and don't always know how to express it.


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Thank you both again for the advice. I do feel like I'm slightly coasting at the moment, not making things worse anymore but at the same time not sure if I'm doing enough to make things better. It's hard isn't it? So far being nice to my wife has gotten the best response, even if there's been a lot of other stuff thrown in too. I have just taken the kids back to her. She seemed quite happy to see me. She was the most friendly she's been in fact. Now, I wonder what the reason for this is. She is going on a night out this evening and so is probably happy about that. After not wanting me to mind the kids all week she said I coukd have had them tonight. Clearly this is because she is out tonight. I don't want to be the on call babysitter. I did say, ah well, you should have said' just to be nice but I am not infact minding the kids this evening. The other woman ny wife is going out with this evening is a fellow mum from our kids' school. Previously in better times my wife has pointed out how outrageously flirty this woman is on a night out, despite being married. I am worried she will push W to have fun and meet someone else. Not a lot I can do about that I know. It does seem early in separation for W to meet someone else.

So a mixed result really, W did go and look at another house but pulled a face over how much it would be in rent for what she would get. I can see her taking a while to find the 'perfect' place. Good news as it gives me time to turn things around. I am worried about the nights out though. She was happy it seemed to see me but probably not for the reason I'm hoping.

I did notice her weighing up my new clothing as we chatted, so it is getting noticed. She did ask why the grim face as I left. I said because it's hard to leave the kids in this situation. She said, there's not a lot we can do about that, but said it in a slightly different manner than previous times, no anger, a slight sense I detected of something else. I am not sure what though. She is a stubborn person and I do wonder if she will plough on regardless with the path she has started down even if she has regrets but because she wouldn't want to appear ti have made a mistake. Second guessing is no good, I know.

Finally, I suggested I would take the kids out tomorrow again. She said, yeah, you can. I wonder if she'll come. She played it like I could do what I want but she's not interested. I think she is though, and I think she will come. Let's see. It's maddening wondering whether things are going forwards, backwards, or are static...and not really knowing for sure.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Just making a note in case I forget - my wife's two slogans of the last week or two have been:

You brought all this on yourself (referring to separation/her affair)

No trust, no love, no point.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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Just done a 180. As mentioned earlier wife is on night out tonight. Instead of being anxious and concerned of what she might get up to, which is what she undoubtedly think I'd be thinking, I've just texted her to have a good night out as she deserves it. A quick check at call and text history of this last week shows only 3-4 texts to her (mainly about child arrangements) and only calls have been returning the odd missed call I let go to voicemail. I think wishing her a good night out will come as a surprise. Incidentally I hope she does have a good time...just not too good...if you know what I mean!

Last edited by alpha99; 02/28/15 07:48 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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You actually said "you deserve it???"


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Yes, I did. Do you think that was a bad idea. I hope I was clear to her what I meant. she has been working nights all week and I wanted to mean she deserves a nice night out. I am worried I wasn't clear now. Not sleeping here tonight as I have been (2.25am as I write). It is a major worry she will meet someone whilst out. I may be biased but my wife is gorgeous. When she gets dressed ho for nights out she looks stunning. She always insists she never gets attention on girly nights out but I find that hard to believe because she dies look amazing. Being 'single' as she says she is at this point worries me she will take up some of this attention...as she has done previously with the A. She has said in recent weeks she would never just meet someone and sleep with them, that the A happened because of months of flirting at work, but at the same time she did mention the possibility 'in the future' of meeting someone else on a night out, getting to know them afterwards on dates etc and starting to see them. She said she has no plans to do that now but alcohol and dancing do strange things, right?


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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Yes, I think it was a horrible idea. She's out there projecting herself as a single woman, practically TELLING you she's going to cheat (again), and you're saying "have a good time -- you deserve it."

I'm speechless. crazy


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Right, well I won't make that mistake again. I suppose there's nothing I can do about that now. If I do see her today I won't mention the night out or ask her how it went.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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I have been GAL-ing recently, although maybe I've not expressed that in previous posts. I've just got back from the gym, that's 6 times in 2 weeks now. I have also started playing guitar again, and I've made arrangement to meet friends for the first time since split. I have been out for a family meal with parents and sisters, and I have spent time alone with my children. I feel infinitely better in just the space of a few short weeks. Of course there's a gnawing feeling inside because of the situation but it is starting to feel a manageable pain rather than an all encompassing one, as it was in the first few weeks since split.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
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T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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W just called. She wanted to know if I still wanted to take children out. I said yes but not sure what time. She said she had things to do. I said I'd let her know in 30 minutes exactly what time. W called back 10 minutes later demanding to know what I was doing and told me I would have to leave taking the kids out as she had things to do and would be out for hours. In the previous sentence she said all she had to do was go to the supermarket. She is clearly on a power trip at the moment. I didn't respond negatively, as hard as it was not to, but just said, ok, that's fine. Have a nice afternoon. It's really sad not to see my children today but I guess once the novelty of her looking after them all the time wears off and her parents get tired of helping out then things will change. It does feel a bit of a blow though as the kids would have enjoyed an afternoon at the fair and now they will just get to go to a supermarket.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Affairs are fueled by entitlement, and unfortunately your "have a good time, you deserve it" comment yesterday only threw more fuel on those ugly flames.

You should have posted "I didn't respond rudely, but I calmly told her that 30 minutes is not an unreasonable amount of time to ask for to get back to her, and in any event I didn't appreciate her speaking to me so rudely. "

Crap behavior is crap behavior, and you need to call her on it. Otherwise, she's going to keep doing it (and maybe worse).

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Thanks for the advice. W has just called asking if I wanted to take kids out after all. I said yes. She said she might do extra work tonight and I should be having them at least once a week over night. To this point she has bot wanted me to have them but now she might be working all of a sudden she does. Based on your post above I'm considering calling back and saying the weather is bad, I'm busy, and I can't have them. I'm not sure really what to do.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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M: 4.5yrs
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Alpha, it's high time you stood up to your wife and I'll be the first and loudest one advocating it. But logistics about your KIDS isn't the first (ever?) hill you want to fight on.

"Of course, you know I love spending as much time with them as possible. For their stability and sense of security, I think you'd agree we should plan out their schedules for the week as far in advance as possible. Maybe you can suggest a schedule going forward and I'll take a look at it?"

Btw, are you sure this is work-related?

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Hi Starksy,

Since your message before quite a lot has happened. I did call my wife back and say that I couldn't mind the children. The reasons I gave was that she has messed me around all day, saying I couldn't have the kids, then I could, then I had to mind them because she wanted to work. I said that I wouldn't be dictated to and be expected to look after the kids at the drop of a hat when she wouldn't let me look after them for the last three weeks. She of course was fuming, saying that she would never ask me for anything ever again, saying that she would take them to school and pick them up all week. Ironically she said she doesn't want to be dictated to by me over when I will help with the kids but as I pointed out to her she was doing exactly that by saying that I wouldn't have to pick the kids up all week. I said that this wasn't fair and I would be picking the kids up at certain times. On the phone she said she was glad that she never took me back as well as saying that I could f*ck off etc. When I said that I still wanted to see the kids today despite not taking them out tonight she said I could do whatever I wanted, she wasn't interested.

