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#2538653 02/15/15 04:06 PM
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Hey, it's time for a new thread! The last one ended with my canine sidekick restored to health and with Old Dog speculating that the Newcastle I was enjoying might not be the same formula as they enjoy in the old country.

Links to Old Threads

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...663#Post2477663
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...461#Post2493461
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...700#Post2498700
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...509#Post2512509
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...460#Post2524460

The start of a new thread is always a good time to take stock. I'm resigned that I will be divorced in a couple months. And while I am theoretically open to the idea of reconciliation, I can't see it as a possibility for years down the road.

I'm good on most practical matters. The reclassification of my job that will give me enought of a raise to solidify my finances is slowly winding its way through various budget committees. Bit by bit, I'm finding solutions to various logistical problems that have arisen as a result of my basically being a single parent. D6 started taking the school bus for the first time last week - which has given me a precious extra half hour in the mornings.

Emotionally, I'm still on the rollercoaster although the dips don't last as long. I've noticed that the real "high" moments where I feel determined to take on the world, are also starting to level out somewhat into something more realistic and reasonable. I think that's a good sign.

I do give way too much headspace to the “whys” of the situation and general speculative thinking. Rationally, I know this is not going to get me anywhere, but I can’t seem to stop it yet. Maybe it’s something, much like grief, that I just have to go through. Lately, I’ve been thinking how we had finally gotten to our goal – the house we planned on living in for the next 40 years, secure jobs, kids in the school system we intend to keep them in etc. That plateau lasted for such a brief time – not even a year. And I wonder about stupid things like whether this OW knows that she isn’t the first. Not constructive - hopefully by next thread I will turn a corner on this issue.

As to STBX? Who knows what is going on in his life? He moved an hour away, so no gossip ever drifts my way about what he is up to. He has girls between 4-6 nights a month (always on school days due to his schedule) and he relentlessly entertains them the entire time he has them, it doesn’t sound like they have any quiet family time at all. This actually predates BD, I thought the girls needed to learn to be self-reliant and play without out us for at least a little bit of time each day – while he thought they needed constant arts and crafts, game playing etc. Maybe this was more of an issue with him than I realized. He claims to be his Mom’s “favorite”, and he definitely prefers his Mom to his Dad, so maybe he was trying to recreate that dynamic (He’s wrong BTW, his Mom is just as fond of his sister). I’m on excellent terms with his family (who live across the country), but I don’t know how much of his current life he shares with them. His mom is coming out next month when D6 becomes D7 (she stays with me), which should be interesting. I’m not sure when he will make the attempt to introduce her to OW. My MIL has hissed “What kind of woman could she be?”, but she loves her son (as she should) and this semi estrangement wears at her – so I’m sure she will crumble eventually.

Anyway- let’s see where this thread takes me.


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Having a nice end to the three day weekend.

Didn't end up taking D6 skiing, becuse the snow report sounded pretty dire (Curse you, drought!). I think I will spring for season passes for next year while they are still cheap and keep my fingers crossed we have a better year. The more I think about it, I would like to work this back into my life.

To compensate for the cancelled ski trip, had a one on one day with D6 today, and bought her the next size bike (although she won't let me ditch the training wheels yet). As an aside - they had an "antique" Schwinn with the same sparkly banana boat seat I rocked as a kid - and they wanted $400 for it. Not sure if that made me feel old, or really cool 35 years too late. Anyway - bike was a hit which opens up another outdoor activity for us. Lots of fantastic bike trails in the area. While I am not particularly outdoorsy, I notice right now it does help keep my PMA up.

Couldn't sleep last night, couldn't find my Kindle, rummaged through my bookshelves and ended up reaquainting myself with some Saki and Wodehouse. I realized I really need to start reading for pleasure more. While I've gone on the occasional jag, I haven't done it consistently since D3 was born and I miss it.

Anyway- got through Valentie's Day without any heartache. There are about 3 B and Bs that are popular wedding venues within a mile of my house and there's not a weekend that goes by without someone's Pinterest inspired decorations adorning the signpost at the street corner, so I'm pretty immune to the rest of the world's in your face romantic gestures.

I'm pleased that D6, D3 and I seem to be hitting a groove as a party of 3. D6 is mopey for about half a day when she returns from her Dad's, but seems to be pretty stable for the rest of the week. She did ask me if I could buy some massage oils like Lisa's . Ouch. Apparently OW is quite the amateur masseuse.

Ready to start the week - a few divorce details to tackle this week and then we should just ride out the waiting period.

Last edited by raliced; 02/17/15 01:12 AM.

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Raliced you seem like you are in such a good level place. I'm happy for you. smile



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First day of Lent today- I'm going to give up sugar for 40 days- that will be quite an exercise in self control (for me anyway).

Tonight is my time without the kids. Hoping I can get some stuff done in the garden. The combination of the massive rainstorm we had last week and the now unseasonably warm 72 degree weather (sorry East Coasters) has created a lot of springtime clean up I wasn't really ready for yet.

I started this thread by saying I wanted to stop the speculative thinking - and I'm afraid I haven't had any success with that. For the last week, D6 has worked wedding rings into conversation a lot - it naturally made me wonder what's been happening at her Dad's that could have promoted that topic. Or I suppose she could have seen it in one of her kids movies. Who knows. I don't want to quiz her about it.

Last edited by raliced; 02/18/15 02:22 PM.

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Raliced,

I've been away and am so happy to hear your pup is okay. I have a Bernese mix too. Since you are giving up sugar, I'll have an Almond Joy in your honor.

In regards to wedding rings, my kids ask about marriage frequently too. Their dad has said he can't wait to make his GF his 3rd ex wife (lofty amibitions:) but it is fruitless to speculate. Hang in there. You are doing fantabulous:)



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You really do sound strong and grounded, Raliced.

I think the speculating stuff is natural. It's hard not to wonder how we got here. I know sometimes I sit and ponder that for a loooong time. Last year at this time I was looking for a dress and shoes to wear to H's movie premiere complete with paparazzi, red carpet interviews, publicists, after parties, stars...and now I'm swiftly heading towards divorce. Lol!! It's laughable but oddly and arguably I'm happier. Huh. Interesting.

This thread has big things in store for you, I can feel it!!


M: 37 H: 36
M: 13 T: 18
D: 7
Bomb: 6/30/14
Separation: 8/11/14

Be strong enough to let go and wise enough to wait for what you deserve.
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I met STBX at the local library yesterday for kid exchange. I think I've said this before - but there's always this moment of extreme dissonance when I see him. On the one hand - after years together he is so familiar and comfortable to me. My heart swells a little. And then he puts the kids in my car, gets back in to what is now his truck as he checks his phone for messages and drives home to the OW. And I feel so betrayed all over again.

For years when I have described STBX to people who don't know him, I always start off by saying he's such a good guy. And since BD, I've felt so foolish, because I missed so many red flags. I think I need to start accepting that he can be a good guy who still did a cr***y thing in a particularly cr***y way, because he's human and he's in some sort of crisis.

That doesn't make me feel a lot better about the decisions he has made - but it does give me hope that the future with him will be better, no matter what it looks like. Because.... he's the father of my children and that makes him family....for as long as we both shall live.

My, I'm in a benevolent mood today.

Last edited by raliced; 02/20/15 10:36 PM.

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Raliced, I've struggled a bit with the seemingly Jekyll and Hyde of a guy who cheated on me and walked out on me but comes over to fix my heater and takes our D12 shopping when she needs a new party dress. My IC has helped me put this in perspective a bit. And what I've decided is that H is a crappy H, but a good friend and will be a good X. I guess one person can't be everything. I'm trying to focus on the good parts. I hope he does the same about me.



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^^^ this shows so much strength and grace. Kudos to you, raliced and rpp. I wish I was there. Someday, I suppose...


Me 38 H 40
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T 8 M 6
BD 10/2013

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I used to do the same....say things like he's really a good guy...he just in crisis. I think unfortunately the crisis brings out their dark side full force. How long it lasts and whether or not they can get past it is the problem.

Don't messure your worth on his yardstick. Keep moving forward. He will either catch up or eventually get left behind. If you don't move you will be stuck in limbo. That is like he-- on earth.


Me 52 H 44
T9 M 5
BD 12/11 H
split 8/12
OW moved in 12/12
OW gone for good 6/14
We get closer again 9/14
SD 13 Me 4 Grown





Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
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Avuncular? Dissonance? It's a weekend, Raliced! I'm at a disadvantage because I live with a nonverbal kiddo who doesn't stimulate my vocabulary. Well, unless you count all the cool medical lingo I've picked up through the years? No? Ok. I'm going to lose to you. :-)

My only hope for banter is with my now D21 (today is our birthday😄), but she's hungover and could barely talk to me today. I'm pathetic!

On a note to,get back to your dissonance post, don't you think that people are complex, difficult to label and our box-y categorization a little biased and from a single POV? I have to admit, it took me a long time to feel in my heart that my XH had his own set of accurate gripes about me. Perish the thought! But... Like RPP, my XH turned out to be a better dad and friend than husband. I reconciled that.

As the kid of a cop, I can tell you it's not easy to be married to one. My folks are the only ones in their circle of friends still married. And even then, my mom came close to kicking Dad out when I was 17. It's a tough dynamic. I think we kids had it easier because we just believed he'd be ok. My mom struggled with it. My dad had a few friends who were cheaters. Serial cheaters. And I loved them. But they were adrenaline junkies and addicted to living on the edge. I'd like to think these men have/had regrets, but what do I know?

Hugs for being that person. Your kids are fortunate that you're their mom.

Betsey


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You and D21 share a birthday, Bets? Happy birthday to both of you!



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Hey Betsey!

Welcome to the thread. Medical lingo totally counts - I'm a healtchcare analyst IRL - so I talk to doctors all day long about fun topics like "co-morbidities".

Originally Posted By: Underdog

As the kid of a cop, I can tell you it's not easy to be married to one. My folks are the only ones in their circle of friends still married. And even then, my mom came close to kicking Dad out when I was 17. It's a tough dynamic. I think we kids had it easier because we just believed he'd be ok. My mom struggled with it. My dad had a few friends who were cheaters. Serial cheaters. And I loved them. But they were adrenaline junkies and addicted to living on the edge. I'd like to think these men have/had regrets, but what do I know?


Well - I hate to say it - but I think one issue STBX had was that I might have been a little too nonchalant about his profession. Since I find comfort in numbers and statistics, I always found the studies that most cops never have to discharge their service weapons very reassuring. And, after all, its still a lot more dangerous just to be a woman than to be in law enforcement. I always slept perfectly well when he was working. I think he he craved the respect that his profession frequently engenders and didn't necessarily feel he got it from me, or at least not is the dosage he needed.

And, while it's in that same line of speculative thinking I'm trying to shake - I think you're on to something about the adrenaline junkies - definitely a possiblity in STBX's case. He certainly came home pretty jazzed up if he had to run a suspect down at work.

There's still a lot of mystery about everything he's been up to. The weird motorcycle accident that seemed to kick this whole thing off... and I wouldn't be remotely surprised if there were some one night stands sprinkled in or if the first OW came out here to visit while he was at a "training". Lately I fantasize that some day, 20 years from now, we'll be at a place where he can spill about everything- although I doubt he would even remember at that point. Honestly - I still have a bit of a tough time with the idea that I will probably never know.

A very Happy Birthday to you and D21.

