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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537773&page=10

NEW THREAD- W called me last night, but i missed the call. I have not responded to it or anything. I figure that if it was important she would call back or leave a message. I hope that i am correct in this thinking Or should i just send a text saying i missed her call and ask if she needed anything? Kinda being pulled both ways here with this one. thanks guys for all the help.

Last edited by RysinMn; 02/13/15 04:42 PM.

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Tried to reply to that earlier, but you were locked.

I think your instincts are right. If it was important, she would have left a message or called back. You could always shoot a text (now that some time has passed) that says something like: "Hey! Just noticed you called. Let me know if you need me." That way, you're acknowledging her attempt at contact but doing it in a way that is detached (you're not calling her OR asking her an open-ended question that may appear as though you are trying to engage her in conversation. It's amazing what the WAS looks at as "pressure.") But I think you're also fine leaving it alone.


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Don't respond. If it were important, she would have left you a message and/or called again, or texted or emailed you. To return a "Missed Call" just makes it look like you're hanging on like a puppy dog waiting for her to call.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Ok so I didn't see your post starsky until I had already sent a message. I said "noticed I missed your call, do you need anything?" That's all I said. She said sorry butt dial. Which I don't buy. Not with her phone lol. I think she was fishing. Did I show my hand at all. I think I could have used some different wording like something instead of anything but I didn't want to come across cold.


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I think you did fine....try not to mind read though....:-)


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Originally Posted By: RysinMn
I think she was fishing.



Yep. And you bit. wink


Not a big deal, though. Live and learn.


Starsky


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Bahhh, I dont think i got the entire hook though, I at least knew what she was up to but i didnt want to come across as ignoring her or anything ya know. kinda a "i'm here; but not at your convenience kinda thing" that is why i waited till this morning to send the text. Guess i didnt do too good a job at it. lol rookie mistake. Next time i know, i guess like you both said if she really needs something she will call back or leave a message. lessons learned i dont think i took too big a step back at least.


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hey there toots, were you refering to me thinking she intentionally called me to fish as mind reading? if so i will do a better job next time to re-affirm myself next time and not look into anything.


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Don't get too bogged down in the small stuff, Rysin. Live and learn, but also don't use that as an excuse to KEEP slipping. wink

Even though I just said all that, though, I'm gonna bog myself down in a couple of details in the hopes it helps us note how a small difference in communication - or even the way a sentence is worded - could make a larger impact:

Here's what I pitched, if you chose to respond at all:
"Hey! Just noticed you called. Let me know if you need me."

Here's what you wrote:
"noticed I missed your call, do you need anything?"

It may seem I'm splitting hairs on semantics, here, but I promise I'm not trying to do that. Can you see the difference in those two approaches up there? It's small but noticeable. And it's even something I "warned against" in my post; in the very next sentence after I pitched what you could respond with:

That way, you're acknowledging her attempt at contact but doing it in a way that is detached (you're not calling her OR asking her an open-ended question that may appear as though you are trying to engage her in conversation. It's amazing what the WAS looks at as "pressure."

You ended with an open-ended question. If you had ended it with a statement instead, it wouldn't have seemed to her that you were there at her beck and call. You were ending like, "Hey, just holla back if you need anything." Instead of, "Do you need me?????"

See what I mean?

Again, don't bog yourself down in the small stuff. Just learn and move on so that a bunch of little things don't end up adding up. wink


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yeah i did notice that after i had sent it. i will make sure to manage closed ended convos. from here on out! i thank you guys for all your info and support.


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It's a pleasure to help. smile


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Ok folks I have a little bit of a pickle I need advice with. W and I have a mutal friend, her friend first and she is closer to him as well. He has been having a rough go at things back home. And we have offered for him to come chill with us multiple times. He asked me since I live in home now if offer was still open I said yes. Would be nice to have company. So he bought a ticket for next week and will be here a month.

I know I should at least inform W of him coming right? I don't want her to happen upon him Here And be angry. He wants to suprise her. What do you think?


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Why tell her? I don't see any reason to


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Well she comes to the house daily. And she is gonna find out one of her best friends is in town and staying with me. You don't think she will get pissed? I wanna be mysterious but not cause more drama ya know.


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Does he know what's going on between you and W right now? Does he understand she isn't staying at home?


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I agree with twin. I see absolutely no reason to inform W. She is the one who left you. She has no say in what you do right now. And she doesn't need to be notified. Your W has fired you as her H. If a boss fired you from your job, would you feel you needed to keep him updated on what you're doing at your NEW job? I mean, would you CARE if your new actions at your new job pissed your old boss off?

See what I mean?

She's calling the shots for HER life. You're calling the shots for YOURS.

Simple as that.


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Yes he knows from both sides. Well he told her anyhow so I guess that is that. She is not happy. I guess she asked him who's friend he is lol. I will without a doubt not let her into our business at least. She can wonder all she wants. You are right I am my own boss.


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Awwwww poor wittle baby. Starting to feel a wittle consequence for her p!ss-poor actions. Welcome to the dark side, Sweetheart.

mad

You're your own boss. Exactly. Keep your chin up.


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Originally Posted By: Train
Awwwww poor wittle baby. Starting to feel a wittle consequence for her p!ss-poor actions. Welcome to the dark side, Sweetheart.

mad

You're your own boss. Exactly. Keep your chin up.











YEP!!!!


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Update- so my counselor suggested to think about cutting all ties with W I mean splitting accounts everything. Because she feels I am still sitting in limbo. I feel I am doing pretty good dealing but maybe it is a good Idea. What do you guys think? If this is my course would definitely have to hammer out the details and then that would be it. Thanks gals/guys.


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Hi Rysin

It's still relatively early days in your sitch, and limbo is not necesarilly a bad thing right now. It does give some time for things to unfold and become clearer - and can be helpful if there's an OP involved too. Gives a little time for the gloss to wear off for them...

For me, I had an initial plan (stay with parents - 5 months) and then a new 6 month plan (rent a flat) but I do now need to look at longer term finances to stabilise my position. Because I recognise I'm here for the duration now, and I don't want to worry about money.

Without looking back, have you seen a L? That may be a good starting point, just to understand the options. Also, if you do take steps, you needn't feel 'that would be it' - you would just have separated your finances, nothing else...


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If you haven't seen a L see one. It's awful and feels like another nail in the coffin but you need to think about you and your position. It's better to be informed now rather than getting a bolt out of the blue six months down the line.
As far as separate accounts etc I don't see anything wrong with that as long as your happy. Don't do it in expectation that she'll suddenly want you back. I need to move some direct debits to wife and sort our joint accounts before I leave. Not to shock her but because we seperating hence separate accounts and not paying for stuff I don't use anymore.
I would say don't do anything in haste just to try and shock your wife. I see many people on here and other sites slapping D in straight away. I don't see what the rush is. Step back. Breathe let the dust settle. Don't let your emotions make decisions for you.


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Thanks for all input everyone. I hAve been thinking about this and will continue to give it thought. But I am not in a big hurry right now. Thanks again all.


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So to update everyone, things are going ok. I have managed to find some buddies that come around almost daily. Seems to be helping especially with the detachment process. It's nice to have company Inc those moments when you start to feel weak. I have begun to journal as well in hopes to keep things off my mind as much as possible. Was having a bad go oF it when trying to sleep. But it seems journaling right before bed seems to really help. Again thank you all for the support. Going on 5 days of 0 contact with W. Going to do my best to not have any contact with her.


