I think it has to be genuine, you have to really BE at that place. Then you deliver it whenever. Unlike almost every other suggested script, this one DOES get proactively delivered (as opposed to "only when it's in context and in response to something she says/does").
The gist of it is "You know what? I've been thinking about it, and this really isn't working for me either. You've been trying to tell me this (that you no longer want to be married to me) for awhile now, and I guess I not only wasn't listening to you, but I wasn't thinking for MYSELF, either, and this really isn't working for me either! I realize now that I deserve better than this. Why would I want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me?"
It's very counter-intuitive, and I do think it has to be GENUINE and not just some TACTIC. And it also has to be in line with your own values.
It's probably closer to DB than some of the other things we've been discussing, because DBing is all about letting them go and doing your own thing to improve, and to really HEAR them, and also to "do what works." And I've definitely seen this work.
I completely agree, I like your outline though. I definitely want to make it my own, and express my values and beliefs. And I think your right about everything else. My question is this, once I commit to this road it is almost like D without the paperwork. Will it matter whether or not the NC is still in play. Or should I tell her when I feel it's right that I am letting go and give her what she wants and drop the NC from OM. Or just let her deal with that issue on her own and me move on with myself.
You totally let go as to whether or not she has contact with OM. She can knock herself out. HOWEVER, if and when she ever wants to get back with you, it WILL be in a 100% monogamous manner. It's still your standard for when you are TOGETHER, but now you have decided to let her go.
Starsky, What about the the NC that is out on the guy. should i drop that when i let her go? or should i leave the NC up. on one side i feel the NC was tough love but on the other i feel like it has also helped drag the imagination of a fairy tail relationship she thinks she will with him, farther then if they would have just been able to see each other all the time, if i would have just let go of her months ago! i would be farther along in my GAL and building a stronger better me, and for them sooner or later as train said the warts would start to appear!
Wow guys, what did I miss? Train and Starsky at their best. Some of the best posts that I've read since I'm here. They greatly help my situation too. I feel like I'm in the same stage than Rysin in my stitch. Extremely helpful posts. Thank you so much guys!!!
I think some of this stuff should be sticky. Or Michelle needs to write a new book with practical advice in real life scenarios etc.
Last edited by Complex; 02/20/1503:35 AM.
Me 32 (German) Wife 28 T 3yrs M 2yrs Moved to US for W No kids BD 6/2014 In house separation Confirmed EA 1/2015 (ongoing since BD) OM not ready Real D talk started 1/27/15
Complex, I can't even explain what I feel right now. I should feel doom and gloom but somehow I feel lighter, I'm not angry, upset just kinda chill. I now know were I stand and it feels good. Now I just need to focus and finalize my feelings and go live my life to better myself. Don't know how it happened it just clicked after reading train and starsky's posts. Thank you so much everyone.
Starsky, What about the the NC that is out on the guy. should i drop that when i let her go? or should i leave the NC up. on one side i feel the NC was tough love but on the other i feel like it has also helped drag the imagination of a fairy tail relationship she thinks she will with him, farther then if they would have just been able to see each other all the time, if i would have just let go of her months ago! i would be farther along in my GAL and building a stronger better me, and for them sooner or later as train said the warts would start to appear!
Rysin, I can't speak for Starsky. But I'll tell you what I think: You have to thread the needle here, buddy, between giving W rope and respecting yourself and your marriage.
As for the NC orders ...
Starsky and I have told you how we handled "exposure" (similar to how you have). When Starsky's W returned to their M, she thanked him for fighting for their M. Likewise, when my H returned to our M, he thanked me for fighting for our M.
(What I'm about to write is likely considered a "thread hijack" because it's more about my own experiences than it is about your sitch. It's also not, by definition, "DBing," but I define "DBing" as mostly: Do what works. And for me? It worked. Anyway, I hope you're able to pull it all together to understand WHY I'm writing about my sitch here):
Make no mistake about it: The "fight" in me - the one H eventually thanked me for - did NOT make H happy AT ALL while he was wayward. In fact, he once literally said to me: "I'll be nice to you if you stop 'going after' OW."
What did he mean by "going after"? Well ....
I contacted her boss because the A started - and was carried out - where she worked ... at a grocery store. I called her boss to ask if the store had a policy about employees handing out their personal phone numbers to grocery shoppers.
Yes, yes I did. And, no, I don't regret it.
The night I found out H had paid $120 for a hotel room for himself and OW? I took the cheapest, most redneck, airbrushed flowers ... and the cheesiest card (signed: "love, your wife") ... I could find to the hotel check-in desk and told the person manning that desk that I was a matchmaker and had matched (insert H's name, who had paid for the hotel room) with the lady he would be entertaining in his room that night. I told the "concierge" that I wanted to surprise the "happy couple" with cheerful flowers and a card for "their first night together as a couple."
