Yeah. What Starsky said. I especially liked this, because I picked up on it, too:
(notice her interesting comment about "being a man" buried in the middle of her rant up there ^^^)
I can't stress enough how important attraction is here. And this is so, so, spot on: defending your position is only weakening you further in her eyes ... it's killing attraction, and ATTRACTION is the first step back towards reconciliation.
Starsky has already pointed out that you guys are wayyyy misconstruing (I was going to use a far more vulgar word that characterizes a lot better what you two are doing to it) "Plan B." But let me see if I can go into some detail about how Plan B works:
As you know, a true Plan B is going completely dark ... but NOT to give your W permission to continue in an A. THAT, to the contrary, is what we call an open M. Plan B, essentially, is you stepping completely out of the picture with W to leave her with a more positive impression of you (because, technically, you're supposed to employ "Plan A" - being the best Rysin you can be and making positive changes in yourself - first). And in Plan B, you absolutely DO NOT condone her A, but you *do* step back and allow OM to meet all her needs. Meanwhile, YOU get your sh!t in order. You become - genuinely, and not just to woo W - the best Rysin you can be. In this process, you will naturally begin to detach from W and her choices. You will begin to feel better. You will become more confident. You will care less about what your W eventually decides. And all this <------ is attractive. (I know it seems backwards that your W will find you most attractive when you get to the point that you really don't care which way the wind blows your M. But you just have to trust me on this.)
Anyway, while you're getting your life together, you're letting OM meet all W's needs. If their A follows the normal trajectory of an A, he's not going to be able to meet her needs for long, Rysin. As I believe I've gone into with you before: He will start seeing her warts, and she will start seeing his. That's when As blow up: when two fundamentally-selfish people - who are thinking only of themselves - start playing a little game of tug-of-war: OM cares only about himself. W cares only about herself. You do see how that likely won't last, right? That's why most As end.
Plan B doesn't mean you sit back and WAIT for all that to happen. It gives you time and space to work on you and for the A to blow up. And when it blows up, there's a handsome, confident, genuinely happy Rysin standing there. (Please note that I did not say "waiting" there.) That's who W is going to see. And instead of comparing you to a hot, confident, smooth-talkin' OM, she'll be comparing a self-absorbed, whiny OM to YOU. You essentially flip the script. And that's where/how we are brought back to this: ATTRACTION ----> RESPECT ----> LOVE ----> RECONCILIATION
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Listen Rysin. I don't like how you let W pull you into the R talk; that's a given. But it's in the past. I'll be honest, though: I don't read the "doom and gloom" that you're feeling when you recounted the discussion. Maybe she's trying to "nice" you into dropping the charges against OM. That's definitely possible. But most cheating spouses spew a lot more venom than I read from her; most are ready for a D *yesterday*, and they'll tell us LBSs that real quick.
Your W, IMO, dropped some valuable hints for you in the convo. She's on the fence about D. And she wants you to handle things like a MAN. (Does this sound familiar??? )
So give your W what she's asking for (except dropping charges against OM; once you've committed to that, you're best to stick to it): Give her time. And handle things like a MAN.
And, yes, get to a L. That doesn't mean you have to take any action right now. But knowledge is power.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
thanks it will be easier now that i have a buddy coming in for a month. and he is one of her best friends so i know she is going to wanna see him. he thinks he is going to set her straight and i just laughed i said dude, your not going to bring her back. she is going to have to find her own way back or she is not going to find it at all. but he thinks he can. i said give it a shot but know i want no part of this and i brought you out here to get away from you problem. so we shall see how crazy this month gets.
You need to be running real tough with your buddies for the next 3 months or so. I wouldn't worry about a thing she is doing and get caught up in the excitement of your GAL. Let one of your single friends plan it for you. Act, feel, be single for a minute. What was wife is now on a detour.
Be responsible to yourself, take care of yourself, enjoy life.