Last edited by raliced; 02/23/15 03:22 AM.

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Yikes, let me clear up the birthday thing. My birthday is in April. But since I birthed this child, I figure it's a day we both celebrate? Sorry for the lack of clarity. I was bent over most of the day, painting furniture (I'm sore today for that feat). Maybe the blood rushed to my head and I'm oxygen deprived today?

Co-morbities? That's a yucky phrase. Notice my preschool adjective? I'm regressing. It must be because I've been homebound from a weekend of solid snow?!?!

Quote:
Well - I hate to say it - but I think one issue STBX had was that I might have been a little too nonchalant about his profession.


That is incredibly interesting, Raliced. My dad lost 6 friends during his time on the force, the last one being his best friend. He was a DC cop, not in Mayberry. He never brought work home, but he went to bars after his shift ended with his officers and drank his stress away. I didn't know better. All I knew was that he'd come home drunk and my mom would be pissed. For days.

Were/are you in denial or what's the deal here?

Now I have 3 really good friends who are cops (I'm discounting all my family members, because they don't count). They tell me stories, and I'm acutely aware of how dangerous their jobs are. Statistically speaking, being shot isn't the only way they are compromised. One of my buds (who is in fabulous shape, BTW) was extremely close to being knifed by a big ass Samoan on meth - at 6 am in the Walmart parking lot. I think that scared him a whole lot. And I probably don't need to illustrate how unpredictable domestic calls are? My dad's BFF was killed in one of those situations when I was 14. Two were killed on their service bikes, which is why my mom never allowed him to go into that area of service.

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Lately I fantasize that some day, 20 years from now, we'll be at a place where he can spill about everything- although I doubt he would even remember at that point.


I dunno, Raliced. He might. My godfather was a cop, and his XW was a friend of my mom's from MN. They divorced when I was 12, and left 2 kids my age behind. We always considered them our cousins, because we lived next door to each other and were basically raised together. Ironically, I modeled my D on a complete 180 of my aunt and uncle's--which was the most angry divorce I have ever witnessed. (LOL, and yes, the youngest is a cop who works on the bomb squad; my brother chose a career on the other side of the law, though.) When the oldest (who is 6 months younger than I) got married in 1996, my godparents BLEW.US.AWAY by dancing together on and off all night long. I had already heard my aunt's side of the story, when my uncle joined us at the table and told us his regrets and that he knew the catalyst was a fellow cop who called my aunt to tell her he was cheating on her. He looked us all in the eyes and said, "That guy had a massive crush on you, Judy. And he wanted you bad enough to try to get me out of the picture. I was not cheating on you. But no matter what I said, you weren't going to believe me, and he was going to go out of his way to create trouble. I should have fought for you. If I knew then what I know now, I would have. I'm sorry."

I'm pretty sure that hell froze over at that moment, Raliced. Sad to say, my aunt passed away 5 years ago, and my uncle has Alzheimers so bad now that he doesn't even recognize his daughter (but he always remembers my dad). When she visits him, he gets irritated and says, "When the hell is Judy coming to see me?" We literally laugh our asses off, Raliced. We used to sit in our bean bag chairs, read, listen to music and talk about how dysfunctional her parents' D was. It seems amusing now that we're both 52.

So let me ask another question. If your H was in the armed services, would you feel differently? Or a fireman? What if he was an office manager? Why do you think you didn't give him the respect or at least the admiration he was seeking? Or was this not about his profession at all? Not a slam, sweets. I'm not saying you should have had him on a pedestal or anything. But I'd NEVER, EVER date one. NEVER. That adrenaline thing is real, and I have yet to meet a cop who didn't have an addiction; most are very poor at recognizing it. But they make great friends and I *adore* all my cop friends. There is nothing I wouldn't do for them. Well, except give them a reason to use their tasers or service weapons on me... wink

So statistically speaking, I might have to go get some stats to challenge you on your sleeping like a baby night. Unless he actually works in Mayberry? Or he's actually Barney Fife? grin Then you *should* worry that he'll shoot his own foot clean off?!?!

BTW, I have a HUGE soft spot for cops. I used to host what I call "cop breakfast" - I'd invite my aforementioned pal and tell him to grab some friends and come on by at 6 am at the end of the midnight shift. I don't do it now because I drop my D17 off at high school at 7 am and I don't have the time in the morning. But I might start doing "cop dinner" for the swing shifts on weekends... Hmmm.


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He certainly came home pretty jazzed up if he had to run a suspect down at work.


LOL, I'll address this one separately because it clearly illustrates the adrenaline thing. My dad retired in 1980, so he's so far removed from this, but I asked him to explain. He said, "Desk jobs are just so damn boring. We didn't take on this job to sit around and joke. That was part of it. But we couldn't do it for more than a few minutes."

Last year, my former boss/mentor/father figure and D21's godfather passed away on Valentine's Day. My cop friends and I were well versed in his medical episodes (he had liver cancer). So we were all huddled around him as he was dying and said cops started talking about a multi-county car theft chase that involved their 3 jurisdictions. Cop 4 joined us and it was like a bunch of women reliving their first Bon Jovi concert. I didn't want to look down and see if there was any excitement, if you get my drift. grin


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Ok - going to take a quick mental break from the fascinating world of comorbidities (which are not as awful as they sound) to respond to here.

Regarding the danger level of STBX's job- I want to be clear that I worried plenty about all kinds of things, just not that he would be killed on the job. And as long as I felt he would come home at the end of his shift, I could sleep. He began his policing career in the small Iowa town we lived in that had a force of 10. Sort of Mayberry, but like most Midwestern Mayberrys these days - it had a significant meth problem. During the 5 years there - the worst that happened was that one of the officers had to go on medical leave for carpal tunnel syndrome. so that probably fed into my sense of security. The county that he works in now is rural - and according to him, pretty boring because they won't let him "do anything".

I did worry a lot however about the toll the shift work seemed to take on his health. During that stretch in Iowa he would work graveyard one month and then switch to swing the next. Awful. I told him many times I could never do that in a million years. I have a picture of him the day he graduated from the police academy holding the then infant D6, and one taken three years later holding D3 at the same age. He looks at least 10 years older- maybe closer to 15.

I worried about his mental health too. I am going to give STBX full and well deserved props here. He volunteered to be trained to do the very difficult work of catching child pornographers. Only a handful of people will do this very, very critical and very, very disturbing work. Of course, this had to cause him issues, but he wouldn't or couldn't talk about it and wouldn't see any kind of counselor either. The academy gave me a book when he graduated about how to be supportive and I did my best to follow its advice (which was to be patient and understanding about his moodiness). I don't even know how much of this work he actually ended up doing- given his understandable reticence on the topic.

I'll check in later about the topics of respect and adrenaline. Gotta let those percolate for a bit.


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And to finish up.

About the adrenaline. I think you're right and I think I didn't have my antenna up for this. STBX has a very domestic side as well. He was very happy to curl up in his sweats and watch football for the weekend, never went to bars, happy playing with his kids etc. I guess I felt that was the "real" him. And, of course, I remember him from before he was a cop and the adrenaline wasn't around, so that's my original frame of reference - but I do think it became a bigger and eventually, more essential, part of his life.

Aaaannnd... about the respect. I hope it doesn't sound like I didn't respect him or his choice of employment. My STBX is a hard worker, has always been liked by his employers, works difficult hours and with challenging subject matter and is clearly good at his job. I told him these things many times. But somehow, I just couldn't ever seem to find the right words or emphasis to satisfy the need he had. We just maybe had fundamentally different viewpoints on this.

Here's the best illustration I can give on the subject. After he started policing, I was commuting to the nearby city, when a job opportunity opened up at the county hospital that happened to be located in our little town. It was a huge and very rare opportunity to work closer to home (it gave me back 2 hours a day with my infant daughter). I wanted it very badly. When I went in to interview, STBX said "Good Luck, I told everyone at the station about it and they're all rooting for you". I responded that I wished he hadn't done that because it would be a little embarrassing if I didn't get it. I wish I could give you an accurate impression of the snotty hauteur with which he replied "They spend their time protecting people and saving lives, I hardly think they will give that much thought to what happens with your job". And that was generally his attitude. My attitude is that while I respect his work,(I really, really do) my own work is interesting, rewarding, and helps people remain healthy. Frankly, it also kept a roof over our head. It's not "less than" what he does. I don't think he feels the same way. And I'm sure my attitude colored my interactions on this topic with him. But I swear, I tried.


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Quote:
I wish I could give you an accurate impression of the snotty hauteur with which he replied "They spend their time protecting people and saving lives, I hardly think they will give that much thought to what happens with your job". And that was generally his attitude.


Actually, I can visualize that. I was married to someone who pulled (and occasionally still does) that crap with me too. I truly believe in the pit of my heart that it's their insecurity that takes the stage and it comes off as pompous as hell and doesn't exactly emit the happy vibes it was supposed to send? My XH is a rocket scientist. LOL, for real. He got his EE degree in 3 years and while he's one of the socializing nerds who has good social skills, he occasionally treats me as though I got a degree in basket weaving from the community college. Hello. I, too, have a BS in biology (premed kind) and a minor in math (not that I could even think about that today); and I've completed half my coursework for an MBA in Accounting. I used to get uber pissed off at this as well, Raliced, and I think it colored my interactions with him as well. Perhaps a bit of self preservation and unwillingness to put myself out there on the chopping block for ridicule? I know it affected my willingness to be vulnerable. But given my history in taking charge and wanting my opinions and values to matter, I'm pretty sure I knocked his masculinity around some.

So maybe it's the chicken and the egg after all?

And to sum it up, it sounds as though he felt insecure for his own reasons and wound up lashing out at you because he felt that way? AND BTW, the cop cheating thing? I know a cheater is a cheater, but I can call this brand of cheating a prop. They like the thrill of the chase. It's not the person. It's the speed in their car. Once the bimbos aren't perps, they're gone. Just my observation...

Keep up the good work. You really are doing a fabulous job of pushing forward. You have a life that matters and kids that think you rock. Some days, that's more than enough!


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It's time for a laugh...

After my mom put the kibbosh on motorcycle patrol, my dad worked vice for a few years. I'm pretty sure my mom had the hots for him in his uniform but not this duty. (Poetic justice???) He dressed like a skank, smelled like one and looked like he was a homeless drug user. This was in the 70s, LOL. He worked a side job as a house painter for extra money, so after he got off work, he'd go get covered with paint, and then just wear the same clothes the next day. One day, I heard my mom bitching about it, until he reminded her that his first choice was the Harley. grin Periodically, he still reminds her she deprived him of the one job he wanted. She did stats for the DOE and decided she wanted him to be there to be a dad. The things you do for love... smile


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Originally Posted By: Underdog


AND BTW, the cop cheating thing? I know a cheater is a cheater, but I can call this brand of cheating a prop. They like the thrill of the chase. It's not the person. It's the speed in their car. Once the bimbos aren't perps, they're gone. Just my observation...



Time will tell. Both known OWs are parole officers - so possible adrenaline issues on their sides as well, or they *get* each other. He seems pretty committed at the moment anyway.

Last night D6 and I were looking at pictures of the Oscar dresses and when we came to Laura Dern, she piped up - "Hey - that's Lisa! (OW)".

Hmmmph.

Last edited by raliced; 02/23/15 10:54 PM.

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Oh, yuck. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

Well, glad you keep your sense of humor and are the rock there. That *has* to count at some point, Raliced. wink


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Rumination of the week.

