Continuing DBing

[PeterV2]

Continued from previous thread:http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=56843&Number=2540779#Post2540779

SO I used the NVC technique: observation, feelings, needs, request:

I see you're still in touch with OM. That makes me feel hurt and angry and discouraged. I need to be resepcted. I ask that you never contact him gain.

It was about a 4 hour deep convo and there was much weeping on both sides. She agreed to go NC. She did admit to me that she would call him from time to time to tell him she's safe and ok. She said I scared her and made her feel unsafe a few days after BD, but that was 14 months ago. She said that she went through an abusive 1st marriage and that has sensitized her to any threatening behaviour. I never threatened her. I did try to give the OM a knuckle sandwich the morning after I found them in a hotel room but I swung and missed, so my track record of never having hit anyone still stands.

If she stops all contact then I can let her have her time to find herself again. I just couldn't stand the limbo knowing there was still contact.

Her only daughter is getting married in July and W is deep into the wedding planning. It's a big event in her life and a once-in-a-lifetime event at that. I can back off and let her enjoy that without hanging a pending divorce over her head for the next 5 months. That would just be mean. So long as she goes NC with OM I can take the limbo longer. It was the contact with the OM that drove me to do what I did the past couple of weeks.

I know I'm not supposed to even mention the OM, but I did so by name and when she admitted she talked to him from time to time I asked her directly how does she think that makes me feel. She thought about it for a few moments and then said it must make me feel horrible and that she'll stop.

Now I just need to talk to her about how she plans to prove to me compliance.

[Starsky309]

" She did admit to me that she would call him from time to time to tell him she's safe and ok."

What did you say to this? NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT. EVER.

It needs to be 100%, and she needs to be transparent with you. I'd strongly suggest YOU lead here Peter, and show her what this looks like.

Affairs are HIGHLY ADDICTIVE. You don't ask the alcoholic or the gambling addict how they are going to prove to you they are no longer drinking or gambling. You hold their hand, give them tough love, and you LEAD.


Starsky

[Wonka]

Your previous thread didn't link properly so am posting it here:

Continuing DBing 1

[Wonka]

Peter.

I am glad that you had the difficult convo with W. I think for the first time she "listened" to your concerns and not blow them off like she always did in the past.

That is a new thing coming from W whereas in the past she would defiantly refuse to cease contacting the OM. I'd suggest that you let it be and monitor.

If W tells you that she did contact OM, you want to thank her for her honesty. Then state that it is no longer working for you and she has some decisions to make such as breaking off all contact with the OM. That would be also the time to insist that she compose a NC letter to the OM and have you approve it before she hits the "send" button.

All in all, I think it is a positive that she acknowledged that "it made you feel horrible and she'll stop."

Also suggest that you check out the Dear Peggy website for some tidbits on affairs and recovering from them. I think it goes hand-in-hand with DB really well.

[sandi2]

If she stops all contact then I can let her have her time to find herself again.

This has been your condition since the beginning. She talks for hours about how bad she had it and does a lot of crying. You relent and agree to leave the M as it is. She takes the A deeper under cover and you play along with her game.........believing you are giving her time to find herself. The "finding herself" is a cop out, Peter.

I think you choose to believe it, b/c you look for excuses. Now it's the wedding and you don't want to be mean. If that's how you want to live, then I don't know what to say that hasn't already been said.

[PeterV2]

Sandi, I will no longer tolerate secrecy. Either she complies with the NC and proves it or she can get herself a divorce lawyer. I need to make that clear, but not do it in any hostile way. Just a mater-of-fact way.

I do need to insist on the NC letter to the OM. I have some versions prepared which I could show to her and say you can use any of these or compose your own but I need to approve it before you send it.

She may accuse me of trying to control her, but I'll say it's not control. It's just my boundaries and if you overstep my boundaries I will act accordingly. I am not willing to continue in a marriage where there is another person.

I did tell her yesterday that I don't do triangles. She said she doesn't do triangles either, which I found a little odd. A total lie. But maybe her intention is not to do triangles and she's just having a hard go of it. Like Starsky says, it's an addiction.

Anyway, I definitely need to have the transparency talk. And veterans, I need a little guidance here. I don't want to come across too pressuring or to overbearing, but need to get her to hear me. How she behaves at this juncture will determine whether she has 5 months of blissful wedding preparation time with her daughter, or if she goes through 5 months of a messy divorce before her daughter ties the knot. I would prefer the former of course but I will state my boundaries in no uncertain terms.

Yeah Sandi. I know you've said it all and I have taken it all in. I just have a hard time sometimes with her treating me nice, cooking delicious gourmet meals, buying me gifts, smiling and laughing with me, while she continues her secret life. She sometimes seems to be a master manipulator and I just a gullible dupe.

