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If she wants to do something I am generally 'fine' with it (so not over enthusiasticaly fake, but supportive). On the other hand, if she wants to do something that I cant agree on no matter how much I bend, I will be sure to softly 'complain' and state the reason why. Careful to never jump down to contempt, etc. No yelling, no storming out.


Can you explain a little more about what you mean here? Are you referring to something she would want the two of you doing together, or something just for herself?

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Clearly the 'fish under the table' needs to be addressed,


laugh That's a new one, never heard that expression....but makes a lot sense.

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I have cut back on social visits (seeing how me being out with the guys got me into this mess) so not sure me cutting her loose to go and be social every night is a great idea.


Just be sure you don't swing too far the other way and start smothering her with your presence.

Since we don't know you that well, it will left up to you to look within yourself and think really deep about your behavior, attitudes, responses, etc. You know, we can say a lot without ever saying a word. Some men are bad to give negative signs when his W says something. Like rolling his eyes, or a heavy groan, etc. Do you ever do things like that?

Do you ever say things that are tacky, or a little disrespectful? Make her the butt of your jokes? Embarrass her in front of friend? Put her down or thrown off about her when talking to others? These are things you need to observe about yourself.

What about your tone of voice when you speak to her or respond to something she says or does? How do you sound when she calls you, or first sees you after work?

How is your mood at home in the evenings? What are you like when you first get home from work? A grouch? Angry? Happy to see her and ready to listen about her day? Interested in her daily life?

Would you say you treat her as an equal partner, or more like a parent-child relationship? Do you think you are smarter than she is? Do you expect her to give an account of most everything she does, bills, money spent for shopping, etc. Does she have to ask you for money to spend?

Does she act nervous and up-tight around you? What does her body language say (other than the time in the cab)? Is she stiff and unapproachable? Do you believe you had anything to with her being that way?

These are just a few things to help you get started, and hopefully, you'll remember some others.


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Can you explain a little more about what you mean here? Are you referring to something she would want the two of you doing together, or something just for herself?


Actually for most things, though she tends to want to do things herself. For items done 'together' I am just thrilled she suggests it (going to our neighbourhood restaurant once a week, if I am lucky) so I do not push back, unless, which is very rare these days, it is something that I simply can't stand.



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I have cut back on social visits (seeing how me being out with the guys got me into this mess) so not sure me cutting her loose to go and be social every night is a great idea.


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Just be sure you don't swing too far the other way and start smothering her with your presence.


I try hard not to. No loitering, just hanging around. Even in our apartment, I will be either engaged with something or in a conversation with her. Otherwise, out doing work/busy with other things or in another room.

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Since we don't know you that well, it will left up to you to look within yourself and think really deep about your behavior, attitudes, responses, etc. You know, we can say a lot without ever saying a word. Some men are bad to give negative signs when his W says something. Like rolling his eyes, or a heavy groan, etc. Do you ever do things like that?


Absolutely not. I am thinking only positive thoughts around her and when i am talking to her. It makes for a stressful experience, sort of like I'm on a perpetual interview. Always a neutral or smile for an expression. Funny or softly spoken speech. And really try to engage her with questions to make her be the one that does the talking.

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Do you ever say things that are tacky, or a little disrespectful? Make her the butt of your jokes? Embarrass her in front of friend? Put her down or thrown off about her when talking to others? These are things you need to observe about yourself.


Absolutely positively not. Not in forever, if it ever really happened. Im on eggshells right now, trying hard not to seem that I am on eggshells (as natural as I can be given the situation...)



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What about your tone of voice when you speak to her or respond to something she says or does? How do you sound when she calls you, or first sees you after work?


Once again, very measured. Nice, composed. If anything it may appear I am trying too hard. But i go out of my way to not come across aggressively or in any way that would make her close down. Except when she comes to me and says "I just don't think this is working....etc" I can't help myself but try to push back. Its like Im fighting for my life. But only in those cases.

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How is your mood at home in the evenings? What are you like when you first get home from work? A grouch? Angry? Happy to see her and ready to listen about her day? Interested in her daily life?


Very cool and with a smile on my face. Trying hard not to look like I am too over eager. But definitely engaged and open to conversation.