Sometimes lately, I wonder if I set the bar too low in my marriage. I never expected to be happy all the time. I always expected there to be rough patches and low points. And I think that made me too accepting when things started to go south.

And here's where I struggle a bit. When did things really go bad? STBX had started to emotionally disconnect a bit from the time he became a cop. He formed these really intense friendships with his fellow officers and that seemed to chip away at our bond a bit. But I still have to say we were happy.Things really got bad when he started the first affair. It was like a light switch went off - the change in his behavior was so dramatic. As it happened - this coincided with the decision to move out here - so I attributed all the weird behavior towards all the stressors associated with that move (and who knows - the affair and the move may be related). I guess I put up with all that weirdness for way too long, because I thought all marriages go through rough patches. Every once in a while I would ask him what was wrong and he always said work/sleep etc. And STBX never once said "I am unhappy and this isn't working for me" until the day he left.

You know, I'm a major old movie buff. One of my favorites is "The Best Years of Our Lives". There's a scene where the adult daughter is contemplating becoming an OW, and while she tries to explain herself to her parents, she accuses them of having it easy and of always having been crazy about each other. And Myrna Loy tells her how untrue that is, about how many times they said "I hate you" to one another and really thought they meant it, and all the times she thought about leaving. But they got through it all.

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but maybe I just assumed that we would naturally fall into being Myrna Loy and Frederic March in a piece of fiction.

Last edited by raliced; 02/26/15 06:09 PM.

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Oh raliced, honey, me too. My H never said he was unhappy until BD. During our failed M counseling attempts I pointed out that he never expressed his unhappiness, and he said he had, that he's complained about my closet. And that's true, he did. I just never realized that a closet was D material. Some where there was a major disconnect between him saying, "gee your closet is kind of messy" and "I'm so unhappy that I'm thinking of leaving".

I always thought that no matter what happened, NO MATTER WHAT, we were committed to each other and would make it through. Fiction? Apparently.



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I'm pretty steamed tonight.

STBX dropped off D6. Afterwards she announced that "Daddy said the reason he doesn't live here is that you got into a big fight and that he liked the old house (in Iowa), but you hated it". Also "Daddy says he still likes you but that you don't like him anymore".

This is just a flat out lie (well except for the part about me not liking him- it's certainly true at the moment).

For the record. Neither of us was from Iowa - I was transferred there for work in 2004. It was always supposed to be a temporary thing and we would eventually move closer to family. When we made the decision - he did seem unhappy about it. I vividly remember asking him "STBX - Is this going to make you miserable? Because if it is, it's not worth it - I can be happy here and he said "No - he just wanted to get us where we were going".

You know - if it made him that unhappy he could have, I don't know, said something. And now to tell this to our 6 year old so that he won't look like a bad guy? And sure- I'm aware that I might have gotten a distorted story from D6 - but she didn't pull those specifics out of the air.

I am really, really pi***d off. I'm not going to do anything until I calm down - but man I really, really want to call him out.


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Yep, my H says stuff like that occasionally, although not on that kind of scale.

About two weeks after he moved out, he came in the house when I wasn't there and took a piece off my wall, which is now hanging in his apartment. Had he asked I would have given it to him, but he just took it and left my wall empty and never said a word. Later, he told D12 that I never liked the piece, that's the reason I had "put it in the corner" and that I would never notice it was missing. All untrue.

Last week for some reason D17 and H were talking about vegetables. H likes his broccoli cooked into grey mush, everyone else in the house prefers it oven roasted. Sometimes I'd use one one method, sometimes I'd use the other. H told D17 that because I didn't cook the veggies into grey mush every time that I never cared what he thought. Wow, nevermind that there are four other people who won't eat their dinner that night, it's all about how I didn't care about him. It's broccoli, for goodness sake!

The saving grace is that the kids will figure it all out on their own eventually, when they get old enough. At the end of D17's story, she added that dad was a (unkind name for a birch tree).



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raliced,
what he is doing is typical -- he has to create a narrative for himself and your D6 in which he is not the bad guy. It's typical narcissism. He wants what he wants, and is going to pursue it at everyone else's expense, but godforbid anyone points a finger at him. She he has to come up with REASONS. And his reasons are ridiculous. Mine had similar reasons, such as me not throwing enough parties. Seriously? It will always be something: broccoli, parties, houses in Iowa. But the bottom line is that it was him and his crummy choices and his desire to have an affair. That is the real reason. Don't listen or take seriously the rest of his baloney. A mature person, when unhappy, will have an honest conversation about it with the spouse, not run off with someone else and then come up with excuses after the fact.


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Thanks rpp and Ahoy.

I know this is standard stuff, and I guess I should have expected it. However, I am really surprised that I am still this angry, almost three days later.

He could only leave me once, be revealed to be living with the OW once, but I guess I am rankled at the thought of him potentially badmouthing me and misrepresenting things to our children for....how many years?

Still am not calm enough to address it - that is not like me.


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Hi Raliced,
My W has completely thrown me under the bus to my ILs. I can only guess what she is going to say to my children to save face. My IC calls it narrative building. There are days when I experience a lot of anxiety about it. It is really a reflection of my own insecurity. i.e what if they buy her story? Other days I don't sweat it because I know that I am taking the high ground and no matter what, I can fall back on that. I struggle a lot, but do better when I take my currently very fragile ego out of it. I can't control what WAW says, let alone what she does. However, the more she badmouths me, the pettier and more defensive she will look. Kids will see right through it.
It is all part of the detachment process for me. Don't sweat it. The advice you gave me early on was spot on and you are number one in my book.
RAI


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P.S. A little dose of boundary drawing never hurts, too


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It's hard to let things like that go -- and to let go of the anger. But it serves you no good. You won't be able to control what he says or does, or what he is telling people. The people who know and love you will know the truth, and that's all that matters. Keep taking the high road.

In my case, I've made a boundary with my D14 that I don't discuss H's private life, nor do I wish to hear about it. That includes what he thinks of me. There is just nothing productive to be gained, and my daughter knows the truth anyway and will make her own decisions about the situation. But your kids are younger, so it's a trickier scenario. It may be that you'll have to address some of their questions about what happened to the marriage at a later date, when they ask and are ready to hear the truth and understand it.

The bottom line is that you know the truth. Don't let him rattle you with his nonsense.


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Thanks Ahoy - I hear you and I would probably give someone in my position the same advice - but I am going to say something. My kids are young enough that they don't really understand the whole living with a girlfriend thing and a lot of this is very confusing to them. Sure - they will figure it out years from now - but in the meantime I'd rather not have them think that Mom hates Dad or that we fought all the time. I make a lot of effort to not badmouth him in front of the kids.

I'm calm now. I'm going to wait another day and then all I'm going to do is repeat what D6 and ask if it is accurate. If he says that it is - I'm just going to ask that he stick to what he knows when he talks to them - not to speculate about what my feelings might be and to stick to the truth about the move - which is that it apparently made him unhappy - not that we fought about it.

There's a difference between taking the high road and just rolling over for him. Maybe I'm wrong - but this seems like the time to stick up for myself a bit.


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I hear you, raliced. But prepare yourself for the fact that no matter what you say, your H is going to say and do whatever he wants -- as he has all along. You won't be able to control it. Believe me, I have to deal with the same garbage, but you're right that it's harder with young ones. One thing you could do when your kids ask you, is just tell them that you have a different perspective and don't feel that way. Also you can tell them that if you want to know how someone feels, you have to ask THAT PERSON, not get information from someone else. I don't know -- they are young even for that. I know you'll figure it out, just don't expect much from your H.


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Quote:
There's a difference between taking the high road and just rolling over for him. Maybe I'm wrong - but this seems like the time to stick up for myself a bit.


I agree, and go for it! You've let the issue sit for a few days, it still bothers you, and I believe that you will be able to address this honestly, without the turbulence of emotion driving the discussion, and you might be pleasantly surprised at how it goes.

Something I used to remind my oldest, who was about 8 at the time: that black and white situations rarely exist, people and emotions are complicated, and sometimes what we think or say isn't the case at all. I'd have probably told her if she was your D6, "don't you think that I'd be able to fix something as easy as our house in Iowa or mushy broccoli?" I wouldn't add anything and I'd just let that one sit for... an eternity?

BTW, Mr. Wonderful told his family in the early phases that I forced him to move from our first house into the house I currently reside and that it made him unhappy. It took him YEARS to admit that I couldn't have all that power myself, and that yes, he was sad, but that it wasn't the breaking point for our marriage. Not being able to talk to me about it was, though.

And I'll say to you what someone wise once told me: just because someone says something doesn't mean it's the truth.

I'd say that his overly simplistic explanation to your D6 is just a smoke screen for a whole lot more complications that he doesn't want to see, think about, and/or address with anyone. Doesn't mean you have to live by that, though. You'll do a fine job with your kids, Raliced. Of that, I'm 100% sure.

Hugs-


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Thanks Betsey and Ahoy,

I'm still going to sit on it for a day - just to ensure I can remain calm and reasonable.

In some ways I'm pretty lucky. I'm on excellent terms with my In-Laws and to the best of my knowledge he hasn't made any attempt to throw me under the bus with them. The fact that he moved in directly with his girlfriend right away would kind of give the lie to any explanation anyway.

My MIL is actually coming out next week for D6's birthday (gotta get used to typing "D7" soon). She's staying with me the entire time. I was going to ask STBX to pick her up to the airport so that I wouldn't have to take time off from work. I guess it says something that I felt like I had to run it by her first. She said ok and that she would like to see him for a few minutes.

And as for friends - most of our mutual friends are in Iowa - and I have no idea if he has reached out to them. He shut down his Facebook account the day of BD, which was previously his primary method of communication.

So really - in terms of how he represents things - the only people at issue are the most important ones - our daughters. I'm ok with him being vague. He could even say that Mom and Dad couldn't get along. I'd be fine with that. There was more to the conversation he had with D6 that I didn't originally post, because she was a little more vague about it. He apparently said something about how he grew up as a simple cowboy (yeah- his grandparents had a farm - but he's from upstate New York, for pete's sake), and it sounds like there was an implication that I am some sort of materialistic city slicker and that was part of the problem, too. I'm not going to bring that part of it up with him - because I'm not as sure about what was said - but it does give me a little bit of a clue about where his head is at.

BTW - this fabulous paradise in Iowa that he was so fond of? It was a small 1950's ranch house on a beautiful acreage that was way too much work for us to maintain while we both worked full time. It really degenerated during the years we lived there. And it was cold. We spent thousands of dollars to heat it every year and it was still perpetually chilly. When we bought it, STBX talked a big game about all the work he was going to do to make it more comfortable - but it turned out he didn't really have the skills or the motivation. Yeah- I wanted to live in a bigger, better insulated house with a modern kitchen, some closet space, and a yard we could take care of. Guilty.

I've posted a lot about this one little issue. The truth is that STBX and I speak very, very rarely right now - so, since I am initiating an actual conversation - I guess I'm giving it a lot of thought.

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Raliced,

I see that many of us here also share another thing in common - spouses who don't/won't communicate effectively. I got the blame for moving too, but as I remember, I initialized it, and he ran with it. I get it.