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Sounds like you're doing well Rysing. I also found journalling helpful in the early stages. Many times I sat in bed feverishly writing, and it does help to get it out onto paper. I don't do it so much now, but it's always there to go back to.

Nice that you're spending time with friends, and good luck with the NC! :-)


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Wouldn't say I'm doing well I still miss her terribly daily. But I hope to stay the course and things will eventually getvbetter


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Good morning- Today has not started out so well, work is dragging by and all I can do is think about W and OM. It's really tough sometimes to be able to pull yourself out of that funk you know you’re either headed to or already in. I found myself worrying about the future and saddened that I might be alone for a long time. But then again I guess there is no better time to find myself than when I am forced to be alone. I have gotten out almost daily this past week and at those times it did feel ok. I still thought about W but not as much as times like this. I thought that journaling right before bed would help but I am not seeing the results that I was hoping for. I still dreamt of her and woke up feeling angry and resentful; this is an almost daily cycle. I wish there was a time table when things would start to get better we have been apart a month and I don’t see any signs of a reconciliation any time soon. She really seems to be enjoying herself without me. That is actually a very harsh reality to accept. But I will keep breathing until one day the pain lessens and I can look forward to a brighter day. I need to stay strong and resist my urge to talk to her.


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Rysin,

Are you interacting with W at all right now? Is she stopping by the house? Anything?


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She comes by some days but I'm never home. Since our separation only talked twice in person and a handful by text and email combined. So really no interactions. I do not follow her social media life either. Is this a good or bad thing.


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I'm asking if the little contact is good or bad for us.


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Give me a minute to stew on this. How long has it been since you have been dark?


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Well I talked to her by email a few days ago. And then today she actually showed up while I was about to leave. She said do I need to move the car I said no that is ok I'm taking my bike. I then said I got the parts for the car in so we needed to coordinate on when I can fix it. She said ok np we can figure it out. When I can back she was still here. She said sorry I am running behind. I said that is ok not a problem. I went up and showered and she left. That was the extent of our conversation. I felt like she was waiting around a little longer walking back and forth maybe to draw a conversation out of me. I wanna talk to her so bad. And not about us. Just talk anD b.s. like old days. I really hope I am not doing more damage than good. But we separated one month ago, and I have done my best not to talk with since then. I have sent a few emails and only one text that was not in response to one of hers.

Last edited by RysinMn; 02/18/15 05:25 AM.

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A WILD HAIR- I had a crazy idea to send her an email. i didnt want to come across needy or pursuing, but i was thinking i wanted to let her know that communication can continue it does not have to be dead. and it could help us. i wanted to say something like this. " W i know that we are in a bad sitch ATM but do you believe it is helpful for you and i to continue down this path of not talking. just remember that if you need to talk or you want to talk my door is open." that is what i wanted to say. but i knew it would not be a good idea. so i sit here quiet and grab advice from you all. thank you; everyone for all your help.


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Yeah. Your instincts are correct ... again. That email is not a good idea.

Rysin, things are not going to feel "easy" for a long while for you. And there are no guarantees that W is going to see the changes you are making and come running back. (PS What ARE your "changes"?)

I ask that, but there's a part of me that thinks she just up and left because she needs quality time and maybe she isn't "made" to be married to a man who is deployed (IOW, there may be no "changes" you could make - besides getting out of the military - that would help make her happy). Let me be honest: I think, if that's the case, then she's a coward who should have never married a man in the military.

In the interest of full disclosure (and I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but it has nothing to do with ME, so I will): My sister, who I've written about recently on these boards to someone else, D my BIL, an Army officer, *while he was in active war in Afghanistan*. She offered excuses. But to me, there was no excuse. Her H, my BIL, called me from Afghanistan, almost daily, after BD, searching for anything - ANYTHING - to save his M. He was over there, fighting a war, and she was backtracking their S to the time he left to hurry a D before he even returned home.

All that, even though she was the one who actively pursued him, an Army officer, knowing what all that entailed.

I'm just saying that there are some people who aren't cut out to be long-term, devoted spouses of military (wo)men. There are no guarantees in your sitch. But an email to your W, to let her know that your "door is open to talk and/or listen" while she's disrespected you so much as to sleep with another man while you were off, serving your country, is absolutely NOT the honorable thing for you to do.

I'd rather you get MAD right now, Rysin. I'd rather you see your sitch for what it is: You are sacrificing for your country. And it appears as though ONE of those sacrifices, at least for now, was your M. You deserve better. You deserve someone who is LOYAL to you while you are putting it ALL on the line to be loyal to your country.

Why WOULD you leave your "door open" to someone who turned his/her back on you that way?

For me, personally? Yeah, I'll admit it: I want to hear stories of your W stopping by your house and you looking and smelling and acting better - and more assured - than you have in YEARS. That's why I asked if there's been any interactions. I want to know she's SEEING the bada$s Rysin. Not the sad, sappy Rysin who emails the woman who is cheating on him, telling her that his door is always open to her to talk (about what? What a wuss OM is???). No. I'm curious if W is being exposed to the RISING Rysin. Tha MAN.

THAT is who she needs to "happen" in to at home when she stops by.

Trust me: the relationship with OM is growing old by the day. The last thing you want to do is present "old Rysin" as an "option." No sir. You're something familiar. But you should be something fresh and new. Something confident. Something masculine. Something - dare I say? - HARD TO GET!!!!

Be creative in how you pull this off, but make sure she sees that Rysin is RISING.


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I am doing my best, i have started hitting the gym more, i was always strong and muscular but now i am toning my body more. i have made it my point to be nice and cordial and smile when i see her. but be a little aloof. I keep the house spotless that way when she comes in she wonders why the house is always so clean. i always did the bathrooms and the dishes but now im cleaning everything even vacuuming and i make sure my bed is made every morning. and do a little spray of my new different cologne lol. I am currently waiting for my new sheets to get here. they are going to be sexy!....by the way. and now i cook almost every night something she never let me do. i do allot of riding on my bike, with some of my other military buddies. gone out a few times but i am trying to avoid that area. Planing a camping trip i hope in a few weeks and hitting a few events like concerts and such. i really wanna learn salsa so that and my advanced open water dive cert. are big ones. so i am doing things its just hard because i never see her and im not sure if she see's the changes. the wild part is OM is military as well so why would she chose that. But then again we cannot begin to understand her reasoning. Like i tell everyone that knows. W is not W anymore she is not herself and she will not act like herself. and if she does act like herself in public i guarantee she is hating life in private.

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Your sitch, for some reason, just breaks my heart, Rysin.

You're a good man. I know you miss her.

Please just keep plugging away. One foot in front of the other.

I'm loving the GAL stories!! Rise and shine, Rysin!


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yeah well my sitch has turned my heart to squash lol. I hope that her seeing me today doing my own thing helps in whatever way that is. i know who i am and what i deserve, she was an amazing woman once i am not sure what happened or how it got this way we were always amazing together. Without a doubt fire and gasoline. and then i come home and poof gone. i just cant help to see the woman i loved for so long so devotedly in there still. i just wonder if she believes she is still there or if she is lost for good. i guess only time will tell. thank you train.


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Hey Rysin

Your doing the right thing. You are working on you. We have to remember DB is not so much about saving your marriage as it is about saving yourself. It is her loss if she decides never to recommit. You have to remember that. Keep focusing on you buddy. In the long run that will get you through to the other side.
Definitely don't send any needy emails. Its hard I know. I feel like doing the same. You feel like bloody shaking them to wake them up somehow. It wont work. Be the best you can be.
If you wrote an advert for a dating site what would it say?
That you are still sat around wishing your wife would come back and you never go out and your miserable? Not going to get much interest. Or that you are super fit, in great shape, love biking camping, outdoors and trying new things. That would be the one that gets all the hits. It is out of your control what your wife wants to do.

chin up we all have days worse than others.