At the very moment they were checking in at the hotel and being greeted by a bouquet of redneck, spray-painted flowers and a thoughtful (actually gawd-awful) "love-boat-themed" greeting card, I was at OW's H's house, handing him a folder, at least an inch thick, of cell phone records and text messages I had copied from H's phone while he had been sleeping while still in our home the week before.
I'm not proud of what I felt I had to do to bust my H's A. But I'm not proud of how he walked out on our M and family for a triflin' ho, either. I'd personally rather my so-called then-M go down in flames than for me to feel like I was being trampled on and disrespected so horribly while I sat idly by and "stood" for such a sham of a relationship and M. (Note: That's not to say I don't respect people who CAN and DO "stand.")
I just know that life is short. And there's abundant happiness out here. God Himself gives us a "free pass" to end a M because of infidelity. I have to believe that's because even God knows how difficult it is to bounce back from this sort of Hell-on-Earth.
Why did I just "diarrhea" on your thread about all of that?
Because you asked about whether we think you should drop the charges against OM.
I'm only speaking for myself when I say: HELL NO, you shouldn't.
When I look forward in your sitch - and when I think about you reconciling with your W - I don't see her respecting you if you bow-down to her whiny little demands to "leave OM alone" while she's wayward and CHEATING ON YOU with him.
Here's the easiest way for me to put it:
1. Think forward to a time when you two are back together and she's madly in love with you again, Rysin. Is she going to respect you more for backing down off of those charges because you're caving to a whiny, little brat who wants (what equates to) YOUR PERMISSION for her to sleep with OM while she's M to you? Or would she respect you more - once y'all are back together - for FIGHTING, steadfast, for her and your M by sticking to your morals and your M vows?
2. Think forward to a time when you've moved completely on from your current M and have met and fell in love with someone else. Are *you* going to respect YOURSELF more for backing down and letting your former, cheating W boss you around so she can feel justified in screwing around on you? Or are you going to respect yourself more for FIGHTING for your core, non-negotiable values and commitments?
I've caught flack once or twice on these very boards for handling things the way I did with my H when he was wayward (even though I didn't even start posting here again until I'd already taken those actions). But let's face it: this is an anonymous board. No one here truly knows me. I could leave here tomorrow, and hardly anyone here would know (or particularly care) the difference. What matters, Rysin, is how true I am to ME and to my M and to my family.
I urge you to think the same way. What can YOU live with, brother?
There's a whole lotta life ahead of you. _________________________ M: 37 H: 41 Married 11 years S8 & D3; D18 & D17 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
A message from Michele Weiner-Davis:
Hi Divorce Busters,
It has come to my attention that some people on this message board are strongly suggesting advice that runs counter to my Divorce Busting philosophy and practice- the notion of exposing a spouse's affair to family members. While this plan may be helpful to one couple, it would completely backfire in other marriages. I have worked with many couples where the betrayed spouse revealed all the information to friends and family with extremely detrimental outcomes. First, when the unfaithful spouse discovered this had happened, he or she decided to file for divorce and it became a final decision. Secondly, there are those situations where the couple began to heal from the infidelity and get their marriage back on track, but the family members undermined the couples' efforts and even "disowned" the betrayed spouse. This made life-long commitments after infidelity a very challenging outcome because few people like giving up their family and friends. So, while I do believe that betrayed spouses need support from loved ones when dealing with such a distressing situation, it is ESSENTIAL that the information about the affair be shared CAREFULLY and with full recognition about the possible risks. I always recommend that, if information is shared, the person with whom it is shared is marriage-friendly, even in the face of infidelity. Nonetheless, it's still important to recognize potential risks.
Additionally, several people have contacted my office feeling that they had been personally attacked for not following this sort of advice. This community was started many years ago and we rarely get such complaints. Confronting others by calling names or pressuring them will not be tolerated. These tactics are not reflective of the Divorce Busting spirit.
Michele
Last edited by Virginia; 02/23/1501:43 PM.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Train, Thank you so much, i feel as you feel. My only question about the sitch that made me think about dropping is, If i am to let go of her completely and find myself i was just wondering if i am truly letting go while still holding that NC over him. I am going to take some time to think about this. I will stay in touch here but i am going completely dark from W i even told her that if she needs something she needs to send it through a friend. no notes, texts, emails, no nothing. I believe that i am doing the right thing and i do not feel like i should drop these charges he made his bed as she did and he can sleep in it as she can. and MY feeling is, IF he loves her and she loves him they will find a way point blank. I have started journaling about what i want to say to her. that is straight to the point but expressed what i feel and want. without leaving any room for debate. I AM WORTH MORE THAN WHAT SHE IS GIVING ME, I AM WORTH MORE TO MYSELF, I AM A BETTER MAN THAN SHE DESERVES. I see this and i know who i am. she will have to deal with her choices while i am going to look forward in anticipation to my future and my growth.