Oh man, upstate NY where? My D21 goes to college in upstate NY, and we are not talking Albany or Syracuse. She's almost in Canada. It's kind of funny - she says that lots of the kids she goes to college with haven't been west of Cleveland. They live in the state with the largest city in the US and they think everyone else are city slickers? WTF? She's got issues with the tunnel vision and the lack of sophistication, not in style but of attitudes, mores and beliefs. I understand that.

I grew up in northern VA and you'd think that being in another large urban area that people would be savvy and well traveled. I found out exactly how NOT that was when I left. People were genuinely disturbed that I found a fulfilling, exciting life outside of DC. They couldn't understand why anyone would want to leave. I'm being dead serious. On the flip side, my mom grew up in podunk MN - north of Duluth on Lake Superior - also near Canada. People there generally accepted that the residents would go to college in the twin cities, and possibly live there, but her hometown friends were genuinely perplexed that she would leave the state. Well, they would have accepted if she moved to either Florida or Arizona, but why would anyone leave MN for any place else? Again, I'm serious.

I think wherever you live, there is the tendency to perceive "others" as something odd/weird/interesting/different because humans genuinely don't like to seek out change.

I can tell you honestly that when I was a teenager, sitting in one of my high school classrooms, and then again at work years later, staring out my window to gaze on the runway at National Airport (ok, Reagan National), I would literally imagine myself anywhere else but there. I would tell my office mate, "I wish I were on THAT plane" (pointing to one taking off) and he would quip, "What if it's going to Wichita?" I remember thinking that I just didn't care. I knew I was destined to leave my home town and go somewhere that I could redefine myself and start all over. My XH is from northwestern Montana and about as far from my upbringing as I could have possibly gone. Yet, we share many of the same beliefs and attitudes. I think it has to do with how our families of origin viewed wayfaring folk. My family has never had that sense, as my dad's family never lived stateside as long as I've been on this planet. Who knows?

Personally, I think where you live is less an indicator than the general attitude of change and growth. Perhaps your H is one of those people who just doesn't want to understand your POV?

Sorry for rambling. I'm hungry and need to eat something. Maybe I'm suffering and delusional. wink

Quote:
The truth is that STBX and I speak very, very rarely right now - so, since I am initiating an actual conversation - I guess I'm giving it a lot of thought.


This is probably growth for you, Raliced. I think this is a good thing to do.


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Betsey,

My STBX is from around the Syracuse area. I don’t know how much of his professed insularity is real and how much of it is a pose. He has actually lived in quite a few places. He went to college close to home – but then at some point his senior year he dropped out (he said he was burned out from going to classes, working full time and being in a fraternity)and proceeded to work as a chef in various locations throughout the country for about 5 years . Side note – I never paid too much attention to this period in his life before – it seemed just like 20s aimlessness. I went through a similar period myself (fun fact about Raliced- I was once a Vegas cocktail waitress). Now, it’s a lot more interesting to me, because it seems like another time when he just dropped everything and ran away. Then his mom got breast cancer (she beat it thankfully), and while she was going through treatment, he came home and finished his degree at her request. After she was recovered, he took off again, lived and worked with some friends in Vegas and met me. I've had the thought lately that maybe the return home interrupted whatever it was he was working through and now it’s come back with a vengeance.

I dunno, I have a little bit of a hard time with the “I’m just a simple country boy” routine, but I do get that is who he wants to be and I think he is trying very hard to see himself that way right now. That’s for him to work out. I just don’t want him casting me as the materialistic city slicker to the girls. Although, I’m sure they might eventually notice that we live on 10 acres and live adjacent to a town with only 15,000 residents (most are squirreled away in the mountains). Not exactly a mega metropolis.

Anyway – I sent him a note with a few logistics for the week and included a request to call me when he has a few spare minutes. I will discuss his comments to D6 then. This is actually a 180 for me – I’m not avoiding this conflict with him.

I’ll report back.

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Well- that was interesting. Spoke to STBX about D6's comments. He denied them all and seemed kinda flabbergasted. Lots of "I have no idea where she would get that from", although he did say he had told her about missing the house in Iowa. I'm not sure if I believe him completely. Some of the things she came up with were pretty specific. I emphasized that I was sure he could understand how I would be upset to hear some of those things.

He said that she does ask him about it a lot and he says that he "tries to be honest that Daddy is a screw up and that he made a series of bad decisions that led to this place".

In return - I told him that I never badmouth him or his girlfriend with the kids.

And then we talked about car insurance which I had completely forgotten about in all of this.......


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Raliced, good for you for speaking up. Maybe he didn't respond the way you thought, so who knows the real story, but at least he knows you will call him on it when you have a concern. And that's a win.



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I'm glad you were able to address it with him. I hope it changes his behavior, or at least makes him think twice about saying something. I wish I could say something to my H about not talking so much about his girlfriend to D14, but I think he's preparing her for having this woman be a part of her life. So crazy.

raliced, on the legal front, where are you now? Do you have a court date set? I'm trying to gauge how long the process takes. Some seem to go quickly, and others drag on.


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Hey Ahoy,

You know, I realized this morning, that to my knowledge, D6 does not lie to me, but STBX has a rather extensive, significant and recent history - so why am I taking his word over hers? She may have distorted it a bit - but I'm going to choose to believe her. Anyway- he knows I'm paying attention now, for whatever that's worth.

As to your legal question - We have all the documents (child custody, child support and property division) signed and blessed (or rather rubber stamped) by a judge. Basically in California - when a divorce is filed they immediately assign a final court date 6 months out. In most cases when the parties fight about anything, the date gets pushed back. Since we agreed on everything it looks like it will still happen on time mid April. I don't think we even need to be there since signatures are notarized on everything.

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So I had my GAL acitivity of coaching my daughter's BBall team today. It was the last game of the season - with the obligatory pizza party and trophy presentation afterwards. Two things of note happened.

There's a very talented girl on my team who was also on the soccer team I coached and D6's Tball team a couple of years ago. I've seen her and her mom around lots. Never saw the dad until this year's soccer season when he was at every practice and every game. I never thought much about it - and if I did I guess I just assumed he couldn't be there because of work issues (much like my own STBX). I found out today that they had in fact been separated for years (at least 3). Apparently during the time that the girls were in TBall together, he wasn't much of a dad at all and was barely in her life. Now? They are back together and expecting twins in May. So, without knowing a lot of detail - I guess this kind of thing really does happen.

Then the second thing. My dear D3 - who has never wanted to be more than 10 yards away from me, suddenly developed an adventurous side and wandered out of the restaurant unobserved, while I was chatting with a parent. Full on chaos ensued; at least 25 adults scouring the pizza place and outside, Raliced frantically running around and coming very close to hyperventilation, an anguished 911 call...the works. And then we discovered her. She had apparently decided to go back to the car, couldn't find it and wandered the parking lot. And then calm, icy-veined Raliced completely lost it in public, and sobbed on her daughter's shoulders. After that small taste of what is pretty much the worst thing I can imagine... Divorce? Losing STBX? Starting life over at 44? All childs play.

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Quote:
After that small taste of what is pretty much the worst thing I can imagine... Divorce? Losing STBX? Starting life over at 44? All childs play.


Hear, Hear!

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How terrifying. I'm glad you're both ok.


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So glad she is safe, raliced. Yes, everything else is nothing.


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raliced -- So sorry you had to go through that. It really does put things in perspective. Hugs!


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Nothing much to report here. Still hurtling towards divorce.
My MIL is coming on Thursday and we’re going to take the girls to the coast for the weekend. And while she is here to distract them, I’m going to get a few major household projects done – finish setting up the garage to my preferred usage and getting the patio ready to go for grilling season. Alas, due to divorce, won’t be able to afford the better class of grill I wanted till next year. Started GAL of assistant coaching girls softball team.

Two non-sightings of STBX. My sister ran into him in the grocery store while he had D3. D3 immediately started calling out to her, and STBX pretended he didn’t hear her or see my sister, and literally ran up the aisle to abruptly pay for his purchases. Then yesterday, he had to drop off D6’s swim gear that he forgot to return last week. I told him he could drop it off with us at softball practice (it’s an hour and a half round trip). Instead of saying hi to the girls, he just put it in my car and took off.
Finally, I guess I’ve been thinking somewhat about memory. Before I get started on my theoretical ramble, let me reiterate that I’m not talking about the rewriting of marital history – that’s something totally different.

I have what most people tell me is a pretty freakish memory. It’s not photographic or anything. But, for instance, one of my high school friends ran into someone she thought might have been a classmate and since she couldn't remember him – she asked me if I did. I immediately rattled off 4 year's worth of classes we had all had together, all the names of the kids he hung out with and the fact that he inexplicably wore a different Minnesota North Stars hockey jersey almost every day – and I haven’t thought about this kid in 25 years. I only take notes at work meetings so that people feel that I am paying attention, I almost never refer back to them, I can keep dates, contacts, and project plans in my head without any effort. If a family member can’t remember where an old picture was taken they come to me and I give them the year, location, circumstance…you get the idea.

STBX is the opposite. He wouldn’t be able to tell you what he wore yesterday. I don’t think a day goes by that he doesn’t have to reset a password he forgot. I could give a page worth of examples, but take my word for it – it’s pretty bad.

So – how does this relate to our marriage? I think sometimes, that because it’s so much easier for me to remember all the good times, it affected how I looked at the bad times. When I had the first vague stirrings of uneasiness that he might be having an affair, I was able to instantly retrieve all the negative things he had said about cheaters for a decade and all the positive things he had said about commitment and family. I think, in addition to a healthy dose of denial, it really colored my perception of what was probably pretty obvious.

Likewise, I wonder if STBX's bad memory kept him from looking back and remembering all the good things and bonding moments. He didn't have the same emotional touchstone that I did.

Anyway- doesn't affect anything – just something I think about as I stroll around the building to get some air.


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Raliced, glad your D is OK!

My memory is not anywhere near yours, but it far surpasses H's. Your observation is interesting.



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My MIL has been in town since last week. Although STBX picked her up from the airport, she has stayed with me the entire time - no plans to meet OW apparently. If I had been living with a guy for 8 months and his mom came to town and there was no meeting, I think it would bother me - but who knows what they think in that household.

Anyway - I'm blessed with my in-laws. MIL said again that she was so grateful the girls had such a "wonderful" mother.

We took the girls to the coast for the weekend and had a lovely time. During the trip we decided we would vacation together in Hawaii in 2016 - so MIL clearly has no intention of letting the relationship lapse.

Tomorrow is D6's birthday. Trying to figure out how I will squeeze in all the baking tonight. Why does her class have 25 kids - why can't it be a nice even 24, so that I don't have to make two batches of cupcakes to accommodate that 25th kid wink

Lately I think, I would just like to wake up one morning and not have impending divorce be the first thing I think of. I don't think of it in a sad or angry way at the moment - more in sort of wearied way. I have a full slate of GAL activities and a challenging work schedule but I can't seem to kick that topic further down my brain.

Last edited by raliced; 03/17/15 07:44 PM.

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Raliced, that's so great that you and MIL have stayed such good friends. It does not sound as though MIL is remotely interested in meeting OW!

25 - that's a pain! I bet if you do 25, one or two of them will be absent anyway. But if you do just 24, every single one will be there.

I hear you about the train of thought. I wish the same. And I do thought stop and move onto other things....but it creeps back in. There will come a day for us both when that no longer happens & we'll appreciate it all the more...

Happy baking!


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It's D7's birthday! Managed to knock out the 25 cupcakes although there is blue frosting splattered absolutely everywhere in the kitchen this morning.