I said I would be up to see the kids in the next 30 minutes. I went up there to see the kids. Her father was watching football on the TV and didn't want me in the living room. I had to stand in the back garden playing with the children in the rain. After about 15 minutes of this I thought it was ridiculous that I'm standing in the back garden in the rain with my kids because they don't want me in the house. I asked my 6 year old son to go and get his mum as I wasn't allowed in the house. She came out and I said I was going because this was ridiculous. She said I could come and stand in the kitchen with the children if I wanted to. I was calm throughout and said I didn't want to, this was ridiculous, and that I was sorry that I visited today. At this point she said she didn't want to be dictated to by me, that she needed to work to earn money for her new house, and that she wasn't earning as much as expected from her new cut down work schedule. I pointed out that this was all her decision, that I wanted to help with the kids, but that I could not be the on call, drop of a hat babysitter whenever she decided last minute to have a change of plans. She was fuming. She can't seem to see things from anything other than I am doing this to stab her in the back and make her suffer point of view.

She has said that in future she will schedule her work around when her parents are able to mind the kids. I said again that I would mind them but I needed a bit more notice. She said she'd never ask me for anything again. My son was crying as I left because he didn't want me to go and he was happy playing with me. I feel bad about that and I don't ever want to upset my children. I do think you are right though, that I need to set some boundaries with my wife. I cannot be just someone who is a phone call away from doing whatever suits her. She wouldn't let me take them earlier in the week because she thought I might not bring them back. Now that she has planned night outs and extra work all of a sudden I am their dad and I must have them tonight because she has to work.

So things have taken a turn for the worse today. I think that there will be some short term fall out from this. Hopefully nothing too bad that I can recover from. Her current very angry personality means that any action at all taken by myself that does not comply with her wishes is an attempt to 'stab her in the back'. She accused me of recording the whole conversation on my phone. I showed her that my phone battery had died. She accused me of being too calm and couldn't understand why I wasn't fighting for the kids. Again, I explained that fighting wouldn't solve our problems. Finally, she claimed that I had been taking advice from my parents (particularly my father who she really doesn't like) and that I had a secret motive for being so calm since in the past when we have argued months ago I had said that I would make sure that I had the kids should we split because I was better at looking after them. This does ring true because upon picking the kids up this week for school they haven't been washed properly, had sleep in their eyes, said they were hungry, and also not worn appropriate clothing for the winter weather we're having here.

I am thinking of sending a text to her just to clarify my position now that a few hours have passed by. The message would be along the lines of 'Hi W, I just want to say that of course I would mind the kids and help you out wherever possible with them. You had messed me around today over child arrangements and I can't look after them last minute at the drop of a hat...or words to that effect.

What do you all think? Is this a wise move. I can imagine her reply back with a short, swift text of abuse but I would like it to be known that I am not abandoning my kids or whatever else of this ridiculous nature she might currently think. Isn't it amazing how someone you love, and who has loved you for so long, can behave in such a way?

Fortunately I have read about 180s and not to believe all of what they say and half of what they do. It did really hurt when my wife said on the phone earlier that she was so glad that she didn't take me back. Having done some reading though I have learnt not to take this to heart. She is just angry. I love my wife and kids and I have the stamina to work on this for however long it takes to hopefully turn things around.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Wow, things are moving quickly. Wife has just called and asked if I could come and collect her so she could go through our things and decide what she wants to take with her to her parents' house and then on to her own new rented place once she gets one. I start out to go and get her, and then she calls to say not to bother as her mother won't mind the kids. So I've come home again. I don't want to sell the house but I can't afford to live there alone either.

Edit to Starksy: Yes, I am sure that this was a genuine work related issue. I have no idea if my wife is still continuing on with the OM but I do know that she has worked all week and is staying with her parents, has had the children and so doing anything else would have been a struggle. She was out last night with a mum from the school and who knows what she got up to then, but I am not going to speculate on that as it's not healthy is it.

Last edited by alpha99; 03/01/15 06:15 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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I've just read the first 140 pages this evening of DR, which came today. I plan on reading the rest of the book tomorrow and re-reading various key sections. I like the more systematic approach to DR over DB, though both books are excellent. I'm actually looking forward to the week ahead now as I've arranged to go out with friends, play some golf at the weekend, and join a language group. I will try and take my children out for tea one day this week and maybe even go bowling with them. If my wife wants to come then great but if not that's fine too. I am.starting to get my old self back. For sure there will be good and bad days (today has been a bad day) but I will get on with living, try some techniques, more 180s, start LRT again now I have a better understanding of it. There have been some successes this week mixed in with all the turmoil: W was nicer yesterday, has asked about my day once or twice, has waved goodbye to me once or twice as I've left etc. If course there's been downsides too but I do think although she seems to be ploughing on regardless maybe the reality if her situation is beginnging to hit home. Her folks wouldn't mind kids this evening, I woukdnt due to her behaviour today, so right now she'll be sat alone with the kids in bed. I did text to apologise about being a jerk over not having the kids. I also expressed how I felt she had messed me about, but said at the time I knew she'd been working hard and was tired from that etc.

A good way to end the day, feeling positive having read half of DR, ready to try something new and different tomorrow.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Alpha -

I think you need to pick some boundaries to enforce with your W and stick with them. If you waiver, even on the smallest thing or change you have made, you are back at square one.

Most women want a Man - someone that is independent and probably wouldn't put up with any of the crap she's throwing at you.

I think you and W need to have a business like interaction of a plan regarding a set schedule for who has the kids when - and then you can really focus on yourself, your kids and GAL. You sound very thrown based on your interactions with your W (i know it's hard I have been there and wished i would have followed this advice sooner). I really think you'll feel better once you stopped getting pulled into her behavior whether it be good or bad.

And.. Remember even if she's noce or waives or whatever --- she may have just been texting OM. Yes be nice to her but treat her like a friendly neighbor. She doesn't get to cake eat.

I'm not a vet so hopefully others will chime in to help you out I just can tell by some of your posts that your W is walking all over you right now.


M 31 H 34
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Hi T,

Thanks for the comments. I think you're spot on. I think in trying to be nice I have come across as weak and W has exploited that. Maybe the children was the wrong topic to take a first stand on but here's what has happened. I read in DR just last evening, after all if this child arrangement argument went on, that if you stop more of the same behaviour, in my case maybe being too nice and walking on egg shells, you might see your W initially get angry. Well, as I've written earlier that's exactl what happened. However, she has just called (6am here, a little early) to say hee father will take the kids to school and if I want to pick them up this afternoon, see them for a bit, and take them back to her folks, then that's fine. A bit of a turn around from yesterday evening when she said she'd take them to and from school all week and I woukdnt be needed. I know her father is off work today and so could have done both school runs. Hopefully, and I might be wrong here, but setting a boundary on not being messed about over when I have the kids might have had an affect. As I said earlier, I did send a conciliatory text to apologise but also outlined how although things are hard for her having to work and look after the kids I did feel.messed around. I think this is a positive step.

My wife is now off work for about 5-6 days. No doubt her urgency to decorate our house so it's in a position to be sold is going to fill that time. I am going to arrange my next coaching session in the next day or so to cope with this and just check that Im doing things right. Having read DR up to taking stock yesterday, I do feel all the useful advice, the thing that stands out in my situation is LRT. We are physically separated. I am GAL-ing. I think I need to continue this, setting a few boundaries, and see what happens. I've barely called or texted W this past week. She has called me far more often, although each time has been business like without a hint really of concern for me. There has been some moments of that in our faxe to face meetings. I think a week is too short a time to have gotten the results I want. I can see some change so I need to be patient. My wife diesnt know about my planned activities for the week yet. In taking the kids to her later I will outline them during the course of setting my availability to see the kids. I hope that's a good strategy.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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I do feel more positive today. My wife has called once and wants me to now pick up the children because she has a house viewing appointment. She called a second time but I missed the call - and didn't call back. I don't mind getting the kids at all of course because I love my children dearly. I will take them back to hers and not initiate any conversation with her. I won't stay too long, and at the same time I am going to lay out my schedule for the rest of the week, when I will be able to look after the kids, and when I won't due to my new, other commitments.