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Originally Posted By: Train
Yeah. Your instincts are correct ... again. That email is not a good idea.

Rysin, things are not going to feel "easy" for a long while for you. And there are no guarantees that W is going to see the changes you are making and come running back. (PS What ARE your "changes"?)

I ask that, but there's a part of me that thinks she just up and left because she needs quality time and maybe she isn't "made" to be married to a man who is deployed (IOW, there may be no "changes" you could make - besides getting out of the military - that would help make her happy). Let me be honest: I think, if that's the case, then she's a coward who should have never married a man in the military.

In the interest of full disclosure (and I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but it has nothing to do with ME, so I will): My sister, who I've written about recently on these boards to someone else, D my BIL, an Army officer, *while he was in active war in Afghanistan*. She offered excuses. But to me, there was no excuse. Her H, my BIL, called me from Afghanistan, almost daily, after BD, searching for anything - ANYTHING - to save his M. He was over there, fighting a war, and she was backtracking their S to the time he left to hurry a D before he even returned home.

All that, even though she was the one who actively pursued him, an Army officer, knowing what all that entailed.

I'm just saying that there are some people who aren't cut out to be long-term, devoted spouses of military (wo)men. There are no guarantees in your sitch. But an email to your W, to let her know that your "door is open to talk and/or listen" while she's disrespected you so much as to sleep with another man while you were off, serving your country, is absolutely NOT the honorable thing for you to do.

I'd rather you get MAD right now, Rysin. I'd rather you see your sitch for what it is: You are sacrificing for your country. And it appears as though ONE of those sacrifices, at least for now, was your M. You deserve better. You deserve someone who is LOYAL to you while you are putting it ALL on the line to be loyal to your country.

Why WOULD you leave your "door open" to someone who turned his/her back on you that way?

For me, personally? Yeah, I'll admit it: I want to hear stories of your W stopping by your house and you looking and smelling and acting better - and more assured - than you have in YEARS. That's why I asked if there's been any interactions. I want to know she's SEEING the bada$s Rysin. Not the sad, sappy Rysin who emails the woman who is cheating on him, telling her that his door is always open to her to talk (about what? What a wuss OM is???). No. I'm curious if W is being exposed to the RISING Rysin. Tha MAN.

THAT is who she needs to "happen" in to at home when she stops by.

Trust me: the relationship with OM is growing old by the day. The last thing you want to do is present "old Rysin" as an "option." No sir. You're something familiar. But you should be something fresh and new. Something confident. Something masculine. Something - dare I say? - HARD TO GET!!!!

Be creative in how you pull this off, but make sure she sees that Rysin is RISING.



whistle whistle whistle whistle


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Today- W came home after midnight last night, we do not live together but she left the car at home and took her scooter out lastnight. When I got up I saw she had left the scooter outside with her keys still in it. The keys were to her office and home. So I sent her a text. "Good morning You left your keys in the scooter, I will leave them at your office." She said thank you. I did not respond. Within an hour i received an email from W saying she wants to make an appointment to get her oil changed in her scooter. She then asks me if I could take it in for her. I was going to do it before she said anything but now I am wondering if I should say I can't and have her do it. I know that ATM I am fired as her H. So I feel like I shouldn't be doing H duties. But I enjoy working with vehicles. Same reason I fix her car. Maybe I should stop all of that. I was told today by a buddy since she is not treating me like her husband I need to stop doing husband things. Including laundry. When she comes home she will put some of her laundry in my hamper, I do not pick it out since it is such a small amount I just wash them. I was told I should pick them out and not touch them. What do you guys/gals think? I'm hoping that today is a better day.


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I would reply something like "Sorry, today is nuts; that doesn't work for me."

As for her laundry, I would almost always advise you "NO, do NOT do her laundry!" (at this stage) ... but since there are just a few items, and she throws them in with yours?? I think it might look PETTY if you separated them out and left them, hmmmm, not sure about this one. Maybe throw them in the washer and the dryer, but then just leave the items in the dryer while you fold yours and put it away? Do you typically fold it for her too?

Starsky


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I would say no to laundry and working on the car. Big girl panties....
Would you take your neighbors car for an oil change? Nope! I bet they wouldn't even think to ask something like that.

Treat her like you would treat a neighbor.


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Hi Rysin

I hope today is a better day too. In terms of the laundry - if it's a couple of pairs of pants and a T shirt a week, you may want to just chuck them in with yours, otherwise you could look like you're trying to make a petty point. But if there's quite a bit of laundry going in there, I would certainly leave it for her to do herself.

I think mimimal husbandly duties are called for in this kind of sitch - mostly because you're busy living your own life of course!


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More later, but I say this for now:

To this very day, it makes me sick sick sick and mad mad mad to know that I was picking up my H's dirty underwear - (sorry, in advance, for the visual) with OW inside them - when I did his laundry. You can bet your A$S that if I had KNOWN he was screwing around, his dirty laundry would have been the LAST thing my fingers touched.

Hijack alert: Starsky, did you know there's a folder in your FB messages titled "others"? Totally annoying. But you totally should check it out!

Signed,
Train, who used to get paid to dig cool


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Starsky,
Thank you, that is what i am going to do as far as the scooter goes. The laundry is very minimal i mean very minimal like a shirt or workout gear thats it on a typical weekly basis. But i do fold it and i set it on her dresser i do not put it away. I will try and be more neighborly instead of husbandly. I just worry about the vehicle and want to make sure it is running right and safe. But i guess i can bite the bullet and she can take it in. thank you.


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Originally Posted By: RysinMn
Starsky,
Thank you, that is what i am going to do as far as the scooter goes. The laundry is very minimal i mean very minimal like a shirt or workout gear thats it on a typical weekly basis. But i do fold it and i set it on her dresser i do not put it away. I will try and be more neighborly instead of husbandly. I just worry about the vehicle and want to make sure it is running right and safe. But i guess i can bite the bullet and she can take it in. thank you.


She fired you ... not your problem at the moment.


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just to make things clear she usually throws it in the washer but does not run the cycle i do that. then i dry fold but never put away and it is very minimal. thanks for all the advice everyone it is helpful. The feeling of anger and anxiety are a bit better today, and i would think it would be worse after seeing and talking to her yesterday. but its not.


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You are right.... thank you!


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ok this is what was said and how i responded. i have not sent it yet. i want your opinions.

Wife-Is there something wrong with your bike?

The scooter needs its 300 mile tune-up. I was going to call and see if it
can be done today. Since you are riding it would you be able to take it
after work?


now i have only rode the scooter once witch is today! but that is why i asked you guys because i have rode it and does that commit me to fixing it.

Me- I have ordered a part for my bike, so waiting for it to come in.

As for the scooter, sorry, today is nuts; so it doesn't work for me. You are more than welcome to set up the appointment and do it. The scooter will be at the house later or you can take it from work and leave me the vehicle until you finish.

Last edited by RysinMn; 02/18/15 08:44 PM.

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I'm wondering why she only gives you a few things to wash. Is that all the laundry she has? Seems like she is just giving you some little tasks to keep you holding on to the string.