She is a very precious girl. I can't believe how outgoing and social she is (given that I am her mother) and how fun, joyful and compassionate she can be. I am very lucky.

And now I need to segue off of this happy topic and onto a more perplexing one - namely STBX.

I'm not sure how to explain this exactly. STBX behaves as though he is afraid of me. He set this whole divorce in motion and now has turned completely passive and seems to expect me to drive everything and he defers to me on everything child related. I see the amount of communication that goes on even in very strained situations on other threads and I'm always a little flummoxed.

So - I know that he's supposed to "own" his relationship with the kids - but it was D7's birthday so I sent him a text this morning explaining our schedule for the day and asking if he wanted to call or Facetime with her and if so, at what time. A little background here. STBX has told me since the beginning that his cell phone does not get service where he lives (with OW) and that there is no landline. He told me he would get a landline about 4 months ago for emergencies but nothing became of it. Usually on Sundays (while he is on patrol) , he stops somewhere with free wifi and texts and asks to facetime with D7. I have always assumed that he had internet access at his house because some of the emails that he sent me regarding divorce were in the middle of the night on days that he wasn't working, and that he just hadn't bothered to install wifi.

So today when I texted him it was with the idea that he would have to drive somewhere to Facetime and we should prearrange a time. He texted back that he was available all night, and would leave it up to D7, if she wanted to chat as long as it was ok with me.

I responded that he didn't have phone reception at his house so didn't we need to arrange a time? And as I typed it I realized something. Of course he has had a landline phone all this time. He and OW both are in Law Enforcement and they have to be reachable in case of an emergency. Duh, Raliced, duh. I saw him start a text 3 times before he finally replied "I just had a landline and internet installed".

I did no begging or pleading in my situation. We have been separated for 8 months and in that time I have asked to talk to him (prearranged) by phone exactly twice. Once for something to do with the mortgage and once last week to discuss what he had told D7 about Divorce. I am hardly intrusive. Yet he goes to great lengths to hide everything he possibly can about his living situation to the extent of not initiating any calls to his children when he is home.

When I did speak with him last week, he brought up the car insurance. I confess, that was one detail in this whole thing I had completely forgotten. He told me he had been paying it on a monthly basis since January - the bill and renewal notice went to his house so I didn't see them. But he apparently was too scared or withdrawn to say anything to me for almost three months.

I know none of our situations are "normal", but doesn't this all seem a little weird? I don't get it.


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You're lucky. At least he's being passive and not going after your money or creating custody issues. However, I wonder if he doesn't have something up his sleeve that explains his weird behavior? He's obviously not telling you everything.


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Thanks Ahoy. I don't think he has anything up his sleeve (everything is signed and sealed).

Right after BD, I read all kinds of stuff about the "affair bubble" and maybe his behavior is just a reflection of that - he's just withdrawn as much as humanly possible into another world.

I'm amazed that I'm not more jaded at this point. I felt a little sick to my stomach when I realized he must have had a landline all along.

Last edited by raliced; 03/18/15 08:54 PM.

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If I could explain it I would. I think it comes down to -- if they made the same kind of choices we make we might understand their behaviors better. But we don't. So it's all just nutty.


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Yes, totally nutty. And not something you need in your life. When is your court date to finalize?


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I think it takes such great strength and courage to look inward and make changes in yourself. Unless there is like severe, untreated mental illness or abuse,relationships can be worked on. But not everyone has the capacity to imagine or, more importantly, to dig deep within themselves to acknowledge their role. It's sad, but I think I am finally understanding the part about how it's not "over" until I decide it's over, and what truly dropping the rope means.

It means I have to change my vision of what I thought my H was. He is just limited in his ability/willingness to self-reflective or change. I understand. ..those things are very hard to do because they require us to face ugly truths about ourselves. Not everyone is willing to do that.

I want to be with someone who is. Our WAS will seek someone "easier" or more compatible, but when the reality of their inability to work on a relationship surfaces again... well, they will realize.

It's sad and selfish but out of our hands.


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Thanks All,

You know even as I typed it out - I knew there was no explaining it.

I think one of my remaining fears is the narrative that STBX seems to be creating that, yes he did something wrong, but he's being a martyr now by deferring to me on everything. I asked him if he wanted D3 for a night this week (he wasn't going to get her because his mother was visiting and staying with me, but then something with the schedule changed and it became possible) and he texted "Up to you...doesn't matter to me". Yet, I know he says things to the kids like "poor daddy doesn't get to see you very often". Poor him.

I know I have some say in this and I probably just need to keep responding that it isn't all up to me and that it is his choice. This is how our marriage was - the constant expectation that I would make all decisions, no matter how I tried to engage him. And this, along with the completely unnecessary lies about the phone, and the general withdrawal just makes the future as co-parents seem very bleak.

I love my Ds so much and I just struggle with choosing the right decisions to make this better for them.


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Originally Posted By: raliced
I think one of my remaining fears is the narrative that STBX seems to be creating that, yes he did something wrong, but he's being a martyr now by deferring to me on everything.
Ditto for my WW. She was determined enough to serve me dissolution papers, but now she has become completely passive and conflict- avoidant. So now I am destined to live in D purgatory unless I take active steps to make it happen - including pay for it, arrange the mediator appointments, arrange the Jewish writ of D. I think our spouses' martyr complex is the only thing protecting them from the ugly truth.

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It's Monday - not only the start of a new week, but a bunch of projects at work concluded on Friday and it was the start of spring - so all in all feels like time to take stock and maybe turn a page here.

I know a lot of posts lately have revolved around STBX - I'll get to my GAL here in a minute. I really thought about why the idea of STBX's apparent narrative that I am driving the bus about all things kid related bothers me so much - and I realize I am afraid that this is how he will present it to the kids and also how they might perceive it. And I have a lot of say in that. I'm going to stop giving it so much headspace, rebut him when appropriate and do my best to reinforce with the girls that they have two parents who love them and do the best that they can (even if I don't believe it sometimes). Then I will just trust that they are smart girls (they are my daughters after all wink ) and trust them.

Anyway - I don't talk a lot about my GAL activities which consist primarily of coaching D6's many athletic endeavors at the moment. Originally, I did this because I get to spend more quality with her, I come into contact more with the parents of her friends, and as coach, I get to set the practice times, which eases my logistical issues. Additionally I have found that I just absolutely enjoy it - all those happy kids have a very uplifting effect on my own PMA.

I have also been singing in the church choir, which allows me to spend a little extra time with my elderly mother who always says "I had no idea you could sing!". 44 years and she never noticed I have a pretty good set of pipes. Thanks, Mom.

Finally- I've been doing a lot of work related stuff- pursuing my PMP certification and various other healthcare certifications. It keeps my brain occupied and right now is a necessity to keep my career on the upswing.

All of this keeps me hopping - my calendar is a logistical wonder.

I mentioned last week that I am weary of "divorce" being such a major topic in my head all the time (still the first thing I think of when I wake up). And I still feel that way - just sort of worn out. I think I've been running at such an emotional peak for so long that I'm just plain tired. I'm not a "relaxing vacation" type of person. I like to see new things and learn stuff on my vacations. But for the first time in my life - I find myself fantasizing about just laying on a beach for a few days drinking something out of a coconut.....

Last edited by raliced; 03/23/15 03:48 PM.

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This is a nice post to read...

Just throwing it out there some friends and I just booked an all inclusive cruise (in not normally a cruise person) with all drinks included for a great deal!

Just sayin..


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There were several posts floating around yesterday that seemed to have a recurrent theme of “Who do you want to be in all of this – because you have the power to decide who you want to be”. It percolated most of the evening in sort of a mental back burner. It’s something I know rationally – but the picture in my head is just sort of a vague notion that I should be strong and sensible – it’s not really fleshed out.

Then last night with this all bubbling in my head – I dreamed about my grandmothers.

My maternal grandmother was a 5 foot tall spitfire. She was a twin and one of 12 children, and while not impoverished certainly came from limited means. During her childhood, her twin died, her country was on the losing side of WWI, consequently there wasn’t enough to eat for years, several of her beloved brothers were killed and her mother and father basically died from grief before she turned 15. My grandfather immigrated to this country and it took 7 years for him to have enough money to afford to send for her, and during that time she worked like a dog as a ladies maid. He was living on the west coast and could only get her to Halifax so then she had to work for another year to make her way across the continent. Once they finally married, she lost her first child, because a nurse gave her the wrong drug when she was in labor and basically killed her full term infant (this was in the 30s).

That’s the abbreviated list of her misfortunes. How did I know all of this? Not from her. I learned most of it from my Mom when I was an adult. When Grandma talked about her youth and childhood, she only spoke about the songs they sang as they walked to school (and was always willing to give a demonstration), the polkas she danced (more demonstrations), the funny tricks her brothers would play on her and all the wonderful times they had together. Never a word about the other stuff and never any self-pity, that’s for sure. She was charming, she was happy and she was alive.

My paternal grandmother lost my grandfather to a fever in 1933. She was 28 years old and had 4 children under the age of seven, including a new infant. Her parents gave her a little help; she got no assistance from my grandfather’s family. And again- I don’t really know the details, because she never spoke about them. I know this though – she was a widow with four kids in the middle of the Great Depression and she worked sorting apples in a factory. Not only did she keep her family together, which was a feat in itself, but all four of her kids went on to college and good professions. She was a woman of great faith, who worked tirelessly quilting and sewing to raise money for her church. Her needs were few. She lived on a pittance of social security, wouldn’t take help from her kids and somehow still managed to save up 30,000 in the bank by the time she passed away peacefully in her sleep at age 98. She was one of the most content people I’ve ever known.

Who do I want to be? I want to be my grandmothers. I want to not be defined by misfortunes, and I don’t want to pass the legacy of those misfortunes on to my descendants. I sure don’t want my grandkids to know me as the spurned woman that Grandpa left. I want them to know me as happy, alive and content (I don’t think I will ever be able to manage charming wink ). And I can make that happen.

I know I will still cogitate about STBX, and that I’ll still occasionally wonder “Why”. I know we will have a lot of rocky hurdles to jump over as co-parents. I’ll still have plenty of moments of fear and self- doubt. But, I have to keep my eyes on the prize. Who do I want to be? I want to be my Grandma(s).


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That's inspiring Raliced. and lovely that you have known such great role models. It may well help to think - what would my Grandma's do now?


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Raliced,

Weeellllll, I truly doubt it's a coincidence that you dreamed of your grandmothers. Apparently, your subconscious mind was just chomping at the bit to point out the two women in your life so far that you consider wonderful examples to you (and others, no doubt).

I'm often humbly amazed at the power of transformation and how this universe wants us to grow and change. Yes, I'm a believer in God and give Him full credit, but for the folks that call Him something else, I'll just credit the divine magic of our existence here on earth. Your post is an example.

My grandmothers were much like yours in spirit and moxy. Like you, they are my role models in life. They faced similar hardships and their upbringings were similar to yours in keeping a stiff upper lip and moving forward. My dad's mom had 7 children and lost the 2nd when he was 2 when he fell out of an apartment window when they were living in St. Croix (how awful is that?). She grieved him greatly, but knew that my dad (the oldest) needed her on her game, and she ultimately went on to have 3 more kids who also needed her. She passed away in 2008, and I can only say that my aunts, uncles, cousins and parents all miss her greatly. And the women in the family? We all wish we had a tenth of her fortitude. She lost my grandfather in 1995 and rather than focus on losing her husband of 60+ years, she said to all of us, "I miss the man he used to be, not the sick version of him. I'm still here. So I'm going to focus on all the things that apparently God thinks I need to do. And I will continue to make my family my #1 focus." (She lived in Australia and her kids were scattered among these 2 continents.) I find her my role model in grieving quietly but living with us in the moment.