I have an evening out with friends planned for tomorrow, I've been in touch about the language group to see how it operates, and I've arranged a golf game at the weekend. I am thinking of signing up to an unlimited cinema pass so that I can go to the cinema whenever I want (it would be the evenings after seeing the kids) so that I am not sat alone thinking things over endlessly.

I am going to see about taking the children out for tea one evening this week and maybe some bowling. I know that I mentioned this earlier. However, on previous occasions where this has cropped up I have also said to my wife she is welcome to come if she wants to. Well, no more! It's 180 time! This time I am not going to invite her. After breaking down momentarily one day last week at her parents' house when just the two of us were talking, I'm sure she still feels that although I have changed clothes, attitude etc that this is all an act and that in her own words 'I will try anything to weasel my way back'. I think maybe she sees the invitation as me still being slightly needy. Well, she may think that but the fact is that at the moment, although I do love her dearly, she has hurt me so badly that I would rather have some time alone and/or just with the kids to let the dust settle, be with my kids to have fun with them, and see if things change. This is going to be weeks and months, no short term solution on the horizon here.

She is moving on like a freight train regarding the house. She wanted a decision over the phone there and then this morning as to whether I wanted to buy her out or sell the house. I said I couldn't possibly decide over the phone and would need time to think about things. She wants her uncle to start decorating later this week. I think I am just going to go with it, let them decorate and get as much for the house as possible. At the end of the day it's just a house. I will come out of it with quite a bit of money and I can start to do more of the things I've been putting off over the years.

I'm off to re-read some of DR with the intention of implementing LRT from now on. The idea of it has already made me feel better, and I think detaching myself from her will also make me feel even better. I do hope things work out for the best in the end but I am not going to be a prisoner to the idea that it will any longer.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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Well, LRT has been implemented! I picked the kids up from school, dropped them off, stayed about 15 minutes (shorter than normal), laid out my availability for the week regarding the kids, and then left.

Outcome: no arguing, W looked momentarily perplexed when I said I had plans tues, thurs, Sunday this week. I took advice from here and treated her like a neighbour. I was pleasant, upbeat, and chose myself when to leave. I overheard a phonecall she received where it was clear she was going out tonight with friends. I didn't ask any questions though. She did say, oh you're going already. I said a plesant but brisk goodbye, have a nice evening, and was on my way.

Let's keep this up. No argument during meeting is good. Kids were happy to play with me. I'll take them out later in the week for tea etc. I won't invite my wife. I feel quite happy with myself right now. I'm toughening up and getting on with things. It's been one month this week since we split. I wonder where we'll be one month from now. I've set some goals after reading DR last night so let's see what happens.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Excellent job, Alpha. My only caution to you here would be to let you know this is going to take a LOT of effort to build these new "muscles" (habits) into the new-and-improved Alpha, and there WILL be setbacks along the way. Some unforced errors as the "old Alpha" rears his emotional and reactionary head, and definitely some further testing and button-pushing by your wife.

Give this time, and BE CONSISTENT. And measure your success by the longer-term trend and not by every single day, and you WILL see success, of that I'm certain.

It's what "loving detachment" looks like. Feels good, doesn't it?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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You notice sth? The more you discuss with her, the more things you do that are against DB, the faster she runs.
Step back, take a breath and detach from her. Don't do any serious talk with her right now, it's only going to hurt you.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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I will be leaving soon to pick the kids Io for school. I'm leaving a little later today so that I just pick them up at the door without the awkward 10-15 minutes of sitting around in her parents' house until it's time to go. I'm going to be pleasant and upbeat (my wife has insisted on a few occasions this last week that when I've been upbeat and positive that I have a smug look on my face. She cant understand why I appear so happy) and not make conversation. Looking back, as much as I've have tried to step back in recent days, each positive action has been met with a negative one: I don't engage in conversation but I pick my wife up in the car, I plan to take the kids out but invite her too, I don't argue with her or answer back but then I take her mail to her. I have to be more focused from now on to completely cut out pursuing behaviour, no matter how small or inconsequential it may appear. That's what Im going to do from now on.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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Well, another successful interaction. When I went to get the kids W did not quite have them ready. I had to go in the house for a few minutes. MIL was there and we made pleasant small talk. W gave me a funny glance as I was upbeat and smiling. I just smiled back at her. Once again I noticed she was definitely weighing me up in terms of clothes and attitude. At one point she brushed past me and I know that she smelt my new aftershave (previously I never wore any), and I coukd see her brain thinking things over for a moment once again. She hasn't verbalised anything really about it in the last day or two but if I'm looking for baby steps, little steps forward, then the arguments have stopped, W showing signs of calming down, being more co-operative since I've stopped being the on call doormat.

As I was writing the last paragraph, W just called asking can I meet her for a new key to be cut for our house. When we first split she demanded I gave her my key back, which I did. My parents had a spare key. W, being unorganized as she is, appears to have lost both her own key and my key. Now only I have access to the house. I told her on the phone that I was going out soon and coukdbt meet her. She didn't complain. She asked again what days I was busy this week, so I told her. She said she'd pick the kids up today from school. I said I wanted to see them. She mentioned how I didn't really see them yesterday due to my shortened visit. I just said I want to see them for a bit today and could have them tomorrow if she liked as I would like to take them out. She said she was off work all weekband didn't need my help and that she didn't know what she was doing tomorrow. She doesn't have any plans as far as I know and was just being a little awkward. I just said let me know with some notice. The dynamics of our current relationship are definitely starting to shift as I show her I'm not the on call run around push over she thought I would be. At the moment I still see her ploughing ahead decorating, selling the house, and moving into rented accomodation. I do see some changes in attitude from her though. The key is consistency, I know.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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You need to get a parenting plan I'm place and cut out the daily back and forth about childcare.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Yes twinmom, you're right. I will arrange my next coaching session later today as I'm unsure about what to do for the best with the children. I can see my son's behaviour slightly worsening (he's 6) due to the fact he is allowed more freedom where he is and clearly isn't told off as he would be if I were there. I love my children enormously of course and want to see them every day. However I also understand the need to take a step back at the moment. How do I balance the need to see my children each day with doing LRT with my wife. I can pick them up/drop them off each day and just be in and out with them, but then my W does what she has today and says she will pick them up. A childcare plan would be a good idea but I don't like the though of only seeing the children 3 or 4 days a week.

Last edited by alpha99; 03/03/15 01:57 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
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A noticeable shift in attitude, W has just called asking for a favour: she now wants me to pick the kids up. She offered to give me petrol money for doing so. Maybe to justify me picking the kids up but she said, oh didn't you say you were coming up for an hour to see the kids. We also settled some outstanding finance issues, i.e. money she owes me. It was quite a pleasant conversation, a distinct lack of animosity from her.

I'm not getting too excited. She may just be being nice because it's quite a trek on 4 buses (2 there, 2 back) should she pick the kids up. Even so though, she has been spiteful right up until a few days ago so maybe there is a slight softening of her attitude. She asked about the house again. I said I want to sell it. She said it may take a long time as it needs quite a bit of work doing on it (I don't think myself but I'm not going to disagree to dragging the sale out).

