OMs, cycling, cakes and confusion Oh my Lord ;)

[cbtdad]

That is something you better work in quickly. That made me cringe big time

[Crimson]

Not to pile on, but yeah....what they (^^^^) said. There is a pretty strong possibility that you are about to walked squarely on top of a land mine and we are really trying to get you to head the other way while you can.

SM - you have GOT to lose the professorial tone with your W. There is NOTHING that you can teach her. Let me say that again: there is NOTHING that you can teach her. I have been stressing this for my last few posts - you both need to get help from a professional. There is no way in hell that you are going to be that professional for your wife.

It seems very much like now that you are back in a place where you have a glimmer of hope you are reverting back to some of the same crap that got you her in the first place. If your wife was saying she felt "lesser than" relative to you in the marriage - why would you try to "lead" her in anything relative to her and the affair?

Listen, we are all human here - and we all have been through some rough times emotionally with our spouses. There is a certain sense of gratification that we get when we see our situations turning to our favor - but you would be wise to ignore it. IF your wife is coming back to you - be humble, be her parther, her EQUAL. Jointly own your problems and work as a TEAM to find ways to repair them. I could say more but I am sure you get the point......do you??

Crimson

[Crimson]

*Crickets*

Update?

[25yearsmlc]

Sandi those are wise words! I've seen and read similar posts from you written to other lbs husbands. And I've thought the same this whole journey. That first I needed to get her to want our marriage, but at that point she needs to prove it..


Before you start attaching conditions to her return, how do you even know she wants back in, fully? Why not make sure she first knows that you are going to be a h she wants?

She has wanted out so many times in our marriage. She always had a nagging feeling that since I was her first, she never shopped around.

I also know from her friends that she was telling them she had her doubts about marrying me. And during the A she had confirmed in her mind that I was the wrong guy for her.

This is the FIRST time I've read this^^^^....you said "all was well" until business failed and you were not attentive enough, etc etc...

But it turns out that she has had these feelings all along. So you need to HEAR her better. Why were you so shocked by the A, if she has expressed doubts so often before?


There is also something else that I think will be one of my conditions before we put our rings back on. She never changed her last name to mine!! Our daughter amd I have my last name and she doesn't. This has always been something that bothered me but I never put my foot down.
She as an only child and so she thinks she is carrying her dads last name to keep it alive. Even her dad thought that was ridiculous and wanted her to change it. She has male cousins who will keep the name alive, and so I think I need to keep that as a condition. To show good faith amd a committment to being a part of our family.

WOW
You are getting way too far ahead of yourself AND you are attaching conditions that are important to YOU but were not important enough before...so I think this issue is moot now. I mean, this is NOT your chance to attach your laundry list..."lose weight, get a job, change your last name AND oh by the way, don't cheat either..."

Stick to the main focus now, which ought to be you dropping WAY back so she does not assume you are ready to "just start over, BUT with your conditions" attached, and your controlling ways and her getting no affection and...oh wait, that IS exactly what you are were beginning to do.

Back off for now...seriously. This is the chance you have to blow it...Don't.

Let her get herself out of the maze.

But if you begin to remind her of the reasons why she wanted OM, she'll go find OM#2...



Honestly the last name is a sore spot for me. I'm middle eastern and that old skool streak is strong. Not into the new age keep my maiden name, or hyphenate our last name. She is my wife and needs to have the same last name.

Um, hello?
She does NOT see herself as your wife and frankly right now you sound pompous and arrogant and it's as if you feel powerful, after being powerless for so long that you want to compensate.

Being your wife, which is debatable in her eyes, does NOT make her your property. This is NOT the time for your version of Karma. Let that take care of itself.




I am in no way supprting what I am about to say, but I say it as an illustration of how far I have strayed from my background in order to make her happy....women become a part of their husbands family and are no lonher tied to their family of origin. That is how it is on our culture...


has she behaved as if she is a member of YOUR culture? Is she one too? Is exploring OMs part of that culture? Oh, no? Then get real. I mean, this is just you trying to even things out and to publicly feel restored...it's not what matters really. You are making superficial demands to prove something that is NOT Provable at the moment. Get the priorities straight.


I bent so far for her that she lost respect for me. So sandi you are right. I need to stand firm and demand a show of respect and commitment...or the marriage is a no go

This^^ name change is not the way for you to get HER to respect you OR show commitment, although it may APPEAR to be...so what's your goal? Appearances, or genuine change and a better m? How will you keep the changes you said you wanted to make in yourself, going, if you now want to make her completely responsible for the break down in the M?