I was fortunate to have her still alive when I got the bomb. She wrote me a wonderful, compassionate letter that I will keep with me until I die. Funny, I had forgotten that. And funny that now that I think about what she said, it was to continue living my life to the fullest.

Just think. Maybe some day our great grandkids will be on Who Do You Think You Are... and what kind of person do we want our successors to think WE are? cool


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I feel a little guilty for snarking and treating my situation with a little levity - but here goes.....

STBX had girls today. D3 threw up in his truck 3 times this morning - which he shared with me via text along with a comment that it was "not fun". He took her to doctor. The usual tests all came back negative.

Then he said the Dr. gave her a "prescription for committing".

I had to sit on my hands to keep from texting back- "Hey - maybe she could give you one too!"

Instead I just said "huh" and he replied it had auto corrected from "vomiting".

Sometimes the high road is no fun.

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Lol.


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Well - There was an interesting development today. I'm doing my darndest not to read anything into it (and am failing miserably).

I know there are lots of new folks - so quick review. My STBX left me on the day of BD immediately moved in with OW about 45 minutes away and filed for divorce two months later. During all this time - he has bsically withdrawn into a protective bubble with her. I believe she owns the house they live in (although I am not 100% positive - it's possible they rented it together) He surfaces long enough to whisk the kids away for 6 days a month and we have very brief e-mail exchanges about various logistics (We negotiated the terms of the divorce ourselves, and very quickly). He's barely spoken to his own family during this time, although I'm on excellent terms.

One other bit of background. Both STBX are in law enformcement and work for the county in which he now lives. He was in the process of applying for other jobs at the time of BD- but then dropped those plans and has spoken several times about making detective for his current agency (which would give him weekends off).

So today - he texted me that he "doesn't know if I care but he is looking into employment closer to the town that I live in (with our girls)and will let me know if a background check is started (the background check includes interviewing ex spouses) The fact that he would work closer would have no benefit unless he moved closer as well - so I have to think that is on the table.

What does this mean? I have no idea and have tried my best not to descend into a vortex of speculation (without much luck). I do think it's a good sign that maybe he is starting to take the first baby step out of that bubble?

We are going to end up divorced- we are too close to the final date to stop it now. But, I would sure like, at a minimum, to have a warmer co-parenting relationship with him and if he's not in such a withdrawn, secluded place it would sure make it easier. And of course- I'm not going to lie - I would find it a lot easier if OW would go away (I think I could deal with another girlfriend post divorce much more easily). I have no idea if this move to find a new job is a sign of some cracks in that realtionship. After all, I guess she could just be planning on moving with him (if a move is even an option), although that seems unlikely.

So much for trying not to speculate. I can't help it - this is the first little tiny good sign I have had in 8 months.

Last edited by raliced; 03/29/15 03:20 AM.

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Hi Raliced. Pleased to hear that. And as you say - who knows, but time will tell for sure. Your BD is similar to mine, and 9 months or so often seems to be a time when things can start to shift. Who knows the bliss bubble may have burst...

Equally, it may not be that and you already know to keep expectations at zero. He could want to be closer to his kids and is moving OW back closer to town. Hopefully not, but it's a possibility - hence the zero advice. Note it, go Hmm? for a day - and then keep the forward momentum going. If H wants to catch you up, he'll let you know for sure.

Pleased for you if it is a tiny sign of movement in the right direction though...


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Thanks Toots!

I know better than to have expectations. I did swirl this bit of info around quite a bit yesterday - today I'm back to shoulder shrugging.

In addition to everything else - I doubt that STBX is entirley logical right now - he may have the vague idea that he'll see the kids more by working closer to them but not necessarily living closer to them (He's made a few decisions since BD about practical matters that are wildly irrational). And it could very well be a financial decision. His current county is one of the lowest paying in the state.

That being said - it is the first sign of moving away from his inertia, and he did chose to notify me of this well before he needed to (the application process for these agencies is always months long) - so I'm going to do my best to up the friendliness a bit when I do see him - and monitor results. Couldn't hurt.

Last edited by raliced; 03/29/15 02:45 PM.

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Good for you Raliced - ponder for a day then back to shrugging - perfect! This is what I strive towards - don't always manage it....

I'll be interested to see how things go. And as you say, it's a positive chink perhaps...


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Started Operation "It couldn't hurt to be more friendly" this morning.

STBX has D7 all week for spring break and escorted her to a soccer camp this morning. I actually initiated a text exchange which I never do, and responded to one with a smiley emoticon.

I'll keep this up for a while and monitor results (if any)......


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Hi Raliced. Just my two pence worth. As a famous person on these board said , do what works , How you gonna know what works unless you try ! !! Positive thoughts. Take care. Rd

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Raliced

I'm not 100% on your sitch but couldn't help but notice some recent similarities.

My H was gone to us and pretty absent in the first few months.

Then he started reaching out about things we used to talk about. I ignored it because I didnt want him to cake eat. I still didn't have the DB thing down.

Anyway when the boys started basketball where we had to be around each other a couple hours a week I started to experiment. I would smile at him from across the court (this was about a month in) before that I kind of let him take the lead but I was fun laughed and had a good one and so did he. Then I experimented with not engaging - he was an a*s!!

Who knows what this is from your H. It may be nothing or there may be trouble in paradise and he's seeing if you're receptive to him being friendly. Just thought I would play Devils advocate a little

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Hey chickie,

Quote:
I'll keep this up for a while and monitor results (if any)......


I think this is the best plan all the way around. Who wouldn't like to speculate on these new developments? It would make good chatter with a bottle of wine (or two). But probably unproductive as hell and a waste of a bottle of wine!

You're a pretty savvy DBer. No matter what the outcome is, you're a winner in my books. Trust me, this skill will come in handy when your daughters get to the age where you're on opposite sides of the planet.


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Texted a little back and forth today with STBX about D7 and her soccer camp. He was pretty chatty and gave me a fairly full description of how her offensive vs defensive skills were coming. Probably the longest text I've gotten since BD. Will continue on and see if anything develops.

So I do have an issue that I've been thinking through and I'm not sure entirely how to approach......

I know in an earlier thread, I mentioned that STBX has started chewing tobacco again (D7 relayed this bit of info). My MIL and I discussed it when she was here a few weeks ago and she said "I bet he's smoking again too". Apparently before we met and dated he was a full on smoker....I never knew this (I had the impression that in his youth he smoked at the occasional party). Sorry to offend anyone here, but my grandfather died a miserable death from long cancer after smoking a daily pack of Lucky Strikes for most of his life, and I have strong, negative opinions about that particular habit.

So, much to my horror, last weekend, D7 started to pantomime that she was smoking, including a blissful expression as she inhales and a spot on imitation of the exhale - quite the miniature Bette Davis. She doesn't watch any movies or television where people smoke. There's no parents at any of her extracurricular activities that smoke. So that leaves two possibilities - either she's getting it from the other kids at school (who are hopefully just pretending), or she's seeing it at her Dad's. Remember when I was griping about how they always insist on doing all the girl's laundry with the smelly detergent? Suddenly, that little detail seems more sinister.

Of course - I asked D7 where she had seen people smoke, and went so far as to ask if she had seen her dad smoking and she insisted she had just been watching people do it in cars that drive by. And honestly, she seemed pretty uncomfortable. There was too much detail in her imitation for the car story to check out.

So, I'm not sure how to approach this. This is one area, where I don't remotely care if STBX gets mad should I bring it up- but based on his recent track record, if I ask, I'm pretty sure he would just lie to me.

I was thinking of telling him about D7's pantomime and saying something like "Of course, we don't want D7 to get the idea that there is anything glamorous about smoking - so I just wanted to make sure you were aware so that you could help reinforce the message".

I dunno - thoughts?

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Well, I've read and re-read and came to the same conclusion both times so I guess I'll say what I'm gonna say. wink

First of all, my MIL passed away in 2004 from a heart attack caused by her emphysema. She was on O2 as long as I knew her. It was an ugly death, she was emaciated, and as far as deaths go (I've seen plenty during my 10 years as a hospice volunteer), this was really hideous. My own parents smoked heavily, and because of that, I do not choose to endorse the filthy habit. I have friends that smoke, and I honor their choices. But I have a smoke free house, smoke free car, and a smoke free work place. I also will not date smokers.

That being said, I would leave him out of it, cease mind reading and just keep your communications open with her. For the past few years, there have been some horrifying PSC commercials out there - the guy with the stoma that talks about shaving difficulties (using the vibrator to talk); the woman Sherrie who was a cheerleader in high school who looked like a barely alive skeleton and ultimately died. Use those commercials as a talking point with your D7. While my D21 is an athlete and despises smoking, those commercials really made an impression on her.

Keep your fight in your own house. Otherwise, it's stepping into the realm of "none of your business". She's your business, and the only thing you can do is educate her if you really and truly think you need to do that.

My sister used to hide my mom's cigarettes all the time. We both hated having our small smoke filled house. Neither one of us EVER wanted to smoke. Yet we did the pantomines as well. We bought those candy cigarettes (WHO thought that was a good idea???) and pretended all the time. It never translated into a desire to migrate to the real thing. Chill.

So in case this isn't clear, I vote for you not to bring this up to him. It seems a little OTT and controlling. Not to mention a wee bit judgmental.


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LOL. Now that you mention it, I did the candy cigarettes too! Fair Enough. I'll let it go.

And anyway - when push comes to shove - I know that he knows its an awful habit.....I was truly stunned to learn that he used to smoke at all, which is part of the reason its been on the brain a lot.

I'm still getting used to the "None of My Business " thing. I understand it - but I'm still in the habit of thinking all things child related are my business. I know that's not the case.


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But, wait guys. Raliced, are you thinking he's smoking in front of the girls, as in, they are breathing second-hand smoke? That's serious stuff to me.



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Originally Posted By: rppfl
But, wait guys. Raliced, are you thinking he's smoking in front of the girls, as in, they are breathing second-hand smoke? That's serious stuff to me.


X2

i know there's this whole 'not your business' stuff (which I admit I am really no good at) but there are some things that are and if you truly believe this is a significant possibility I would investigate however you can and approach this without sounding accusatory. Sometimes it's not what we say but how we say it


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You know RPP, I did consider it. There was a time, when I would have said "STBX would never do that", and of course now I have a little voice in my head that says "You never thought he would cheat and walk out either!"

But....I still really can't see him doing that. And frankly, if that much smoking was going on, all the laundry detergent in the world wouldn't be able to hide it. I'm sure the smell would cling to their skin and hair somewhat. I thought, that if he is smoking, he is probably sneaking outside occasionally.

I'm still going to keep the possibility in mind though. If they were breathing second hand smoke routinely, I agree it would merit a discussion.

And on another quick topic. I set up a Cozi calendar with STBX and was filling it out for the next few months. I sent him a message asking if he was going to take Father's Day off and which week he wanted to take with the girls (this was part of the custody agreement - we each get at least a week in the summer to take the girls on vacation if we want). He replied that he "didn't know anything about it". Apparently he didn't pay any attention to that part - even though he had to sign off on it? I know this is a recurrent theme that I see on other people's sitches, but I really don't get how nonchalant and disengaged he is about all of the details of divorce. It baffles me.