[PeterV2]

She said she would go NC.

I need to bring it up again and tell her I'm not willing to live in an open marriage. You said you would end contact. I need proof of that. Here are 3 versions of a no contact letter I've prepared or you can write your own, but I need to approve it before you send it to him. And then I need to be able to see you phone and for you to open up your computer to me. If you're not willing to do that then it's over between us. I'll get a mediator involved to hammer out the terms of separation and divorce. - Maybe a little aggressive, but definitely stating my boundaries.

Here are the letters. I'm thinking of sending them to W in an email so she can edit them and send them to OM. Or write something in the same vein.

1.
I have made a decision. I want to be with my husband. I no longer want to continue our relationship or keep any secrets from Peter. Everything is out in the open. I realize now that I used poor judgment in getting involved in this in the first place and am sorry for that. I plan to get help to understand how I could betray my own values as well as my family.
I am recommitting to Peter. Do not contact me again for any reason.
I know this is abrupt but that is the only way. We both knew the risks we were taking. Please respect my decision to no longer have any contact. I will no longer respond to any email, text, calls or other attempts to communicate with me.

2.
I want you to know that out of respect and love for my husband, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that Peter did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay Peter for the pain I have caused him, I will do my best to become the wife he’s been missing. I care a great deal for Peter and I would not want to do anything to risk his happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

3.
The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I’ve caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best wife that he deserves.
Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.
My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he will also be told of any attempts at contact.

She will of course saying I'm being controlling. I'll just say I'm only trying you help you find the words. You can write your own as long as I approve it before you send it. And if you're not willing to do this then I know it's over between us. And I'll be ok with that.

[Sotto]

Hi Peter, I would just give her one version...maybe this?

I need to tell you that I have made the decision to be with my husband. I no longer want to continue our relationship or keep any secrets from Peter. I have shared everything with him now.

I realize that I used poor judgment, getting involved in a relationship outside of my marriage and am sorry for that. I plan to get help to understand how I could betray my own values as well as my family.

I have recommitted to Peter now, and would ask you to respect this decision. I don't want you to contact me again for any reason. And I will no longer respond to any email, texts or other attempts to communicate with me. Peter and I will discuss any attempts to make contact with me.

I know this may feel abrupt but that is the only way to do this. We both knew the risks we were taking. I care a great deal for Peter and I would not want to do anything to risk his happiness. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I’ve caused my family.

I wish you well for the future.

Also in terms of controlling, say to her that you're perfectly happy if she prefers to draft what she would like to say - but the bottom line for you is that you need to approve it and want to see that it is sent - or send it yourself. You could say to her that you are purely giving her this to indicate the kind of message that you want OM to receive.

The only thing I would mention is that she may want to be a little 'kinder' to him. I'm not sure what other posters may feel about that. I have read elsewhere that kindly ending the A is more likely to bring closure and less in the way of repercussions from a disappointed AP.

[PeterV2]

Ok, I've cobbled together my Control speech.

I have no desire to control you. I can only control myself.

I have decided what works for me.

I will not live in an open marriage.

I will be married to someone who is faithful to me and committed to working on our relationship.

My wife will treat me with respect and be civil even when we disagree.

My wife will be honest with me even if it's a difficult subject.

I will be with someone who will come to me and not turn to another man when the going gets tough.

This is what I deserve going forward.

Now, whether or not you can be that woman is completely up to you, and I'll understand if you don't want to.

I cannot control what you do; you are a grown adult woman, and are free to make your own choices.

All I can tell you is what I am will to endure in my marriage, and this is a personal boundary with me.

I love you, and I don't want a divorce, and I hope you will come back and work on our marriage with me, at which point I think you will find me ready and willing to work on any and all issues.

I do expect you to let me know, however, and soon, because I'm not waiting forever.

To be delivered in a very neutral tone of voice, no anger or cynicism.

[Wonka]

Peter,

Slow down. S-L-O-W down, bud.

You're going the sledgehammer way when a nudge is all it needs. I am a big fan of allowing the WAS to step up and demonstrate that they will do what they said they would do.

Look...your W has heard your "not want a D" speech way too many times.

What is new here is that W responded to your comment on how she would feel if she were in your shoes. That is a change that I haven't seen before. She's said that she will not contact OM. Let her step up the plate without your constant bleating in her ear.

Step back and monitor. DO NOT DO ANYTHING NOW. It's your antsy pantsy that's driving you up the wall.

Doing nothing is also action.

If she contacts the OM, then it would be appropriate to bring up the NC letter. It is your boundary and the marriage's boundary.

No more Wet Noodle moving of the goal posts. To me, a simple comment of "this isn't working for me any more. We have some decisions to make" and then STICK to it. That is if your W refuses to do the NC letter or allow you to see it and approve it.