Are there any changes you will make or keep up? I wasn't very clear on the changes you said you were going to make other than business decisions...


This is the least I have ever been emotionally invested in this marriage. Its a chance to correct the respect factor and the balance of power. Take it or leave it.

The reality is that there may NEVER come a time when she fully grasps what she has done to you and you may have to accept that.

Yeah, seriously. My h is NOW coming to grips (6 years later) with the damage done to his r's with our daughters.

And it's NOT easy or smooth for him (or me). There is no way I could handle the guilt I'd feel if I were in his shoes. So I will NOT throw it in his face b/c I think he has enough of a mountain to climb. My job is to get out of his way and to support him in his journey back into the family as a parent.

You are not there yet, I know. But don't think YOU can "make" your wife feel the guilt she "ought" to feel (in your eyes, that is). WE all think she made poor choices.

But come to find out, she has harbored doubts about her marital choice and you have had to convince her that you are a good guy, for a LONG time.

She is confused. YOU cannot be the one to lead her out of this. Let her find her way back to you IF YOU are interested. Maybe you ought to solely focus on helping her be a good mother to your daughter and NOT assume she wants to be married to you.

Truly I would NOT assume she wants to be married. I think she likes being comforted by a friend, (you) b/c she has been made a fool of.

But the most loving thing you can say to her now, is NOT "I told you so". It's called holding your tongue. AND not telling her "now that you've been punished and therefore proven 'wrong' with an OM, here are MY conditions for you to earn your way back to ME..."

See, I'm not at all sure she wants to be married to you more now, than before. All I think she learned is that the OM was a jerk. But she has known that awhile and only when she got an STD from him, did she break it off. (OR he did?? I'm still not clear...)

And I simply don't know if she believes she was wrong for the affair itself, versus making a poor choice of man for the affair. There is a HUGE Difference.

When my h's "plan for the gold rush" fell through, and cost us a fortune, which I had predicted when I read the one sided contract he signed (against my legal advice), he looked me in the eye and said "Well I guess this was a mistake". (Understatement of the decade).

I did Not say "well, OBVIOUSLY!!" I said nothing.

There was nothing I had to say to add to that. He was deeply humiliated and the loving thing to say was nothing.

But if I'd comforted him in a way that lied or covered the mistake, that would be wrong too. I let him feel what he felt, and I just tried to make it easier for him and our d's to spend time together.

I think the R's between my d's and h, are much more important than my d's want to admit (they claim indifference) but the R's are VERY important to h. But HE has work to do. He says he is willing and I know he thinks he is.

Thing is, it's HIS work to do. Not mine.

I suggest you Back WAY off so your w can be a better mother. That is the first priority for now.

You don't even know what you want (except for your "conditions") and that will backfire on you.

IF you were to take her back now (and that's assuming she wants back in), the way you sound periodically, is as if you are going to punish her as your form of reassurance-- and that will backfire.

If the time comes for you two to piece for real, SHE will make a move and you will justifiably want reassurances of her commitment.

***BTW Piecing is only done knowingly by both partners, not as a one way strategy. (That's DBing). Piecing is when both parties know AND SAY they want to try to reconcile...and there is no way it can be successful if nothing is new or different, which means new tools for BOTH of you.***

It's natural for you to want reassurances from her, But her reassurances must come from a place of love in her, not you attaching contingencies and conditions. That's backwards, imo.

IF & when you two truly try to piece, if that happens, you simply MUST go to Retrovaille or something NEW and different for you two to make a go of it. Otherwise the backslides are too evident and predictable and then there will never be a third try at the m. You both need new tools. I don't know how to emphasize that enough.

I believe the marriages that get a second chance, and fail, rarely get a third chance.

So if you do get a second chance, take your time and LISTEN to people who tell you things you don't want to hear, and think it out.

[25yearsmlc]

SM - 'Stander basically encapsulated everything that I wanted to say to you. The reasons why she left are still there....maybe not the things in YOU that pushed her away, but the things in HER. Man, I wish I could tell you face-to-face, man-to-man that you absolutely, positively, without a doubt 100% need to get help from a counselor as you attempt to weave this thing back together. It's not an option - it is a must. It's more important than anything she can do to make amends, or anything you can suggest for her to read. The reason I think I am this passionate about it (as you know) is that when XW moved back in last spring we DIDN'T do this and it condemned us to failure - I am almost sure of it. I sincerely want better for you, your wife and your daughter.