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I think a lot of WAS' just expect to sign on a dotted line and everything is going to be like the movies.

They are in fantasyland


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I've spent the morning texting back and forth with STBX. He has both girls and will be returning them this afternoon (Yay!). Both last week and this week - D3 has started vomiting while at his house. He was trying to figure out what was causing it, mentioned that the house was spotless etc. My guess is there is some sort of allergen in the air that is really abundant where they live right now?

So first off, this is just part of divorce that blows. I hate that my children sleep elsewhere during the week - and knowing that they are sick while I am not around exacerbates it. Does it ever stop feeling unnatural? Gah!

And this circumstance kind of brings up two things...

I've been mulling around the topic that came up on my thread earlier this week. When it comes to the kids and they are in their father's care - when is something my business and when is it not? I guess I feel that anything that has to do with the health and well being of my minor children is my business. (And I'm not really talking about the smoking thing here - I accept that I was probably making a mountain out of a molehill on that one and my evidence was pretty flimsy anyway).

When I try and envision what a future as "co-parents" would look like - this is one area that seems pretty muddy.

And - I want to give STBX credit here - he does seem to proactively tell me when they are sick and basically asks me what he should do. And that brings me to the other topic that bothers me.

The "none of my business" thing pops up because I really have no idea about what goes on at their house and for obvious reasons STBX is not very forthcoming. However, honestly, for most things that require a child related decision- STBX seems to want to defer to me. For example, when I ask a question about how he would like to handle something on the schedule, the answer is inevitably "whatever you want" or "whatever you think is best" or even "I will defer to you". I've tried phrasing the questions differently, asking open ended questions, not even asking the questions, directly saying "No, STBX it is your choice" and the end result is always the same.

This is what he did during the marriage. The fact that he didn't want to own any decisions was a huge source of frustration for me, that I addressed directly many times. And then after BD, I remember saying to my DB coach that it felt like he always wanted me to drive the bus and that now he was upset about where I drove us. I guess I'm a little worried that the same thing will happen now - that he will expect me to make all the kid decisions and then resent me for doing so.

I'm not very articulate today - I hope this makes sense.

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Hey Raliced,

If I type something insane, it's because I forgot my glasses and had to swing by Walgreens for a pair of readers that don't exactly work the same way. (My keyboard looks like it's tilted downward - WTF?)

Anyway.

Quote:
Does it ever stop feeling unnatural? Gah!


No. My kids are 21 and 18, and I've never felt good about it. It did get better when my D21 left for college. For some reason, it hit a reset button for me and gave me a little more perspective. Your role as a mom will change, but your title? Nope.

Like you, my XH deferred to me and then resented me too. I can't stop him from how he interacts with me, but I'll share what has helped somewhat in how I interact with him. When he says, "whatever you want to do" I say back, "If I were hit by a bus tomorrow, what would YOU do? I'm asking for YOUR opinion." It's made for a much better co-parenting experience.

I will tell you that this process was a lifesaver for me when my now D21 was 16-17 and we were barely speaking to each other. (BTW, that period lasted until she left for college.) It seemed as though we just couldn't get on the same page. While we were having a rough time, her dad had the benefit of not living with us and being the person who could speak with both of us. I credit him for helping us bridge a very difficult time.

It's also helped now. I've been uber busy with guardianship and my family caregiver classes. Busy enough that I haven't had time to devote to her current path of interviewing for internships, that process and talking things through. Her major is chemical engineering, and her dad is an EE by education. I haven't even had the time to wish it were me she was asking, and I'm really glad that he can help her in a field where I left more than 20 years ago. It truly has lightened my load.

What I'm trying to say is that there are long term benefits for everyone if you can "teach" him how to step up to this role. His deferring is out of habit. You're a new, improved Raliced and he just needs some time to see that.

I'm sorry your youngest is sick. Hope she's feeling better pronto so she can get back to normal. We've had a stomach bug floating around here for the past 6 weeks. It hit me last week, and I felt like I was going to vomit for a day. Don't know if she just ran into something yucky? After all, she's 3, and 3 year olds seem to be magnets for that kind of thing (distant memory that never really goes away).

You're doing fine. Really.

Happy Easter to you and your girls.

Betsey


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Thanks Betsey- Good stuff to mull over.

Happy Easter to you as well!


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Originally Posted By: rppfl
But, wait guys. Raliced, are you thinking he's smoking in front of the girls, as in, they are breathing second-hand smoke? That's serious stuff to me.


And from me especially in a car!

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Really feeling on the upswing today. First of all, I have the girls back (D7 was with her dad all week) and we spent the morning coloring eggs. I confess to being a total kid about the holidays. I enjoy playing with the dye every bit as much as my daughters do. STBX always had to be cajoled into joining us.

Did a really nice job on my solo at the Good Friday service last night and D7 beamed with pride.

D7 announced that she has now has a boyfriend and we had a fun yet touching conversation about how she can always talk to me about her boyfriends.

Took D7 to a swim clinic for her swim team. Sunny day, happy, excited kids, D7 is doing awesome....and 45 minutes of quiet time to read on my kindle while she is practicing. Next year D3 will be able to particpate and I was happily anticipating that

D3 left the light on in the back seat of my car last night, and I handled recharging the battery (it's a Prius and I had never had to do that before) all by my lonesome (this would have definitely been STBX's job before).

There are a couple of shows (Wolf Hall and Outlander) that are on this weekend. Previously, I would have recorded them on the DVR because STBX wouldn't have been interested and then I wouldn't have ever gotten around to watching them and instead I can lounge around and enjoy them to my heart's content after the girls are asleep.

In short, it's not uncommon for me to think about all the losses, but for whatever reason today I guess I am really in the mood to think about all the little improvements in day to day life -no more compromises, more space to enjoy things I love - and my relationship with my daughters seems to only be strengthening. Maybe I'm really absorbing this sense of Easter renewal.

Happy Easter to all,

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Love your post, Raliced. Happy Easter!



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Quote:
it's not uncommon for me to think about all the losses,


I know what you mean. I get caught in this too.

Happy Easter. wink


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Love your post, Raliced! Happy Easter to you as well! Having a couple of favorite shows to look forward to has gotten me through this, I swear! wink


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Happy Easter, enjoying the boyfriend idea!

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Originally Posted By: raliced
In short, it's not uncommon for me to think about all the losses, but for whatever reason today I guess I am really in the mood to think about all the little improvements in day to day life -no more compromises, more space to enjoy things I love


It is nice that Easter gives us a chance to reflect on renewals.
I'm trying to keep this frame of mind everyday.

It's definitely helped bring me out of those valleys that have popped up along the way.


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Quote:
There are a couple of shows (Wolf Hall and Outlander) that are on this weekend. Previously, I would have recorded them on the DVR because STBX wouldn't have been interested and then I wouldn't have ever gotten around to watching them and instead I can lounge around and enjoy them to my heart's content after the girls are asleep.


I'm an Outlander fan too. I read the series (at the time, 4 books) when my D18 was a year old. I was hooked. So when my D21 asked me last summer for a book recommendation - specifically "One I will never want to put down" - I handed her my dogeared, beat up paperback. She's had to take a hiatus with school, but she logs into my Dish Anywhere and watches too. Sigh.

Quote:
In short, it's not uncommon for me to think about all the losses, but for whatever reason today I guess I am really in the mood to think about all the little improvements in day to day life -no more compromises, more space to enjoy things I love - and my relationship with my daughters seems to only be strengthening. Maybe I'm really absorbing this sense of Easter renewal.


Awesome paragraph! It's empowering, isn't it? If you have to lose a spouse and your marriage, this has got to be the silver lining in the cloud. I had no idea.

Great job, R.

p.s. Starz says the demographic for the Outlander audience is 50-50. That shocked me...


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Still feeling in a really positive place. Love that the upswing is lasting so long this time! Yesterday I saw STBX when he dropped off girls and for the first time I really felt mostly ambivalent, although for some reason I felt a little twinge when D7 told me he bought her an Ipad for her birthday.

There's still some cloud in my silver lining though. I realized that I've become a lot more cynical. I work in an office park areas where there's always a lot of workers out taking walks. When it's a couple walking together - I find myself looking for wedding rings and wondering if one of their spouses will find themselves on DB soon. I feel myself becoming a little hard and I don't want that. Hopefully, it will pass eventually. When I see those couples - I am trying to stop my thoughts and just enjoy the exercise and lovely weather.

I did have something meaningful happen this week. 5 years ago, I sent in a cheek swab to the national marrow registry and I've been notified that I'm the closest match to someone who needs a blood marrow transplant. Had a lengthy interview with the transplant coordinator where I had to answered a bazillion questions confirming I have not engaged in any high risk behavior (no - I have never had mad cow disease or engaged in sex with HIV infected prostitutes) and then signed off my consent. They're scheduling me for some additional blood work next week. So, I guess I feel kind of good about that - I hope it turns out I can help this person.

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What a wonderful thing to do raliced, I hope it all goes well.

I love reading your threads, you just seem to cope with everything and are creating a wonderful life for you and your girls. Your H is a fool.


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raliced, you never fail to impress me! That's wonderful that you might be a good match for a transplant. What an amazing gift. Your H is a fool to lose a woman like you. Good things will come your way.

I too catch myself feeling "hard" about love (or maybe just less naive)? It will be difficult to allow myself to be vulnerable again, but I think that's just something that happens in time. It will come.


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Had a pretty good weekend. Lot's of kid activities (opening day for softball, swim clinics etc). It's already time to sign up for next year's soccer season. I signed up D7 and registered as a coach again. I also started getting my soccer coaching license. After this year, D7 will be eligible to play on a competitive team, but they struggle to find coaches, so I figured I would start working to get the licenses well ahead of time.

The hot tub wasn't working (jets weren't circulating), but after some quality time on You Tube - I was able to figure out the problem.

Instituted a "kids cooking night" on Saturday - we will do our best to always cook a kid friendly recipe together on Saturday night.

Planted a ton of annuals, got the rest of the yard sprayed and started the vegetable garden.

I wonder why it is so much easier for me to get stuff done without STBX around?


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Again, I should really be following your sitch more closely. I tend to find Nice Guys and beat them to a pulp with the book, but you have a very similar timeline to mine and seem to be going through the steps at a similar speed. It's nice to see the female perspective. Oh, and you're into statistics!

Originally Posted By: raliced
There's still some cloud in my silver lining though. I realized that I've become a lot more cynical. I work in an office park areas where there's always a lot of workers out taking walks. When it's a couple walking together - I find myself looking for wedding rings and wondering if one of their spouses will find themselves on DB soon.

Haha! Same here. I wrote a few months ago that I imagine myself arguing with every attractive woman I meet. What does she look like angry? What upsets her? Does she scream? What would get on my nerves after a while? After months of convincing myself that WW will soon be back to square one with OM, I've convinced myself that passion never lasts. I see myself being infatuated with the next girl for a whole of 3 seconds until these thoughts come back to me. In any case, even though I see myself in a couple again and being in love, I don't think it will ever be with the abandon I had for WW. It was the first time I was madly in love with a woman AND with her!