Let's see how an hour in her folks' house goes. I will mention taking the kids out tomorrow again...but I won't invite her.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Another productive interaction. Took kids back to W, she tried on a few occasions to instigate day to day conversation. I answered politely but didn't really expand on the conversation. She barely left the room as opposed to recent times where when I've been there she's barely been in the room. At one point when I was playing dominoes with the children she came over for no particular reason and stood next to me at the table. She told me about her day, mentioned about an old friend of ours etc. It was at this point where there was on moment of her narkiness. She said I was looking straight through her like she was a piece if sh*t. I just passed it off as I didn't hear her properly. Her parents came home, I left, and just said have a nice evening, goodbye.

Oh I forgot, at one point she volunteered to go to the cash machine and get some of the money she owes me. It was almost a pleasant experience but I was on my guard not to be lulled into a false sense of security. I played it cool.

Finally, I mentioned my intention to take the kids out tomorrow. She said, yeah, you can if you like...but in an indifferent way rather than sarcastic. I don't think she has any plans tomorrow, I didn't invite her, she seems slightly curious about all my sudden plans and social engagements etc, so it'll be interesting if she cooks up some reason why she might come along. She did ask about my going
out briefly this evening but I just glossed over it. I think already the LRT might be having an effect. I just need to keep this up. It's hard to know what is genuine from her, what is button pushing etc and when to follow up something that's said and when not to. I suppose it's well to early to probe further just because of a couple of semi pleasant interactions.

Last edited by alpha99; 03/03/15 05:47 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
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OK, here comes the crazy:

W called me earlier this evening, apparently it's got too crowded at her parents' place. She now wants me to move out of our house so she can move back in whilst she finds somewhere else to live. Oh but wait, there's more: she wants me to give her my key back so I don't have access to my own house and so I 'won't be in and out every two minutes hassling her'

I initially agreed to moving to my parents' as they live in the same street, but I won't agree to handing back a key...again. she flipped her lid, shouted abuse down the phone along the lines of 'you want to march round like you own the place, cock of the walk'. Well, I do own the place (with her), would want to see my kids each day, and woukdnt bother her. It is highly likely friction with her mum has caused this...

Any thoughts on what I should do?


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Stay put and stop taking to her, lol
Seriously......
Tell her you are not moving out. If she wants to live there that is fine but some boundaries need to be put in place.

GET A PARENTING PLAN IN PLACE!!

This is going to suck and hurt but you NEED to accept it, you will not be able to see your kids every day.

Work out a schedule, put it in writing and do NOT deviate unless necessary. Don't take the daily calls from her. If it's an emergency she WILL leave a message. Let her call/text all day then send her one text at night answering things that warrant a response and the things that don't just ignore them.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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What Twinmom said. ^^^

I'll also predict it'll take you about 30 days of fighting tooth and nail with your entitled wife (and with us occasionally) before you finally "get" this fully and do it.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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OK, thanks for the advice.

I am not sure of the right thing to do here. Hopefully I'm a quick learner. Any predictions on what the outcome would be should I follow your advice regarding staying put. Obviously in the short term my wife will be fuming but won't this just drive hee away quicker. I know she's acting unreasonably but if she comes back home I will be in the same street as her/kids.

Another thing to mention is my wife very unusually bought tickets to a premier league football game for here in the UK. Her father has an association with the club and can get tickets himself so it is very odd she bought them. A few weeks ago she asked whether such and such would be a good game. She paid for the tickets. There was also a football shirt in our house that she'd bought which she said was for a work colleague and that her F was going to get signed and pass back for charity. It made me think, why didn't the work colleague buy it herself? Why did W buy tickets for her F when he can get his own free tickets directly? Ofncourse it made me think both are for OM. I did confront wife over this about 2-3 week's ago. She gave reasons listed above. The game in question is this evening. I wonder if it coincides with her argument with parents. She would need someone to mind kids again to go to the game, she went out 2 nights ago, and my guess is they may have said enough is enough prompting her call to me. Of course I coukd be way off but it's just laying here in bed that all this information has come together in my mind.

I feel confused. I've arranged another coaching session but it is almost a week ffom now. I'm not sure what to do at the moment.

Thanks for your continuing advice guys.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 399
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Maybe whilst I'm here I should ask:

Only her parents, cousin, my parents, sister know about her affair. If the football thing turns out to be OM related how wise do you think it would be to expose her A to her employer? I could see it could have damaging consequences in the short term but it may spell the beginning of the end for A...which she insisted was over about 3 weeks ago (same time roughly it was confirmed/she admitted it...coincidence?).

Last edited by alpha99; 03/04/15 03:19 AM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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I can tell you what the outcome will be if you don't follow the advice here......
Your wife will walk all over you.

I was a slow learner.... wanted to "nice" my husband back..... ummmmmmm nope!

Listen to the advice you are given!!!

It doesn't matter if your wife is at a soccer game tonight with OM. She hasn't promised no contact, coming back to the marriage and working on things with you. You ACT as if she were still in an active affair until she promises those things and you have Intel to prove no contact.

Right now you need to let her do her thing. I know how hard that is. I have been there! Just one year ago my H was moving in with OW and taking my kids there 3 days/2 nights a week.

Don't make the same mistakes I made, understand these are her mistakes to make.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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And more times than not exposing the affair at work does nothing (been there done that, thought it would help but nope!)


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Great advice twinmom, I hadn't thought of things like that but now you say it, it does make sense. I won't be moving out, and I will tell her that later today. I won't expose her affair at work either. I haven't until now and I did think it would make reconciliation more difficult in the future if I did.

She had said it was over when she admitted affair. Of course she's done a lot of lying recently. Just two days prior to confronting her she was talking about going out for breakfast with OM after night shifts at work as friends...said we were separated and it didn't matter what I thought. So the turnaround in two days is probably not believable, I guess.

So, no moving out, little contact (ignore calls, texts etc), no asking about OM right now, continue LRT.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Picked kids up at the door today. W just got in the car and said she needed to go to school and would come with me. I said I wasn't happy that she just assumed she could go with me. She asked why I was being so narky with her, why she couldn't just come with me as she had done recently. She wanted me to go and get a new key cut for her. I said I had plans. She complained that I didn't even have five minutes for her. I said I had plans, she'd given me no notice, and I couldnt just drop things for her, would get a key cut another day. She asked again what days I would available this week. I told her I was very busy. In the next week I have five days where I'm doing something. She didn't believe me that I was actually doing things as previously my friends only go out once every blue moon. I do actually have plans though as I've been GAL. She seemed quite shocked and in disbelief as I said. She asked if I had a good night last night when I was out. There was no reference made to last night's phone call regarding the house. She did say I was being an @rse because of my attitude this morning. I didn't shout or really answer back but was more inclined than recently to stand up for myself. When she asked why I was so busy, I said 'like you said, we are separated and so my plans aren't really any if your business'. She said, fine, you can do and see who you like cos I don't care. Her tone of voice showed clearly that wasn't true. I think it is slowly dawning on her that I'm not going to chase her anymore and I am actually getting on with things.

Finally, I outlined to the kids what we'd do this evening. W heard this of course. She tried to set a time I would have them back for. I said I'd have them back when I was ready. Agreed to text her when heading back. Definitely I have more power than previously at the moment thanks to standing up for myself more. I get the feeling she may be starting to wonder why I'm not chasing her, crying etc, and I also get the feeling that she thinks I'm seeing someone else...which I'm not.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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And again I need to stress the parenting plan! Then your wife will know what time you will be back with the kids and you can avoid this interaction because you don't want to come off as controlling just not a doormat.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Good advice, twinmom. Thank you for helping me see the other side of things. I don't want to be controlling or a doormat and it is hard finding a middle ground. 6pm was mentioned as a time but I said it might not be bang on that time. You're right though of course, I'm going to have a look at my work and comottments over the next week and let her know them so things are set.