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Would you say you treat her as an equal partner, or more like a parent-child relationship? Do you think you are smarter than she is? Do you expect her to give an account of most everything she does, bills, money spent for shopping, etc. Does she have to ask you for money to spend?


So this is a difficult one, because I'm sure (based on what I said earlier it is probably easy to see) that I did act that way earlier. I controlled the family finances, and was constantly riding her because she was not very good at managing the bills and controlling spending, which made me particuarly annoyed since i was the person earning the money. She would complain that we should be approaching this as a team, and I would shoot back that it is not much of a team if I was the only one doing the earning. Not helpful, I know. Since the blow up, however, I have tried to really ease up on this, and try to be collaborative on money issues. I still control the account and would rather share it, but that's a hard thing to do when she's threatening to walk out on me!

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Does she act nervous and up-tight around you? What does her body language say (other than the time in the cab)? Is she stiff and unapproachable? Do you believe you had anything to with her being that way?

I think this has become marginally better over time, but it is still odd. She will never touch me (except for that one time in the restaurant, i stated earlier which was shocking) She does act up-tight around me and is definitely stiff and unapproachable. We lie in the same bed but she will quickly roll over so that I can't hug her good night.

I do believe one of her main love language is touch because before she gave up she was constantly asking me to hug her and stroke her head, stroke her back, hold her hand, etc. But now its completely off. The drop off in touch is easily the biggest difference before and after. And now I am the one that is fearful of reaching out, because I don't want to witness her pulling away. Its almost like I need a few beers to be able to do it! (sad sad I know). But its emotionally painful to have someone you love pull away from you when you reach for them (now I know how she felt!). But I have made it a point to reach out and touch her on occasions - when we wake up, when she or I leave the house, When we go to bed. In most cases it is just a very quick stroke of the shoulder or lower back, but I am doing it consistently and it has been fast enough that she hasn't pulled away.

This is all pretty difficult.

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Thanks for answering all those questions. I really was trying to just give you some areas to think about your behavior in the past, since you said you wanted us to help you with it. It sounds as if you are working hard to improve. Now the trick will be to stick with it.

I see a lot of control issues. I refer back to this statement, as an example.

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If she wants to do something I am generally 'fine' with it


When I asked if that meant when she was talking about herself or both of you, you said usually it was about something she would do by herself. So, generally you are "fine" with it. Does she check with you, first? Sometimes a W may say to her H, "Is it okay with you if I (fill in the blank) ___________?" Which doesn't mean she is asking for permission, but it is a nice way to tell you what what she is going to do....and if there are some conflicting issues, then you can tell her. Perhaps you have acted as though she has to ask your permission or see how you feel about it?

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Would you say you treat her as an equal partner, or more like a parent-child relationship? Do you think you are smarter than she is? Do you expect her to give an account of most everything she does, bills, money spent for shopping, etc. Does she have to ask you for money to spend?


So this is a difficult one, because I'm sure (based on what I said earlier it is probably easy to see) that I did act that way earlier. I controlled the family finances, and was constantly riding her because she was not very good at managing the bills and controlling spending, which made me particuarly annoyed since i was the person earning the money. She would complain that we should be approaching this as a team, and I would shoot back that it is not much of a team if I was the only one doing the earning. Not helpful, I know. Since the blow up, however, I have tried to really ease up on this, and try to be collaborative on money issues. I still control the account and would rather share it, but that's a hard thing to do when she's threatening to walk out on me!


Whoa! I would have probably walked out right then & there! Maybe you should try changing positions sometime as see how that works for ya.

You have to do more than ease up. Do you get that? The only reason you have let up is b/c of the blowup and her threatening to walk out. You must conquer this control problem. Find some way that works for both of you regarding the spending, but "riding her" is not the way. There is a difference in leading and control. She is an adult and whether you feel she's an equal partner or not.....she most certainly is.

I can understand how, in some cases, the man has to control the account......if his W has no sense of money management. However, it is your attitude that matters to her the most. If she has to ask you for every dime she spends, it makes her feel like a child asking her daddy. I bet if she asks for XX amount of $, the first words out of your mouth is, "For what?" Do you have any idea how demeaning that can make a person feel?

Maybe it was how your own father ran his home, IDK, but if you don't want to end up in divorce court, you need to loosen the reigns a lot more.