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Good job. Do as little as possible for her.
Although I have actually done her oil change finally. 4100mi over, I told her no before then she asked again a week later, she very busy I get it. So I told her, 'I'll do it but only bc we will most likely be bankrupt by the end of the year and I don't need us to pay for an engine damage right now'. Plus it got a sensitive topic for her to her very mad, and I don't need any more confrontation right not, it proved that it's not working at all. And i do t know why I felt obliged, maybe bc she is the bread giver and helped me a ton too, plus she doesn't use the vehicle to sleep with OM...

As long as you don't face escalation or so, just don't do sht for her! Especially she being with OM...hell no.


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I am doing my best; most everything i do is for me. I will back off the car and make her pay for it. And once i get a consensus about my email response i will send that and decline the scooter. i have to be honest it kinda feels good to do alot of things around the house on my own. and i dont think she expected me to do those things. On the flip side she is expecting to come over this friday and groom the dogs! should i allow her to or should i groom them myself and cut her off at the pass. this has always been her job and they are both our dogs. but since i kicked her out i am the sole care taker accept for those 1 hour visits during the week. just curious as to how i should play that card. I am thinking it would be nice for the dogs to spend more time with her. they really do miss her. and i can tell they are missing her. so trying to look at what is best for them and not so much me putting it to her. what do you all think?


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Hey rysin

I thought you were separated so how is her washing ending up with yours?

As we're still in same house I'm just doing washing as usual Mine d8 and wife. Would be pretty petty to separate out my own. Just not worth the argument.

Would I fix her car though when I'm gone or do her washing. Absolutely not. No way.
I'm wondering what she might still be expecting me to do when I'm gone. Wouldn't be surprised if she asks me to chop the wood for the fire. Lol


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she comes over from 5-6pm most days to see the dogs while i leave the house, before coming over she goes to the gym to do her exercise routine. so when she comes to the house she will throw the dirty cloths in the washer but not wash them since its usually only a few items. then when i get dirty cloths i throw them in and wash hers along with mine.


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Ahh right. Hmm. Difficult one.
What would your neighbour say if you just threw your gym gear in his washer?


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i understand but don't you think that is a bit petty. I know i am suppose to be independent and strong but a few pieces of cloths. its not like she brings her entire wardrobe to the house. but maybe i am wrong and i will have to stop it.


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I would maybe cut her back to two or three visits a week. BGPs. "______, considering where we are right now I think it might be best if you only came by a few days a week to see the dogs. At some point we may end up apart, and I don't want that to be too abrupt for them, y'know?"


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maybe it is petty? Maybe it's her just having that one last little bit of control? I don't know. I Read into everything my wife says and does now. I don't believe any of her motives are for any other purpose than making her feel better. Maybe I'm just losing the plot 😁


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I have been giving that allot of thought. The problem is she would probably take the dogs if we split. Being in the military unless i am a certain rank i would not be able to keep them if we are to Split for good. What did you think about my response to her email starsky?


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I thought it was fine.


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Rysin,

Every once in a while, USE that 5-6 p.m. timeframe to your advantage. Don't make it obvious. Don't do it too regularly. But use that time wisely.


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And fwiw, if W is just throwing things in the washing machine, I don't see a problem with you running a cycle once it's full. You can fold her stuff and place it in its own basket or something. I like how you handled the bigger issue with the scooter. Well done.


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I definitely plan to use that time to help me. Gonna dress up really nice in the coming days with everything cleaned and me smelling amazing. Yeah buddy it's going down.


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Originally Posted By: RysinMn
I definitely plan to use that time to help me. Gonna dress up really nice in the coming days with everything cleaned and me smelling amazing. Yeah buddy it's going down.


Have fun.

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Attaboy.

cool


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thanks it will be easier now that i have a buddy coming in for a month. and he is one of her best friends so i know she is going to wanna see him. he thinks he is going to set her straight and i just laughed i said dude, your not going to bring her back. she is going to have to find her own way back or she is not going to find it at all. but he thinks he can. i said give it a shot but know i want no part of this and i brought you out here to get away from you problem. so we shall see how crazy this month gets.


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Wow ok guys this is what i just recieved from W upon sending that email about scooter

W- OK, I made an apt to take it right after work and leave you the car. What is
your schedule like today?

Also, it would be nice to have an honest and realistic discussion about what
we are going to do with our situation. Those discussions tend to get heated,
so I'm not sure how you want to do it. I am open to suggestions.

i replied with- are you talking about lloyd. (which is her friend)

response

W- I am referring to us. But there are also a few things to discuss about LJ visiting.

Last edited by RysinMn; 02/18/15 11:28 PM.

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What do you need to discuss?


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Passion, yet serenity.
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Where is train when i need her for a Womans perspective


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Does anyone have a copy of my "4 Types of Conversations" list? I'm not in front of my computer at the moment, so I don't have access to my archives.

NOTHING good can come from a convo while she's still wayward.

Starsky


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I do not know for sure she is wayward. She stays with a friend. And w and OM have a no contact order. we do not communicate. I'm not sure how to handle this.

Last edited by RysinMn; 02/19/15 02:20 AM.

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I sound like an idiot. I kicked her out a month ago because she was having an EA with OM and had a previous PA witg him while I was gone. W believed she was in love with him when I kicked her out. There is no way she came around that fast considering two weeks ago she was slamming me for the NC order he received. She is probably gonna ask for D. I know it's mind reading but he'll should I not prepare for worst. If we do talk


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Wayward is any person who has left the M. Your W is wayward.

Hang on. Let me dig for what Starsky referred to. Have to switch to my computer, but I can't guarantee I will find it.

Point is, Rysin, you should settle in for a while. There's no point having a discussion with her. It's futile at best. At worst, it's destructive.

Hold tight.


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Doh. Two minutes. Personal record. wink I think this is what Starsky was referring to:

Types of Convos

Exactly. Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:

1) NEGATIVE ones. Blame-making, re-writing marital history, angry outbursts, fight-picking, etc. 'nuff said.

2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.

3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.

4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.

5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?


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That's a great post train. I recognise all those situations above.
Got hit with No1 last night. Regularly get No2 not had to deal with 3 yet 4 we briefly talked about, 5 I get every day.

Rysin I would tread real careful. As you already know things just don't turn around that quick. If it is a divorce talk then you need to stop the conversation and refer it to your L.
I'm not sure I'd want to get in any talks. I made this mistake 2 weeks ago where she was balling her eyes out all weekend throwing bones of hope at me I got involved was weak and gave her and me comfort. 2 days later she was back to lying and meeting OM.


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Train,
Oh boy where to start, so W shows up at my house and says she wants to talk about our mutual friend that is coming into town and how we are going to split time spent with him, so i agree. Sly little bugger she is. She then transfers into talking about what we are going to do about our situation in the future. I said I am not comfortable talking about this right now. She says listen i do not want to talk about feelings or anything i just wanna talk about facts and the future of us. So slap my head with a 2x4 I agreed. she started by stating that when we were happily married that we both agreed that we could never live with infidelity. she says, you kissed a girl once and everything else was fuzzy so you say, and i got an emotional attachment with someone back here. did not mention the PA. she then states these were our beliefs and she still stood by them. I ask so what are you saying, she said i just don't see where we go from here. i said ok i understand that its a tough spot we are in right now i can see how you feel that way. i then said lets keep looking at facts. once when we were happily married you stated that you could never see how someone would cheat on their spouse yet here we are a product of that same belief and fact. why do you not stand by that belief like you are the one that ends with me and you ending.

i then said to her, let me make this very clear W i do not want a divorce. i still see some sliver of hope. She tried to play the im miserable card. she look at me and said, i've lost 10 lbs, im on meds now, i am completely unhappy and i refuse to live this way. i look at her and i said, so you believe by getting rid of me you will be happy. she said i dont know but i think so. I asked if this had anything to do with OM she said a little bit but most of it was from the way i handled the entire situation. again trying to throw blame on me and say i have done everything my way and never cared about her feelings, and all she wanted to do was go back to doing acrobatics and gymnastics. I said you can do all those things still. She got angry and was like no i cant since you put that NC on OM i cant go do those things. i said look no one is telling you, you cant go. he is the one that needs to leave. she tried defending him choosing acro over her. i said doesn't it show you something that he chose acro over you. and i left it at that.