Do you have any idea in general how long this phase may last. I know that's an impossible question. The fear of course is pushing W further away. Some things seem counterintuitive. I wonder once things are in place like a parenting plan and little contact/interaction, how long it will be before the next chapter begins...hopefully where she initiates contact and becomes curious. I see signs of that now but things tend to blend into one another and it is difficult to tell where I am sometimes. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and not the minutae of everything but again that's so difficult when you're the one living through it. I would say things are better than a week ago though, so I guess that's progress.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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Alpha, no one can give you a timeline. BUT I can promise you as long as you are in a tug of war with your wife you won't be able to progress forward.
The conflict should not come from you but from natural consequences of her actions and (most likely OM)

Let the "parenting plan" be the bad guy when she wants you to do an extra pick up/drop off from school.

Neighborly nice, trust me it was impossible for me some days,


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Originally Posted By: twinmom
And again I need to stress the parenting plan! Then your wife will know what time you will be back with the kids and you can avoid this interaction because you don't want to come off as controlling just not a doormat.



x 2.



This will be best for all concerned, INCLUDING your kids. In the meantime, you should give her a time when it's regarding the children.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Alpha, you're looking for timelines and guarantees. No one can give those to you. YES, DB'ing IS COUNTER-INTUITIVE! Have you read the books? Twice? Gone over Sandi's 37 Rules again? A LOT of it is counterintuitive, but let's face it -- our "intuitive" button wasn't working right or we wouldn't have landed on this sad beach to begin with, right?

The sooner you accept the precepts and keep on applying them -- CONSISTENTLY -- the better off you and your kids will be. No, Michele's concepts are not guaranteed to work -- no marital author's stuff is. Adults have free wills, and by the time people land here (or seek out ANY marital repair/affair-busting program out there) there is already a LOT of dysfunction going on in the marriage. I'd estimate the success rate of these programs are probably 25-35%, to be perfectly honest.

But I'd put them at 0-10% when people do nothing, or merely continue in their old ways.

The GOOD news is, when the principles are applied, even if you only have a 25-35% success rate, I've seen about a 75-90% success rate for people improving themselves, and becoming stronger, more emotionally healthy, more interesting people and potential future spouses if they're current marriage doesn't work out (and even those, something like 20% of divorced couples re-marry, with VERY high percentages reporting that the new marriage is FAR better than the old one!).

Hang in there,

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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This evening has been quite a bit of fun but at the same time very hard emotionally. I have been out with the children. We had a good time. My mother came, she is not very bright, and was more harm than help. Anyway, I took the children back and my wife just turned up at the house at the same time. She was smiling and trying to be overly nice with me. I wasn't in a very good mood. I didn't shout or anything but I didn't want to speak to her. She stepped outside with me onto the front step to ask why I was behaving so. I just said there's nothing left to say, mentioned something about the kids, and said goodbye. She tried to continue the conversation by asking about the children, who was picking them up, dropping them off for school etc. She was being strangely nice and I found it very, very annoying.

One thing I have been thinking about is that early December last year my wife went through a spell of being overly nice with me. She would instigate oral sex multiple times a week. At the time it seemed a bit odd that she was overly 'friendly' but I thought little about it. Obviously with hindsight it turns out that she was feeling guilty about what she had been up to. Now, in the last day or two I have posted here about her being nicer to me. I get the same feeling that it is guilt emanating from her. The football match is tonight that she has tickets for. The argument with her folks and desire to move back home probably comes from them not wanting to mind the kids all the time whilst she goes out. I don't know these things for certain and could be wrong, but this has left me in a very foul mood this evening.

I have to work this evening as well, which I don't feel like doing, so it is a crap evening all round. I hope tomorrow is a better day because I have to say that right now, for probably the first time, I have just been thinking to myself that maybe the cheap little tart isn't worth all this hassle and I would be better off just getting things over and done with and proceeding on with divorce myself. I think of her in a clinch with OM and it makes me feel sick. Then I think of our children and the life they may have because of her actions. I do want things to work out I suppose, and I think I'm just having a bad day, but I feel so frustrated it is unbelievable. At the moment I can't stand her and don't want to speak to her. That will probably make detachment a hell of a lot easier.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
She tried to continue the conversation by asking about the children, who was picking them up, dropping them off for school etc. She was being strangely nice and I found it very, very annoying.



PARENTING PLAN. Parenting Plan + Cozi calendar = PEACE


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Just to add to that, I do feel like I need to wind down at the moment. I am worried that I am going to say something to her tomorrow that I might regret. I am hopeful that a good sleep will solve that.

As it stands she said she is going to take the kids to school tomorrow. I will pick them up and drop them off and spend some time with them. It's at this point that I will lay out the groundwork from a sort of timetable regarding the children.

I am going to have to come to terms with the fact that I won't see my children every day, as unbelievably sad and depressing as that is. I have come to terms already that even if things were to work out it would take months in order to do so, and that's if they do. In the mean time I am genuinely moving on in my life and doing lots of new things, dressing different etc, and I have been feeling a lot more in check of my emotions this last week overall. It's just now I'm having a bad spell. Maybe it's the football tickets, maybe it was taking the children out on my own...all I know is that I am really cheesed off with everything right now.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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I'm feeling like utter crap now. I guess this feeling is coming from the realisation that maybe I've been naive in thinking thus far that her affair is over because she said it was. Of course there are things that have pointed to the contrary but I don't know, I just feel sick again right now like I did post separation. It's one thing us not being together, being apart but single, thinking her A was over, but it's another thing to imagine that it is still going on...I feel sick.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
I'm feeling like utter crap now. I guess this feeling is coming from the realisation that maybe I've been naive in thinking thus far that her affair is over because she said it was.



Why in the world would you think that? Your very first post on this forum detailed all KINDS of deceit of hers; why would you trust her now? Trust must be earned.

ALL CHEATERS LIE -- PERIOD.
The sooner you come to that FULL realization, the better.


Starsky, who still uses the "z" version of the spelling, being a Yank and all wink


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I am writing a parenting plan out now. I will be busy all day today working and so won't be answering her calls/texts. I will just drop the kids off and not stay for any period of time this evening. I won't initiate conversation unless child related. From today I am taking a full step back. I do have plans for this evening and so will be busy then too.

I will have to understand that emotions of all types are normal and learn not to respond emotionally all the time. Last night, when I write my last few posts, u felt terrible. I was considering calling her, having a go at hee, callibg her work etc but I'm glad I did none of that. Instead I re-read some of your advice here and watch some if Michelle's videos from YouTube. I have read most of DR and DB now. Some sections ive read several times now.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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All cheaters lie - true.

My WAW says she can't trust me. Oh boy! I don't argue with her.

She's the cheater and the liar but I can't be trusted. Rich!


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Hi Foolish,

I've had the exact same thing. I have written it in earlier posts but again, my wife cheated, and maybe still is, for at least six months, and has the cheek to say I can't be trusted because I looked through her phone records or made some undercover recordings of her spouting out that she would call the police and make up lies about me if I didn't do what she wanted. Unbelievable. Her slogans recently have been 'no love, no trust, no point' and 'you brought this on yourself'. Clearly at the moment she is not taking any responsibility for her actions.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Classic Cheater Spew!