I'm glad to see that you're capable of focusing on yourself and GAL, despite having a fairly fresh sitch. I can feel myself going there too, even confessing recently that R might not be a good idea anyway, and sometimes I feel guilty or puzzled that I'm not more attached. I've worked months to detach, yet when it starts to happen, I don't feel that much relief.

I like that you created a kids cooking night. Kids love routines and traditions. Mine love to help, but I thought they were too young for this. I might reconsider.

Good thing for the blood marrow!


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Originally Posted By: Mozza
After months of convincing myself that WW will soon be back to square one with OM, I've convinced myself that passion never lasts. I see myself being infatuated with the next girl for a whole of 3 seconds until these thoughts come back to me. In any case, even though I see myself in a couple again and being in love, I don't think it will ever be with the abandon I had for WW. It was the first time I was madly in love with a woman AND with her!



Thanks Mozza! One thing I should correct - I mistyped when I said "blood" marrow- it's actually bone marrow. IRL, I'm a Healthcare Analyst, and I was coincidentally dealing with some lab reports that day - and must have had blood on the brain. Whoops!

Anyway- I'm interested to read your thoughts regarding future relationships. In this area, I feel like a bit of an outlier on these boards. Lots of threads talk about what they want in future relationships or just the general possibility of having one. I don't ever really wonder about it, other than to think in a very general and mostly practical way that it would be difficult to marry again. I just have a hard time envisioning how that would look with my kids and my home, although I know people do it all the time. You know, I never really wanted to be alone - but I'm mostly ok with being so - although there are a few obvious things I miss.


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Yeah, I typed "bone marrow", then went back to check your post and saw "blood" and, since English is not my native language, I thought "I thought marrow was... oh well, it might be a thing!"

I was thinking of a new relationship more towards the beginning of my sitch. I was very concerned about how I would fit someone in this situation. For instance, at my age, I'll likely meet a woman who already has kids, and all that comes with it (schedules, ex-H, etc.). Or a woman who's in a hurry to have kids because she's almost 40. And I don't want any more, or at least I don't want to make a rush decision in the first couple of years of a relationship I don't want to have two separate families on my hands, should another D occur. So, for that reason and others (kids), I would think that the only person that fits perfectly into my life is WW, hence we should really reconcile.

Since then, I've moved my focus more towards me. I'm more interested into casual dating, as you know. And yes, that means ONS, FWB and the likes. That's another kind of relationship and commitment, but not the ones we talk about here. Then again, I can tell that my urge is to connect emotionally with people, that's how I've always done it. I'm afraid of falling for the first person to whom I'm rather physically attracted. I've done it once, twelve years ago, and it created a bit of a mess. I expect that 2-4 years from now I might start to panic and want to build something with a new person. I don't see myself alone for a long time. I feel whole in a couple and I miss this feeling already. But also, I can't see myself lowering my standards just to be in a couple.

As for finding a person that fits, I'm not as concerned now. I think of the "world of abundance" of NMMNG. I realize now that I tend to see a lot of shortages in love and relationships, so it makes me clingy to whatever scraps I find (like a woman cheats on me twice and who's parents reject me by birth) rather than setting my standards until I find the right person. I'd say this is the general message of my IC: Be confident, put yourself out there, be relentless in finding the right person. I also see that WW doesn't click all that much into my life. I don't know that I'll ever trust her not to do it again, because her A seem to be in line with her personality and beliefs (not in cheating, but in passion, the lives of celebrities, romcoms, seeking personal happiness, girl power as self-sufficiency, etc.)

Also, she's from another country and it was always going to be a mess, moving continent every 10 years. I have dreams that are incompatible with this, such as designing my own house and being with my parents in their old age. She left, the awful transition is behind me, I'm starting to be excited about this new life, why do I want to go back in this precarious place where it may happen again in 5-10 years (abroad!) because she's bored of the routine and met yet another handsome, sweet-talking colleague?

At the same time, I'm proud that I really loved her, that I was going to honor my vows and make this relationship work. Though I had my role in the M failings, I won't bear the responsibility of the D or the A. I still consider myself marriage material.

OK, your turn!


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Mozza #2556909 04/13/15 08:12 PM
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Good topic raliced, Mozza, ahoy! I have found myself in the same place the last few months wondering how anyone could ever make love work and just seeing relationships fail all around me.

I'm hoping to lose the "hardness" as you said Ahoy and raliced. But I don't know that I will. I have been burned pretty badly twice now by two very different guys. I guess now I just think cheating is a part of the deal. When I meet a new flirty guy I always think he must have someone at home and is just being bad. It's very cynical, but then it often turns out to indeed be the case. Friends are having affairs with married people. It's a mess out there!

I mentioned on my thread that I met an intriguing new guy recently. Interestingly enough I immediately pegged him as married and was convinced he was a sleazebag hitting on me with his wife at home. Turns out he's single... So I guess I am in a bit of a cynical place indeed. When a very attractive man approaches me I immediately brush him off as a nasty lying cheater. Why?

How can we get over this cynicism?

Hugs, Lisa

PS: you are amazing raliced! smile

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Hey Lisa! Good to see you again! And you're right, this is turning into an interesting conversation.

I do worry about this protective "hard" shell I feel forming. I think I've handled the practicalities since BD pretty well and I've also done an ok job on the GAL and PMA. However, there's no denying that I have been thoroughly betrayed and rejected by the one person in the world who quite literally swore an oath to never do either. And that has wounded me deeply-there's just no other way to put it. I don't think I will bounce back from it any time soon. And that disillusionment seems like it will be a hard hurdle to get over. That's the core emotional reason that makes it difficult to imagine ever entering into another relationship.

And there are others. I've built a life I'm happy with. I love my home, and my sister's family and my elderly parents live on an adjoining acreage. I can now be there when and if my parents need some additional help. My kids get to be around their cousins all the time and have a close relationship with them. I live in a rural area - and have more than the ususal number of pets. All of which is something I really wanted, and I would be very loathe to give up. So someone would need to fit into this life - and that seems like it would be asking a lot.

And let's be blunt. I started my family pretty late in life. A lot of men and women my age have kids in High School or even entering college. I'm a 44 year old woman with young children and I'm very, very cautious about the idea of bringing anyone around them. I was pretty protective to begin with and this experience has only heightened that. I know there are a lot of successful blended families out there- but I find the prospect intimidating. And even before that - new relationships, are by their nature, pretty blissful, and I would be worried that would take away from the time, passion and attention I need to give my girls.

Mozza - I was interested to see your comment that you feel more whole while in a relationship. A lot of the female posters, myself included, have commented the opposite, that this experience has allowed them to start finding themselves again (or my confirmation bias might be coming into play, and I'm reading what I want to see). I don't feel that I got completely "lost" in my marriage - but now that no compromises need to be made - it is a lot easier to feel a strong sense of self - and I would never want to lose that again. So- another hurdle for this mythic future relationship.

I'm a little jealous of your ability to pursue casual relationships. Actually, in many ways that seems like the "solution" to some of these worries and problems. I certainly believe that consenting, available adults should do what they want to. But.....I'm just not built that way (it's probably that Puritan heritage rearing it's head again wink ).

So - all these things add up to my just not giving a lot of thought to the possiblity of a new relationship. You never know what will happen - but I just can't see myself actively looking or pursuing anything.

Last edited by raliced; 04/14/15 01:21 PM.

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Gosh, can I relate to this topic or what? Raliced, your post really resonates with me. I completely relate to all of what you say. I cannot imagine (and boy do I have a vivid imagination!!) bringing someone new into my kids lives. I'm not opposed, I just simply cannot imagine it happening. I trusted x Mr. GB implicitly, and while I agree everyone can move forward and have a wonderful life, I don't know if I agree with some that think you *get over* this. I do feel like this alters you permanently and it is your choice how you proceed. Still, it is virtually impossible for me to imagine trusting someone like that again. 2x4 me. I'm okay with it:)

Lisa, although you are a little younger and have no kids, I totally hear you as well. I have this giant wall (what am I saying? It's a freaking fortress!!) built around me and I don't see if coming down anytime soon. Part of me simply doesn't want to deal with anyone's caca. Call it self protection if you want, but part of me simply doesn't have the capacity at this point to deal with a R.

Mozza, I think casual Rs are great. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is any such thing as no strings attached. There is always a string somewhere....I can relate to feeling whole in a R. I think most cultures view a R as a *desirable* thing so I understand that concept. However, I can also relate to the many female posters who say they feel like they are finding themselves.

I don't know. Everyone is different. I admit I am a tad envious of individuals who seem to just move seamlessly from R to R and find many people attractive. I don't, so that is a completely foreign concept to me. I am rarely attracted to people so........... I guess we will all figure it out in our own time:)

Last edited by Georgiabelle; 04/14/15 01:40 PM.


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It's nice to have this conversation with women.

LisaB - I can relate to your cynicism. The romantic in me is very, very ill. I responded more on your thread yesterday.

Raliced - It's very interesting that you feel more yourself now. My WW left me saying this is what she was seeking. For me, it's different from feeling whole. I also feel more like myself now, without the compromises of an R. But much like having a job or kids make me feel connected to the human experience, so does being in a couple. I even love the responsibilities that come with it. The other day, I had a crying fit watching House M.D. because a husband was asked to make life-or-death decisions for his unconscious wife and I was so sad to have been stripped of that responsibility. Have I been untrustworthy? That's an example of feeling whole to me.

Georgiabelle - About finding people attractive. I always told my wife that she was the most beautiful woman in the world and, my honest assessment is that she was in the top 5-10% for me. I wouldn't even look at other women, and my W and friends made fun of me for it. On the other hand, I liked to observe people and look for what's attractive in them, what their partner may like, and I could almost always find something, even in the ugliest people. After BD, I was repulsed by every woman who was not WW. Now, I'm back to finding something attractive in anyone, although not necessarily for me. I think my physical criteria are back to where they were before I met WW. All of this to say that my attraction is strongly related to my emotional status.


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Georgiabelle

I am with you. I don't think I will ever trust or love anyone again. My walls are soooo high. I too don't think I cold ever bring anyone new into my kids lives. I just don't feel comfortable with it. Call me paranoid or bitter, but that's my hoest emotion.

Right now, anyone I see repulses me in the dating sense. I am not the sort to drift efortlessly fromR to R, I never have been. I have alwyas been cautious who I let into my life for the very reason of not getting burned and caught up in their B.S.

Ahhh..... guess we carry on....on our own time tables whatever they may be. My poor Mother can't understand why I just "can't get over it already". i have given up trying to explain my feelings to her. I don't have to justify my emotions to her, they just are and I have to work through them at my own pace.




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I've been having similar thoughts although I don't see it so much as a wall barring trust or love.
The way I've been thinking about it is something more along the lines of this:

During the DB process we read a lot about relationships and how to build healthy relationships.
We learn about boundaries, how to speak love languages, how to validate another's feelings and many other relationship related topics.

Then I stop to consider that maybe most people haven't had exposure to any of this.
How are we supposed to feel connected to anyone and feel like it will be positive and last without giving them some DB related homework.
Sure we can try to set the example from things we've learned, but how long before it becomes too one sided?

When I start thinking of this I keep imagining every Jan. 1st sitting down with the two of us to take the 5LL quiz again.
That way we make sure we still know each other's primary love language.
Or something along those lines.
How long before that becomes cumbersome to the R?
Maybe I'm taking maintenance of the R a little too literally. :-/

New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...139#Post2557139

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