I sound like an idiot. I kicked her out a month ago because she was having an EA with OM and had a previous PA witg him while I was gone. W believed she was in love with him when I kicked her out. There is no way she came around that fast considering two weeks ago she was slamming me for the NC order he received. She is probably gonna ask for D. I know it's mind reading but he'll should I not prepare for worst. If we do talk
OM might not have signed up to be responsible for her. Just there to have sex with her. SO she might have gotten her dose of reality. But stick to your guns.
Ok, So i first and foremost want to say that i know exactly what plan B is. I am not the one who is confused about it. it is her. That is what i was trying to explain to her, its not a "fine you couldn't stop contact with plan A so go ahead and go be with him and find out if you want him kinda thing". I was under the impression that i was working towards plan B with the seperation and the 180 and GAL things they are essentially the same from my point of view. Train, i want to give her what she wants but she is wanting me to drop the NC on OM. I will not do that, and she feels that the only other alternative is for the D. But from where i am standing there were a few positives from that convo now that i can sit and look back at it. She doesn't want a D but she is depressed and going through with drawls, that is how i saw her. As far as me repeating that i did not want a D it was in a context like this. W- "I just dont see how we can fix us, this relationship just cant be fixed when i am in love with someone else." M- " Well you already know my stance i do not want a divorce, but if you feel this is what is best then you file and i will not stand in the way!"
everytime she tried to urge me into making a decision i would say something to the point of this is not what i want but i will not stand in your way if this is how you feel. i never got emotional or anything. and when i walked away at the end of the night I hurt but i also knew that there is a glimmer somewhere in there.
So my question is this how do i do things more manly without being a Dbag. I AM ALL EARS ON THIS PART. The only thing it seems she wants is freedom to do what she wants without any consequences. And i am not going to stand for that.
I told her " there are boundaries that i have set and i will not allow myself to be pushed beyond those or for anyone else to walk on them. It has become clear to me that you have fired me as your husband and you do not care about my well being, I am standing up for myself and looking out for my best interests. and i will not be manipulated into violating one of my core values! i told her that!
Ok, So i first and foremost want to say that i know exactly what plan B is. I am not the one who is confused about it. it is her. That is what i was trying to explain to her, its not a "fine you couldn't stop contact with plan A so go ahead and go be with him and find out if you want him kinda thing". I was under the impression that i was working towards plan B with the seperation and the 180 and GAL things they are essentially the same from my point of view. Train, i want to give her what she wants but she is wanting me to drop the NC on OM. I will not do that, and she feels that the only other alternative is for the D. But from where i am standing there were a few positives from that convo now that i can sit and look back at it. She doesn't want a D but she is depressed and going through with drawls, that is how i saw her. As far as me repeating that i did not want a D it was in a context like this. W- "I just dont see how we can fix us, this relationship just cant be fixed when i am in love with someone else." M- " Well you already know my stance i do not want a divorce, but if you feel this is what is best then you file and i will not stand in the way!"
everytime she tried to urge me into making a decision i would say something to the point of this is not what i want but i will not stand in your way if this is how you feel. i never got emotional or anything. and when i walked away at the end of the night I hurt but i also knew that there is a glimmer somewhere in there.
So my question is this how do i do things more manly without being a Dbag. I AM ALL EARS ON THIS PART. The only thing it seems she wants is freedom to do what she wants without any consequences. And i am not going to stand for that.
I told her " there are boundaries that i have set and i will not allow myself to be pushed beyond those or for anyone else to walk on them. It has become apprant to me that you have fired me as your husband and do not care about my well being, I am standing up for myself and looking out for my best interests. and i will not be manipulated into violating one of my core values! i told her that!
Most of what you say as a LBS is "blah-blah-blah-blah".
I wouldn't try to have long drawn out speaches with a WAS.
However, you can SHOW her your core values that you don't allow your friends to walk over you and you definitely aren't going to still be helping them out if they do.
Maybe it's time for a "You know, I've decided that this totally isn't working for me, either" speech and stance
Agreed.
So what do you mean by this because words are just words, i need to show actions that this is not working for me. Short of me filing for D what could i do to show that this is not working for me. Because it sure the hell isnt working for me! any advice would be greatly appreciated. i was thinking about changing cell # to my own since we are joined; and splitting the bank accounts. what do you think. does that seem like making a bold move!