As the convo went on it was apparent what she was trying to get me to do. as we would talk the circle kept coming back to that NC on OM. i finally told her look, i want to try and make this work baby steps and then who knows but it is obvious you don't want to. she states that she cant give me what i want cause she is in love with another person. I looked at her and said if he is what you want so badly then you know what you have to do. I played her card back on her. i said you need to woman up and file for D. at first she agreed and started walking with the idea but i never backed down. i kept telling her its not what i wanted but if she filed i would not stop her.

She then asks me why i never followed through with the plan that was in the book that we were trying out when i got back. it was called "surviving the affair" i said because you could even go two weeks without contacting OM. she instantly says yeah well there was also plan B why did you never follow through with plan B. now plan B is to allow your spouse to go to OM/OW and for you to go totally dark. legally separate and let them find out what was what. So now we have come to the full reason of the visit and the entire conversation. She used everything in her arsenal to soften me up to try and get me to remove the NC on OM so she could be with him and let us try " " plan B. I said what kind of man would i be to drop the charges and just let you go sleep and live with another man. she tried drawing into another argument. she asked me what i would have done to OM if i was not in the military i said i probably would have destroyed his face. she goes well at least that is the manly way to handle things. I looked at her ans said listen i do not like how you are talking to me and if you continue we are going to have to end this conversation. so we go around the D word allot her saying she see's no other alternative and me saying i don't want it but i will not stop her from filing each and every time.

Finally she says i don't want D i just want for you to try plan B with me. i said why does plan B matter if in the end you are not going to leave this island with me why does it even matter. you already said you will not leave with me. i said so D me and go live your life. well boy how the too changed. so anyhow i said i could not answer her right then on the plan B thing and i need to just think. she said she needed to think as well. and we left it as that.

tomorrow i am going to see a lawyer and see what my rights are. this has really taken a turn for the worst. but then again i knew it was coming and i knew the moment she started talking what her angle and ploy was and i didn't fall for it. i'm not going to make it that easy on her. sorry for such a long blog


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Sorry, man -- we tried to warn you. YOU GOT AMBUSHED, as was foreseeable.

More later, when I'm on a regular keyboard. She (and you?) are NOT understanding "Plan B" correctly. It's NOT to be instituted by the cheating spouse, and it's NOT so that the cheating spouse "can go be with her OM"!!!!!


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ahh sorry to hear this.
Think you knew this was coming though. defo go and see that lawyer. do not put it off any longer. You need to know where you stand for your own piece of mind


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Originally Posted By: RysinMn


She then asks me why i never followed through with the plan that was in the book that we were trying out when i got back. it was called "surviving the affair" i said because you could even go two weeks without contacting OM. she instantly says yeah well there was also plan B why did you never follow through with plan B. now plan B is to allow your spouse to go to OM/OW and for you to go totally dark. legally separate and let them find out what was what.


She TOTALLY mischaracterizes what Harley's "Plan B" is! It is NOT to be initiated by the wayward spouse, and its purpose is NOT to "allow" them to go carry on their affair, in some sort of sick "test drive" while the betrayed spouse sits and home and plays "Pick Me!" mad It is for the BETRAYED spouse -- after a period of being the best-new-them they can possibly be ("Plan A"), to then (if the cheating spouse still refuses to end their affair) go completely pitch-dark on them. I've read the suggested scripts for it, and NOWHERE in there is there ANYTHING that even smacks of "permission" for the cheating spouse to continue cheating!

But then I suppose you already know that. I'm just saying for any others reading along.


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Rys, my advice at this point would be to see a lawyer and go totally "RobX" on her. You repeatedly telling her "I still don't want a divorce," and "I still see a sliver of hope for us," and defending your position is only weakening you further in her eyes (notice her interesting comment about "being a man" buried in the middle of her rant up there ^^^) -- it's killing attraction, and ATTRACTION is the first step back towards reconciliation.

ATTRACTION ----> RESPECT ----> LOVE ----> RECONCILATION

Maybe it's time for a "You know, I've decided that this totally isn't working for me, either" speech and stance.


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Yeah. What Starsky said. I especially liked this, because I picked up on it, too:

(notice her interesting comment about "being a man" buried in the middle of her rant up there ^^^)

I can't stress enough how important attraction is here. And this is so, so, spot on: defending your position is only weakening you further in her eyes ... it's killing attraction, and ATTRACTION is the first step back towards reconciliation.

Starsky has already pointed out that you guys are wayyyy misconstruing (I was going to use a far more vulgar word that characterizes a lot better what you two are doing to it) "Plan B." But let me see if I can go into some detail about how Plan B works:

As you know, a true Plan B is going completely dark ... but NOT to give your W permission to continue in an A. THAT, to the contrary, is what we call an open M. Plan B, essentially, is you stepping completely out of the picture with W to leave her with a more positive impression of you (because, technically, you're supposed to employ "Plan A" - being the best Rysin you can be and making positive changes in yourself - first). And in Plan B, you absolutely DO NOT condone her A, but you *do* step back and allow OM to meet all her needs. Meanwhile, YOU get your sh!t in order. You become - genuinely, and not just to woo W - the best Rysin you can be. In this process, you will naturally begin to detach from W and her choices. You will begin to feel better. You will become more confident. You will care less about what your W eventually decides. And all this <------ is attractive. (I know it seems backwards that your W will find you most attractive when you get to the point that you really don't care which way the wind blows your M. But you just have to trust me on this.)

Anyway, while you're getting your life together, you're letting OM meet all W's needs. If their A follows the normal trajectory of an A, he's not going to be able to meet her needs for long, Rysin. As I believe I've gone into with you before: He will start seeing her warts, and she will start seeing his. That's when As blow up: when two fundamentally-selfish people - who are thinking only of themselves - start playing a little game of tug-of-war: OM cares only about himself. W cares only about herself. You do see how that likely won't last, right? That's why most As end.

Plan B doesn't mean you sit back and WAIT for all that to happen. It gives you time and space to work on you and for the A to blow up. And when it blows up, there's a handsome, confident, genuinely happy Rysin standing there. (Please note that I did not say "waiting" there.) That's who W is going to see. And instead of comparing you to a hot, confident, smooth-talkin' OM, she'll be comparing a self-absorbed, whiny OM to YOU. You essentially flip the script. And that's where/how we are brought back to this: ATTRACTION ----> RESPECT ----> LOVE ----> RECONCILIATION

***

Listen Rysin. I don't like how you let W pull you into the R talk; that's a given. But it's in the past. I'll be honest, though: I don't read the "doom and gloom" that you're feeling when you recounted the discussion. Maybe she's trying to "nice" you into dropping the charges against OM. That's definitely possible. But most cheating spouses spew a lot more venom than I read from her; most are ready for a D *yesterday*, and they'll tell us LBSs that real quick.

Your W, IMO, dropped some valuable hints for you in the convo. She's on the fence about D. And she wants you to handle things like a MAN. (Does this sound familiar??? wink )

So give your W what she's asking for (except dropping charges against OM; once you've committed to that, you're best to stick to it): Give her time. And handle things like a MAN.