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I'm wondering right now if anyone has advice on how to respond to W saying things like, I'm only trying to be nice etc in our brief interactions. Yesterday we spoke for a minute or two but I didn't really want to speak to her, as I've mentioned in recent posts. Due to this it appears as if I am being the narky one who doesn't want to speak and she seems to take the stance that she is being nice and why can't I do the same? It's not that I'm nasty, it's just that I am trying to detach myself for a bit and so I'm not continuing conversations etc, which she sees as me being distant. I don't want her to be seen as taking the moral high ground, so I'm wondering how I should respond in such a case. So far, as I wrote before, I have said things along the lines of, well, there's nothing left to say. She said yesterday that I have something going on inside my head and she wanted to know what it was. Again, I just said, there's nothing left to say, have a good evening, bye.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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Hi Alpha

I think the best demeanour to aim for is pleasant, breezy, busy, distant...

So, your W shouldn't think that you are being narky - just that you have lots going on in your life and limited time to interact.

From what you're saying, you may want to 'up' the pleasantness - ie: not refusing to speak, but being the one to break off the convo first as you have something else on etc.


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Toots,

Thanks for your input. After some reflection this morning I guess you are right. It is a fine balance between detaching and being cold, angry etc as it says in DR. I don't want to be overly friendly at the moment but I as I wrote before I don't want to be seen as being the angry, distant one who doesn't want to talk/communicate at all.

W has texted me twice already this morning. It is now 7.30am here. Once was about childcare arrangements, and the other time was a picture message of my son's tooth that has fallen out. I have not yet replied to the messages. I am going to give it some time so it doesn't appear as if I am sat by the phone waiting for her to call/text etc. I don't think I will be seeing my children today which is such a shame. I do think the LRT is having some affect already though.

If we go back a week wife was being incredibly nasty to me on various occasions. I have taken a stand or two since and she now appears to have understood that I won't be walked all over from now on. She has also started to be more polite to me for the most part, although not all the time. I mentioned possible reasons for this a few posts ago.

I am going to try and walk the fine line between being pleasant but being busy/distant and ending conversations first, leaving before I really have to, for the next short period and see what happens. As I've written, I do get the sense that she is starting to soften slightly. I don't think there is any remorse or regret about anything she has done yet, and certainly no sudden change of heart, but then maybe there hasn't been the time for her to reflect upon exactly what she has done/is doing just yet.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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A say day today:

I woke up this morning and noticed that I wasn't wearing my wedding ring. I had been thinking about whether to wear it or not recently considering my situation. However, the reason I don't have it on is not marriage related.

I have lost around 50lbs over the course of the last year. The stress involved in our separation has meant that in the last few weeks 20 of those 50lbs have come off. This had made my wedding ring quite loose. It did fall off a few days ago when I was at MIL's house dropping the kids off. At that time I noticed it fall off and picked it up off the floor. It would appear that the same thing has happened again, only this time I don't know where and when. I went bowling with the kids last night and had it on then. I seem to remember having it on still when I came home later in the evening, but I don't know for sure. I have had a good look all over the house in the usual places where I might leave it, if say I was having a shower etc. It's not in any of them. So it would appear that it has fallen off somewhere outside. It does seem like a sign. I've hardly taken it off since we got married and within a month of things going pear shaped I've lost it. I am devastated, not just from a financial point of view, because it was worth quite a bit of money, but also of course from a sentimental point of view. Whatever happens in the future regarding my W and M, I did plan on having that ring forever. I rarely lose anything and so to lose my wedding ring is sickening for me. I'm gutted. Maybe it will turn up in some unexpected place but I'm not holding my breathe.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
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Oh no, I'm so sorry...

Have you tried you car? Or maybe someone handed it in at the bowling alley?


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
I'm wondering right now if anyone has advice on how to respond to W saying things like, I'm only trying to be nice etc in our brief interactions. Yesterday we spoke for a minute or two but I didn't really want to speak to her, as I've mentioned in recent posts. Due to this it appears as if I am being the narky one who doesn't want to speak and she seems to take the stance that she is being nice and why can't I do the same? It's not that I'm nasty, it's just that I am trying to detach myself for a bit and so I'm not continuing conversations etc, which she sees as me being distant. I don't want her to be seen as taking the moral high ground, so I'm wondering how I should respond in such a case. So far, as I wrote before, I have said things along the lines of, well, there's nothing left to say. She said yesterday that I have something going on inside my head and she wanted to know what it was. Again, I just said, there's nothing left to say, have a good evening, bye.


"I'm sorry you feel that way."


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Oh gosh, I'm so sorry. I hope it turns up!!!


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Well, I have just dropped the kids off and come home. I was much more business like today. I only stayed for five minutes. W said goodbye as I went, briefly discussed pick up/drop off for tomorrow regarding the children. There is no animosity from her now, just nothing much in the way of kindess or affection either of course. Well, at least I seemed to have stopped the rot. I didnt' get the chance to go over the parenting plan but it is Friday tomorrow so I am sure there will be chance to do that before Monday comes.

We seemed to have plateaued at the moment. Things haven't gotten any worse in the last few days really. Granted, I have felt awful privately but the situation doesn't appear to have gotten worse. On the other hand, there hasn't been much improvement. I suppose it depends on how I look at it. No arguments really, that's a big tick. I have managed to back off and detach quite a bit. W does seem to have a safety net as long as she is living with her parents. She said that she was going to show me as we split how good she would be as a mum on her own because previously she was pretty bad and I was always the one spending time with the kids. Well, I can report that her parenting style hasn't changed and most of the brief time that I'm there she doesn't seem that bothered by looking after the children. I think if she does move into a new place of her own then things may suddenly hit home that she will be alone. W is 28. OM she is/was having affair with is apparently something like 43. I can't see him being interested in two young children being around all the time. My son as it happens is one of the most talkative little boys you are ever going to meet. He is incredibly hard work because he is so inquisitive and loves to talk constantly. W has suffered previously with that.

So, losing the ring aside, today has been OK. I have got back to work again today for the first time in about a month. Luckily being self employed that hasn't been a problem, and the company I do work with have been incredibly understanding. It is good to be back working and earning money again. We did have flights booked for a foreign holiday in early April. If I can afford it then I would love to take the kids on it still. W hasn't been granted all her holiday requests so she wouldn't be able to go anyway smile

I wonder what the next phase will be. We've had the madness, the crying, the doing all the wrong things, then we've had some 180s from myself, LRT has been implemented, cutting down contact to bare minimum. As I've said, that has stopped things from getting worse but the last few days appear to have stagnated things. I wonder how things will go next. I know time moves slowly and we are all hoping for quicker positive changes in our situation. I haven't written in my solutions journal for a day or so now because I've been so busy, so I must do that tonight, and have a review of what I've written over the last week at the same time.

This evening I am going to re-read DB or DR again to make sure I am not missing things from the first proper read through.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
ME: 31
W: 28
T: 10yrs
M: 4.5yrs
D:5, S:6
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I have a coaching session booked with Amanda for next Tuesday. I'm a little stuck at the moment as my last post suggests. Ah this thing can drive you mad. Although things aren't getting worse I do feel like the reduced face to face contact has made our interactions less pleasant than a few days ago. Being less friendly may have stopped wife being pushy but only a few days ago she was asking questions about what I was doing, seemed intrigued. Today she didn't seem to care if I was there or not. Maybe more time is needed. I have listened to all your advice. I feel like I'm doing well personally. Reduced time with kids is hard though. I suppose I have to give this more time...but.I'm caught between how to proceed.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
I have listened to all your advice. I feel like I'm doing well personally. Reduced time with kids is hard though. I suppose I have to give this more time...but.I'm caught between how to proceed.