The RobX "let them go" approach IS the one that's started with words -- backed up by actions that are consistent with the speech. Here's what I have, from my personal archives:
RobX’s approach:
Sit her down and have a discussion with her. No need to be mad, angry, a$$hole, prick on anything, keep it calm, light but straight forward, direct to the point, etc. Don't make it last more than a few minutes.
You tell her trust is based on actions that are consistent.
You don't trust her because she hasn't been consistent.
You don't trust her because she's been lying to you, in fact you tell her that is what you trust her to continue doing, because she has been lying to your consistently - that's what you can trust.
For you to be able to trust her, she has to build trust. Sure you can trust her blindly and have faith and all that good stuff but honestly how well has that worked up to this point?
Don't ask for for full disclosure.
Do the opposite.
Tell her this:
"... I don't want your cell phone records, I don't want to look at your cell phone text msg's and call history, I don't want your email or fb password, I don't want your voicemail pw. If I have to monitor you 24/7 to force you to be consistent, that won't work for me because that's not what I want or need.
I wanted you to be trustworthy but I don't need you to be anything, truth be told, I'll be just fine without you, I see that now.
From now on I'm moving in this direction, if you want to come along, go ahead, I won't control you and tell you that can or can't come but I can't wait for you anymore and you already know that if you're with the OM, you aren't with me, I'm not settling for anything less than that.
If you really want to be with the OM, I really can't say or do anything to stop that and you should be with him if you're willing to lie so much to me, if you can't be true to me that means he's more important to you than I am and you know what... I'm ok with that because I'm more important to me and that's all that matters - I see that now.
If you wanted to be with me, you knew that you had alot of trust to rebuild and that's only through consistent action and I'm through with pressuring you to be my wife, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and that's pretty much what it looks like to me so let's stop playing games: you go and be with the OM, I'm ok with that, in fact I'm better than OK, I'm awesome because I'm finally being honest with myself about all of this and that includes being honest about who you are and where you are right now. I know what I'm worth and I've been settling for less for too long.
I can't wait for you anymore, I've spent enough time waiting for you to do the right thing and I know that doesn't work because I would probably have to wait forever and still not get what I wanted. So you can do what you want, be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy and I'm going to start wanting something better for me."
No being mean, spiteful, vindictive, you let her go. No more discussions, arguments, no more talks about lies, no more sneaking around behind your back, she can do what she wants but you are letting her go to do what she wants to do but at the same time, you are now allowing yourself to be free of this crappy limbo place you've been living in for so long.
Bro, if she wants to be with you, she'll be with you, no amount of a$$ kissing, sneaking, snooping, being mean, angry, standing tall, etc. is going to change that.
You be the best gosh darn example of a MAN for you and for you only. If she wants this great MAN that you are in her life, she'll pursue you and do what it takes to be a part of that.
You need to respect yourself first, that's the first step and letting go of your wife her untrustworthy ways to establish that your self-respect, dignity and integrity are the most important things in your life is what you NEED and WANT to do. You know what you're worth, go out and get what you're worth and let go of the things that are worthy of you - starting feeling your personal value, know it, resonate with it, live it. You are worth better than what she is giving you right now, if you don't set that boundary, you'll allow her to do this to you forever and who could respect that?
Otherwise continue playing this game and you'll be playing this chase & pursue game, pushing & pulling for the rest of your life.
Time to get off the merry go round, this ride isn't that fun anymore.
Wow that is amazing, do you mind if i actually use that! that is exactly how i feel! I know my worth and i believe i deserve better. Just takes time and allot of it. but that is an amazing statement, If i was to use that do i just get up and walk away after not letting her get anything in? I dont want to talk about D or anything she is going to have to persue that option.
Also when should i have this talk, i mean we just talked last night. any help would be great. I know there is no quick fix and i need to start doing things for the better outcome of myself and not in hopes that it fixes us. i have to say i don't feel as much doom and gloom as i thought i would. i actually feel better after that convo. then before, is that a bad thing! I feel lighter in the chest and shoulders.
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