And, yes, get to a L. That doesn't mean you have to take any action right now. But knowledge is power.


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Oh, and ...

Maybe it's time for a "You know, I've decided that this totally isn't working for me, either" speech and stance

Agreed.


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Originally Posted By: RysinMn
thanks it will be easier now that i have a buddy coming in for a month. and he is one of her best friends so i know she is going to wanna see him. he thinks he is going to set her straight and i just laughed i said dude, your not going to bring her back. she is going to have to find her own way back or she is not going to find it at all. but he thinks he can. i said give it a shot but know i want no part of this and i brought you out here to get away from you problem. so we shall see how crazy this month gets.


You need to be running real tough with your buddies for the next 3 months or so. I wouldn't worry about a thing she is doing and get caught up in the excitement of your GAL. Let one of your single friends plan it for you. Act, feel, be single for a minute. What was wife is now on a detour.

Be responsible to yourself, take care of yourself, enjoy life.

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Originally Posted By: RysinMn
I sound like an idiot. I kicked her out a month ago because she was having an EA with OM and had a previous PA witg him while I was gone. W believed she was in love with him when I kicked her out. There is no way she came around that fast considering two weeks ago she was slamming me for the NC order he received. She is probably gonna ask for D. I know it's mind reading but he'll should I not prepare for worst. If we do talk


OM might not have signed up to be responsible for her. Just there to have sex with her. SO she might have gotten her dose of reality. But stick to your guns.

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Ok,
So i first and foremost want to say that i know exactly what plan B is. I am not the one who is confused about it. it is her. That is what i was trying to explain to her, its not a "fine you couldn't stop contact with plan A so go ahead and go be with him and find out if you want him kinda thing". I was under the impression that i was working towards plan B with the seperation and the 180 and GAL things they are essentially the same from my point of view. Train, i want to give her what she wants but she is wanting me to drop the NC on OM. I will not do that, and she feels that the only other alternative is for the D. But from where i am standing there were a few positives from that convo now that i can sit and look back at it. She doesn't want a D but she is depressed and going through with drawls, that is how i saw her. As far as me repeating that i did not want a D it was in a context like this. W- "I just dont see how we can fix us, this relationship just cant be fixed when i am in love with someone else." M- " Well you already know my stance i do not want a divorce, but if you feel this is what is best then you file and i will not stand in the way!"

everytime she tried to urge me into making a decision i would say something to the point of this is not what i want but i will not stand in your way if this is how you feel. i never got emotional or anything. and when i walked away at the end of the night I hurt but i also knew that there is a glimmer somewhere in there.

So my question is this how do i do things more manly without being a Dbag. I AM ALL EARS ON THIS PART. The only thing it seems she wants is freedom to do what she wants without any consequences. And i am not going to stand for that.

I told her " there are boundaries that i have set and i will not allow myself to be pushed beyond those or for anyone else to walk on them. It has become clear to me that you have fired me as your husband and you do not care about my well being, I am standing up for myself and looking out for my best interests. and i will not be manipulated into violating one of my core values! i told her that!

Last edited by RysinMn; 02/19/15 09:13 PM.

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Originally Posted By: RysinMn
Ok,
So i first and foremost want to say that i know exactly what plan B is. I am not the one who is confused about it. it is her. That is what i was trying to explain to her, its not a "fine you couldn't stop contact with plan A so go ahead and go be with him and find out if you want him kinda thing". I was under the impression that i was working towards plan B with the seperation and the 180 and GAL things they are essentially the same from my point of view. Train, i want to give her what she wants but she is wanting me to drop the NC on OM. I will not do that, and she feels that the only other alternative is for the D. But from where i am standing there were a few positives from that convo now that i can sit and look back at it. She doesn't want a D but she is depressed and going through with drawls, that is how i saw her. As far as me repeating that i did not want a D it was in a context like this. W- "I just dont see how we can fix us, this relationship just cant be fixed when i am in love with someone else." M- " Well you already know my stance i do not want a divorce, but if you feel this is what is best then you file and i will not stand in the way!"

everytime she tried to urge me into making a decision i would say something to the point of this is not what i want but i will not stand in your way if this is how you feel. i never got emotional or anything. and when i walked away at the end of the night I hurt but i also knew that there is a glimmer somewhere in there.

So my question is this how do i do things more manly without being a Dbag. I AM ALL EARS ON THIS PART. The only thing it seems she wants is freedom to do what she wants without any consequences. And i am not going to stand for that.

I told her " there are boundaries that i have set and i will not allow myself to be pushed beyond those or for anyone else to walk on them. It has become apprant to me that you have fired me as your husband and do not care about my well being, I am standing up for myself and looking out for my best interests. and i will not be manipulated into violating one of my core values! i told her that!


Most of what you say as a LBS is "blah-blah-blah-blah".

I wouldn't try to have long drawn out speaches with a WAS.

However, you can SHOW her your core values that you don't allow your friends to walk over you and you definitely aren't going to still be helping them out if they do.

Kindest regards.

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Originally Posted By: Train
Oh, and ...

Maybe it's time for a "You know, I've decided that this totally isn't working for me, either" speech and stance

Agreed.


So what do you mean by this because words are just words, i need to show actions that this is not working for me. Short of me filing for D what could i do to show that this is not working for me. Because it sure the hell isnt working for me! any advice would be greatly appreciated. i was thinking about changing cell # to my own since we are joined; and splitting the bank accounts. what do you think. does that seem like making a bold move!


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The RobX "let them go" approach IS the one that's started with words -- backed up by actions that are consistent with the speech. Here's what I have, from my personal archives:



RobX’s approach:



Sit her down and have a discussion with her.
No need to be mad, angry, a$$hole, prick on anything,
keep it calm, light but straight forward, direct to the point, etc. Don't make it last more than a few minutes.

You tell her trust is based on actions that are consistent.

You don't trust her because she hasn't been consistent.

You don't trust her because she's been lying to you, in fact you tell her that is what you trust her to continue doing, because she has been lying to your consistently - that's what you can trust.

For you to be able to trust her, she has to build trust.
Sure you can trust her blindly and have faith and all that good stuff but honestly how well has that worked up to this point?

Don't ask for for full disclosure.

Do the opposite.

Tell her this:

"... I don't want your cell phone records, I don't want to look at your cell phone text msg's and call history, I don't want your email or fb password, I don't want your voicemail pw. If I have to monitor you 24/7 to force you to be consistent, that won't work for me because that's not what I want or need.

I wanted you to be trustworthy but I don't need you to be anything, truth be told, I'll be just fine without you, I see that now.

From now on I'm moving in this direction, if you want to come along, go ahead, I won't control you and tell you that can or can't come but I can't wait for you anymore and you already know that if you're with the OM, you aren't with me, I'm not settling for anything less than that.

If you really want to be with the OM, I really can't say or do anything to stop that and you should be with him if you're willing to lie so much to me, if you can't be true to me that means he's more important to you than I am and you know what... I'm ok with that because I'm more important to me and that's all that matters - I see that now.

If you wanted to be with me, you knew that you had alot of trust to rebuild and that's only through consistent action and I'm through with pressuring you to be my wife, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and that's pretty much what it looks like to me so let's stop playing games: you go and be with the OM, I'm ok with that, in fact I'm better than OK, I'm awesome because I'm finally being honest with myself about all of this and that includes being honest about who you are and where you are right now. I know what I'm worth and I've been settling for less for too long.