These answers you gave sound really good, however, she is not going to buy it hook, line and sinker. She is just waiting to when you backslide. She believes it's all a ploy to win her back. You know what that means for you, right? You can never go back to your old ways. wink


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These answers you gave sound really good, however, she is not going to buy it hook, line and sinker. She is just waiting to when you backslide. She believes it's all a ploy to win her back. You know what that means for you, right? You can never go back to your old ways. wink


This is the crux of my problem. I don't know what I can do to convince her of the changes. I keep hearing from these forums and all of the books that I have read that you can't be doing these things to win her back - but its a bit of a catch 22. Of course I want to win her back, but of course these changes are bigger than her. I get the point regarding patience, but what do you do when you feel that we are literally stuck at a stalemate?

I read that usually when men leave a relationship, it is for another relationship. However for a WAW, when they leave, their minds are made up. That's the frustrating part - she has her script and has stuck to it - "this doesn't work...." At the same time, she really want us to be civil to each other because she can't bear the thought of her being the cause of the massive disruption to our son, etc. She doesn't want to be vulnerable with me.

Are there real life stories of people that have managed to save their relationships - men saving a walk away wife - by just holding out and staying the course? Or is it all a pipe dream? It is what it is - if thats the case and this 180ing is really just for me to move on, I have to accept reality. But hope can be an incredibly painful thing.....

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Yes there have been a number of us who have been able to save their marriages from a WAW. You need to have patience in your own sitch. And you can't be making these changes just to get her back, even just reading what you're doing sounds insincere.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
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I don't know what I can do to convince her of the changes


You can't convince her through talking. "Why can't you believe that I have really changed?"

The only way she will be convinced is to see you live the changes day in and day out. Over time, when she sees the improvements stuck, then she will accept they are authentic.

A lot of men get focused on doing something that will win her back, and once they get her back.....then changes he made stop. He feels he has won and stops trying. Then the M is back in the same trouble.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Guys,

Thanks for the tough love and honesty. What I am sharing with you all are my inner frustrations; the changes I am making are completely sincere. Another huge driver for the changes is my son. In a fit of inconvenient timing, I came to my personal crisis point when my wife stopped reaching for me and my infant son started to connect with me (right before the age of 2). My wife doesn't believe that it wasn't just her closing me out that made me want to change; but it is the truth. I had become an angry and unhappy person, and with this young person sitting there totally helpless, reaching for me, man it made me want to change. It was a wake up call (reinforced by my wife closing me out); no way was I going to subject this child to an emotional roller coaster - my relationship with him was something that is totally within my control.

The irony was that I had thought that I didn't want a child and I was never great with kids before; but the minute he started to really speak and engage, I saw a different world. And if for no other reason, I want to be a better person because of him. He deserves the best and I have to power to give it to him.

So, what I am sharing with regards to changes and queries about how I can get through to my wife are not insincere changes meant to only win her back, but more managing my expectations with regards to understanding how long it took for some of you all to make progress. I am in it for the long haul, as long as she is willing, since with my son in the picture I will never 'backslide.' It is simply not an option - I don't want to be an angry, suspicious, controlling person. And I won't be.

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Are there real life stories of people that have managed to save their relationships - men saving a walk away wife - by just holding out and staying the course?


Yes, there have been many over the years. I am not good about remembering names, but Mr. Bond, for one, held out a looooong time. Starsky is another man who had a WAW in an A. There is Jack3Beans who is still around. Most people leave the board after their M has been saved, but a few of us have stuck around. In recent years there was Coach, Robx, Allen, & Denver, just to name a few.


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Somehow Pundit, I think you're not seeing the whole dynamic. Just an instinct on my part - hard to put into words why exactly.

Reading your thread, it almost seems like she wants you to be the one to end it. As if she wants to avoid being that person herself. If you really want to save your relationship, that may be a good thing. Or it may not. Too early to tell.

I think it's clear what you want. I have no idea from your posts what she wants though. The clues to that may be in the past and she may not be willing to bring them up now. Or even really know right now.

Some questions: What about you are you willing to change? I mean deep down, what's important to keep and what is not about YOU? With or without her in your life?

What is it you want for her? What does that look like to you?

And Sandi's right - newcomers might give you more feedback. smile

AJ


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Still around?


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