I know the feeling of euphoria (mixed with latent hurt and anger) that pops up in this phase because you just want to call this nightmare officially over and move on with your lives together - holy sh*t was I "there" last March. Look at it this way, the house is no longer "on fire" but it is smoldering, burned to the foundation and is not yet ready to be inhabited. You have to put out all the hot spots, rebuild the frame, paint, and fill it with new stuff.

I wish I could build a time machine and go back and tell myself all of this when I needed to know it - but I CAN tell you. Please make sure you get help.

Crimson

ignore this^^^ at your peril.. And SM, I'm going to give you a big 2 x 4 b/c I just finished reading the whole thread...

The more I read YOUR words, the more turned off I am by you as a h. That's how it strikes me. The arrogance and self righteousness is ALL STILL THERE and you have learned very very little for a man who went thru such an ordeal...that's a real tragedy.

Be the change you want to see. For real.

Dig much deeper in YOU. Get out of your wife's sandbox and stay in your own. You have your work to do of your own, and you are so blind by that "cultural/right versus wrong/black & white" habit of yours, that you don't see it, even now.
I don't know what it will take for you to change if the past year hasn't done it. But YOU need to change and you need Tools for that.

So Get them! Not a book to read. A workshop (check out Essential Experience in Philly, the workshop based on Carl Jung and Virginia Satir,) or Imago, and or some individual counseling just for YOU and get it asap!

What are you waiting for? (Your w?? )
.

[25yearsmlc]

SM

this is not to say that I defend your w's behaviors. I don't.

I just cringe at how Unlikely you are to win her back, meaningfully, after all this.

the goal was first to help You, and I feel as if that has not happened.

[sandi2]

SM it concerns me that you take some advice out of context or twist some of the words. I have seen you do that when making references to various posts from other threads. I suppose anyone can misinterpret or misunderstand advice in the light it was given. And it would concern me that the advice you would read that was given to another board member should be applied to your stitch as well. Sometimes it may be advice that most people could apply, but usually we have to tweak it for our own personal stitch. So now you have suddenly cease posting at such a critical time in your R and i think most of us get concerned and want to hear from you.

I hope you took the advice to get C or into a good program to help your M.

[SM34]

I'm back! It has been over a year now and I thought I would come back to chat with all of my friends and continue to get advice from all the good people on here..

So... firstly wife and I are still together and going strong. It has been about 14 months since my sitch took a turn for the better and I owe it all to you guys.

Sorry if wasn't updating and I now see I kind of owed it to you all to keep you in the loop. But honestly the last handful of comments here (read the last responses to my last comment a year ago on this thread) were just too much. I couldn't take it. Every few hours I'd check my thread and it seems the comments were getting more and more negative and each poster was feeding off the negative comments of the one before. I see now that this was not.intentional but that is how I felt at the time.

My wife and I have come a long way but things are stalled a little.right now. She's in IC and her therapist has really been digging in and has uncovered a lot of old baggage that wife has from her childhood. Seems she was carrying it all around with her.

I'm in a much better place now, and more able to be positive and be able to analyze thibgs without the anger and resentment that I was carrying. So I think we are heading in the right direction now.

I ma t start a new thread to fill you all in and get everyone up to speed so I can ask questions and get some direction.

Thank you all again and I look forward to chatting and catching up with all of you!

[SM34]

Stayed up late last night catching up on people's journey. Th ere are lots of people from my rough times who are no longer posting which is a let down. Hope they are all doing well. AS, Crimson, GH31 to name a few.

Still it was good to see people like Starsky and 25 still around! Huge Huge assets! Larger than life characters!

It was really an eye opener to read posts from the newcomers. Oh h ow they sound like I sounded back in the day. OM this and OM dos that...how do I act towards my W? Lol

I learned a lot from the insights my wife has given me since we patched things up. About the mind of a person in crisis, the confusion, the pain, the torment. I'd like to use this to try to bring some sense into other newcomers lives.. however reading the new posts from the vets I am reminded that I have a lot to learn still.

[Sotto]

Welcome back SM34 - really pleased to hear that you and your W are reconciled. I'd love to hear about the insights you gained into the WAS experience. If you're able to post some more on that area, I'd be very interested.

Cheers, Toots :-)