I can't wait for you anymore, I've spent enough time waiting for you to do the right thing and I know that doesn't work because I would probably have to wait forever and still not get what I wanted. So you can do what you want, be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy and I'm going to start wanting something better for me."


No being mean, spiteful, vindictive, you let her go.
No more discussions, arguments, no more talks about lies, no more sneaking around behind your back, she can do what she wants but you are letting her go to do what she wants to do but at the same time, you are now allowing yourself to be free of this crappy limbo place you've been living in for so long.

Bro, if she wants to be with you, she'll be with you, no amount of a$$ kissing, sneaking, snooping, being mean, angry, standing tall, etc. is going to change that.

You be the best gosh darn example of a MAN for you and for you only. If she wants this great MAN that you are in her life, she'll pursue you and do what it takes to be a part of that.

You need to respect yourself first, that's the first step and letting go of your wife her untrustworthy ways to establish that your self-respect, dignity and integrity are the most important things in your life is what you NEED and WANT to do. You know what you're worth, go out and get what you're worth and let go of the things that are worthy of you - starting feeling your personal value, know it, resonate with it, live it. You are worth better than what she is giving you right now, if you don't set that boundary, you'll allow her to do this to you forever and who could respect that?

Otherwise continue playing this game and you'll be playing this chase & pursue game, pushing & pulling for the rest of your life.

Time to get off the merry go round, this ride isn't that fun anymore.




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Wow that is amazing, do you mind if i actually use that! that is exactly how i feel! I know my worth and i believe i deserve better. Just takes time and allot of it. but that is an amazing statement, If i was to use that do i just get up and walk away after not letting her get anything in? I dont want to talk about D or anything she is going to have to persue that option.


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Also when should i have this talk, i mean we just talked last night. any help would be great. I know there is no quick fix and i need to start doing things for the better outcome of myself and not in hopes that it fixes us. i have to say i don't feel as much doom and gloom as i thought i would. i actually feel better after that convo. then before, is that a bad thing! I feel lighter in the chest and shoulders.


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I think it has to be genuine, you have to really BE at that place. Then you deliver it whenever. Unlike almost every other suggested script, this one DOES get proactively delivered (as opposed to "only when it's in context and in response to something she says/does").

The gist of it is "You know what? I've been thinking about it, and this really isn't working for me either. You've been trying to tell me this (that you no longer want to be married to me) for awhile now, and I guess I not only wasn't listening to you, but I wasn't thinking for MYSELF, either, and this really isn't working for me either! I realize now that I deserve better than this. Why would I want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me?"

It's very counter-intuitive, and I do think it has to be GENUINE and not just some TACTIC. And it also has to be in line with your own values.

It's probably closer to DB than some of the other things we've been discussing, because DBing is all about letting them go and doing your own thing to improve, and to really HEAR them, and also to "do what works." And I've definitely seen this work.


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I completely agree, I like your outline though. I definitely want to make it my own, and express my values and beliefs. And I think your right about everything else. My question is this, once I commit to this road it is almost like D without the paperwork. Will it matter whether or not the NC is still in play. Or should I tell her when I feel it's right that I am letting go and give her what she wants and drop the NC from OM. Or just let her deal with that issue on her own and me move on with myself.


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Train,

That post was great, very well worded, and resonate withs me (and sounds like many others.

Much appreciated!

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You totally let go as to whether or not she has contact with OM. She can knock herself out. HOWEVER, if and when she ever wants to get back with you, it WILL be in a 100% monogamous manner. It's still your standard for when you are TOGETHER, but now you have decided to let her go.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Starsky,
What about the the NC that is out on the guy. should i drop that when i let her go? or should i leave the NC up. on one side i feel the NC was tough love but on the other i feel like it has also helped drag the imagination of a fairy tail relationship she thinks she will with him, farther then if they would have just been able to see each other all the time, if i would have just let go of her months ago! i would be farther along in my GAL and building a stronger better me, and for them sooner or later as train said the warts would start to appear!


RysingMan

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Wow guys, what did I miss?
Train and Starsky at their best. Some of the best posts that I've read since I'm here. They greatly help my situation too.
I feel like I'm in the same stage than Rysin in my stitch.
Extremely helpful posts. Thank you so much guys!!!

I think some of this stuff should be sticky. Or Michelle needs to write a new book with practical advice in real life scenarios etc.

Last edited by Complex; 02/20/15 03:35 AM.

Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Complex, I can't even explain what I feel right now. I should feel doom and gloom but somehow I feel lighter, I'm not angry, upset just kinda chill. I now know were I stand and it feels good. Now I just need to focus and finalize my feelings and go live my life to better myself. Don't know how it happened it just clicked after reading train and starsky's posts. Thank you so much everyone.


RysingMan

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Starsky, What about the the NC that is out on the guy. should i drop that when i let her go? or should i leave the NC up. on one side i feel the NC was tough love but on the other i feel like it has also helped drag the imagination of a fairy tail relationship she thinks she will with him, farther then if they would have just been able to see each other all the time, if i would have just let go of her months ago! i would be farther along in my GAL and building a stronger better me, and for them sooner or later as train said the warts would start to appear!

Rysin, I can't speak for Starsky. But I'll tell you what I think: You have to thread the needle here, buddy, between giving W rope and respecting yourself and your marriage.

As for the NC orders ...

Starsky and I have told you how we handled "exposure" (similar to how you have). When Starsky's W returned to their M, she thanked him for fighting for their M. Likewise, when my H returned to our M, he thanked me for fighting for our M.

(What I'm about to write is likely considered a "thread hijack" because it's more about my own experiences than it is about your sitch. It's also not, by definition, "DBing," but I define "DBing" as mostly: Do what works. And for me? It worked. Anyway, I hope you're able to pull it all together to understand WHY I'm writing about my sitch here):

Make no mistake about it: The "fight" in me - the one H eventually thanked me for - did NOT make H happy AT ALL while he was wayward. In fact, he once literally said to me: "I'll be nice to you if you stop 'going after' OW."

What did he mean by "going after"? Well ....

I contacted her boss because the A started - and was carried out - where she worked ... at a grocery store. I called her boss to ask if the store had a policy about employees handing out their personal phone numbers to grocery shoppers.

Yes, yes I did. And, no, I don't regret it.

The night I found out H had paid $120 for a hotel room for himself and OW? I took the cheapest, most redneck, airbrushed flowers ... and the cheesiest card (signed: "love, your wife") ... I could find to the hotel check-in desk and told the person manning that desk that I was a matchmaker and had matched (insert H's name, who had paid for the hotel room) with the lady he would be entertaining in his room that night. I told the "concierge" that I wanted to surprise the "happy couple" with cheerful flowers and a card for "their first night together as a couple."

At the very moment they were checking in at the hotel and being greeted by a bouquet of redneck, spray-painted flowers and a thoughtful (actually gawd-awful) "love-boat-themed" greeting card, I was at OW's H's house, handing him a folder, at least an inch thick, of cell phone records and text messages I had copied from H's phone while he had been sleeping while still in our home the week before.

I'm not proud of what I felt I had to do to bust my H's A. But I'm not proud of how he walked out on our M and family for a triflin' ho, either. I'd personally rather my so-called then-M go down in flames than for me to feel like I was being trampled on and disrespected so horribly while I sat idly by and "stood" for such a sham of a relationship and M. (Note: That's not to say I don't respect people who CAN and DO "stand.")