I think you do know how to proceed (it's basically above, and it's what you've been doing, plus maybe adding Toots' last post about being more breezy and upbeat). You're just not giving it enough time.

There's a reason why we always say around here that "this is a marathon, not a sprint." It takes tiiiiiiiiiime.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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W has a few days at work from tonight onwards. That might make little contact easier. I'm experience 'the fear' right now that stepping back might lead her to get over things quicker. I know since I've read the books this is what I need to do at the moment. It's so damn hard. No so much not getting in touch, just wondering how things will.pan out following this. I know detaching is for myself as much as anything, and I am GAL, but of course missing your family is natural. I won't let this show in my interactions, I'm using my posts as a way to get out my feelings, but I feel strange imaging w living life with ny kids and im not there.

Edit: thanks starksy, just saw your post...your advice and help is.much appreciated...I know you're right, and I'm doing the right things I guess based on yours and others experience...Im just really tired at mo, and lonely, and a little sad.

Last edited by alpha99; 03/05/15 07:47 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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Believe it or not, I do understand, Alpha. Remember, I went through all of this too, and I STILL get triggers every now and again, almost 8 years later! frown A certain song on the radio, maybe driving by where OM lived or where the divorce mediator we went to is. It's horrible to go thru this stuff, but it DOES get better!


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Hmm Ive found I can't listen to certain music at the moment, if certain places we've been to.come on tv I have to turn it off, pass by places where we've had fun times and I get upset still. I cried on my own this afternoon. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to advise me, it is very much appreciated.


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You're welcome. I know I bust your b*lls a lot, but I really AM pulling for you guys!!!

STRENGTH and HONOR,

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I mentioned earlier today, on the previous page, how W sent me a picture message of my son's tooth having fallen out this morning. I'm just highlighting this for myself now so I can think about this. this is the first time she has sent me a picture message in a long, long time...maybe even ever. So if I was looking for positives on an otherwise rollercoaster day then maybe this was one. I will add this to my journal now. I wonder whether I should have replied to that message earlier. I have sent one text today, and that was school related, but have made no reference to the tooth at all to my wife. Still finding the middle ground but I need to bit a little more upbeat and positive, act as if more than I have been the last day or two, whilst maintaining distance, keeping low contact. THIS IS GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME!


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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My advice...... call you son and talk to him. Your wife didn't lose a tooth, your son did. Call, ask to speak to him and congratulate him. Ask if he is excited for the tooth fairy to come tonight. Then tomorrow morning call and tell him the tooth fairy came to your house too and left him a small gift.
You don't need to talk to your wife at all.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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great advice twinmom, I just wouldn't have thought of that on my own. I have been finding it hard coming to terms with how I can reconcile not speaking to my wife much without withdrawing from my children. In the few minutes I spent with the kids today I did mention his tooth to him, and he said the tooth fairy will come tonight. I will take him a little gift tomorrow from 'the tooth fairy'. Thank you, that's a great idea.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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I picked the kids up this morning. W had just got back from work. MIL gets the kids ready. Daughter had sleep in her eye. I mentioned this at the door. W snarls saying she had just got in. I said I know, I'm just saying there's sleep there, that's all. W asks if I am picking kids up. I say yes.
W and I put kids in car, and I leave. No goodbyes etc. She is always pretty narky after working night shifts due to tiredness. I tried to be upbeat and polite. It's hard to see an impact in a few moments together though. I will spend a little time there with the kids tonight, maybe 30 mins at the most, but not initiate conversation with W whilst being happy, polite, upbeat if she talks with me.

I feel slightly caught in a cycle at the moment, like Groundhog day. I'm waiting to see what will happen next.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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Originally Posted By: alpha99
I will spend a little time there with the kids tonight, maybe 30 mins at the most, but not initiate conversation with W whilst being happy, polite, upbeat if she talks with me.


Would you never initiate a conversation with a neighbor -- only give them upbeat and polite replies if they initiated with you?

The only thing DBing says not to initiate is R talks.

"How was work?" or "Did you hear about (some topical event in the news)?"

Be engaging, listen 3x more than you talk, but yeah -- it's okay to initiate, especially since we're working on that Toots' idea about taking the charm up a notch.

Starsky

Last edited by Starsky309; 03/06/15 02:40 PM.

M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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No contact from W since this morning, although she has probably been asleep a lot of the day after working last night. So anyway, thinking of myself for a moment, I have been busy today. I went to the local town centre to meet my sisters, we had a meal out, then I went and did some shopping. This got me thinking about some of the 180s that I have been trying to do this last week or two. I thought it might be a good idea to write them down here so I can review them from time to time. I have written some down in my journal but my things are between houses (mine and my parents') so it may be easier to view things here. Anyway, here goes:

* New aftershave (never wore it before, now I do every day. W has definitely noticed this as I've seen her take note of the smell).

* Use bodywash every day. (again, I rarely used this before...same thing, it has been noticed)

* Shaved more regularly (Would generally has some sort of stubble/beard growth. I'm now shaving every few days and so look a lot smarter).

* New clothes/look. I have been wearing jacket, shirt, tie, and jeans every day for the last 10 days or so. It has been noticed (she accused me originally of going to a solicitor but those accusations have stopped now as of the best part of a week ago).

* No pleading/crying/begging etc. That all stopped probably two weeks ago. Again it was noticed immediately as she thought I was suddenly over her/seeking legal advice etc.

* Wearing glasses - almost the same as above. W had said for a long time how I should go and get my eyes tested because she were frequently tired through working on a computer a lot. I did that about 2 weeks ago now and have been wearing my new glasses since.

* Teeth - like above, I should have gone the dentist a long time ago but didn't for one reason or another. I have recently has a check up and go on Monday for some sort of small procedure. I'm excited about this as my smile (or lack of) had previously made me self conscious. I feel after Monday I will be far more confident in myself and therefore able to smile without hesitation.

* Manning up - after the crying/begging stage I went through a spell of being nice to her (as you may have seen if you've read any other posts in this thread), probably overly nice to the point of being a doormat. She reached a point where she wanted to move back in and have me move out of our house. I said no, and I wouldn't give her my key back to our house either. Since then I have noticed a bit more respect for me on her part.

*LRT/detaching - I have stopped sending texts for the most part (just child related). I am in the waiting stage now to see if she starts to instigate communication. She did send picture message of son's tooth having fallen out yesterday and a thank you text when I forwarded some school correspondance via text but nothing R related.

Today I went out and did some shopping with my sisters. I bought a new pair of jeans, some new shoes, and some golf shoes in preparation for my golf game at the weekend. I am considering signing up to a unlimited cinema pass and going this evening...on my own.

I am just wondering to myself what other 180s I could do. Generally I am feeling a lot better in myself than just a week or two ago. There are still bad moments throughout the days but I am dealing with them better. The waiting/worrying how things go is a problem for me. I am keeping busy to keep that down to a minimum but of course this is my W and family so it's impossible to just simply not think about them at some point or other every day.

In about 40 minutes I will go and get the kids from school, take them back. It is a nice day here and there is a park over the road from MIL's house. I am thinking I might take the kids there for a little bit to spend time with them that isn't me sitting like a lemon in MIL's front room whilst everyone tip toes around pretending I'm not there for the most part.