I just know that life is short. And there's abundant happiness out here. God Himself gives us a "free pass" to end a M because of infidelity. I have to believe that's because even God knows how difficult it is to bounce back from this sort of Hell-on-Earth.

Why did I just "diarrhea" on your thread about all of that?

Because you asked about whether we think you should drop the charges against OM.

I'm only speaking for myself when I say: HELL NO, you shouldn't.

When I look forward in your sitch - and when I think about you reconciling with your W - I don't see her respecting you if you bow-down to her whiny little demands to "leave OM alone" while she's wayward and CHEATING ON YOU with him.

Here's the easiest way for me to put it:

1. Think forward to a time when you two are back together and she's madly in love with you again, Rysin. Is she going to respect you more for backing down off of those charges because you're caving to a whiny, little brat who wants (what equates to) YOUR PERMISSION for her to sleep with OM while she's M to you? Or would she respect you more - once y'all are back together - for FIGHTING, steadfast, for her and your M by sticking to your morals and your M vows?

2. Think forward to a time when you've moved completely on from your current M and have met and fell in love with someone else. Are *you* going to respect YOURSELF more for backing down and letting your former, cheating W boss you around so she can feel justified in screwing around on you? Or are you going to respect yourself more for FIGHTING for your core, non-negotiable values and commitments?

I've caught flack once or twice on these very boards for handling things the way I did with my H when he was wayward (even though I didn't even start posting here again until I'd already taken those actions). But let's face it: this is an anonymous board. No one here truly knows me. I could leave here tomorrow, and hardly anyone here would know (or particularly care) the difference. What matters, Rysin, is how true I am to ME and to my M and to my family.

I urge you to think the same way. What can YOU live with, brother?

There's a whole lotta life ahead of you.
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A message from Michele Weiner-Davis:

Hi Divorce Busters,

It has come to my attention that some people on this message board are strongly suggesting advice that runs counter to my Divorce Busting philosophy and practice- the notion of exposing a spouse's affair to family members. While this plan may be helpful to one couple, it would completely backfire in other marriages. I have worked with many couples where the betrayed spouse revealed all the information to friends and family with extremely detrimental outcomes. First, when the unfaithful spouse discovered this had happened, he or she decided to file for divorce and it became a final decision. Secondly, there are those situations where the couple began to heal from the infidelity and get their marriage back on track, but the family members undermined the couples' efforts and even "disowned" the betrayed spouse. This made life-long commitments after infidelity a very challenging outcome because few people like giving up their family and friends. So, while I do believe that betrayed spouses need support from loved ones when dealing with such a distressing situation, it is ESSENTIAL that the information about the affair be shared CAREFULLY and with full recognition about the possible risks. I always recommend that, if information is shared, the person with whom it is shared is marriage-friendly, even in the face of infidelity. Nonetheless, it's still important to recognize potential risks.

Additionally, several people have contacted my office feeling that they had been personally attacked for not following this sort of advice. This community was started many years ago and we rarely get such complaints. Confronting others by calling names or pressuring them will not be tolerated. These tactics are not reflective of the Divorce Busting spirit.


Michele

Last edited by Virginia; 02/23/15 01:43 PM.

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Train,
Thank you so much, i feel as you feel. My only question about the sitch that made me think about dropping is, If i am to let go of her completely and find myself i was just wondering if i am truly letting go while still holding that NC over him. I am going to take some time to think about this. I will stay in touch here but i am going completely dark from W i even told her that if she needs something she needs to send it through a friend. no notes, texts, emails, no nothing. I believe that i am doing the right thing and i do not feel like i should drop these charges he made his bed as she did and he can sleep in it as she can. and MY feeling is, IF he loves her and she loves him they will find a way point blank. I have started journaling about what i want to say to her. that is straight to the point but expressed what i feel and want. without leaving any room for debate. I AM WORTH MORE THAN WHAT SHE IS GIVING ME, I AM WORTH MORE TO MYSELF, I AM A BETTER MAN THAN SHE DESERVES. I see this and i know who i am. she will have to deal with her choices while i am going to look forward in anticipation to my future and my growth.

strength and honor!


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Yes. Let her go AND let the charges stick. Because this is for YOUR strength and honor. YOUR future.

YES!

I will stay in touch here
Ummmm ... you BETTER!!! wink


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PS You mentioned you're journaling about what you plan to say to W. If you plan to WRITE something to her - like some of the valuable RobX stuff - post it here first, won't you? We'd all love to give you some feedback on it so you can fine-tune it with little-to-no emotion. smile


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4:06am, Train? What are you doing up at that hour, LOL?! crazy


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: RysinMn
Starsky,
What about the the NC that is out on the guy. should i drop that when i let her go? or should i leave the NC up.



I've been thinking long and hard on this, and I've read Train's thoughts on it as well, and philosophically I don't disagree with anything she said -- it's pretty much my position on most affair-busting and DBing.

However, you have to keep in mind that the "RobX" approach is VERY different -- and in some ways the exact opposite.
For example, while we normally preach no-contact and transparency, this plan says "Hey, you do what you want" (while at the same time saying "From now on I'm moving in this direction, if you want to come along, go ahead, I won't control you and tell you that can or can't come but I can't wait for you anymore and you already know that if you're with the OM, you aren't with me, I'm not settling for anything less than that.")

So my advice would be . . .

To remain SILENT on the issue of your NC order on her OM, hoping that she doesn't ask. And you keep it in place. However, if she asks you say something like "Look, I'm not lifting another finger to either do or UN-do any of the things I've done to try to save this marriage. I've already wasted far too much time and I need to start living my life, whatever that holds. But I really don't care who you see or you don't see anymore, because you're not with me. If you ever decide you want to be with me, well . . . my standards and boundaries are pretty clear, aren't they. You're a grown woman -- go do as you wish. This isn't working for me any more, and I deserve better than this."


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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4:06am, Train? What are you doing up at that hour, LOL?!
Cleaning my cape. smile

remain SILENT on the issue of your NC order on her OM, hoping that she doesn't ask. And you keep it in place. However, if she asks you say something like "Look, I'm not lifting another finger to either do or UN-do any of the things I've done to try to save this marriage.
I like that.


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Originally Posted By: Train
4:06am, Train? What are you doing up at that hour, LOL?!
Cleaning my cape. smile



LMAO!!! Well done, fair citizen! cool


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Not to belabor the point but I think you want to come across as in control, focused and in some respects apathetic - it could go either way and you're fine with either. Remember the opposite of love isn't hate - its apathy.

She will feel your absence much stronger than she'll feel a negative presence. You also don't appear pursuing and you don't give her a reason to continue to be resentful.

Don't do anything to hurt, don't do anything to help. Live your life as if she didn't even exist.


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Originally Posted By: dingo
Not to belabor the point but I think you want to come across as in control, focused and in some respects apathetic - it could go either way and you're fine with either. Remember the opposite of love isn't hate - its apathy.

She will feel your absence much stronger than she'll feel a negative presence. You also don't appear pursuing and you don't give her a reason to continue to be resentful.

Don't do anything to hurt, don't do anything to help. Live your life as if she didn't even exist.


She's a friend who betrayed you horribly, and continues to take advantage of you if you allow it. Treat her as such.

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That is exactly how i am going to approach this when the time comes. I think i will give it a few weeks before i even decide to have this talk. it give me time to focus get my thoughts in order and really express my self in a non-bias for without malis or anger. i am not going to address the NC on OM unless she says something about it. then i'm going to slam the door just as you stated Starsky. She will be free to make her choices and live her life. And i will move forward. thank you guys very much. i will post as i write some things out to get input.


RysingMan

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