Weekend plans: Tomorrow daughter goes to ballet. W will have come off night shift and so I will probably take her. I am thinking of going out to the fair in the afternoon since we didn't get to do that last week. W won't be invited but I would be willing to let her come along if she asked. Our last 'family' activity was just over a week ago and at that point she said 'don't get your hopes up just because I've come out with you for tea'. I said, 'I know, we're just out for tea with the kids'. There's been less anger but also less communication over the last week...so good and bad I suppose. I just wish there was less anger and more communication, but I suppose all good things come to those who wait (well, here's hoping anyway).


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Alpha, that's an AWESOME list!! Hopefully you are seeing where most (all?) of these things are things you should have been doing for YOU, anyway.

How are your finances? I ask because women REALLY notice a man's shoes and his smell and his SMILE -- and probably in reverse order. If you can afford it, and once you get the necessary medical part of the dental treatment done, you should look at veneers or at least just getting your teeth whitened. Coffee, wine, cigars (if you do any of those) can really take the white off, and CHICKS DIG WHITE TEETH!

Just a thought,


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Hi Starksy et al,

I didn't see your message earlier about initiating conversation with a neighbour. Now I'm a little confused. I thought the guideline was to minimise contact, GAL, and see if W starts to notice changes, become curious about what I'm up to. Of course it is not a problem to talk to her about every day things but I thought that was the wrong thing to do. Twinmom was suggesting cutting down contact with W to bare minimum, not to discuss anything with her (if I have understood properly). I understand that at some point in the future for things to get better there will have to be some increased communication and starting to get along better but I thought that the idea was to wait and see if she starts to soften, ask what I'm up to etc.

I went there this evening to drop the kids off. I took them to the park over the road from MIL's house. I had a good time with them. W stayed in house because she said she hadn't been up long from bed after working a night shift last night. I passed over kids' school stuff. She said thanks. No R talk of course. She flittered about, upstairs, kitchen, living room briefly. She wasn't nasty in any way, just more indifferent to my presence. I suppose that that is an improvement at least over hating me and shooting her scorn at me, as she has done in the recent past. What I'm trying to get now is how to gauge things for the best. It is so difficult. I have read both DB and DR and the advice, as good as it is, seems to be mainly for people who aren't yet literally 'out the door'. LRT appears to be the main thing in the books for people in my situation where we have physically separated. Maybe I am wrong there, I don't know. I can see how working on myself will have an affect but I'm struggling to understand how to proceed - again, be quiet, patient, hold back, don't make conversation, but be upbeat, polite etc...or initiate conversation about day to day stuff, how are you doing etc, without appearing to chase/pursue but not to mention R.

I seemed to get the best results in terms of pleasantness from her when I was being nice. Of course I've written how this may have backfired because she thought I was soft. Now I'm worried that things have gone a little too far in the opposite direction. I am worried that being quiet but polite, upbeat around her but not really speaking much to her may have yeah, stopped the rot, but has now stagnated things. What do you guys think? Should I continue on or should I try and tweak what I'm doing to add a bit of day to day niceness in there without the crying/pleading/chasing/being overly nice i.e. being a doormat?

oh man, I could scream right now smile

Last edited by alpha99; 03/06/15 07:18 PM.

BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Minimize QUANTITY of contact. But when you *are* in her presence, maximize QUALITY of the conversation, even including initiating general conversation. Just no R talks.

That's a general DBing principle anyway, but I was even referring more to what I thought was the recent consensus on your thread, and that was for you to work on tweaking it up just a notch in the "be engaging"/less-snarky department.

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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ah now I see. It's amazing isn't it how sometimes something so simple to understand seems so hard to implement. I think what I've been doing is minimising contact and then on top of that minimising conversation...therefore I just look distant and uninterested in anything related to her I guess.

So if I've got this right I'm going to go for minimising contact (no unnecessary calls/texts etc) but when I'm with her I'm going to be friendly in a neighbourly way and talk about the weather, the kids, how's work etc etc without referring to our R. I hope I've got that right. That does now seem to make perfect sense to me. I had been wondering, as I wrote just earlier, how we might move things along if I am not really speaking to her when I am with her, even if I wasn't being nasty or unpleasant, just not talkative to her. Now hopefully I see what to do.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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OK, it's time for an early morning weekend update. I'm going to recap on a few things here. Firstly, W wanted a D. She seems to have backtracked on that considerably. There was a letter sent to our home about a week or so ago from a solicitor. She says this was just an inquiry she had made from when during arguments previously I had said I would make sure I had custody over the kids. I haven't seen any solicitor. It appears she doesn't want to proceed in that direction at the moment either as all her effort seems to be going into enjoying herself and finding somewhere else to live.

Her A was exposed about 3 weeks after we separated. I had an inkling for a while but had it confirmed at this point.

From the split we had weeks of pleading/crying etc. I've stopped that, changed clothes, did other 180s as I've written. This turned W into thinking I was seeking advice, moving on. I broke down momentarily once about 10 days or so ago I think. She has toned down the anger this last week bar the odd flare up, and has been distant but pleasant enough. Kind of like the way I have been actually.

I am trying to find a balance between being nice and pleasant but not overdoing things. I hope the next step is starting to rebuild some sort of connection through limited interaction. I see her virtually every day in small doses. In the next week a 'family' trip out might be on the cards. For now though the focus has to be on myself, the kids, and gauging it right when it comes to interacting with her. The advice in this regard from the board has been fantastic.

so, now we're at the weekend. It's ballet time for my daughter this morning. I will leave in an hour or so to go and get her. After that I'm not sure what to do with the kids. I might take them out somewhere. W has worked last night and so will spend most of the day in bed. She won't be coming with us today. I want to squeeze in some golf practice and watch some cycling that's on the TV later. I have a round of golf planned for tomorrow. Dentist apointment monday, DB coaching session booked for Tuesday, poker Tuesday evening, Italian meet up Wednesday. I need to lay out parenting arrangements for this week. I will do that this morning when I go to get the kids.

I am not sleeping very well. I went to bed at 8pm last night because I was tired but woke up at 10pm and have been just snoozing the whole night. I got up at 4am and have been doing some work. The night time is the worst, being alone, listening to music, sometimes getting a bit upset, longing for my W and children. Day times are not so bad, I am keeping busy, doing lots of things, many of them new activities or old ones that I haven't done in a while.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Hi Alpha - sounding good generally....sorry you didn't have the best night though. It's hard functioning on not much sleep. Some people on these boards seem to have found the Headspace app helpful. I haven't tried it, but I am practicing mindfulness and I do think it's help me find a calm place during the rollercoaster ups and downs.

Hope you have a good day with the kids!

Toots :-)


T 13 M 7
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SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks for the tip on the Headspace app Toots, I will look into that. I hope you have a nice weekend too.


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PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
CONTINUAL TALK OF D
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M: 4.5yrs
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Just been to get kids. Initiated a little chat about W's work. MIL was quite pleasant with me, showing me practise writing the kids had done. W was cordial. After D's ballet I'm going to take them to the fair for a bit - kids will enjoy it. Hopefully I have begun to gauge things better. It was only a small interaction this morning but it went without a problem. Not the best time to chat to W after night shifts, so I knew not to push any conversations. Will continue on in same vein when info back later.


BD - 30TH JAN 2015
S - 30TH JAN 2015
PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014)
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Sounds good Alpha - you're managing to do just what MWD recommends - try something, evaluate how it goes etc....good for you. Hope you enjoy the fair!


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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